Mark Pocan Appears Shocked By Sec. Linda McMahon's Answer To His Question About Elon Musk

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During a House Appropriations Committee hearing on Wednesday, Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI) questioned Education Secretary Linda McMahon about Elon Musk's contracts with the Department of Education.

Transcript

00:00Thank you, Madam Secretary. No, I think it's my question time, if I can.

00:04They'll start the clock. I just don't want to lose my clock.

00:06And if we can do short-term answers rather than long-term ones, too, that'd be helpful,

00:11just because I've got a lot I'd like to talk about.

00:14Let's talk about waste-fraught abuse a little more, about Doge.

00:17So you fired 1,300 people. Another 600 people took Elon Musk's deferred resignation offer.

00:24Did you fire the people, or did Doge fire the people? I'm not completely clear on that.

00:30Most, excuse me, most of that restructuring happened under the acting center.

00:35Short-term, did you fire, or did Doge fire?

00:38Well, I'm going to tell you who I fired.

00:39I know, but that's why I'm trying to get short-term questions.

00:40It's one or the other, right?

00:42You're using our time.

00:43Yeah.

00:43So most of that was done before I came on board.

00:47However, the decisions in the department I run, I run the department. Doge does not run the department.

00:52Okay, so you didn't answer the question. Did you fire them, or did Doge? It's real simple.

00:56A good majority of that happened before I came on board.

00:58Okay. A good majority, two-thirds, three-quarters?

01:01Yes, I'd say.

01:02Okay, fair. Okay. And how many times did you meet with Elon Musk?

01:07I've met with Mr. Musk probably three to four times now.

01:11Okay.

01:12Not including when I was on the transition committee and had several opportunities to speak with him.

01:16Sure. And then if I understand it right, on your Department of Education employee roster,

01:21you have right now at least is about 16 Doge employees. Is that correct right now working with you?

01:26I can get back to you to the exact number. I don't think it's that high, but we do have,

01:30they are employees. Those that we have are employees of the federal government.

01:33And when you did their background checks to see how they're qualified about education,

01:36how many had undergraduate degrees and how many had graduate degrees in education?

01:39I can get back to you on that.

01:40Okay. So you don't know offhand.

01:42No.

01:43Did you ask that question?

01:44No.

01:45No. Okay. Did you ask if any of them were teachers previously?

01:49I did not interview those people that are part of the Doge group.

01:52And did you ask if any of them worked in schools? Did you know if they were asked?

01:56I had a conversation with one of them yesterday who did have a background in education,

02:00technology education, and had worked across several different aspects. It was really schooling

02:05me a little bit on some of the AI things that we could bring in.

02:08So one of them had a good background. Good. Any of them work in universities that you know of prior?

02:13I don't know.

02:14Okay. Fair enough. So part of my concern is, I know yesterday there was this big splash,

02:21Elon Musk is stepping back. We call that horse hockey where I come from, right? We know it's not

02:28real. He's in the back closet. I understand you guys don't want his front and center, but he's still

02:33in the room and he's still making a lot of these decisions. And that's the real problem that I have

02:39is, you know, you've got a bunch of folks that he brought in that you've admitted. You haven't, you

02:44didn't hire, you don't know their backgrounds, if they have anything in education, yet they're helping

02:49you fire half of your employees right now. And I'm really concerned about that. Do you know if

02:55any of them have requested or gained access to any sensitive data held by the department, including

02:59student loan borrower data? Well, as government employees now, they have been vetted through the

03:05same process than any other government employee would. And so what access would be granted to other

03:10government employees they have. That's fine. And then do you know the number of people that you've

03:15had to reinstate of those fired? About, it's about 74. About 74. So how did that happen? Because,

03:22you know, I've been an employer for 37 years. The dumbest thing I could possibly do is fire

03:26someone just to rehire them, right? Because you've given them no job security. It's like

03:30beyond stupid, right? Not saying that you, because you didn't do it. Clearly, it sounds like this is

03:35from Elon Musk. But how did that happen that people got fired and no one thought of you might need them

03:40in your department? Well, some of that did happen when I returned. Now, I was in the private sector.

03:44I have done restructuring in firms and it's painful to do that. Yeah. But fire people to rehire them?

03:49Well, here's the thing. Like, usually that's not a strategy. When you are restructuring a company,

03:53you hope that you're just cutting fat. Sometimes you cuddle in the muscle and you realize it as

03:58you're continuing with your programs and you can bring people back to do that. Yeah. Or you can plan

04:02ahead and not hire, fire people to rehire them, right? That would be another strategy that I think

04:07is more often used. Would you agree? Well, I'm saying that I have been on both sides of that coin

04:11and I found them both to be effective. Okay. Interesting. We have a different perspective on that,

04:17that maybe the world of all-star wrestling is different than my world of business to business.

04:22You talked about, and I agree with you, about contracts, enriching private contractors at

04:28public expense. Does Elon Musk have any contracts with the Department of Education?

04:33First of all, I just need to... It's a simple question, please.

04:35Well, I just... Not that I know of. This is my time. I have 38 seconds,

04:38please. Well, I don't know if he does or not. You don't know if Elon Musk has any contracts in

04:41your department and you've met with him multiple times? Elon Musk doesn't have contracts in my department.

04:47So, Department of Education, there are no contracts with any Elon Musk company. That's what I'm asking.

04:51Not to my knowledge. Okay. All right. You want to check a blue card real quick or are you pretty

04:56sure of that? I said not to my knowledge. Okay. If I find out differently, I'll be happy to get back

05:00to you. All right. And just in the last few seconds, I have just real quick on private schools getting

05:05public dollars. Just so you know, something like three quarters of the students that wind up going to

05:12those schools already attend those schools and they're getting tax money. So, if we get rid of

05:16the Department of Education, should we put the private voucher program under ways and means

05:21because it's really more of a tax benefit than an education benefit?

05:24Well, I'm happy to get back to you on that as to how we restructure the Department of Education

05:28going forward and how those programs are handled.

05:31Great. Appreciate it. Thank you, Madam Secretary.

05:32You're welcome.

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