Interview with Anthony Mangieri, founder of Una Pizza Napoletana and Genio Della Frozen Pizza, about his unorthodox approach to building a business and scaling a CPG brand.
Anthony Mangieri proves that two brands can be built simultaneously, but still separate.
As the founder of Una Pizza Napoletana — and now Genio Della Pizza — he has redefined success in the pizza world through relentless hard work, authenticity, and strategic growth. Just like an athlete.
Mangieri's journey involves a high level of grit and determination. Having moved his pioneering Napoletana-style Una Pizza and navigating a number of iterations before settling in the single Lower East Side location, Magieri built his pizza empire with the same discipline and sacrifice that an athlete dedicates to their sport.
The famous pizza chef worked to limit distractions as much as possible.
Anthony Mangieri proves that two brands can be built simultaneously, but still separate.
As the founder of Una Pizza Napoletana — and now Genio Della Pizza — he has redefined success in the pizza world through relentless hard work, authenticity, and strategic growth. Just like an athlete.
Mangieri's journey involves a high level of grit and determination. Having moved his pioneering Napoletana-style Una Pizza and navigating a number of iterations before settling in the single Lower East Side location, Magieri built his pizza empire with the same discipline and sacrifice that an athlete dedicates to their sport.
The famous pizza chef worked to limit distractions as much as possible.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to Restaurant Influencers, presented by Entrepreneur.
00:09My name is Sean Walchef, I am your host.
00:11This is a Cali BBQ Media production.
00:14In life, in the restaurant business, and in the new creator economy, we learn through
00:19lessons and stories.
00:21Today I have the honor and the pleasure of talking to a true craftsman.
00:27We started this show to inspire restauranteurs, would-be restauranteurs, hospitality professionals
00:33to think differently.
00:34Obviously, we have barbecue restaurants here in San Diego.
00:38We've been doing it for 16 years, but we created a media company on top of our barbecue restaurant.
00:43Our goal is to share the stories of innovators, not just in the hospitality space, but the
00:49storytelling space, people that are doing really cool things with CPG products, alternate
00:54revenue streams.
00:55It's hard business, the restaurant business.
00:57Today we have Anthony Mangieri, and he is literally a legend when it comes to the pizza
01:04business.
01:05We're going to get into his story, but it's Una Pizza Napoletana, ranked number one pizza
01:12in the world by top 50 pizza in 2022.
01:18His story is incredible.
01:19I'm going to start with, as I was doing research for this episode, there was a quote that kept
01:24coming back to me.
01:25It's one of my favorite quotes, and it's from Michelangelo.
01:29It says, I saw the angel in the marble, and I kept carving until I set him free.
01:36Anthony, welcome to the show.
01:39Thank you.
01:40Thanks, man.
01:41Have you made the perfect pizza yet?
01:44No.
01:45I've been close, I think, at least in the moment that particular moment of what I was
01:54looking for.
01:55Close, but never perfect.
01:58Well, we're going to get into your story.
02:01I'm so excited to have you on the show.
02:03I have tried the pizzas that you now are shipping nationwide, Gino Della Pizza.
02:11We unboxed.
02:12My family, my wall chef Wolfpack, my son, my daughter, my wife, we unboxed the pizzas.
02:18The packaging is beautiful, but more importantly, how delicious the pizza tastes, because as
02:24I hear your story, I can't wait to go to New York to one day hopefully find one of those
02:29precious seats at your restaurant, because you've been doing this for decades now, and
02:34you've dedicated your life to this craft.
02:38Tell me, let's start at the beginning.
02:41Let's start back when you first opened up the bakery.
02:46Bring us back.
02:47Bring us back, Gino.
02:48Bring us back.
02:49Bring us back, Gino.
02:50Bring us back.
02:51Yeah.
02:52We want to set the stage properly.
02:53Yeah.
02:54Yeah.
02:55Cool.
02:56Just shut me down if I start going too far off the path or deeper, getting lost on Cub
03:00Scout stories.
03:01That's totally cool with us.
03:03Yeah.
03:04I grew up in an Italian-American family in New Jersey, and I was very close with my grandmother.
03:12I lived with her a lot of the time.
03:15She was across the street from us, so I stayed with her quite a bit.
03:20I, at a young age, fell in love with history and family and roots and that kind of stuff.
03:27Then I discovered music and skateboarding and all that.
03:33Those things kind of parallelly were my life.
03:39I just fell in love with food and baking and the magic of baking and the mysteries of baking.
03:45It seemed like something that I just couldn't totally ever get a handle around, and that
03:51really excited me at a young age.
03:55Also just the history of baking, like the idea of working with the wood-burning oven
03:59and hand-mixing dough and all these things that I would read about.
04:03I became pretty obsessed with it pretty early on and really fully obsessed by the age of
04:11where it was like I was into skateboarding, punk rock music.
04:15I wanted to get a bunch of tattoos that my mom wouldn't let me.
04:19But at the same time, I was like, I want to bake bread, which was not cool back then at
04:23all.
04:24Yeah, man, there was no internet back then.
04:28There was no way to access information easily.
04:31There weren't really any bakeries where I grew up that I was super in love with, so
04:35I just started going to the library and reading every single book I could find on bread and
04:42Italy and baking and dragging my mother to Italy as soon as we started to do that.
04:50Then that's when it really opened my mind.
04:52Everything I found over there just tasted so exotic to me and foreign compared to what
04:59I grew up that was very Italian-American, and then that really set me off on my path.
05:04Then I finally was able to open a tiny little bakery.
05:09I think I was like 21 years old when I opened that in New Jersey.
05:14My dad and mom helped me do that financially.
05:16I mean, it was a shoestring of a place.
05:19My dad and I built everything in there.
05:21We had a wood-burning oven in the center of this room, and then we built a little wall
05:27to create like a front area where people could come in and buy the breads.
05:31I hand-mixed everything.
05:32I didn't have a mixing machine, and I would go in there and start baking at like 4 o'clock
05:40in the afternoon.
05:41I would bake all the way through the night and then open up at 8 o'clock in the morning
05:45and then sit in there and sell the bread.
05:47I had no employees.
05:48I did that for a couple of years, and it was a lot of learning.
05:53I didn't know much at the point that I opened that, so it was a lot to discover and figure
05:58out.
05:59Everything was all over the place.
06:01The products were all over the place.
06:02I'd have customers come in one day and be like,
06:05Oh, my God, I got the bread last week.
06:06It was so amazing.
06:08I could taste all the yeast.
06:10And I'd be like, Oh, no, I don't want people to taste all these.
06:13I'm trying to change that.
06:16But the cool thing back then is you had this space to grow and figure things out because
06:23there wasn't that immediate like on social media.
06:26I went to this place.
06:27It sucks.
06:28Don't go there.
06:29And you're like, Oh, my God, my dreams are crushed.
06:31I could suck at what I did for a long time, and no one would really know about it except
06:35for the 20 people that came in to try the bread.
06:40Una Pizza, the first iteration, day one.
06:45Bring us back to opening day of the original location.
06:51Day one was I shut the bakery, and I was going to give up.
06:57And I was going to get a job in Atlantic City.
06:59My dad worked in Atlantic City in the union, and I was going to go down there and get a job
07:05doing whatever.
07:05I was like, I don't care.
07:06I'll just be a janitor or whatever.
07:08I don't even care.
07:10I'm giving up.
07:11And I found this spot not too far from where I grew up near the beach.
07:16The rent was super cheap.
07:18I had saved a little bit of money.
07:20I had some of the equipment from the bakery, and this place was all tiled and stuff.
07:26It used to be a Carvel, I think, ice cream shop.
07:29So it was all tiled, yellow and white, and looked like an ice cream shop, but it was
07:34pretty big.
07:35And I was like, I'm going to try it.
07:37I'm going to give this.
07:38Because my dream when I opened the bakery already was to have a pizzeria, but that seemed
07:44like just too far of a concept for me at that point because I didn't understand how would
07:50I be able to have employees and get tables and have a public restroom.
07:56I mean, you have to think this all sounds so crazy now, but we're going back to 1996
08:02when I opened the first pizzeria.
08:06Excuse me.
08:06And so when I saw this spot, I was like, I'm going to go for it.
08:11And so I signed a lease.
08:14The guy that owned the building was from Calabria, and he was supportive of me going in there
08:19at first and made it pretty easy.
08:21I didn't have financials.
08:23I didn't have like anything to show him or like, I have this much money in the bank.
08:28It was kind of like I got like 20 grand and some equipment that I can shove in here.
08:34Let's try it.
08:35Because I figured, you know what?
08:37I was like, man, if I don't try this, I'm never going to do it because I was already
08:43kind of given up because the bakery killed me.
08:45It crushed me.
08:46You know, I was young.
08:48It wasn't successful.
08:49It was successful in the sense that I figured out how to bake bread better than when I started,
08:54but people didn't get it.
08:56It was so far ahead of like when people understood like wood burning, baked breads and thick
09:04crust and all that kind of stuff.
09:06So I was just like, I'm going to do it.
09:08I'm going to try this.
09:09It was my dream.
09:10I'm going to open the pizzeria and I'll give it a shot.
09:13And so that was it.
09:14And I did it.
09:15Where'd you come up with the name?
09:20I made it up.
09:21I just kept trying to think of like something that meant what I thought I wanted to translate
09:26to people, which was this is a Neapolitan pizza.
09:30And again, now I don't really even connect with that, but it's been 30 years.
09:36So there's been hopefully some evolution in my work, my mind, the way I approach things.
09:41But then I did it so open hearted and innocently.
09:45And I was like, man, there's nothing like what I tasted Naples in America.
09:50I knew I could make it.
09:52I had experimented in the bakery with the wood burning oven and knew that like if I
09:58focused, I could pull this off.
10:00And so I wanted to come up with a name that was like just saying what it is.
10:05It wasn't like anything else.
10:07It's like be like opening a place and being like burgers.
10:10I was like, but imagine no one in America ever heard of a burger.
10:14Right.
10:15That was my thinking.
10:16It was like, I'm not coming up with some made up thing like, you know, whatever.
10:22I don't know the Leaning Tower of Pisa or something or gondola.
10:25I was like, we're not going to do that.
10:27I want to just be like, it's a Neapolitan pizza.
10:30How do you work on your craft?
10:33You know, you work on your craft by never thinking you're good enough.
10:39That's how I work on my craft.
10:41I don't accept what I did yesterday as being my best or that that's the end of the road.
10:48So every single minute of every day, I want to be better at what I'm doing.
10:54You know, it's just that simple.
10:56It's not BS.
10:57It's not like anything else.
11:00That's it.
11:00If you go into work every day and you're like, I'm going at it like my life depends on it.
11:05I think you can only get better at your craft, you know.
11:10And now a quick break from restaurant influencers to welcome our newest sponsor to the show.
11:15It's Zach Oates, the founder of Ovation.
11:18Ovation is helping restaurants to improve operations with the human touch.
11:23We are a guest experience show.
11:26We are a guest experience platform for multi-unit restaurants like Friendly's,
11:30Muya, PDQ, Taziki's and even Cali BBQ with thousands of others that starts with a two
11:36question survey and drives revenue, location level improvement and guest recovery.
11:40So here's how it works.
11:42The guest answers two questions.
11:44The first one is how is your experience?
11:45And then from there, happy guests are invited to do things that are going to drive revenue
11:50and unhappy guests share privately what went wrong.
11:53So you and your team can resolve that concern in real time.
11:56Our AI will even help you do that.
11:58Then the magic happens.
11:59We take all the public reviews.
12:01We take all the Ovation feedback.
12:03We categorize it using our AI and give you detailed feedback in 34 restaurant specific
12:09categories to improve your operations.
12:11So we make sure that guests feel good, that you look good.
12:14And if you're interested in learning more, visit OvationUp.com forward slash Sean,
12:18because any listener of Sean's is a friend of Ovation's.
12:23One of the things I love about your story is that, you know, frequently on this show,
12:33we have restaurant tours that become successful.
12:37And our idea of success is multiple locations, multiple states, international brands.
12:45What you've been able to do is ignore the noise and really focus on the thing that you
12:51love and the thing that you're passionate about.
12:53And because of that focus, that immense obsession
12:58of your love, international press has come to you.
13:02International stories, accolades have come to you and your brand.
13:06How do you remain true to all that noise?
13:11You know, I mean, I think obviously it's tricky sometimes because, you know,
13:17the restaurant business is such a tough place to survive.
13:21You know, I've had so many moments in my career where I've been in so much debt with credit cards
13:27and just trying to get through and figure out what in the hell am I doing?
13:33And then the thing is, the longer you stay in it, you're like, well, I'm not going to do anything.
13:39What else am I going to do?
13:40I'm like, whatever.
13:40At that point, you're like, I'm pretty much unemployable.
13:44So like, I'm going to keep figuring out how to do this.
13:47Somehow, and I guess I'll sleep in the restaurant if need be, which I've done.
13:52So, you know, I mean, the noise is not always easy to keep out because sometimes you're like,
13:59man, I wish somebody would come and save me.
14:01You know, I wish some restaurant group would swoop in and see my value and offer me,
14:08you know, $500,000 a year salary.
14:10And I'm not going to have to worry about all this crap anymore and
14:14finally be able to breathe and be a normal human being,
14:17or at least what I think normal people do.
14:23But man, I don't know, like for me, it's just,
14:26I approach it almost like how I guess even an athlete would approach something.
14:31It's like, you know, if you want to be really good at something,
14:34you need to put everything into it.
14:36You need to put the time into it.
14:38The grind is for real.
14:40There's just no way around it.
14:42Everyone else nowadays, I feel like, you know, when I started out, being a cook was not cool.
14:49Like I had tattoos for probably eight years of my career.
14:53I wore long sleeves working in the pizzeria because back then,
14:57if people came in and saw you making food with tattoos,
15:00they were pretty much assuming that you probably were in prison and you're a total loser
15:05and you're not clean.
15:07So, you know, it just wasn't cool to be like
15:10tattooed and cooking.
15:11Somewhere along the way from Food Network and all the other things, it became cool,
15:16which is good for us because we're able to have these successful lives now from that to some degree.
15:23But I think the downside of that is that it gets harder for younger people to keep the noise out
15:29because they go into it, they go to CIA or whatever they do,
15:33they get out, they win a James Beard award in their first six months out,
15:38and boom, they're like, I'm open in seven places.
15:41And you don't ever see them cooking again.
15:44They're just like in there.
15:45They become more of a businessman.
15:47And to me, I've always felt like, not for nothing, if you want to be a businessman,
15:54there's probably a lot better ways to make a living than being a cook.
15:57Like become a lawyer.
15:59Like business law is where the money's at, man.
16:01Not cooking, not making pizza or anything else.
16:05You know what I mean?
16:06Just go to business school, man.
16:08Learn how to become a banker.
16:10I don't know.
16:13I love the approach.
16:15When you talk about the athlete, I'm a huge fan of Kobe Bryant and the Mamba mentality.
16:20My grandfather was a Bulgarian that was an immigrant.
16:23He was born on a farm.
16:24And so much of what I do, not just in the barbecue side of our business,
16:28but the storytelling side of our business, you're so right.
16:31As people see media, they see the show, they see the podcast and like,
16:35oh, Sean, you have a show with entrepreneur.
16:37You get to interview all these incredible famous people.
16:39How do you do that?
16:40And well, for five years, no one listened to anything.
16:44For five years.
16:45And in the beginning, when we started making barbecue on the West Coast,
16:48everyone laughed at us.
16:49People still laugh at us and make fun of us.
16:51You put a post on Instagram recently on pizza day.
16:54And you said, this is your 13,000th day consecutive at the craft approximate.
17:02Tell me about that commitment.
17:04Well, it's like we were just saying, I think it's just a continuation of that.
17:08I think like, you know, people do see the good side.
17:11And honestly, that's great, because like at the end of the day,
17:14for at least when you're coming into the space of like doing a pizza,
17:19it's about the hospitality and the experience.
17:21And I want to have people come in and see our gratitude.
17:25And we treat people with a lot of gratitude.
17:27And we're super grateful that we're busy.
17:29And we give all the love to it.
17:32But they don't see and we don't need them to see.
17:34But if we're going to talk about it as a business and a way of approaching things
17:38behind the scenes, like Kobe Bryant, all these people like you don't get there
17:43without pushing yourself to the limits.
17:45It's just that simple.
17:47That's the secret to everything.
17:48And I think that's the case in any field.
17:51You know, I just think if you're going to go into it,
17:54why not go into it with the idea of like,
17:56I want to really understand everything in my space
18:01and really become an expert at everything in my space.
18:05And don't approach it like a concept.
18:07Approach it more like a life's work.
18:09I think that's really where you switch that mentality.
18:12It's not, this is my new concept.
18:15That's, and you know what, man, at the end of the day,
18:17it's like, I don't care.
18:18People do all that other stuff.
18:19It's great.
18:20I love a lot of those restaurants.
18:22I eat in a lot of them.
18:23But for me personally, my mentality is this is a life's work.
18:28And I'm going to be doing this until I drop dead in one form or another.
18:33Hopefully, I can be in a safe financial place.
18:37And I can do it in a way that I'm not like,
18:39oh, I got to make this many pieces or I'm not going to pay the bills.
18:43That's the goal.
18:44But you know, this is a life's work.
18:46This is like, you know, the same approach like, you know,
18:50my dad was an electrician.
18:51It's like these people were mechanics.
18:54They were welders.
18:55They were electricians.
18:56They were jazz musicians, whatever they were.
18:59This is what you did for a living, you know, and that's it.
19:02And sometimes people are successful at it and understand
19:06how to navigate that world that they're in better than others.
19:09And other, or maybe they just are a harder worker,
19:12or they put more of a grind into it and they get more successful.
19:15But I think if you always come back and center yourself
19:20in what is the purpose of what you're doing,
19:23and if your purpose is to have 20 restaurants and not really cooked,
19:27then great.
19:28And that's a different thing than, you know, no, no, no ill will towards that.
19:32But for us, that's not our path.
19:34You share for the audience that doesn't know,
19:37what are your hours of operation?
19:40My hour.
19:40So before I say, because every time I say this, people are like,
19:44oh my God, you got the life, man.
19:46I'm like, first of all,
19:49I'm going to build, I'm going to set this up first.
19:52Set the stage.
19:53I will, because I can't stand when people are like,
19:56oh, they're always like fist pumping.
19:57They're like, yeah, yeah, you figured it out.
19:59I'm like, no, you're fist pumping me,
20:01but you're driving like a really nice car
20:03and you're going to a restaurant for an hour every night.
20:06That's the difference here.
20:07Like I'm in there from when we start in the morning until we close.
20:11So first of all, I was open six days a week pre-COVID.
20:16And then I built another restaurant during that.
20:18So I was going in, making dough,
20:21taking the ferry down, doing construction,
20:23taking the ferry back, doing night service.
20:26And I did this six days a week.
20:28And then on my day off, I did construction only.
20:30Then I opened this other restaurant two weeks before COVID.
20:34I shut the one down in the city
20:37and I focused on takeout at the one in New Jersey for two years.
20:40Super successful, lots of love in New Jersey.
20:44They really supported it.
20:45Knowing that I had to come back and reopen this
20:48and this is where I needed to be
20:50and where I just need to be for what I do for now.
20:56But I said to myself, man, if I come back and I have no investors,
20:59I own this restaurant completely independently.
21:02I don't answer to anybody.
21:03I don't owe anybody anything.
21:05It's all me.
21:06But I said to myself, when I reopen this place,
21:09there's no way in hell I'm going back to six days a week.
21:12I'm 52 years old.
21:14I'm going to drop dead if I do that or I can do it and not be there.
21:19So I made a scary decision and I was like, you know what?
21:23I'm going to open three days a week and see what happens,
21:26which is what I did when I very, very first started in New Jersey.
21:30But at that time, I was living at home and didn't have a car.
21:32So it wasn't too much of a consequence if it didn't work out.
21:36I mean, it was like a mountain bike in the other days
21:38and hanging out with my friends.
21:40It doesn't matter.
21:41But I was like, I'm going to go all the way back to the way it started.
21:45And I am never going to have this restaurant open unless I am there
21:50and I'm making every single dough ball served.
21:53And I'm never going to change that.
21:55And that's because I want to give people every ounce of my soul to this place.
21:59So yes, we're open three days a week.
22:02We're open Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
22:04We open at five until we sell out.
22:06But I'm in there by 9 a.m. and I leave at midnight.
22:10And that's three days in a row.
22:11And I'm usually in there on Wednesday doing some prep and stuff.
22:14And then I have my other company that I'm the CEO of and founder,
22:17which is a second full-time job.
22:20Trey Lockerbie Which is what?
22:21Scott Kerby Tell us about the CPG.
22:26Trey Lockerbie Yeah, yeah.
22:27So this was something that honestly, man, a friend of mine and I talked about
22:35probably 15 years ago when I was in California.
22:38Um, and I really had always wondered,
22:41is there something that I can do outside of what I do,
22:45which is obviously a lot of chefs come to this point in their career,
22:49where they're like, is there a way to make money?
22:51I have a lot of friends that are tattoo artists
22:53or other kind of things where it's like,
22:56every single thing you do is coming from your hand.
22:59So I do this, I get 20 bucks, 20 bucks, 20 bucks, 20 bucks.
23:05And you're like, okay, so eventually, where are we going?
23:09If you really want to be involved in everything like I do.
23:12So I had thought canned tomatoes, olive oil,
23:15all these things that I love and that I use a lot,
23:18but ultimately landed on frozen pizza.
23:21Because it seemed like if that was going to be
23:25something that I stepped into that world with,
23:28one, because I've never had partnered with anyone.
23:31I've never been an ambassador for anybody.
23:33I say no to pretty much everything.
23:36I've never been paid by anybody to rep anything, like nothing.
23:40It's like, if I do this, it should be the thing that if it works,
23:43it's going to be the most impactful.
23:46One, and two, if it works, it's going to have the potential biggest
23:50payout on the back end.
23:51Because my thinking, when we finally did start this,
23:54which was three years ago plus,
23:56and launched a year ago and this past February,
24:00it was two years of R&D to get it to where I wanted it to be.
24:04The idea was, if I can do it,
24:07it should be something that could eventually create that safety net
24:12that I've always dreamt could be possible
24:14without having to sell out what I do.
24:17So that was the plan.
24:20If I did this and it works and I'm proud of it,
24:24which obviously I had to be proud.
24:26I had to make sure I was all in,
24:29that the pizza was as good as it could be,
24:31which I feel like it is,
24:33then here's where we are with it.
24:35And then hopefully, this allows me to always continue the UNA journey
24:41where UNA is its own separate little jewel box.
24:44Instead of being like, I had to open four more locations
24:48and then you go in this other one in some other town
24:51and you're like, eh, it's not that great.
24:54So to me, it felt like such a big risk to walk away
24:58from the almost 30 years of this one location being so special
25:04and risking diluting it.
25:06It seemed like a better idea to create this other thing
25:08that's like, here's this other product that I make
25:11and neither one takes away from either one.
25:14Listening to your story, I'm reminded,
25:16recently I interviewed Jesse Ito,
25:18who's a chef, a Makassi chef in Philly,
25:21and he's just absolutely crushing it.
25:23But if he's not there for service, there is no service.
25:28And it's just so counterintuitive to everything that we see
25:34in the business space, the entrepreneurial space.
25:36It's how big can you, how can you scale it?
25:39And what you've done is so beautiful
25:40because you've figured out a way to scale on the side of the CPG side,
25:47where, like I said, I got to feel the love of your pizza,
25:51of your brand in my home, all the way here on the West Coast,
25:55all the way in San Diego.
25:56And I think that's something that's really cool.
25:59It's really cool.
26:00And it's a testament to how much work and effort you put in.
26:04Because just having spoken to you, having done the research on you,
26:07there's no way you were going to let any pizza
26:10with your name attached to it travel anywhere on earth
26:15if it wasn't going to be the quality standard that you cared about.
26:18Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
26:20Yeah, I mean, no, it was a lot of soul searching.
26:25I mean, I take everything I do very seriously when it comes to work.
26:31And I didn't want to take away from what I've done
26:37or what people expected of me or people that believed in me
26:40or supported coming in and all this stuff
26:43to where it's like, ah, this guy, whatever.
26:45So yeah, man, it was three years.
26:49And it was almost three years of R&D.
26:53Relentlessly, I mean, it should have actually launched before COVID.
26:57But with the COVID, I wasn't able to continue the R&D
27:01at the same level that I was pre, so it didn't.
27:04But yeah, I mean, you know, the idea for me was
27:08to really make a product that I could be proud of
27:11that could make people have a beautiful experience
27:15to just connect with people
27:18and offer them something that I felt like wasn't really in that space
27:24without taking away from UNA.
27:25That's why I didn't name it UNA Pizza Napolitana.
27:28That's why it's not named Anthony Mangieri.
27:30That's why we're not like using UNA in a way where it's like,
27:36I don't want people to like eat this and be like,
27:38that's not what I had at UNA or vice versa.
27:40Maybe somebody eats this and they come into UNA
27:41and they're like, this isn't Genio.
27:43So I wanted both brands to stand on their own
27:47to build on their own.
27:48And both of them have all my love and attention.
27:52I've essentially approached Genio as if it's just UNA
27:56but in a massive scale
27:59because we can make like 50,000 pizzas in one day
28:02as opposed to I make like 150.
28:05So every time I do a production run,
28:07I'm there in the facility driving everyone nuts.
28:10I run around and it's a lot, man.
28:14I mean, honestly, it's a tough, tough business.
28:18What did you learn?
28:18What advice would you give if you had another chef
28:21or restaurant owner that came up to you and said,
28:24what did you learn?
28:24What would you do differently going back
28:26knowing what you know now?
28:29I don't know what I would do differently,
28:34but I would say to them,
28:36make sure if you're going to get into it
28:38that you really truly create a product
28:42that you're proud of and just focus on it.
28:45Give it all your love
28:46like as if you're opening your first restaurant
28:49because I feel like you don't have a second chance
28:52with this stuff.
28:53It's very similar to me,
28:55like the opening of a restaurant.
28:57That first couple of weeks when you're open,
29:00you should kind of know what's up
29:02and know what you're doing
29:03and have a lot of the kinks worked out,
29:05especially if you're further on in your career.
29:08So I approached Genio the same way.
29:10I was like, this thing is not ever being seen
29:14by anyone until the box is cool,
29:17until everything is lined up right,
29:20until the pizza's as far as I can push it.
29:22The pizza's as far as I can push it right now.
29:24My goal and hope is that I can keep pushing it further
29:28and keep pushing it further.
29:30But there's a lot of restrictions
29:33when you're working at a scale
29:34that you don't have when it's just you
29:36and you're in your restaurant.
29:38So I would just say that's my best advice.
29:41Don't listen to the noise again, even that.
29:44There's as much noise right now in CPG as in restaurants.
29:46I mean, the CPG market is out of control.
29:51It's exploded.
29:52And also, I think a lot of people
29:54are getting a pretty quick lesson in that
29:56it's not the restaurant world.
29:59And a lot of the people that you're gonna deal with
30:01don't give a damn about food.
30:03So it's not like when you're in a restaurant
30:05and you're like, here's this beautiful dish I made
30:07and a customer eats it and they're like,
30:09oh my God, this is amazing.
30:10And they pay you for it and they leave
30:12and that's the end of the transaction.
30:14This is like 20 middlemen in between
30:17when you started it and the final customer eats it.
30:21And guess what, those 20 people,
30:23you'll be lucky if two of them even give a damn about food.
30:27It's commodities, it's numbers, it's promos, it's ads.
30:31It's really a cutthroat business.
30:34And a lot of chefs that are getting into this,
30:37I think are finding out pretty quick
30:38that it's a tough space to live in
30:41and very tough to survive.
30:43You know, you gotta-
30:44How do you find the right partners?
30:48Partners in which side of it?
30:49In the production.
30:50Yeah, the production side.
30:52The production.
30:53Man, I mean, again, I think you need to really vet everybody
30:57and I would say make sure that they're people
31:01that are like-minded and that you can grow with.
31:04I think one thing that I did purposely and was my goal
31:09and which also unfortunately made that R&D time
31:11a little slower was I wanted to make sure
31:14that once we launched it,
31:17if we were fortunate enough for people to like it,
31:20I was ready to scale it.
31:22It wasn't like I launched it and I sent it to you
31:25and you're like, dude, I love this.
31:27Where can I get it?
31:28And I'm like, well, we're making like 100 a week
31:30in the restaurant and flash freezing them in the back room.
31:33I wanted it to be like, you love it
31:35and you're like the buyer at Whole Foods
31:37and you're like, I wanna take it nationally.
31:38I'm like, okay, fine, no problem.
31:40Because what you're tasting now is our pizza at its worst.
31:45It's never gonna be below where you're getting it.
31:48So you're already experiencing
31:50what we actually will be selling to the public.
31:53It's not like, here's this thing
31:54that's not really what's gonna end up in the food stores.
31:57It's like, here's this thing that is actually the product.
32:01This is it.
32:02And it may even be better in six months or a year,
32:04but this is where we're at now
32:06and there's no limits on our scalability.
32:08So I would say, if you're gonna do a CPG,
32:12build it out from day one to scale.
32:15Don't backpedal it and get it out there
32:18and then have to go and find a co-packer
32:20who's gonna drive you nuts
32:21because you're gonna have this beautiful created product
32:24that you made in your restaurant kitchen
32:27with your own hands.
32:28And then you're gonna be like, but they don't get it.
32:30You should just go from day one being like,
32:32I'm building a product that's scalable.
32:34Otherwise, why get into CPG?
32:36Just do it at the restaurant.
32:39The idea of CPG is how do you get something out
32:42to the masses outside of your little world
32:44that you're living in?
32:45And hopefully do it in a way that's impactful,
32:48meaningful, and touches people
32:50when they experience whatever you created.
32:52I think the magic in what you just said
32:56is this is the pizza at its worst.
32:58And the difference between what you sell
33:01in the CPG space and everybody else
33:04is they think it's done.
33:06You don't think it's done.
33:08I hope so.
33:08You will continue to iterate on that pizza
33:10that is in that box.
33:12I will.
33:13You will continue.
33:14I will, I will.
33:15Relentlessly.
33:16I hope so.
33:18I think that that's the least we can do
33:20for the public and the customers.
33:23I mean, again, it goes back to,
33:25I think one of the things that is beautiful
33:28with chefs entering the CPG space
33:31and one of the things that's not beautiful
33:34that already exists in the CPG space
33:36and these legacy brands
33:37that you're just never,
33:40you're effed trying to compete with
33:43across the board.
33:43Like there's just no,
33:44you're like this next to them.
33:49But the thing that we have, chefs,
33:54is that we actually care,
33:56one, about food,
33:58two, about hospitality.
34:00And these CPG companies don't know anything
34:03about hospitality
34:05and they don't know anything about food.
34:07So I think that's where we come in
34:10and it's like, yeah, we don't have much,
34:11but we have this knowledge
34:13that you guys don't have.
34:15And if you keep banging and banging,
34:17I feel like there can be a disruption
34:20in that space, slowly chipping away.
34:23Because ultimately what you're trying to do
34:26is get a product out into the hands of people
34:29who aren't coming into your space.
34:31But if you can do that
34:33with the same mentality as hospitality
34:36and really have like a love going out
34:38and a true commitment to innovating
34:40and making your product better and better,
34:42like you were saying,
34:43you're already like beyond like a Nestle.
34:46You're already beyond like these DiGiorno brands
34:50and everybody else.
34:50Because like I don't think
34:53they're sitting in their office being like,
34:55man, this whatever crap they're making,
35:01this thing has got to be better.
35:04They're like, this thing has got to cost us
35:06a half a cent less, you know?
35:09That's exactly right.
35:11So like, that's the only thing we can bring
35:13because otherwise we have nothing.
35:15What are we bringing?
35:16Like, what's the point?
35:17You know, there's no point.
35:19You can't compete with the way
35:21they're playing the game.
35:22So you have to bring you and the truth
35:24and being a cook and hospitality
35:27and love of customers
35:29and gratitude towards customers.
35:31And that connects into the idea
35:34that then the product
35:35should continuously be better,
35:37not continuously figure out a way
35:40to make it cheaper
35:41so that we can get where we want to be.
35:43Because I am a believer,
35:45maybe it's not a sprint,
35:46but then it's a marathon,
35:48that if you keep pushing
35:50and getting better
35:51and making things better,
35:53eventually the world does come to you.
35:55People come to you.
35:57It's not like, okay, boom,
35:58we launched this product.
36:00We just got bought for $400 million.
36:02I mean, granted, believe me,
36:04if somebody's listening,
36:04they want to do that.
36:07We'll get you the address.
36:10We'll go $300 million, it's cool.
36:12I'll be living in Malibu riding my bike
36:13all week in the super tan,
36:14which is the ultimate dream.
36:16But like, in the meantime,
36:19you know, like it's not a sprint,
36:21it's the marathon.
36:22So eventually we will succeed in this
36:27because we're not going to back down
36:28from making it a great product
36:30and really trying to have customer service
36:33in the best way we can within CPG.
36:37What is the obsession with tomato label art?
36:44For me, or you mean?
36:46For you.
36:47I mean, I just love it, man.
36:49Well, again, I think it connects to history.
36:53It's like, you know,
36:54I was talking to somebody the other day
36:57and they were like, man,
36:58like what's, you know,
37:00when people get into a restaurant,
37:02I wonder what their vision is
37:03of like what they want it to be.
37:05Like, forget about like James Beard Award,
37:07forget about a Michelin star,
37:08forget about I'm now under an umbrella
37:10of a restaurant group
37:11and I have 25 restaurants and blah, blah, blah.
37:14But like, what was the vision in the beginning?
37:17Like what made you decide to become a cook
37:20and not become like a welder
37:22or a banker or a doctor or whatever?
37:25And for me, I can remember so clearly thinking
37:30how amazing and my dream would be
37:32to have a pizzeria where you go by
37:35and it's in a city setting or a downtown
37:38and I'm able to sit out front on a little wooden stool
37:40in between making pizza
37:42and like the front door is open
37:44because it's nice out.
37:45And in the old days,
37:47all the Italian markets would have like a pyramid
37:51of canned tomatoes in the window
37:53and I always wanted to do that.
37:55And that is in my head so deep
37:58and even to this day in UNA,
38:00I don't have a window like that
38:01but I have tomato cans,
38:04a row of them done very beautifully
38:06but all the way around the entire perimeter
38:09of the restaurant as like a nod to this thing,
38:12all different kinds,
38:13ones that I use, ones that I don't use,
38:15but just labels and brands
38:18and these things like I just love that kind of art.
38:22I also love like the art on the boxes
38:25of produce from California.
38:27Some of that is so epic.
38:29Oh my God.
38:30It's like amazing.
38:32Like I just love that kind of stuff.
38:35For, we obviously talk about storytelling a lot
38:38and we are so lucky to live in 2024
38:42and not have to go and create Instagram
38:44or TikTok or Spotify or YouTube.
38:47We have the ability as business owners,
38:48as chefs to share our story
38:50and to speak our truth.
38:52You have an incredible Instagram page.
38:54One of my favorite videos is you going
38:56and picking out the tabletops.
39:00Can you share a little bit
39:01about your Instagram strategy?
39:03Why you bring people in not,
39:05because so much of what we try to do
39:07with this show is let other restaurant owners know
39:10it's people care about the why.
39:13As much as they care about the sexy pizza
39:16and the bread and all of the amazing food
39:18that we cook, they also care about you.
39:20And like, I care about those,
39:23the tomato label story.
39:24That's phenomenal.
39:25I absolutely love that.
39:27And I know that I'm not alone.
39:29Tell me about the video side of your business
39:32and why you make those videos on Instagram.
39:35Yeah.
39:35I mean, I agree with you.
39:37I mean, I think it's important
39:39to kind of show people like what goes on
39:42a little bit behind the scenes
39:44and a little bit of like,
39:46again, back to that attention to detail,
39:48like, you know, those tomato
39:51or the tabletops, for example,
39:54that was like something, again,
39:55that like this was the only
39:58UNA that I've ever had in 30 years
40:00where the tabletops were not marble.
40:04And it's just like,
40:06for the last six years in this location,
40:08I've been like,
40:09and I've changed everything in there.
40:11Like literally, like, I mean,
40:12I'm changing stuff like every week.
40:14I just had penny tile
40:15put around the pizza station.
40:17Like I'm always trying to,
40:19nobody notices.
40:20We laugh, me and my guys that work together,
40:22like somebody will come in
40:23and it'll be like,
40:24is that new?
40:25It'll be the only thing that's not new.
40:27Yeah.
40:28Oh my God.
40:28We changed the floors.
40:29They were white.
40:30Now they're black.
40:30And they're noticing like this other thing
40:32that has nothing to do with anything.
40:34But it's for us.
40:35It's for inspiration.
40:36It's for just fine tuning, fine tuning.
40:40And so with the tabletops
40:42or with anything with videos on Instagram,
40:45I think it's just to kind of show people
40:47like this idea about details.
40:50Details matter, you know?
40:52Like I just think that is again
40:55back to the same idea
40:56of like the foundational things
40:58and like really deep diving into things
41:01and focusing on them.
41:02And so we like to share that with people
41:05and kind of show them
41:06like some of the stuff that we do.
41:08But we also on our Instagram,
41:11I try not like to have it be too wordy
41:14because I don't like to get into stuff.
41:17Yeah.
41:17Because like, I mean, as you can tell,
41:18like I'm not afraid to chit chat
41:20or get into stuff, you know?
41:23But for that platform,
41:26I lean a little bit more for me
41:28towards the idea of like,
41:30here, you do whatever you need to do with this
41:34instead of explaining it
41:35or trying to sell it
41:36or shove it down people's throats.
41:38You know, I'd rather it be like
41:41something that's inspiring,
41:42whether it is a beautiful picture of a pizza
41:44or it's like, here we are,
41:46like, you know,
41:47picking out these marble tabletops,
41:48which as I was saying,
41:49it'd been something that was my last thing
41:53that I really wanted to do
41:55in this location for so many years.
41:57And we have these good friends
41:58that have an incredible tile marble business
42:02in Queens.
42:03And finally, we're like, we're going to do it.
42:05So we went over there
42:07and we went to the marble yard
42:09and picked out,
42:09I looked at like slabs of marble
42:11and decided what parts of the tables
42:13we would want to be cut
42:15and like all this stuff to really,
42:17again, just be like, this matters.
42:20Like this little detail matters.
42:21Like everything in my place is very personal.
42:25You know, all the art on the walls
42:27is from friends of mine.
42:29Like I'm not buying like art and framing it.
42:32It's like I'm getting prints from people.
42:34It's like every single thing in there
42:36is connected to us deeply.
42:40You know, it's like really like,
42:43it's like my home, you know,
42:45it's like the most consistent thing
42:47in my life for 30 years
42:49through stresses and heartbreaks
42:51and sadnesses and happinesses
42:53and everything.
42:55One thing's for sure,
42:56like when I'm in there making pizza,
42:59it's like, this is where,
43:00this is me, you know.
43:03I love that.
43:04I can't tell you, Anthony,
43:06how much I appreciate your perspective,
43:08the gift that you've given
43:10to the entire world sharing your story.
43:12I can't wait to make it to New York.
43:14If you guys are listening to this,
43:16as you know, every single week on LinkedIn
43:18on Wednesday and Friday,
43:20we give you, the listener, the viewer
43:22an opportunity to join us on stage
43:24to tell us about your restaurant.
43:25Tell us about what you're building.
43:27If you're a creator, if you're in sales,
43:29if you're in marketing,
43:30we believe a rising tide lifts all ships.
43:33The internet has given us the ability
43:34to connect with incredible operators
43:36all over the globe.
43:38I hope that you visit Anthony's in New York.
43:42I want to visit you.
43:43I can't wait to visit you.
43:45If you guys want to connect with me,
43:46it's at Sean P. Walcheff,
43:48S-H-A-W-N-P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
43:52We also do a social shout out.
43:54People that have been supporting the show,
43:55supporting our community.
43:57This goes to Joey Meatballs.
43:58You can find him on Instagram.
44:00Joey sells cheese.
44:02He is in the cheese business,
44:04but I saw him at Pizza Expo in Vegas
44:07and he was hustling more
44:09than anyone I've ever seen hustle.
44:10He was making pizza,
44:12connecting with people.
44:13He was going on Instagram live.
44:14Joey, this is a shout out to you, brother.
44:16Really proud of all the work that you do.
44:18Anthony, is there anybody
44:20that's going to listen to this
44:21on Entrepreneur from your team
44:23that you'd like to give one person
44:25that's gone above and beyond recently?
44:27Would you like to shout out?
44:29Mako.
44:30Mako.
44:32Tell me a story.
44:36I got to say two other people,
44:38Shane and Sean.
44:39They've been with me for six years
44:41and they're committed
44:42and such hard workers.
44:43And then Mako, he's young.
44:45He's been with me for two years.
44:48He quit high school
44:50and just worked on his own,
44:53is a master Japanese drummer,
44:56taiko drumming.
44:58And then moved to New York.
45:00I think he started working
45:01with me probably before he was even 21
45:04as a server.
45:05And he has really grown
45:08and stepped into an amazing role
45:10as a project manager for me.
45:11And it's just an all around help.
45:15So very impressive to see him growing
45:17and continue to expand his horizons.
45:19So I think for all of us at the team,
45:21he's been really awesome the last year.
45:24That's awesome.
45:25And do you ever go on vacation?
45:29Yeah.
45:30Yeah.
45:30I mean, well, I go to Italy.
45:31You go four day vacation.
45:33Three days, four days.
45:36A lot.
45:37No, I try to take a vacation.
45:39I'm really the last couple months.
45:42Christina, my girlfriend and my daughter
45:44and everybody is.
45:45And even Mako, everyone at the restaurant
45:47is like, you need to like.
45:50You need to figure out a little balance
45:51because I used to be a lot better at it.
45:53But like with Genio,
45:55I'm really, really like burning it
45:57at both ends right now
45:58because they're both so important.
46:00But I'm trying to get better at it
46:02and focus in a little bit more.
46:04Well, whenever you if you ever make it
46:06to the West Coast and you make it to San Diego,
46:08we would love to host you
46:10and show you the craft of Cali barbecue.
46:12What my pitmasters do,
46:15cooking ribs, cooking brisket.
46:16And that goes for anybody
46:17that's listening to this show.
46:18But that's how we build communities.
46:20We break bread with one another.
46:22Love to have you.
46:23Love to host you.
46:24And I'm truly, truly grateful
46:27to toast our technology partner,
46:29the sponsor of this show,
46:30because, I mean,
46:31if they didn't believe in this show,
46:33I wouldn't be able to have
46:33awesome conversations like this.
46:35I mean, I know that I'm doing
46:36what I'm supposed to be doing
46:37when I get to sit down
46:38and spend some time with you.
46:40Awesome.
46:41And I will be there.
46:42I can't wait.
46:44Thanks.
46:44Appreciate you guys.
46:46Stay curious.
46:46Get involved.
46:47Don't be afraid to ask for help.
46:49We'll catch you guys next week.
46:51Thank you for listening
46:52to Restaurant Influencers.
46:54If you want to get in touch with me,
46:55I am weirdly available
46:57at Sean P. Walchef,
46:58S-H-A-W-N,
47:00P-W-A-L-C-H-E-F.
47:03Cali Barbecue Media has other shows.
47:06You can check out Digital Hospitality.
47:08We've been doing that show since 2017.
47:10We also just launched a show,
47:12Season 2, Family Style,
47:14on YouTube with Toast.
47:16And if you are a restaurant brand
47:18or a hospitality brand
47:19and you're looking to
47:20launch your own show,
47:21Cali Barbecue Media can help you.
47:23Recently, we just launched
47:26Room for Seconds
47:27with Greg Majewski.
47:28It is an incredible insight
47:31into leadership,
47:32into hospitality,
47:33into enterprise restaurants
47:35and franchise,
47:36franchisee relationships.
47:38Take a look at Room for Seconds.
47:40And if you're ready to start a show,
47:42reach out to us,
47:43betheshow.media.
47:45We can't wait to work with you.