Jeanne Shaheen Leads Senate Appropriations Committee Hearing On FY25 Budget Request For NASA And NSF

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Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) leads a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing on President Biden's Fiscal Year 2025 budget request for NASA and the National Science Foundation.  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript   Stay Connected Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com

Transcript

00:00:00 The committee on Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies of the Senate Committee

00:00:03 on Appropriations will come to order.

00:00:06 I want to start by again thanking my ranking member, Senator Moran, for the great partnership

00:00:12 we've had.

00:00:13 We are looking forward to writing yet another bipartisan CJS bill, and hopefully we will

00:00:20 get started on that soon.

00:00:22 I want to welcome today's witnesses, NASA Administrator Bill Nelson, former Senator

00:00:27 Bill Nelson, we still think about you as in the family here, and NSF Director Setu Raman,

00:00:35 punch of nothing, I'm getting better, right?

00:00:38 Affectionately known as Dr. Punch, to discuss their agency's fiscal year 2025 budget requests.

00:00:46 Thank you both for being here today.

00:00:48 And thank you, Senator Nelson and your team for coordinating the visit with Artemis II

00:00:54 astronaut, Christina Cook, who was in New Hampshire, and anyone who can keep a roomful

00:00:59 of fifth graders engaged for over 40 minutes is a great emissary for NASA.

00:01:06 So we really appreciated her visit, and I'm sure had a number of wannabe astronauts in

00:01:12 that room after she was there.

00:01:16 President Biden's fiscal year 2025 budget requests for NASA and NSF would take steps

00:01:22 in the right direction.

00:01:23 The request includes 10.18 billion for NSF, which is an increase of 1.12 billion or 12.4%

00:01:31 above fiscal year 2024 enacted.

00:01:34 For NASA, the request is 25.4 billion, which is an increase of 509 million or 2% above

00:01:41 the '24 enacted level.

00:01:43 However, as Administrator Nelson, you and I discussed, I do have some concerns about

00:01:50 the budget.

00:01:51 I'm particularly concerned about the cut to NASA heliophysics for the third year in a

00:01:56 row, especially since the next heliophysics decadal will be released later this year.

00:02:02 And of course, as you know, the University of New Hampshire is a leader in heliophysics

00:02:07 research, including leading the Helioswarm mission.

00:02:11 I can point to the geomagnetic storm that we had last week to underscore how important

00:02:17 our understanding of the sun really is.

00:02:20 And fortunately, we didn't see any real damage as the result of that storm, but we know that

00:02:27 those storms can interfere with satellite systems, with GPS, with radio communications,

00:02:33 and studying the sun gives us real much better understanding of what the impacts could be.

00:02:39 So it's also hard to overstate the effect of the Fiscal Responsibility Act caps on your

00:02:46 agencies.

00:02:48 We were forced to cut nearly a billion dollars from critical science agencies in the FY24

00:02:54 bill and struggled to meet the high expectations to continue to invest in the Artemis mission

00:03:01 and the hugely popular Chips in Science Act.

00:03:06 So we've seen reduced investments in innovation and space exploration.

00:03:11 Those investments are, through NSF and NASA, really drive our economic competitiveness.

00:03:18 They inspire the next generation of STEM leaders.

00:03:21 And I worry that under-investing in our nation's future, especially in scientific innovation,

00:03:28 will be challenging as we think about our future competitors.

00:03:32 So whether developing the future of artificial intelligence or lunar space, NASA and NSF

00:03:40 are on the cutting edge of technological innovation and instrumental in training the next generation

00:03:45 of scientists, innovators, teachers, and technicians, in particular in the STEM fields that will

00:03:51 define economic growth and national security for decades to come.

00:03:57 And I think we all understand on this committee, I know you both do, that we can't take our

00:04:02 continued leadership in innovation and technology for granted.

00:04:06 Our global competitors, especially China, are not waiting idly by.

00:04:11 They're investing heavily in scientific and technological innovation.

00:04:16 Earlier this month, China launched a mission to the dark side of the moon, which demonstrates

00:04:21 an impressive technological capability.

00:04:24 Both NASA and NSF drive us onward through curiosity-driven inquiry and exploration,

00:04:30 and they ensure that the foundation for the future in fields like AI and space exploration

00:04:36 is built in the United States.

00:04:39 It's imperative that we lead, not just keep pace, which is why I continue to be a staunch

00:04:44 supporter of both NASA and NSF.

00:04:47 And with that, let me recognize my ranking member, Senator Moran.

00:04:51 Chair Shaheen, thank you very much.

00:04:53 Thanks for your cooperation in this setting and our other deliberations and work on the

00:04:58 CJS Appropriations Subcommittee.

00:05:00 I look forward to, again, having a successful opportunity for us to advance causes that

00:05:07 we both believe in and that are important to the country.

00:05:09 And welcome to NASA Administrator Nelson and to Director Panchnathan.

00:05:13 We're delighted to have you back in front of our committee.

00:05:16 I think it's appropriate that both of you are here at the same time.

00:05:19 While you have different missions and different responsibilities and opportunities, the outcome

00:05:24 of what each of you do benefits the country in very similar ways.

00:05:29 The President's budget of $1.1 billion increase for NSF and a $500 million increase for NASA

00:05:36 – while these increases are significant, given the fiscal responsibility spending caps,

00:05:42 they remain a challenge.

00:05:45 We did the best that we could do with the numbers that we had for both of your agencies

00:05:49 in FY '24, and I'm committed to doing that again.

00:05:55 That challenging allocation last year led to some tough decisions, but in my view, this

00:06:02 subcommittee, the full committee, and the Senate and Congress were able to protect many

00:06:06 pivotal programs and missions, including Administrator Nelson, the Artemis program.

00:06:15 Artemis will cement a new era in space exploration for the United States.

00:06:20 There are 16 diverse Kansas suppliers that are supporting Artemis 1 mission, and many

00:06:24 more suppliers will be helpful in support future Artemis missions.

00:06:29 Ryan Hernandez, Administrator Nelson, who you met when we visited DJ Engineering in

00:06:35 Wichita, said at a press conference in which you were participating, and this is what he

00:06:41 said, "I got goosebumps right now just to be a part of the Artemis program and show

00:06:48 off what we're able to do for NASA."

00:06:51 Artemis is not only important to our aerospace manufacturing workforce, but it's an inspiring

00:06:56 opportunity for the next generation, and that's very important for our national economy and

00:07:02 our national security.

00:07:04 As Senator Shaheen said, China is a threatening adversary.

00:07:10 Territorial land grabs on the Lunar Service is making significant strides in their own

00:07:13 space program.

00:07:15 Over the past several years, we have laid groundwork for the United States to remain

00:07:19 the leader in the world space domain, but the outcome of that battle is not certain.

00:07:26 It's imperative that we continue to build upon the foundation, which will ultimately

00:07:30 move us beyond returning to the moon and on toward new goals, such as landing astronauts

00:07:36 on Mars.

00:07:37 As we approach an Artemis 2 launch, I look forward to hearing today an update on the

00:07:42 mission and how the U.S., the United States, will maintain our leadership in space.

00:07:48 NASA's influence extends beyond space exploration.

00:07:51 It drives innovation, education, and economic growth, which can also be said for the National

00:07:56 Science Foundation.

00:07:58 A critical component of maintaining our nation's aerospace and aviation leadership is advanced

00:08:04 manufacturing.

00:08:05 And, Dr. Panchnatharan, I appreciate the conversation we had just before this hearing began.

00:08:11 I would highlight for my colleagues on the committee that Senator – the chairwoman

00:08:16 of the Commerce Committee and I have introduced education workforce legislation dealing with

00:08:20 advanced manufacturing, and I bring it to your attention for your consideration.

00:08:25 Advanced manufacturing combines technology and craftsmanship to create economic growth

00:08:29 and high-paying jobs, while also helping us to out-compete China in terms of efficiency

00:08:35 and productivity.

00:08:38 Institutions like Wichita State and Pittsburgh State University, which the NSF director visited

00:08:42 last year, are at the forefront of advanced manufacturing and materials science, driving

00:08:47 innovation and competitiveness.

00:08:50 This hearing, I hope, will explore how we maximize the impact of federal funding, encourage

00:08:55 collaboration among agencies, academia, and the private sector, and, importantly, inspire

00:09:00 future generations of science and technology to make certain investments are robust and

00:09:05 fiscally responsible.

00:09:07 I am committed to working with both of you, both of our witnesses, to ensure the nation

00:09:12 out-competes all others in exploration, discovery, and innovation.

00:09:16 And I would say to both of you, what you are doing is a noble calling.

00:09:20 Our country desperately needs your agencies to be successful.

00:09:24 Our committee needs to do what it can do to be helpful in that outcome.

00:09:28 We face tremendous challenges in our world today, and what happens in your departments

00:09:36 and agencies are hugely important to the success that we can have.

00:09:40 So I wish you well, and we're here to help, but today we'll hear what your requests are

00:09:47 and how we can be that helpful.

00:09:49 Thank you both.

00:09:51 Thank you very much, Senator Moran, and we will now hear from our witnesses.

00:09:56 Administrator Nelson, will you begin?

00:10:00 Thank you, Madam Chair, and the fact that you are very legitimately an expert in heliophysics,

00:10:08 these times must be particularly exciting to you, not only the big solar storm that

00:10:14 just occurred, but also the alignment of the moon and the earth and the sun into a total

00:10:21 eclipse that a good part of America was able to see.

00:10:27 It's the first total eclipse that I had been in.

00:10:30 I went to Cleveland, and it's a phenomenon that you just don't forget.

00:10:38 Suddenly the earth is turning dark in the middle of the day, and the temperature is

00:10:43 dropping rapidly, and at total eclipse, things are dark.

00:10:49 And so thank you for your expertise in heliophysics.

00:10:55 Well, I appreciate that.

00:10:57 I don't want anybody to think I'm an expert.

00:11:00 I believe in lowering expectations, but I'm certainly an admirer.

00:11:06 And Senator Moran, I just, as you were talking, I want to recall that one of the finest space

00:11:15 museums is located in Hutchison, Kansas.

00:11:20 And I had no idea.

00:11:24 When I was out there visiting with you, it's extraordinary.

00:11:28 And further to the south in Oklahoma, in Weatherford, Oklahoma, is another extraordinary space museum.

00:11:39 That one, as a result of General Tom Stafford, the Gemini, Apollo 10, and Apollo Soyuz astronaut

00:11:50 who just recently passed away, one of the great treasures of America.

00:11:56 And he has left a legacy there, not unlike your museum in Kansas, that is a great benefit

00:12:06 to follow the lead of the National Air and Space Museum here.

00:12:13 Your comments are very, very welcome, especially the first half of what you had to say.

00:12:18 But I would tell you that while you must have arranged a call for Senator Shaheen, at some

00:12:23 point in time, not too long ago, the astronauts for Artemis called as a group.

00:12:30 And the beginning of that conversation was, you do know, Senator Moran, that you have

00:12:34 the best space museum in the world in Kansas.

00:12:39 That was also a very refreshing call.

00:12:41 Thank you.

00:12:44 And I am delighted to be here with Dr. Ponch.

00:12:48 And what the two of you said is absolutely true.

00:12:52 Between the two agencies, we have a good bit of the federal government's research and development.

00:13:01 This is critical for our future.

00:13:06 And we know what you've been through.

00:13:11 The constraints that you had to put on the budget for '24 and '25 against the artificial

00:13:23 ceiling of a debt ceiling that had to be raised so that the government would not go into default.

00:13:33 And in order to get the votes to pass that, you had to agree to compromises.

00:13:39 And some of those compromises were the reduced levels that are now affecting our two agencies.

00:13:48 So much so that it's almost $5 billion less in NASA over those two years, '24 and '25.

00:13:58 And when you come into, as we've both been talking here about science, that is an effect

00:14:05 of almost $2 billion over those two years, a billion a year, just in science.

00:14:15 And so Senator Kennedy and I were talking about Southern colloquialisms.

00:14:23 When you got a five-pound potato sack and you got 10 pounds of potatoes that you want

00:14:31 to have, but you only got a five-pound sack, you can't get everything done.

00:14:38 And that's what we're facing on this fiscal year '25 and what we faced last year on fiscal

00:14:45 year '24 budget.

00:14:50 We can't get everything done.

00:14:52 And therefore, I've had to make some uncomfortable choices.

00:14:57 Some of those choices we can go into detail, Mars sample return, OSAM, those missions had

00:15:10 to be scaled back because something had to be scaled back.

00:15:18 The rest of NASA, with the resources that you give us, just we are very privileged.

00:15:27 I am very privileged to try to offer some kind of leadership to a bunch of wizards,

00:15:34 and they really do do impossible things.

00:15:39 The James Webb Telescope, the hitting the asteroid and moving it, the grabbing and sucking

00:15:45 up the sample from another asteroid, the needle-nose jet that's going to fly at the end of this

00:15:52 year, supersonic and it's not going to have that loud sonic boom.

00:15:59 I can go on and on.

00:16:00 The daily science that goes on on the International Space Station, going back to the moon in order

00:16:10 to be able to go to Mars, and that's what we're engaged in.

00:16:16 Thank you for the opportunity to come and share this with you.

00:16:20 Thank you very much, Administrator Nelson.

00:16:24 Dr. Panch.

00:16:27 Thank you so much.

00:16:28 Good morning, Chair Shaheen, Ranking Member Moran and members of the committee.

00:16:31 It's truly an honor to do this with you and Administrator Nelson.

00:16:36 And we always enjoy working with each other, not only in terms of our partnership, but

00:16:40 doing this hearing together too, so I really appreciate your partnership.

00:16:45 In 1950, the National Science Foundation was established to continue the nation's investments

00:16:49 in science and engineering that had begun during World War II, to explore what Vannevar

00:16:55 Bush described as the endless frontier, so that we might continue to unlock the secrets

00:17:00 of our world and the universe, and in doing so, strengthen our economic and national security.

00:17:07 Seventy-four years later, we are surrounded by advancements that have been made possible

00:17:11 by NSF investments in people and ideas.

00:17:15 The internet, smartphones, wireless technologies, 3D printing, Doppler radar, barcodes, nanoscale

00:17:23 science, kidney exchanges, robotics, CRISPR, and MRI technologies, even the magic school

00:17:29 bus, were all supported by NSF.

00:17:33 Tens of thousands of researchers, entrepreneurs, and STEM educators are supported by NSF every

00:17:38 year, and countless, countless startups have spun off from NSF's investments.

00:17:44 Millions of people, from elementary school students who are inspired by the promise of

00:17:48 STEM to those already in the workforce and are looking to acquire new skills for jobs

00:17:53 in emerging industries, are touched by NSF every year.

00:17:58 When we look at the early investment in an idea that revolutionizes an industry and yields

00:18:04 incredible profit, we call that a wise investment.

00:18:08 NSF continues to be an extremely wise investment for the United States.

00:18:14 Every single American benefits every day from our commitment to unleashing the American

00:18:19 spirit of innovation.

00:18:21 However, while we benefited greatly from being the first nation to invest heavily in fundamental

00:18:26 research and innovation, our competitors are rapidly catching up.

00:18:31 Other governments, most notably the PRC, have copied our playbook, and they are investing

00:18:36 heavily today in hopes of controlling the innovations of the future.

00:18:41 Take, for example, semiconductor production.

00:18:44 The offshoring of this critical sector, which happened slowly over many years, became a

00:18:48 national security imperative when we felt the effects of chip shortages in automobiles

00:18:53 and other industries.

00:18:54 Congress and the administration acted quickly to invest in bringing that capacity back to

00:18:59 the United States.

00:19:00 However, we must ensure that we do not face the same challenge in AI, in quantum information

00:19:07 science, advanced manufacturing, or other critical technologies.

00:19:11 That is why Congress did not pass just a CHIPS Act, but a CHIPS and SCIENCE Act, which recognize

00:19:18 the investments in research today are the key to a more prosperous and secure future

00:19:23 tomorrow.

00:19:24 The FY25 budget, President's budget request for NSF includes $10.2 billion, an investment

00:19:30 that is vital to the United States' continued leadership in science, engineering, and technology.

00:19:35 NSF has worked quickly and with intentionality to implement the CHIPS and SCIENCE Act.

00:19:40 Our flagship example of this is the regional innovation engines, which are the largest

00:19:44 broad-scale investments in the nation's history to spur place-based innovation in critical

00:19:48 fields of R&D and economic and societal importance.

00:19:51 Earlier this year, we announced the first 10 full-scale NSF engines, which will be the

00:19:56 catalyst for the industries of tomorrow and build new powerhouses of innovation and high-tech

00:20:00 entrepreneurship in communities throughout our country.

00:20:04 In addition, NSF has funded 58 planning grants for future engines in almost every state of

00:20:09 our nation.

00:20:10 Chair Shaheen and Ranking Member Moran, this includes two exciting projects in New Hampshire

00:20:15 and Kansas.

00:20:16 In New Hampshire, a team led by the Northern Forest Center is working on advanced forest

00:20:21 ecosystem management and forest product innovation to unlock new opportunities in a circular

00:20:27 bioeconomy for New England.

00:20:29 I can say that to all the senators because every one of you is a representative of the

00:20:32 regional innovation engines.

00:20:33 I won't have time.

00:20:34 And in Kansas, Kansas State University is leading a robust network of partners focused

00:20:39 on biosecurity, biodefense, and advanced manufacturing.

00:20:42 Both projects are excellent examples of the incredible potential for coupling the ingenuity

00:20:47 of a research enterprise with the strength of our communities to create opportunities

00:20:51 everywhere.

00:20:53 But these investments must be sustained to be successful.

00:20:56 The FY25 request includes $205 million for the NSF regional innovation engines, which

00:21:00 will be critical to the continuation of the first 10 engines and our ability to move forward

00:21:04 with any of the projects currently in development.

00:21:06 NSF is committed to inspiring and empowering the talent that resides in communities throughout

00:21:11 our nation.

00:21:12 And we will continue to be intentional in growing capacity in EPSCOR jurisdictions,

00:21:17 investing in minority serving and emerging research institutions, and in our community

00:21:21 colleges.

00:21:22 I'm happy to report that NSF not only met, but exceeded the CHIPS and science EPSCOR

00:21:28 funding targets for FY23.

00:21:30 And we expect that to continue into the future, which I know was a shared priority for NSF

00:21:35 and for this committee.

00:21:36 NSF is also keenly focused on protecting the integrity of our investments.

00:21:40 We have taken research security head on, prohibiting funding for researchers that participate in

00:21:45 a malign foreign talent program, developing analytics capabilities to assess risks, providing

00:21:51 training for the research community, and working closely with law enforcement and the intelligence

00:21:55 community.

00:21:56 In the near future, we will begin piloting a risk rubric that will guide the agency in

00:22:00 making determinations about the national security implications of projects in sensitive technologies.

00:22:05 Chair Schoenke, Ranking Member Moran, and members of the committee.

00:22:10 Our country is at a critical moment.

00:22:11 We must seize the promise of technologies like AI while continuing to invest in the

00:22:16 curiosity driven research that feeds the industries of tomorrow and builds the workforce of the

00:22:20 future.

00:22:21 In addition, we must invest in world class research infrastructure that makes discoveries

00:22:25 possible.

00:22:26 There is incredible demand in the need for the next generation of telescopes, research

00:22:31 vessels, high performance computing, and more.

00:22:33 In addition, we face growing needs to recapitalize our infrastructure in the Arctic and Antarctic.

00:22:39 Two regions that are critical to not just scientific progress, but our geopolitical

00:22:44 priorities.

00:22:45 Curiosity driven research, use inspired innovations, and research infrastructure are all interrelated

00:22:51 and are all critical to our global relationship.

00:22:53 Leadership, a prime example is NSF's efforts to stand up the National AI Research Resource.

00:22:59 The NAIR is essentially democratizing AI research capabilities and unlocking the potential of

00:23:04 AI to transform fields from healthcare to weather modeling.

00:23:08 Our leadership in AI, quantum, advanced wireless is critical to the economic and national security.

00:23:13 These technologies must be rooted in and guided by core American values such as openness,

00:23:17 explainability, and integrity.

00:23:18 I am certain that our innovators are ready to meet this challenge.

00:23:22 However, we simply cannot meet this moment without investing significantly in the people

00:23:26 who make this all possible.

00:23:27 NSF greatly appreciates the support of this committee and I look forward to working with

00:23:31 you to ensure American leadership in science, engineering, and technologies for generations

00:23:37 to come.

00:23:38 Thank you for the opportunity.

00:23:41 Thank you both very much for your leadership and for your enthusiasm.

00:23:46 We will now go to questions.

00:23:48 Each member will have five minutes for questions in this round and we will take members in

00:23:55 the order of arrival beginning with myself and Senator Moran.

00:24:02 Administrator Nelson, I really appreciated the opportunity we had yesterday to talk about

00:24:05 some of the challenges that NASA has given the fiscal constraints we're under.

00:24:12 As you pointed out, we can't get everything done that we want to get done in the current

00:24:17 fiscal environment.

00:24:19 On a bipartisan basis, we made the decision to prioritize the Artemis campaign because

00:24:24 of the importance to scientific exploration and national security.

00:24:29 As we know, the decision came at the expense of a number of other NASA directorates as

00:24:36 well as agencies across the CJS bill.

00:24:40 One of the things that I hope you will share with the committee is what NASA is doing to

00:24:47 hold contractors accountable for cost overruns and for scheduling delays because as the NASA

00:24:55 inspector general estimates that the first four Artemis launches will cost $4.2 billion

00:25:01 each not including $42 billion in formulation and development costs over the past 12 years.

00:25:08 I think it's important that Congress and the American people know that we're doing everything

00:25:13 we can both to support those missions but to make sure they're as cost effective as

00:25:18 possible.

00:25:19 Absolutely, Madam Chairman.

00:25:24 As a matter of fact, that was one of the reasons that many moons ago we passed the NASA Act

00:25:33 that set us off on the dual course with commercial partners.

00:25:41 As we go back to the moon in order to go to Mars, we go back with not only international

00:25:48 partners but commercial partners.

00:25:52 The lander for the moon is being done by two commercial companies.

00:26:01 The first competition was won by SpaceX, the second by Blue Origin.

00:26:07 In each case, the estimated cost of the lander was borne one half by the commercial company,

00:26:18 both SpaceX and Blue Origin.

00:26:23 In other words, that cost NASA half.

00:26:28 Can you speak to the dollar savings?

00:26:30 Sure.

00:26:31 As a matter of fact, the winning bid on the SpaceX was roughly six ... No, let me say

00:26:42 this.

00:26:45 SpaceX had offered $3 billion that would be NASA's cost.

00:26:53 I'm rounding here.

00:26:55 The next two competitors offered $6 billion and $8.5 billion.

00:27:04 If you take a target of six, SpaceX is paying for half of the lander.

00:27:12 The same thing happened in the second competition that Blue Origin won.

00:27:17 Of course, SpaceX was not a part of that.

00:27:21 Basically, Blue Origin's part of the lander in their case was roughly $3 billion as well.

00:27:32 You're asking a question about all of the science issues.

00:27:38 I'm happy to report to you that in the 23, 24 development projects of the 16 major projects,

00:27:53 excluding Mars sample return, and we can talk about that, of the 16, only four are behind

00:28:03 time schedule.

00:28:05 I was really asking about the space mission, the Artemis missions as a whole.

00:28:13 Given the high cost, has NASA considered an independent review board for exploration?

00:28:21 I came on late into the James Webb telescope development, but I know that when the independent

00:28:28 review board was set up, that that's when that project really started moving and the

00:28:35 cost stayed within the constraints that we had.

00:28:40 Do you think that it would make sense to look at something like that as we're looking at

00:28:44 the space mission overall?

00:28:47 We are constantly having other eyes come in.

00:28:52 There has been a GAO report.

00:28:55 There has been the inspector general's report.

00:29:00 The fact is that when you go to the moon in order to go to Mars, it's hard.

00:29:08 That's what President Kennedy said at Rice University.

00:29:11 He said, "We go to the moon not because it's easy, but because it's hard."

00:29:19 I would call to your attention, since you're specifically asking about Artemis, that Artemis,

00:29:27 they're saying it's $4 billion a copy, but that's all the development costs are in there.

00:29:33 The more that you fly out Artemis, then you're going to amortize that cost and your costs

00:29:41 are going to come down.

00:29:43 We have done other things.

00:29:45 There were 16 contracts on the Artemis program.

00:29:50 We are trying to consolidate that in just a few contracts so we can get greater responsibility

00:29:58 and cost control.

00:30:01 Thank you.

00:30:02 I'm over time, but we can come back to this in the next round.

00:30:06 Senator Moran.

00:30:07 As I walked in, Senator Shaheen apparently was asking a question that I intend to ask,

00:30:11 so I look forward to that further conversation.

00:30:13 Let me continue, though, Administrator, with Artemis.

00:30:19 Given the national security implications of China and the South Pole of the moon, do you

00:30:27 agree that Artemis is the priority of NASA as we go through our appropriations process?

00:30:36 It is clearly one of the top priorities because of the geopolitical situation that we are

00:30:45 in a space race, but it portends something else.

00:30:51 The reason we're going back to a different part of the moon, the South Pole, is we know

00:30:58 there is ice in the crevices of the rocks that are constantly shattered.

00:31:05 We have a probe on a commercial lander going later this year that is going to dig and see

00:31:12 at the South Pole if there's water.

00:31:16 If there is, then there is rocket fuel, hydrogen and oxygen, and that becomes a very one valuable

00:31:26 resource.

00:31:28 That's why China is going to the South Pole as well.

00:31:33 My concern, as I've stated publicly, so this is nothing new, that if we let China get there

00:31:45 first, mindful of what China has done on Tierra Firma, namely go to the South China Sea, the

00:31:55 Spratly Islands, saying this is now ours, stay out, everybody else.

00:32:05 I'm concerned that they might, you can tell where a fellow's going by where he's been.

00:32:14 And that's my concern.

00:32:16 Senator Nelson, let me remind you of your days of being United States Senator.

00:32:19 The clock only gives me five minutes.

00:32:23 Let me add to the Artemis conversation.

00:32:27 The budget request indicates that there will be a further delay in the launch dates on

00:32:31 Artemis 2, slipping to September 25, and Artemis 3 launching no earlier than September 26.

00:32:40 How confident are you in those dates for Artemis 2 and 3 and subsequent missions?

00:32:46 First of all, we don't fly until it's ready because of the safety of our astronauts.

00:32:54 We think that September of 25 for Artemis 2 is a realistic date.

00:33:01 Obviously, September of 26 for Artemis 3, which as you think about it, and I want this

00:33:09 in the record, Artemis 3, if you compare it to the Apollo program, is a combination of

00:33:18 Apollo 9, 10, and 11, which was the landing on the moon, and part of Apollo 8 that orbited

00:33:30 the moon 10 times.

00:33:34 And so it is a difficult task, and if we land, it is dependent on SpaceX having their lander

00:33:44 ready.

00:33:45 Now, they have hit all of their milestones, and in a couple of weeks, they're going to

00:33:51 launch that huge rocket that has 33 Raptor engines in its tail, and they're going to

00:34:02 do more showing the space worthiness of it.

00:34:08 It is my hope that SpaceX will be ready with their lander.

00:34:14 Thank you.

00:34:15 Dr. Pontchartrain, I mentioned in my opening statement that this week Senator Cantwell

00:34:22 and I introduced legislation to ensure that NSF is supporting artificial intelligence

00:34:30 education, particularly in rural areas of the country.

00:34:33 Among other provisions, the NSF AI Education Act would support scholarships for undergraduate

00:34:39 and graduate students who are studying artificial intelligence, including as it pertains to

00:34:43 education, agriculture, and advanced manufacturing.

00:34:46 It also support the provisions of AI resources to colleges and universities around the country

00:34:51 with an emphasis on EPSCOR, universities, tribal colleges, historically black colleges

00:34:55 and universities, among other institutions.

00:35:01 I just would like your reaction for the record to that legislation.

00:35:05 Thank you so much, Senator Moran.

00:35:07 This is a fantastic opportunity for us to really scale rapidly the AI workforce.

00:35:14 Let me give you a concrete number.

00:35:16 We would need 3 million AI workers trained as early as 2026 in our country.

00:35:24 We cannot wait.

00:35:25 Our competitors are out-competing and out-innovating.

00:35:29 This is not the time to slow down.

00:35:30 This is the time to accelerate, accelerate really fast.

00:35:33 These investments are very critical in AI because it impacts every sphere of what we

00:35:38 do, whether it is agriculture.

00:35:41 You mentioned agriculture.

00:35:42 We launched 25 AI institutes in the last three years.

00:35:45 And let me underscore that with we invested in NSF $300 million.

00:35:51 We got partnership investments of $200 million, including from the private sector.

00:35:55 This model of public-private partnership is how NSF is advancing in these critical areas.

00:36:00 So I'm very grateful for what you have done.

00:36:03 And I think this is timely, important, and I would say very urgent.

00:36:09 I wasn't too concerned of you going over time as I was with Senator Nelson since you were

00:36:13 endorsing my legislation.

00:36:15 Thank you very much.

00:36:17 Thank you, Senator Moran.

00:36:18 Senator Peters.

00:36:19 Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks to both of you for being here as witnesses, but also

00:36:25 all the great work that you do each and every day.

00:36:27 Dr. Panch, I certainly share your belief that AI holds incredible promise for economic opportunity

00:36:35 and human advancement.

00:36:37 And that's why I also want to applaud your budget's planned investments in this technology.

00:36:43 Certainly you are leaning in heavily, and it's quite apparent from your testimony you're

00:36:46 quite enthusiastic and passionate about it as well, which we appreciate.

00:36:51 It's also why, though, last Congress I championed the AI Scholarship for Service Act, which

00:36:57 passed as part of the Chips and Science Act back in '21.

00:37:01 My bill requires NSF to study the feasibility of starting a scholarship for service program

00:37:07 on AI, and I found it to be feasible to carry out that program.

00:37:11 So my question for you, sir, is can you provide an update on the status of the feasibility

00:37:15 study and speak to the potential positive impact of an AI scholarship for service program

00:37:20 similar to NSF CyberCore scholarship for service that you currently have?

00:37:26 Thank you, Senator.

00:37:27 That's a very important question.

00:37:28 I just want to underscore that the CyberCore program has been hugely successful.

00:37:33 Again, needing scale, but hugely successful.

00:37:36 So this model of doing that for AI is an excellent idea.

00:37:40 And to the point that you raised on the Chips and Science Act, about delivering the report,

00:37:44 we are about to deliver the report to Congress on the implementation and the feasibility

00:37:47 of such a program.

00:37:48 I would say that the initial conditions are extremely favorable for us to engage in this

00:37:52 kind of AI scholars program, because I think our country needs AI in every sphere, as I

00:37:59 said, particularly in federal government, in provincial government, state governments,

00:38:03 as well as other aspects.

00:38:05 We need a huge number of well-trained, skilled technical workforce and advanced trained workforce.

00:38:11 So this is very well placed and you will have the report submitted soon to Congress.

00:38:15 So we are on our way in terms of developing that in response to the Chips and Science

00:38:18 Act.

00:38:19 Great.

00:38:20 I look forward to looking at that and then making sure we're making the investments we

00:38:22 need to make it a reality.

00:38:25 My only ask for you is, as you're working to implement the act, I would certainly like

00:38:29 to invite you to Michigan to see some of the amazing scientists we have.

00:38:33 I know you have some connections to the University of Michigan.

00:38:35 We have a number of great universities and really some amazing high-tech, innovative

00:38:40 startups, particularly in AI.

00:38:42 And if you're willing to come, we would love to host you.

00:38:44 I would love to be there.

00:38:46 There are four AI institutes where Michigan universities are participating, just to put

00:38:50 this over the 25, which is very exciting.

00:38:52 That's what AI institutes do.

00:38:53 They bring every part of our nation.

00:38:55 And so I'm excited to come with you, sir.

00:38:58 And there are many other investments, not only in the University of Michigan, Michigan

00:39:00 State, but all the institutions in Michigan.

00:39:03 We believe that it should be all of the institutions bringing the capacity for our nation at this

00:39:07 important time.

00:39:08 Thank you so much.

00:39:09 Great.

00:39:10 Thank you, sir.

00:39:11 Excellent.

00:39:12 We'll be sure to provide that shortly.

00:39:13 Administrator Nelson, great to see you again in the halls of Congress.

00:39:16 I certainly enjoyed immensely serving with you here in the Senate.

00:39:21 But I know you're incredibly happy where you are.

00:39:23 It's a lifelong passion of yours.

00:39:26 As you know, NASA and the space program success are absolutely dependent on having a strong

00:39:31 supply chain.

00:39:32 And I'm proud that Michigan is a top 10 state in aerospace manufacturing, and it's home

00:39:37 to over 900 aerospace-related companies and continuing to grow, especially given how we

00:39:45 know how to make things in Michigan.

00:39:47 Advanced manufacturing is a key component of our competitive success globally.

00:39:52 And that also includes components for rockets and spacecraft that we're going to need for

00:39:56 missions like Artemis 2 and others.

00:40:00 So my question for you, sir, is, first off, will you come to Michigan to visit some of

00:40:05 these amazing manufacturers, but also would you talk a little bit about how NASA's dollars

00:40:10 are supporting our small to medium domestic manufacturers, not just the big ones we all

00:40:15 think about, and how we have to do more to have that incredible innovation that comes

00:40:22 out of these smaller companies?

00:40:25 As we discussed, I'm coming in July.

00:40:28 Look forward to it.

00:40:31 Just on the Artemis program to the moon, you have 44 Michigan companies that are suppliers.

00:40:42 By the way, we take very seriously the Buy American Act and the executive order that

00:40:51 is similar.

00:40:54 And so I'm looking forward.

00:40:58 Now on small suppliers, I don't have the percentage in my head, but NASA has made a real effort

00:41:11 over the time of these big space contracts that a certain percentage of that does go

00:41:19 to small businesses.

00:41:22 And I can get the specific small businesses in Michigan that would be a part of that,

00:41:32 but overall nationwide, it's a fairly sizable percentage.

00:41:39 And that's why each year when the Small Business Administration does their scorecard, you will

00:41:46 see that NASA comes out very well.

00:41:51 Thank you.

00:41:52 I'm looking forward to the next one.

00:41:53 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:41:54 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:41:55 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:41:56 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:41:57 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:41:58 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:41:59 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:00 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:01 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:02 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:03 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:04 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:05 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:06 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:07 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:08 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:09 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:10 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:34 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:41 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:46 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:50 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:53 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:56 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:42:59 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:02 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:05 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:07 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:09 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:11 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:13 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:15 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:17 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:19 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:21 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:23 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:25 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:27 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:29 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:31 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:33 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:35 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:37 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:39 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:41 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:43 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:45 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:47 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:49 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:51 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:53 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:55 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:57 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:43:59 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:01 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:03 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:05 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:07 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:09 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:11 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:13 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:15 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:17 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:19 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:21 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:23 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:25 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:27 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:29 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:31 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:33 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:35 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:37 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:39 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:41 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:43 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:45 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:47 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:49 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:51 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:53 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:55 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:57 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:44:59 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:01 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:03 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:05 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:07 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:09 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:11 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:13 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:15 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:17 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:19 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:21 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:23 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:25 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:27 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:29 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:31 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:33 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:35 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:37 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:39 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:41 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:43 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:45 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:47 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:49 I'm going to let Senator Kennedy take over.

00:45:51 That's me. Better, faster, cheaper.

00:45:53 That's me. Better, faster, cheaper.

00:45:55 Let's sit down and talk.

00:45:57 Let's sit down and talk.

00:45:59 Finally, in the time I have left,

00:46:01 Tell me about your SLS heavy lift rocket

00:46:03 Tell me about your SLS heavy lift rocket

00:46:05 for the Artemis missions.

00:46:07 Well, the core of it is built right in Louisiana.

00:46:09 Well, the core of it is built right in Louisiana.

00:46:11 Then they stack the engines on it.

00:46:13 Then they stack the engines on it.

00:46:15 They barge it up to

00:46:17 not too far across the

00:46:19 Louisiana-Mississippi line

00:46:21 to the Stennis Space Center.

00:46:23 They test the rockets.

00:46:25 And then the assembled

00:46:27 core of the rocket

00:46:29 is barged to the

00:46:31 Kennedy Space Center, where then

00:46:33 vertically it is

00:46:35 stacked

00:46:37 in the Vehicle Assembly Building.

00:46:39 This next

00:46:41 Artemis II that will go next year

00:46:43 will start to be

00:46:45 stacked this summer.

00:46:47 The solid rockets

00:46:49 first, and then the core stage

00:46:51 that's made in

00:46:53 Louisiana will be done

00:46:55 this fall.

00:46:57 We tested it without

00:47:01 a crew.

00:47:03 The rocket performed

00:47:05 flawlessly.

00:47:07 It was so good

00:47:09 that we did a whole bunch of

00:47:11 additional tests.

00:47:13 But now the test is

00:47:15 to put

00:47:17 four human beings

00:47:19 in that spacecraft on the top of the rocket.

00:47:21 And that's the next

00:47:23 mission, to check out all

00:47:25 the life support systems in

00:47:27 the spacecraft, which is the capsule

00:47:29 on top called Orion.

00:47:31 And then

00:47:33 the third one is where

00:47:35 we go into lunar orbit.

00:47:37 They transfer

00:47:39 into a SpaceX lander.

00:47:41 It goes down. They stay

00:47:43 six days on the surface.

00:47:45 We're only going to send two

00:47:47 of four astronauts down.

00:47:49 They come back and rendezvous

00:47:51 in lunar orbit and

00:47:53 then come home.

00:47:55 My time's up. Doctor,

00:47:57 thank you for your service.

00:47:59 Don't forget Louisiana.

00:48:01 Thank you. I would love to come and visit Louisiana.

00:48:03 You're welcome any time.

00:48:05 One of the ten regional innovation engines,

00:48:07 Senator, last time you asked the question, if I can

00:48:09 just take a minute. Sure. You said... Take all the

00:48:11 time you need. You said

00:48:13 to me, we need to make sure

00:48:15 that opportunities, ideas,

00:48:17 talent is everywhere. We need to energize it everywhere.

00:48:19 Senator, I'm very pleased to report

00:48:21 that one of the ten regional innovation

00:48:23 engines, Type 2, which is a large scale

00:48:25 on energy, is in

00:48:27 Louisiana. And we have launched it

00:48:29 and we're very happy to do it with the governor

00:48:31 in an event that happened in

00:48:33 Louisiana. So I just wanted you to know that

00:48:35 in addition to that, we have also got

00:48:37 the National AI Research Resource,

00:48:39 and University of Louisiana

00:48:41 is one of those projects.

00:48:43 So you'll be happy to know that we

00:48:45 are taking this message of the entire

00:48:47 nation has got capacity to contribute

00:48:49 and we should leverage that. So I just wanted you

00:48:51 to know. Thank you.

00:48:53 Thank you, Senator Kennedy. Senator

00:48:55 Heinrich.

00:48:57 Administrator Nelson,

00:48:59 you and I have talked about this before,

00:49:01 but I am very

00:49:03 concerned about the NASA

00:49:05 caused damage to New Mexico's

00:49:07 groundwater at the White Sands

00:49:09 Test Facility,

00:49:11 NDMA, TCE,

00:49:13 and I've

00:49:15 raised this with you in the past,

00:49:17 but I want to be very clear that

00:49:19 NASA needs to get this

00:49:21 wrapped up and compensate the state of

00:49:23 New Mexico. What's the status

00:49:25 of your settlement negotiations

00:49:27 with the New Mexico Natural Resources

00:49:29 Trustee? We

00:49:31 have spent

00:49:33 $200 million to date

00:49:35 to investigate

00:49:37 and address the groundwater

00:49:39 issue. We continue to

00:49:41 investigate the sources of

00:49:43 contamination, and NASA

00:49:45 continues to work closely

00:49:47 with DOJ

00:49:49 and your New Mexico

00:49:51 scientific

00:49:53 agency, environmental

00:49:55 agency, on what needs

00:49:57 to be done to

00:49:59 meet the final

00:50:01 settlement discussions.

00:50:03 Okay.

00:50:05 Before I was in Congress, I

00:50:07 was the New Mexico Natural Resources

00:50:09 Trustee, and I've got a lot

00:50:11 of experience with federal agencies

00:50:13 really moving

00:50:15 very slowly in those negotiations,

00:50:17 so I would urge you

00:50:19 to simply try

00:50:21 to get to yes,

00:50:23 and make sure it's on a reasonable

00:50:25 timeline, because there is nothing more

00:50:27 valuable to New Mexicans than their water.

00:50:29 Absolutely. We've done

00:50:31 this in other states,

00:50:33 and I can tell you straight up

00:50:35 that we will continue this

00:50:37 in New Mexico. Thank you,

00:50:39 Administrator. Dr.

00:50:41 Panch, talk a little

00:50:43 bit more about the National

00:50:45 AI Research Resource,

00:50:47 and specifically,

00:50:49 how important do you think it is to

00:50:51 pass

00:50:53 things like the CREATE AI

00:50:55 Act that will build on that momentum?

00:50:57 Thank you very much, Senator,

00:50:59 for that important question. First of all, I want

00:51:01 to express my gratitude for your leadership

00:51:03 as a co-chair of the AI Caucus

00:51:05 and the CREATE AI Act,

00:51:07 and also thank you for being present in the

00:51:09 showcase that we had on the AI Institute.

00:51:11 You saw first hand... It was incredible.

00:51:13 First hand, the 25 AI Institutes,

00:51:15 the people, the ideas, the translation,

00:51:17 the new companies that are emerging.

00:51:19 So, to answer your question

00:51:21 on the Nair, as you know, we had

00:51:23 a 90-day, from the executive

00:51:25 order of President Biden, 90-day

00:51:27 timeline that was given to us to launch NairPilot.

00:51:29 And this is an inter-agency

00:51:31 effort. All agencies working

00:51:33 together. I'm so proud to say in 90 days

00:51:35 we got 12 federal agencies,

00:51:37 NSF, DOE, NASA,

00:51:39 and all of the federal agencies

00:51:41 working together. And

00:51:43 now, on top of that, we

00:51:45 have 25 non-federal,

00:51:47 non-government agencies as part of the

00:51:49 NairPilot. So we put in $30 million

00:51:51 as part of the pilot. We got, you know,

00:51:53 the who's who in AI, you know,

00:51:55 NVIDIA put in $30 million,

00:51:57 Microsoft $20 million of resources, and $10 million from Amazon,

00:51:59 everybody. And so this is

00:52:01 a phenomenal accomplishment,

00:52:03 I would say. But it also

00:52:05 testifies to the fact there is so much interest in

00:52:07 wanting to have this done. Why is Nair

00:52:09 important, to your question again?

00:52:11 We cannot have, where

00:52:13 AI talent and ideas are everywhere,

00:52:15 that only the haves

00:52:17 have the ability to be able to exercise those

00:52:19 ideas because they have access to resources.

00:52:21 It's got to be for everyone

00:52:23 so we unleash every possible

00:52:25 idea and innovation all across our nation.

00:52:27 That's why Nair is very, very

00:52:29 important. So we need to go to full

00:52:31 scale Nair very, very quickly.

00:52:33 And so the Create AI Act, I'm so grateful

00:52:35 to your leadership

00:52:37 and in Congress because

00:52:39 that's what's going to get us the Nair

00:52:41 investments in time. And I can assure

00:52:43 you it will not be just only federal investments.

00:52:45 We will bring, like what we have shown in the pilot,

00:52:47 companion investments to make sure

00:52:49 that we're unleashing every possible idea, talent,

00:52:51 and innovation across our nation.

00:52:53 When you look at some of the

00:52:55 co-sponsors from across the

00:52:57 aisle that have joined us on that

00:52:59 Create AI Act, it's that

00:53:01 idea of democratizing this

00:53:03 to every state that is very

00:53:05 appealing to them. I want

00:53:07 to touch on something that's related to that

00:53:09 and that's the EPSCOR Track

00:53:11 One program because

00:53:13 it gave states like New Mexico

00:53:15 a fair shot at securing

00:53:17 federal research dollars. And

00:53:19 the decision to do away with

00:53:21 EPSCOR Track One has been

00:53:23 a real blow to New Mexico

00:53:25 in particular. I want to

00:53:27 see the New Mexico EPSCOR State Office

00:53:29 funded and I want to ask you

00:53:31 will you work with me to get this done

00:53:33 with some sort of bridge funding while

00:53:35 you sort out how to fill the gaps

00:53:37 that were created by doing away

00:53:39 with EPSCOR Track One?

00:53:41 Senator, I want to characterize

00:53:43 this right. What we have done with EPSCOR

00:53:45 is not doing away with EPSCOR.

00:53:47 What we have done is in fact expanded,

00:53:49 enriched, empowered more.

00:53:51 But it has resulted in

00:53:53 the New Mexico office not being funded.

00:53:55 I'm happy to sit and talk about this to your

00:53:57 request. I'm happy to do that

00:53:59 anytime because I just want to make it very

00:54:01 clear. What we're trying to do is to expand

00:54:03 even more opportunities. I talked to Senator Reid

00:54:05 about this too. Even more opportunities

00:54:07 not just only one EPSCOR

00:54:09 jurisdiction funding but

00:54:11 through the E-COR and E-RISE programs

00:54:13 and EPSCOR Fellowship Program

00:54:15 that we're able to have many institutions

00:54:17 and many more such grants

00:54:19 being made possible to EPSCOR states.

00:54:21 That sounds great

00:54:23 but that's not been our experience.

00:54:25 I know that any

00:54:27 transition, as you can imagine, any transition

00:54:29 right now I can, we're already

00:54:31 announcing the next round of EPSCOR

00:54:33 the E-RISE and E-COR programs.

00:54:35 I understand that any transition may have

00:54:37 some challenges which are individual and I'm

00:54:39 happy to address them like I talked to

00:54:41 Senator Reid too. I'm happy to address them.

00:54:43 I'm happy to talk to you on the specific things

00:54:45 and happy to see what we can do

00:54:47 because my objective and I want to be very clear about this

00:54:49 when I said this in my remarks

00:54:51 we exceeded the

00:54:53 when I came into this office

00:54:55 into this role, EPSCOR

00:54:57 percentages were about 13 to 14 percent

00:54:59 of the NSF funding.

00:55:01 This year, sir, our chips and signs

00:55:03 allocation was 15.5 percent

00:55:05 is what we were supposed to meet. We exceeded.

00:55:07 We are at 15.9

00:55:09 in FY2023 and I expect

00:55:11 that we are going to continue in FY25, it's going to be

00:55:13 16.5. I expect that we are going to

00:55:15 outperform because I am a

00:55:17 firm believer that talent and ideas are

00:55:19 all across our nation. Everything that we do at NSF

00:55:21 you can test this. It's not just words

00:55:23 it's actions. Whether it is AI institutes

00:55:25 whether it is EPSCOR that we want to

00:55:27 make sure that talent and ideas are energized.

00:55:29 So any systemic issues

00:55:31 that precludes this

00:55:33 principle of expansion

00:55:35 we are happy to take that and see how we can be helpful.

00:55:39 Thank you.

00:55:41 Thank you Senator Heinrich. Senator Reed.

00:55:43 Well first

00:55:45 welcome

00:55:47 Senator Nelson. May I call you that?

00:55:49 But I want to follow up on

00:55:51 Senator Heinrich's

00:55:53 he asked you a very specific question.

00:55:55 Are you going to build in resources

00:55:57 so that we can keep

00:55:59 operating EPSCOR in New Mexico

00:56:01 and Rhode Island and not close

00:56:03 the offices in August?

00:56:05 The ECOR program Senator is about

00:56:07 capacity building. It is about exactly that.

00:56:09 So the two flavors that we have

00:56:11 are ECOR and ERISE. This was

00:56:13 based on a congressional report that was submitted

00:56:15 by our committee of equal opportunity.

00:56:17 It's a congressional report based recommendation.

00:56:19 The two programs, I just want to be very clear.

00:56:21 One of them is capacity building, continuing to have

00:56:23 that kind of a support for being able to have

00:56:25 EPSCOR successes.

00:56:27 The other ERISE is about

00:56:29 the state S&T plans

00:56:31 and how we might then have groups

00:56:33 incubated to expand the

00:56:35 technology capabilities of the region also.

00:56:37 So that's what these two flavors are.

00:56:39 And the fellowships are focused on individuals.

00:56:41 So all three are meant

00:56:43 not to close down, but to

00:56:45 expand and enhance. So I just want to

00:56:47 make sure that it's not misunderstood.

00:56:49 So you've not answered Senator Heinrich's

00:56:51 question. You've not answered my question.

00:56:53 Are you going to make provisions so

00:56:55 that the EPSCOR offices

00:56:57 will not be forced to be closed

00:56:59 in August or so?

00:57:01 That is a transition.

00:57:03 I think that's a good question.

00:57:05 I think that's a good question.

00:57:07 I think that's a good question.

00:57:09 I think that's a good question.

00:57:11 I think that's a good question.

00:57:13 I think that's a good question.

00:57:15 I think that's a good question.

00:57:17 I think that's a good question.

00:57:19 I think that's a good question.

00:57:21 I think that's a good question.

00:57:23 I think that's a good question.

00:57:25 I think that's a good question.

00:57:27 I think that's a good question.

00:57:29 I think that's a good question.

00:57:31 I think that's a good question.

00:57:33 I think that's a good question.

00:57:35 I think that's a good question.

00:57:37 I think that's a good question.

00:57:39 I think that's a good question.

00:57:41 I think that's a good question.

00:57:43 I think that's a good question.

00:57:45 I think that's a good question.

00:57:47 I think that's a good question.

00:57:49 I think that's a good question.

00:57:51 I think that's a good question.

00:57:53 I think that's a good question.

00:57:55 I think that's a good question.

00:57:57 I think that's a good question.

00:57:59 I think that's a good question.

00:58:01 I think that's a good question.

00:58:03 I think that's a good question.

00:58:05 I think that's a good question.

00:58:07 I think that's a good question.

00:58:09 I think that's a good question.

00:58:11 I think that's a good question.

00:58:13 I think that's a good question.

00:58:15 I think that's a good question.

00:58:17 I think that's a good question.

00:58:19 I think that's a good question.

00:58:21 I think that's a good question.

00:58:23 I think that's a good question.

00:58:25 I think that's a good question.

00:58:27 I think that's a good question.

00:58:29 I think that's a good question.

00:58:31 I think that's a good question.

00:58:33 I think that's a good question.

00:58:35 I think that's a good question.

00:58:37 I think that's a good question.

00:58:39 I think that's a good question.

00:58:41 I think that's a good question.

00:58:43 I think that's a good question.

00:58:45 I think that's a good question.

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00:58:51 I think that's a good question.

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00:58:55 I think that's a good question.

00:58:57 I think that's a good question.

00:58:59 I think that's a good question.

00:59:01 I think that's a good question.

00:59:03 I think that's a good question.

00:59:05 I think that's a good question.

00:59:07 I think that's a good question.

00:59:09 I think that's a good question.

00:59:11 I think that's a good question.

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00:59:15 I think that's a good question.

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00:59:39 I think that's a good question.

00:59:41 I think that's a good question.

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00:59:47 I think that's a good question.

00:59:49 I think that's a good question.

00:59:51 I think that's a good question.

00:59:53 I think that's a good question.

00:59:55 I think that's a good question.

00:59:57 I think that's a good question.

00:59:59 I think that's a good question.

01:00:01 I think that's a good question.

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01:00:05 I think that's a good question.

01:00:07 I think that's a good question.

01:00:09 I think that's a good question.

01:00:11 I think that's a good question.

01:00:13 I think that's a good question.

01:00:15 I think that's a good question.

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01:00:21 I think that's a good question.

01:00:23 I think that's a good question.

01:00:25 I think that's a good question.

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01:00:39 I think that's a good question.

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01:00:43 I think that's a good question.

01:00:45 I think that's a good question.

01:00:47 I think that's a good question.

01:00:49 I think that's a good question.

01:00:51 I think that's a good question.

01:00:53 I think that's a good question.

01:00:55 I think that's a good question.

01:00:57 I think that's a good question.

01:00:59 I think that's a good question.

01:01:01 I think that's a good question.

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01:01:05 I think that's a good question.

01:01:07 I think that's a good question.

01:01:09 I think that's a good question.

01:01:11 I think that's a good question.

01:01:13 I think that's a good question.

01:01:15 I think that's a good question.

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01:01:19 I think that's a good question.

01:01:21 I think that's a good question.

01:01:23 I think that's a good question.

01:01:25 I think that's a good question.

01:01:27 I think that's a good question.

01:01:29 I think that's a good question.

01:01:31 I think that's a good question.

01:01:33 I think that's a good question.

01:01:35 I think that's a good question.

01:01:37 I think that's a good question.

01:01:39 I think that's a good question.

01:01:41 I think that's a good question.

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01:01:45 I think that's a good question.

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01:01:49 I think that's a good question.

01:01:51 I think that's a good question.

01:01:53 I think that's a good question.

01:01:55 I think that's a good question.

01:01:57 I think that's a good question.

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01:02:05 I think that's a good question.

01:02:07 I think that's a good question.

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01:02:23 I think that's a good question.

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01:02:35 I think that's a good question.

01:02:37 I think that's a good question.

01:02:39 I think that's a good question.

01:02:41 I think that's a good question.

01:02:43 I think that's a good question.

01:02:45 I think that's a good question.

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01:02:55 I think that's a good question.

01:02:57 I think that's a good question.

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01:03:07 I think that's a good question.

01:03:09 I think that's a good question.

01:03:11 I think that's a good question.

01:03:13 I think that's a good question.

01:03:15 I think that's a good question.

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01:03:47 I think that's a good question.

01:03:49 I think that's a good question.

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01:03:53 I think that's a good question.

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01:12:47 I think that's a good question.

01:12:49 I think that's a good question.

01:12:51 I think that's a good question.

01:12:53 I think that's a good question.

01:12:55 I think that's a good question.

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01:12:59 I think that's a good question.

01:13:01 I think that's a good question.

01:13:03 I think that's a good question.

01:13:05 I think that's a good question.

01:13:07 I think that's a good question.

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01:13:13 I think that's a good question.

01:13:15 I think that's a good question.

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01:13:33 I think that's a good question.

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01:13:41 I think that's a good question.

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01:13:45 I think that's a good question.

01:13:47 I think that's a good question.

01:13:49 I think that's a good question.

01:13:51 I think that's a good question.

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01:14:01 I think that's a good question.

01:14:03 I think that's a good question.

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01:15:01 I think that's a good question.

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01:26:01 I think that's a good question.

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01:27:01 I think that's a good question.

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01:30:55 I think that's a good question.

01:30:57 I think that's a good question.

01:30:59 I think that's a good question.

01:31:01 I think that's a good question.

01:31:03 I think that's a good question.

01:31:05 I think that's a good question.

01:31:07 I think that's a good question.

01:31:09 I think that's a good question.

01:31:11 I think that's a good question.

01:31:13 I think that's a good question.

01:31:15 I think that's a good question.

01:31:17 I think that's a good question.

01:31:19 I think that's a good question.

01:31:21 I think that's a good question.

01:31:23 I think that's a good question.

01:31:25 I think that's a good question.

01:31:27 I think that's a good question.

01:31:29 I think that's a good question.

01:31:31 I think that's a good question.

01:31:33 I think that's a good question.

01:31:35 I think that's a good question.

01:31:37 I think that's a good question.

01:31:39 I think that's a good question.

01:31:41 I think that's a good question.

01:31:43 I think that's a good question.

01:31:45 I think that's a good question.

01:31:47 I think that's a good question.

01:31:49 I think that's a good question.

01:31:51 I think that's a good question.

01:31:53 I think that's a good question.

01:31:55 I think that's a good question.

01:31:57 I think that's a good question.

01:31:59 I think that's a good question.

01:32:01 I think that's a good question.

01:32:03 I think that's a good question.

01:32:05 I think that's a good question.

01:32:07 I think that's a good question.

01:32:09 I think that's a good question.

01:32:11 I think that's a good question.

01:32:13 I think that's a good question.

01:32:15 I think that's a good question.

01:32:17 I think that's a good question.

01:32:19 I think that's a good question.

01:32:21 I think that's a good question.

01:32:23 I think that's a good question.

01:32:25 I think that's a good question.

01:32:27 I think that's a good question.

01:32:29 I think that's a good question.

01:32:31 I think that's a good question.

01:32:33 I think that's a good question.

01:32:35 I think that's a good question.

01:32:37 I think that's a good question.

01:32:39 I think that's a good question.

01:32:41 I think that's a good question.

01:32:43 I think that's a good question.

01:32:45 I think that's a good question.

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