Sheldon Whitehouse Brings The Receipts During Heated Clash With EPA Head Lee Zeldin

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During a Senate Environment and Public Works Committee hearing on Wednesday, Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) questioned EPA Administrator on his Agency's review of nearly 800 canceled grants.

Transcript

00:00Thank you. Senator Whitehouse.

00:02Thanks very much. Administrator Zeldin, on April 23rd, Daniel Coogan, for the EPA,

00:14filed a sworn statement in court that said, and I quote here,

00:20EPA leadership conducted an individualized grant-by-grant review to determine which grants should continue.

00:30He made that statement under oath, and on the following page of his declaration,

00:36he said that there were approximately 377 grantees that had received cancellation notices

00:45and another 404 grantees who would receive notices within the next two weeks

00:52for a total, by my math, of 781 total grantees.

00:57Do you dispute his testimony that there were 781 individual grants at issue?

01:04The exact number I don't have offhand, but it sounds like it could be a fraud.

01:08But you don't dispute it? So let's say that it's 781 or thereabouts.

01:11As far as the individual reviews, I did those myself.

01:14His testimony under oath was that that took place.

01:19Then, and I'd ask unanimous consent that that declaration of Daniel Coogan be made an exhibit.

01:26Then, on May 6th, Travis Voiles of EPA made the following statement, also under oath, also in a court filing.

01:38He said, on February 25th, 2025, I conducted an individualized review of EPA grant programs.

01:48That day, I decided that certain grant programs should be terminated for policy reasons.

01:55So there are three things about that Voiles statement that are noteworthy.

01:59First, the date.

02:00He said that he did this all on February 25th, which is interesting.

02:07Because if he put in a 10-hour day, that's 600 minutes of time for 781 grant applications,

02:16which means he would have had to conclude his review of each of them in 45 seconds without even a bathroom break.

02:23The second thing about the statement is that he said, I conducted.

02:27Not you conducted, Administrator Zeldin.

02:29Not leadership conducted.

02:31He said, he conducted, and he said that under oath.

02:34The third thing that was interesting is that he dropped in a weasel word.

02:38Programs.

02:39He didn't say individualized review of grants.

02:41He said individualized review of grant programs.

02:44Mr. Zeldin, is there a difference between a grant and a grant program?

02:48Well, you have individual grants inside of a grant program.

02:52And you could have dozens or even hundreds of individual grants inside of a grant program, correct?

02:56I know for a fact that Travis Voiles individually reviewed every single grant individually.

03:02And I know that I've reviewed every single grant individually.

03:05And I also know that Travis Voiles-

03:06That is not what the sworn testimony indicates.

03:08Let me reclaim my time here.

03:10But the fact is-

03:11On May 16th-

03:12You both individually reviewed all of the grants.

03:15And I know that he was working on it every single day, not just on one day.

03:18Well, that's not what his sworn testimony was.

03:20And on May 16th, DOJ career lawyers, who are under an obligation of candor to the tribunal,

03:29upon which their right to practice law depends, filed a pleading in federal court that conceded

03:37that you had not done individualized grant-by-grant reviews.

03:43They were not contesting that APA failed to do an individualized review.

03:48In court, they admitted.

03:50In fact, their language is, defendants do not contest judgment on the merits of plaintiffs'

03:55APA claims.

03:56I'd ask that the reply be put into the record.

03:59That the Voiles declaration be put into the record.

04:03And that an inside EPA news report that discusses that court proceeding be put into the record.

04:11Without objection.

04:12And then yesterday, you stated during your House E&C hearing that you personally reviewed

04:18all these grants.

04:19Here's what you said.

04:20I was the one who made the decision.

04:23And I made the decision after doing individual review.

04:26I personally reviewed every single grant that I canceled.

04:29Now, you guys are going to have to start getting your stories straight.

04:34Because there are three completely different statements and they cannot all be true.

04:38It cannot be that Voiles, personally, himself, conducted the review of 781.

04:45He did.

04:46And that Coogan sawtooth that it was individually done.

04:50Others did.

04:51It's a crazy concept, Senator, but maybe more than one person was individually reviewing

04:55these grants.

04:56Maybe they were working on it for more than one day, Senator.

04:58Have you thought about that concept?

04:59Will you show-

05:00Will you-

05:01What about the fact that when-

05:02When their testimony is that they did it all on one day.

05:05No, I do not-

05:06I announce every single time-

05:07I do not agree with that, Administrator.

05:08I was kicked to clean the grant, Senator.

05:09He swore in court that he did it on one day.

05:13So you can't now come in and say that that's false.

05:15You make a decision on a day after you work on it-

05:18He didn't say-

05:19Busting your ass for a while to get all of your ducks lined up.

05:21That's not what he said.

05:22To do all the research, to ask questions, to make sure you're making responsible decisions.

05:25None of that is what he said.

05:26Because you're not worried that there's going to be some ranking member-

05:29None of that is what he said.

05:30Who doesn't care about the facts.

05:32None of that is what he said.

05:33I'm using the facts as your employees stated them.

05:36I conduct an individual review of everything.

05:38And that concept doesn't work for you.

05:40When?

05:41When did you conduct that individualized review of 781 grants?

05:45Because we have a zero tolerance policy towards wasting dollars.

05:47Will you show me your schedule?

05:48We inherit something-

05:49You don't care about wasting money.

05:50Will you show me your schedule?

05:51You don't care about wasting money, but the Trump administration does, Senator.

05:54Will you show me your schedule?

05:56Our schedule's publicly released.

05:58We don't put on the schedule every single moment-

06:01Will you show me your schedule to prove your assertion-

06:05I'm here under oath, Senator.

06:06That you did individualized review of 781.

06:08I'm here under oath, Senator.

06:09I'm here under oath telling you that I was reviewing this stuff and working on it almost

06:12every single day.

06:13Why?

06:14Because when I was before this committee, I was asked by Senator Ricketts, if confirmed,

06:19would I immediately make this the top priority to go through all the grant funding going through EPA

06:25to make sure that we are cracking down on every waste, every aspect of abuse.

06:30Because I have to come back here in front of Senator Ricketts today.

06:33And even though you don't care about wasting tax dollars, Senator Ricketts does.

06:37And I'm going to do my job because the American public cares about us not wasting tax dollars.

06:42And the problem with your assertion here today is that it is belied by your own employees' sworn statements in court

06:50and by the decision of the Department of Justice to admit that what you say isn't true.

06:55No, you're not grasping the fact that we would have multiple employees looking at these grants.

07:00That concept just escapes you like that's even a possibility.

07:03The only thing about that is that that's not true.

07:06About 99% of the story.

07:08That's not true according to your own employee's testimony.

07:11You're not grasping it, Senator.

07:12I don't know what to say to you.

07:14You're insisting on the fact.

07:15I'm insisting on the facts.

07:17That's exactly what I'm insisting on.

07:19I'm insisting on the facts and I now have three different versions of the facts,

07:23including Department of Justice lawyers who admitted in court that what you're saying now is not true.

07:30And we're not going to waste dollars just because you insist on EPA lighting taxpayer dollars on fire.

07:35The American taxpayers, they put President Trump in office because of people like you.

07:40They have Republicans in charge of the House and Senate because of people like you.

07:44Because you don't care about 99% of this story.

07:47You don't want me to go through the list of all the evidence of waste and abuse.

07:51You don't care about unqualified recipients.

07:52No, what I want you to do is explain why the Department of Justice lawyers representing EPA in court,

08:06under a duty of candor, have said that everything you've just said isn't true.

08:10That's what I want.

08:11Get me that answer.

08:12I'm here before this committee under oath.

08:14I've exceeded my time.

08:15I'll let the chairman take back the gavel.

08:19All right.

08:21Well, we seem to have a little bit of a disagreement.

08:24Perhaps we can work on this in the future about the difference between the discrepancy here.

08:29Does that sound fair?

08:30Absolutely.

08:31I think getting to the basis and the bottom of this dispute is very important.

08:37And the facts actually matter here.

08:39All right.

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