- 5/20/2025
Griffin Johnson is one of the internet's most popular influencers, and as a 2.5% owner in Sandman, he has now turned his attention to the Kentucky Derby, where Sandman will go off as one of the favorites. He joins the TDN Writers' Roomto talk about young people and horse racing.
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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the TDN.
00:00:34I also co-host the Down the Stretch radio show on Saturday mornings on Sirius XM with
00:00:39Dave Johnson.
00:00:41And my name is Randy Moss, as you can probably guess.
00:00:44I'm with NBC Sports.
00:00:45Zoe Cabin with First Racing and First TV.
00:00:48Randy, did you get some sunburn there when you were in Cabo?
00:00:51Are you covering your head for the sunburn?
00:00:54I did get a little sunburn.
00:00:55And then I was in Dallas after that, where it was 88, 89 degrees, playing a little golf.
00:01:00So I've got better than your normal Minnesota tan working right now, I think.
00:01:06Tough life.
00:01:07Yes, it is indeed.
00:01:09So anyway, guys, it's a week and a half out from the Derby.
00:01:12Now we're recording this on a Tuesday.
00:01:15So if by the time this hits your computer screens or wherever you get your podcasts,
00:01:22as they like to say, some of the news may have changed.
00:01:26But let's tell everybody what we know at this point.
00:01:29There are still 23, 24 horses that are vying to get into the Derby.
00:01:35And the big news right now, as it was last week, is that Baeza, a horse that ran so well
00:01:40to finish second in the Santa Anita Derby, is on the outside looking in.
00:01:44He's in 23rd place right now.
00:01:48So he needs a lot of luck, or we don't ask for this, we hope this doesn't happen, but
00:01:53for a couple of horses to get injured to get into the race.
00:01:57That's going to be one of the big stories, I think, going into it is how the Santa Anita
00:02:01Derby runner-up was kept out of the race.
00:02:03Randy, what else do you know about comings and goings of these horses?
00:02:07Injured or sick, I think is what they're hoping, the Baeza people, not hoping necessarily,
00:02:14but I think that's what they have to count on.
00:02:16Because right now it looks like, to my eye at least, he's in a bad situation.
00:02:24I think he's the second best horse in the race.
00:02:27Bilt is scheduled to work this week for Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners and trainer Wayne Catalano.
00:02:35They had previously indicated, prior to the last couple of weeks, that he would be extremely
00:02:42doubtful for the Kentucky Derby and more likely for the Pat Day Mile because of distance considerations.
00:02:50On the also eligibles, Neo Equos, right now is number 21.
00:02:56They are pretty much banking on Bilt not running in the Kentucky Derby to put them in the field.
00:03:04They certainly have an intent to run if they can, otherwise they're looking at the American
00:03:11Turf for the first turf start for Neo Equos.
00:03:15Then there's Rinder Judgment, who's number 22, just ahead of Baeza.
00:03:19I think he more than likely would run if the possibility existed.
00:03:25If you go way back in the day, when racing was much more of the sport of kings than it
00:03:31is now, a lot of the elites owned horses.
00:03:34It was considered a faux pas.
00:03:36It was considered to be bad form to run a horse in the Kentucky Derby that had really
00:03:41absolutely no chance, that you knew was going to be a 30 or 40 or 50 to one shot.
00:03:47That's totally gone.
00:03:48That's totally turned on its head.
00:03:50Now it's all about getting the experience of Derby Day and being able to say that you
00:03:57started a horse in the Kentucky Derby, even if you ran 16th or 17th.
00:04:02Used to be a trainer could tell an owner, we've got no chance in here.
00:04:07Let's point for the Peter Pan.
00:04:09Nowadays, people that know nothing about racing would say, oh, that's cute.
00:04:15You ran your horse in a race named for Peter Pan.
00:04:19What about the Kentucky Derby?
00:04:20Have you ever had a horse in the Kentucky Derby?
00:04:23You're going to have 20 horse fields filled with long shots, probably forever more the
00:04:29way it's looking right now.
00:04:32That's exactly it nowadays.
00:04:34Everyone wants to know if you meet a trainer, if you meet a jockey, if you meet an owner,
00:04:37oh, if you run a horse in the Derby, it's a billion dollar business.
00:04:41Just getting to the Derby during the walkover is huge.
00:04:45You've already won.
00:04:46There are no losers in this year's Kentucky Derby as far as I'm concerned.
00:04:50You're already a winner because you made it and you're in whether you deserve to be there
00:04:55or not, or whether we think you should be there.
00:04:57You've got the points you're in, you're already a winner.
00:05:01And that's what it's all about.
00:05:02It's not so much winning the Derby anymore.
00:05:05It's getting to the Derby.
00:05:07Once you get there, well, anything can happen after that.
00:05:11But getting a horse in the Derby, it's so hard to do.
00:05:14Consider the full crop and there's only 20 spaces in the starting gate.
00:05:19You are a winner if you've made it that far and the rest is just the icing on the cake.
00:05:25Whether you get the icing, it doesn't matter.
00:05:27You're in the Derby.
00:05:28That is the modern day mindset, especially in the age of social media and everything
00:05:33else that gets to go with it.
00:05:35We're going to have Griffin Johnson on a little bit later and we'll have pictures of
00:05:38him bathing Sandman.
00:05:41That's it.
00:05:42You're in the Derby.
00:05:43It's huge.
00:05:44And so I also think that a lot of this has to do with the mind that bird effect and then
00:05:48later the rich strike effect.
00:05:50I mean, any of us will give you a thousand to one on these horses.
00:05:54I don't want a thousand to one on mind that bird.
00:05:57Let's start talking 10,000 to one.
00:06:00These horses have showed that anybody and I'm with Randy.
00:06:04I'd like it better.
00:06:05The old school ways and I don't see the thrill of running a horse that's going to be 17th
00:06:10in the Derby, but obviously a lot of people disagree with me.
00:06:14But I think with, especially with mind that bird one, people say, just get in the race.
00:06:18It's kind of like with the baseball, the world series, just get in the playoffs.
00:06:21You never know what's going to happen.
00:06:24So I think that's had an effect on it too.
00:06:26And Randy, just before we went on, I texted Aaron Wellman, who's a Clips Enterprise, Clips
00:06:34Thoroughbreds, owns a blink.
00:06:36And I said, Aaron, have you made a decision about built yet?
00:06:39He wrote back status quo will breeze in the next few days.
00:06:43I'm not sure what that means.
00:06:44Can you read between the lines, the status quo in or out?
00:06:47Well, now he told, I asked him the same thing.
00:06:49I texted him yesterday, I believe.
00:06:54And he told me that no decision has been made yet and they won't make a decision until they
00:07:00breeze him this week.
00:07:04In fact, he said, seeing how he breezes this week, my reply was, OK, thanks.
00:07:12Sounds like he's in.
00:07:13No reply.
00:07:14All right.
00:07:18So that's the situation with that.
00:07:19And another funny thing about this, and Zoe, you can tackle this.
00:07:24If things don't break his way, Flavian Pratt doesn't have a mount.
00:07:28Can you imagine that the guy who is just the hottest jockey in the world right now, winning
00:07:34everything left and right?
00:07:35How the heck did that work out?
00:07:36Now, he will ride by Aza if by Aza gets in, but if by Aza does not get in, I haven't heard
00:07:42any trainers talking about sacking their jockeys.
00:07:45And there's a lot of kind of lesser named jockeys, much more so than normal in this
00:07:50Kentucky Derby.
00:07:51The Nick Juarez is of the world and everything about it looks like Pratt might be watching
00:07:56this on the jock from trainers are being very loyal.
00:07:59This Kentucky Derby, other than obviously Hector Berrios was riding by Aza, Lee Searing
00:08:06with CRK.
00:08:07It's his decision.
00:08:08Obviously, if you can get Pratt, you're going to get Pratt, right?
00:08:11No slight, slight on Hector Berrios.
00:08:13He's done a fantastic job with this horse.
00:08:15Not John Sheriff's decision.
00:08:17It was the owner's decision with that.
00:08:19I think, Randy, you said that Pratt might ride Neo Equos if he gets in.
00:08:23Yeah, he will, apparently.
00:08:25Mark Cornett, the co-owner of Neo Equos C2 Racing, told me yesterday or the day before
00:08:33that they would run if they could get in and that Flavian Pratt would be aboard if Baeza
00:08:38doesn't get in.
00:08:40Which is a shame.
00:08:41And, you know, Pratt's agent playing the long game.
00:08:43They really hope Baeza gets in because he has a significant shot in this year's Derby.
00:08:49He worked brilliantly just a couple of days ago.
00:08:53And then, you know, we're talking about horses getting in and, you know, having to scratch
00:08:57a horse because it gets sick or maybe didn't jump through all the hoops for the vet.
00:09:02What about all the jocks going in?
00:09:04You know, every other day you have a jock that might break a collarbone, do a knee,
00:09:09hurt his ankle in the starting gate.
00:09:11Pratt's on the sidelines looking in.
00:09:13So he's there as a reserve.
00:09:15He could easily hop on any mount should an unfortunate situation come along where someone
00:09:21breaks a pinky, breaks a toenail, whatever it is, he's available, which is a big plus
00:09:26as well.
00:09:28And Zoe, you've been watching the California contingent work out before they left for Churchill
00:09:33Downs.
00:09:34Some I don't know if some have left, I guess now and maybe some haven't.
00:09:37But you say you've been very impressed with the whole lot of them.
00:09:41Tell us more.
00:09:42You know, people want to, you know, pee on California racing.
00:09:45Go right ahead.
00:09:46But look at the hand that California has going into this year's Kentucky Derby.
00:09:51It's a damn shame they made the point system as it is with having four or five runners
00:09:58that the points need to be reduced because any other year Baeza would be in.
00:10:02I spoke to John Sheriffs about this and he simply said, it is what it is.
00:10:06What can I do?
00:10:07You know, he's disappointed, but it is what it is.
00:10:10So Baeza is on the outside looking and he worked terrifically, came home like a steam
00:10:15train.
00:10:16Hector Barrios very nicely worked him even though he's not going to retain the mount
00:10:20should he run in the Derby.
00:10:22And he went off at 52 and changed probably too slow, but came back like a rocket ship.
00:10:27Journalism continues to impress in the morning.
00:10:29He was on the inside of another horse working and they just kind of shoved him along.
00:10:33He had a very sharp work in 47.
00:10:36Citizen Bull worked with the blinkers off behind another horse.
00:10:39Did that very nice.
00:10:40Bob's still on the fence.
00:10:42I tackled him and said, blinkers on or blinkers off.
00:10:44He's like, I, you know, I think I'm going to wait until I really have to make the decision.
00:10:50So that's on the fence there.
00:10:51He worked very well.
00:10:53And Rodriguez, he's still a big baby Huey, but all four of these are coming into the
00:10:58Kentucky Derby as well as they possibly can.
00:11:01And weather plays a big factor out here in Southern California.
00:11:04One other thing I want to discuss quickly, and we're talking about the Kentucky Derby
00:11:09effect and getting into it.
00:11:12The Netflix show is starting tomorrow called Race to the Crown.
00:11:16Have you guys seen the trailer to it?
00:11:18I have.
00:11:19Yes.
00:11:20Oh, it's spectacular.
00:11:21I really like it.
00:11:22Excellent.
00:11:23We want to talk about people getting Kentucky Derby fever all like I go to Rotten Tomatoes
00:11:28to get my reviews and they usually just down everything.
00:11:32They're the biggest Debbie Downers ever and they gave it a big thumbs up.
00:11:35The trailer looks fabulous.
00:11:37I will try to be watching that in the next couple of days.
00:11:40Yeah, it looks interesting.
00:11:41Yeah, I think it'll be fun.
00:11:43The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:11:46The catalog is out for Keeneland's April Selected Horses of Racing Age sale to be held
00:11:50Friday, April the 25th, at the conclusion of the day's races.
00:11:55Entries include several horses coming off winning maiden races.
00:11:59You have stakes winners like Normandy Close, who won Keeneland's Palisades stakes and
00:12:04Star of Wonder, a four-time winner who is a half-brother to multiple grade one winner
00:12:09She Dares the Devil.
00:12:11Find the Enhanced Digital Catalog at Keeneland.com or pick up a print copy at Keeneland beginning
00:12:17on Thursday.
00:12:18Still catching!
00:12:19Leslie's Rose!
00:12:20Sierra!
00:12:21Leon!
00:12:22Mike, five million dollars.
00:12:24Carl Spackler!
00:12:25Immersive!
00:12:26She feels pretty!
00:12:27And the Fasting Source of the Week this week is brought to you by Independence Hall, one
00:12:55of those fast sires at One Star Farm.
00:12:57At the OBS April sale, this was HIP 619, a colt by Independence Hall sold for $700,000
00:13:06last Thursday after breezing a quarter mile in 20.2 seconds, tied for the fastest quarter
00:13:12time at the sale.
00:13:13This was the highest price of the day for a freshman sire.
00:13:16Steve Asmussen signed the ticket and he said that Independence Halls have a very athletic
00:13:21look and that this particular colt stood out amongst the others.
00:13:26And Independence Hall's first two-year-olds will be running this year.
00:13:31Now the Fastest Source of the Week, Goodolphin's first mission, courtesy of his victory in
00:13:36Saturday's Oak Lawn Handicap.
00:13:38It was almost a year ago that first mission ran a 106 buyer speed figure in the Alisheba
00:13:43Stakes on the Kentucky Derby undercard.
00:13:46At that point, it looked like he was going to live up to his potential.
00:13:48Then he came up flat in the Stephen Foster and the Whitney.
00:13:52They gave him time off to eat some grass, in trainer Brad Cox's words.
00:13:56Seven months later, he came back in the Razorback, finished third, and then he came up huge this
00:14:01past weekend.
00:14:02The five-year-old son of Street Sense drove past defending champ Skippy Longstocking and
00:14:07then the Red Hot banishing to win the Oak Lawn Handicap by daylight with a career-high
00:14:11109 buyer speed figure.
00:14:15About two and a half hours before that, Cox also sent out the second Fastest Source of
00:14:19the Week, Just a Touch, who earned a 104 buyer with his allowance win at Keeneland, also
00:14:26at a mile and an eighth.
00:14:31Now we welcome in the Gamesway Guest of the Week, and it's a young man by the name of
00:14:34Griffin Johnson.
00:14:35He may not be that familiar within horse racing circles, but to the general population, he
00:14:40is very well known.
00:14:42He's an influencer, which means he has six zillion followers on TikTok and Instagram
00:14:48and all that.
00:14:49Griffin, before we get into racing stuff, and you are on because you're a part owner
00:14:53of Sandman, but for those of us who were born before the social media craze took off, what
00:14:59is an influencer?
00:15:00Well, thank you for the intro.
00:15:03I appreciate that.
00:15:05I would say an influencer, at least for me, is someone on the internet that's able to
00:15:14captivate the culture of the iPhone or I guess any internet device and make content that
00:15:21people enjoy, whether that's horse racing, whether that's cooking, cleaning, anything
00:15:27in between, really.
00:15:28Just putting content out there that helps people or gives them entertainment, really.
00:15:35If you can influence Sandman to run another big race in the derby, you got something there,
00:15:39huh?
00:15:40Yeah, we'll see how great of an influencer I really am, I guess, going up here.
00:15:46So how did you get involved?
00:15:48How and why did you get involved with the ownership of Sandman?
00:15:53Yeah, that's a great question.
00:15:55It actually was kind of just random.
00:15:59I run a venture capital fund, Animal Capital.
00:16:02That's kind of my second job, aside from influencing on the internet.
00:16:08I had a mutual friend that had someone that worked at West Point that they knew, and they
00:16:14connected me with America's Best Racing and told me about their program.
00:16:19So it was, I guess, not really me reaching out.
00:16:24It was just kind of something that happened, and they just had got Sandman.
00:16:28West Point had just came into their ownership with Sandman, and they're like, hey, we have
00:16:32this beautiful gray horse.
00:16:35We really think that you guys could be a great pair.
00:16:37We'd love for you to meet him and just, you know, see if you would be interested in getting
00:16:41into racing.
00:16:42And obviously, I saw him, and I was sold immediately.
00:16:47So you jumped in from the beginning.
00:16:49It's not like you all of a sudden, he's a grade one winner, and you're like, yeah, I'll
00:16:52have a piece of that one.
00:16:54You were there from the get-go, were you?
00:16:56Yeah, I mean, it's just like anything else.
00:16:59Once he starts winning, people start paying attention.
00:17:02So now they see me and Sandman and all of our content on the internet.
00:17:06But yeah, I jumped in from day one.
00:17:09We hadn't even seen him really train or do anything yet.
00:17:13So yeah, it was kind of a I-trust-you-you-trust-me moment.
00:17:17And luckily, no matter how much money you spend or how much prep you put into it, you
00:17:22never know if you're going to get a true winner.
00:17:25So I just thank my lucky stars that I got a piece of Sandman out of all the horses.
00:17:31Do you know how lucky you are?
00:17:33I mean, someone should just be robbing you or something.
00:17:35You are a lucky SOB.
00:17:38Yeah, trust me, I am fully aware of the amount of luck that went into this.
00:17:43I mean, I genuinely feel for everyone that's been putting their heart and soul into this
00:17:48sport for so many years.
00:17:51Just look at the Derby Trail itself, you have Cole Battle himself, you have people
00:17:56that have been doing this their whole life, and then there's me.
00:17:59So I'm taking in every moment.
00:18:01I hope that we can really use this to grow the sport and expand it and bring in people
00:18:06and show them what horse racing is really all about.
00:18:10And Griffin, how will you use your social media platforms to promote not just Sandman,
00:18:15but to promote horse racing?
00:18:17Yeah, so we're actually starting to do that now with Sandman.
00:18:21A lot of people have seen the content I've been putting out with them.
00:18:25And really just getting back in the barns.
00:18:27A lot of people want to see everything about horse racing, from what they eat, to how they
00:18:33get bathed, to where they sleep.
00:18:37It's really incredible how interested people are in the A to Z care of these horses.
00:18:43Now we're starting to reach out and do press and interviews with amazing people like yourself,
00:18:48and collaborating with Gen Z and some of the younger millennials that are on TikTok.
00:18:55So we're working on doing the Ice Bucket Challenge this weekend, if you're familiar with that.
00:19:02Sandman and I are going to get in.
00:19:04We're starting to do some charity and some donating for the aftercare of Thoroughbreds
00:19:09and using my leverage and social media to promote that.
00:19:13We have some cool things in the works.
00:19:15We have some things we've already done.
00:19:17I want to be as useful as possible to the sport.
00:19:21Well, Griffin, most people, I think I'm pretty accurate in saying this, who are involved
00:19:27in Thoroughbred racing in any way were either born into it from a family that was involved
00:19:32in the sport, or they had a grandfather or a father or an uncle or a brother that took
00:19:37them to the races at an early age and got them interested.
00:19:41Where are you from?
00:19:42And did you have any of that growing up?
00:19:45Yeah, for sure.
00:19:47I definitely have a background.
00:19:48I'm from central Illinois, right on the border of Illinois and Indiana.
00:19:53So I'm only three hours from Churchill Downs.
00:19:57So for me growing up, it was mostly farm animals.
00:20:01I grew up baling so much hay, I couldn't even tell you that it went to feeding more of the
00:20:074-H ponies and some of the barrel horses and things like that.
00:20:11But definitely not the level of Thoroughbreds and horse racing.
00:20:15You're definitely right.
00:20:16And it was actually something for me, I guess it was spoken about in a way that was almost
00:20:21unattainable unless you were born into it.
00:20:25And I think that with this new social media wave, it's kind of shown people that there's
00:20:30more than just having a multi-million dollar upbringing to get you into this sport now.
00:20:36So the answer is yes, I had some, but it still seemed pretty unattainable until recently
00:20:44that I could even have a Thoroughbred or any skin in the game of horse racing.
00:20:49But you can actually ride.
00:20:51I saw a picture of you on Mark Cassie's pony and I'm like, yeah, it doesn't look like he
00:20:56just hopped up there.
00:20:57You look like you can ride.
00:20:59Yeah, it's funny.
00:21:01So actually, my girlfriend, Macy, her family growing up, they actually bred horses.
00:21:07So they have a whole farm back in Indiana.
00:21:09I think there's eight horses now.
00:21:11So we also have those that we ride around, you know, just some fat grazing ponies that
00:21:17are super, super tame and, you know, move about five miles an hour.
00:21:23So I've got one quick question.
00:21:25How does a kid from Illinois get 9.7 million TikTok followers?
00:21:33Like how did you start?
00:21:34Were you a nurse?
00:21:35Someone said that you were in nursing school.
00:21:38Yeah, I was.
00:21:39I was in college, actually, I was it was my junior year and I just had a friend.
00:21:44He said, hey, you can post online and make money.
00:21:47You know, at the time I was flat broke.
00:21:49So I heard money and internet, I was like, OK, I can I can make some videos I can I can
00:21:55do that.
00:21:56So, yeah, it was just me in class, the life of a nursing student, just kind of going throughout
00:22:02my day.
00:22:03And it really wasn't anything special.
00:22:05I think it was just humility and showing people my struggles and kind of what it was like
00:22:10to be in the medical field.
00:22:12And that's where it all started.
00:22:14And I ended up pivoting and moving to L.A. for a bit and doing the whole influencer life.
00:22:20So, you know, I've lived a few lives in the past five or six years.
00:22:24Griffin, we have an expression in horse racing, they call it derby fever.
00:22:29And I don't think I need to explain to you really what that means.
00:22:32But do you have derby fever yet?
00:22:34And how bad a case of it do you have?
00:22:37Yeah, I would say that I've had derby fever for a few months now.
00:22:42It's just something that obviously, you know, I've seen me in this progress in his career.
00:22:46It's, you know, the Kentucky Derby is the holy grail for anyone in the Midwest, especially.
00:22:52And I'm just through the roof.
00:22:54I mean, I can't even believe whenever I say that I'm going to be participating in the
00:22:59Kentucky Derby.
00:23:01It's just it's surreal.
00:23:02And I mean, everyone that goes to it, that from the outfits to to the drinks, to the
00:23:07to the betting, I mean, you name it, every single piece of going into the derby for anyone
00:23:12viewing is just there's something in the air.
00:23:15And if you don't have the derby fever yet and you're going, trust me, you'll have it
00:23:19the day you show up, I promise.
00:23:22So Griffin, I can't believe I'm aging myself like this, but I've been involved with the
00:23:27sport in one way or another since the late 70s or the early 80s.
00:23:31And throughout my entire time in thoroughbred racing, it's always been said one of the challenges
00:23:37in the sport is how to attract young people to be interested.
00:23:42And it seems like it's getting worse and worse and worse in that regard as as we've
00:23:47gone on.
00:23:48Now, what do you see as the biggest challenges in getting other people like you involved
00:23:55in the sport?
00:23:56Yeah, thanks for that question.
00:23:58It's actually probably my biggest passion in the sport right now is getting my generation
00:24:03involved.
00:24:05And I think that just this conversation we're having now is the perfect indicator that people
00:24:10recognize that and it's starting to change.
00:24:13I think that, you know, me getting a piece of Sandman was was just, you know, kind of
00:24:19a gift from from the God somewhere, you know, just saying, hey, it's time to bring people
00:24:26to the sport.
00:24:27And I think, you know, you take a perfect blend of social media and traditional entertainment
00:24:34and media coverage like yourself.
00:24:37And if you can connect those two and find the synergy between, you know, finding the
00:24:42people that have the power in the sport and are already traditionally in it and ingrained
00:24:46into it and pairing up with new people, newcomers that are interested and can give a new perspective
00:24:52and show people that it's possible to get in and not just have a legacy and combining
00:24:58those two has been working really good.
00:25:00I think that, you know, we're actually doing it on this interview as we're talking about
00:25:05it right now and just and just getting that out to the public.
00:25:09What's your sense?
00:25:10Oh, go ahead.
00:25:11I'm just going to ask, what's your sense of how your followers are reacting to you and
00:25:17Sandman and the Kentucky Derby?
00:25:20Yeah, you know, that's another piece, I think, with horse racing.
00:25:24I say this all the time.
00:25:25It's the easiest sport in the world to sell.
00:25:28I mean, it's obviously the oldest sport in America for a reason.
00:25:32We're talking 151 years of the Kentucky Derby alone this year, you know, and you're curating
00:25:39culture with horse racing.
00:25:40You have the amazing outfits and the class and respect that comes with it.
00:25:44There's a thumbs up, you know, once again, you have the drinks, you have the, you know,
00:25:49the gambling and putting in the money aspect of it and, you know, you pair that with the
00:25:54love of horses.
00:25:55I mean, horses have been carrying humans throughout time, through war, through work.
00:26:00I mean, we've built our whole entire civilization on horses, so, you know, it's an easy sell.
00:26:07It really is, you know, to get people to love this sport, it's just, it needs presented
00:26:12to them in a way that seems obtainable and digestible and with open arms from the community
00:26:18that's in it.
00:26:19And like I said, I really think it's happening right now as we speak in that, you know, the
00:26:25industry's starting to recognize that in order to expand, they're going to have to open their
00:26:29arms and really show people what this sport has to offer.
00:26:33What would be your pitch to say someone that's all in love with PETA or says it's cruel,
00:26:39like how do you sway those people?
00:26:41Because a lot of the younger generation are like, oh, well, it's the sport of kings and
00:26:45it's cruel and it's this and it's that, like, how do you sell that?
00:26:49Yeah, that's a, that's another great question, right?
00:26:52Because it's something I knew of coming into this, you know, I knew that people had, some
00:26:56people had a negative outlook and had some bad experiences, which, you know, that happens
00:27:01in any industry.
00:27:02There's good and bad everywhere.
00:27:04There's obviously been bad in horse racing throughout time.
00:27:08You know, there's, there's obviously been some horses that were mistreated and things,
00:27:12but it's, it's changed so much.
00:27:14You know, I can, I can see it as soon as I walk into these barns, you know, and the more
00:27:19virality, the more, you know, the more spectics and just virality you have around horse racing,
00:27:27the better that's going to get, you know, the more that we can put this on social media,
00:27:31the more eyeballs it has, the more attention it gets in the media and the more people are
00:27:35held accountable.
00:27:36And I think, you know, using that to promote the aftercare, educate people on how these
00:27:41horses are retrained, how well they're taken care of in these retraining facilities and
00:27:46just showing, you know, what, what's the post season look like?
00:27:49That's what I want to show on my socials, right?
00:27:51I mean, I know seeing man is having an amazing, you know, show out in his career right now,
00:27:56but even when the, when the year wraps up, it's, it's showing that and, you know, showing
00:28:01that in the barns and showing the behind the scenes and doing all the fun stuff that, you
00:28:05know, that's what it takes to get these horses here.
00:28:07And that's, that's what people want to see.
00:28:09And that's what the sport needs.
00:28:10Has he bitten you yet?
00:28:13Pardon?
00:28:14Has he bitten you yet?
00:28:15No, no.
00:28:16He is a little bit fired up right now.
00:28:18Apparently earlier in his, in his career, he was a lot more playful and, and right now
00:28:24he's, he's locked in.
00:28:26I mean, if you bring the treats out, he's ready to eat and he's ready to run.
00:28:30So it's been fun to see him grow up.
00:28:33He's grown up a lot, you know, from the rebel states, even to now, I mean, it's like night
00:28:37and day difference.
00:28:38Do you like to bet?
00:28:41And would you, are you going to tell your, all your people that follow you that Sandman
00:28:46is a good bet on, on the Kentucky Derby day?
00:28:51You know, I have some like weird juju, I guess, uh, about betting.
00:28:55I actually have never bet on Sandman.
00:28:58I guess I did for his first race ever for, uh, for like a social media thing.
00:29:02And ever since then I'm like, yeah, I'm hands off.
00:29:06As far as my followers, I love to see people support.
00:29:09I mean, anyone that has a little bit of cash laying around and can make a safe bet and
00:29:14some money that, you know, they don't, uh, they're not gonna, you know, need the next
00:29:18day to eat.
00:29:19I would say, you know, definitely put in a bet.
00:29:22I think he's a fun horse to watch, obviously he's a great closer.
00:29:27And for anyone watching, it's just that adrenaline rush of him coming out the gate, you know,
00:29:31he's going to be mid pack to sitting back a little bit and he's going to come out strong
00:29:35in the end.
00:29:36So for anyone that wants a nicer adrenaline rush, definitely put in a little bet on Sandman
00:29:41and let it ride.
00:29:43And by the way, thanks for teaching us a little influencer lingo, virality has been
00:29:48going viral.
00:29:49Yeah.
00:29:50Yeah.
00:29:51Virality.
00:29:52As in, you know, uh, how many, how many eyeballs and how many views can you get on, on a piece
00:29:57of content?
00:29:58All right.
00:29:59What are you wearing?
00:30:00What are you wearing to the Derby?
00:30:02Oh, Oh, I thought you meant my custom Sandman t-shirt.
00:30:07That's cool.
00:30:08What kind of suit are you wearing to the Derby?
00:30:09Yeah.
00:30:10I'm actually working on making a custom Sandman suit.
00:30:13So I got some patches, uh, and some stuff I'm going to get sewn on to my suit.
00:30:18So if you see me on Derby day, you'll, you'll see me with, uh, with a little Sandman suit
00:30:23on.
00:30:24That's so cool.
00:30:25I got to log into TikTok.
00:30:26Hang on just a second.
00:30:27Yeah.
00:30:28Yeah.
00:30:29Did you watch the Netflix thing last night?
00:30:32Yesterday?
00:30:33Yeah.
00:30:34I, uh, I've been watching it.
00:30:35Uh, first two episodes.
00:30:36Phenomenal.
00:30:37Um, you know, I think it's, once again, I think it's what the sport needs, uh, reaching
00:30:43out and getting, you know, the only way you can get a new audience is by, you know, reaching
00:30:47out.
00:30:48And I think that, you know, obviously we saw with F1, you know, their documentary and their
00:30:52series completely changed the sport.
00:30:54Um, and I think right now with the Netflix series, as long as, you know, once again,
00:30:59we keep doing things like this, where we reach out to other audiences and expand, I think
00:31:03it's going to do great things and bring a lot of new people.
00:31:06It's showing them, you know, the show's a little bit more of like the, the Kardashian
00:31:11style of it.
00:31:12Right.
00:31:13You know, it's a little bit of the, the fancy, which is honestly, it's fun.
00:31:17Like that's, that's why, uh, that's the side of the sport that makes it fun.
00:31:21People can see the dynamics between, you know, it's interesting because I always say horse
00:31:26racing is kind of like a melting pot.
00:31:28You have anywhere from multi-billionaires all across from their own sports teams or
00:31:34their own burger joints, or, you know, it's just crazy to see all those people together.
00:31:38And I think that, um, that's a really cool aspect of the sport also, you know, with the
00:31:43jockeys and kind of seeing how the inner works are between the athletes is cool too.
00:31:47So, um, to answer it in a nutshell, I love it.
00:31:52Ivor has probably got a suit you could borrow.
00:31:55You know that, right?
00:31:56I, you know, I, I was thinking that you're probably right.
00:32:00Oh, don't do it.
00:32:02Don't do it, Griffin.
00:32:06All right.
00:32:07I'm going to, I think if Randy says so, I'm going to have to definitely, uh, I'll hold
00:32:11back.
00:32:14Well, Griffin Johnson, thank you so much.
00:32:16That was really a breath of fresh air.
00:32:18Thank you on behalf of all the sport for your efforts to bring in a new generation and the
00:32:22new eyeballs.
00:32:24Good luck to Sandman and the Kentucky Derby.
00:32:27Thank you very much.
00:32:28And, uh, once again, thank you guys for your time.
00:32:30Uh, I really appreciate, you know, you guys taking a chance on a young buck, trying to
00:32:36bring some new people in.
00:32:37So thank you guys as always, and, uh, really look forward to the Derby.
00:32:41Hopefully we can get a win here.
00:32:43Okay.
00:32:44Thanks Griffin.
00:32:45Good luck.
00:32:46Griffin Johnson's appearance as our guest of the week was brought to you by Gainesway,
00:32:50home of America's most dominant sire, Tappet.
00:32:53As usual, Tappet is in the news thanks to his colt Sandman among the leading contenders
00:32:59in the Kentucky Derby.
00:33:00It would be Tappet's first Derby winner.
00:33:03That's about the only thing Tappet hasn't done in the breeding shed.
00:33:06He sired 33 grade one winners, 40 yearlings to bring $1 million or more at auction.
00:33:12He had the $1 million session topper at the OBS spring sale and Tappet's progeny have
00:33:18earned over $216 million on the racetrack.
00:33:22The all time record for a North American sire.
00:33:25Gainesway power, passion, performance.
00:34:22Native Trail had 150 in-foal mares from his first crop, 37 foals as siblings to black
00:34:36type horses, notably to five group one winners, performers and green two winners, term of
00:34:42endearment, Indy Angel, Tactical and Ibiza, as well as to Guyatt's promising group three
00:34:49place Stanhope Gardens.
00:34:51Over 115 mares in his first books have a stakes performing sibling, 40 of whom reached group
00:34:58one level, including Pretty Pollyanna, Batteal, Kind of Blue, Coronet and Timepiece.
00:35:06And if that's not enough, over 60 mares have a stakes performing dam themselves, 44 of
00:35:12them won or placed at group level.
00:35:15Native Trail was the undefeated European champion at two and the classic winning miler at three.
00:35:21He has covered over 100 mares in 2025 already, and he stands at Darley's Dalham Hall stud
00:35:27for a mere 16,000 euros.
00:35:31Now we welcome in Emma Berry, the international and European editor for the Thoroughbred Daily
00:35:36News.
00:35:37Lots to go over about the classic races coming up in Europe right around the same time, of
00:35:42course, as our Cripple Crown races are getting going.
00:35:45So the 2000 guineas and the 1000 guineas take place on Saturday and Sunday of Kentucky Derby
00:35:50weekend.
00:35:51Emma, let's first take a look at the Colts and how the likely field is shaping up for
00:35:55that race.
00:35:56Yeah, well, after last week's Craven Stakes, one of the key guineas trials, we've got we've
00:36:02got a clear front runner, certainly in the betting anyway, in Juddmont's Field of Gold.
00:36:08He's a Colt by Kingman and usually not bred by Juddmont, he's actually bred by Enora and
00:36:13Bobby Donworth around Hillstead in Ireland, and he's from a great family that will translate
00:36:17across the Atlantic as well, because he's from the family of Serena Song.
00:36:22It's a family which the Donworths have done terrifically well with, and Juddmont bought
00:36:27him as a foal and he won the Craven so well, he went shot straight to the head of the betting
00:36:32market.
00:36:33A great big, powerful, great Colt.
00:36:35So I think everyone's looking forward to seeing him.
00:36:38Juddmont could even be represented by up to three runners in the guineas, although I think
00:36:42they're going to spread their Colts out a little bit between Newmarket and France and
00:36:47Ireland as we go along.
00:36:49But they also have John Quill in the Reckoning, a Colt from Frankel's family, and also Cosmic
00:36:55Year, who's been a very exciting horse for Harry Charlton in his early years as a trainer,
00:37:00having succeeded his father Roger.
00:37:02So yeah, certainly in the Juddmont camp, there's a lot of excitement.
00:37:07But we haven't yet seen on the race course this year, Godolphin's Shadow of Light, who
00:37:11was the champion two-year-old last year, he won the Group One Middle Park and the Group
00:37:15One Dewhurst within a fortnight of each other, and has just been seen out on the race course
00:37:20on a gallop last week, looking very fit and well, kind of a compact, almost a sprinting
00:37:26looking type of horse.
00:37:28Charlie Appleby is hoping very much that he'll see out the mile, and he also has the justified
00:37:35Colt Ruling Court in the race, who's looking a little bit more ahead to the Derby a month
00:37:40after the Guineas, but will be starting off his British campaign, having won the Jumeirah
00:37:462000 Guineas in Maydan, with a run in the 2000 Guineas.
00:37:49So yeah, there's plenty to keep an eye on.
00:37:52We haven't even seen the potential Bally Doyle Colts for this race in action yet either this
00:37:57year.
00:37:58That's Twain, who seems to be Aidan O'Brien's key representative at Newmarket, Wooden Basset
00:38:03Colt, who was a Group One winner last year, over a mile, and it looks like they'll probably
00:38:08be bringing at least Expanded as well to Newmarket, with then Henri Matisse, the Reader's
00:38:13Cup Juvenile Turf winner of last year, going more likely to France the week after the British
00:38:21Guineas for the French Guineas.
00:38:22Well, I'll take the big grey horse, the Jummont horse, because he looks fantastic winning
00:38:28the Craven, but never mind the boys, what about the fillies?
00:38:31Who looks good in the 1000 Guineas?
00:38:34The 1000 Guineas could be potentially one of the races of the season, as long as Lake
00:38:38Victoria does actually turn up.
00:38:40A few weeks ago, there was some hesitation from Aidan O'Brien as to whether she'd be
00:38:44ready for Newmarket.
00:38:46He seemed a little bit more optimistic last week at a press morning, so let's hope we
00:38:50see her.
00:38:51She was fabulous last year, unbeaten, and I saw her last week and she looks fantastic.
00:38:58She's a really elegant filly, who hopefully we'll see come back and do some more of her
00:39:03stuff this year.
00:39:04But she's going to have to go up against Good Orphan's very exciting filly, Desert Flower,
00:39:10who was a Group 1 winner here last year in Newmarket.
00:39:14She was out the same morning as Shadow of Light, having a race against Gallop, and I
00:39:19have to say she looked sensational coming up the hill.
00:39:22It's a tricky track, Newmarket has the dip a little bit from home.
00:39:27She came through the dip no problem and up the hill under William Buick, and she's a
00:39:32very tall, quite leggy filly, but handled the undulations there very well.
00:39:36And I mean, it could potentially be a really thrilling clash on the Sunday of that weekend.
00:39:42So both the French skinnies take place the following weekend, who should we be looking
00:39:47for out at Longchamp?
00:39:49Well, we saw again during one of the Newmarket trials last week, John Gosden and Thady Gosden,
00:39:55actually, they won both the trials with Field of Gold and then Zanzun won the Nell Gwynn,
00:40:00another jumbo filly, and she is going straight to France.
00:40:04Apparently, she's not entered the Newmarket.
00:40:07So she's going to be one of the favorites there in the fillies race, and she'll be taking
00:40:11on Zaragana, who is the Aga Khan's very smart filly, just touched off last year by Vertical
00:40:19Blue, her stablemate in the Prix Marcel Boussac.
00:40:22Vertical Blue sold for millions at Tassels in December to Jon Stewart, who's an increasingly
00:40:28international owner.
00:40:30He's got a runner this Sunday, actually, in Hong Kong.
00:40:32Goliath is up in a group one, and he could have a French guineas runner in Vertical Blue,
00:40:38who takes on Zaragana again.
00:40:40Zaragana carries the hopes of the Aga Khan starts, obviously, in a sad year.
00:40:45Having lost the Aga Khan back in February, but she's, you know, she's terrifically well-bred
00:40:50filly as most of them, you know, all of their horses are really.
00:40:53She's from the family of Zarqava, who's, you know, was sensational in her classic season.
00:40:58So, yeah, that's another potentially very exciting race.
00:41:03And as I think I mentioned, the colts for the French 2000 guineas could centre around
00:41:09Bally Doyle again with, you know, Henri Matisse, the British Cup Juvenile Turf winner, likely
00:41:14to be heading there, and Camille Pissarro, who was the Prix Jean-Luc Lagardère winner
00:41:18of last year.
00:41:19That seems to be their option to go to France, although they are still in the new market
00:41:24guineas.
00:41:26You know, in the next week, what Aidan O'Brien decides to do, it's also worth looking out
00:41:30for Rashabar as well in the French guineas.
00:41:32He was last year's Coventry Stakes winner for Brian Meehan, runs in those famous Robert
00:41:36Sankster silks.
00:41:37There's going to be strong international opposition going over to Longchamp for that weekend of
00:41:44the French colts.
00:41:45The Aga Khan also has a strong, the Aga Khan starts, I should say, also has a strong contender
00:41:50in Bridalry.
00:41:51So, yeah, it's going to be interesting over the next few weeks to see who actually goes
00:41:56where.
00:41:57But those are like the main contenders anyway for the next few classic weekends here.
00:42:02All right.
00:42:03That's News You Can Use brought to you by Darley Europe.
00:42:06Emma, thanks so much for filling us in.
00:42:08Exciting time of racing on both sides of the Atlantic.
00:42:11We'll catch up with you again soon.
00:42:12Will do.
00:42:14Well, gang, why don't we save our derby picks for next week, because that'll give us plenty
00:42:17of time to really zero in on everything and perhaps change our minds.
00:42:21I might change my mind about five times between now and Kentucky Derby Day when they go into
00:42:25the gate.
00:42:26So I want to take a little bit different take on this.
00:42:29Who is your live long shot?
00:42:31Let's go through that first.
00:42:33And then who is your throwout horse in here?
00:42:36And your throwout can't be the 60 to one.
00:42:38It needs to be a horse that's going to get a reasonable amount of play.
00:42:42So I will start with my live long shot, which is publisher.
00:42:46Yes, I am giving a chance to a maiden in the Kentucky Derby, but this is no ordinary maiden.
00:42:52He just ran second behind Sandman in the Arkansas Derby.
00:42:55And I like Sandman quite a bit.
00:42:57He gets Irada Ortiz aboard.
00:42:59He's a closer, which looks at this point, the running style that is going to be most
00:43:07successful in the Kentucky Derby.
00:43:10And then with Steve Asmussen, is the glass half empty or is it half full?
00:43:14He's 0 for 26 in the Kentucky Derby.
00:43:16I'll say it's half full because he's too good of a trainer for this to continue on.
00:43:21He's due to win the race a couple of times, maybe this year.
00:43:23So my long shot play, publisher, the maiden.
00:43:28He also had a really good workout the other day.
00:43:30He outworked his stable mate Tiztastic and looked pretty good doing it.
00:43:34I think he's got a big shot at a good price.
00:43:36Mine is grande.
00:43:37I think he'll probably be 12 or 15 to one.
00:43:41I loved his second place finish in the Wood Memorial behind Rodriguez, really wide going
00:43:46into and around the first turn, a little bit wide around the second turn pace wasn't sizzling
00:43:51and he was trying to come from off the pace and run down Rodriguez.
00:43:55And I think he'll be in that middle flight along with journalism to be the first ones
00:44:00to get to the fading front runners, which I think will be fading.
00:44:04So I think the grande is a decent shot at a price.
00:44:08Bill stole my thunder, but I don't think publisher is going to be that much of a long shot.
00:44:13Not off that work he just had at Churchill Downs when he outworked his stable mate very
00:44:18easily.
00:44:19He gets over that strip very well.
00:44:21You get Pratt off and put Irad on.
00:44:24So that's lateral to me.
00:44:27I'm not sure the thinking in that whatsoever.
00:44:29So Irad was without a derby man as well, if you can believe that.
00:44:33So Pratt goes off, Irad goes on.
00:44:36So he's not going to be too much of a long shot.
00:44:39Why does nobody like Cole Battle?
00:44:43I don't, you know, he's a tough little horse.
00:44:45He always runs his race.
00:44:47I have doubts whether he wants to go a mile and a quarter.
00:44:51Yeah, I know.
00:44:52That's my only issue with him.
00:44:53I've got to put him in there as a rooting interest because that will be so cool to see
00:44:59Lonnie Briley up there.
00:45:01So I don't think publisher is going to be that much of a price.
00:45:04I tell you, you look really good as well and has looked good on the track is is Tapan
00:45:09Street.
00:45:10Correct pronunciation.
00:45:11Thank you very much, Elliot Walden.
00:45:12We can stick that video right in there of him saying Tapan like Japan.
00:45:18It is official.
00:45:19The correct pronunciation of Tapan Street or Tapan Street.
00:45:25Which is it?
00:45:26Tapan Street.
00:45:27Tapan.
00:45:28Are we sure?
00:45:29That's what Anthony Maganero called it.
00:45:31That's what we named him after.
00:45:33So that's what we're going to do.
00:45:35Tapan.
00:45:36Yeah.
00:45:37Like Japan.
00:45:38Yes.
00:45:39OK.
00:45:41All right.
00:45:42So, yeah, those will be my two.
00:45:46You asked for one.
00:45:47I gave you three.
00:45:48All right.
00:45:49Well, we got two for the price of one.
00:45:50All right.
00:45:51So who is the horse that is a live horse that you think you can throw out?
00:45:55That to me is Rodriguez, trained by Bob Baffert.
00:45:58He will be bet because he's coming off a big runaway win in the Wood Memorial.
00:46:03And people are obviously going to bet on Baffert.
00:46:05But there's two problems with this horse.
00:46:07First of all, the Wood Memorial, the jinx of Funny Side or whomever, no Wood Memorial
00:46:14winner since Fusachi Pegasus has won Wood since 2000.
00:46:19No horse that has run in the woods since 2003 has won the Derby.
00:46:24And they are 0 for 43 in the Derby.
00:46:28This race just does not produce live Derby horses.
00:46:32And it's understandable why it's now a grade two.
00:46:35It's got less money than the others.
00:46:37Horses have to ship into New York.
00:46:39Why don't they stay in Florida and Louisiana and that sort of thing?
00:46:43And also, too, and Randy talked about this last week.
00:46:46You know, there's four or five horses that look like they're going to be speeding in
00:46:49here and look like they have to be have to go for the lead.
00:46:53Rodriguez is one of them.
00:46:54If you tell me that any of these horses are going to be up front early, pace is going
00:46:58to be in the range of 46, which I think is is is probable going to be the case.
00:47:05They're not going to be there at the end.
00:47:06So sorry, Rodriguez, you're not winning.
00:47:09I can throw I can throw out half the field.
00:47:12Are you kidding?
00:47:15Because they made the gate that all winners.
00:47:17Oh, yeah.
00:47:18Well, it's true.
00:47:19True.
00:47:20But when we're talking about handicapping, I can I can literally throw out half the field.
00:47:24I mean, first of all, you got to throw out Rodriguez.
00:47:26You got to throw out Citizen Bull, in my opinion, because of the pace you got to throw out East
00:47:30Avenue, who's going to be sent for his life and it's going to be hooked up in a big speed
00:47:34duel.
00:47:35Yeah.
00:47:36Yeah.
00:47:37You got to throw out Owen Almighty.
00:47:38He's going to be up there winging it on the front end.
00:47:39You got to throw out admired Daytona.
00:47:40He's going to be up there on the lead.
00:47:41You got to throw out Neo Equus if he draws in.
00:47:44He's going to be up there.
00:47:45The pace is going to be toxic.
00:47:47And then Burnham Square, who's the number one point getter going into the Kentucky Derby.
00:47:52I mean, I'd love to own him, absolutely.
00:47:56But he's life and death to get up to beat East Avenue in the bluegrass in a slow number.
00:48:03I'm throwing him, too.
00:48:04I mean, I throw out a lot of them in here.
00:48:06It's only room for a top five.
00:48:08East Avenue is a definite toss for me, and he'll take some money purely on how good he
00:48:13looks on the racetrack because he's a big, beautiful horse.
00:48:16You can say that he needed his last stop because he hasn't picked up his feet in any of his
00:48:22last two starts.
00:48:23So he's definitely going to take my money.
00:48:25But there's no way he can be sent like he was sent and be around at the end.
00:48:31The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association,
00:48:36known to most as the PHBA, because we Americans love our acronyms and don't look now.
00:48:41But a Pennsylvania bred has a serious chance to win the Kentucky Oaks.
00:48:46Simply joking.
00:48:47Worked five furlongs at Churchill Lounge Saturday in company with Drexel Hill, both trained
00:48:51by Whit Beckman.
00:48:52The Oaks Phillies went fifty eight point four zero, not only faster than other Oaks and
00:48:59Derby contenders that morning, but the fastest of fifty six works at that distance for Pennsylvania
00:49:05breds have won the Kentucky Oaks over the years.
00:49:07Most recently, Princess of Silmar back in 2013.
00:49:11Also Saturday at Laurel for Harp and Whitty finished one, two and the one hundred thousand
00:49:17dollar King T. Leatherberry steaks for a P.A.
00:49:20Bread.
00:49:21Exacto for Harp is the son of Wigelia and his full sister, Disco Evo, won last week's
00:49:27Promenade of Steaks.
00:49:29To learn more about racing your own Pennsylvania bred, check out the twenty twenty five stallion
00:49:33and boarding farm directory online at PA bread dot com or you can call six one zero four
00:49:41four ten fifty.
00:49:42P.A.
00:49:43Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:49:49It's excitement at every step.
00:49:52Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
00:49:56On average for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over twenty eight million a year in breeders
00:50:01awards, restricted races and owner bonuses.
00:50:04Plus P.A.
00:50:05Bread shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:50:07Three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners.
00:50:10Learn more at P.A.
00:50:11Bread dot com.
00:50:13In this week's edition of First Things First, we decided that California has a strong hand
00:50:18towards the road to the Kentucky Derby.
00:50:20So I caught up with the very patient, pun intended, John Sheriff's Hall of Famer Bob
00:50:26Batford, along with Michael McCarthy, to talk about their charges headed to Kentucky.
00:50:37You know, I thought Santa Anita Derby Day, a lot going on, a lot of people, a lot of
00:50:40noise.
00:50:41I thought he handled himself well, got a little wound up just before they called riders up.
00:50:47But, you know, we'll have plenty of time to work on that once we get to Kentucky.
00:50:51All right.
00:50:53And obviously, that wasn't the trip he wanted in the Santa Anita Derby.
00:50:58How happy were you with the way he actually handled that?
00:51:00Yeah, I thought that was great.
00:51:02I was grateful to see some horses kind of separate themselves and certainly happened
00:51:07that that happened.
00:51:08The three eighths pole instead of the quarter pole might have been a different story altogether.
00:51:11But he regrouped, was able to kind of find a clear path through the land and get through
00:51:16the gears and gallop out well.
00:51:20We're either shipping on, I think we're going on the 24th.
00:51:24That was the, that was the plan.
00:51:26I said it would be OK to move him up a day.
00:51:30So we get there a little earlier, but I don't know if that's going to happen.
00:51:33But we'll go over there and see what happens.
00:51:35What about his walk yesterday?
00:51:37I thought his work was great.
00:51:39Yeah, he was a nice long seven eighths, relaxed Hector Barrios worked him really well.
00:51:48He finished very strongly and looked good doing it.
00:51:52He was very light on his feet.
00:51:53Take me through the walks on both of you guys.
00:51:56Citizen Bull, I worked, he worked well.
00:51:59I actually let him sit behind a horse and because he's the kind of horse that once he
00:52:05gets in front, he lags a little bit.
00:52:08He waits on his company, but he actually, you know, I think Martine said he relaxed
00:52:15well behind him.
00:52:16I gave the horse plenty of, you know, distance because usually he can get to him really quick.
00:52:21But I like the way he worked.
00:52:22I think he's, he's tightening up now.
00:52:24He was a little heavy for the Santa Anita Derby and Rodriguez.
00:52:29I was looking for just a maintenance type of work.
00:52:31He, you know, he ran a big race, shipped to New York, came back.
00:52:35He's a lighter frame kind of horse, moves beautifully.
00:52:39I just wanted to get a nice, you know, steady little work into him, finished up well.
00:52:44Very happy the way it went, you know, going in, we know their style, whether they get
00:52:48it or not.
00:52:49The trip, the trip is going to be so important, 20 horses, you know, it's hard.
00:52:53All I can do is focus on just getting them there, feeling, you know, keeping healthy,
00:52:59keeping happy and the rest, the gate's open.
00:53:02You don't know what's going to happen.
00:53:09Thanks so much for those guys.
00:53:11I do want to remind you that racing does continue at Santa Anita on Friday, one o'clock post.
00:53:16We do have a pick six carry over over 68,000 in the kitty that will carry forward in the
00:53:21pick six.
00:53:22So do join us on Friday for Friday, Saturday and Sunday racing.
00:53:27Well, there's also a lot of news made off the track last week, particularly at the OBS
00:53:33April sale, where Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, showed up unprompted.
00:53:38We did not know what was going to happen and gave a speech in support of the effort
00:53:45to block decoupling.
00:53:47And here's what he had to say.
00:53:49He says, you can count on me as one that is not going to look favorably on legislation
00:53:53that is going to decimate any of our signature industries.
00:53:57I just try not to put my finger in the wind, just do what's right.
00:54:00But on this issue with the horses, it seems to me that we have proposals that will have
00:54:04the effect of harming the industry here in Florida to basically benefit one special interest
00:54:10read into that building the Stronach.
00:54:12That's not how you do good policy, major, major victory for the horsemen, for the people
00:54:18are fighting to keep Gulfstream Park from shutting down.
00:54:22Randy, what else did you take from this?
00:54:25Well, as we mentioned, I think last week, DeSantis was about the last hope, I think,
00:54:32that the horsemen had to try to block decoupling.
00:54:35And maybe all those things that DeSantis said were, you know, were his actual beliefs about
00:54:43the situation right now with the horsemen and Belinda Stronach and Gulfstream Park.
00:54:48But also, as we know, money talks in politics.
00:54:53And I think, Bill, you're the one we talked about this before we started recording this.
00:54:58There is a financial connection of sorts between Mike Rapolle, who was next to DeSantis
00:55:05during the conversation at OBS, and DeSantis, going back to when DeSantis was running for
00:55:12president against Donald Trump for the Republican nomination.
00:55:15I think you mentioned an $850,000 campaign contribution by Mike Rapolle.
00:55:20So money often talks in politics as well.
00:55:25And that might have a little something to do with DeSantis' stance on this situation.
00:55:32I'm sure it has a lot to do with it, but it's OK.
00:55:35I mean, that's our system.
00:55:37It allows for these things.
00:55:38It's perfectly legal.
00:55:40And in this case, it's likely benefit horse racing.
00:55:43So, you know, we're totally OK with that.
00:55:47Now, the next date that matters is May 2nd.
00:55:51That's when the current legislative session in Florida expires.
00:55:55And if they don't get anything done by May 2nd, that means that's put off until January
00:56:00of next year when they start all along.
00:56:03I had thought that the with DeSantis saying this, that was the pretty much game set match.
00:56:10It's over.
00:56:11How could how could the Stronach group possibly try to win over something where the governor
00:56:15says I'm vetoing it?
00:56:17But I talked to a lot of people yesterday who were involved in this story, and I think
00:56:21maybe they're just being cautious, but they're saying, you know, politics is funny business.
00:56:26And, you know, we're not going to count our chickens until they're hatched.
00:56:28And we'll see what happens down the future.
00:56:31A lot of them were still talking about the possibilities of having racing in a different
00:56:36venue, you know, maybe at Ocala, maybe at Hialeah, maybe do something to bump up the
00:56:41purses at Tampa Bay Downs.
00:56:43So they weren't really waving the flag in celebration yet.
00:56:48But it was a very, very good week for decoupling.
00:56:51And I can say this much.
00:56:54They had thought that this was going to happen right away and that they were going to be
00:56:58kicked out of there originally in three years.
00:57:01This thing's going to drag on for a while, no doubt about it, Randy.
00:57:04And that in and of itself is good news.
00:57:06Yeah.
00:57:07I mean, in the aftermath of DeSantis's comments at OBS, I think it was Mike Rapoli himself
00:57:12commented that this makes decoupling effectively dead.
00:57:17I think that some of the other horsemen you talked to probably didn't want to come across
00:57:20as being that overconfident, given what we know about the mercurial nature of politics.
00:57:26What confuses me, though, about the whole thing, Bill, is this in no way, even if DeSantis
00:57:34vetoes the decoupling legislation, it in no way, in any way, guarantees the ultimate survival
00:57:43of Gulfstream Park as the racetrack, the major racetrack in the South Florida area.
00:57:51We don't know where Belinda Stronach is going to stand on this.
00:57:56If she's just going to say, that's it, okay, I'm done.
00:58:00I'm out.
00:58:01I'm selling.
00:58:02Closing down.
00:58:03That's unlikely, I think, but we don't know the situation.
00:58:09I also don't understand part of the negotiation process, the way I understand it, was that
00:58:20the decoupling bill was amended to include a seven-year guarantee of racing at Gulfstream
00:58:27Park.
00:58:28The horsemen have been talking all along, we just need more time.
00:58:32We didn't have time to prepare for this.
00:58:33We need more time to plot the ultimate destination of major thoroughbred racing in the South
00:58:43Florida area.
00:58:44Seven years would have seemed to be enough there.
00:58:48I don't know what they think the end game is going to be, but certainly, the defeat
00:58:55of decoupling, if that's what happens, if DeSantis vetoes it, is not nearly going to
00:59:00be the end of the saga here with Gulfstream Park and the horsemen.
00:59:05No, I totally agree with you.
00:59:06I asked that very question.
00:59:08I spoke to four people that are on the committee that are leading the charge against this.
00:59:13Basically, what's going to stop Belinda, if she wants to, from just shutting the place
00:59:17down and then cashing in on the real estate value?
00:59:22We keep hearing this number.
00:59:23I have no idea if it's accurate or not, but we keep hearing this $1 billion to $2 billion
00:59:27number.
00:59:28I don't know if she's going to get $2 billion for the property.
00:59:32I think everybody's maybe a little careful when I ask that question.
00:59:37A lot of them try to argue why it wouldn't make good business sense because they'd have
00:59:41to shut down the slots right away, which they get $39 million from each year.
00:59:47I'm sure in the back of their minds, that's one of the reasons why they're still talking
00:59:51about maybe running someday at Ocala or someday at a brand new racetrack.
00:59:59That's up to Belinda Stornick and Belinda Stornick alone.
01:00:01No one has the power or the right to stop her from selling that property.
01:00:05I'm with you, Randy.
01:00:06I still think that's the biggest hurdle that they're going to have or the biggest fear
01:00:10that they should have.
01:00:13To each one said, look, right now, all we care about is stopping the decoupling bill,
01:00:19getting it defeated.
01:00:20That's our entire mission.
01:00:22When that mission is completed, we'll move on to other things.
01:00:26Presumably, this will be among the other things they'll move on to.
01:00:29But it was a good week.
01:00:30They're doing great work up there.
01:00:32Damon Thayer, who was so well known for helping horse racing in Kentucky when he was part
01:00:37of the legislature there, is sort of spearheading the effort.
01:00:40And you know, it's the game's not over, but they went up three nothing in the fourth inning.
01:00:46The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by First TV.
01:00:49Earlier in the show on First Things First, we talked to trainer Michael McCarthy about
01:00:53the Derby favorite, journalism.
01:00:56Here's his workout from Saturday.
01:00:58That's journalism on the outside in the light gray jacket, working four furlongs in a sizzling
01:01:0347 flat in company with Phil the Magic.
01:01:06Here's what Michael had to say about the work.
01:01:09Very good work the other day.
01:01:10More or less kind of what we've been seeing all along.
01:01:12Final quarter, 23 and 2, wired to the 7.8 pole and about 12 flat.
01:01:17So very pleased with what we saw.
01:01:19He's come back here.
01:01:20He's had a good morning here.
01:01:21He will leave for Kentucky tomorrow.
01:01:26Be a smarter better with First TV.
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01:02:14And compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:02:19West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:02:21The gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:02:23Visit westpointtv.com.
01:02:24The TD and Rider's Room brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:02:30It was another banner week for West Point.
01:02:32They welcomed seven promising two-year-olds into their fold from the OBS April sale, including
01:02:39that sale topping Tis the Law Colt, plus West Point won three races nationwide on Saturday.
01:02:46One of those being the Henry S. Clark Stakes at Laurel, won by Signature, an OBS April
01:02:52graduate himself, and a son of Tappet.
01:02:55West Point and Tappet have a little thing going.
01:02:57West Point's Horse of the Year flight line, of course, was a son of Tappet, and Signature
01:03:02comes from the same female family as flight line, and as we mentioned, West Point and
01:03:07its co-owners are counting down the days to the Kentucky Derby with the Arkansas Derby
01:03:13hero, Sandman, another son of Tappet.
01:03:23Well, before we wrap the show, I want to mention that Josh Bryan died this week at age 33,
01:03:29and he had something called Golden Horse Syndrome, but he was really making the best of his life.
01:03:34He had gone through the Stable Recovery Program run by TaylorMade and had really not only
01:03:40gotten through that program in excellent shape, but was doing so well that he was hired
01:03:45by TaylorMade.
01:03:4633, obviously, much too young to go.
01:03:49Zoe, I know you knew Josh Bryan, what can you tell us about him?
01:03:52Honestly, I just read about it in the TDN, and Josh was a shining light in the thoroughbred
01:03:58industry, to be quite honest, made me shed a tear.
01:04:01Just a great young man, went through Frank Taylor's Stable Recovery Program.
01:04:07He lost both his parents as a teenager, and with the syndrome that he's had since he was
01:04:14a baby, he underwent multiple, multiple surgeries and was just about to, he was on the table
01:04:20and underwent another one to remove some bone, I believe from his tibia and put it in his
01:04:25jaw.
01:04:26Obviously, a very hard surgery to do, but nobody expected him to have such complications
01:04:31and pass away.
01:04:33So a really, really sad story.
01:04:35I know that Frank Taylor treated him like a son.
01:04:38He was one of their own, and just a great kid.
01:04:41Always met you with just a wonderful smile.
01:04:43It is truly a very, very sad day in horse racing.
01:04:47Indeed.
01:04:48So we want to thank everybody who took part in today's show.
01:04:51That's my co-host, Randy Johnson.
01:04:53Randy Johnson.
01:04:54Wow.
01:04:55Wow.
01:04:56Big brain.
01:04:57Yeah.
01:04:58Hang on.
01:04:59Here we go.
01:05:00Here we go.
01:05:01Ready?
01:05:02But you got to do it lefty.
01:05:03Oh, that's true.
01:05:04That's true.
01:05:05Yeah.
01:05:06It's a little tougher.
01:05:07Yeah.
01:05:08Okay.
01:05:09All right.
01:05:10Three, two, one.
01:05:11Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:05:13I'd like to thank my partners.
01:05:15That is Zoe Cabin and Randy Moss.
01:05:17I want to thank Emma Berry for delivering news to us from overseas.
01:05:21We also want to thank Griffin Johnson.
01:05:23What a great guest and the influencer that owns part of Sandman.
01:05:27He was a Gainesway guest of the week, and also the people that work behind the scenes
01:05:30to put it all together.
01:05:31Sue Finley, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
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