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La Macedonia del Nord sceglie di schierarsi con gli Stati Uniti come “partner strategico”
euronews (in Italiano)
Segui
10/04/2025
Il ministro degli Esteri Timčo Mucunski ha dichiarato a The Europe Conversation di Euronews che la Macedonia del Nord sta dando priorità alla partnership con gli Stati Uniti, pur continuando a perseguire l’adesione all’UE.
Categoria
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00:00
My guest on the Europe Conversation this week
00:10
is Foreign Affairs Minister for North Macedonia
00:12
Timcio Macinski
00:13
he was here at NATO for the Foreign Affairs Summit
00:16
he says his country is ready to join
00:18
the European Union
00:19
but he says if Brussels doesn't act fast
00:21
Russia will fill the void
00:23
Foreign Minister Timcio Macinski
00:27
thank you very much for joining us
00:29
on the Europe Conversation
00:30
thank you very much for the opportunity
00:32
to be a guest in your studio
00:34
so I might start off with EU enlargement
00:36
for North Macedonia
00:37
I mean obviously you were one of the first
00:39
of the Western Balkans to apply for EU membership
00:41
over 21 years ago
00:43
but it appears that
00:44
well it's not appears
00:45
North Macedonia is very much lagging behind
00:48
for a number of reasons
00:49
around rule of law
00:50
and we have these historical disputes
00:52
with Bulgaria
00:53
and also the Greek dispute
00:55
which was resolved
00:57
but it appears less so now
00:59
can you just talk us through this trajectory
01:00
for North Macedonia
01:02
so I mean without a doubt
01:04
we are one of these countries
01:05
that has been historically
01:06
since its independence
01:08
committed to EU and NATO integration
01:11
we realized our goal
01:12
of becoming a NATO member
01:13
but the key foreign policy priority
01:16
of our country
01:17
that has not been realized
01:18
is EU membership
01:19
this year is what I call
01:22
a sobering anniversary
01:23
it's 20 years since we have
01:25
gained candidate status
01:28
in the meantime
01:29
the EU has enlarged
01:31
we started this process
01:33
at one point
01:34
even going further back
01:36
to the stabilization
01:37
and an association process
01:38
together with Croatia
01:39
Croatia is now
01:40
a member of Schengen
01:42
it uses the euro as a currency
01:43
we still haven't opened
01:46
accession negotiations
01:47
of course there have been
01:49
faults by governments
01:50
in terms of lack of delivery
01:51
on some issues
01:52
without a doubt
01:53
but what is also a fact
01:55
is that we have been
01:56
a victim of
01:57
far too much
01:59
bilateralization
02:00
of the EU process
02:01
instead of focusing
02:02
on criteria
02:03
on merit based issues
02:04
focusing on bilateral issues
02:06
that have nothing to do
02:07
with the substance
02:08
of a nation's path
02:10
towards EU membership
02:10
this is a fair point
02:12
and through those countries
02:13
as I mentioned there
02:14
Bulgaria and Greece
02:15
in particular in the Bulgarian issue
02:17
because obviously these countries
02:18
have a veto anyway
02:19
so whether you like it or not
02:21
the bilateral issues
02:22
have to be resolved
02:22
in some way
02:23
will there be an inclusion
02:24
for the Bulgarian minority
02:26
within the constitution
02:28
of North Macedonia?
02:29
The issue is
02:29
much more than
02:31
the issue of inclusion
02:33
of the Bulgarian minority
02:34
and I'll try in a nutshell
02:35
to explain this to you
02:36
first of all
02:38
who has the most to gain
02:39
from our country
02:40
becoming an EU member?
02:41
Of course first
02:42
it's us
02:43
without a doubt
02:43
but secondary
02:44
it is the countries around us
02:46
that are member states
02:47
of the European Union
02:48
and here I mean
02:49
Greece and Bulgaria
02:50
directly
02:51
Now in these
02:53
more than 30 years
02:55
of an EU path
02:56
we have made
02:57
extremely difficult compromises
02:58
as I've mentioned
02:59
many times before
03:00
we've changed our flag
03:02
we've changed our currency
03:03
we've changed our constitution
03:04
several times
03:05
we've even changed
03:06
the name of our country
03:07
all with the promise
03:08
of a window of opportunity
03:10
that we've been told
03:11
existed
03:12
if we do these changes
03:13
for our path
03:15
towards the European Union
03:16
and thus
03:17
the question
03:17
and the dilemma
03:18
that we pose
03:19
to both EU institutions
03:21
as well as
03:22
the member states
03:22
is
03:23
will this be
03:24
the final compromise?
03:25
Will we know
03:26
that if these
03:27
constitutional amendments
03:28
are made
03:29
six months down the road
03:31
a year down the road
03:31
again there will not
03:33
be a veto
03:33
because of
03:35
a bilateral issue?
03:36
Why we pose this question?
03:38
First of all
03:38
to protect our own
03:39
national interests
03:40
to not allow issues
03:41
related to language
03:42
history, identity
03:44
to engulf
03:45
our EU accession process
03:48
but also at the end
03:49
of the day
03:49
to protect the credibility
03:50
of European enlargement
03:52
in the entire region
03:53
because there are
03:54
malign actors out there
03:55
who like to point the finger
03:56
and say
03:57
do you really believe
03:58
that the EU is honest
04:00
in its intention
04:01
for enlargement?
04:02
Look at what they're doing
04:03
to the Macedonians.
04:04
And then we also had
04:04
the Prespa agreement
04:05
which resolved the issue
04:06
around Greece
04:07
but we have heard
04:08
in the past
04:09
or recently
04:10
some ministers
04:11
refusing to use
04:12
the name
04:13
North Macedonia
04:14
which again
04:14
will create problems
04:16
and confrontations
04:17
with Greece.
04:17
Is that an issue still?
04:19
I mean
04:19
if I speak personally
04:21
as an individual
04:22
and I remove myself
04:23
from the position
04:24
that I have
04:24
then I will never
04:26
be able to say to you
04:27
that I am happy
04:28
with the Prespa agreement
04:28
that I believe
04:29
the Prespa agreement
04:30
is good
04:31
or that I believe
04:31
the changing
04:32
of the name
04:33
of a nation
04:33
is fair
04:34
especially in the
04:36
21st century
04:36
but at the end
04:37
of the day
04:37
as foreign minister
04:39
and as a lawyer
04:40
I understand
04:41
that the principle
04:42
of Pacta Sun Cervanda
04:44
and that agreements
04:45
must be kept
04:46
especially in international
04:47
public law
04:48
is a fundamental principle
04:49
and in that sense
04:52
we are a nation
04:53
that will respect
04:54
its obligations
04:55
but also a nation
04:56
that expects
04:57
its partners
04:58
its neighbors
05:00
in the region
05:00
to also respect
05:01
obligations
05:02
in these agreements
05:03
that they've made
05:04
towards us.
05:05
Okay
05:05
because you mentioned
05:05
there are Pacta Sun Cervanda
05:06
agreements should be kept
05:08
and you know
05:09
one of the issues
05:10
that the EU has
05:11
with North Macedonia
05:12
and joining the EU
05:13
is around the rule of law
05:14
independence of the judiciary
05:16
various types of corruption
05:18
and obviously
05:19
that's hugely problematic
05:20
because all EU member states
05:22
will point
05:22
to the deficiencies
05:23
in the EU
05:24
when they had
05:25
the last bout
05:26
of enlargement
05:26
particularly countries
05:27
like Hungary
05:28
Slovakia
05:28
and so on
05:29
so where is North Macedonia
05:32
with making this
05:33
making greater progress
05:34
on this?
05:35
So this is one
05:36
of the key priorities
05:37
of our government
05:38
our government
05:38
was formed
05:39
less than a year ago
05:40
and it has taken
05:42
very direct steps
05:44
towards fighting corruption
05:46
both high level corruption
05:47
but also corruption
05:48
that exists
05:49
in mid level
05:50
and low level service
05:51
establishing a system
05:54
of rule of law
05:55
but this is not something
05:56
that we can do overnight
05:57
and I would once again
05:59
reiterate
05:59
it is also a whole
06:00
of society effort
06:01
it's not just about
06:03
the executive delivering
06:04
but it's about
06:05
a cultural change
06:07
that has to happen
06:08
within the judicial system
06:09
it's about bringing on board
06:11
civil society
06:12
and various different actors
06:14
And how long
06:14
will that take
06:15
because I mean
06:15
this has been on the agenda
06:16
for as you mentioned
06:17
20, 21 years
06:18
Regrettably
06:20
it's been on the agenda
06:21
in rhetoric
06:22
for maybe more than 30 years
06:24
but substantially
06:26
very little
06:27
has been done
06:28
This is a process
06:29
where we need to establish
06:31
clear time frames
06:32
Many of these types
06:34
of time frames
06:35
going into the micro
06:36
and meso aspects
06:38
of these issues
06:38
have already been done
06:39
for us
06:39
with the help
06:40
of the European Union
06:41
and European Union experts
06:43
and then we need
06:44
to start delivering
06:45
because this delivery
06:47
is about government
06:48
doing its job
06:49
but it's about
06:51
creating this
06:52
as I said
06:52
cultural change
06:53
within society
06:54
which helps
06:55
stimulate investment
06:57
which helps
06:58
stimulate entrepreneurship
06:59
which puts young people
07:02
in a situation
07:02
where they don't want
07:04
to leave the country
07:05
because many young people
07:06
are departing
07:07
not just because of
07:08
economic reasons
07:09
but because of
07:10
an infunctional system
07:12
of governance
07:12
and also hopefully
07:14
put our country
07:15
in a situation
07:16
where young people
07:17
that are living abroad
07:18
want to come back
07:19
invest in the country
07:20
build families
07:21
in the country
07:22
take part in
07:24
and political activities
07:25
in the country
07:26
I mean this is a priority
07:27
of our government
07:27
I want to move on
07:28
to the NATO
07:29
foreign ministers
07:30
meeting you hear
07:31
first of all
07:31
can I ask you
07:32
a little bit
07:32
about Russian interference
07:33
in North Macedonia
07:34
I mean one of the reasons
07:35
why enlargement
07:37
needs to happen quickly
07:38
they say
07:39
is because the countries
07:40
in the Western Balkans
07:41
need to be brought
07:41
into the EU
07:42
away from the Russian orbit
07:43
is that something
07:44
that you would agree
07:45
with that narrative
07:46
that premise
07:46
I think enlargement
07:48
needs to happen
07:49
for many reasons
07:50
but one of these reasons
07:52
from a security perspective
07:54
is of course
07:55
the malign Russian influence
07:57
that has been existing
07:58
in our region
08:00
that is there
08:01
I sometimes like
08:02
to very openly
08:03
point out
08:04
that Russian influence
08:06
especially in our region
08:07
comes very cheap
08:08
and they know
08:09
how to utilize it
08:10
Is it through social media
08:11
can you tell us
08:11
a little bit about
08:12
hybrid cyber attacks
08:14
what is it?
08:14
It's a mix of
08:15
of all of the very
08:17
conventional methods
08:18
if I can label them
08:19
that Russia does use
08:20
and that happens
08:21
in our region as well
08:23
And does it impact
08:24
young people's viewpoints?
08:26
Does it impact
08:26
political parties?
08:27
What is the upshot
08:30
for countries
08:31
like North Macedonia?
08:32
So I think
08:33
first of all
08:34
generally
08:34
our society
08:36
and our political
08:37
establishment
08:38
going from government
08:39
to opposition
08:39
is extremely pro-EU
08:42
and society
08:43
wants to move
08:44
forward
08:45
towards EU membership
08:47
but one of the things
08:48
that happens
08:48
is when there's
08:50
lack of clarity
08:51
coming from the European Union
08:52
and the member states
08:53
especially
08:54
our issue
08:54
is a prime example
08:55
then you will have
08:57
Russian influence
08:58
utilizing this
09:00
to say
09:00
listen
09:01
the EU is not honest
09:02
it will never
09:04
integrate
09:04
the region
09:05
and
09:06
if there's
09:07
lack of delivery
09:08
credible delivery
09:09
on the other side
09:10
then
09:11
it's a battle
09:12
that the pro-EU forces
09:14
in our country
09:14
have to wage
09:15
with these various
09:16
different spheres
09:17
of influence
09:17
that do exist
09:18
and that
09:19
will be utilized
09:21
I think
09:21
one of the reasons
09:22
why the EU
09:24
needs to be
09:24
very quick
09:25
and expedient
09:26
in its delivery
09:27
to the entire region
09:28
is to show
09:30
that the clarity
09:31
is there
09:32
the strategic vision
09:33
is there
09:34
Can I ask you then
09:35
why did your country
09:35
abstain
09:36
on the UN
09:37
resolution
09:39
condemning
09:39
Russian aggression
09:40
in Ukraine
09:41
So our country
09:42
I like to point out
09:43
has three constants
09:44
in its foreign policy
09:46
one of them
09:46
is 100% alignment
09:48
with the EU's
09:49
common foreign
09:49
and security policy
09:51
the second
09:52
is our membership
09:53
in NATO
09:54
and the third
09:56
is our strategic partnership
09:57
we have a formal
09:58
strategic partnership
09:59
with the United States
10:01
in this situation
10:02
what I can say
10:03
is that we have been
10:04
one of the most
10:05
consistent supporters
10:06
of Ukraine
10:07
from the NATO
10:08
member states
10:09
we are one of
10:10
the biggest supporters
10:11
per GDP per capita
10:12
for Ukraine
10:13
in terms of
10:14
defense and security support
10:15
but in this current situation
10:17
because there was
10:18
no alignment
10:19
within the CFSP
10:21
within the European Union
10:22
we chose to vote
10:24
aligned with our
10:25
strategic partner
10:25
the United States
10:27
which means that
10:28
we do support Ukraine
10:29
and we do support
10:31
the necessity
10:32
for protecting Ukraine's
10:34
integrity
10:34
and territorial sovereignty
10:36
but we also agree
10:38
that there needs to be
10:39
a path towards peace
10:41
so even that decision
10:42
was in line
10:43
with the very consistent
10:45
foreign policy
10:45
that we've had
10:46
as a nation
10:46
How do you find
10:47
then the negotiations
10:48
so far
10:49
where you
10:50
it appears
10:51
that very little
10:53
concessions
10:53
actually no concessions
10:54
have been applied
10:55
to Russia
10:55
from the United States
10:56
and several to Ukraine
10:58
whether it's
10:59
their energy systems
11:00
whether they're
11:01
critical minerals
11:01
whether it's about
11:03
a ceasefire
11:04
how do you see
11:05
the U.S. treatment
11:06
of Ukraine
11:07
vis-a-vis the negotiations
11:08
So the perception
11:09
that I have
11:10
is that Ukraine
11:11
is on board
11:12
with this process
11:12
and is actively
11:14
taking part
11:14
in this process
11:16
and at the end
11:17
of the day
11:17
Ukraine is a sovereign
11:19
nation that must
11:20
make decisions
11:20
for itself
11:21
What I can say
11:22
is that we
11:23
as a NATO member
11:24
country
11:25
support the path
11:26
towards peace
11:27
It seems very obvious
11:29
right now
11:29
that the United States
11:30
has a path
11:31
towards peace
11:32
which they believe
11:33
is viable
11:34
and in that sense
11:35
considering that
11:36
Ukraine is on board
11:37
with this process
11:38
we absolutely
11:39
support the process
11:41
that is being led
11:41
by the Trump administration
11:43
Secretary Rubio
11:44
as well as
11:45
the whole team
11:45
in finding
11:46
a peaceful solution
11:47
as soon as possible
11:48
Okay
11:49
Foreign Minister
11:50
Tim Chomachinsky
11:50
of North Macedonia
11:52
thank you very much
11:52
for joining us
11:53
Thank you very much
11:54
for the invitation
11:54
Thank you so much
Consigliato
2:06
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