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Is Pakistan's Right to Information Law Just for Show? National Coordinator FAFEN
ARY NEWS
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1/9/2025
Is Pakistan's Right to Information Law Just for Show? National Coordinator FAFEN
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00:00
At the beginning of the program, I told you that there seems to be a civilian dictatorship here.
00:04
Why did I say that?
00:05
The basic principle of democracy is that we elect people,
00:08
they run governments, run systems, and give answers to us.
00:13
We get a new law every day,
00:16
that you don't think, you don't say,
00:18
you take whose name, you don't take whose name,
00:20
we have restrictions to this extent.
00:22
And where the taxpayer's money goes, where our money is, where these answers are,
00:27
there is a total chill program.
00:29
Fafn, the Free and Fair Election Network, has done a very good report on this.
00:33
You heard that a Right to Information Act was created in 2017.
00:38
And there were a lot of speeches on it.
00:40
Oh, look, now any citizen will write,
00:43
will be given an answer within 10 days,
00:45
the ministry will not give, then this action will be done, that action will be done.
00:48
Come on, our hopes have also been awakened.
00:50
Then, as is the case in the government,
00:52
a system is immediately formed.
00:55
Then, the information commissioners will be appointed.
00:59
Three in every province,
01:01
under them is the entire court,
01:02
and in the MP-1 scheme, there are hundreds of thousands of salaries.
01:06
If you look at the commissioners in the centre,
01:09
if you look at the commissioners in every province,
01:10
it is a complete mess.
01:12
This is the expense of crores of rupees a month, which you and I are paying.
01:16
And what is the work?
01:17
Insolvency.
01:17
Absolutely nothing.
01:19
Fafn has just reported,
01:21
and that is why I am sharing with you,
01:22
a very interesting data has emerged.
01:25
They said, we did the average.
01:26
Now look at the state of the federal ministries.
01:28
They said that we scrutinized 40 divisions of 33 federal ministries.
01:36
And you know, it seems that on an average,
01:38
they have posted 40% basic information.
01:42
And the information is completely incomplete,
01:45
completely incomplete and benign information.
01:48
They have done a lot of favour,
01:49
they have told how many officers are there,
01:51
what is it, under which law it was made.
01:53
There is no serious information there either.
01:56
And this is 40% average.
01:58
There are important ministries,
01:59
Information and Broadcasting,
02:02
Human Resource Development,
02:03
they have given 19% of their information.
02:06
Defence, Power, Law and Justice, Railways,
02:09
they have given 27% of their information.
02:11
And this is also exactly what,
02:13
what should I say,
02:14
what I use,
02:15
which is completely useless information.
02:17
They did those things.
02:18
Then they wrote a letter.
02:20
And when they wrote to all the ministries,
02:21
only 19 of them thought it was appropriate to answer.
02:24
14 did not even answer.
02:27
And among those who did not answer,
02:28
Interior Ministry,
02:29
they said, who are you, black and yellow people,
02:31
who are asking for answers from us?
02:33
Human Rights, IT,
02:34
which is the biggest problem in the country at the moment,
02:36
they did not even answer.
02:37
Law and Justice, Railways,
02:40
and I read the list,
02:41
these are all people,
02:42
absolutely no responsibility,
02:45
no answer,
02:46
we are giving crores to the commissions.
02:48
Don was great,
02:49
on whom the editorial also came.
02:51
He said, you have made 5 Right to Information commissions.
02:55
In one centre,
02:55
in 4 provinces,
02:56
each has 3 commissions.
02:58
Then there is a whole department behind it.
03:00
There is a legal department below,
03:01
facilitation centre,
03:02
IT section,
03:03
communication section,
03:05
admin section,
03:06
budget and accounts,
03:07
that is, a whole ministry has been formed.
03:10
What is the performance?
03:11
Zilch.
03:13
And they have got this answer again,
03:15
because Fafanet was an NGO.
03:18
A common man writes,
03:19
he does not care,
03:20
it is not appropriate to answer him.
03:22
They did not even answer him.
03:23
The key ministries did not even answer him.
03:26
But this is the state of affairs.
03:29
What drama is going on?
03:31
What is not going on?
03:31
Let's talk about this later.
03:33
I have been joined by Mr. Rashid Chaudhary.
03:35
He is the national coordinator of Fafanet.
03:37
Assalam-o-Alaikum, Mr. Rashid.
03:39
Waalaikum-as-salam, Mr. Malik.
03:41
Sir, tell me,
03:42
the information you have taken,
03:45
first tell me,
03:48
40% is a big average of yours,
03:51
if you add up all of them.
03:52
The main departments have 19-20%.
03:56
What quality of information
03:57
have they given on their website?
03:59
Or have they given it to you as well?
04:04
The quality of information on that,
04:06
this information is the information
04:08
that the law requires,
04:10
that they will voluntarily put it on their website,
04:15
and it is necessary to put it.
04:17
And there is a lot of basic information on this,
04:19
what is the overview of the public body,
04:22
what kind of organization it is,
04:25
what is the diagram,
04:26
what is the personnel,
04:28
what are the reports,
04:29
and the basic annual things like this,
04:32
those are the declarations.
04:34
So the problem is that those declarations
04:37
are also not available on websites.
04:39
And on that,
04:41
at least the federal ministries,
04:44
we have taken the websites of the divisions,
04:47
we have not yet gone to the provinces,
04:49
but section 5 of the federal law of 2017,
04:54
its compliance is such that
04:56
where there are proactive disclosures,
04:58
our public bodies, institutions,
05:02
divisions are not compliant.
05:05
And this one that you talked about,
05:07
that if someone has some information available,
05:10
how much information is available,
05:12
how much time is there,
05:13
we have tried to test that as well.
05:16
In that as well,
05:18
the information that is there,
05:20
many ministries have not asked for it at all,
05:23
to give some kind of answer,
05:24
some have given the answer,
05:26
some have given the answer within the same 10 days,
05:28
some have given it after that.
05:30
But the way the public bodies
05:33
try to get information,
05:35
after that, there is a mechanism,
05:37
the information commission.
05:38
So what is there in the Act?
05:39
If they don't give an answer,
05:41
then what will happen?
05:43
Then people go to the information commission
05:46
for an appeal,
05:48
they complain that
05:50
we asked for this information,
05:52
we did not get it,
05:53
and then the information commission
05:55
gets this information,
05:57
writes to the institutions,
05:59
that this information has been given.
06:01
Do you have the data
06:03
of how many people these commissions have worked for?
06:06
Because no one is going to ask these commissions.
06:09
Who is looking at the activities of these commissions?
06:13
The information commissions,
06:14
which are there for three years,
06:16
in the federation,
06:17
they have annual reports,
06:19
there are different trainees,
06:21
and their activities…
06:23
No, no, the reports have come,
06:25
they have a performance matrix,
06:27
that you have…
06:29
How are we judging?
06:30
People have been sitting for seven years,
06:32
it is taking turns,
06:33
three years later, three years later.
06:35
So there is a matrix,
06:37
there are indicators,
06:38
there is an oversight on them,
06:40
that they are sitting quietly,
06:42
they are sitting in the woodwork,
06:44
taking salaries, MP1 is being paid.
06:46
There is an oversight of the parliament on them.
06:50
Parliament scrutinizes their annual reports,
06:54
checks them,
06:56
and how effective they have been,
06:58
what is the efficacy,
06:59
how many petitions are being decided here,
07:02
and how many are going to the president in representation,
07:06
and how much information is being available to people.
07:14
When you contacted the ministries,
07:16
for example, the Interior Ministry,
07:18
Human Rights,
07:19
I think at least the Human Rights people will answer,
07:22
because it is a rights-based ministry,
07:24
and it is a Right to Know Information Act,
07:27
Human Rights did not even answer you.
07:30
Yes,
07:31
the ministry that should be the most transparent,
07:38
should give more information,
07:40
for example,
07:41
there is poverty alleviation,
07:42
there is a division of safety nets,
07:44
they should tell people most proactively,
07:47
what they are doing,
07:48
and maybe they are doing a lot,
07:50
but because they only have 8% compliance on the website,
07:54
8%?
07:55
8%
07:56
information is not available,
07:58
ok, they have 8%
08:00
they have 8%
08:04
and when this type of information is not available,
08:07
then people make stories,
08:08
then there is misinformation and disinformation,
08:10
and we think that,
08:12
the way to tackle this misinformation and disinformation,
08:15
the way to make a law or bring in some other regulations,
08:19
it can be misused,
08:21
the better way to tackle misinformation and disinformation is,
08:25
is that the state should become more transparent and the ministries, divisions and public bodies
08:31
should proactively start giving that information to the people, so that at least this...
08:36
How do they start giving it?
08:37
Then all the activities will not come in front of us.
08:39
Anyway, we have run out of time, Rashid Chaudhary sir, thank you very much.
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