Jimmy Carter’s Legacy and the Taiwan Relations Act

TaiwanPlus News

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter has died at the age of 100. He leaves behind a legacy of humanitarian efforts and lasting impact on U.S.-Taiwan relations.   On this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, TaiwanPlus reporter Alec MacDonald speaks with Bill Stanton, a former director of the American Institute in Taiwan, the de facto U.S. embassy. We first zoom in on Carter’s tenure as president, then zoom out to discuss his impact on the Taiwan Relations Act.

Transcript

00:00Welcome to Zoom In Zoom Out, your global look at news from Taiwan, I'm Alec McDonald.

00:18Jimmy Carter, the longest living United States president, has died at the age of 100 years

00:23old.

00:24Carter served only one term in office from 1977 to 1981, but those years were marked

00:30by foreign policy decisions still felt to this day, from brokering the Camp David Accords

00:35to formally severing ties with the Republic of China.

00:38But it is decades of work out of the White House that he has become most known for globally.

00:45To learn more about the legacy of Jimmy Carter, I'm joined by Bill Stanton, a retired US diplomat.

00:51He served as the director for the American Institute in Taiwan from 2009 to 2012.

00:57Following his retirement, he taught as a professor at several top Taiwanese universities.

01:03Bill, welcome and thank you very much for joining us today.

01:07Happy to be with you.

01:09We first want to zoom in on Carter's time as president.

01:13You actually joined the Foreign Service in 1978 while he was still president.

01:19What was that like?

01:20And can you tell us a little bit about that time?

01:23My first assignment after a junior officer training in Washington for, I guess, six months,

01:29I volunteered to go and welcome the chance to go to Beirut, which was already a kind

01:36of war zone, dangerous place.

01:39When Carter came in, I welcomed that because, of course, in my college, at least my graduate

01:46school years, part of that time, Nixon was the president.

01:51And Nixon, of course, was already had gone through the Watergate crisis.

01:57And it was a very unpleasant period when basically, you know, our president of the United States

02:06had been forced to resign.

02:08I liked Carter because he focused on human rights.

02:12He focused on democracy.

02:14And I think he was the first president really to make that a key part of his portfolio.

02:20So my overall assessment in my early years in the Foreign Service was that, you know,

02:27he was successful and certainly had more achievements in foreign policy than many subsequent presidents.

02:35As someone who is in the Foreign Service, what do you think were some of President Carter's

02:40crowning foreign policy achievements?

02:44Well, I think the three significant foreign policy decisions that he made, the Panama

02:53Canal, like it or not, the Camp David Accords, and in particular, then the Taiwan Relations

03:03Act.

03:04I think, you know, one of the important things about the U.S. is its values.

03:10And he stood up for those values, the best of our values, at least.

03:15And I think that was kind of a breakthrough.

03:19I don't think previous presidents had emphasized that as much.

03:24He really believed in, you know, we had to treat other people fairly and well, which

03:32I think also accounts for, you know, his decision on Panama Canal.

03:37You know, there wasn't really our territory.

03:39We had basically, yeah, we built the canal, but it was basically a land other people were

03:44living in.

03:45And, you know, I think that kind of sense of fairness and adhered to everything he did.

03:53Bill, you mentioned the Camp David Accords, and you're actually serving in the region

03:58at the time that that was signed.

04:01What were the tensions and discussions like inside the Foreign Service at that time, and

04:06how did that impact the region?

04:09I really welcome the Camp David Accords, which I think is one of the great achievements of

04:15Carter because, you know, there's been lasting peace, at least in that part of the Middle

04:22East, between Israel and Egypt over all these years.

04:26It was a reassuring move in the Middle East at a time when things were increasingly uncertain

04:32and got worse as we saw increasing terrorist attacks over time, over my years in the Foreign

04:41Service.

04:42Near the end of the Carter administration, there was, of course, the attack on the U.S.

04:49Embassy, the taking of hostages and all that.

04:53And in comparison, the solution that had been worked out between Israel and Egypt seemed

05:01like the right way to go.

05:02So I think, you know, it was the whole idea of being a peacemaker rather than just a participant

05:10in conflict.

05:11Let's move to Asia, where President Carter is most known for severing ties with the Republic

05:18of China.

05:20How did this impact the region and the world at that time?

05:25Well, I think those of us who recognized at that time the big threat was not China.

05:33The big threat was Russia.

05:35And it was perceived, I think, by everyone that it was a good strategic move to try to

05:41stabilize the relationship with the Chinese.

05:47And the Chinese were also not that big of a threat at that time.

05:53Economically, they were not in great shape.

05:57They needed trade with the United States.

06:01And then, of course, there was criticism of it, though, and it continues to be.

06:06It recognized, in effect, communist China.

06:10But on the other hand, we continued to also acknowledge Taiwan.

06:18And I think it was, you know, it was a conclusion, a way of dealing with the issue that's held

06:25its own over time and over the years.

06:28It was only later when I went to China that I realized, in a way, that I thought the Taiwan

06:38Relations Act, of course, was our catechism for the relationship with China.

06:44And that he was criticized for recognizing, Carter was criticized for recognizing China.

06:51In fact, what was important was subsequently coming to a way of getting around our continuing

07:03disagreement on the status of Taiwan was the Taiwan Relations Act.

07:09What might have happened if that in 79, Carter had not made the decision to move forward

07:16with recognizing the PRC and that the United States continued to recognize the ROC at that

07:26time?

07:27You know, there were also, there was an agreement about, in effect, continuing U.S. arms sales

07:36for Taiwan.

07:38And I think if we had just abandoned Taiwan, particularly at a time when, you know, it

07:45was under authoritarian governments, I think the chances for a conflict would have greatly

07:52increased.

07:53And, you know, often in diplomacy, the best you can do is to defer conflicts and to defer

08:01problems and to buy time.

08:04And I think, in effect, we did that.

08:07Looking back, it had been really a great success for the relationship.

08:10And it was a sort of a foundation stone of the relationship as it then existed with Taiwan.

08:19That's actually a great place to zoom out to talk about the Taiwan Relations Act, which

08:23is now 45 years old.

08:25How has that impacted the world?

08:27And especially focusing on right now, how that is impacting and carrying U.S. and Taiwan

08:33relations?

08:35To this day, of course, the Chinese are very upset and have always tried to get us to abandon

08:42the Taiwan Relations Act.

08:44But I think it's continued to prove fruitful for us as a way of trying to resolve or at

08:53least to put into abeyance a very difficult issue for the United States and for all parties

08:59concerned.

09:01The proof of that is that Taiwan flourished under the Taiwan Relations Act.

09:05And as it moved thereafter to more democracy and freedom, became more economically successful

09:13and indeed then became the world leader in chips.

09:19Everybody could look back and say, you know, Carter made a good decision back then.

09:25There was not only the Taiwan Relations Act, but also, you know, how we interpreted it.

09:33That basically allowed us to continue to have a strong relationship with Taiwan, with the

09:38people of Taiwan, to have a strong economic relationship with Taiwan, but also not to

09:49back down in the face of Chinese pressures.

09:52You know, we've continued to abide by our side of the agreement by saying, you know,

09:58we would acknowledge the Chinese position, but that didn't mean we would accept it.

10:05You know, we would acknowledge the Chinese position that there's one China.

10:10But that didn't mean that was our position.

10:13We would be much more ambiguous about it in effect.

10:18So it was a safeguard, a railing, both with China, but also with Taiwan.

10:26And I think that allowed us to live with both sides and through the relationship with both

10:33sides to, you know, get the best it could be.

10:39You've interacted with people in China and in Taiwan.

10:43In your conversations there, what did people think about Carter?

10:48Well, I don't think either side was all that much in love with him.

10:53I think over time, as Taiwan became more democratic, I think they became very much more favorable

11:01in their view of Carter and what he had done.

11:04He supported human rights and he did the best he could in terms of the relationship with

11:10Taiwan.

11:11I think China, the view remains much more negative.

11:16I think going back, Mao was very unhappy.

11:22You know, Deng Xiaoping was unhappy, surely Xi Jinping is unhappy and would like to totally

11:29revise how we manage the relationship.

11:33So we can't really finish talking about Carter without touching on his humanitarian aid work

11:39and also his focus on democracy and justice.

11:42What do you think fueled that in Carter?

11:45I think there was a deep sense of disappointment that he hadn't been able to continue in the

11:51direction he wanted to go.

11:55And I think he's somebody who always wanted to do more and, you know, to contribute as

12:03much as he could.

12:04I mean, here's a guy who who went to West Point.

12:08He was a nuclear engineer.

12:11He was an author.

12:12He was a governor.

12:13He was a representative before that.

12:17He, you know, he was driven, he was very ambitious, but he was ambitious also in the way that

12:23he felt there were things he could do and that he wanted to do and that would be good

12:29things to do for the United States, but for other countries.

12:33He was always interested, for example, in segregation.

12:37He was interested in helping the poor and he realized there were huge humanitarian problems

12:42around the world.

12:44In a sentence, what do you believe is the legacy that Jimmy Carter has left with our

12:50world?

12:51I think his his biggest legacy may have been his overall concern for human rights, which

12:59I think was he gave that more emphasis than any previous or even subsequent president,

13:06I think.

13:08And nowadays, if you I'm sure if you go to the Foreign Service School and one of the

13:15things they emphasize is human rights.

13:19Also we didn't talk about it, but his emphasis on denuclearization, his efforts with the

13:28SALT II talks that failed, but his efforts to try to stop growing buildup of nuclear

13:34weapons.

13:36But the legacy is he identified the United States more closely with the cause for human

13:42rights and that is something we should all be concerned about.

13:46Bill, thank you very much for sharing with us today.

13:51This has been Zoom In Zoom Out.

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13:57Thank you very much for joining and we'll see you next time.

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