The Penguin 1x08 Inside A Great Or Little Thing (2024) Season Finale _ The Batman spinoff series_2

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00:00I'm gonna get you out of the Eastside, Ma.

00:05Put you up somewhere real nice.

00:07In a penthouse, like you want, with a view of the whole friggin' city.

00:19Colin sent me The Ballad of Reading JL by Oscar Wilde, and in it, one of the quotes

00:24is a greater little thing, and it's about how each man destroys the thing he loves.

00:29And so, given what happens in the finale, I thought it was an apt title for it.

00:35The top of episode eight is Frances' entree, and we finally see some of Frances' backstory

00:42and the fact that she knew what Oswald did to her sons the whole time.

00:46I got the devil in my house, Rex.

00:49Well, then maybe let him go.

00:51What Oz doesn't know is that she's asked Rex to kill him for her.

00:55And so she says, we're going out.

00:57And then they go to a jazz club.

00:59But what Oz sees that as is a celebration of, he has his mom back.

01:03Oz sits with Frances in a booth, and he tells her, I know you miss her, Ma.

01:09And then he turns around, and he's so happy to be with his mom.

01:14That moment is meant to be just a gut punch, like something's wrong with this kid.

01:20I think it's always a question of nature versus nurture.

01:24I know Frances has shaped him, but I also know Oz shaped Frances, too.

01:29She made a choice when she chose to keep him alive.

01:32And so she made a deal with the devil.

01:34So there was a darkening by Frances because of Oz as well.

01:39Don't give up on me.

01:40She's just like, I don't have to do this tonight.

01:43And she just takes one step at a time.

01:46And then we find them in this knot all those years later.

01:52One of the things that Lauren did so brilliantly was the idea of the way that Oz understands

01:56the story versus the way that we come to understand.

01:59And this, of course, becomes a key aspect that Sophia ends up being able to exploit.

02:05Sophia brings Frances back to this rundown jazz club that has a darkness that we haven't

02:13really seen in any other instance.

02:16It's decayed, and the chandelier's fallen from the riddler's palms from the shaking.

02:20It's almost like an earthquake hit it.

02:22I pitched Lauren the theme of the jungle.

02:25Gotham is like a jungle.

02:27It's a dangerous place.

02:28And I felt that the club could play with that theme, but in a fanciful way.

02:33So it's a very evocative place.

02:36Sophia has this very sophisticated group therapy session where all he has to do is this one

02:41thing, and he doesn't have the cojones to do it.

02:44Just say it.

02:45Tell her.

02:46It's just your disease talking, Mom.

02:47I hate you.

02:48I hate you for what you did.

02:50I never stopped hating you.

02:52All these years, the sound has never come out.

02:55It's like, my baby's are dead sound.

02:58I shouldn't have let Rex kill you when I had the chance.

03:00Colin and Dee Dee are both such beasts, and what they had to do and say to each other,

03:05it's like this ultimate unmasking.

03:07But that Sophia is witnessing him hearing things from his mother that he can never unhear.

03:12You're the goddamn devil.

03:15Is enormously satisfying.

03:16There's nothing better.

03:19Up until it all sort of goes haywire.

03:25Sophia decides to leave Gotham behind.

03:32But first, before she goes anywhere, she needs to hurt Oz.

03:35It all seems great until everything goes to hell.

03:39In thinking about where that scene should be, we ended up landing on the idea of an

03:43airport because it was so great to see Sophia almost get away with it.

03:48I've always said this show is a tragedy, and so that's where you really start to feel it.

03:54What we wanted to do is Oz drive her towards the water under a bridge.

04:00It's the Elliott Bridge that's very emblematic of our class disparity in Gotham.

04:05I always knew Sophia would end up back in Arkham and that there would be a final Oz

04:09and Sophia showdown.

04:11This is a show about Oz.

04:12It's called The Penguin.

04:13And you know in some form he's going to rise above in some way.

04:20It is a fate worse than death for her to go back to that place.

04:25He really turns the tables and there is no worse thing to happen to her.

04:29Oz wants to hurt her in the way that she has hurt him.

04:32And in his mind, once you mess with his mom, there's no going back.

04:37He's going to make sure Sophia's punished.

04:44Towards the end of the show, Victor has seen Oz at his most vulnerable.

04:48The two of those guys have been through everything together.

04:52Someone seeing his vulnerability feels like a weakness.

04:55And in Oz's opinion, he cannot achieve what he needs to achieve if he has those weaknesses

05:00around.

05:01For him to be betrayed by the person that he considers family now, after we have finally

05:07done this thing, we got to the top of the game.

05:10It made me, reading the scripts, go, wow, this guy's worse than I thought.

05:18It wasn't for nothing.

05:22The fact that he goes to such extremes because he's so broken, that's the tragedy of the

05:27story.

05:28It's Oz really in that moment when he kills Victor, killing his own heart and becoming

05:32a monster.

05:36Oz at the end of this show, he's not the Oz we left in the movie.

05:39He's progressed in his criminality.

05:42For me, it was always Oz and his mother.

05:44Oz needs his mother's love.

05:45He will get to the top, but he will not have his mother's love.

05:49She ends up in a state she never wanted to be in, that he knew she never wanted to be

05:53in.

05:54But he cannot let go of her.

05:56The story's about having to fully stare into what that desire actually gets you, which

06:04is less than nothing.

06:05It all plays out through this transactional relationship where he's getting people to

06:10play the roles in the story the way he needs them to be.

06:14And you realize just how broken he is.

06:18And Eve is an incredibly key aspect to that.

06:21Eve and Oz have a very transactional relationship.

06:26But I think they understand each other.

06:27They're both survivors.

06:29She is in this ultimate role play for him.

06:32She's really taking on the energy of his mother.

06:35She's literally taking on the wardrobe, the look.

06:39In another situation, it would have been a romantic moment.

06:42But in this series, it's a very dark moment.

06:45Now the woman who Oz pays to sleep with, he's made her into his mother by wearing his mother's

06:51dress.

06:52It was always having Eve dress up like his mother in that dress, which we established

06:57early, and see that Oz is delusional, that there is something darker in him than you

07:02might suspect.

07:05I knew that the goal of the series by the end was to have him rise to the top or get

07:10closer to that goal.

07:12But when he achieves power, that he's lost a lot of himself as well.

07:23I've always sought to make it feel operatic in ways, to have it feel very tragic in the

07:28end.

07:29So even when Oz succeeds and even when Oz gets everything he wants, I wanted it to feel

07:31tragic.

07:32He created his own delusion in that way.

07:35It's a very twisted, twisted way to end.

07:44Gotham's yours, sweetheart.

07:48Nothing's standing in your way now.

08:01Gotham's yours, sweetheart.

08:02Nothing's standing in your way now.

08:03Gotham's yours, sweetheart.

08:04Nothing's standing in your way now.

08:05Gotham's yours, sweetheart.

08:06Nothing's standing in your way now.

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