The Senate Energy Committee holds a business meeting on pending nominations.
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NewsTranscript
00:00 Energy Regulatory Commission known as FERC. The three nominees are David Rosner, Lindsey
00:04 See, and Judy Chang. I know our members have a lot of commitments this morning, so I'm
00:08 going to keep my opening statement very brief. Mr. Rosner has been employed by the Commission
00:14 as an energy industry analyst for the past seven years. He has been on the detail of
00:19 the Democratic staff of this committee for the past two years, where he has worked with
00:23 both sides on electricity issues. Prior to that, he worked at the Department of Energy
00:28 and at the Bipartisan Policy Center with almost 20 years total in these various capacities.
00:33 He has been nominated to fill the remainder of the term that began on July 2022.
00:39 Lindsey See is currently West Virginia Solicitor General, a post that she has held for the
00:43 past six years. In that role, she has represented my state's legal interests in both state and
00:47 federal courts, including the U.S. Supreme Court. Prior to that, she practiced appellate
00:51 and administrative law at the firm in Washington, D.C. after graduating from Harvard Law School.
00:56 She has been nominated to fill the remainder of the term that began July 1, 2023.
01:03 Judy Chang has more than 20 years' experience working with energy companies, trade associations,
01:06 and governments on energy regulatory financial issues. She previously served as the Undersecretary
01:11 of Energy and Climate Solutions under Massachusetts Governor Charles Baker, a Republican, and
01:16 helped develop Massachusetts' Clean Energy and Climate Plan. She has been nominated for
01:19 a term beginning on July 1, 2024.
01:23 Two of the five seats on the Commission are already vacant, and the third will expire
01:26 at the end of the month. Confirmation of these three nominations will ensure that the Commission
01:30 has a full complement of five commissioners to continue its important work. I believe
01:34 all three are well qualified, and I intend to vote for all three.
01:37 At this time, I want to recognize my friend Senator Brasso for his opening statement.
01:41 Senator Brasso (R) Well, thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for holding today's
01:43 business meeting. This morning, we're going to consider three nominations to the Federal
01:47 Energy Regulatory Commission. Commission, or FERC, is often referred to as the most
01:51 important agency that you've never heard of. FERC regulates the interstate transmission
01:56 of electricity and the interstate transportation of oil and natural gas. It assures that rates
02:00 for electric power in the wholesale market are just and reasonable. It oversees electric
02:06 reliability and its licenses, interstate natural gas pipelines, liquefied natural gas terminals,
02:12 and hydropower projects. By one estimate, the Commission regulates activities that account
02:17 for 7 percent of our nation's economy. And for that reason, we must fulfill our responsibility
02:21 to maintain a quorum on the Commission.
02:24 In 2015 and 2016, President Obama refused to fill the vacancies left by two Republican
02:30 commissioners. Then, in January 2017, the outgoing chairman of FERC resigned. That departure
02:36 left the Commission without a quorum. It then took seven months to restore the quorum at
02:41 FERC. During that time, too many projects that helped keep the lights on, heat our homes,
02:45 and aid our friends abroad were put on hold. We can't let that happen again. Too much is
02:50 at stake for American workers, for our energy security, and for our nation's economy.
02:54 That's why I'm glad that we are acting on these nominees today. And while I may not
02:59 agree with each of the nominees at all times, all of them are well qualified. I'm especially
03:04 supportive of Ms. Lindsay See. Ms. See is an outstanding appellate lawyer. She has spent
03:09 the last seven years as Solicitor General of the Chairman's Home State of West Virginia.
03:15 Ms. See has fought tirelessly for affordable and reliable energy for American families.
03:19 She has argued two cases before the U.S. Supreme Court. In one of those cases, she successfully
03:24 advocated on behalf of West Virginia as well as my home state of Wyoming. Ms. See is a
03:29 graduate of Harvard Law School, where she served as executive editor of the Harvard
03:33 Law Review. After law school, she clerked for Judge Thomas Griffith on the U.S. Court
03:39 of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. If confirmed, she will bring her impressive experience working
03:45 with complex statutes to the Commission. Ms. See is well positioned to help ensure the
03:48 Commission adheres faithfully to its statutory mandates. This is particularly important in
03:53 light of the Commission's recent decisions.
03:56 Last month, on a purely partisan vote, FERC issued a landmark order that will dramatically
04:00 change how regional electric transmission is planned and paid for. The Commission ignored
04:05 the limitations of its own authority and its mission to be a nonpartisan regulator. I'm
04:10 deeply troubled that Chairman Phillips and Commissioner Clements pursued a sweeping policy
04:15 change over the strong objections of Commissioner Christie. In 2022, Commissioner Christie voted
04:21 in favor of FERC's proposed rule. He was willing to support a rule that was consistent with
04:26 the Commission's mandate. Yet, Chairman Phillips and Commissioner Clements chose to go it alone
04:30 with issuing their final rule.
04:32 The Commission must do better. The Commission is an independent agency and a nonpartisan
04:37 regulator. It's not simply an extension of the White House. It must not set its statutory
04:42 mandate aside or subordinate it to the President's political objectives.
04:47 Shortly after our nomination hearing, I met with Ms. Chang. We had a productive discussion.
04:51 Ms. Chang reiterated that she will honor and adhere to FERC's independent and nonpartisan
04:56 mission. Ms. Chang is committed to uphold FERC's statutory mandate to encourage the
05:01 development of abundant supplies of natural gas at reasonable prices. She told me the
05:06 Commission's role is not to regulate greenhouse gas emissions or address climate change. She
05:10 committed to work to ensure that the rest of the country doesn't experience the high
05:14 energy costs and threats to reliability that her home state of Massachusetts continues
05:19 to face.
05:20 I'm taking Ms. Chang at her word, and I believe that the addition of three nominees together
05:24 would improve the Commission's current markup. Therefore, I plan to support all the nominees
05:28 before us today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
05:30 [Mr. Gowdy] Thank you, Senator.
05:32 And since we do have a quorum, I would ask all Senators to hold their comments or objections
05:38 until after we vote on all three nominations.
05:41 Is there an objection to voting on all three nominations in block by voice?
05:45 [Mr. Lankford] Mr. Chairman, I would like to request a roll call vote.
05:49 [Mr. Gowdy] Roll call vote is requested.
05:50 So what we will do is we will move to the questions on reporting the nomination of David
05:54 Rosner. So the clerk will call the roll.
05:57 [Mr. Ross] Mr. Manchin.
05:58 [Mr. Manchin] Aye.
06:00 [Mr. Ross] Mr. Wyden.
06:01 [Mr. Wyden] Aye, by proxy.
06:02 [Mr. Ross] Ms. Cantwell.
06:03 [Ms. Cantwell] No.
06:04 [Mr. Ross] Mr. Sanders.
06:05 [Mr. Sanders] No, by proxy.
06:06 [Mr. Ross] Mr. Heinrich.
06:07 [Mr. Heinrich] Aye.
06:08 [Mr. Ross] Ms. Serrano.
06:09 [Mr. Serrano] Aye, by proxy.
06:10 [Mr. Ross] Mr. King.
06:11 [Mr. King] Aye.
06:12 [Mr. Ross] Ms. Cortez Masto.
06:13 [Ms. Cortez Masto] Aye.
06:14 [Mr. Ross] Mr. Hickenlooper.
06:15 [Mr. Hickenlooper] Aye, by proxy.
06:16 [Mr. Ross] Mr. Padilla.
06:17 [Mr. Padilla] Aye.
06:41 [Mr. Ross] Mr. Hoeven.
06:48 [Mr. Hoeven] Aye, by proxy.
06:49 [Mr. Ross] Mr. Cassidy.
06:50 [Mr. Cassidy] Aye, by proxy.
06:51 [Mr. Ross] Mrs. Hyde-Smith.
06:52 [Mrs. Hyde-Smith] Aye.
06:53 [Mr. Ross] Mr. Hawley.
06:54 [Mr. Hawley] No.
06:55 [Mr. Gowdy] Senator Hirono, would you like to record his voting?
07:01 [Mr. Hirono] Aye.
07:02 [Mr. Gowdy] Senator Rota.
07:03 [Mr. Gowdy] On this vote, the ayes are 16 and the noes are 3.
07:22 [Mr. Gowdy] The nomination is agreed to and order favorably reported.
07:25 The question is now on reporting the nomination of Lindsey See. The clerk will call the roll.
07:31 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Manchin.
07:32 [Mr. Manchin] Aye.
07:33 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Wyden.
07:34 [Mr. Wyden] Aye, by proxy.
07:35 [Mr. Gowdy] Ms. Cantwell.
07:36 [Ms. Cantwell] Aye.
07:37 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Sanders.
07:38 [Mr. Sanders] No, by proxy.
07:39 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Heinrich.
07:40 [Mr. Heinrich] Aye.
07:41 [Mr. Gowdy] Ms. Hirono.
07:42 [Ms. Hirono] Aye.
07:43 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. King.
07:44 [Mr. King] Aye.
07:45 [Mr. Gowdy] Ms. Cortez Masto.
07:46 [Ms. Cortez Masto] Aye.
07:47 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Hickenlooper.
07:48 [Mr. Hickenlooper] Aye, by proxy.
07:49 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Padilla.
08:08 [Mr. Padilla] Aye.
08:09 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Barrasso.
08:10 [Mr. Barrasso] Aye.
08:11 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Risch.
08:12 [Mr. Risch] Aye, by proxy.
08:13 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Lee.
08:14 [Mr. Lee] Aye.
08:15 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Daines.
08:16 [Mr. Daines] Aye.
08:17 [Mr. Gowdy] Ms. Murkowski.
08:18 [Ms. Murkowski] Aye.
08:19 [Mr. Gowdy] Ms. Hyde-Smith.
08:20 [Ms. Hyde-Smith] Aye.
08:21 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Hawley.
08:22 [Mr. Hawley] Aye.
08:23 [Mr. Gowdy] On this vote, the ayes are --
08:37 [Mr. Lynch] One second, sir. Senator Risch wants to be recorded as voting aye.
08:45 [Mr. Lynch] On this vote, the ayes are 16 and the noes are 3.
08:53 [Chairman Issa] The nomination is agreed to in order to favorably report it.
08:56 The question is now on reporting the nomination of Judy Chang. The clerk will call the roll.
09:00 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Manchin.
09:01 [Mr. Manchin] Aye.
09:02 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Wyden.
09:03 [Mr. Wyden] Aye, by proxy.
09:04 [Mr. Lynch] Ms. Cantwell.
09:05 [Ms. Cantwell] Aye.
09:06 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Sanders.
09:07 [Mr. Sanders] Aye, by proxy.
09:08 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Heinrich.
09:09 [Mr. Heinrich] Aye.
09:10 [Mr. Lynch] Ms. Serrano.
09:11 [Ms. Serrano] Aye.
09:12 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Gowdy.
09:13 [Mr. Gowdy] Aye.
09:15 [Mr. Lynch] Ms. Cortez Masto.
09:17 [Ms. Cortez Masto] No, by proxy.
09:19 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Hickenlooper.
09:20 [Mr. Hickenlooper] Aye.
09:21 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Padilla.
09:22 [Mr. Padilla] Aye.
09:23 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Barrasso.
09:24 [Mr. Barrasso] Aye.
09:25 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Risch.
09:26 [Mr. Risch] Aye.
09:27 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Lee.
09:28 [Mr. Lee] No.
09:29 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Daines.
09:30 [Mr. Daines] No.
09:31 [Mr. Lynch] Ms. Murkowski.
09:32 [Ms. Murkowski] Aye.
09:33 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Hovind.
09:34 [Mr. Hovind] No.
09:43 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Cassidy.
09:44 [Mr. Cassidy] Aye, by proxy.
09:45 [Mr. Lynch] Mrs. Hyde-Smith.
09:46 [Mrs. Hyde-Smith] Aye.
09:47 [Mr. Lynch] Mr. Hawley.
09:48 [Mr. Hawley] It is.
09:49 It's good.
09:50 [Mr. Lynch] On this vote, the ayes are 15 and the noes are 4.
10:15 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Chairman.
10:16 [Chairman Issa] The nomination is agreed to.
10:17 Is the order favorably reported?
10:18 [Mr. Gowdy] Mr. Chairman, I ask to be recorded as present and voting aye on Lee and Rosen
10:22 -- Cee and Rosen, excuse me.
10:24 [Chairman Issa] Cee and Rosen.
10:25 Without objection?
10:26 [Mr. Gowdy] Thank you.
10:27 [Chairman Issa] I want to thank all of you for being here and the votes we've taken.
10:31 And is there any Senators that wish to make a statement?
10:33 Senator Hawley.
10:34 [Senator Hawley] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10:35 I just want to say a quick word about my votes this morning, and in particular my vote with
10:42 regard to Ms. Cee.
10:44 As I've mentioned a number of times in this committee, one of the top energy issues in
10:49 my state, maybe the top energy issue, has been electric transmission lines.
10:53 We have a corporation in the State of Missouri in Venergy that has used eminent domain to
10:59 confiscate farmers' lands to run land, rather, to run transmission lines through the State
11:04 of Missouri.
11:05 Now, as originally planned, these lines weren't even going to benefit Missourians at all.
11:09 No Missouri farmers, no Missouri consumers were going to get anything.
11:14 This company came in, took the farmers' land, did not compensate them.
11:18 Finally, Mr. Chairman, the answer was, farmers were able to go to the state legislature.
11:23 It required the passage of a new state law to get farmers compensated for the land that
11:28 this private corporation, which has testified before us, by the way.
11:32 I love the testimony of this corporation.
11:34 They came up here, sat right there in that seat, and when I asked how much money they
11:38 were making on the State of Missouri, "Oh, we're not sure.
11:41 Why didn't you negotiate with farmers?
11:42 Oh, we can't say."
11:44 But yet they're happy to use their power to come and take these farmers' land, to not
11:49 compensate them.
11:50 They required an intervention by the state legislature.
11:53 Here's my concern, Mr. Chairman, and why it relates to FERC.
11:56 Under the new authorities adopted by Congress in the Infrastructure Act a couple of years
12:01 ago, the Department of Energy now has the ability to designate state transmission lines
12:07 as national transmission corridors.
12:10 Let me show you a map.
12:11 And recently, the Department of Energy has done just that.
12:15 Once the Department of Energy designates a particular through route as a national transmission
12:20 line, FERC has the ability, under the new statute, FERC has the ability to countermand
12:26 state authorities, essentially to bypass the state process, regulatory process, and designate
12:32 the land, including potentially taking it.
12:34 I asked all three of the FERC nominees about this and said to them, this was a couple of
12:40 months ago, March, when we had the hearing, and said to them, "Will you guarantee to me
12:44 that you will consider the interests of farmers, local residents, landowners, the kind of people
12:50 who, frankly, don't hire lobbyists in Venergy and those corporations, they've got lobbyists
12:54 out the wazoo.
12:55 These local farmers, local residents, they don't."
12:59 So my question was simple.
13:00 Will you adhere to the law and will you take into account the interests of local residents,
13:07 farmers, local landowners, again, most of these folks living in rural areas, and not
13:12 allow, not just rubber stamp Department of Energy transmission corridors, national transmission
13:17 corridors?
13:18 I have to say, I was particularly disappointed in the answer of Ms. C, who would not answer
13:21 my question.
13:22 And I just want to say, as a Republican, I'm not going to vote for other Republican nominees
13:28 who will not stand up to the power grab that is happening all across the country and of
13:34 which my state, in particular, has been a victim.
13:36 I'm just not going to do it.
13:37 So I voted no on her nomination.
13:39 I'm going to vote no on the floor.
13:41 I voted no on all the nominees because I'm concerned about this.
13:44 And it's not, Mr. Chairman, it's not a hypothetical.
13:47 Since we had that hearing, that was in March, since that time, lo and behold, the Department
13:52 of Energy has indeed designated the line right there, right across the middle of Missouri,
13:57 designated it as a national transmission corridor, which means FERC is going to have this power
14:02 to come in and to countermand state law and the state regulatory process.
14:07 So I'm very concerned about this.
14:09 Farmers in my state are extremely concerned about it.
14:12 And frankly, I'm disappointed in the answer of the nominees.
14:15 But I'm particularly disappointed.
14:16 I didn't necessarily expect the Democrat nominees to take a strong stance on this, but I sure
14:21 as heck hope Republicans will and would.
14:23 And I'm disappointed she didn't.
14:25 Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
14:26 Thank you, Senator.
14:27 Senator Bronson.
14:28 Mr. Chair, if I could just interrupt for one second.
14:29 I want just to make sure that I'm voted present, aye, for both Rosner and See.
14:35 And I would like to say also, Senator Risch?
14:37 Likewise.
14:38 Likewise on Senator Risch.
14:39 Senator Hawley, if you can, just wait one second.
14:42 I think we'll go a couple of things.
14:44 Well, thanks, Mr. Chairman.
14:45 And, look, I share Senator Hawley's concerns about farmers and other landowners.
14:50 My concern for farmers and landowners is that one of the reasons I strongly support Ms.
14:54 See, because for the last seven years, she's been working on behalf of the people of West
14:57 Virginia as their chief advocate in court.
15:00 During our hearing, Senator Hawley accurately asked Ms. See to exercise extreme care when
15:05 considering applications for electric transmission lines.
15:08 And I think she answered that she would faithfully adhere to and apply the law.
15:12 When Senator Hawley submitted an additional set of questions written to her, she again
15:16 committed to follow the law.
15:18 She wrote, quote, "My time as West Virginia's Solicitor General has given me a profound
15:23 respect for the ways federal policies affect people across the country," and added, quote,
15:28 "I've seen how federal laws and permitting actions can threaten people's livelihoods
15:32 and local economies."
15:34 She went on to say, quote, "Sensitivity to how federal actions affect state and local
15:37 communities is essential when making policy decisions."
15:41 And she added, "I would consider a proposal's consequences for local landowners important
15:47 to the public interest analysis."
15:49 So Mr. Chairman, the Senator from Missouri and I share the same desire to protect farmers,
15:54 to protect landowners.
15:55 I'm voting for her today because I think people -- the commission needs people like
16:00 her.
16:01 She'll help the commission understand how its decisions impact farmers and landowners.
16:05 It's important for me in Wyoming, and I firmly believe that if we fail to confirm her, that
16:09 farmers and landowners would be worse off rather than better.
16:12 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16:13 Sir, let me just say one thing.
16:17 With the permitting bill that we're working on, that both committees have been working
16:20 on, which hopefully we're getting very close to exposing -- sharing that with everybody,
16:26 I think you'll be very pleased on what we're able to do because we have the same concerns
16:30 you've had.
16:31 Okay.
16:32 Any other -- Senator Risch?
16:38 With that, I want to thank everybody for being present and working so diligently and getting
16:41 this done, having a working first is going to be important for our country to be able
16:45 to do what we need to do.
16:46 And we get a permitting bill, it even makes it better.
16:48 With that, meeting's adjourned.
16:49 (thudding)