Sidelining AfD in German parliament a sign of 'weakness' of traditional parties, analyst says

FRANCE 24 English

The far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD), which almost doubled its number of MPs in elections a month ago, suffered its first setback on Tuesday when it failed to win any top positions in the new parliament. FRANCE 24's Alex Aucott speaks to Jacob Ross, Research Fellow at the German Council on Foreign Relations. He says that by keeping the AfD marginalised in top positions, Germany's traditional parties are showing their weakness against the far right.  Visit our website: http://www.france24.com  Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/France24_en

Transcript

00:00Germany's new parliament held its first session this Tuesday, following last month's snap

00:05election that came after the previous coalition collapsed.

00:08The new Bundestag looks set for a turbulent term after the conservative CDU-CSU stormed

00:14to victory under would-be Chancellor Friedrich Merz.

00:18He's ruled out working with the second-placed Alternative for Germany, or AfD, party that

00:23doubled its seats for the strongest showing of the far right since the Second World War

00:27and also won't work with the resurgent far left, meaning his only chance of forming a

00:31government seems to be teaming up with the centre-left Social Democrats.

00:36More on this, here's James Fassina.

00:40Six hundred and thirty MPs arrived for their first session at the Bundestag in Berlin since

00:45February's elections.

00:47Among them, 208 are from the conservative Christian Democratic and Christian Social

00:52Unions, the CDU and CSU.

00:57More than 152 members are from the far-right AfD, or Alternative for Germany party.

01:03Having doubled its seats, the AfD has become the country's second-biggest force in parliament,

01:08but that force suffered a first setback this Tuesday after it failed to win any top positions.

01:13A result of what has become known as the firewall, which sees parties from across the spectrum

01:18join forces to keep the AfD at bay.

01:24The AfD has doubled in size and is stronger than ever before.

01:27Your tricks, ladies and gentlemen, will not prevent our rise.

01:30But the long-term strength of that firewall will be tested, as one in five Germans cast

01:36their vote in favour of the party 12 years after it was created.

01:40AfD are to be given more speaking time and a larger share of state financing.

01:45CDU party chief Frederik Moers has been in talks with the centre-left to form a coalition.

01:52He hopes to find an agreement in time for Easter on the 20th of April.

01:59Welcome Ron, this is Jacob Ross, he's a research fellow at the German Council on Foreign Relations,

02:05where he focuses on the far-right and Franco-German relations.

02:09Before we get into the nitty-gritty of this, what are the chances of Moers managing to

02:15form a coalition right now? How are the talks going?

02:18Good evening. It looks pretty good, I would say.

02:22The CDU's negotiators are advancing in several working groups with the Social Democrats.

02:30So Moers' party is in talks with the second big coalition partner.

02:37There are non-papers circulating in Berlin already, so some people are leaking several

02:42papers from the negotiations to, I guess, exert pressure on the other side.

02:48Last week many media reports said that at several points the negotiations had stalled,

02:54but they are going forward and mainly so since Moers really doesn't have any alternative

02:59other than the Social Democratic SPD.

03:02Now the main headline as people watch around the world is this rise of the far-right,

03:08particularly concerning for some as the largest showing since the Second World War, as we've mentioned.

03:16Why has there been this surge of popularity in Germany?

03:20Well, I mean, that's the big question to be answered in the next Bundestag really as well.

03:24And that was the main question asked in German media today by commentators and politicians

03:30alike in the new Bundestag since the last coalition government with three parties didn't

03:36manage to curb down support for AfD. On the contrary, the party doubled these past three years.

03:43And if you saw the images from the new German parliament, the Bundestag today, with this

03:48very big group on the far-right with the AfD, it's very concerning to many people.

03:54Now reasons, I think, that were discussed these past weeks prior to the election were

04:00interior security mainly, the concern of many Germans about migration and the impression

04:06that further governments have not managed to curb down illegal migration, illegal entry

04:12into Germany. Merz has promised to change something prior to the election.

04:17And now he needs to push his demands through in very, in this particular point,

04:24difficult negotiations with the Social Democrats that are much more reluctant

04:30to implement harsher measures on Germany's borders.

04:34Until now, there's been this policy of a firewall or a Braudmauer, I think is how it's pronounced,

04:42in which all parties refused any dealings with the far-right, but it's becoming increasingly

04:47difficult given that they've doubled their seats above 150 now, I believe.

04:52I mean, will it hold, this firewall?

04:55Well, at the state level in Germany, in Berlin, yes, I think so, it will hold for the next

05:03month and years, but on the local level, we have already seen many breaches, really,

05:08in the Braudmauer, in local parliaments, in communal parliaments, in certain cities.

05:14Other parties have voted together with the AfD in certain questions, and not only

05:20the conservatives, really, but also the Social Democrats and the Greens at times.

05:25But yes, it's a crucial question for German democracy, for German politics going forward.

05:33Merz, the very possible or probable next chancellor, has tied his personal career

05:41and destiny as the head of the CDU Conservative Party to this very question.

05:46But yes, we will have to see how things turn out.

05:49And I mean, certainly four years from now, in the next Bundestag election, if the AfD

05:56has not diminished, but has further gained votes, it will become more and more difficult

06:03to keep this Brandmauer or firewall standing.

06:07But, you know, looking at it from the other side as well, I mean, they did come out as

06:12the second biggest party in a democratic election.

06:15And yet we have seen how they are marginalized.

06:18We see that Alexander Goland, the oldest member of parliament, typically he would be

06:23the father of the house who launches parliament, and he hasn't had that.

06:27And the Speaker of the House or President of Parliament, Julia Klocke, she was pressured

06:32not to introduce herself to the AfD.

06:36Is this not playing into the hands of them, saying that they're being marginalized

06:41to a certain extent?

06:42I think it is.

06:43I mean, and that's why many people said that the problems that led to the AfD becoming

06:48so strong need to be solved.

06:49There's really no other solution.

06:51Otherwise, the AfD will further gain seats and it will become more and more difficult

06:56to keep them behind the Brandmauer or even to see a majority rising on the other side

07:01of the Brandmauer, which would be the democratic worst case scenario, really.

07:05But yes, as the examples that you pointed to, Julia Klöckner being pressured to not

07:12going to the new AfD group, which is the biggest opposition group in this new parliament,

07:18not presenting herself.

07:19The fact that Alexander Gauland wasn't opening this new session are all signs of weakness,

07:25I think, for the remaining parties, since they have to change rules.

07:30They have to ignore certain rules to keep the AfD out of these, not necessarily power

07:35positions, but symbolic positions.

07:38And that's what most commentators also observed in this first session today, that the next

07:45Bundestag will become more conflictual with the AfD, demanding these rights and being

07:50a lot more present also in public discourse.

07:53And not only have they doubled their representation in parliament, their views have also got more

07:58extreme, haven't they?

07:59Well, that's the main difference that many people point to when they compare the situation

08:04in France, for instance, with the Rassemblement National, that over the years, at least that's

08:09the outside impression, has become less radical, that Marine Le Pen did everything to give

08:15the sense of de-radicalisation of the party, especially in parliament, with toning down

08:22the critique and the discussions, whereas the AfD, specifically because they are behind

08:30this firewall, this Brandmauer, has turned more radicalised by the years.

08:37If we quickly remember how the party was found in 2013 against the euro crisis, the debt

08:44crisis policies of Angela Merkel as a party of conservative economics professors, and

08:50nowadays includes figures like Björn Höcke, who is seen widely as a right-wing extremist

08:57and maybe even a neo-Nazi figure, that's how the AfD has developed and it's a very

09:03different story than the one that we observe in France, for example, with the Rassemblement

09:08National.

09:09And we've seen in other European countries where the far right has risen, I'm thinking

09:14about Romania, for example, there's been talks of Russian influence in the votes.

09:19Is there any hint of that with the German vote?

09:22There has been travels, at least for certain members of parliament, there have been visits

09:28to Russia and also to the occupied regions of Ukraine, of eastern Ukraine, where Russian

09:36troops are occupying these territories.

09:39There have been rumours at times that Russian intelligence is trying to manipulate and penetrate

09:45into party ranks and into groups that are surrounding the parliament, since the AfD

09:52is the parliamentary arm, so to say, of this right-wing movement in Germany, which is much

09:58bigger, however, and I guess that will be another big concern going forward in the new

10:04Bundestag, in the parliament, since in some groups parliamentarians need to get security

10:10clearances, for instance, since they get access to classified documents, and that's

10:15a big question right now, since, I mean, Ukraine is at war with Russia, but many other countries,

10:20especially in Eastern Europe, but also Germany, are feeling more and more threatened by Russia

10:25and need to keep this circle secure.

10:30All right, thank you very much for that analysis, and we'll continue to follow all the latest

10:34from the German election.

10:36Thank you for being with us.

10:37Time now for a short break.

Category

Transcript

Recommended