Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 29th February 2024

  • 8 months ago
#nationalassembly #government #PTI #PMLN #PPP #ShahidKhaqanAbbasi #mustafanawazkhokhar

۔New Political Party in Pakistan - Shahid Khaqan Abbasi Told Everything

۔"Form 47 hamesha jeet'ta hai," Shahid Khaqan and Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar's interesting analysis

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Transcript
00:00 Assalamu Alaikum, you are watching Kashif Abbasi with the national assembly meeting.
00:06 You have seen the events and the issues.
00:10 How in today's meeting, the same scenes were seen in the last 5 years of the assembly.
00:19 At that time there was a government and the opposition was protesting like this.
00:25 The Prime Minister was not allowed to give a speech at that time.
00:27 Even today, Imran Khan's poster was raised.
00:30 People of Tariq-e-Insaf are present in the assembly.
00:32 In the speeches, the same allegations were made and the mandate was stolen.
00:38 How they will be treated in the elections.
00:40 This was said by Barrister Gaur, who is the chairman.
00:45 Now we also understand who is the chairman and who is not.
00:49 Sometimes the election commission makes someone the chairman and sometimes it finishes someone.
00:53 But what will we see in these situations and incidents?
00:56 There is a lot of noise and commotion in this assembly.
00:59 During the assembly speech, Khwaja Asif Sahib used his watch.
01:03 There were slogans of thieves.
01:05 On one side, there were slogans of vote thieves and on the other side, there were slogans of watch thieves.
01:08 Will this assembly take out its time in these slogans or will it try to do so?
01:14 Shahid Khakha Nawaz is present.
01:16 Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar is present.
01:18 Thank you very much for both the guests.
01:19 Shahid Sahib, let's start with you.
01:21 Till when do you intend to make it a party?
01:23 The assembly has just started.
01:26 The party, God willing, is in people's minds.
01:30 I have said before that it is needed.
01:33 But when will you make it?
01:34 We are still thinking.
01:35 It will be made.
01:36 When?
01:37 It took four weeks to make the government.
01:40 It should take four months to make a party.
01:42 It has been four months since you made a party.
01:44 No, no.
01:45 You went to London.
01:46 I think it has been how many months since you went to London to meet Mian Sahib.
01:48 We had said that we will not talk about this before the elections.
01:51 Now the elections have taken place.
01:52 Now we will consult with people.
01:54 So, the possibility is still there.
01:57 Yes, yes, absolutely.
01:58 Is it possible or will it be made?
02:00 It will be made, God willing.
02:01 There is a need.
02:02 There is a need to fulfill that need.
02:04 If you had a party today, what would you do first?
02:07 What would be the first thing you would do?
02:09 In what?
02:10 If you had a party today.
02:11 If there was a political party.
02:12 Let's say there was not even one in the assembly.
02:14 In these incidents, what is your first order of the day as a political party?
02:18 What should be done first?
02:21 First of all, we should try to end this division.
02:26 This is a big issue.
02:28 Whatever happened in the elections, this issue has become a big issue.
02:31 Now there is a division in the society.
02:33 There is a disappointment.
02:34 Now believe me, if you leave this place, no one in this assembly is ready to accept it.
02:40 They are not ready to accept this government.
02:42 They are not ready to accept this election.
02:44 You don't see anger in the people when you go out.
02:49 Whenever we used to sit before the elections, we used to tell people to use their right to vote.
02:55 This is your right.
02:56 The government is made by your vote.
02:58 You will do it.
02:59 Now they are saying, sir, what has happened?
03:01 No, the matter has gone beyond anger.
03:04 It has gone beyond anger.
03:05 It has gone beyond disappointment.
03:06 People say, sir, it is just like that.
03:08 There is a drama.
03:09 This is a fair, this is not a circus.
03:12 This is not an election.
03:13 But Mr. Miyasa was very happy yesterday.
03:16 Yesterday he said, I don't understand at all.
03:19 Yesterday I tried to understand.
03:21 I want to tell you too.
03:23 You translate for me.
03:24 We used to give tests in Urdu.
03:26 It used to be in the test of Islam.
03:28 Translate the verse.
03:29 It is not a verse, it is a statement of Mr. Miyasa.
03:31 Translate the verse and tell me.
03:33 I read it yesterday.
03:34 Yes, read it.
03:35 Read all of it.
03:36 We can talk in our own language if you give us a chance.
03:39 I don't think it's good for more people to understand.
03:41 But come on, tell me.
03:43 Tell me what Mr. Miyasa said yesterday.
03:45 You fought a very tough battle and reached here.
03:48 You crossed the sea of fire and reached here.
03:51 This had never happened before.
03:53 Today you fought a very tough battle and reached here.
03:56 I was worried yesterday too.
03:58 What fight are you talking about?
04:00 First I thought that maybe this is Mr. Tariq Khan's parliamentary party.
04:02 And Mr. Miyasa is considering himself Imran Khan.
04:04 He said, you fought a big battle and reached here.
04:07 What kind of fight are these people from Noorli?
04:10 My sister also asked this question yesterday.
04:14 I think she also didn't understand.
04:16 No, no, on your program,
04:18 Respected Mair Sahiba,
04:21 I said that this election was very difficult for Muslim League.
04:25 Because there was no narrative and no performance.
04:28 So it was a very difficult and impossible election that the boys came.
04:32 That's one way of looking at it.
04:34 I said this yesterday,
04:36 Maybe Mr. Miyasa didn't remember.
04:38 Maybe he was told that
04:40 what is happening with Mr. Tariq Khan,
04:42 he thought that maybe it is happening with Muslim League.
04:44 That they took the symbol,
04:46 didn't let them campaign, didn't let them put the panaflex.
04:48 Then I also thought that
04:50 maybe Mr. Miyasa is saying that
04:52 you must have fought with your conscience and reached here.
04:54 That someone else won in Form 45,
04:56 you were made to win in Form 47.
04:58 There is a lot of fight,
05:00 there is an internal fight for many people.
05:02 I heard that maybe Mr. Nisar Cheema said,
05:04 I was also offered to win this election,
05:06 but I didn't give up.
05:08 And that I will give respect to the vote like this.
05:10 What are you thinking?
05:12 Which fight are you talking about?
05:14 Did I ever get an offer?
05:16 First question,
05:18 if you were offered, what would you do?
05:20 God forbid.
05:22 A person who is not satisfied with something,
05:24 and he knows that
05:26 this mandate is being given to him through a paper,
05:28 it is limited to the extent of a paper,
05:30 it has nothing to do with people.
05:32 So he should not accept it
05:34 in any way.
05:36 And neither does the voter.
05:38 Was it an offer?
05:40 No, there was no such offer.
05:42 Why did you get an offer?
05:44 I saw your billboard,
05:46 the slogans you wrote on it,
05:48 who offered you after that?
05:50 I thought it was a big deal.
05:52 After that, no one tried
05:54 that I should not come in.
05:56 Look, Mr. Kajub,
05:58 our country has been traveling in circles
06:00 for 76 years.
06:02 We are not able to get out of those circles.
06:04 And today one is acceptable,
06:06 the clip you showed of Mr. Mian,
06:08 this clip also brings out the same reality.
06:10 Today they are saying that
06:12 we fought a four-sided battle,
06:14 crossed the river of fire and reached here.
06:16 In the entire election campaign,
06:18 and before that,
06:20 the impression that was given,
06:22 the impression that is still there,
06:24 that impression has become a dirty thing.
06:26 So when you will enter the field with this impression,
06:28 and especially that community,
06:30 who a few years ago
06:32 talked about giving respect to the vote,
06:34 and made that statement popular,
06:36 and people responded to that statement.
06:38 And today you have come to the point
06:40 where you started your politics,
06:42 all those revolutionary stages
06:44 from which you passed
06:46 and reached here,
06:48 in which you established the Republic of MISA,
06:50 you put everything behind you,
06:52 all those things.
06:54 Give respect to the vote.
06:56 Where do the creatures of the universe come from?
06:58 So today, just for power,
07:00 for power,
07:02 you not only knew,
07:04 but also knew that
07:06 your comrades, your colleagues,
07:08 were only standing on the pages of the paper
07:10 under which they became MNAs,
07:12 not under the mandate of the public,
07:14 you were standing with them and taking their votes.
07:16 And today you are trying to justify that.
07:18 - In which the seat of the MIA is also suspected.
07:20 - And the form 47,
07:22 which was discussed in the media,
07:24 their own seat,
07:26 which was criticized a lot,
07:28 many people did it,
07:30 and did it justifiably,
07:32 that what a funny thing came out of it
07:34 that the votes of some candidates
07:36 came out to be zero.
07:38 - And I think the total votes
07:40 that were polled,
07:42 came out to be more than the total votes.
07:44 - So the request is...
07:46 - Something to that effect.
07:48 - The election that took place on 8th February,
07:50 I see it from this perspective,
07:52 that it was an unprecedented election
07:54 in the history of Pakistan.
07:56 Unprecedented in this regard,
07:58 our traditional wisdom...
08:00 - It was an election of 1985,
08:02 for one Jamaat.
08:04 - No, I want to say in another context,
08:06 that our traditional wisdom,
08:08 the political pandits of this country,
08:10 we all thought that
08:12 a Jamaat whose opposition
08:14 is the establishment,
08:16 who does not have its electoral sign,
08:18 whose leader is in jail,
08:20 - 50 years of punishments have been given,
08:22 but the campaign is not being done.
08:24 - No permission to run the campaign,
08:26 no flag, no banner,
08:28 no permission to set up polling camps,
08:30 so that was a lot.
08:32 So 20 seats, 25 seats, or 15 seats,
08:34 this is what our traditional wisdom
08:36 used to say.
08:38 So what happened after that,
08:40 was unprecedented.
08:42 That people, the public,
08:44 had to cross many rivers of fire
08:46 to reach the polling station,
08:48 there they had to go and get a stamp
08:50 from another camp, and go and cast their vote.
08:52 - That means people ate biryanis too.
08:54 - So this unprecedented thing
08:56 that happened,
08:58 I think that the credit that goes to
09:00 the people of Pakistan,
09:02 you cannot take that credit away from them.
09:04 - Absolutely.
09:06 - Going out and casting their vote,
09:08 there was a rebellion
09:10 involved in this.
09:12 And they did that in the
09:14 76 years that the system
09:16 is in this country.
09:18 And I think it is important to say
09:20 that the way the Muslim League
09:22 has been able to move away from the
09:24 Muslim League, and has no say in it,
09:26 the way the Justice Movement
09:28 has been able to move away from
09:30 the Muslim League,
09:32 there is nothing left for them.
09:34 So the principle contradiction
09:36 that the people of Pakistan want
09:38 to resolve is, who is going to run this country?
09:40 Look at the other countries in the region,
09:42 look at India, where it has reached,
09:44 you have started a journey together.
09:46 And today this country is 25 crore people,
09:48 it has become a governance complex,
09:50 and you are saying for the sake of this country,
09:52 for the sake of good intentions,
09:54 that we will have to leave all this old
09:56 nonsense, we will have to end
09:58 this journey of circles,
10:00 we will have to make the people the owners of their fate.
10:02 We will have to bow our heads
10:04 in front of their decisions.
10:06 And this is not an ordinary thing,
10:08 we use it often,
10:10 that the voice of the people is the voice of God.
10:12 So learn to bow your head
10:14 gracefully in front of it.
10:16 And give people a chance to govern.
10:18 Like you said, who is going to run the government?
10:20 It is the government's job.
10:22 Who is going to elect the government?
10:24 It is the people's job.
10:26 Our problem here is that,
10:28 the big problems that are increasing,
10:30 that we are eliminating the trust of the people
10:32 in this process.
10:34 But if you start from 1988,
10:36 then 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 elections.
10:38 Yes.
10:40 So, if you start from 1988,
10:42 then 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 elections.
10:44 Yes.
10:46 So, if you start from 1988,
10:48 then 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 elections.
10:50 If you were offered,
10:52 you have been in the assembly 8-9 times,
10:54 you have been the minister,
10:56 or even if you are not the minister,
10:58 you have been a very important minister many times.
11:00 And if you are offered,
11:02 that we will win the seat.
11:04 What would be your first reaction?
11:06 What would you do?
11:08 It is difficult.
11:10 I have been offered twice in the past.
11:12 In 2002 and 2018.
11:14 It is difficult for me to bear the burden.
11:16 Isn't it difficult for those people
11:18 who are sitting in the assembly seats today?
11:20 No, it is their decision.
11:22 It is a difficult task.
11:24 Believe me, you cannot sit in those seats.
11:26 I don't know how people will sit.
11:28 I thought it would be very difficult.
11:30 It was very difficult.
11:32 It was very difficult to bear the burden
11:34 that you know that you have lost.
11:36 And yet you go.
11:38 I mean, I understand a lot of people
11:40 will say that this was the same
11:42 situation in the past.
11:44 But the way it was in the last assembly,
11:46 this time it is very different.
11:48 The last election, the last election,
11:50 to a large extent,
11:52 the pre-election was managed.
11:54 No, no, whatever happened,
11:56 it happened in the elections too.
11:58 I said to a large extent,
12:00 there was pre-election,
12:02 then the election day was also managed.
12:04 But at this time,
12:06 what we are talking about now,
12:08 why are we talking about this now?
12:10 I said that the election was managed.
12:12 I said that the election was managed.
12:14 I said that in 2002 too.
12:16 Absolutely.
12:18 But then it means that
12:20 the one who has the right to manage
12:22 does not have a problem.
12:24 I said that form 47 always wins.
12:26 I was talking to my colleague,
12:28 he said that
12:30 even after Fatima Jinnah,
12:32 there was form 45.
12:34 What did 47 do?
12:36 It was with Ayub Khan.
12:38 Form 47 always wins.
12:40 The people who wanted to,
12:42 will win form 47.
12:44 This is a big debate.
12:46 But this story should end now.
12:48 It should end.
12:50 Listen to me,
12:52 I am trying to give it a little twist.
12:54 If you can allow me.
12:56 On one hand you say that
12:58 it is an establishment.
13:00 Tell me, there are also politicians
13:02 who should make decisions
13:04 and say that this is not my seat,
13:06 where are those politicians?
13:08 How many?
13:10 They are in the elections.
13:12 They are also in the elections.
13:16 You will find them in the elections.
13:18 Imran Khan is also like this.
13:20 Exactly. Do you understand what I am saying?
13:22 How many people are there who
13:24 refuse to do it?
13:26 When you talk about principles,
13:28 who should I expect from?
13:30 I will expect the principles from you.
13:32 The people who talk about the constitution,
13:34 who talk about the principles,
13:36 I should expect from you
13:38 that you will stand on the principles.
13:40 Not just for your rights,
13:42 but for my rights and for the rights of others.
13:44 But how easily we say in this country,
13:46 and in Pakistan, no election was held
13:48 except for the 70th.
13:50 How easily we say this.
13:52 Because we have accepted this reality.
13:54 And we did not accept the result of 70.
13:56 That election also failed.
14:02 Now, what should we do?
14:04 What should we do?
14:06 I have been saying this for a long time.
14:08 What should we do?
14:10 I say that you should
14:12 hold three elections in this country.
14:14 The country will move forward.
14:16 There will be pain.
14:18 The people will make a mistake once.
14:20 They will make it better the second time.
14:22 The third time it will be better.
14:24 It will be fine.
14:26 The people have always delivered.
14:28 You can see this in the elections.
14:30 People have voted.
14:32 And they have voted without any fear.
14:34 But, obviously,
14:36 they say, where is this?
14:38 This was a very unique election.
14:40 What Mr. Mushtaq said is a reality.
14:42 It was a unique election.
14:44 They were fighting in two rings.
14:46 It is unique because
14:48 people like them are not alone.
14:50 I have seen in many rings that
14:52 candidates for the second and third
14:54 are saying that this is my form 45.
14:56 It will be wrong.
14:58 But, tell me about the politicians.
15:00 There is a political angle to this.
15:02 I will come to that too.
15:04 Why didn't the new politician
15:06 stand up in 2018 and say that
15:08 he doesn't need your help?
15:10 Why didn't he stand up in 2024 and say
15:12 that he cannot win like this.
15:14 I cannot bear this burden.
15:16 Look, Kashif bhai, frankly,
15:18 the political circles I was
15:20 talking about,
15:22 all political parties have
15:24 accepted that the path to power
15:26 is through Rawalpindi and Islamabad.
15:28 Where big political parties
15:30 and big leaders have
15:32 accepted this,
15:34 then what is the status
15:36 of the people who follow them?
15:38 So, we don't have anything
15:40 called morality, even personally.
15:42 Look, there are very few.
15:44 People remain silent in political
15:46 parties under their compulsion,
15:48 keep talking, but their words
15:50 are not heard, they are not followed.
15:52 We have so many friends in different
15:54 political parties who are ashamed
15:56 of the style of their leaders.
15:58 But they have become a part
16:00 of that system in such a way
16:02 that they cannot get out of it.
16:04 But there are many things.
16:06 I want to say something.
16:08 Being ashamed of the style of the leaders
16:10 and their own style of action.
16:12 Look, this decision is to be made
16:14 by any political party leader.
16:16 I know I have lost.
16:18 And I will go and do a press conference
16:20 because I have won.
16:22 But in this election,
16:24 some people have come forward.
16:26 Khwaja Saad Rafiq is being named.
16:28 Khurram Dastagir Laq is being named.
16:30 Today, someone told me about another
16:32 person, I could not confirm him.
16:34 But people came forward
16:36 and they also gracefully
16:38 accepted their defeat.
16:40 Hoti sahib from Mardan,
16:42 Haider Hoti sahib, he did this.
16:44 Samar Bilore sahiba,
16:46 she did this in Peshawar.
16:48 She went to her opponent's house
16:50 with a bouquet.
16:52 So you will see these examples
16:54 with time and process.
16:56 But as Shahid bhai was saying,
16:58 in Pakistan's history,
17:00 in the 76 years of history,
17:02 no Prime Minister could complete his term.
17:04 We remember the third year of
17:06 Imran Khan's era,
17:08 as Prime Minister,
17:10 he was in power.
17:12 Local government elections came
17:14 under Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
17:16 People were not satisfied with
17:18 the elections.
17:20 Being Prime Minister,
17:22 being in power,
17:24 the local government lost the elections.
17:26 If they were allowed to complete
17:28 5 years, then after those 5 years,
17:30 when they had to come out in public,
17:32 they would have to face the question
17:34 of 1 crore jobs, 50 lakh houses.
17:36 It was about issues.
17:38 When you remove a person before time,
17:40 then he goes to people with
17:42 sympathies and victimhood statements
17:44 and people vote for him.
17:46 But the people are not satisfied.
17:48 Yesterday, electricity was made
17:50 7 rupees per unit expensive.
17:52 People are getting gas bills.
17:54 In villages, there is a common house,
17:56 a common well,
17:58 which does not have much consumption.
18:00 No one has received a bill less than 40,000.
18:02 People are screaming at the moment
18:04 because of the inflation.
18:06 But there is no discussion
18:08 about these issues.
18:10 Today, in the National Assembly,
18:12 when someone was talking to each other,
18:14 people's issues were left behind.
18:16 The society has become so polarized.
18:18 The distribution of resources
18:20 has increased so much
18:22 that people's issues are not being discussed.
18:24 We have to keep this fact in mind
18:26 that this is a country of 25 crore people.
18:28 All political elites,
18:30 including all of us,
18:32 including the media,
18:34 including the bureaucracy,
18:36 including the judiciary,
18:38 including the establishment,
18:40 have all together failed
18:42 the people of this country.
18:44 If people are not able to live
18:46 a respectable life in this country,
18:48 then it is because of our mistakes.
18:50 They have not made any mistakes.
18:52 They made the right decision in this election.
18:54 They made the right decision
18:56 in the previous election.
18:58 People always made the right decision
19:00 based on the options they had.
19:02 But we failed.
19:04 And our failure,
19:06 if we do not fix our issues,
19:08 then today you are only
19:10 a few days away from the elections.
19:12 You have seen the Modi's case.
19:14 You need a program of 6-7 billion dollars.
19:16 We know and we are thinking
19:18 about the cost of that program.
19:20 You will have to increase
19:22 the taxation.
19:24 Your energy prices will be more expensive.
19:26 You will have to close
19:28 state-owned enterprises.
19:30 There will be layoffs.
19:32 Nobody does this in my opinion.
19:34 You tell me, how much tax do Karachi and Lahore generate?
19:36 Exactly.
19:38 We will have to pay tax.
19:40 Where is the discussion of reforms?
19:42 First tell me,
19:44 where will the discussion of reforms
19:46 be when everyone is thinking
19:48 about it.
19:50 I am talking to a journalist
19:52 and he said that we have been thinking
19:54 about the Punjab government for a year.
19:56 Whatever has to be delivered,
19:58 whatever time has been added,
20:00 we have been thinking about it for a year.
20:02 How will the country work in this way?
20:04 The country does not work in a year.
20:06 The country has been standing for a year.
20:08 This is a matter of decades.
20:10 If the loyalty of the people does not work,
20:12 how will it work in the morning?
20:14 If the cost of living is not reduced,
20:16 how will the condition of the country
20:18 improve?
20:20 If you do not generate much revenue,
20:22 you will take more loans,
20:24 all your money will be spent on interest.
20:26 How will the country work?
20:28 Where will you grow from?
20:30 Where will you create jobs?
20:32 What will you do?
20:34 I am telling you the truth.
20:36 The country can never work in this way.
20:38 Is there a way to end this division?
20:40 Or is there a way to increase it?
20:42 This is a failure of leadership.
20:44 You said that how can we sit today?
20:46 Why did you accept the election?
20:48 This is a failure of leadership.
20:50 Political leadership is the most important.
20:52 If political leadership was in the principles,
20:54 we would not have reached here.
20:56 Now, difficult situations are for you.
20:58 Even today, try to end this division.
21:00 So, it is a bankruptcy?
21:02 Let's be honest.
21:04 It is a bankruptcy.
21:06 Which institution do you see
21:08 and say that it is working?
21:10 There is no bankruptcy in the public.
21:12 I am telling you again that
21:14 this is our dishonesty.
21:16 If there was a bankruptcy in the public,
21:18 they would have decided
21:20 the way they decided.
21:22 It was a challenge.
21:24 It was decided against the system.
21:26 It was decided against the system.
21:28 If they have rebelled,
21:30 they have done it through their vote.
21:32 This is also a good thing.
21:34 But when we see the election commission
21:36 of Pakistan,
21:38 they are still discussing
21:40 whether to give reserve seats or not.
21:42 Kashif bhai,
21:44 you said in the beginning of the program
21:46 that people are angry.
21:48 Shahid bhai said about disappointment.
21:50 We should not take these things for granted.
21:52 Today, we have a good thing
21:54 that we have a good thing.
21:56 Today, we have a good thing
21:58 that people have decided through their vote.
22:00 If we do not accept it,
22:02 people will have the fear
22:04 of going to another extreme.
22:06 And as a result,
22:08 the society in which
22:10 unprecedented events started,
22:12 the unprecedented event happened on 8th February,
22:14 in response to that,
22:16 an unprecedented event came.
22:18 Form 47.
22:20 Before this,
22:22 there was a pretense in the elections.
22:24 People were saying,
22:26 we will manage it.
22:28 We knew where the election was going.
22:30 We pushed a little.
22:32 Here, it was brazenly.
22:34 Then, the next day or three days later,
22:36 you had to issue form 47.
22:38 The law says that the election commission
22:40 will issue all forms 45, 46, 47
22:42 within 14 days.
22:44 It will put all these forms on its website.
22:46 It is not able to do it till date.
22:48 Because it is not there.
22:50 They are distributing it.
22:52 We have entered into
22:54 the territory of unprecedented events.
22:56 And this pretense
22:58 that is being made by the government,
23:00 this fraud will not work.
23:02 And now...
23:04 How much will it work?
23:06 Let's talk about it after the break.
23:08 I am being told to take a break.
23:10 Let's take a break, Nazeem.
23:12 We will come back after the break.
23:14 Welcome back, Nazeem.
23:16 How much will it work, Shahid sir?
23:18 Whatever,
23:20 the government is running it.
23:22 How long do you think it will last?
23:24 The parliament and all,
23:26 it can run for five years.
23:28 The country will not work.
23:30 I am telling you.
23:32 When you say the country will not work,
23:34 what do you mean?
23:36 The country cannot improve.
23:38 The condition of the country will remain the same?
23:40 Yes, it will.
23:42 We will spend time and it will work.
23:44 I am saying that there is no time.
23:46 This problem has arisen.
23:48 The political parties should have
23:50 the troubleshooters and resolution problems.
23:52 They are the ones who find the solutions.
23:54 The institutions have only one solution.
23:56 That is their solution.
23:58 They say, this is our solution.
24:00 Take it or leave it.
24:02 The politicians find the solutions.
24:04 In this system,
24:06 the ones who solve the problem,
24:08 the ones who talk about discrimination,
24:10 the strictness,
24:12 the polarization, the problems,
24:14 who do you see?
24:16 Nawaz Sharif.
24:18 Let me flip the question.
24:20 If you were Nawaz Sharif, what would you do?
24:22 The PM has already decided.
24:26 He has already said everything.
24:28 The problem is that
24:30 the government that you are building
24:32 is not in accordance with the public opinion.
24:34 This is the problem.
24:36 What will you do now?
24:38 How will it work?
24:40 What would you do if you were Nawaz Sharif?
24:42 What would I do?
24:44 If you had accepted the results of the elections,
24:46 then your opinion would have been different.
24:48 Once the whole thing is done,
24:52 the public opinion is negated,
24:54 then the situation will get worse.
24:56 Then you will not have any option.
24:58 You will not have any option.
25:00 Both parties did not want to form a government,
25:02 then they had to form one.
25:04 If you were in power,
25:06 you would not have formed a government.
25:08 You would have said, he won, we lost,
25:10 we accept our defeat,
25:12 we accept our defeat.
25:14 I would not have formed a government
25:16 even if I was in power.
25:18 This is my opinion.
25:20 I can be wrong.
25:22 But you would have taken political steps.
25:24 You would not have said,
25:26 I would not have formed a government
25:28 and sit at home.
25:30 What political steps would you have taken?
25:32 You talk about the country.
25:34 You say that we have to solve the country's problems.
25:36 We need to sit together.
25:38 Because today,
25:40 if we look at the selfish political interests,
25:42 then PMLN will be at a loss.
25:44 What is the party saying?
25:46 We will support,
25:48 but not support.
25:50 Mr. Mukhsoor has written
25:52 a statement,
25:54 I will send it to you.
25:56 Can't it be told on TV?
25:58 No, it can't be told on TV.
26:00 You said, I will send it,
26:02 I understood it was on TV.
26:04 You did not put a wrong comment.
26:06 What is this?
26:08 It is a good thing that we will not support,
26:10 but support.
26:12 When you support, you will become a supporter.
26:14 Will you sit in the opposition or the government?
26:16 You said you are a girlfriend,
26:18 you don't want to get married.
26:20 Yes, I am not.
26:22 You want to go ahead,
26:24 I will stop here.
26:26 I know he is going ahead.
26:28 I am a little behind him.
26:30 If you were Mian Shabaz Sharif,
26:32 what would you do?
26:34 To get out of this problem?
26:36 If I was Mian Sharif,
26:38 I would do exactly what I am doing.
26:40 If I was Mian Sharif,
26:42 I would not accept this as the last leg of my political career.
26:44 I would not even go to pick up the sledgehammer.
26:46 Mr. Shabaz always talks
26:48 about the wrong, negative things.
26:50 No, he is on record.
26:52 He has a style of politics,
26:54 and he does not even consider it bad.
26:56 He thinks it is right.
26:58 He thinks it is good.
27:00 I am the star of the army.
27:02 He is on record with these things.
27:04 I am the star of the army.
27:06 But Mian Nawaz Sharif...
27:08 You know,
27:10 that conversation
27:12 was held in front of 50 people.
27:14 After that, I denied it.
27:16 But we remember the inauguration
27:18 of the bridge.
27:20 When he built the Barakobu Bypass,
27:22 he also talked about this.
27:24 He has always had a view
27:26 in politics.
27:28 And it is okay,
27:30 we respect his view,
27:32 we do not agree with it.
27:34 But the way he passed through
27:36 the inauguration,
27:38 his political career
27:40 started earlier,
27:42 but there was a moment
27:44 when he said that he will not
27:46 take the dictation in 1993.
27:48 After that, he also formed his own Jamaat.
27:50 And in his
27:52 rise,
27:54 he also freed himself from those chains.
27:56 After freeing himself,
27:58 he started taking his positions
28:00 in politics.
28:02 At least, this should not have
28:04 happened to his positions.
28:06 I would have been in his place.
28:08 Believe me, I would have said
28:10 that I did not accept victory
28:12 under Form 47.
28:14 I would not have gone to pick up the hulf.
28:16 With my example,
28:18 the people of my party,
28:20 they would have stood behind me.
28:22 And I would have said that I will
28:24 sit in the opposition, let the people
28:26 who have been mandated by the people
28:28 of my party,
28:30 they are national leaders,
28:32 and they had to go up.
28:34 But the thing that they have
28:36 accepted,
28:38 I would not have expected
28:40 this.
28:42 Mr. Shah, you have been with him
28:44 for a long time, since 1988.
28:46 When was the last time you saw
28:48 such a deal,
28:50 so entrenched, so deep?
28:52 But who do you call a deal?
28:54 This whole matter was born
28:56 in 2022.
28:58 On 9th April
29:00 2022,
29:02 Pakistan Government
29:04 took majority on
29:06 Form 45.
29:08 Form 47 was not needed.
29:10 On 45, you had majority.
29:12 On 9th April
29:14 2022.
29:16 Which led to the lack of confidence.
29:18 After lack of confidence,
29:20 if you had gone to the elections,
29:22 your situation would have been different.
29:24 Completely, politically,
29:26 you would have been bankrupt.
29:28 You would have been left with no place to go.
29:30 That has caused a lot of loss,
29:32 which you have seen in the elections.
29:34 Now, the decisions you have taken,
29:36 have widened the ocean.
29:38 Your politics will be weakened.
29:40 This is my suggestion.
29:42 But sir, I want to ask something else.
29:44 If I see Mr. Mian's political
29:46 history,
29:48 Mr. Nawaz Sharif in 1985,
29:50 Mr. Mian in 1988,
29:52 Mr. Mian from IJI,
29:54 Mr. Mian from IJI,
29:56 who was a rich man,
29:58 I think that period,
30:00 we did not see it like that in the last 20 years.
30:02 We saw that Mr. Mian said
30:04 no to dictation from Lehenga,
30:06 against Musharraf,
30:08 then clearly denying General Raheel Sharif,
30:10 you deal with him, Mr. Mian,
30:12 you go away,
30:14 then take punishment, etc.
30:16 This
30:18 2024, I think,
30:20 after that, he decided
30:22 to do an anti-deal.
30:24 Is this right?
30:26 I am saying it right, or did you deal like this before?
30:28 No, this has never happened.
30:30 No such elections were held, unfortunately.
30:32 But,
30:34 the right decision Mr. Mian has taken,
30:36 which is not to come himself,
30:38 at least, this will not affect his personality.
30:40 God forbid, what are you saying?
30:42 Okay, it has a very negative effect.
30:44 I am telling you.
30:46 Listen to me, he flew from London,
30:48 he went to see off the High Commissioner of Pakistan,
30:50 he flew a pigeon here,
30:52 he knew that I had to go to Lahore from here,
30:54 I have arranged for the Jalsa,
30:56 my case is over.
30:58 He knew everything,
31:00 he was a sabre instrument.
31:02 What are you saying that he will not get anything?
31:04 He has made the deal.
31:06 If he had become the Prime Minister himself,
31:08 it would have had a very negative effect.
31:10 This is my opinion.
31:12 Would it have had a more negative effect?
31:14 I mean, because of your deals,
31:16 the party has come to 18-20 seats,
31:18 let's do 30-40 seats.
31:20 What would have been a more negative effect?
31:22 Are you talking about Form 45 or 47?
31:24 A little bit of 45 and a little bit of 47.
31:26 A little bit.
31:28 Do you realize?
31:30 Yesterday someone told me that
31:32 Maryam Nawaz has now become the CM of this party,
31:34 what else will you do to lift her?
31:36 I said, the party is sitting,
31:38 first we have to see from there,
31:40 how to lift the party from there.
31:42 Is that not true?
31:44 We should examine what happened in the election.
31:46 A lot of introspection is needed.
31:48 Very serious.
31:50 All the parties.
31:52 This election was a very extraordinary election.
31:54 Believe me.
31:56 More extraordinary than the need.
31:58 No, no, leave the extraordinary part.
32:00 The people who have voted,
32:02 it is very extraordinary.
32:04 For any country,
32:06 for our country,
32:08 it is very extraordinary.
32:10 This is the first time I have seen
32:12 people in Pakistan
32:14 who have defeated the system.
32:16 Let's be honest.
32:18 People have won.
32:20 In the last election,
32:22 they gave 50-55 seats to Mian Saab
32:24 in Central Punjab.
32:26 But that was not winning.
32:28 People have won.
32:30 If you were there, what would you do?
32:32 Instead of People's Party,
32:34 instead of Bilawal Saab,
32:36 there is a rift between Zardari Saab and Bilawal Saab.
32:38 They wanted to go to the new government.
32:40 Zardari Saab.
32:42 What would you have done?
32:44 Look,
32:46 in the politics of People's Party,
32:48 Zardari Saab
32:50 has leaned towards power politics.
32:52 And Bilawal Saab
32:54 thinks,
32:56 in my opinion,
32:58 that in Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa,
33:00 they will not be able to take back space
33:02 in other Pakistan until
33:04 they do not do such politics
33:06 which has a strong imprint
33:08 and a glimpse of their
33:10 martyr mother.
33:12 So this is basically
33:14 what is being drawn in People's Party.
33:16 And in that, the prevailing...
33:18 The fight of the views.
33:20 You can't say fight,
33:22 perhaps fight is a stronger word.
33:24 But in that, the difference is
33:26 that the one who prevails
33:28 is Zardari Saab.
33:30 And if we
33:32 look at the way
33:34 politics is going on in the country,
33:36 if we look at it in that context,
33:38 then power politics is going on.
33:40 Your mandate,
33:42 if you are not
33:44 plugged in power politics,
33:46 then you are denied.
33:48 So in that sense,
33:50 that politics is perhaps right.
33:52 But the big politics
33:54 which has to get 25 crore people
33:56 out of this crisis,
33:58 in which we are stuck,
34:00 we have to end our contradictions,
34:02 then this politics
34:04 cannot solve the problem.
34:06 When you accept that system,
34:08 then you are not able to
34:10 rectify it.
34:12 So this is basically
34:14 the flaw and I am
34:16 surprised at this.
34:18 We...
34:20 Two wars took place
34:22 in our neighborhood.
34:24 Pakistan became a part of those wars.
34:26 And they also had an impact
34:28 on our thinking, which completely
34:30 transformed us into a security state.
34:32 Today, this is happening,
34:34 the media Asatoor,
34:36 Twitter is shut down.
34:38 I want to run this program
34:40 in the last part,
34:42 Asatoor is under arrest,
34:44 Imran Riaz Khan
34:46 is also under arrest.
34:48 Yesterday I spoke to Arif Batty,
34:50 Arif Batty is not able to come
34:52 on the TV screen, he cannot come,
34:54 he has been offered.
34:56 So this is also a problem
34:58 in this issue.
35:00 This is because we
35:02 are not able to understand
35:04 that as a security state,
35:06 Pakistan cannot continue.
35:08 Its functioning
35:10 is directly
35:12 in clash with
35:14 the evolution
35:16 of our society.
35:18 It is a fundamental thing
35:20 that people say,
35:22 the intellectuals say
35:24 that you get awareness first,
35:26 and by getting awareness,
35:28 you get awareness.
35:30 And the third stage is
35:32 after getting awareness,
35:34 you ask for your rights.
35:36 So the change that has come
35:38 in our society,
35:40 we are still refusing
35:42 to accept that change.
35:44 This is the new age.
35:46 And I think this is the problem
35:48 probably that the system
35:50 is not working with the new age.
35:52 If I may say the last point,
35:54 I think that in these elections,
35:56 the biggest thing that has come
35:58 out is the failure of the
36:00 mainstream media.
36:02 I am talking about the
36:04 entire mainstream media,
36:06 on which you could not
36:08 show the campaign of a
36:10 community, their signs,
36:12 their candidates.
36:14 Despite that,
36:16 you only showed the
36:18 specific communities,
36:20 you did not show the
36:22 justice movement.
36:24 But that is there.
36:26 Technically it is fine.
36:28 We have shown all the big
36:30 competitions here.
36:32 But what I want to say is that
36:34 when you took the people's
36:36 signs in this country,
36:38 someone told me an example
36:40 of a circle and I was very
36:42 surprised to think about it.
36:44 One gentleman had a radio sign,
36:46 one had a harmonium sign,
36:48 both looked the same,
36:50 the difference was only
36:52 visible to the people.
36:54 He knew this too.
36:56 That is why it was such an
36:58 impossible campaign.
37:00 I will take a break.
37:02 We will come back after the break.

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