The Scotsman Bulletin Monday October 07 2024 #SueGray

The Scotsman

Transcript

00:00Hello and welcome to the Scotsman's Daily Video Bulletin for this Monday.

00:05My name is Darl Miller, I'm Deputy Editor of the Scotsman and I'm joined by our Westminster

00:10correspondent, Alexander Brown.

00:12Alex, we have plenty to talk about coming out of the weekend and part of it is linked

00:17into the front page of today's paper.

00:21Starmer was talking about standing with the Jewish community.

00:25We've obviously had exactly a year today since the start of the Gaza conflict, the

00:32latest chapter in the Gaza conflict involving Israel.

00:36A lot of talk, a lot of pitches to come out over the past 24 hours around that.

00:43But Starmer also had an issue to deal with in terms of Sue Gray and her addition to the

00:49government over the past couple of months and it was announced on Sunday that she was

00:54effectively leaving the comms role she'd been appointed to and moved into a new role.

01:00Alex, this has felt like something that has been coming over the past couple of weeks.

01:07Can you just talk through the actual mechanics of the decision and why Sir Keith Starmer

01:12and his government had to reach this point?

01:14So Sue Gray was called into the Prime Minister's office on Thursday and essentially let go.

01:22I think the framing of it is that it was a resignation and that she's offered to move into a

01:27different role because her presence has become a distraction.

01:29But really, this is the Prime Minister wielding the axe.

01:33This is the government recognising that, I think, 94 days in, that his staffing is what

01:40people are talking about.

01:41It's become a problem for briefings.

01:43It would become toxic for Sue Gray.

01:45People were briefing against her and her pay constantly and about her conduct.

01:50So it's a win for many Labour MPs who were very unhappy with her.

01:54And it's a blow to the Prime Minister, really, who had kind of counted her as a key ally and

01:59defended her at all turns, both publicly and privately, and insisted that she would not be going

02:04anywhere.

02:05Whether her appointment was a good move, I mean, she's so experienced.

02:08She brought credibility.

02:10But also she brought questions.

02:11She came in and there were accusations of, well, she was looking into Boris Johnson.

02:16Is there bias in that?

02:18But actually, her report was a damn squib.

02:20Her report found no wrongdoing.

02:22So I think some of the criticism has been unfair.

02:25But there is no doubt that some of her decision making had been pretty suspect and she took

02:31a harsh line towards journalists using, I think she called them scumbags, which wasn't the

02:37best way to ingratiate herself with a lobby pack delighted to have their first scalp.

02:44Alex, you talk about decision making in terms of Sue Gray's decision making.

02:48What about Keir Starmer and this government?

02:50We've seen the Gray decision and you could have, I don't think you would have had to

02:55be Nostradamus to assume we may have got to a point where there was a lot of friction

02:59about her position in the opening couple of months of the government.

03:02But also you've had the winter fuel payment stuff.

03:06You've also had the gifts situation.

03:09Now, Starmer and the government would have known these claims had been made.

03:14Could they have foreseen that this would be raised as an issue over the first couple of

03:18months, given, you know, all what plagued effectively Boris Johnson and some of the

03:25final Tory governments as well?

03:28Should they have read the writing on the wall better here?

03:32Yes, but I also think those are separate issues.

03:34I think issues around freebies and accepting things was basic competence that ministers

03:41should have known better over, whereas the appointment of Sue Gray and even winter fuel.

03:47That's the winter fuel is a policy issue.

03:49Right. And that's something that has damaged the party and I think probably damaged the

03:53party more than any inner drama of the inner workings of Downing Street.

03:58I think people are far more interested in the policy than they are who is running Downing

04:02Street. So the party should have known.

04:05The party had an idea that she would be difficult because she was difficult immediately and

04:10they gave her lots of power.

04:12I think her pay being leaked was a huge thing to happen.

04:15The fact that she had personal oversight over ministerial appointments, I mean, the

04:19staffers ministerial appointments.

04:21So I know Labour staffers who've been there for a long time, have great relationships

04:26with now ministers and has presumed, I think perhaps understandably, that having been an

04:31adviser in opposition, they then be an adviser in government.

04:35And Sue Gray had a personal veto over that.

04:38So some people did not get jobs because Sue Gray said, actually, no, I don't think

04:42they're the right person, which is a huge amount of power to have to someone who would

04:46only just come through the door.

04:48And it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

04:50So I think the party should have known better, but they haven't really handled the optics

04:55of it well. Right.

04:56We should not be talking about the inner workings of Downing Street.

04:59We should be talking about policy.

05:01And I think they're acting quickly on this.

05:03I think it's interesting that the prime minister has acted on this of his own accord.

05:08The people I've been speaking to, this was his decision.

05:11And he came back from the party conference feeling pretty chastened, pretty upset and

05:17recognising that something had gone wrong.

05:19And he's now appointed Morgan McSweeney, who was the brains behind his leadership campaign.

05:23He was the head of political policy.

05:26And it's an appointment that will inspire many MPs.

05:29He is loved by staffers.

05:31His wife is Imogen Wharton, a posh Labour MP.

05:34And he's also close to the Labour Together group, the, you know, controversial spammer

05:38I think is controversial in the sense it seems to do quite well.

05:42So he's recognised it.

05:44He's made an appointment with the group popular.

05:46And we're hoping that can just put the whole issue behind it.

05:49So we're talking about a couple of days being, I guess, reactive decisions or reactive

05:54policies from Starmer.

05:56Pretend you're on the other side of the fence for the moment and you're putting on your

06:00SPAD hat.

06:01You know, you say you're representing Keir Starmer and this government.

06:05You've got a very difficult budget about three weeks away.

06:08But how do you actually get on the front foot?

06:10So you've got some momentum behind you and it looks like you're leading things rather

06:15than reacting to things.

06:17Not to ape Tony Blair's repetition, but it's policy, policy, policy.

06:22We should not be talking about who works in Downing Street.

06:25We should be talking about what a Labour government can do for you, what a Labour government can

06:29do for the public to deliver change.

06:31So for all this drama and all the pages and words that are going to come out of this,

06:37what happened to the budget is obviously the most important thing.

06:40And it's all about framing.

06:42We know that there are going to be sweeping cuts made in the budget just because those

06:46savings have to be made.

06:48And how that's framed will be crucial to whether the Labour Party can, you know, increase

06:52its popularity or be perceived as, you know, more austerity deliverance.

06:57I think it was interesting that I spoke to one MP about the winter fuel and they said,

07:02well, you know, it's 2.5 billion.

07:04We've got another 22.5 to go.

07:05So it sounds like, you know, oh, well, that's one issue that's behind us.

07:09But there's more cuts coming.

07:11So there really has to be hope that, you know, we can expect that infrastructure is probably

07:15going to have cuts.

07:16It will not be the improvements to infrastructure and transport and rail that maybe people had

07:21hoped for.

07:22But there has to be some nuggets of joy.

07:24There has to be some time frame or some promise that things will get better, because at the

07:29moment, Labour isn't really offering any hope and is looking pretty incompetent while doing

07:34so.

07:36You can read about Sue Gray's resignation at Scotsman.com.

07:42You'll get all the latest on the Scottish and UK politics front at our site.

07:47Just follow the politics tab in the navigation bar.

07:50Read the latest from Alex.

07:52And also, please follow us on Facebook, X and Instagram and buy a copy of the paper

07:58tomorrow.

07:59Thanks to you, Alex.

08:00And thanks, everyone, for joining us.

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