Why is PMLN govt not accepting SC's verdict regarding reserved seats?

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00:00Thank you, your numbers are complete, everyone will agree on the resolution.

00:04Even after this, is there any miscalculation?

00:06Are you not seeing from within that there will be a reaction on this in the Supreme Court?

00:10Because you directly challenged 2-3 things.

00:12I will talk about the rest too, but you are directly challenging this.

00:16Because this was a unanimous decision of the Supreme Court.

00:19It endorsed your practice and procedure bill.

00:21In that way, it agreed with the Constitutional Committee.

00:25And now you have changed it overnight.

00:27I don't think that there is any miscalculation or bias.

00:33Here, this is our work.

00:36Which is to amend the Constitution, the law or any law.

00:40It is obvious that we understood it better.

00:43Because apart from the common man, if we look at the political cases, they are also not taking up.

00:49How many months have passed, the details of the special sessions have not been decided yet.

00:54But after the short order, the explanatory orders have come twice.

00:58So at least we have to see that we have to end this whole thing, this constitutional crisis.

01:04And this political crisis that has come with it, we have to end it too.

01:09These things should be decided once and for all.

01:12Whether it is about the 63-1, whether it is about the special sessions,

01:15whether it is about any other political issue or about any political party.

01:20So this should be decided once and for all.

01:22And you thought that to end the constitutional crisis, we would do a great job.

01:26We would not implement the decision of the Supreme Court of the special sessions.

01:30No, that was also said by the Speaker.

01:32Look, our work as a parliament, with the trichotomy of powers or separation of powers,

01:38when you talk about that concept, then every institution has its own work.

01:42And every institution has its own place.

01:44And which should be according to the constitution and the law.

01:46And there is also a place in the constitution.

01:48But the issue, unfortunately, is that institutions transgress each other's powers or space.

01:55When they transgress, then there is a situation of collusion with each other.

02:01Now, this Election Commission of Pakistan is an institution itself.

02:05And it has to decide whether it has to look at the order,

02:08which is different from the constitution and the law or from the factual position.

02:14Or it has to look at the letter of the parliament, whatever the letters are,

02:18where this issue of the special sessions will go.

02:21This is a good thing. I think this debate will be settled in the court.

02:23Because that decision is a unanimous decision, a majority decision.

02:27And it is the written decision of the next Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan,

02:30Mansoor Ali Shah, who has also been mentioned by your government.

02:33This means that after this decision, justice will again go to the court.

02:36There will be a legal tussle.

02:38There will be uncertainty.

02:39Will these seats remain occupied or not?

02:41You notify on this, they will be denotified.

02:43So, you are deepening the crisis further, instead of settling it.

02:46Absolutely not. According to my information, I must tell you that

02:49probably PTI has also issued a recent request on this and on its implementation.

02:54But this is such a serious matter.

02:57Because an order came, the party which they did not have in front and so on and so forth,

03:02seats were given to that third party.

03:04Here, Memorandum had already taken an oath.

03:07A letter has also come from the parliament.

03:10And PTI will again go for its implementation.

03:13The clarification that came in the detailed order of the Election Commission is also in front of you.

03:16So, this thing should end.

03:18Either this house will run without these seats or it will run with these seats.

03:23Then there will be a direct confrontation with your institution, with the Supreme Court.

03:26If in each other's space and in each other's constitutional matters,

03:29or in the space provided to you by the constitution,

03:31you will transgress,

03:33whether that Supreme Court transgresses in our constitutional space

03:38or it transgresses in the work of the Election Commission of Pakistan

03:42by issuing party certificates

03:44or by telling the affiliation of someone's party that it is not from this party, it is from this party.

03:49So, obviously, there will be a constitutional crisis.

03:51Politically, how does it play out for you?

03:53So, let's talk about the law.

03:54One Chief Justice is about to come.

03:56One Chief Justice is going.

03:58I will ask you what happened.

04:00And the decision of the coming Chief Justice, the constitutional decision,

04:04you are not implementing it.

04:06Politically, how does it play out for you?

04:08To, you know, just kind of not do it.

04:11When a new Chief Justice is coming.

04:13See, personalities don't matter.

04:15Institutions matter.

04:17And some people came, some people left.

04:20People coming and going doesn't matter.

04:23As long as the institution is not strong,

04:25as long as the institution does not work in its constitutional framework,

04:28then it will have some effect on the institution.

04:31And the institution itself bears its effect.

04:34So, obviously,

04:36Chief Justices came before this,

04:38and some have come before this,

04:41and some will come after this.

04:43This thing doesn't matter.

04:44You have to see how you have to strengthen and strengthen the institution.

04:48And that is why,

04:49the package that we are bringing in terms of law reforms, judicial reforms,

04:54and there is a lot of consideration on it,

04:58and a lot of discussion is going on.

05:00And with a broader consensus,

05:02God willing, when the table will be re-established,

05:04the institution will be better.

05:06You have brought this ordinance,

05:08on which you have to make a consensus.

05:09Moulana Fazlur Rehman,

05:11if we could hear his statement,

05:13the way he was talking yesterday,

05:15that this will create a problem,

05:16the way he is talking to the party,

05:18in terms of these law reforms,

05:20because he considers this ordinance to be ill-intentioned.

05:22Let's listen to him,

05:23and then we will take an opinion on it.

05:25I have seen it in detail.

05:29And the work that he could not do in Parliament,

05:31he is bypassing it from Parliament,

05:33and he is bringing it through the ordinance.

05:35So the ordinance will be based on ill-intention,

05:37and there will be objections to it.

05:39When the People's Party has spoken to us,

05:41and we have taken their discussion seriously,

05:43and we very seriously want to agree on these issues,

05:47on the package.

05:49If such an ordinance is issued by the presidency,

05:52then obviously,

05:54he is the president,

05:56but he is also the co-chairman of the People's Party,

05:58so he is changing the direction of his party,

06:02between the Pakistani Party and the JYP,

06:05between Muffa Ahmed and Ruka Uttar.

06:07So you want Maulana's vote in the future,

06:10so he has a clear position on this,

06:12and still has it.

06:13So in the ordinance,

06:14he has clearly said that it is ill-intentioned,

06:16and the negotiation will have an effect on it.

06:18Look Maria, this is an ordinance,

06:20but it does not mean that it will not be presented.

06:22Obviously,

06:23because Parliament and Senate are not in session,

06:25neither is the National Assembly in session,

06:27or the Senate in session.

06:28The ordinance has come because of this.

06:30Otherwise,

06:31this government would never have believed in ordinances.

06:33And this is because,

06:34this is for the benefit of the people,

06:38that the composition,

06:39the benches of the constitution,

06:43should not have this delay.

06:46As far as Maulana sir has spoken,

06:48obviously,

06:49but this is simple legislation.

06:50We do not need a two-thirds majority in this.

06:52No, but the two-thirds majority bill you want to bring forward,

06:54in which you need the help of the JOI,

06:56which you are working on right now,

06:57which you are discussing,

06:58does it jeopardize Maulana's own speech?

07:01Not at all.

07:02I think that if Maulana sir has a reservation,

07:04then we will address that as well.

07:05We have not done this with any ill-intention,

07:08or with any ulterior motive.

07:11If we have done this,

07:12then the only reason for doing this is,

07:15that at least the cases should be fixed,

07:17which have been pending for so many years.

07:19There is a lot of sense of urgency last week.

07:21I mean,

07:22it seemed that in 72 hours,

07:24we have to pass the bill,

07:26there are meetings going on till 2 am.

07:28Why are you in such a hurry?

07:30You will say,

07:31we have brought the bill for the welfare of the people.

07:33Is there any timeline?

07:35No, there is no timeline.

07:36What was the sense of urgency last week?

07:38And when the bill was passed,

07:39there is no tension this week.

07:41I will tell you,

07:43I think there can be some miscommunication,

07:47or getting lost in translation.

07:50Our understanding was that,

07:52when all its salient features were told to Maulana,

07:56and we were talking to the allies,

07:58they were told,

07:59that we are covering all these things,

08:01and these things will come.

08:02There was an in-principle agreement with Maulana.

08:05When I came to your show last time,

08:06and you said that the numbers are complete,

08:08so it is obvious,

08:09that is why I said that the numbers are complete,

08:11because of the fact that there was a principle agreement.

08:14All these parties agreed,

08:16they sat together,

08:17they felt that it is absolutely right.

08:19That is why,

08:21Then why didn't you show the agreement?

08:22I did show the agreement.

08:23Maulana sir said that,

08:24one day before,

08:25one night before,

08:26Kamran Murtaza sir got the agreement,

08:27Mingle sir didn't get the agreement,

08:29I don't know,

08:30Nawaz Sharif sir,

08:31according to some people,

08:32he didn't see the agreement,

08:33he got angry and left.

08:34How true is this?

08:35How false is this?

08:36Maulana sir didn't see it.

08:37MQM says,

08:38we didn't see the agreement,

08:39I don't know when the People's Party got the agreement.

08:41What kind of consensus legislation is this,

08:43in which till the last moment,

08:44everyone kept asking for the agreement?

08:45I think,

08:46there was a working paper,

08:48and it was not finalized.

08:49And all these things,

08:50we had discussed with Mariham.

08:52It is not that,

08:53there was no discussion.

08:54The points were the same.

08:55When Masawirda came in front,

08:57everyone saw,

08:58they said,

08:59it talks about Constitutional Codes.

09:01There are two different versions.

09:02People's Party says,

09:03we had a different document.

09:04JUIF says,

09:05we had a different document.

09:06Original document,

09:07we didn't see it.

09:08I don't know,

09:09it may be present somewhere.

09:10We may quote it tomorrow.

09:11You may go back and say,

09:12this is not an original document.

09:13So,

09:14what kind of consensus,

09:15again I am trying to ask you.

09:16I think,

09:17the modus operandi,

09:18or getting lost in translation,

09:21or miscommunication,

09:22it was our understanding,

09:24and our thinking that,

09:26because we have principally agreed on everything,

09:30the session should be called.

09:32Again,

09:33I think,

09:34in hindsight now,

09:35it is better,

09:36that a broader consensus is developing,

09:38a consensus is being formed,

09:41and Constitutional Amendments,

09:42are never hidden.

09:44This is for the benefit of the people.

09:46And,

09:47I think,

09:48it is better now,

09:49after this whole situation,

09:50after last Sunday,

09:51that one thing is open,

09:53and with that,

09:54Bar Councils,

09:55Bar Associations,

09:56apart from that,

09:57other political parties,

09:59whether they are on any side of the aisle,

10:01and with that,

10:02civil society.

10:03Now,

10:04we are discussing with all of them.

10:05So,

10:06we have seen Maulana's version,

10:07we have seen the People's Party version.

10:08Show us your paper,

10:10so that we can all have a discussion.

10:12You also talked about civil society.

10:14Where is your paper?

10:16Our paper is with us,

10:17because we have prepared it.

10:18So, where is it hidden?

10:20No, it is not hidden.

10:21I mean,

10:22if you want,

10:23I can send you the copy.

10:24Please do.

10:25We would really love that,

10:26that we also see,

10:27that in your version,

10:28in Maulana's version,

10:29in Bilawal's version,

10:30what were the problems,

10:31which you could not come to an agreement on?

10:32When will you make the next attempt?

10:35When,

10:36you cannot have a proper understanding,

10:40or,

10:41it is obvious,

10:42because,

10:43all the elected bodies of lawyers,

10:45the law minister,

10:46took them in confidence,

10:48and told them everything.

10:50The points under discussion,

10:51regarding civil society,

10:52he did all those things.

10:54And Maria,

10:55this has become their committee,

10:57which,

10:58in seven days,

10:59will give their suggestions,

11:01on this whole thing.

11:03When those seven days pass,

11:05you can say,

11:06expectedly,

11:07first week of October,

11:09but I will not say anything final.

11:11I will definitely say that,

11:13even if it goes till mid-October,

11:15at least,

11:16a broader consensus should develop,

11:19and there should be no objections from any side,

11:21and this should pass,

11:23because,

11:24in the interest of the people,

11:25the judicial reforms,

11:26legal reforms,

11:27regarding that,

11:28the benefit of that should also go to the people.

11:30Thank you very much.

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