00:00We got to start with the Diddy trial because I have to tell you, Cassie Ventura testified.
00:07And if there's a word to describe the testimony the way prosecutors wanted it,
00:14I think that word is subtle. And that's not a word that generally convinces a jury.
00:21I'm actually stunned by what we've seen so far.
00:25I will say that I think her testimony has been up to this point, and she is, as we are speaking, still on the stand,
00:32but her testimony has been gripping.
00:34I think it's gripping, too.
00:35And it has been, you're right, subtle. There's been emotion, certainly, but it has not been, like, attacking Diddy.
00:45Well, and look.
00:46She's just telling the story.
00:47This case is about two things, proving force or coercion.
00:52And that's what prosecutors need to do, at least on two of the charges, to convict him.
01:00So I think this, Charles, is really interesting.
01:03This is just one exchange.
01:05Right.
01:06But I think it's, you know, it encapsulates how she felt about these freak-offs, which has become a centerpiece of the case.
01:14Which she said today on the stand that she agreed to do it.
01:19She was sort of into it at first.
01:23And then that changed when it was frequent, too frequent for her liking.
01:30And that's when things change.
01:31But there was a lot of talk about use of drugs before the freak-offs.
01:38Remember, the U.S. attorney said that he plied these unwilling participants, these women, with drugs.
01:46Which is part of the force and coercion.
01:48Right.
01:49And she said on the stand that she took molly, ecstasy, cocaine.
01:55She never slept during these freak-offs, which would last 10, 12 hours.
02:0010, 12 hours.
02:01There's one date that they mentioned on Senate.
02:03It lasted four days.
02:04Yeah.
02:04So let's get into this.
02:06So this is an exchange about the freak-offs.
02:10And again, what the prosecutors need to prove here is force or coercion.
02:15And this is what, at least for me, it really struck me.
02:18Okay.
02:19Do you, this is a prosecutor, do you recall all the freak-offs?
02:24Cassie says, that would be impossible.
02:26Prosecutor, did you want it to stop?
02:30Cassie, yes, I was humiliated.
02:32I don't have those words then.
02:34I didn't have those words then.
02:36I couldn't talk to anyone about it.
02:38And she begins to sob.
02:40The prosecutor, did you tell him you didn't want to?
02:44She answers, yes.
02:46Cassie says, I brought it up gently.
02:49I didn't want him to just do it with someone else.
02:52The freak-off.
02:53The prosecutor, were you able to express your concerns to him?
02:57The defense objects, they rephrase it, and the prosecutor says, why would you talk to him gently?
03:04And she says, I didn't want to make him angry.
03:08Right.
03:09Now, go ahead.
03:12I'll let you make your point, because I know what it is.
03:14Yeah, I mean, my point is that to convict somebody of this, you have to show, I didn't want it.
03:22He forced me.
03:23He coerced me.
03:25And, you know, she's being, I think, honest here.
03:30Yeah.
03:30And she's saying, look, I didn't want to, I did it gently because I didn't want him to do it with another woman.
03:37I guess she, you know, she was his girlfriend at the time.
03:40I didn't want to make him mad.
03:43But she's essentially saying, I was kind of backing off giving him a hard line no.
03:49Right.
03:49But that, but the part that, the last part where she says, I didn't want to, didn't want him to be angry.
03:56Remember, and I, and I know what you're going to say that, look, prosecutors need to connect these dots.
04:00But they've already heard testimony from the male dancer who said that he was present when Diddy slapped her.
04:09At the very least, he knew that, that Diddy had slapped her and that he was uncomfortable after that incident doing any more freak offs with them.
04:18So, and then there's the video, which they, which she said.
04:23The video of the freak offs.
04:24No, the, the, the hotel beating video where this was after a freak off.
04:30Even though the defense says this, the fight between them was not about the freak off or about her leaving the freak off.
04:36But still, she was at a freak off.
04:39And when she says, I didn't want him to be angry and the jury is also seeing that, to me, that plays like force.
04:47Well, I know what you're saying that she hasn't.
04:48I want to bring, I want to bring Derek in for a second because, Derek, when you say, I didn't want to make him angry, that's kind of an anticipatory statement.
04:56It's not that he got angry so I had to do it.
05:00It's in my head, did not want to make him angry so I decided to do it.
05:06That, in some ways, I'm not saying it's right at all.
05:10But legally, in my head, that may fall short of proving force or coercion.
05:16It certainly is a more difficult case than overt coercion.
05:20Holding someone at gunpoint and making them do something is certainly a more obvious example of coercion.
05:25But this sort of softer kind where she was worried about his anger, she was worried about potential blackmail.
05:30She testified that there were other videos that she was worried he might use to blackmail her.
05:34These are also forms of coercion that can be used to prove that case.
05:38That's a big deal, that if he did, and the prosecutor said this in opening statements, that they want to show that he told her that if you don't keep doing them, I'm going to release these videos of the freak-offs.
05:52That's coercion.
05:54And if that gets proved, I think his goose is cooked.
05:57How do you see this as all that different of the circumstances when Harvey Weinstein was accused of rape, when women were in rooms and felt like they couldn't leave, even though he wasn't necessarily holding them down?
06:06Those are forms of withdrawing consent and an inability to feel like you can get out of a situation.
06:10Listen, the jury could say this is clearly force and coercion.
06:14They could say that.
06:15I know they could.
06:16All I'm saying is I thought it was going to be more direct than it was.
06:22I mean, this has been a buildup for a year now.
06:25And the way the prosecutor, when he filed the case, the U.S. attorney, when he held that press conference, it felt more direct, less subtle.
06:37That it was going to be more...
06:38Less subtle.
06:39And again, the jury may well say, hey, that's enough for us.
06:43We should also say that she is still continuing to testify.
06:46We don't know what else is going to come up.
06:49But I also just got to say, like, the stories that...
06:53And this is the part where you said that it seems subtle.
06:55It's like she was sort of telling the story of how their relationship worked.
07:02Things that they did.
07:03People that they interacted with.
07:04It is...
07:05Just to hear her telling it is fascinating as a juror.
07:10I've got to imagine they are all on the edges of their seats.
07:13Suge Knight came up.
07:14Suge Knight came up in the middle of this.
07:17Right.
07:17Cassie told a story about while they were in the middle of a freak-off, a security guard came in and said,
07:23Suge Knight is down the street at a diner.
07:26And that Sean jumped up, according to Cassie, and went to leave.
07:30And she started crying and said, please don't do anything stupid.
07:34She describes another night when she was told, when they're walking into a club, to hold a gun.
07:39And she was nervous about it because they'd been doing mushrooms and they were high.
07:43And she didn't want to...
07:44I mean, it is...
07:46I want to say one other thing.
07:48A gripping tale.
07:49It's totally gripping.
07:50Start to finish.
07:51I want to say one other thing.
07:52There are two of the three main charges where you need to show force or coercion.
07:59I just don't know how the jury is going to go on that.
08:03But I will say, to me, the most damning thing is if the jury believes Diddy said to her, if you don't continue doing it, I'm going to release these freak-off videos.
08:14To me, that's just flat-out coercion.
08:18Extortion.
08:18And so, that aside, the one count of transporting a sex worker across state lines for money, that third count doesn't require prosecutors to show force or coercion.
08:34That's the count.
08:35That's just the transaction.
08:36He's going to have a problem with that count, given what we've already seen.
08:40So, to be continued.
08:43Hi, I'm Alyssa from Savannah, Georgia.
08:46Obviously, we're still in the midst of trial, but if it comes out that all the things Diddy's been accused of are true, I believe he deserves every day of prison that he gets and then some.
08:54I mean, Cassie opened the door for all potential victims of this man to feel as though they could come forward and speak about their horrific experiences.
09:00And even if she did agree to participate in the freak-offs at the beginning, the second she decided she was no longer willing to participate is the moment that things should have stopped.
09:08And to threaten and follow through with acts of violence and blackmail to try to force someone to do something that they no longer want to do is the definition of being a predator in my eyes.
09:19But all in all, I'm just hoping for peace for all the victims involved.
09:22Yeah.
09:23I mean, this is going to be...
09:25Wow.
09:25Keep in mind, I mean, she is the star witness, but this is just the first.
