- 5/28/2025
John and Charles discuss the shocking criminal history of Perry Green, one of the most influential leaders in the William Branham “Message” cult. They expose a vast web of financial fraud, exploitation, and spiritual manipulation orchestrated by Green, revealing that he wasn’t merely a supporter of Branham’s teachings—but a scam artist who profited off message believers for decades. Drawing from court records, insider experience, and historical documents, the duo walk listeners through Green’s massive real estate and travel agency schemes, scams on widows and missionaries, and monetization of so-called “holy relics” and unreleased Branham recordings.
But the most chilling revelations come as they recount how Green used his position to push false prophecies and manipulate cult doctrine—including the infamous Marriage and Divorce tape used to justify polygamy in the movement. The hosts show how Green’s downfall only began when he started stealing from other message leaders—setting off a copyright war that ultimately fractured the main sect. With firsthand accounts and irrefutable documentation, the episode paints a damning portrait of corruption hidden behind the facade of religious devotion, concluding that the message was never about faith—but about power and money all along.
Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts:
https://william-branham.org/podcast
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Come Out of Her My People Vol II:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DNFN2XYR
00:00 Introduction
03:51 Perry Green’s Criminal Background and Message Travel Scams
10:30 High-Level Connections and Real Estate Schemes
14:51 Victims Within the Message: Sydney Jackson and Sarah Branham
22:25 Dozens of Lawsuits and the Fallout with Billy Paul
28:11 Breakdown of Message Leadership Alliances
33:00 Religious Facade vs. Criminal Enterprise
37:06 Monetizing Message Literature and Media
46:14 Release of Secret Tapes and Polygamy Controversy
54:00 Sale of Relics and Final Public Fallout
57:12 Setup for the Copyright Wars
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
But the most chilling revelations come as they recount how Green used his position to push false prophecies and manipulate cult doctrine—including the infamous Marriage and Divorce tape used to justify polygamy in the movement. The hosts show how Green’s downfall only began when he started stealing from other message leaders—setting off a copyright war that ultimately fractured the main sect. With firsthand accounts and irrefutable documentation, the episode paints a damning portrait of corruption hidden behind the facade of religious devotion, concluding that the message was never about faith—but about power and money all along.
Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts:
https://william-branham.org/podcast
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Come Out of Her My People Vol II:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DNFN2XYR
00:00 Introduction
03:51 Perry Green’s Criminal Background and Message Travel Scams
10:30 High-Level Connections and Real Estate Schemes
14:51 Victims Within the Message: Sydney Jackson and Sarah Branham
22:25 Dozens of Lawsuits and the Fallout with Billy Paul
28:11 Breakdown of Message Leadership Alliances
33:00 Religious Facade vs. Criminal Enterprise
37:06 Monetizing Message Literature and Media
46:14 Release of Secret Tapes and Polygamy Controversy
54:00 Sale of Relics and Final Public Fallout
57:12 Setup for the Copyright Wars
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
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LearningTranscript
00:00:00You
00:00:31Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research
00:00:35podcast. I'm your host John Collins the author and founder of William Branham
00:00:40historical research at William-Branham.org and with me I have my
00:00:44co-host researcher minister and friend Charles Paisley the founder of
00:00:48Christian Gospel Church.org and the author of Come Out of Her My People.
00:00:53Charles it's good to be back and I almost decided to change the intro song
00:00:58for this one because the I have a family member I don't know if we've
00:01:02ever talked about this I have a family member who was frequently in the cops
00:01:06show I don't know if you remember that show but it started out bad boys bad
00:01:10boys what you want to do what you want to do when they come for you well anyway
00:01:14I have a I have a family member who was in that show frequently so much that he
00:01:21was in the introduction and if I pointed out where in the introduction everybody
00:01:25would figure out who it is but he he was he was a frequent guest and he was
00:01:29chasing down criminals and you know it there was often this theme where a
00:01:34criminal would have an ankle bracelet and they break it off or things like
00:01:38this and you know you watch that show and you think well wow that's that's
00:01:42the other side of life while I was in the message that's the other side of
00:01:46life people in the message would never do this you can't imagine my surprise
00:01:50when I learned that Perry Green for I can't remember how long it was but
00:01:55during the last years of his life he had one of those ankle bracelets because he
00:02:00was a criminal and that's not widely published in the message like nobody in
00:02:05the church openly said hey did you know that brother green was caught and
00:02:10convicted and is now a criminal instead what happened is they kind of disavowed
00:02:14him because I think they were scared that people might find out that the
00:02:18message is critically flawed and there's so much to talk about today like
00:02:24I don't want to start out there because we have so many bigger things but every
00:02:28single aspect of Perry Green that we knew and thought of he when you listen
00:02:34to a recording William Branham frequently missed mentions Perry Green
00:02:37and he's one of the key pillars of the message right and I even have his book
00:02:42Acts of the Prophet and this this book was widely respected in the message and
00:02:49you've got a copy too we'll get into it later but the surprise and shock and awe
00:02:54whenever I learned that my book doesn't match yours Charles oh my goodness John
00:03:02we've got so much to talk about today we're gonna try and fit it in we've only
00:03:06been doing two episodes on each sector of the message but we might have to do
00:03:10more than two here John we'll see what but you you're right John I mean it's
00:03:14crazy and you know you make cultural references like to cops and show but I
00:03:20spent most of my life in a cult and I don't understand a lot of those those
00:03:24cultural references yeah I've never seen that before there's sometimes our
00:03:29listeners may notice that I've kind of blank and I don't know these things but
00:03:33that's why ladies and gentlemen I mean we spent most of our lives in a cult okay
00:03:37and we just do not have awareness of a lot of stuff like this okay but yeah
00:03:41that that's interesting so yeah so Perry Green yeah he's a criminal and he was
00:03:46also one of the most senior leaders of the message but let's let's talk about
00:03:50that why don't we just start out there John I mean let's just that we're
00:03:54leading up to what ends up leaving leading Perry Green to break off from
00:03:59the message is the copyright wars which in my opinion was instigated somewhat in
00:04:05response and retaliation to his criminality okay so the talk about his
00:04:12criminality is probably a great place to start yeah so I mean Perry Green
00:04:15Perry Green was a crook he was a thief he was a robber he scammed people he
00:04:21hoaxed people he had financial schemes I mean and the tune of money that he
00:04:27extorted stole cheated everything would certainly be in the millions of dollars
00:04:32I mean it was a vast sum of money that he that he did this with and you know
00:04:37and we're not guessing like we don't got to guess these things I mean we have the
00:04:40documentation of the court cases you know and it was all it was fairly big
00:04:45news back in the day when a lot of this stuff was was going on but let's just
00:04:50start talking about there so Perry Green in our in our last our last episode we
00:04:55were talking through some of his business enterprises and among his many
00:05:00business enterprises John was a travel agency and the travel agency that he set
00:05:07up is that's the good place to start that'll lead us right into a lot of the
00:05:11criminal stuff John so the the travel agency that he started was you know
00:05:18today people probably have no idea really what the old travel agencies are
00:05:22like because today you can get on the internet right you can go to Expedia you
00:05:26can book your own hotel you can book your own plane ticket book your own car
00:05:29you can book your own vacations well you know go back in time there wasn't the
00:05:35internet and if you wanted to book travel you had to use a travel agent so
00:05:40you'd call up a travel agent or travel agency and they would book your hotel
00:05:44and they would book your car and they would book your your your plane ticket
00:05:48and all the stuff you need to travel right you'd work with the travel agency
00:05:51and this is how travel was done if you think for the majority of message
00:05:55history this is how travel was done in the 60s in the 70s in the 80s don't even
00:06:00up through the 90s you know you still booked your travel through a travel
00:06:03agency it's really only the early 2000s where it becomes common for people to go
00:06:08on the internet and book their own travel so anyways Perry Green sets up
00:06:12among his multiple businesses he has a travel agency now think about the
00:06:17message ladies and gentlemen the message is big for it's what international
00:06:24conventions where people come from all over the world and gather for
00:06:27conventions okay it is big for sending all of its missionaries around the world
00:06:32right who is the travel agency being used to book all of the international
00:06:40and travels and everything ladies just think about this mr. Perry Green's
00:06:44travel agency okay so he is he's there's so many businesses he set up that are
00:06:50just setting their their profiting off of the message okay if you if you were
00:06:55in the 60s the 70s the 80s John and you wanted to travel to the international
00:06:59conventions well you call up travel Perry Green's travel agency and you book
00:07:03your travel right this is how it was across the whole lot of the message okay
00:07:07and so he set up and positioned to to to to monetize the message on so many
00:07:17levels right in our last one we talked about how the people coming into the
00:07:20United States from overseas he's employing them a lot in his businesses
00:07:25cheap labor in his construction firms and different things well he's also
00:07:28monetizing all of the message travel there's all kinds of stuff he's
00:07:32monetized John and and here let me add this in too because Perry Green would
00:07:37traveled a lot to all of the you know to all the different sites and and he would
00:07:42give his missionary sermons and talk about all how wonderful William Branham
00:07:46was in all this you you know we see that in the message as him talking about
00:07:51all the blessed holy things of William Branham and the Prophet right but it's
00:07:55also a sales pitch because Perry Green also had through his travel agency all
00:08:01of these places where you could come to or the holy sites of the message John
00:08:04you know this Terry Green had this whole travel thing set up where you can buy a
00:08:09travel package John and you can visit blessed Jerusalem or holy Tucson and you
00:08:15too can see finger rock John you too can see pulpit rock you too can walk on
00:08:21the streets where the Prophet walked you can see the bridge where the 16 men fell
00:08:25to their death you can see the sky where the face of Jesus himself appeared you
00:08:30know and Perry Green is selling these tours to the message people through his
00:08:33travel agency okay and so when he is visiting all these places given his
00:08:38pitches John he is personally profiting you know at every stage of this thing
00:08:45on every level for decades for decades you know it's just it's really
00:08:50unbelievable it another cultural reference which you probably won't get
00:08:54but if you've ever seen the movie Oh Brother Where Art Thou Perry Green is
00:08:59the Bible salesman that is the criminal that attacks everybody man it's just
00:09:03when you look at all these enterprises and just take a step back think about
00:09:08everybody that you knew who were the elite in the message and think about
00:09:12their travel agencies their real estate agencies and then all of the networks of
00:09:19businesses that collaborated with those and what you have is this pyramid scheme
00:09:24that is unbelievable unbelievable and I'll never forget my uncle who I've
00:09:32mentioned him a few times casually I can't say too much because there's
00:09:36actually a little bit of danger in going too far with this but my uncle had his
00:09:41funeral and my uncle was well known for and this is public I can say this he was
00:09:48well known for racketeering that was in the news and he had all kinds of real
00:09:52estate businesses at his funeral Billy Paul and Joe Branham were bragging and
00:09:57bragging on my uncle because my uncle was able to fly them into Mexico without
00:10:02alerting the United States or Mexican government authorities that they were
00:10:07going to cross the United States border think of that man number one else was on
00:10:12the plane was on the plane but why did they why were they so open with it they
00:10:17were bragging about things that that's an international crime that they're
00:10:21talking about doing and they it wasn't recorded unfortunately but they're
00:10:25bragging about this and you know I now I have witnesses that were there who can
00:10:29back that up but things like that were happening and going on well with Perry
00:10:33Green he was in all of that he had connections to the real estate business
00:10:39I'm certain he was probably working with my uncle through various agencies when I
00:10:44look at my uncle was massive massive lawsuits that I can't get into that
00:10:51either but compare those to what has been identified in Perry Green's legal
00:10:56documents there had to have been some sort of collaboration and again you go
00:11:02back to the he was he was a he was a convicted felon for theft but I one of
00:11:09the people when I published his Perry Green's and I'll throw it up on the
00:11:13screen if you're watching instead of listening when I discovered Perry Green's
00:11:18ankle bracelet and the you know his conviction one of the people from
00:11:24Arizona pointed out to me they said oh my gosh John he was represented by
00:11:29Robert J hooker this is the guy that represented all of the organized crime
00:11:35whenever whenever you wanted to get out of something you were either cutting a
00:11:40deal with the government or something else shady was going on you went to
00:11:43Robert hooker apparently I wasn't there I don't know I can only take their word
00:11:47for this but I did after they said this I looked through some old newspapers and
00:11:52I'm scratching my head thinking you know this doesn't sound right why would Perry
00:11:57Green choose a public defender instead of hire his own attorney if he's being
00:12:02convicted of this massive that this is a serious crime he was stealing government
00:12:07property why would he not get his own attorney why would you say okay I'll
00:12:10just choose the public defender I'm not gonna get my own attorney I'm going to
00:12:15trust the city and the state of Arizona to represent me and protect me why would
00:12:20you do this and I kind of agree with the person who gave me the information
00:12:25there's more here than meets the eye there is you know how we've pointed out
00:12:30that there's two William Branham's right there's William Branham who's buried
00:12:35underneath the pyramid and then there's William Branham his son who went by the
00:12:38name Billy Paul well did you know John there's two Perry Greens there are two
00:12:42Perry Greens okay there are two different Perry Greens all right and the Perry
00:12:49Green that William Branham tends to mention on tape is not the Perry Green
00:12:53pastor of the Tucson Tabernacle the Perry Green that William Branham tends
00:12:57to most often reference in the Tucson Tabernacle was the man from Beaumont
00:13:01Texas who was Perry Green senior Perry Green's father they were both named
00:13:05Perry Green and so a lot of people I think confuse the pair too when they
00:13:10listen on tape because it's not always clear which one William Branham is
00:13:13talking about Perry Green senior who is another wealthy man a full gospel
00:13:18businessman he was financially involved with William Branham from fairly early
00:13:24on and doing stuff but Perry Green who became the pastor of the Tucson
00:13:28Tabernacle he joined the message in 1964 and you know did all this he's the one
00:13:34we're specifically talking about ladies and gentlemen Perry Green the second one
00:13:38who was the you know the the pastor of the Tucson Tabernacle so I say that
00:13:42there's two just to make sure I bring that to everyone's attention because
00:13:45you're gonna get pretty confused if you don't know that there's two and you
00:13:49start looking into Perry Green especially William Bram's comments about
00:13:53him okay so and again it's it's weird isn't it and and isn't it weird that
00:13:59most people probably don't even know that's that know that right why is it
00:14:03why do you think that people obfuscate those facts right why why do they hide
00:14:08that sort of stuff I'll tell you why Perry Green the pastor of the Tucson
00:14:11Tabernacle it is because he was pretending that William Branham was
00:14:13talking about him on tape all of those years in order to obfuscate his
00:14:17importance in the message John the man was a scam artist I'm telling you so
00:14:23Perry Green he was he was getting rich you know scamming people all along John
00:14:29and he really was doing this from the very beginning and like I said he came
00:14:34into the inner circle of William Branham more or less elbowed his way in offended
00:14:38lots of people really he he was like a bull in a china shop in the early
00:14:45message community he caused so many schisms so many divisions so many
00:14:49problems and he was doing his criminal stuff pretty well from the very
00:14:54beginning he would let's let's give a couple very prominent well-known examples
00:15:00of the sort of thing Perry Green was doing Perry Green would convince people
00:15:06to make investments into one of his many businesses okay and it was usually large
00:15:13sums of money and two very I think reasonably well documented cases that we
00:15:19can point at is one of them would be the case of Sidney Jackson okay Sidney
00:15:23Jackson who was Sidney Jackson he was the the most senior message missionary
00:15:29working in Africa he actually had a little seminary and he was kind of the
00:15:32head of the most important African mission network you know coming after
00:15:37William Branham's death and he actually died Sidney Jackson died in I want to
00:15:41say 1984 somewhere in the mid 1980s I have the exact date in my book you know
00:15:47if I could look it up but anyways he died somewhere in the mid 1980s John and
00:15:53somewhere along the line Perry Green had convinced Sidney Jackson give me your
00:15:58life savings I'll invest it in this travel I'll invest in my travel agency
00:16:02you're all invested in one of my businesses you know and you'll be taken
00:16:06care of well that's what happens and Sidney Jackson died well one of Sidney
00:16:11Jackson's widows he had at least one John comes back to Perry Green after he
00:16:16dies said may I please have the money now I need to you know live out my
00:16:21husband's gone you have our life savings mr. green may I please have them back
00:16:25Perry Green says I'm sorry the investment failed you have no money and
00:16:30he robbed blind Sidney Jackson's family the head missionary okay and this
00:16:37happened right as the stuff with Ewald Frank was all exploding to high heaven
00:16:43well that event pushed that whole missionary faction into the arms of
00:16:49Ewald Frank John and set the main set back in Africa in the 80s pretty badly
00:16:55right and so that's those the sort of thing that he's doing okay another
00:17:01example and probably the most well-known example of all is Sarah Branham story
00:17:06right so Sarah Branham very similarly when Sarah Branham's mother Mita Branham
00:17:10died so William Brown's widow died she left Sarah Branham an inheritance of
00:17:16some fifty some thousand dollars and it was a similar amount that had been left
00:17:20with the Sidney Jackson's widow and in today's money you know we're talking
00:17:23close to a million bucks you know just in these two cases and so Sarah he does
00:17:30the same thing he says Sarah you're gonna go be a missionary in Guatemala
00:17:34with your husband hey leave your inheritance here with me all invested in
00:17:38the travel agency all invested in my other businesses and and you can just go
00:17:41be a missionary and have regular income out of your investment and so Sarah
00:17:45Branham gives Perry Green something in the neighborhood of fifty to sixty
00:17:49thousand dollars back then again which you know vast much much larger amount
00:17:54today for inflation and so she does and of course we all know Sarah's story
00:18:00we'll probably do a more close to a full episode somewhere down the road Sarah
00:18:03ends up on the outs with her brothers they end up you know dirt poor well you
00:18:09know can't hardly afford food it gets that bad for Sarah and she comes back to
00:18:13Perry Green and says Perry Green can you please give me my inheritance back I
00:18:17need to I need to feed my kids right and Perry Green tell Sarah I'm sorry
00:18:22your investment has failed and there's no money to give back to you and he
00:18:26robbed her blind to John and and you know of course Sarah made a big stink
00:18:31out of it and did you know all the lawsuits but this is the sort of thing
00:18:35Perry Green was doing for decades right and well I'll go through and I'll
00:18:40actually read out here before we're done some of the different lawsuits Perry
00:18:43Green was involved in but Perry Green was Perry Green was a criminal thief
00:18:47taking investments into his business telling the people the investment failed
00:18:51and keeping all their money and he was doing it to widows he was doing it to
00:18:56to people like Sarah who's too poor to even filled her children right it's it's
00:19:01horrendous stuff that Perry Green was doing and the and the trail of victims
00:19:06is vast and long and it's almost entirely people in the message community
00:19:09that he was doing that to and you think about this he would do it to Sidney
00:19:12Jackson and he would do it to Sarah Branham there is nobody he would not do
00:19:17it to in the message and as we'll find out he finally did it to the wrong
00:19:20person here before we're done with this I will tell you who was and for you who
00:19:25are researching the message and are largely unfamiliar with everything we're
00:19:29talking about Perry Green was significant there there was a period of
00:19:34time up until what was it October November of last year where everyone in
00:19:39the message was proclaiming that the end of the world is very very very near
00:19:43because we have a timeline Perry Green helped establish the timeline and it's
00:19:47it's in this book acts of the acts of the Prophet by Perry Green but the the
00:19:53way the story goes is that William Branham had a prophecy that sharks would
00:19:57be swimming where his son Billy Paul was before Billy Paul was an old man now at
00:20:03the time that William Branham would have allegedly said this we I don't know if
00:20:07he said it or not but if he did if Perry Green was right the I went back and
00:20:13looked at some statistics on that Perry Green to be an old man in those years
00:20:18the age was like 55 in fact William Branham said that he was an old man on
00:20:24recording so we we can kind of establish the timeline of when is an old man well
00:20:30during the 80s Billy Paul was going from church to church on this big revival
00:20:35circuit the end of the world is near we're we're so close because not too
00:20:40much longer brothers and sisters I'm gonna be an old man I'm not an old man
00:20:44yet and he was over the hill when he said this stuff man well Perry Green is
00:20:49the one who's largely responsible for this so take a step back and think about
00:20:54everything that we're going to get into in this podcast you have a man who's
00:20:58literally is a scam artist you can go through the government records you can
00:21:02read the things that we read if you can go to their internet websites where you
00:21:07can pull up his criminal record or if you're local to Arizona you can go into
00:21:11the court systems you can request these documents this man was a criminal he was
00:21:15a scam artist he was a convict he was a thief he was many many things and what
00:21:21happens in the message that's just really ironic Charles these pillars of
00:21:26the message that introduced new prophecies this this was a new prophecy
00:21:31that's in this book that you can only find it in this book they introduce
00:21:34these new prophecies and they're well respected but you find that so many of
00:21:39them are shady characters and when they get disavowed what do you do with this
00:21:44in many many cases the scam artist who's scamming people introduces something new
00:21:49to the message he gets disavowed but everything that he said stands until it
00:21:56has been proven false and then when it's proven false oh well that guy was just a
00:22:00scam artist it's a pretty simple pattern of logic if they were lying
00:22:07about financial stuff in order to get money and they were lying about business
00:22:12investments and they were lying about this and lying about that and lying
00:22:14about the other could it be they were lying about William Branham to come on I
00:22:20mean it's just in the answer in the end of the day is yes ladies and gentlemen
00:22:24they were some of them were absolutely lying to us about William Branham let me
00:22:28start to go through just a list of cases John I'm not gonna like summarize
00:22:32all these but what maybe we can do is we can put a list up for everybody as we as
00:22:35I just list all these out but these are lawsuits that Sarah Perry Green was
00:22:39involved in and these specific ones I'm looking at are ones that Sarah Branham
00:22:43personally made us all aware of back at the back in the late 80s okay and so
00:22:48these are from this list is from just court cases in Pima County Arizona
00:22:54involving Perry Green and and what I'll point out to you is most of these cases
00:22:59I should say all of them are involving either message people as the victims or
00:23:06message people's business enterprises as the victims this is entirely message on
00:23:11message lawsuits almost entirely here through here John that he's bringing out
00:23:15and but so I'll give the first one Victor Emanuel versus Perry Green July
00:23:1926 1976 Mario Valenzuela versus Perry Green February 26 1979 Perry Green
00:23:29versus James Stewart July 11 1979 Harry Green versus Antoine Whitham February
00:23:4018 1981 West Co Inc versus Perry Green August 10 1984 here's one that people
00:23:50are gonna maybe be surprised at Wayne Evans versus Perry Green August 31 1984
00:23:56there's you're gonna see a couple like these and these are the places where
00:23:59Perry Green started to step on the wrong people's toes Wayne Evans versus Perry
00:24:05Green August 31 1984 and I'll point out to you Wayne Evans is the father of the
00:24:09current pastor of the Doosan Tabernacle John just for our listeners reference
00:24:15Bon Voyage Travel Incorporated versus Perry Green that one is October 15 1984
00:24:26the Tanner companies versus Perry Green November 26 1984
00:24:33Dest Paving versus Perry Green December 4th 1984 Territorial Bank versus Perry
00:24:40Green March 7th 1985 Hatco Inc versus Perry Green July 13th 1985 Baum Adamson
00:24:50versus Perry Green June 20th 1985 Shamrock Contracting versus Perry Green
00:24:58September 11th 1985 this is how many in just one year okay Abel Dole versus
00:25:04Perry Green January 29th 1986 Interstate Bank versus Perry Green June 26 1986
00:25:13Joseph Evans versus Perry Green March 19th 1987 and there's another familiar
00:25:20message name right that people probably glom on to Frank Grimes versus Perry
00:25:26Green April 30th 1987 Tanner Companies versus Green again June 5th 1987 Presidio
00:25:33Properties versus Perry Green September 2nd 1987 and I mean we can just keep
00:25:39going John I mean there is there's literally a hundred pages of these and
00:25:43this is just the Pima County Arizona ones and if you again I'm not gonna
00:25:49detail them all out ladies do you're welcome to look into these you adjust
00:25:53for inflation there is a couple million dollars just in those cases right there
00:25:56John okay and it's all and I'll just summarize what they roughly are Perry
00:26:01Green wrote me a check for $10,000 and it was a bad check it's like those kind
00:26:05of cases I gave Perry Green a $50,000 loan and he never gave me my money back
00:26:09it's cases like that John every single one of them is something like that and
00:26:13his victims are almost exclusively the message community the message community
00:26:19and at a certain point you know this stuff gets to such a level that it
00:26:27starts to break down Billy it affects Billy Paul's relationship with Perry
00:26:31Green that's really what's going on here so so so the the main sect of the
00:26:36message was held together I want to say John by an alliance between the Tucson
00:26:40Tabernacle and the Branham Tabernacle right and Perry Green or and rather and
00:26:44and and Billy Paul's relationship with Perry Green because Billy Paul controlled
00:26:48all the central institutions right and so you've got Billy Paul with the
00:26:51central institutions the Branham Tabernacle and Tucson Tabernacle is
00:26:55basically the pillar that hold the main sect together for its first decades and
00:27:00slowly but surely Perry Green robs and cheats and steals from so many people
00:27:06that Billy Paul can't just ignore it anymore okay and in the and I think John
00:27:13it is his lawsuits and criminal activity with the Evans family
00:27:17specifically that leads to the deterioration and downfall of Perry
00:27:24Green's relationship with the main sect of the message and this is my take this
00:27:29is my opinion okay other people might have different opinions and different
00:27:31ways to interpret these things but that is my opinion and that is my take and as
00:27:36as that happens John you know Billy Paul as you come into the 90s slowly starts
00:27:42to bring mr. Joseph Branham his younger brother into into power okay that starts
00:27:47in the early 90s and whereas Billy Paul and Perry Green had kind of a
00:27:52long-standing at least an alliance of convenience right whether or not they
00:27:58necessarily liked each other an alliance of convenience in order to keep control
00:28:02that all goes out the window as with the rise of Joseph we'll do some full
00:28:07episodes you know maybe more on some of this down the road but as that happens
00:28:11John that sets up the copyright wars and before we talk about the copyright
00:28:17wars we're gonna talk about what the copyright wars were actually over but
00:28:21that it's it's part of the main sex unhappiness with Perry Green that starts
00:28:28the copyright wars Perry Green was the canary in the coal mine on the copyright
00:28:32wars and they started coming after the main sex started coming after Perry
00:28:35Green roughly 1989 and then into the early 90s and it cascaded into Perry
00:28:41Green pulling in all kinds of people on his side changing sides building a
00:28:46faction and basically causing a massive schism across the main sect of the
00:28:50message into the late 90s and early 2000s and so yeah crazy stuff John
00:28:58absolutely crazy stuff and all of these lawsuits I mean we didn't make all this
00:29:01stuff up right it's in the court records you can just go look for yourself if you
00:29:05want and that timeline man I'm going through my head trying to remember when
00:29:09exactly it happened my grandfather was insanely rich I don't know if we've
00:29:14talked about that I guess we have but my grandfather the head pastor of the
00:29:18Branham Tabernacle who drove an old Oldsmobile and pretended to not have you
00:29:24know much money at all so give me your ties brother he was filthy wealthy
00:29:29looking at the timeline looking at the criminal aspects of Perry Green and also
00:29:35many of the other people who were in positions of power we've some of its
00:29:42documented on my website some of it I can't yet I have to hold back but when
00:29:47you look at this and you see the shift of power you have to wonder what's going
00:29:51on behind the scenes because if you put it into a balanced scale here's the
00:29:56religion on this one side of the scale here's all of the filth and dirt and
00:30:02scandals and corruption and criminal all of this stuff in the balance scale it
00:30:09heavily outweighs the religious part and so you have to suddenly you're faced
00:30:14with the question was this really about religion or was this whole thing about
00:30:19something else you know John when you actually if you go back and you put the
00:30:23time pieces together and you look at all of Perry Green's lawsuits kind of line
00:30:27them out chronologically Perry Green was doing this all along he was doing this
00:30:31all along and the other leaders of the message were okay with it all along
00:30:35right what what changed in the 1980s that suddenly made it not okay for Perry
00:30:42Green to do this anymore what what changed he started doing it to them he
00:30:47started doing it to them that's the only thing that changed right that's it
00:30:52that's it he was doing this all along and that again goes to show the absolute
00:30:56corrupt wickedness of message leaders right it's fine for Perry Green to rob
00:31:01the rest of you blind so long as he's not doing it to us cuz hey we're
00:31:04probably doing the same thing and they are probably you know what I mean it's
00:31:07okay for him to rob you but don't you dare rob us Perry Green it's when he
00:31:11started robbing them that's what he finally went too far is it that I mean
00:31:18what is it how awful is that I mean just how absolutely awful is it's really
00:31:23unbelievable Charles and you know yeah I'm gonna give you a task after you
00:31:27watched after you finish this podcast with me I want you to go watch Oh
00:31:31brother whore art thou great great movie regardless of whether you're in a cult
00:31:35and when you see John Goodman the Bible salesman and he's I won't give you the
00:31:40surprise what he does but it's a great movie go watch it but all the laughter
00:31:44joking aside it's really it angers me because these are victims of a cult
00:31:50they've already been victimized they've already been robbed blind they they
00:31:56preach this tithing of 10% and Perry Green sect was more strict as was my
00:32:02grandfather's I'm I'm fairly certain that his church was the same way but
00:32:06they really pushed that you be taxed on your you be tithed I said tax you be
00:32:12tithed on your pre-tax dollars so when you got your check and you saw this big
00:32:18number at the top that's what you paid your tithe on the little smaller amount
00:32:22that's you know some people lose 15 to 35 percent whatever it is that part is
00:32:28that's your money but you're gonna be paying tax on the larger amount so that
00:32:31the pastor can get more money and we've mentioned this before every 10th person
00:32:37in the crowd in the audience congregation every 10th person is an
00:32:41entire salary so some of these churches with hundreds of people man they're
00:32:45making a killing off the money these people have already been robbed blind
00:32:49and now you've got scam artists who recognize that hey I can drain them dry
00:32:55with tithes I wonder what other ways can I drain these people dry have you ever
00:33:00wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern
00:33:04Pentecostal ism transition through the latter rain charismatic and other fringe
00:33:09movements into the New Apostolic Reformation you can learn this and more
00:33:14on William Branham historical research's website William dash Branham
00:33:19org on the books page of the website you can find the compiled research of John
00:33:24Collins Charles Paisley Stephen Montgomery John McKinnon and others with
00:33:29links to the paper audio and digital versions of each book you can also find
00:33:35resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those
00:33:39movements if you want to contribute to the cause you can support the podcast by
00:33:44clicking the contribute button at the top and as always be sure to LIKE and
00:33:49subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching on
00:33:53behalf of William Branham historical research we want to thank you for your
00:33:57support it is important to acknowledge the human toll here John because I'm
00:34:02aware of people driven to suicide you know by this stuff with Perry Green Perry
00:34:05Green drove a number of people to suicide with this sort of stuff and and
00:34:09and of course like the lawsuits and stuff I read these are the people who
00:34:13were actually in a position to do something about it right you know the
00:34:16average person that Perry Green robbed was in not a position to do anything but
00:34:21just be robbed and and go along with it because to resist meant losing your wife
00:34:27or your husband you're losing your children losing your home losing your
00:34:31job being kicked out of the church and going to hell right I mean that in their
00:34:36mind that is ultimately the decision that a lot of people had had to make in
00:34:40order to confront Perry Green and and the average person that he did this to
00:34:45that's not a risk they're gonna want to take right do I want to confront Perry
00:34:50Green to get my money back or do I want to go to hell yeah it's it's that is the
00:34:54decision in this mindset of the cult that a lot of the people are faced with
00:35:00you know when they're scammed in this way and for a lot of them they go along
00:35:04with it right they just they just okay I've lost everything the Lord giveth the
00:35:10Lord taketh away here you go you know I mean it that that's how a whole lot of
00:35:15people you know would take this thing but it's only when he starts stepping on
00:35:19the toes of senior people in the message right who are also wealthy who are also
00:35:24that is when the the fight back finally comes and then it's not okay and it's
00:35:30it's sad right cuz cuz where where were they standing up where was Billy Paul
00:35:34standing up for the little guys getting robbed he wasn't they didn't care where
00:35:38where was Ed Biscoll standing up for the little guys Perry Green was robbing
00:35:42blind nowhere couldn't be found you know you go down the list Tim Pruitt Donnie
00:35:47Reagan all the guys today where were they when Perry Green was robbing the
00:35:52people blind they had nothing to say about it right and they still have
00:35:56nothing to say about it honestly you know and so the message just they cover
00:36:00all this stuff up no this never happened and you're making it all up nothing to
00:36:04see here ladies gentlemen move along move along move along you know but his
00:36:09is the truth I mean Perry Green robbed all kinds of people blind a number of
00:36:12them killed themselves right and goodness gracious Sarah Branham
00:36:16disappeared where Sarah Branham at ladies and gentlemen there's a great
00:36:18question right there's one of his victims right there so moving on John
00:36:23let's let's move on from the financial crimes okay I can get a little a tad hot
00:36:29under the collar with some of that stuff it's just awful it's awful the lives
00:36:33that have been outright destroyed by this stuff and Perry Green I mean it's
00:36:37not limited to the main sect where Perry Green robbed all the Perry Green caused
00:36:40schisms through my sect John he caused problems like this all over the world in
00:36:45the message I mean it is and the number of people he impacted is certainly in
00:36:50the tens of thousands if not over a hundred thousand people you know with
00:36:54with his ways you know it's just unfathomable you know the scale of what
00:36:59Perry Green did let's talk about the other way that Perry Green monetized the
00:37:05message which ultimately led into the copyright wars okay Perry Green
00:37:09monetized the message also through control of message literature and
00:37:16Branham memorabilia that's how I describe it
00:37:19Branham memorabilia you know revival memorabilia holy relics you know of the
00:37:24message so he's he's monetizing that too early on John so early on let's talk
00:37:32about the the multimedia early on Perry Green has he's the full keys a full
00:37:37gospel businessman Perry Green is the man who gets deep calls the deep out of
00:37:41the full gospel businessman archives he's the man who gets 20th century
00:37:45profit out of the full businessman archives okay and through all the years
00:37:50when people are getting deep called the deep 20th century profit that's all
00:37:54through the Perry Green Tucson Tabernacle channel John that's not
00:37:58through really although it could be resold elsewhere it's not necessarily
00:38:02through the voice of God spoken word channel Perry Green and Tucson
00:38:05Tabernacle controlled a fair bit of the we'll call it the intellectual property
00:38:11or the memorabilia of the message they controlled a fair bit of that and the
00:38:16end Perry Green was able to monetize that okay which is also I think why they
00:38:23tried to take over his church after he died so they could transfer all the
00:38:25ownership of that memorabilia into the central institutions okay but we'll talk
00:38:29about that later that would be my opinion you know is why they went to all
00:38:33the effort to take over his church after he died okay anyways except
00:38:37stepping back out so he's monetizing all this John and also early on he's working
00:38:44with Roy Borders the man who took over spoken word publications after Banks
00:38:48Woods resignation he's working with David Mammalus and they're they're doing
00:38:53a lot of the earth he's sponsoring a lot of the early literature work of spoken
00:38:57word publications okay and and his very first book of all John the very first
00:39:03thing that Perry Green sponsored on his own was this book right here Acts of the
00:39:07Prophet you've got a copy there so this is the second edition of this book you
00:39:13have in your possession if you want to hold it up you have the third edition of
00:39:17this book and this here is the fourth edition of this book and there is a
00:39:23fifth edition available electronic format which I don't have in in paper
00:39:28but I have in the electronic so there are at least five editions of this book
00:39:32that I am aware of John there may be more but there's at least five editions
00:39:36of this book but anyways I think it's when Perry Green first did the first
00:39:40book here that he realized the lucrative nature of message literature
00:39:45publication I want to explain how message literature publication is
00:39:48lucrative so that our listeners can can understand how how it's monetized so
00:39:54Perry Green developed a missionary pitch a missionary sermon that he
00:40:01delivered whenever he'd do his mission trips and he did lots and lots and like
00:40:05he did thousands probably of mission trips probably probably 2,000 mission
00:40:09trips in his life to convert people to the message or to talk about the message
00:40:13and in those pitches he would give a sermon and there's like a condensed
00:40:19version that would be two hours and there's like an extended version that
00:40:23six hours right and what this is John this is the printed version of Perry
00:40:32Green's missionary sermon that he gave from the very earliest days of of him
00:40:36being in the message that's what this is the people at people from Leo Mercer's
00:40:42commune John in Prescott Arizona typed up his yes the torture molestation
00:40:48commune typed up his missionary sermon and published the first edition of this
00:40:53book for him okay and hence why you know the first edition is pretty hard to find
00:40:58it's kind of a little bit rare but Perry Green then took I believe he discovered
00:41:04the lucrative nature of it he ended up getting the first edition and then they
00:41:07redid it through his church and he controlled publication from the second
00:41:11edition okay and so what this is and what what is so wonderful about having
00:41:17all five of these editions John is you can detect how Perry Green changed the
00:41:23story over the years you can go back to the first edition and you can see how he
00:41:28was given the missionary sermon in the 60s you can go to the second edition you
00:41:33can get you know up through the 70s you go to the third edition you find it up
00:41:37the 80s you go to the for you get the 90s you can go all the way today and you
00:41:41can see how the missionary how the pitch to sell Branham changed in the main
00:41:46sect in different points that changed and we'll all point out a few of those
00:41:49things to you but anyways as he did that he's he I think he learned how to
00:41:53monetize this stuff and for our listeners the way you make money on
00:41:59message literature John is not through selling the literature you don't make
00:42:04you don't you sell it for hardly nothing you're almost given the message
00:42:07literature what you don't make money selling this literature how do you make
00:42:11money you make money by collecting donations because the poor people in
00:42:15Africa John need this blessed book on the Prophet there are people in India
00:42:21John they must hear the message and be saved please donate money to the
00:42:27printing operations and we are going to take this blessed message to the ends of
00:42:32the earth that is how the money is made and you go around and they collect the
00:42:36money from the people to cover all the printing operations okay and yeah and
00:42:40they go give this stuff away cheap they give the you know all the literature
00:42:44away for cheap but what nobody notices is there's 25 people in the back room
00:42:48collecting full-time salaries to create all of this for 50 years in a row well
00:42:53that's where the money is okay it's the donations coming in to cover all the
00:42:57printing operations that's where the money is and Perry Green set up his own
00:43:01printing operation and is doing his own thing and collecting money through that
00:43:07not through the sale of the literature necessarily but the donations into the
00:43:11enterprise covers the salaries and it runs as a business a nonprofit business
00:43:16but it does pay salaries to the people working in the enterprise that's how
00:43:22message literature and message media is monetized and for you conspiracy
00:43:28theorists out there who may or may not have caught my hint about what was
00:43:33happening in the organized crime scene in Arizona now think about this so you
00:43:40have you have organized crime which is being very quickly eradicated in this
00:43:46time period it was it was about the you know 70s or such look what's happening
00:43:51in religion after this look at the unbelievable amount of money that's
00:43:57flowing through religion quite frankly it's more than was flowing through the
00:44:01organized crime in some cases and yet at the same time it's safer you move this
00:44:07direction you create this pyramid scheme you scam all these people and
00:44:11unless you like Perry Green got caught and it was criminal but in most cases
00:44:15it's not because you can set all of this up legally and you can rob the people
00:44:20blind legally and here's the interesting part if I mean if I I'm not but if I
00:44:26were to have been somebody who's a criminal mind who's thinking oh my gosh
00:44:31look at all the money I can make it this you can do it safely and the people were
00:44:36willingly give you some money it'd be like organized crime say they went into
00:44:41a bank and said hey we're gonna rob this oh you don't have to rob us we're just
00:44:45going to give you everything that's in the vault that's what's happening here
00:44:49and when you take a step back and you think this was all done in the name of
00:44:53religion but this was not religion what we're seeing here this was not religion
00:44:58yep and you know the way a lot of them work you know this you can think of it
00:45:04as a mission enterprise that they set up to publish literature and distribute
00:45:09it usually it's their friends and family you don't run the whole thing and are
00:45:14all getting rich out of it right because they're all just taking big salaries out
00:45:16of it yeah and you know they print the books for a buck fifty apiece or
00:45:20whatever right and they're collecting vast sums of money from people to
00:45:25sponsor the creation all the literature and that's where all the money comes and
00:45:28Perry Green is a full gospel businessman can also go around to the full gospel
00:45:32businessman enterprise hey finance our mission efforts full gospel businessman
00:45:36guys give me you know let's have some money into this and that's what's
00:45:39happening Perry Green is fundraising all over the place he's pouring all this
00:45:42money into it and he's taking a cut out of all of it you know for his own you
00:45:48know it's a lot of work managing all this big enterprise right he needs a cut
00:45:52obviously right sure right I mean that's that's just how it works yeah and so
00:45:57Perry Green is is monetizing all of this now another thing I want to talk about
00:46:02John is is Perry Green had another bit of unique message impact and I want to
00:46:14talk specifically about the secret recordings of William Branham so there
00:46:21were a number of sermons that William Branham preached where and you can
00:46:25listen to him in the tapes marriage and divorce is one of these sermons he'll
00:46:28get to it and he'll say now this is just for my little church here don't
00:46:31let this tape out you know keep this tape private don't send this out keep
00:46:36all this private this is not for the whole everybody this is just for a
00:46:39special case or something right there's a number of tapes like that I'm sure
00:46:42you're aware of them to John you just did it's on the tape when you listen to
00:46:45him okay how did those tapes get out to the broader world it's a good question
00:46:51isn't it again mr. Perry Green okay so you've got a crazed following right who
00:46:57are desperate for the words of the Prophet and you have in your possession
00:47:02some of the secret tapes those will fetch a pretty good price won't they if
00:47:06the cult thinks the rapturing faith could be on those tapes all right Perry
00:47:11Green monetize the secret tapes too okay and and marriage and divorce is is
00:47:17probably the most I will say the most infamous most reckless dangerous one
00:47:24that Perry Green released the reason that the message community today has the
00:47:28marriage and divorce sermon is because Perry Green released it to the public
00:47:33John that's the sermon where I mean it is it is the most horrendous of all
00:47:38horrendous message sermons right I mean it's the one where he says women were
00:47:42created by the devil to deceive men and it's the sermon that seemingly endorses
00:47:48polygamy okay now how did it come to be that that's just that Perry Green
00:47:54released the marriage and divorce taped everything well I've mentioned before a
00:47:58man named JT Parnell you'll find JT Parnell mentioned on William Branham's
00:48:02tapes JT Parnell was a polygamist he had an entire harem John of women and he
00:48:08took him in just about everywhere he went I mean it was in it it's very
00:48:12obvious he was a polygamist to most of the people around him because he had a
00:48:16harem of women okay and he set up after William Branham died what is to my
00:48:21knowledge the the oldest polygamist sect of the message it started it really
00:48:25started in 1965 it started before William Branham died and he was from
00:48:30Kentucky and there's a number of other churches maybe we'll do a full episode
00:48:34on JT Parnell somewhere down the road but there was a number of churches of
00:48:38his fellowship of persuasion that also adopted polygamy in Appalachia in the
00:48:43South North Carolina South Carolina Mississippi and then there's some other
00:48:48polygamist churches which I'm not sure are affiliated with him so I won't
00:48:51mention them here but there was a number of polygamist churches all of his
00:48:54persuasion and as you come into I want to say it was the early to mid 70s John
00:49:01everybody starts noticing hey wait a minute JT Parnell's a polygamist and
00:49:07and they're like man you can't be doing that and he gets thrown out he gets
00:49:10excommunicated from my sex John he gets more or less excommunicated from the
00:49:15Branham Tabernacle and the Branham Tabernacle does it kind of publicly like
00:49:18your grandpa's like JT Parnell is not allowed here no more he's a polygamist
00:49:22so there's there is some pushback from sects of the message that there's a
00:49:30pull you know polygamy going on and ladies you know there are still
00:49:33polygamists in the Jeffersonville message community to this day you know
00:49:36and in other parts of the message community this is not something that has
00:49:39died it is still around but anyways JT Parnell starts getting all this pushback
00:49:46and of course you know he's saying now wait a minute ladies and gentlemen I was
00:49:49there when the Prophet said one buck and many does and the people are like what
00:49:54are you talking about JT Parnell you're you're making all this up this isn't
00:49:57true the Prophet never said we could have polygamy and he's yes he did but he
00:50:03don't have the tape John who does he go to for the tape Perry Green he goes to
00:50:09Perry Green because Perry Green back then this man is such a flip-flopper he
00:50:14was associating with all the polygamists back then too because as I mentioned
00:50:17Sidney Jackson was a polygamist in him and Sidney Jackson were also tight and
00:50:21Perry Green was being tolerant of polygamy through all of that and so the
00:50:27reason that the marriage and divorce tape is in circulation in the world
00:50:31today is because the leader of the first polygamist sect of the message
00:50:35asked Perry Green to release the tape so he could use it as part of his bid to
00:50:40justify polygamy in the message ladies and gentlemen don't tell me and you hear
00:50:45people today that say all polygamy has nothing to do with that you silly silly
00:50:49people that is the entire reason the tape is in circulation is because of
00:50:54polygamy you know and what do you do with it John I mean I just don't know
00:50:58what to do with some I know a lot of people don't know the history of all
00:51:01this stuff they weren't around with all this a lot of this stuff happened but
00:51:04this is the truth of how the marriage and divorce tape came out how Perry
00:51:08Green released it and it was released on purpose and as an effort to justify
00:51:13polygamy in the message and you have to wonder we've talked often about how
00:51:17there's dirt on other ministers well if you consider what's happening in the
00:51:23polygamy sect here is a man who's claiming William Branham said this and I
00:51:28was there I heard him say it and he's being disavowed by the larger group of
00:51:34the message following well here's a man Perry Green who has the best dirt of all
00:51:40well he actually did say it everybody who says that he didn't is a liar he's
00:51:44holding on to this so you have to wonder how that conversation played out if you
00:51:50guys don't increase my revenue I'm going to release this recording and you're all
00:51:54gonna look like fools because this bozo William Branham actually did support
00:51:58polygamy and for our listeners I know I know like there's gonna be people in
00:52:03Africa and different things like oh you guys how do you know any of this let me
00:52:07tell you how I know this I am formerly the associate pastor of the second
00:52:11message church that was ever in the world okay our people were there when
00:52:16all of these things happened these people were in these people were in our
00:52:19churches when these things happened okay for goodness sakes and John you are from
00:52:24the first message church and your grandfather was the pastor of the first
00:52:27message church we are from the very heart and the uppermost tiers of the
00:52:34central leadership of the oldest sects of the message okay that is how we know
00:52:38this stuff okay and for some there's a lot of things John we can just say we
00:52:41are personally witnesses we can personally vouch that these things are
00:52:44true and I can say that for myself you know and besides a lot of these things
00:52:48are on tape too if you want to go hunt up the tapes but anyway John I mean
00:52:53there are so many dark secrets in the message and the message is cut up into
00:52:57so many sects that don't talk to each other like a lot of the stuff is just
00:53:01they don't have an awareness right they just don't have awareness of why all
00:53:05this stuff happens so anyways that's why the marriage and divorce tape is out
00:53:07there and that's not the only secret message tape that Perry Green released
00:53:11John Perry Green's also the guy who released off the original version of the
00:53:15seven seals tape you know how the seven seals you know ends at a certain spot
00:53:19and it says and then it William Brown's recording the rest in a hotel room who
00:53:24let out the original tape John that was unedited and forced them up Perry Green
00:53:28Perry Green's the guy I mean John what you could do with that you have the
00:53:35secret recording of William Branham preaching the original ending of the
00:53:41sermon on the seven seals could the rapturing faith be in there John could
00:53:46that be in there I mean think of Perry Green made so much out of this stuff
00:53:52John I mean it and and he just he monetized all this stuff and besides
00:53:57that I mean he was selling I mean he would sell William Branham relics or
00:54:02give William Branham relics away and he did this like it seemed like he always
00:54:07whenever he ran out of some of William Branham's clothes to cut up and sell off
00:54:11as your giveaway is prayer cloths or whatever draw suddenly he would find
00:54:15another bag of William Branham's clothes in the attic oh hey guys look I found
00:54:19this clothes bag of clothes of William Branham's clothes that I forgot I even
00:54:23had oh wow look we've got more holy relics to go on like he had this
00:54:27unending supply of relics and and this is another funny story John so after
00:54:32after the copyright war starts and Billy Paul and Perry Green break up Billy Paul
00:54:39starts to announce remember hey we've run out of prayer cloths this happened
00:54:42in I want to say the early 90s we've gaven out the last of the prayer cloths
00:54:47that William Branham prayed over and Billy Paul said we don't have any more
00:54:51of William Branham's prayer cloths anymore they're all finally used up well
00:54:55John just a couple months later Perry Green comes out ladies and gentlemen I
00:54:58have found a bag in my attic did he really I mean come on I mean it is so
00:55:07obvious the stuff that he was doing to do people you know and and that was
00:55:12again a one-up on Billy Paul in the tabernacle after they started to have
00:55:16their fallen out and he just did stuff like this on and on and on John I mean
00:55:20it's it's unbelievable it's unbelievable stuff that he got away with it it really
00:55:25is unbelievable man you know there are people in the message who are aware of
00:55:29the broader Christian community and they see things like Bethel I think it's
00:55:34Bethel Church the one that was putting gold dust into the fans and watching it
00:55:38blow and oh my gosh there's gold dust falling from heaven it's God is blessing
00:55:44our church or angel felt there's all kinds of these weird things that they're
00:55:47doing and message people who are aware of the broader community say I can see
00:55:51right through that that's all fake that show anybody who has any common sense
00:55:55would know that that's they're just toying with the people's heads well take
00:55:59the flip side of that everybody who's in these big in a our churches who's aware
00:56:04of this nonsense that went on the message why didn't they see through that
00:56:07man that was such a gimmick it's like John Goodman the Bible salesman man
00:56:12they're just robbing the people blind and they're willingly being robbed it's
00:56:17so funny cuz you know by the time you get into the 80s John I mean they're
00:56:20down to cutting up William Branham's underwear for prayer cloths I mean it's
00:56:24and of course then they finally run out of prayer cloths you know even his
00:56:28underwear eventually okay so I'm gonna open up to everybody and embarrass
00:56:37myself publicly I'll embarrass myself I've mentioned that I wore a prayer
00:56:41cloth that my parents kept hiding it on me it may or may not have been the
00:56:46underwear version oh goodness John and so after the underwear supply goes out
00:56:55there's no more prayer cloths like they reach the bottom of the barrel on
00:56:59William Brown's prayer cloths yeah and Perry Green mysteriously finds a whole
00:57:04set of William Brennan's clothes in his attic to cut up and make new prayer
00:57:07cloths yeah and yeah yeah but let's let's yeah let's stop off here John I
00:57:13mean this is a pretty good stopping point I think we got to talk about the
00:57:17copyright war so so I don't think we've got to do one more one more one more
00:57:22one more episode on this at least because everything we've talked about so
00:57:25far John was all happening while Perry Green and all this was in the main sect
00:57:29like we haven't really got out of the main sect times here it's when the
00:57:33copyright war start that these guys really break away from the main sect and
00:57:37but I do think we've set the table it was these lawsuits and Perry Green
00:57:42starting to rob the other senior leaders of the main sect that set up the
00:57:49bad blood which then instigated them to start the copyright war because I think
00:57:55it is very fair and this is how I look at it the copyright war that follows is
00:57:59them finally deciding all right Perry Green you have you have robbed us enough
00:58:05you have you've got enough out of us now we're kicking you to the curb and we're
00:58:09gonna do to you what you've been doing to us it was almost payback John it
00:58:13really was I mean I think it's very fair to characterize the copyright wars as
00:58:18they started they were specifically targeting Perry Green to begin with it
00:58:21was payback for all of the dirty stuff Perry Green had did to them I agree we
00:58:26could probably we could probably talk for three or four more episodes on just
00:58:29Perry Green there's so much here and when you consider the broad scope of
00:58:33what all this covers the message and the religion is only just one little tiny
00:58:39small piece of this puzzle there's so much more but let's cut it off here and
00:58:43we'll see how how much further we can go with it and copyright wars that's a good
00:58:47starting point I remember when all that was playing out and I have a little bit
00:58:52of family history on the you know my grandfather's house on the inside where
00:58:56I'm hearing play-by-play what my grandfather's saying about this and
00:59:00there's a lot there and I found I don't think people really realize what all was
00:59:04going on behind the scenes so I'm back next time we'll talk about the copyright
00:59:08wars yeah we'll cut it off there well if you've enjoyed our show and you want
00:59:12more information you can check us out on the web you can find us at William
00:59:15Branham org and Christian gospel church org for more about the history of
00:59:19William Branham and the healing revivals you can read come out of her my people
00:59:23and for more about the dark side of the new apostolic Reformation you can read
00:59:27weaponized religion from Christian identity to the NAR both available on
00:59:32Amazon Kindle and Audible
01:00:32you