Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 4th October 2023
#KashifAbbasi #ShahidKhaqanAbbasi #MustafaNawazKhokhar #EjazulHaq #CJPQaziFaezIsa #ExpertAnalysis
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar (Senior Leader)
- Ijaz Ul Haq PMLZ
Has Shahid Khaqan Abbasi parted ways with Nawaz? Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar comments
"CJP admitted mistakes of his institution," Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar's critical analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Kashif Abbasi
Guests:
- Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar (Senior Leader)
- Ijaz Ul Haq PMLZ
Has Shahid Khaqan Abbasi parted ways with Nawaz? Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar comments
"CJP admitted mistakes of his institution," Mustafa Nawaz Khokhar's critical analysis
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00 Asalam-o-Alaikum, you are watching the program with Kashif Abbasi.
00:15 Politics is now in the process of elections.
00:19 The turmoil has begun.
00:21 Nawaz Sharif's return, whose 21st date has been set,
00:26 you have seen him addressing Mr. Shabaz Sharif and Hamza Shabaz Sharif in various gatherings.
00:32 The topic of healing touch was also being discussed here two days ago.
00:36 They also said that they are coming to apply ointment.
00:39 There will be no need to take revenge.
00:41 And instead of taking revenge, putting the country on the right path,
00:46 this discussion has now begun.
00:47 But of course, the purpose of this entire discussion is the preparation for Mr. Nawaz Sharif's return.
00:52 So on one hand, the politics of Muslim League Noon seems to be going on like this,
00:56 that Mr. Shabaz Sharif will return,
00:58 it also seems that he will be taken to Minar-e-Pakistan,
01:01 he will address, he will go home,
01:03 and then if he understands correctly, he will surrender somewhere.
01:08 And it is also possible that the bail has been arranged by then.
01:12 This is the politics of Muslim League Noon these days,
01:15 in which apps are also being created to gather people, motorcycles are also being distributed.
01:20 On the other hand, the politics of justice is in one case after the punishment,
01:23 so there are preparations for punishment in the second case as well.
01:26 It seems that the cipher case is also going on,
01:32 people are breaking,
01:34 statements are being made,
01:36 and all this will now become a part.
01:39 The people of justice, perhaps you will see less in the elections,
01:44 or the pressures on justice will be seen increasing.
01:48 So this is the politics of justice,
01:50 although it is in survival mode,
01:52 that will they be able to survive till the elections,
01:55 will their chairman be able to come out till the elections,
01:58 or will justice be able to compete in the elections as a party,
02:02 this is their biggest dilemma.
02:05 The third time came the politics of the People's Party,
02:07 which is the most interesting, if you say in Marale, then it may not be wrong,
02:11 they are not understanding whether we have to go this way or that way.
02:15 If you look at the statements, then at this time,
02:18 they want to criticize Maulana Sahib and Muslim League Noon,
02:21 and they do not even criticize.
02:23 They say that they will not put in any effort,
02:25 they will not say anything.
02:27 Yesterday, Khursheed Shah gave an interview,
02:30 I said that you should share that as well.
02:33 He criticized Maulana Sahib and Pakistan Muslim League Noon,
02:37 let's hear what he says about democracy and these two parties.
02:42 I am sorry for the people of Muslim League Noon, Maulana Sahib and other parties who are sitting quietly.
02:48 They have not lost anything for democracy.
02:51 The People's Party has lost so much for democracy that it is not even worth it.
02:55 Our leadership has separated from us.
02:57 Bhutto Shaheed has gone, our wife and daughter-in-law have gone for democracy.
03:01 How do they know what democracy is?
03:03 Democracy is not complete without Jalawatni.
03:06 If you are coming to Pakistan from Jalawatni for democracy,
03:11 then come and get elected.
03:13 These people have gone down the wrong path and they will get nothing but darkness.
03:19 What wrong path have they gone down?
03:20 They also try to see that they will get nothing but darkness,
03:23 but they also said that democracy is not complete without Jalawatni.
03:29 I think everyone should not agree with the sentence.
03:32 Everyone thinks that they have sacrificed for their own interest.
03:36 The People's Party has sacrificed their lives by giving Jalawatni.
03:39 But now there is a series of apologies.
03:42 They have also apologized that we should not have given the extension.
03:46 What did Shah Sahib say? Go and listen.
03:48 Did General Bajwa Sahib also ask for an extension and you gave it?
03:51 He asked for it, he asked for it and we gave it.
03:53 Why should I lie in front of the people?
03:55 We have also made mistakes.
03:57 We have made a mistake, we are sorry for the mistake.
04:00 The British have put four small words, sorry.
04:03 We are sorry, that's it.
04:04 The people will forgive us, our people are innocent.
04:06 They forgive us for our mistakes.
04:09 We are really innocent.
04:12 We accept our mistakes, we apologize.
04:15 We have been apologizing for 70 years.
04:18 Whoever comes, apologizes.
04:20 You saw yesterday, the day before yesterday,
04:22 Chief Justice of Pakistan was apologizing too.
04:24 He was admitting his mistakes.
04:26 He said that when the marshal comes, he throws the weapon.
04:29 But the problem is that when difficult times come,
04:31 no one picks up the weapon.
04:33 In this country, in the last year's politics,
04:36 there were many difficult times when someone should have stood up.
04:39 Or should have stood up.
04:41 Elections, two assemblies were held.
04:44 No one stood up.
04:46 That assembly elections should be held on time.
04:49 Whatever happened in the last eight months,
04:51 someone should have stood up.
04:52 No one stood up.
04:53 What is happening in the name of human rights here?
04:56 Today, the same tape is being repeated again,
05:00 which has happened in the past too.
05:02 Put someone in jail, give punishments,
05:04 break the pot, take people away.
05:06 All that is happening.
05:08 But no one will stand up.
05:10 Elections are going ahead of their time.
05:13 No one will stand up again.
05:15 So when time passes,
05:18 we apologize.
05:20 When time is on our head,
05:22 people don't apologize.
05:24 In fact, many times,
05:26 they become active participants.
05:28 Many times, they become silent participants.
05:30 And that is why we have come here in 70 years,
05:33 and today our Pakistan is standing.
05:35 There is democracy in it,
05:37 and there is no democracy in it.
05:38 There is democracy because we sometimes
05:40 get elections done with our help,
05:42 and not because the elections are like that.
05:44 The next five years, the same election is criticized,
05:47 and our country's politics is formed.
05:49 Will the politics that we are carrying on now,
05:53 take us to a closed lane?
05:56 Will it show us a light?
05:58 Will it show us a way?
05:59 Mr. Mustafa Anwar Koker is with us.
06:01 Mr. Ijaz-ul-Haq is with us.
06:03 Thank you very much, Mr. Ijaz-ul-Haq.
06:05 I will give permission.
06:06 Mr. Koker, yesterday,
06:07 Shahid Khan Khanabai met Mr. Mian Al-Wadai.
06:11 He will come back.
06:12 He is coming back on Friday.
06:14 I did not talk to him on the phone.
06:16 I did not ask him.
06:17 Because this is a conversation that we will sit down
06:19 and talk to him.
06:20 He will come back.
06:21 The statement that he gave after leaving,
06:24 that statement is in front of everyone.
06:26 In that, he…
06:28 Al-Wadai is visible.
06:29 Now…
06:30 He is visible, right?
06:31 I think when he comes back,
06:32 then we will have to talk about it.
06:33 My news was that he was saying that
06:35 he has a 35-year relationship.
06:37 I will go.
06:38 Obviously, he will take permission from him
06:40 and separate from him.
06:42 Will there be a separation?
06:44 When he comes back,
06:45 he will himself talk about it.
06:47 I will say…
06:48 At the press conference?
06:49 It will be earlier.
06:50 What he said while leaving,
06:52 he said two important things,
06:56 in my opinion,
06:57 in the public domain.
06:58 When a generational transition is coming,
07:01 then it is better to separate
07:03 from the old people.
07:05 I think…
07:06 So, this is the danger.
07:07 I don't know.
07:08 I mean…
07:09 Can he also say this to you?
07:10 "Free election, son, don't go to the party."
07:12 I mean…
07:13 I will wait for him to come back
07:15 and then talk to him.
07:16 And then after that,
07:17 it will be fun to talk.
07:18 Let's see what happens.
07:20 I will come this way.
07:21 Mr. Jadhav Lakh,
07:22 where is our politics taking us now?
07:24 We will go to another closed lane.
07:27 We will go to another lane
07:29 after which another series
07:31 of protests,
07:32 of gatherings will start.
07:33 "We don't accept the election."
07:34 There has been a riot.
07:35 The People's Party has started
07:36 playing light music.
07:38 Mr. Tariq-e-Insaaf is obviously
07:39 not getting a chance to speak.
07:40 When he comes out,
07:41 he will speak and say,
07:42 "We were not allowed to fight the election.
07:43 We were an acceptable,
07:44 united community."
07:45 The polls were saying this.
07:46 Is our politics going towards
07:47 solving the problems
07:48 or is it going towards
07:49 increasing the problems?
07:51 In the name of God, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
07:57 Mr. Kashif,
07:58 in the current situation,
07:59 we are in a closed lane.
08:01 And there is light at the end of the tunnel.
08:05 I can't see any light
08:07 at the end of the tunnel.
08:09 Because there is so much polarization.
08:11 And everyone is struggling
08:13 for their own benefit.
08:16 No one is struggling for Pakistan.
08:19 And just saying sorry
08:21 doesn't make anyone forgiven.
08:23 You have to say sorry from your heart.
08:25 And you have to move forward
08:27 with a big heart.
08:29 And you have to accept the ground realities.
08:32 In the current situation,
08:34 first of all,
08:35 it's been 35 years
08:37 that I have been in politics.
08:39 I have fought many elections.
08:40 I have seen many things in Pakistan.
08:42 I have seen the IJI being formed.
08:44 I have seen many things.
08:47 I have also been in martial law.
08:48 I have been in other fields.
08:49 When you saw PDM,
08:50 did you see anything like IJI?
08:52 When you saw PDM.
08:55 I didn't see anything like PDM.
08:58 In IJI,
08:59 there was a view,
09:01 there were writers' groups.
09:03 In the politics of that time,
09:06 in the politics of 80s and 90s,
09:08 people used to follow a view.
09:10 Whether it was good or bad,
09:12 I don't talk about it.
09:13 Now that view is over
09:15 in Pakistan's politics.
09:16 Now there are only interests.
09:17 Now you don't see
09:18 with whom you are sitting.
09:20 You don't see who sits.
09:22 You see what he was saying to me till yesterday,
09:24 and how he is embracing me today.
09:27 Till yesterday, he was dragging me on the streets.
09:29 He was licking my stomach.
09:31 Today he is embracing me.
09:32 He is sitting with me.
09:33 At that time,
09:34 they don't understand this
09:36 because everyone's interests are the same.
09:39 And later,
09:41 when they move away
09:44 or when the matter is over,
09:46 they start holding each other's neck.
09:49 And I regret this.
09:51 That we should talk
09:53 when a person is in power
09:57 or is sitting on his position.
09:59 Today, those groups,
10:01 I know,
10:03 I said some things
10:05 which became a trend.
10:08 At that time,
10:09 you meet secretly
10:10 and hold each other's feet.
10:12 You talked about meeting in the degree.
10:14 You are talking about the degree.
10:17 And today, you are holding each other's feet.
10:19 And today, you are trying to hold each other's neck.
10:21 So, this is...
10:23 He left his neck, sir.
10:25 This is politics.
10:26 Excuse me, he left his neck too.
10:28 What did you say?
10:29 He left his neck.
10:30 He is stuck.
10:31 Yes, he left it now
10:33 because now the message has reached him
10:35 that either hold each other's neck
10:37 or come to Pakistan.
10:38 So, one thing can be done at a time.
10:40 So, now to come back,
10:42 they are ready to spread all kinds of papads.
10:44 But later we will know
10:46 how the matters go ahead.
10:48 And one more thing I will tell you.
10:51 If this is with a push
10:52 or forcefully elections.
10:54 First thing,
10:55 our situation is that
10:57 you see,
10:58 from economy
11:00 and from law and order
11:02 and from earthquake
11:04 and from flood and everything.
11:06 It feels bad to say
11:08 that we have given everything to the army.
11:11 So, what is the need of politicians?
11:13 These people have started asking.
11:15 What is the need of you
11:16 when they have to do all the work.
11:18 They have to control the dollar.
11:20 They have to bring money from outside.
11:22 And not from today,
11:23 when they had a government of 16 months,
11:25 no one used to ask them then.
11:27 At that time,
11:28 either General Bajwa had to intervene
11:30 and now General Asim Munir
11:31 has to intervene.
11:33 So, in this situation,
11:35 if elections happen,
11:36 I don't think
11:37 I am seeing the country going somewhere.
11:39 I am seeing that
11:41 the way these governments are trying to...
11:44 Sir, do you mean that
11:45 elections should not happen
11:46 or elections should not happen
11:47 in such an environment?
11:49 Elections should definitely happen.
11:52 I am not saying that elections should not happen.
11:54 Democracy should definitely happen.
11:55 But there should be a charter.
11:57 There should be a charter of Pakistan.
11:59 Some lines should be drawn.
12:01 There should be a map
12:02 on which we can sit and say,
12:04 that now we have to go in this way.
12:06 Now, it is not possible
12:07 that one group
12:09 will be put in a charter
12:11 and the other group will be put in a charter.
12:14 People will not accept this.
12:16 Sir, political parties are accepting this.
12:18 The real problem is that
12:19 when our country's political parties
12:21 put up a wall,
12:22 that our opponent will close it,
12:24 they will be given a chaddi,
12:25 they will be punished,
12:26 they will be jailed.
12:28 So, they are happy with this.
12:30 In fact, they have got a small plus.
12:35 In the case of Mian Sahib,
12:37 there was an arrest
12:38 and some seats were broken.
12:40 Here, they are saying,
12:41 that we should not let anyone fight elections.
12:43 People disappear in Pakistan.
12:45 Your friend Sheikh Rashid Sahib has also disappeared.
12:47 I do not comment on that
12:50 because those cases are in courts.
12:52 They are not in closed courts, sir,
12:53 nor in jails.
12:55 I am saying that.
12:58 But I will give you a prediction
13:01 that in the current situation,
13:03 whichever party comes,
13:04 they cannot run the country.
13:06 I do not know if a new party comes,
13:09 or an old party comes.
13:11 We have small parties.
13:12 We are also trying to make an alliance.
13:14 We have met some people.
13:16 But my prediction is that
13:18 in this current situation,
13:20 which is the ground reality,
13:22 if elections are held in this,
13:23 then not one election will be held,
13:25 but two elections will be held.
13:26 The first election will not be successful,
13:28 and then you will have to hold a second election.
13:31 Like in 1977,
13:33 when the elections were held,
13:35 and no one came out in the morning,
13:38 and then we saw that
13:40 the Marshalls were elected.
13:42 Interesting comparison with 1977.
13:46 You think that this is a matter of closed streets.
13:49 He says that it is in a closed street.
13:51 The street is closed,
13:52 how can it not be closed?
13:54 In this,
13:56 people are not understanding
13:58 that the politicians are again apologizing.
14:00 Oh sorry, we made a mistake.
14:02 Oh sorry, we made this mistake.
14:04 After three years,
14:05 we are sitting here and saying
14:06 that we made a mistake.
14:08 We shouldn't have done this.
14:09 How long will we keep apologizing
14:10 and then keep repeating our mistakes?
14:12 Kashif bhai,
14:13 Ijaz bhai talked about the Charter of Pakistan.
14:18 I think the Charter of Pakistan
14:20 is already there in the form of a constitution.
14:23 When we talk about
14:25 deciding the rules of the game,
14:28 what to do and what not to do,
14:30 it is already written in the constitution.
14:32 The decision is not to make a charter,
14:34 the decision is to act on it.
14:36 I don't want to act on it.
14:37 He says that it is a book,
14:38 keep it aside.
14:40 What does it say?
14:41 It doesn't matter.
14:42 Come, we will tell you what to do.
14:43 And secondly,
14:44 the result of not acting on it is that
14:47 a few days ago,
14:48 a report of the World Bank came out,
14:50 which is also mentioned in the newspapers.
14:54 1.25 crore Pakistanis have fallen below the poverty line in the last year.
14:58 At present, 9 crore Pakistanis are below the poverty line.
15:01 9 crore Pakistanis.
15:04 Compared to India and Bangladesh,
15:06 we used to imagine that
15:08 India has a lot of poverty.
15:11 Bangladesh has a lot of poverty.
15:13 Today, compared to Pakistan,
15:14 they have less poverty.
15:16 And the scary thing,
15:18 these are scary details.
15:20 After that,
15:21 I didn't like it,
15:23 it was even more scary.
15:25 Now, it is being suggested that
15:27 the salary class below 50,000,
15:29 tax it.
15:31 Cut the money before its salary.
15:33 Because of not acting on it,
15:36 we have brought this country to this place,
15:39 to this state,
15:40 where nothing is working.
15:42 And if we want to run this country for 25 crore Pakistanis,
15:45 then for that,
15:46 we will have to put our ego aside.
15:48 You mentioned this in the beginning,
15:53 today, when Mian Nawaz Sharif is coming back to the country,
15:56 the institutions have been printed,
15:59 the news is common,
16:01 that the establishment is getting on its shoulders and wants to come back to power.
16:06 So where has the politics of giving respect to the vote gone?
16:08 And if this is what we have to do,
16:10 if this is what we have to do,
16:12 then what is the purpose of politics?
16:13 There is no importance of war.
16:15 But the point is, the country is not working.
16:17 It will be sorry again in 4-5 years.
16:19 Kashif, we will not be at the stage where,
16:21 God forbid, we are in a position to sit and say sorry,
16:26 that it was wrong 4 years ago.
16:28 London is there.
16:30 People of this country will suffer.
16:32 The point is, we all have to suffer.
16:34 We all have to suffer.
16:35 You don't have any foreign nationality,
16:37 I don't have it either.
16:38 You won't have permission either.
16:40 We will be second class citizens in this world.
16:44 Where we have brought this country,
16:47 now we will have to discuss all kinds of things.
16:50 We will have to discuss everyone's role.
16:52 And we will have to admit the mistakes we have made.
16:55 We won't.
16:56 Qazi Faiz Issa Sahib has started well.
16:58 Chief Justice has started well.
17:00 He accepted the mistakes of his institution on the first day.
17:03 He said that Bhutto's court murder was wrong.
17:05 He said that the dictators we had stamped were wrong.
17:10 His Chief Justice, like he did in Rekodek,
17:14 the judicial activism, he said it was wrong.
17:17 The process of rectification will start when you accept your mistakes.
17:21 He has taken a good step on behalf of his institution.
17:24 We should carry this spirit forward,
17:26 we should accept our mistakes.
17:28 Sir, we got the election done on the 9th.
17:30 The problem is that, again, the easier thing to do is,
17:32 we did that wrong, but then we have to make difficult decisions.
17:35 In the last 8-10 months, these difficult decisions have been brought to the table.
17:39 When we said that we won't give the securities, we won't give the money,
17:42 someone was standing and making decisions.
17:44 What is the need to make decisions?
17:45 There is a need to make just one decision.
17:46 It is a decision to get the election done.
17:48 Exactly.
17:49 What do they say about the election?
17:50 That it is the biggest way to end the fights of people,
17:54 if they are free and fair.
17:55 If they were not free and fair, then the fight would have increased.
17:58 So, are they free and fair right now?
17:59 First answer a question.
18:00 No, not yet.
18:01 So, who intervened?
18:02 Listen to me, what is that wall that stands between bad and good?
18:07 We want this.
18:08 Stand up and say that human rights are being violated,
18:11 free and fair elections are not being held,
18:13 then intervene at that time.
18:15 Then after 10 years, no one will apologize that
18:17 we made a mistake 10 years ago, forgive us.
18:19 Exactly.
18:20 Look, there are 4 politicians, even if they are the head of a small community,
18:24 Sheikh Rashid is the head of a community, he is a missing person.
18:26 Sadaqat Abbasi is a missing person.
18:28 Daar is a missing person.
18:30 Farooq Habib is a missing person.
18:31 Not anymore.
18:32 He is a non-missing person in a TV interview.
18:34 Okay, it is a very good thing if he is a non-missing person.
18:37 So, this precedent that is being set,
18:39 if we have one Charter of Pakistan,
18:43 we cannot be left with this.
18:45 We have done all the experiments in this country,
18:48 despite those experiments, this country could not reach anywhere.
18:52 Now, if there is only one experiment left to be done in this country,
18:55 that is free and fair elections.
18:56 Trust the people, let them decide.
18:58 Why don't we learn?
18:59 Mr. Jal, can I take a break?
19:01 The real question is that everyone knows what the problem is.
19:05 Everyone knows what the problem is since 70 years.
19:07 Everyone has been telling since 70 years that this is the problem.
19:11 Leave the interference, leave it to the people, let the people decide.
19:15 Let them decide freely.
19:17 Only then this country can be fine.
19:19 Everyone knows.
19:21 But why don't we learn?
19:23 What is the real problem?
19:24 Every time someone comes, they think that I can do it better,
19:27 I will do it differently.
19:28 Sir, after the break, his answer will be,
19:30 why is it that we keep making the same mistakes?
19:33 We keep making the same mistakes.
19:34 Mushahid sir sits here and says,
19:35 and this is one of his mantras,
19:37 that make new mistakes, leave the old mistakes, make new mistakes.
19:40 We don't make new mistakes.
19:42 We repeat the same old mistakes again and again,
19:45 and then we have to say sorry to those old mistakes.
19:48 Till when?
19:49 Let's take a break.
19:50 Welcome back, viewers.
19:55 With us is Mustafa Nawaz Koker.
19:57 Ijaz-ul-Haq is also present.
19:59 Ijaz-ul-Haq, the thing that you said,
20:01 you said, "Bandh Gali", we are talking about
20:03 a new social contract,
20:06 Pakistan, Charter for Pakistan.
20:08 This is right, if you make another Charter for Pakistan,
20:11 make two more,
20:13 it will be in the same green form,
20:15 which will tell you how to run this country.
20:19 How do you run this country?
20:22 If you don't follow it,
20:24 if you make two, it doesn't matter.
20:26 Like you are talking about two elections,
20:27 if you make two new ones, it doesn't matter.
20:29 So, how will you follow it?
20:31 The real question is this,
20:32 because the people who have to follow it,
20:34 like I was talking about the Supreme Court,
20:36 it was a great start.
20:39 I said yesterday that I saw the proceedings for two days.
20:41 I was actually very excited watching these proceedings,
20:45 that we are seeing our court live,
20:47 seeing the proceedings live,
20:48 it is visible what they are trying to do.
20:50 And it is a very good thing that we have talked about the past.
20:54 We are distancing ourselves from the past,
20:57 this is not the job of the court.
20:59 But we have to fix the problems that are present.
21:02 Or we will stand here and apologize after 10 years,
21:05 that we did something wrong.
21:07 The first thing is that this is a very good thing.
21:13 I was very happy to see that the new Chief Justice has come,
21:18 he has adopted a new style of showing live programs.
21:22 But 20 lakh cases are pending.
21:25 More than 20 lakh cases are pending.
21:28 He has not come up with a new method
21:32 that can be seen quickly,
21:35 justice at your doorstep.
21:37 Then we will know how the cases are handled.
21:41 Our previous Chief Justice,
21:44 Mr. Iftikhar Chaudhary,
21:46 he was very interested to know if the curtains are running or not.
21:49 So for that, all the commentary that was in the Supreme Court,
21:53 was about how the curtains are running.
21:56 So now we will sit in front of the TV to watch the live program.
22:00 But the thing is that justice,
22:04 you don't have to show it.
22:07 The judgments speak for themselves.
22:09 So we need that thing,
22:11 that there are many big trials coming up,
22:13 there are many cases for the current Chief Justice,
22:16 there are 90-day elections,
22:18 there are other cases,
22:20 in which we will know what direction is being taken.
22:26 So the thing that you have said,
22:29 especially,
22:31 that what is the reason,
22:32 I am a Charter, we have the law,
22:35 but it is right that everyone will sit and see
22:38 how to run the country,
22:40 how to move the country forward,
22:42 what are our limits,
22:44 many people are saying that
22:46 close this canal,
22:49 and all the issues will be solved.
22:51 I think that accountability should be across the board,
22:55 and should be at the level of equality for everyone.
22:58 We don't want to fix it,
23:01 we think closing it is the solution.
23:03 We don't want to fix it.
23:04 We don't want to fix it.
23:05 There is no need to fix it,
23:06 the institutions are working properly.
23:08 I want to give you a small example.
23:12 I want to give you an example,
23:14 that you take NRO, which happened in 2008.
23:16 The canal was void.
23:18 What did we do after that?
23:19 We sold all the goods.
23:21 I am saying this with apologies.
23:23 We did all the other things.
23:25 No one said anything.
23:27 The case of Evan Fields in Panama,
23:29 it is still there,
23:31 there is no money trail,
23:32 no answer.
23:34 You go from the country for a month,
23:37 you are in jail for 4 years,
23:39 you are given a diplomatic passport,
23:42 and you are called back with great pride.
23:44 So how will you move this country forward?
23:47 I will tell you that in our country,
23:49 the potential is more than Bangladesh,
23:51 more than India,
23:53 by the grace of Allah.
23:54 We have a lot of resources,
23:56 but we don't have commitment,
23:58 we don't have leadership.
23:59 I am saying this with apologies.
24:01 And all our leadership,
24:03 the day I,
24:05 you go ahead.
24:07 Tell us, tell us,
24:08 complete all the leadership,
24:10 then I will ask the next question to Mr. Muswa.
24:12 I am saying that leadership could not be created,
24:14 that the pots in which they are born and raised,
24:17 they want to go back to those pots,
24:19 I mean, they grow up,
24:21 when the trees cut its branches,
24:23 and put it in the pot.
24:25 They come back and come back.
24:27 The pot from which they have come out,
24:30 they want to go back to that pot.
24:32 So until they come out of the pots and come into the public,
24:35 until this matter is not right.
24:37 Sir, we are talking about free and fair elections,
24:40 you are all saying that until there is a free and fair election,
24:43 the country will not move forward.
24:45 So we don't just have to have elections in 90 days.
24:47 Now, obviously,
24:49 the court is here,
24:51 and not just elections.
24:55 Look,
24:56 Elections, free and fair,
24:58 even though they are clean and transparent,
25:00 that today you are seeing clean and transparent elections in this country.
25:04 Very quickly,
25:05 Mr. Ijaz said that,
25:07 those who want to go back to the pot,
25:09 talk about nursery too.
25:11 The new pots keep coming out of the nursery.
25:14 And that nursery is not ready to move forward,
25:18 that there is a point of view in this country,
25:21 or political parties,
25:22 or a vibrant environment.
25:23 Look at the world, where it has reached.
25:25 Where are we standing?
25:26 The mistakes we have been making for 75 years,
25:29 no one has come out of them.
25:31 We are in a bad place.
25:33 But you have to gang up, you know that.
25:35 Now look,
25:36 Everybody has to gang up.
25:38 If you want to come out of this nursery,
25:40 you have to do the work.
25:42 Those who want to benefit from those nurseries,
25:47 they will keep doing it.
25:49 They will always do it.
25:50 Everybody is doing it.
25:51 Who is not doing it?
25:52 I am saying that,
25:53 the foundation of this has been destroyed.
25:57 Pakistan cannot function as a security state.
26:01 You have to change the outlook of your state,
26:04 the way you are.
26:06 But,
26:07 I always agree with you.
26:11 And this is not a new thing.
26:13 We always agree that,
26:15 until we change this,
26:17 we will not make it a welfare state.
26:19 This country cannot function.
26:21 But this is a topic that is discussed every year,
26:23 every 6 months,
26:24 every 2 years.
26:25 Why?
26:26 I will tell you why.
26:27 Because,
26:28 I said,
26:29 until you all don't gang up,
26:31 who will fix this?
26:33 You will get a chance,
26:35 you will go there and sit,
26:36 I will get a chance,
26:37 I will go there.
26:38 You talk about Nawaz Sharif,
26:40 he got a chance to give respect to the vote,
26:42 to save the lives of those poor people in this country,
26:45 from their political role.
26:47 Political role.
26:48 Again I am repeating,
26:49 political role.
26:50 When he got a chance,
26:51 People's Party and Noon,
26:53 both went and played a game with them.
26:55 Today, People's Party is apologizing,
26:57 Noon will apologize after 3 years,
26:59 and say that we made a mistake again.
27:01 How long will these mistakes continue?
27:03 We are not against the army,
27:05 We are against the political role.
27:07 And the political role that we have been playing,
27:12 because of that,
27:13 so much corruption has been created in the society,
27:16 your entire politics has been ruined,
27:19 if you want to rescue the country,
27:21 today you have made the SAFC,
27:23 SAFC,
27:24 undoubtedly you must have made it with a good intention,
27:26 but you didn't have to make it if the country was functioning.
27:29 Today you are roaming around the world,
27:31 begging people to invest in Pakistan,
27:34 and the country doesn't function like this.
27:37 The Arab sheikhs that we have been hoping for,
27:41 Ya Sheikh Aynur B. Vaikh,
27:42 he is also a sheikh,
27:43 he doesn't even look at them.
27:45 Now there are Oxford, Cambridge,
27:47 Harvard sheikhs,
27:48 all their children are there,
27:50 the brotherhood thing is over.
27:52 States are changing their outlook,
27:54 our outlook,
27:55 our constitution is there,
27:56 which gives us a democratic outlook.
27:58 It has human rights,
28:00 which should be our collective redline.
28:03 8 to 28,
28:04 there are 250 sheikhs in the constitution,
28:06 let those 250 sheikhs be on the side,
28:08 their heart is the constitution,
28:10 their soul is 8 to 28,
28:12 that should be our collective redline,
28:14 and all our issues are solved in that,
28:16 if we make that our redline.
28:18 And if the custodians become the Supreme Court,
28:20 and become properly,
28:21 that the rights of those 8 to 28,
28:23 should always stand in their defence,
28:25 then there will be corruption in this country.
28:27 Today these hatreds,
28:29 and divisions in beliefs,
28:31 and the attempts to hold on to each other,
28:33 and hold on to each other's ties,
28:35 why should we hold on to them?
28:37 We should hold on to them because
28:39 there is no peace on their side,
28:41 the Supreme Court is not playing its role.
28:43 So like you were saying,
28:45 that the time has come for them to
28:47 get rid of their old mistakes,
28:49 to run this country in a better way,
28:51 it's fine, you will make mistakes,
28:53 but you have to run it.
28:55 Make honest mistakes.
28:57 And we have another fundamental problem,
28:59 that we don't do the work,
29:01 that we have been given the responsibility to do.
29:03 We want to make the country better.
29:05 If you want to make the country better,
29:07 then you should first do your work,
29:09 and the country will be better.
29:11 Mr. Ijaz-ul-Haq,
29:13 have there ever been free and fair elections
29:15 in this country,
29:17 or will there be in the near future?
29:19 Till now,
29:21 there has never been a free and fair election,
29:23 but there will be in the near future.
29:25 Till now,
29:27 there has never been a free and fair election,
29:29 if you look at it in a right way.
29:31 I say that it should not be 100% free and fair,
29:33 but at least there should be
29:35 this much transparency,
29:37 so that the people who are fighting the elections,
29:39 at least they should realise that we are fighting elections.
29:41 This is the first thing.
29:43 The second thing is,
29:45 my brother did the same thing.
29:47 Where is the credibility of your politicians,
29:49 your leadership?
29:51 Tell me,
29:53 where is the credibility?
29:55 Tell me,
29:57 that the same things that are happening in Sindh for 90 days,
29:59 where were they at that time,
30:01 when there were no elections in Punjab,
30:03 and there were no KPKs.
30:05 They were sitting in the government,
30:07 they were taking private jets,
30:09 I don't know how many hundreds of trips
30:11 they did to foreign countries,
30:13 at that time no one thought about it.
30:15 Now, because they can see in Sindh,
30:17 that if there is a little accountability,
30:19 they have put 2-4 people only on ECL,
30:21 and have caught 1-2 people,
30:23 and have come out of 1-2 places.
30:25 Now, they have come out of unity,
30:27 that if this happens,
30:29 then our work will be ruined.
30:31 Now they have started remembering 90 days.
30:33 At that time,
30:35 they were making fun of 90 days.
30:37 They were making fun of the Supreme Court,
30:39 and they were making fun of the Parliament.
30:41 No one was ready for this.
30:43 Today, everyone is ready.
30:45 Whoever sees the benefit of their own,
30:47 everyone is ready for that.
30:49 Whoever sees the benefit of their own,
30:51 everyone is ready to compromise.
30:53 So, they made such a FC,
30:55 and when they made it,
30:57 today look at Donald,
30:59 that is, Mr. Saghdar,
31:01 who is called Rustu,
31:03 he was called a wizard,
31:05 from where he took the money,
31:07 and where he had sent it.
31:09 So, how did he come back today?
31:11 Tell me, was this a political gimmick,
31:13 or was it just a little
31:15 administrative correction,
31:17 because of which these matters
31:19 have started to improve,
31:21 or the stock market has started to improve,
31:23 or other matters,
31:25 how did the dollar come to 285 today?
31:27 Sir, to seal the dollar,
31:29 sorry, I am sorry,
31:31 not to seal the dollar,
31:33 but to seal the border.
31:35 Why did you not seal the border,
31:37 you know it.
31:39 No, that is the same thing,
31:41 why did you not seal the border at that time?
31:43 Why was smuggling going on at that time?
31:45 Next time I will seal the border myself.
31:47 You will have to see it.
31:49 Next time I will seal the border myself.
31:51 Don't worry.
31:53 Why not?
31:55 If everything else,
31:57 I will do that also.
31:59 Mr. Jha, I want to apologize for the cutoff,
32:01 but fundamentally,
32:03 the thing that needs to be corrected,
32:05 that is the establishment,
32:07 that is the role in our politics.
32:09 Look, two countries started a joint journey,
32:11 that country is sitting in your neighbourhood,
32:13 where did it reach today,
32:15 and where are we standing?
32:17 We are standing because we did not let the democracy flourish,
32:19 we did not let the system work.
32:21 They did not come down from Mars,
32:23 people like us,
32:25 where did they take their country from?
32:27 So we never trusted the people here,
32:29 the politicians here.
32:31 We always painted them as corrupt,
32:33 since the time of Ayub Khan.
32:35 If we had to call Fatima Jinnah,
32:37 the sister of the founder of Pakistan,
32:39 we had to abdicate her to the politicians
32:41 who were part of the movement of Pakistan,
32:43 who had people like Hussain Shaheed Surwardi,
32:45 we have put the wrong foundation,
32:47 and we are still stubborn.
32:49 We have inherited the same thought,
32:51 that these politicians cannot do anything.
32:53 I can tell you with certainty,
32:55 that the way the politicians in other countries
32:57 have taken those countries forward,
32:59 there is a potential in the politicians of Pakistan.
33:01 But the accountability that you were talking about,
33:03 when did that accountability get corrected in Pakistan?
33:05 Did it ever get across the board?
33:07 It never got across the board.
33:09 The Supreme Court itself says that
33:11 the politicians have been used to
33:13 change the political parties.
33:15 So when we have created our system
33:17 in which we have set a target,
33:19 that the politicians are incompetent,
33:21 that the politicians are incompetent,
33:23 that we have mistakes,
33:25 but the same mistakes are present
33:27 in the politicians of the world.
33:29 So when we don't discuss that role,
33:31 don't let it work,
33:33 then how do you expect the result to be different?
33:35 In 75 years, the results will be different.
33:37 So you don't have to worry about your party.
33:39 I can tell you that.
33:41 You know what I mean.
33:43 It's a joke.
33:45 I am just saying that
33:47 you should compare your politicians
33:49 with their politicians.
33:51 Did any of their politicians
33:53 get a lot of money?
33:55 Sir, they had a scandal of 30 crores.
33:57 Do you remember Lal Umar Saad?
33:59 They had a scandal of 65,000 Arab Rupees.
34:01 They had a check and balances scandal.
34:03 They had a Rafael scandal.
34:05 Sir, it happens.
34:07 Let's be honest.
34:09 It's a third world scandal.
34:11 They get caught.
34:13 They get punished.
34:15 There is no one to question them.
34:17 Sir, we can save them.
34:19 We can send them abroad.
34:21 We can make a deal.
34:23 They say that if they go to a particular Jamaat,
34:25 they won't be questioned.
34:27 They say that if they go to a particular Jamaat,
34:29 they won't be questioned.
34:31 Sir, how do you know about the Diggi's?
34:33 This is our weakness.
34:35 If they say that if they go to a particular Jamaat,
34:37 we will go quietly,
34:39 then that will happen.
34:41 Sir, you have started an interesting debate.
34:43 Is it strong or are we weak?
34:45 The politicians of our country.
34:47 The point is that the country is not working.
34:49 Now, we believe that...
34:51 If the country was working,
34:53 we would have said that it's fine.
34:55 There are a few examples in front of you.
34:57 I recently read a book.
34:59 There are a few examples.
35:01 Singapore is in front of you.
35:03 UAE is in front of you.
35:05 Dubai, Qatar are in front of you.
35:07 Democracy is not there.
35:09 The country is working.
35:11 If we have to run the country
35:13 on the basis of democracy,
35:15 then let it work.
35:17 The same system has delivered
35:19 to other countries.
35:21 Mr. Trijal,
35:23 how nations fail.
35:25 Read it.
35:27 I am reading how to stand up to dictatorship.
35:29 It's not a comparison.
35:31 Sir, one second.
35:33 You are reading the wrong book.
35:35 For God's sake.
35:37 Tomorrow, we will have a Muslim-Kokiri press conference.
35:39 Yes, Mr. Trijal.
35:41 I am saying that Singapore and UAE
35:45 which is with Pakistan,
35:47 we have 25-26 crore people.
35:49 We have our own resources.
35:51 Our countries have their own problems.
35:53 These are small countries.
35:55 They have so many resources.
35:57 I am not saying this.
35:59 They have developed only because of one thing.
36:01 That is law and order.
36:03 It is not here.
36:05 What has happened in our country is
36:07 that vested interest has destroyed us.
36:09 What is the reason for PIA?
36:11 You can go and see.
36:13 Why not PIA?
36:15 This is the PIA which I
36:17 was instrumental in
36:19 establishing Emirates Airlines.
36:21 I took two PIA planes there.
36:23 The E-K
36:25 on their ticket
36:27 is still written Emirates Karachi.
36:29 Where did they go
36:31 with two PIA planes?
36:33 Our PIA came with
36:35 a hundred-odd planes
36:37 and today it is on 16 planes.
36:39 I think we have 16 planes.
36:41 We have destroyed everything.
36:43 We have destroyed everything.
36:45 We will bring happiness
36:47 to the people
36:49 who are coming
36:51 as messiahs.
36:53 The economy
36:55 can be restored.
36:57 I will take your questions
36:59 after you.
37:01 I am saying that
37:03 you cannot
37:05 bring this matter
37:07 back to the same position
37:09 that we are in.
37:11 Until you fix these problems,
37:13 until you get out of these problems,
37:15 until you implement
37:17 the charter
37:19 that they have,
37:21 and make them all sit,
37:23 those who do not want to say sorry,
37:25 return their wealth
37:27 along with it.
37:29 Those who have done wrong,
37:31 repent and rectify it.
37:33 Then this country can run.
37:35 If you bring someone and make them sit,
37:37 and he does the same thing
37:39 that he did earlier,
37:41 then we will go backwards
37:43 instead of forward.
37:45 Until these matters are resolved,
37:47 and you know the ground reality,
37:49 and even Mustafa bhai knows,
37:51 tell him to take a vote today,
37:53 go to his Jalsa and see
37:55 if he is going to win.
37:57 If he is going to come to Jalsa
37:59 with a motorcycle,
38:01 he will get a motorcycle.
38:03 I will also bring a motorcycle.
38:05 These things,
38:07 he does not know the ground reality.
38:09 He is far behind.
38:11 The nation has gone far ahead.
38:13 When there will be
38:15 free and fair elections,
38:17 then they will know
38:19 where they are standing.
38:21 I think such a bad defeat,
38:23 all these 16 months,
38:25 those who have brought destruction to this country,
38:27 they will know how much they are selling.
38:29 I am telling the truth.
38:31 Sir, if elections are so bad,
38:33 they will win.
38:35 But do not call it such a bad defeat.
38:37 I think it will be such a bad victory
38:39 that it will not be able to run much.
38:41 It should not be that the turnout
38:43 of the elections is so low
38:45 that there is no credibility
38:47 of the election or anyone is ready to accept it.
38:49 But we keep arguing
38:51 about politicians versus establishment.
38:53 Mr. Nawaz Sharif knows everything.
38:55 This happened to him in 2018.
38:57 In 2017.
38:59 He himself says that he was removed.
39:01 I was removed along with him.
39:03 These were all the parts.
39:05 Today, when he has got the opportunity,
39:07 he is doing the same thing
39:09 that happened against him.
39:11 Why?
39:13 Tell me the mindset of a politician.
39:15 What is the mindset of a politician
39:17 that those mistakes are repeated?
39:19 He wants to get power.
39:21 Power politics.
39:23 Nobody wants to correct the seat.
39:25 The destruction that has been created,
39:27 Kashib bhai,
39:29 if they had got the elections
39:31 instead of regime change on 9th April,
39:33 I think the situation would have been
39:35 better.
39:37 There would have been a government
39:39 of the Moon League today.
39:41 We need to first
39:43 tell the truth
39:45 that we have to go through
39:47 a painful process
39:49 to correct the country.
39:51 Now the country cannot be corrected.
39:53 Everyone knows that the difficult decision
39:55 has come.
39:57 So you are saying that power politics
39:59 is the only thing that matters
40:01 to the politicians of this country.
40:03 You need to remove
40:05 the political uncertainty
40:07 in the country.
40:09 If the elections
40:11 are not fair,
40:13 the uncertainty will be eliminated.
40:15 I think that Tehreek-e-Insaf
40:17 has no feasible formula.
40:19 Nobody has it.
40:21 If Tehreek-e-Insaf gets a vote today,
40:23 they will get a vote
40:25 on the statement of oppression.
40:27 They will get a vote because people
40:29 are more afraid of others.
40:31 This is the reason for their acceptance.
40:33 They have no program.
40:35 Even today, we do not talk about
40:37 merit.
40:39 They talked about merit.
40:41 They gave a gift to Mr. Buzdar and Mr. Mehmood Khan.
40:43 They said that they could not do anything.
40:45 The issue should be
40:47 how much you delivered on your program.
40:49 The problem with us is that
40:51 you remove people before time.
40:53 They get a chance to be oppressed.
40:55 Then all politics will be...
40:57 Exactly.
40:59 You get free and fair elections.
41:01 And then a stable government
41:03 whatever comes as a result.
41:05 If we put Pakistan
41:07 on a straight path,
41:09 if we do not do it,
41:11 our egos are more important.
41:13 I see more danger and more fight.
41:15 Mr. Ijaz mentioned
41:17 two elections.
41:19 May God forgive me.
41:21 We will not be able to reach the second election.
41:23 Who will believe the results?
41:25 The government will not be formed.
41:27 Mr. Ijaz, quickly.
41:29 Our political elite does not learn.
41:31 They do not want to learn.
41:33 They have decided
41:35 that we cannot win this fight.
41:37 So, it is better to do power politics
41:39 and form a government.
41:41 Mr. Kashyap,
41:45 I have been watching
41:47 the events of
41:49 1988-93-96
41:51 and 99.
41:53 Then the elections of 2002
41:55 and then NRO.
41:57 This is my experience
41:59 of 35 years.
42:01 This is the vicious circle
42:03 in which we are moving.
42:05 Earlier there were two groups,
42:07 now there are three.
42:09 Everyone tries to
42:11 win the second election.
42:13 I told you that they have been beaten