Crown Court - The Green House Girls (1978) - video Dailymotion

Jezza

Stella Martin-James (Cheryl Campbell), the warden for the Green House Probation hostel for girls, is accused of stealing £100 in cash from one of the girls living in the hostel.  Ian Marter, prosecuting counsel, will be known to "Doctor Who" fans as companion Harry Sullivan to Tom Baker's Doctor. Roger Brierley (Roy White) would also to go on to appear in Doctor Who opposite Colin Baker in The Trial of a Timelord". Cheryl Campbell is perhaps best known for her appearance in Dennis Potter's "Pennies from Heaven" and more recently in the comedy "Peep Show". Pauline Quirke (Patsy Donovan) will go on to find fame in "Birds of a Feather".

Transcript

00:00:00The

00:00:14case you're about to see is a fictional one, but the procedure is legally accurate.

00:00:19The characters are played by actors, but the jury is selected from members of the public.

00:00:23Are you Stella Martin James? I am, yes.

00:00:32Stella Martin James, you stand indicted on two counts. On the first count, you are charged with theft.

00:00:41Fancy why you can't, Mia. Well, you can't. Fancy why not, because they say not.

00:00:49Well, we've just got to sit here for hours and hours till our names are called.

00:00:52Right. Well, I'm going to have a listen. I can't stop you doing that.

00:00:56Well, Patsy, sit down.

00:00:59Hello, Thomas. Hey, where's the toilet?

00:01:03Mary.

00:01:08May it please, Your Honour, in this case I appear for the prosecution,

00:01:11and my learned friend, Miss Levine, appears on behalf of the defendant.

00:01:15Yes, Mr. Ingrams, thank you.

00:01:17Now, members of the jury, this is a quite simple and straightforward case,

00:01:21and I venture to suggest to you with some conviction that the evidence which the prosecution will in due course lay before you

00:01:28will be found to lead positively and conclusively in only one possible direction.

00:01:35Now, as you have already heard, the accused is charged with the theft of sums of 50 pounds each from two young ladies.

00:01:41Kindly be quiet or you'll be removed from the courtroom at once.

00:01:47The accused is charged with the theft of sums of 50 pounds from Mary Carr and Patricia Donovan,

00:01:54both of whom you'll be hearing and seeing for yourselves.

00:01:57Now, these two young ladies are both residents of a probation hostel.

00:02:00That is to say, they had themselves already been in trouble with the law.

00:02:04They had been placed on probation for it, and they still are on probation,

00:02:07which is why they currently reside where they do,

00:02:10together with, I believe, ten or so other young ladies who are similarly on probation.

00:02:14Now, the facts of this case are these.

00:02:18Mary Carr and Patricia Donovan each had in their possession, on August the 15th last,

00:02:23the sum of 50 pounds in cash.

00:02:25Now, each will confirm that at some stage during the subsequent 24 hours,

00:02:30this money disappeared.

00:02:32Now, you will hear how the accused, who was at that time the warden in charge of greenhouse probation hostel,

00:02:37was that evening discovered to have the sum of exactly 100 pounds in cash among her private possessions.

00:02:45Now, her explanation as to how she came to have this money underwent, as you will hear,

00:02:50a rapid series of changes,

00:02:52until she finally admitted what she had hitherto denied,

00:02:55which was that the money was indeed the property of Mary Carr and Patricia Donovan,

00:03:00and that she had taken it.

00:03:01In conclusion, you will hear, members of the jury,

00:03:05that the accused was herself at that time in desperate need of cash.

00:03:09Indeed, before the theft had even been discovered,

00:03:11she contacted someone to whom she owed a great deal of money,

00:03:14and said that she now had money,

00:03:16and would be in a position to pay off the debt.

00:03:20Your Honour, I now call the prosecution's first witness.

00:03:23Woman, please, Constable Ball, please.

00:03:24Constable Ball, were you at Greenhouse Probation Hostel

00:03:33at approximately 7 p.m. on the evening of Sunday, the 16th of August last?

00:03:37Yes, that is correct, Your Honour.

00:03:39And did you there see the accused, Mrs. Martin James,

00:03:42and inform her that you were making inquiries

00:03:44as to the whereabouts of the sum of 100 pounds in cash,

00:03:47which had been reported missing by two of the residents of the hostel,

00:03:51Mary Carr and Patricia Donovan?

00:03:53That is correct, yes, Your Honour, yes.

00:03:55Well, will you tell us, please, what was the accused's reaction to that?

00:03:59Your Honour?

00:04:00Yes, yes.

00:04:02Mrs. Martin James said,

00:04:04I haven't the faintest idea what it is you're talking about.

00:04:06And almost immediately then did something occur?

00:04:09It did, Your Honour.

00:04:10We were in Mrs. Martin James' office, and Mary Carr came in.

00:04:13Mary Carr being one of the hostel residents, of course.

00:04:17Yes, now, will you tell His Honour and the members of the jury what happened then?

00:04:19Well, Mary Carr came in and put something,

00:04:23perhaps to say tossed something would be more correct,

00:04:25down onto the blotter on the desk in front of Mrs. Martin James.

00:04:29What was it?

00:04:30A brown manila envelope.

00:04:32Now, Mary Carr said nothing.

00:04:34She simply, well, as you put it, tossed the envelope onto the desk.

00:04:37What happened then?

00:04:38I said, what's that?

00:04:42And what did she reply?

00:04:43To whom?

00:04:44Your Honour?

00:04:45To whom did you say, what's that?

00:04:47To Mary Carr, Your Honour.

00:04:50And what did she reply to that?

00:04:52Ask her.

00:04:54I see.

00:04:55Mary Carr said, ask her, meaning that you should ask Mrs. Martin James.

00:04:59Yes, that is correct.

00:05:00And did you? Did you ask her?

00:05:02No, I just looked at her interrogatively.

00:05:05Yes.

00:05:05Do you mean interrogatively?

00:05:07Your Honour.

00:05:08Hmm.

00:05:10Then what was her response to that?

00:05:13She became very agitated and started to search in her desk for a packet of cigarettes.

00:05:18When she had found them, she lit one with some difficulty

00:05:20because her hands were trembling violently.

00:05:23Go on, please. What happened then?

00:05:25I requested Mrs. Martin James to open the envelope.

00:05:28After some hesitation, she did.

00:05:30And what was inside it?

00:05:32One hundred pounds in one-pound notes.

00:05:34Do you mean that you counted it there and then?

00:05:37No, Your Honour.

00:05:38Perhaps I should have said that the envelope contained a sum of money in one-pound notes,

00:05:42which when later counted at the police station amounted to one hundred pounds.

00:05:47Yes.

00:05:48Will you tell us, please, what was then said?

00:05:50Mrs. Martin James said,

00:05:55Mary, what on earth do you think you're doing? Where has this come from?

00:05:58Yes.

00:06:00Mary Carr said, from your dressing table drawer.

00:06:02Mrs. Martin James then said,

00:06:05Mary, it's mine.

00:06:06You mustn't take things belonging to other people.

00:06:09Mary Carr said,

00:06:10It's not yours, you cow.

00:06:12It's mine and Patsy's.

00:06:13And you sodding well know it.

00:06:15What transpired then?

00:06:17Well, Mrs. Martin James began to cry.

00:06:20She said,

00:06:21Mary, how can you do such a thing?

00:06:23She then regained control of herself,

00:06:25and as she was wiping her eyes, she said,

00:06:27Officer, I know this is a terrible thing to say,

00:06:30but this girl has deliberately planted this money in my dressing table drawer

00:06:33to try and get me into trouble.

00:06:35Did Mary Carr reply anything to that?

00:06:38No.

00:06:39After a pause of some seconds,

00:06:41Mrs. Martin James said,

00:06:43For God's sake, Mary, tell this police officer the truth.

00:06:46She then went on,

00:06:47Officer, she's being deliberately wicked

00:06:49and trying to make things look bad for me.

00:06:51She and Patsy gave me this money to look after for them.

00:06:54She knew it was there all the time,

00:06:56and now she's trying to pretend she didn't,

00:06:58and has found it.

00:06:59So, in the space of, what,

00:07:01three or four minutes at the most,

00:07:03Mrs. Martin James gave you no less than five

00:07:06completely different and totally contradictory statements.

00:07:09Yes, that is quite correct.

00:07:11Thank you, Officer.

00:07:15Officer, what were you doing at Greenhouse at that time

00:07:18on that Sunday evening?

00:07:20I was there in the course of making enquiries.

00:07:23When my learned friend asked you,

00:07:25Did you tell Mrs. Martin James when you saw her

00:07:27you were making enquiries as to the whereabouts of cash

00:07:30reported missing by Mary Carr and Patricia Donovan,

00:07:33you replied,

00:07:34That's correct.

00:07:35That's correct.

00:07:36Yes, that's correct.

00:07:38Which suggests, does it not,

00:07:39that that is why you've gone to the hostel?

00:07:41Well, I don't think I can say what it suggests.

00:07:43Don't fence with me, Officer, please.

00:07:45The way you put it did suggest that.

00:07:46Honour, I...

00:07:47Yes, Miss Levine, I think you should not pursue that.

00:07:50Your Honour.

00:07:51Anyway, Officer,

00:07:52will you tell us what the enquiries were

00:07:54you were in the course of making

00:07:55that took you to the hostel that evening?

00:07:59Your Honour?

00:08:00Hmm?

00:08:00Yes, well, answer the question, Officer,

00:08:03and if I feel there's anything improper

00:08:05in what you're saying, I'll stop you.

00:08:08A phone call had been received at the police station

00:08:10requesting an officer to go to Greenhouse.

00:08:13Saying that one of the residents

00:08:14had climbed up on the roof

00:08:15and was threatening to throw herself off and kill herself.

00:08:17I believe that was the gist of the message.

00:08:19That is correct.

00:08:20And it was made to the police station

00:08:22by Mrs. Martin James.

00:08:24Well, I don't know who made the call, Your Honour.

00:08:25I didn't receive it.

00:08:27Well, perhaps you will accept my word for it, Officer,

00:08:30that it was Mrs. Martin James herself

00:08:32who first requested a police officer to come.

00:08:35Now, how long before you arrived there

00:08:38was that call made?

00:08:41Erm, I believe it had been received

00:08:43about an hour beforehand, or thereabouts.

00:08:45So no one exactly hurried round?

00:08:48Well, we were very busy and on demand that evening,

00:08:50and, well, to be quite honest,

00:08:52it wasn't by any means the first alarm of that kind

00:08:54that we'd received from Greenhouse Hostel.

00:08:56From Mrs. Martin James?

00:08:58I didn't say that, Your Honour.

00:08:59I said from Greenhouse Hostel.

00:09:02And it is a fact, isn't it,

00:09:03that by the time you got there,

00:09:05the suicide threat was over

00:09:07and the girl in question

00:09:08was in the lounge watching television.

00:09:10You were about to depart

00:09:11when Mary Carr approached you in the hall

00:09:14and told you some money she'd had was missing.

00:09:17Yes, that is roughly correct.

00:09:19And you therefore went immediately

00:09:21and started to question Mrs. Martin James about it?

00:09:24No, I did not.

00:09:25I had a long talk with both the girls first

00:09:27to satisfy myself that they were making a genuine complaint.

00:09:31Officer, how well do you know Mrs. Martin James?

00:09:37Well, I'm sure, Miss Levine,

00:09:38the officer doesn't know what you mean by that.

00:09:41And I must confess, neither do I.

00:09:43But do you mean, are they close, personal friends?

00:09:46I mean, is that what you're asking?

00:09:47No, Your Honour.

00:09:49Perhaps I can put it another way.

00:09:51Yes.

00:09:52Officer, Mrs. Martin James was not at that time

00:09:56a complete stranger to you?

00:09:57No, I had been to the hostel on several occasions before

00:10:00and had therefore met her there previously.

00:10:02That is correct.

00:10:03And you also already knew, did you not,

00:10:05Mary Carr and Patricia Donovan?

00:10:07Yes, I did.

00:10:08And if I were to say to you,

00:10:10in any given situation,

00:10:12whom would you tend to believe?

00:10:13Mary Carr...

00:10:14Honour, I really must protest.

00:10:15Miss Levine, I sincerely hope

00:10:16you would not say any such thing.

00:10:19Your Honour,

00:10:20in that case, I have no more questions.

00:10:23Mr. Englands?

00:10:24No further questions, Your Honour.

00:10:25No right.

00:10:25Thank you, officer.

00:10:26Good old bloopers!

00:10:28Silence in court.

00:10:29And so, Mr. Carr,

00:10:46you gave your daughter Mary,

00:10:48just as you were leaving,

00:10:49£100 in £1 notes.

00:10:51Yeah, and a big kiss and a squeeze to go with it.

00:10:54Thank you, Mr. Carr.

00:10:57Mr. Carr,

00:10:58what was the reason for this remarkable

00:11:00act of generosity of yours

00:11:01towards your daughter?

00:11:03Well, it's you that's saying

00:11:04it's generous, love, not me.

00:11:06Would you answer the question, please?

00:11:08Whether we admit

00:11:09the adjective generous or not,

00:11:12what was the reason

00:11:12for this large gift?

00:11:14Well, the same as the kiss and the squeeze.

00:11:17It was her birthday the day before, wasn't it?

00:11:19And you'd always, in previous years,

00:11:21given her presence of this science?

00:11:23Oh, come on.

00:11:25Look, what do people of your class

00:11:26give one another for presents, then?

00:11:28I mean, £100, what's that?

00:11:30Well, as long as you work for it

00:11:32and you can afford it.

00:11:34Very well, we'll pass on.

00:11:36How long before that was it

00:11:38since you'd seen your daughter, Mr. Carr?

00:11:40Oh, um...

00:11:42Four months.

00:11:43May the 9th, I got sent down.

00:11:46Mr. Carr,

00:11:46I must point out to you

00:11:48that there's absolutely no necessity

00:11:50for you to give self-incriminatory answers

00:11:52of that kind, you know.

00:11:53Well, depends who thinks

00:11:55they're self-incriminatory answers

00:11:55of that kind, you know.

00:11:57Well, doesn't it?

00:11:59Look, I mean,

00:12:00I don't mind people knowing

00:12:01I've just come out of the nick.

00:12:03Just because I'm a thief

00:12:04doesn't mean to say I'm a liar.

00:12:06No.

00:12:08Well, very well then, Mr. Carr,

00:12:09if you insist, Mr. B.

00:12:11Perhaps you'd like to tell us, Mr. Carr,

00:12:13where the £100 came from, would you?

00:12:15Yes, certainly.

00:12:16Why not?

00:12:18I took it from a post office.

00:12:21A post office savings bank.

00:12:24Oh, do you want to see...

00:12:25No, thank you, Mr. Carr.

00:12:26That won't be necessary.

00:12:27However, let us pass on.

00:12:30Did you know, Mrs. Martin James,

00:12:32before you went to see your daughter

00:12:33at the hostel that evening?

00:12:35Not like that, no.

00:12:36I beg your pardon?

00:12:38Well, I mean,

00:12:38not in the way you mean.

00:12:40Oh, I may have met her

00:12:42once or twice in the past,

00:12:43you know,

00:12:44come across her now and again.

00:12:45But, oh, no, no,

00:12:46I certainly never...

00:12:47Mr. Carr,

00:12:48why are you denying implications

00:12:49I'm not even making?

00:12:50Hmm.

00:12:51I know you a lot.

00:12:53And, uh...

00:12:54Well, Mr. Carr,

00:12:55I am suggesting to you

00:12:56that you are certainly

00:12:57no friend of Mrs. Martin James.

00:13:00Hmm.

00:13:00You can say that again.

00:13:01Though you would certainly like to be.

00:13:03I put it to you

00:13:04that you have in the past

00:13:05made certain suggestions

00:13:07to Mrs. Martin James

00:13:09and that she has rebuffed you

00:13:11and that now

00:13:11you are trying to...

00:13:13You must be out of your tiny wig, love.

00:13:16Is that an answer, Mr. Carr?

00:13:18It sounded like an answer to me,

00:13:20Miss Levine.

00:13:22In that case, Your Honour,

00:13:23I have no more questions.

00:13:24Hmm.

00:13:26Springrooms?

00:13:26No.

00:13:27No, right, thank you, Mr. Carr.

00:13:28You may leave the witness box.

00:13:29Your Honour.

00:13:33Mary Carr.

00:13:34That bloody time.

00:13:38Watch it, Dumbo.

00:13:40Found it on your own, then,

00:13:41or did they bring you on a lead?

00:13:43Is this it?

00:13:45Mary, Mother,

00:13:46and all the angels' arms.

00:13:48And what happened then, Mary?

00:13:51Well, I was sitting in a chair

00:13:52by the front sitting room window.

00:13:54I was wondering how long it would be

00:13:55before I'd see him again.

00:13:56And then Patsy come in.

00:13:57Patsy, that's another girl from the hospital.

00:14:00Patricia Donovan.

00:14:01Yeah.

00:14:01She said,

00:14:02What's up, Mary?

00:14:03I said,

00:14:04Well, you know,

00:14:04seeing me dad and him going again

00:14:06and all that.

00:14:07And she said,

00:14:07Well, at least you've got a dad, Mary.

00:14:09Well, one that's come to see you

00:14:10on your birthday anyway.

00:14:11And I said,

00:14:12Yeah.

00:14:12And I said,

00:14:13And guess what he'd give me

00:14:14for a birthday present?

00:14:15She said,

00:14:15I don't know what.

00:14:16I said,

00:14:17Hundred quid.

00:14:17She said,

00:14:18Hundred quid?

00:14:19I said,

00:14:19Yeah,

00:14:19Hundred quid.

00:14:20She said,

00:14:21Go on,

00:14:21I don't believe it.

00:14:22I said,

00:14:22He did,

00:14:23I said.

00:14:24I said,

00:14:24Look then,

00:14:24count it if you like.

00:14:26And I showed it her.

00:14:27The cash,

00:14:28the actual money.

00:14:29She said,

00:14:29Well,

00:14:30fuck,

00:14:31er,

00:14:31core.

00:14:32Core, blimey,

00:14:33she said,

00:14:33core.

00:14:34Yes,

00:14:35thank you, Mary.

00:14:35And as a result of that conversation,

00:14:37Mary,

00:14:37what did you then do?

00:14:39Do what?

00:14:41Oh, yeah.

00:14:41Well,

00:14:42we went on a bit

00:14:43and talked about this

00:14:44and that and things.

00:14:44And then she said,

00:14:45Well,

00:14:45what are you going to do with it then,

00:14:47Mary?

00:14:47The hundred pounds.

00:14:49Right.

00:14:50I said,

00:14:50I don't know yet,

00:14:51do I?

00:14:51I haven't had a chance to think about it yet,

00:14:52have I?

00:14:53Because I hadn't.

00:14:54Then I said,

00:14:54Well,

00:14:54I know one thing I'm going to do

00:14:56though straight away,

00:14:56Patsy.

00:14:57And she said,

00:14:58What?

00:14:58And I said,

00:14:58Hold your hand out.

00:14:59And when she did,

00:15:00I said,

00:15:00There you are

00:15:01and don't argue about it.

00:15:02That's for you.

00:15:04What?

00:15:05What was for her?

00:15:07What?

00:15:08Oh,

00:15:08the money.

00:15:09I give her the money.

00:15:09Well,

00:15:09half of it,

00:15:1050 quid.

00:15:11I said,

00:15:12There you are,

00:15:12Patsy.

00:15:13I said,

00:15:13That's for you.

00:15:14That's yours for being such a good mate of mine.

00:15:16Now,

00:15:16Mary,

00:15:17how much money did you give her again?

00:15:19Exactly half.

00:15:20We counted it out,

00:15:2050 quid.

00:15:21Now,

00:15:22this was late on the Saturday afternoon,

00:15:25shortly after your father had left.

00:15:27Is that right?

00:15:27Right.

00:15:28More or less exactly six o'clock.

00:15:30Yes.

00:15:30Now,

00:15:30Mary,

00:15:30how is it that you remember the time so exactly?

00:15:33Because Cokie come in with Barbara.

00:15:35Just a moment,

00:15:36Mary,

00:15:36please.

00:15:36Cokie?

00:15:37Cokie Andrews.

00:15:38One of the girls in the hostel.

00:15:39That's her over there,

00:15:41sitting with Chrissie at the back.

00:15:43Yes.

00:15:43Yes,

00:15:44indeed.

00:15:46Now,

00:15:47Barbara.

00:15:48Now,

00:15:49that's another girl from the hostel.

00:15:50Yes.

00:15:51Dumball,

00:15:51we usually call her.

00:15:52She's a bit,

00:15:52uh,

00:15:54Mary,

00:15:55never mind that for the moment.

00:15:56Let's just tell us some more about what happened when Barbara and Cokie came in.

00:16:02Not so much what was said,

00:16:03but what it was that happened that made you remember that it was precisely six o'clock.

00:16:07Your Honour,

00:16:08I feel my learned friend is leading the witness in such a way as to me.

00:16:12Oh,

00:16:12do you,

00:16:12Mr. Bean?

00:16:12I can't say I particularly thought so.

00:16:15No,

00:16:15I think you're just trying to hurry things along a little and keep your witness to the point,

00:16:18aren't you,

00:16:19Mr.

00:16:19Ingrams?

00:16:20Yes,

00:16:20indeed,

00:16:21Your Honour,

00:16:21precisely.

00:16:22Yes,

00:16:22well,

00:16:22I,

00:16:22I think I'll let you go on for the moment.

00:16:25I am obliged,

00:16:25Your Honour.

00:16:26Thank you,

00:16:26Mr. Bean.

00:16:28Mary,

00:16:28I'll ask you again.

00:16:29Now,

00:16:29what makes you remember so exactly that it was six o'clock precisely?

00:16:32Well,

00:16:33Barbara had got this watch she said a bloke could give her.

00:16:36She showed it us and she asked us how much we thought she'd get for it at Dolly's.

00:16:39At where?

00:16:41At where did you say,

00:16:43Miss?

00:16:43At Dolly's.

00:16:44It's a sort of,

00:16:45er,

00:16:46second-hand furniture shop.

00:16:49In effect,

00:16:50she was asking you what you thought it was worth.

00:16:52Right.

00:16:52And what did you tell her?

00:16:54Nothing.

00:16:55Oh,

00:16:56yes,

00:16:56I see.

00:16:56You mean that you told her that you thought it was valueless?

00:16:59Yeah,

00:16:59it only got one hand,

00:17:00the little one.

00:17:01She said that's all you needed.

00:17:03It was pointed to six o'clock,

00:17:04so that's what it was,

00:17:05six o'clock.

00:17:06And just as she said it,

00:17:07we heard the bloke say it was six o'clock on Cokie's tranny,

00:17:09and it made us all laugh.

00:17:11She says funny things like that sometimes,

00:17:13just done,

00:17:13er,

00:17:14Barbara.

00:17:15We asked her what she'd give him for it.

00:17:17She said 69.

00:17:19Hmm?

00:17:2169 pounds?

00:17:23Er,

00:17:23so,

00:17:24in fact,

00:17:24it was the,

00:17:25er,

00:17:25the incident with Barbara's one-handed watch,

00:17:27which made you remember that it was precisely six o'clock.

00:17:29Now,

00:17:29what happened then,

00:17:30Mary?

00:17:31Jimmy come in the sitting room.

00:17:32Jimmy?

00:17:33Oh,

00:17:33you mean,

00:17:34er,

00:17:34Mrs.

00:17:34Martin James.

00:17:35Jimmy being your,

00:17:37well,

00:17:37what should we say,

00:17:38er,

00:17:38your pet name for her.

00:17:39It was our name for her.

00:17:41And what occurred?

00:17:42She started in on Barbara,

00:17:44started giving her a rucking.

00:17:46Well,

00:17:46can you tell us a little more about that?

00:17:48Well,

00:17:48Barbara'd run up to us

00:17:49and she'd come in all excited,

00:17:51showing her a watch.

00:17:52When she told her a bloke could give it her,

00:17:53Jimmy started yelling and swearing at her,

00:17:55telling her she was nothing but a,

00:17:57but a tart.

00:17:59Then Patsy said,

00:18:00well,

00:18:00what does that make me and Mary then?

00:18:01Look what we've got,

00:18:02and guess how we got it.

00:18:04She took the 50 quid out of here,

00:18:05and we pulled Jimmy's leg for a few minutes,

00:18:07till we told her the truth,

00:18:08that me dad had given me.

00:18:10Now,

00:18:10Mrs. Martin James saw the money that you had also,

00:18:12the cash that each one of you had.

00:18:14No,

00:18:14she only saw that,

00:18:15that Patsy had,

00:18:16but Patsy told her I'd got 50 quid and all,

00:18:18and I didn't say I hadn't.

00:18:20Now,

00:18:20Mary,

00:18:20did Mrs. Martin James make any suggestions about it?

00:18:23Well,

00:18:24I mean,

00:18:24for example,

00:18:25such as that she should look after the money for you.

00:18:27No.

00:18:28Did you make any suggestions to her,

00:18:30that she should look after the money?

00:18:31No,

00:18:31I,

00:18:32no,

00:18:33I didn't.

00:18:34Now,

00:18:34Mary,

00:18:34where did you then put your money,

00:18:37the 50 pounds in cash?

00:18:39In the back of the drawer,

00:18:41in the locker,

00:18:41beside my bed,

00:18:42in my bedroom.

00:18:43Now,

00:18:43do you mean inside the drawer at the back?

00:18:46No,

00:18:46the back of the drawer's a bit loose,

00:18:48you can pull it forward a bit,

00:18:49so you've got like a secret compartment behind it.

00:18:52Did you put anything else at the back of the drawer at the same time?

00:18:55No,

00:18:55what like?

00:18:56Oh,

00:18:57yeah,

00:18:57I put the other 50 quid of Patsy's in there too with it,

00:18:59right,

00:19:00yeah.

00:19:00Had Patsy asked you to do that,

00:19:02to hide it away with her?

00:19:03Yeah.

00:19:05Was the money in anything?

00:19:07What,

00:19:07a container of some kind?

00:19:09No,

00:19:09just loose.

00:19:11Now,

00:19:11did anyone else besides you and Patsy know that you'd put the money there?

00:19:14Yeah,

00:19:15because Patsy went and told Jimmy that she'd put it there.

00:19:17Mary,

00:19:18please,

00:19:18don't continue with what you were going to say.

00:19:21Your Honour,

00:19:21I will rephrase that last question to the witness.

00:19:23Yes,

00:19:23indeed,

00:19:23Mr. Ingrams,

00:19:24I think you'd better.

00:19:25Mary,

00:19:26just answer this question,

00:19:27yes or no.

00:19:28Did anyone else besides Patsy see you put the money at the back of the drawer?

00:19:33No.

00:19:34And this question too,

00:19:35please,

00:19:35just yes or no.

00:19:37Did you yourself tell anyone that it was put there?

00:19:40No.

00:19:42And when did you discover that the money was missing?

00:19:44The next time I come to look for it,

00:19:46about six o'clock on Sunday.

00:19:49Thank you very much,

00:19:49Mary.

00:19:53Miss Carr,

00:19:54since my learned friend hasn't himself asked you what would seem to me to be the next logical question,

00:19:59I will.

00:20:00How did you discover the money was missing?

00:20:03By opening the drawer,

00:20:04taking the back out and seeing it weren't there.

00:20:07Why were you looking for it particularly at that time?

00:20:11Answer,

00:20:12please.

00:20:13I was fed up.

00:20:14I wanted to run away.

00:20:16Why were you fed up?

00:20:17Wouldn't you be in a place like that?

00:20:19Yes,

00:20:19I think I very certainly should.

00:20:21However,

00:20:21at the moment,

00:20:22what we're concerned with is why you were.

00:20:24Cousin Linda.

00:20:26This is the girl who'd been on the roof threatening to kill herself.

00:20:29Right.

00:20:30Now,

00:20:31I'm not suggesting that this is why she had done that,

00:20:33but you had in fact had a violent quarrel at lunchtime at that time.

00:20:37Your Honor,

00:20:37is this relis,

00:20:38Miss Levine?

00:20:39Is this strictly germane?

00:20:41Your Honor,

00:20:43Miss Carr,

00:20:44has Mrs. Martin James ever struck you,

00:20:47hit you?

00:20:48No.

00:20:50Has she ever,

00:20:51how shall I put it,

00:20:52informed on you to the police?

00:20:54No.

00:20:55Would you say,

00:20:56and please don't be hesitant about it if you feel it,

00:20:59would you say she had ever done anything to harm you in any way whatsoever before this alleged theft from you?

00:21:06Not particularly.

00:21:07Please don't qualify,

00:21:08Mary.

00:21:09Has she or hasn't she?

00:21:10No,

00:21:11she hasn't.

00:21:11Then why do you hate her so much?

00:21:13Honor,

00:21:13with the greatest respect,

00:21:15I suggest that my learned friend has not established that this witness hates Mrs. Martin James at all.

00:21:21Hmm.

00:21:22Miss Levine?

00:21:23I will rephrase the question,

00:21:25Your Honor,

00:21:26but precede it with another,

00:21:27if I may.

00:21:30Miss Carr,

00:21:31you don't like Mrs. Martin James very much,

00:21:34do you?

00:21:34None of us does.

00:21:35No,

00:21:35I didn't ask you that.

00:21:36I asked you about you yourself,

00:21:38your own feelings.

00:21:39No.

00:21:40But why is that?

00:21:41Because she stole my money,

00:21:42mine and Patsy's.

00:21:44Yes,

00:21:44but before this alleged theft,

00:21:45you said that the moment you discovered the money was missing,

00:21:48you went straight to Woman Police Constable Ball,

00:21:51who was in the hostel at that time,

00:21:52and told her,

00:21:54and reported the whole fact to her.

00:21:55Well,

00:21:56yeah.

00:21:57Miss Carr,

00:21:58what I'm suggesting is very short and simple.

00:22:01You immediately put suspicion,

00:22:03and I'm not suggesting you didn't genuinely feel it,

00:22:05on to Mrs. Martin James.

00:22:07Now,

00:22:07why was that?

00:22:08Because I know what she is.

00:22:09You know what she is.

00:22:10What is she?

00:22:13Not a very nice sort of person,

00:22:15I think.

00:22:16Not a very nice sort of person.

00:22:18What does that mean?

00:22:19Your Honor,

00:22:19I submit,

00:22:20my lonely friend has her answer.

00:22:21The witness is expressing merely her own personal opinion,

00:22:23that she does not think that the accused is a very nice sort of person.

00:22:26Yes,

00:22:27you know,

00:22:27I do feel,

00:22:28Miss Levine,

00:22:28that you should not badger the witness.

00:22:30Your Honor,

00:22:30with respect,

00:22:31I said...

00:22:31No,

00:22:32no,

00:22:32Miss Levine,

00:22:32I'm not going to allow it,

00:22:33and that is that.

00:22:37In that case,

00:22:37I have no more questions.

00:22:39Miss Brinkland?

00:22:40No further questions,

00:22:41Your Honor.

00:22:41I call Patricia Donovan.

00:22:46Patricia Donovan?

00:22:47What kind of thing?

00:22:49Oh.

00:22:51Oh.

00:22:53Oh,

00:22:53shut up,

00:22:54Barbara.

00:22:56Look,

00:22:56I told you it would take me a minute to find somewhere for the car.

00:23:00Now,

00:23:01Patsy,

00:23:01so that we can be absolutely clear about this,

00:23:04you are saying that you told Mrs. Martin James,

00:23:07in so many words,

00:23:08after supper on the Saturday evening,

00:23:10when you were on your own with her in her office,

00:23:13that Mary had put £100 in cash,

00:23:15in the sort of secret compartment

00:23:18at the back of the drawer in her bedside locker.

00:23:20I did.

00:23:21That's the honest truth to God.

00:23:22Now,

00:23:23Patsy,

00:23:23why did you tell her that?

00:23:25Because she kept asking me where the money was.

00:23:27Was I sure it was safe and so on?

00:23:29You know,

00:23:30it's a daft thing to do,

00:23:31though,

00:23:31to tell her.

00:23:32Did you tell Mary that you had told her?

00:23:34No,

00:23:35I didn't.

00:23:36She'd have killed me.

00:23:37I mean,

00:23:37she knew I knew,

00:23:39like everyone else,

00:23:39what a thieving person she was.

00:23:41No,

00:23:41Patsy,

00:23:42I don't want you to say things of that kind,

00:23:43please.

00:23:44Miss Levine?

00:23:44Your Honour,

00:23:46it might perhaps be of assistance to my learned friend,

00:23:49or at least lessen his embarrassment,

00:23:51if I make it quite clear

00:23:52that it is to be no part of the defence to conceal,

00:23:56in fact,

00:23:56we intend to be perfectly open about it,

00:23:59the fact that Mrs. Martin James has a criminal record

00:24:01and has been in prison several times.

00:24:03join us again tomorrow,

00:24:27when the case of the Queen against Martin James will be resumed in the Crown Court.

00:24:32Stella Martin James,

00:24:41the warden in charge of Greenhouse Probation Hostel for Girls,

00:24:46is accused of stealing the sum of £100 in cash.

00:24:49belonging to Mary Carr and Patsy Donovan,

00:25:04two of the girls who are living in the hostel.

00:25:06She has pleaded not guilty,

00:25:09but the defence has admitted that she herself has a criminal record

00:25:12and has been in prison several times.

00:25:14What is your occupation, Mr. White?

00:25:19I'm a shop manager for the Westway Wine Company.

00:25:23And you,

00:25:23in fact,

00:25:24live over the shop

00:25:25in a flat which they provide?

00:25:27Yes,

00:25:28that's right.

00:25:29Now,

00:25:29the accused,

00:25:30Mrs. Martin James,

00:25:31is a regular customer of yours,

00:25:32is she not?

00:25:33Yes,

00:25:34she is.

00:25:34Well,

00:25:35she was.

00:25:36Did she have an account with you?

00:25:39Not an account,

00:25:40strictly speaking,

00:25:41no.

00:25:42It's not really company policy to let people have accounts.

00:25:45Well,

00:25:45not an official account to be sure,

00:25:47but last August she did in fact owe you some money.

00:25:50Yes,

00:25:50she did.

00:25:51Now,

00:25:51do you remember how much it was?

00:25:53Something rather over £75,

00:25:55nearly £80.

00:25:56Hmm.

00:25:57Yes,

00:25:57now,

00:25:57Mr. White,

00:25:58do you remember Saturday,

00:25:59August the 15th last?

00:26:00Yes.

00:26:00What happened on that day?

00:26:02Stell,

00:26:02Mrs. Martin James,

00:26:04came into the shop about two o'clock

00:26:06and wanted two bottles of sherry.

00:26:08I said I wouldn't let her have them

00:26:10until she paid off what she owed,

00:26:12or at least some of it,

00:26:14because if the company found out

00:26:15I'd given her so much credit,

00:26:17I'd lose my job.

00:26:18And what was her reaction to that?

00:26:20She became very violent and abusive,

00:26:22swearing at me and,

00:26:24well,

00:26:24threatening.

00:26:25Threatening to damage the shop and me.

00:26:27So what did you do?

00:26:30For the sake of peace,

00:26:31I,

00:26:31well,

00:26:32I let her have the two bottles of sherry.

00:26:34Now,

00:26:34when you asked her to pay off her debt,

00:26:36or as you say,

00:26:37at least part of it,

00:26:39was it your impression that she simply wouldn't,

00:26:41or that she in fact couldn't?

00:26:43That she couldn't.

00:26:44I said,

00:26:45look still,

00:26:45it's getting on,

00:26:46I'm sorry,

00:26:47I mean Mrs. Martin James.

00:26:48It's quite all right,

00:26:49Mr. White,

00:26:49please go on.

00:26:50I said,

00:26:51I mean,

00:26:51look,

00:26:51it's getting on for £80,

00:26:53it's serious.

00:26:54And she said,

00:26:54where the f...

00:26:55Where do you think I'm going to get that kind of money from?

00:27:00She couldn't pay you,

00:27:01because she didn't have that kind of money.

00:27:03Yes.

00:27:03But,

00:27:04on the very next day,

00:27:05Sunday,

00:27:06what happened?

00:27:06About three o'clock on Sunday afternoon,

00:27:09I got a call from her,

00:27:11from Mrs. Martin James.

00:27:13She said,

00:27:13look Roy,

00:27:14I've had a stroke of luck.

00:27:16I can come in and pay all I owe you tomorrow.

00:27:19The accused actually told you that she could come in the following day and pay off the debt?

00:27:25Yes.

00:27:26And did she in fact do that?

00:27:27No.

00:27:28Well,

00:27:29I mean,

00:27:29by then she'd been well arrested.

00:27:31Ah,

00:27:31yes,

00:27:31of course.

00:27:32Thank you,

00:27:33Mr. White.

00:27:37The,

00:27:37uh,

00:27:37phone call you've just mentioned,

00:27:39Mr. White,

00:27:40did the accused say anything else besides having a stroke of luck?

00:27:45Something about,

00:27:47there's all hell going on here,

00:27:49and then ran off again.

00:27:50Thank you very much indeed,

00:27:52Mr. White.

00:27:53Now,

00:27:54um,

00:27:54you live on your own in the flat above the shop you're manager of,

00:27:58is that right?

00:27:58Yes.

00:27:59Are you married?

00:28:00No.

00:28:01Uh,

00:28:01well,

00:28:01yes I am,

00:28:02but,

00:28:02uh,

00:28:03I've been separated from my wife for three years now.

00:28:05Mr. White,

00:28:06you say it is not company policy to allow customers credit?

00:28:10Yes,

00:28:10that's right.

00:28:10No,

00:28:11it isn't.

00:28:12But nevertheless,

00:28:12on some occasions you do give some credit to some people.

00:28:16Well,

00:28:16local branch managers do have a bit of discretion.

00:28:19Judge for yourselves whether or not,

00:28:20someone is credit worthy or not.

00:28:22Yes.

00:28:22Now,

00:28:23I have here a copy of your company's management manual,

00:28:28Your Honor.

00:28:28Yes,

00:28:29yes.

00:28:31On page three,

00:28:32instruction four,

00:28:33credit must not be given to anyone under any circumstances whatsoever.

00:28:37The penalty for disobeying this instruction is immediate dismissal.

00:28:40This instruction may be shown to a customer if necessary.

00:28:44So,

00:28:45to exactly how many of your customers do you give credit?

00:28:48I can't say exactly.

00:28:51Ten,

00:28:52perhaps.

00:28:52Twelve?

00:28:53And those ten or twelve,

00:28:54on what basis do you judge whether they should have credit?

00:28:57I'm sorry,

00:28:58I don't understand.

00:29:00Mr. White,

00:29:00I put it to you

00:29:02that the customers to whom you give credit

00:29:04and thereby risk your job

00:29:06all have one thing in common.

00:29:08They must be in the first place female

00:29:10and in the second willing to let you have sex with them.

00:29:15No nonsense.

00:29:16That's completely untrue.

00:29:18Oh,

00:29:19are you saying,

00:29:20Mr. White,

00:29:20that you have not had sex

00:29:22in the flat above your shop

00:29:23with at least three of the girls

00:29:25currently resident at Greenhouse?

00:29:27Well,

00:29:31Mr. White,

00:29:31are you going to answer?

00:29:33Well,

00:29:33not at my suggestion,

00:29:34I haven't known.

00:29:35People don't know

00:29:36what some of those girls are like,

00:29:37how they egg you on.

00:29:39If you're on your own...

00:29:40And,

00:29:40Mr. White,

00:29:41this has also happened

00:29:42with one other person

00:29:44connected with Greenhouse.

00:29:47Is that what she says?

00:29:48What do you say,

00:29:50Mr. White?

00:29:50Well,

00:29:50we're very fond of each other.

00:29:54At least I thought we were.

00:29:56Is that why you've given

00:29:57the evidence you have given?

00:29:59Because you're fond of her?

00:30:00I wasn't going to say anything about...

00:30:02about that.

00:30:03It's you that's brought that out.

00:30:05I've no more questions.

00:30:10No further questions,

00:30:11Your Honor.

00:30:12That is the case

00:30:12for the prosecution.

00:30:14Mr. Ingrams.

00:30:15Thank you,

00:30:16Mr. White.

00:30:18Miss Levine?

00:30:19I call the defendant,

00:30:21Mrs. Martin James.

00:30:35The whole truth

00:30:36and nothing but the truth.

00:30:42What is your full name?

00:30:45Stella Margaret Martin James.

00:30:47Mrs. Martin James,

00:30:48how long have you been in charge

00:30:49of Greenhouse Probation Hostel?

00:30:52Two years.

00:30:52No,

00:30:53I'm sorry.

00:30:5522 months.

00:30:57Would you speak up a little,

00:30:58please?

00:30:58I'm sorry.

00:31:00I've been employed there

00:31:01for 22 months.

00:31:02And who are your employers?

00:31:06I'm sorry.

00:31:07I know this sounds ridiculous,

00:31:08but I don't know.

00:31:10Well,

00:31:11Miss Levine,

00:31:11perhaps we might know

00:31:12who actually gave her the job

00:31:14when she applied for it.

00:31:15I'm obliged,

00:31:16Your Honor.

00:31:16Would you answer

00:31:17His Honor's question then?

00:31:19Who did you apply to?

00:31:20Who appointed you?

00:31:22It was a sort of panel

00:31:23of people from the social services

00:31:25who interviewed me.

00:31:26And they all knew

00:31:27at the time

00:31:27they were interviewing you,

00:31:28did they?

00:31:29That you had a criminal record

00:31:30and had been in prison?

00:31:31Oh, yes.

00:31:32Yes,

00:31:32they did.

00:31:33How did they know?

00:31:35Sorry,

00:31:36I'm afraid I...

00:31:36Who told them?

00:31:38Oh,

00:31:39I did.

00:31:40You told them yourself

00:31:41that there was no attempt

00:31:43at concealment

00:31:44of your past at all?

00:31:46No, no,

00:31:46not at all.

00:31:47And this panel

00:31:48or committee

00:31:49or whatever they were,

00:31:50knowing your record

00:31:51still gave you the job?

00:31:53Yes, they did.

00:31:54Why was that?

00:31:56Well,

00:31:57I think they decided

00:31:58to give me a chance.

00:31:59Did they feel perhaps

00:32:00that someone

00:32:01who had been in trouble

00:32:02themselves

00:32:03might perhaps be

00:32:04just the person

00:32:06to help

00:32:07and guide

00:32:08girls

00:32:08who were starting

00:32:09very seriously

00:32:09to go wrong?

00:32:11Well,

00:32:11they might have

00:32:13thought that, yes.

00:32:14And ever since

00:32:14those people

00:32:15who appointed you

00:32:15put that trust in you,

00:32:17have you ever

00:32:18let them down?

00:32:19I hope not.

00:32:21Have there ever been

00:32:22any complaints

00:32:22about the way

00:32:23you were doing your job?

00:32:24No,

00:32:25I...

00:32:25I don't think so.

00:32:30And in the time

00:32:31you've been in charge

00:32:32of Greenhouse Probation

00:32:33Hostel,

00:32:33Mrs. Martin James,

00:32:34how many girls

00:32:36have at any one time

00:32:38been your responsibility

00:32:39there?

00:32:41I suppose it must be

00:32:4250 or 60 by now.

00:32:45You have to do

00:32:46such things as

00:32:47keep up-to-date records

00:32:48about them,

00:32:49write confidential

00:32:50reports on their progress,

00:32:52even sometimes

00:32:52go to court

00:32:53and speak about

00:32:54one of the girls.

00:32:55Yes, I do.

00:32:56Was the court aware

00:32:57on such occasions

00:32:58that you yourself

00:32:59had a criminal record,

00:33:00Mrs. Martin James?

00:33:02No, Your Honor.

00:33:03No.

00:33:04Now, Mrs. Martin James,

00:33:06I think we have

00:33:07sufficiently established

00:33:08the responsibility

00:33:09of the job

00:33:10that you've been doing

00:33:11for nearly two years

00:33:12and the way

00:33:13you've been doing it

00:33:13so satisfactorily.

00:33:15So, let us pass

00:33:16from that general

00:33:17background

00:33:18to the particular

00:33:19events that took

00:33:20place at

00:33:21Greenhouse Hostel.

00:33:22Are you well enough

00:33:45to continue,

00:33:46Mrs. Martin James?

00:33:47Yes, really.

00:33:47I'm terribly sorry.

00:33:49I'm perfectly all right.

00:33:51You will remember,

00:33:52perhaps,

00:33:52that I was about

00:33:53to ask you

00:33:54about the conflicting

00:33:55statements you made

00:33:56to Woman Police Constable Ball

00:33:58when she came to your office

00:33:59to ask you about

00:34:00the missing money.

00:34:01Yes, and it's absolutely true.

00:34:03I did make all those statements,

00:34:04just as she said.

00:34:05Shall we go through them

00:34:06one by one?

00:34:07First of all,

00:34:08she says, you said,

00:34:10I haven't the faintest idea

00:34:11what you're talking about

00:34:12or words to that effect.

00:34:13Yes, and I really,

00:34:14really didn't have at first.

00:34:15I couldn't think,

00:34:16what?

00:34:16So that when she came

00:34:18into the office

00:34:18and came straight out

00:34:19with, where's the missing money

00:34:21then, my mind just went black.

00:34:23And then Mary came in

00:34:24and threw an envelope

00:34:25down on the desk

00:34:26in front of you.

00:34:26Yes, almost as...

00:34:28You were going to say something?

00:34:29No, no.

00:34:30It seemed you were about to add.

00:34:32No, it's probably

00:34:33not fair to say it.

00:34:35I was going to say it

00:34:36almost as if she'd been

00:34:37listening at the door,

00:34:38but that wouldn't be...

00:34:39Then, at the police officer's request,

00:34:41you opened the envelope

00:34:42and saw the money.

00:34:43You then said,

00:34:45Mary, what are you doing?

00:34:46Where has this come from?

00:34:48Well, of course,

00:34:49I knew where it had come from,

00:34:50but my mind was racing

00:34:52with all sorts.

00:34:53Then you said,

00:34:53it's mine,

00:34:54you mustn't take things

00:34:55belonging to other people.

00:34:56It was unforgivable.

00:34:58It was the first thing

00:34:59that came into my...

00:35:01It was completely untrue.

00:35:02And then you went on

00:35:03and in fact accused Mary

00:35:05of planting it on you.

00:35:07I can't excuse it.

00:35:08I can only say

00:35:08that by then I'd utterly

00:35:10and completely lost...

00:35:11It was a terrible thing to do.

00:35:13And finally,

00:35:15she and Patsy

00:35:15gave me this money

00:35:16to look after for them.

00:35:18She knew it was there

00:35:19all the time.

00:35:20Yes, I did.

00:35:21I said that too.

00:35:22Was it true?

00:35:24No.

00:35:25Not really.

00:35:27How do you mean,

00:35:28not really?

00:35:29Well,

00:35:30to be honest,

00:35:31I did think

00:35:32I'd made it clear to Patsy

00:35:33that I was going to take

00:35:34the money out of the

00:35:35so-called secret compartment

00:35:36and put it somewhere else safer.

00:35:39And I thought Patsy

00:35:40would naturally have told Mary,

00:35:41but if Patsy says I didn't,

00:35:43then...

00:35:46Well, I couldn't have.

00:35:48Did you later,

00:35:49when you were taken

00:35:49to the police station

00:35:50and charged,

00:35:50make a statement

00:35:51in which you admitted

00:35:52taking the money?

00:35:53Yes, I did.

00:35:54By then,

00:35:55it was utterly hopeless

00:35:56to explain any more.

00:35:57Everything I was saying

00:35:57was just making it sound worse.

00:36:00Even so,

00:36:00that doesn't excuse

00:36:01all those terrible lies.

00:36:02and I can only say now

00:36:04how bitterly I regret it.

00:36:06Mrs. Martin-James,

00:36:07did you intend

00:36:09to steal that money,

00:36:10that £100 in cash?

00:36:13Did you intend

00:36:14to deprive Mary Carr

00:36:16and Patricia Donovan

00:36:16of it

00:36:17and use it for yourself?

00:36:19No.

00:36:20On my word of honour,

00:36:21I did not.

00:36:22What I did intend

00:36:23and what I did try to do

00:36:24in a very, very silly way...

00:36:26No.

00:36:28I did not intend

00:36:30to deprive them of it.

00:36:31You were going to say

00:36:31something else

00:36:32in addition...

00:36:32No, I don't want

00:36:33to add to that.

00:36:34Mrs. Martin-James,

00:36:35I'm sure I don't need

00:36:36to point out to you

00:36:37that you are neither

00:36:38helping yourself

00:36:39nor making your counsel's

00:36:40task of defending you

00:36:41any easier

00:36:42if you withhold

00:36:43things which may be relevant.

00:36:45I'm sorry, Your Honour.

00:36:47I don't want to say

00:36:48something that might reflect

00:36:49on people who can't

00:36:50be here to deny it.

00:36:51Do they at this moment

00:36:52stand accused of something?

00:36:55No, Your Honour.

00:36:56No.

00:36:57Then don't you think

00:36:57you should let your counsel

00:36:58decide if something

00:36:59is too detrimental

00:37:00to others to be suggested?

00:37:01Yes, Your Honour.

00:37:04Mm-hm.

00:37:06They said it in a room...

00:37:08Well, to be blunt about it,

00:37:10they said it in a room

00:37:11full of people,

00:37:12some of whom

00:37:12wouldn't have hesitated

00:37:13to take that money

00:37:14if they'd known

00:37:15where it was

00:37:15and could lay their hands on it.

00:37:16Well, I see nothing wrong

00:37:18in your saying that,

00:37:18Mrs. Martin-James.

00:37:20After all,

00:37:20everybody knows

00:37:21that you are a warden

00:37:22of a probation hostel,

00:37:24not Mother Superior

00:37:25of a convent.

00:37:27I'm obliged to Your Honour.

00:37:30So, let us now

00:37:32come to the evidence

00:37:33that was brought

00:37:34to suggest that you did

00:37:35intend to keep the money,

00:37:37the evidence of Mr. White.

00:37:39Was any of that true?

00:37:41Some of it, I'm afraid,

00:37:42was, yes.

00:37:43Some of it.

00:37:43Were you, for instance,

00:37:44indebted to him

00:37:45to the tune

00:37:45of £75 for drink?

00:37:48I didn't know

00:37:48it was quite as much

00:37:49as that,

00:37:49but yes, yes,

00:37:52I was in debt

00:37:53to him for money

00:37:54for drink that I had

00:37:55and...

00:37:56No, it doesn't matter.

00:37:58No, all I was going

00:38:00to say was that

00:38:00that wasn't what

00:38:01I owed him

00:38:02for a week's purchases

00:38:03or something like that.

00:38:03It was a total well

00:38:04over several months.

00:38:06I'm going to ask you

00:38:07this perfectly bluntly,

00:38:08Mrs. Martin-James.

00:38:10Did you sometimes

00:38:11go to bed with him

00:38:13in return

00:38:14for his letting you

00:38:14take certain things

00:38:15from the shop on credit?

00:38:18It was the other way round.

00:38:20I first went to bed

00:38:21with him because

00:38:22I liked him

00:38:22and because I felt

00:38:24sorry for him

00:38:25because he was so lonely.

00:38:27Then he started

00:38:28to give me a bottle

00:38:28of wine or spirits

00:38:29from time to time

00:38:30as a present.

00:38:32I didn't know

00:38:33that he was totting it up.

00:38:34I thought it was

00:38:35because he liked me too.

00:38:37But then...

00:38:39Well, to be honest,

00:38:40I found out

00:38:40that he was having sex

00:38:41with some of the girls

00:38:42in my charge

00:38:43at the hostel

00:38:43and I was absolutely

00:38:44disgusted with him.

00:38:46I told him that I wanted

00:38:47nothing more to do

00:38:48with him.

00:38:49And then he started

00:38:49to say he was going

00:38:51to blackmail me almost.

00:38:52He started to say

00:38:53he'd send letters

00:38:54about me to people.

00:38:54Although none of this

00:38:55was put to Mr. White

00:38:56when he was in the witness box.

00:38:57No, quite.

00:38:59Well, you could,

00:39:00of course, recall

00:39:00your witness later,

00:39:01couldn't you,

00:39:02and put these matters

00:39:02to him, Mr. Ingrams,

00:39:03if you feel strongly about it.

00:39:06Your Honor.

00:39:09However, Mrs. Martin-James,

00:39:11it is true, is it,

00:39:12that you were

00:39:13in the off-license shop

00:39:14managed by Mr. White

00:39:15on the Saturday afternoon,

00:39:17August the 15th,

00:39:18asking for two bottles

00:39:19of sherry.

00:39:20Yes, it is.

00:39:21And he refused

00:39:21to let you have them

00:39:22unless you paid for them.

00:39:24Yes.

00:39:25I didn't want to pay

00:39:26for them in cash

00:39:26because I didn't have

00:39:27any money.

00:39:28And I didn't want

00:39:29to pay for them

00:39:29in the other way

00:39:30that he suggested

00:39:31I should.

00:39:32Did you become

00:39:32abusive and violent,

00:39:34threatening,

00:39:35I think he said,

00:39:36to damage him

00:39:37and his shop?

00:39:38I might have been abusive.

00:39:40He sickened me.

00:39:41But violent,

00:39:42what?

00:39:44Well, he's nearly

00:39:45a foot taller than me

00:39:46and considerably heavier.

00:39:48He let you have

00:39:48the sherry eventually?

00:39:49Yes.

00:39:50But he made it clear

00:39:51that it was going

00:39:52on the account.

00:39:53And it's something else

00:39:54to...

00:39:54Yes?

00:39:55No, I'm sorry.

00:39:55I was going to say

00:39:56he didn't mean

00:39:57the financial account.

00:39:58And did something else

00:40:00transpire later

00:40:00that afternoon?

00:40:02Yes, it did.

00:40:03At about quarter to six,

00:40:04he phoned me up

00:40:05and said,

00:40:06would I like to go

00:40:07in and pay for the sherry

00:40:08before he opened up

00:40:08the shop again

00:40:09for the evening?

00:40:10What he meant

00:40:10was perfectly plain.

00:40:12Oh, yes.

00:40:13And he said,

00:40:13if I didn't,

00:40:13he'd phone up Mr. Jeffrey

00:40:14and tell him

00:40:15what had been going

00:40:16on between us.

00:40:17Mr. Jeffrey?

00:40:18Oh, I'm sorry.

00:40:19That's Mr. John Jeffrey,

00:40:21the local authority

00:40:21social worker.

00:40:23And what was your answer

00:40:24to Mr. White?

00:40:26Well, I told him

00:40:26I couldn't go in

00:40:27straight away.

00:40:28Because I was on my own

00:40:29in charge.

00:40:31But I'd try and go

00:40:32and see him

00:40:32the following day.

00:40:33What happened

00:40:34at Greenhouse Hostel

00:40:35shortly after you'd

00:40:37received the phone call

00:40:37from Mr. White?

00:40:40Well, I was feeling

00:40:41very low.

00:40:42I think I made myself

00:40:44a cup of tea

00:40:44and had a cigarette.

00:40:46Then I went

00:40:47into the sitting room

00:40:48to see which of the girls

00:40:49would be in for supper.

00:40:51Barbara came in first.

00:40:52She was wanting

00:40:53to show me a watch

00:40:53a man had given her.

00:40:55She was laughing.

00:40:56She said

00:40:56a girl could get

00:40:57anything she wanted

00:40:58out of a man.

00:40:59What was your reaction

00:41:00to that?

00:41:01Well, I'm afraid

00:41:02I completely lost

00:41:03my temper.

00:41:05Barbara's...

00:41:06Well, to put it bluntly,

00:41:09she's got very severe

00:41:10problems,

00:41:11both educationally

00:41:12and mentally.

00:41:13She does let people

00:41:14take advantage of her.

00:41:15And then

00:41:16Patsy and Mary

00:41:17started trying to provoke me

00:41:18too.

00:41:19They said they got

00:41:19£100 in cash

00:41:20and were saying

00:41:21very lewd things

00:41:22about what they'd done

00:41:22to get it.

00:41:23And that was the first

00:41:24time you learned

00:41:25that Mary and Patsy

00:41:26had a large sum in cash?

00:41:28Yes.

00:41:29And when I had a chance

00:41:29to talk to Patsy

00:41:30privately about it,

00:41:31I asked her

00:41:32if it was really true

00:41:33that she and Mary

00:41:34had £100.

00:41:35She said yes.

00:41:36And I said,

00:41:37well, that's an awfully

00:41:38large sum of money

00:41:39to have in cash.

00:41:40Wouldn't it be better

00:41:40if I looked after it

00:41:41for them?

00:41:42And she said

00:41:42that it was perfectly safe,

00:41:44but I wasn't happy

00:41:45about it.

00:41:45But I was expecting

00:41:46Mr. Geoffrey back.

00:41:47and I thought

00:41:48I'd leave until

00:41:49he returned

00:41:50so that I could

00:41:51ask him what to do

00:41:51about it.

00:41:52But about 9 o'clock

00:41:53he phoned up

00:41:54and said a car

00:41:55had broken down

00:41:55upside Ipswich

00:41:56and he wouldn't be

00:41:57back until the

00:41:58following morning.

00:41:59So that was

00:41:59one more thing

00:42:01going wrong

00:42:01on top of

00:42:02everything else

00:42:03and leaving you

00:42:04very much

00:42:04on your own.

00:42:05Yes.

00:42:06And then when I

00:42:07heard he wasn't

00:42:07coming back either,

00:42:08I, well,

00:42:10I'm afraid I take

00:42:11pills,

00:42:13tranquilizers

00:42:13and so on.

00:42:14I took rather a lot

00:42:15to try and stop

00:42:16myself worrying.

00:42:17They didn't seem

00:42:18to work

00:42:19and I'm afraid

00:42:20I drank nearly

00:42:22the whole of

00:42:22a bottle of sherry

00:42:23on my own too.

00:42:24And what effect

00:42:25did this have on you?

00:42:27Well, I,

00:42:27I didn't get to sleep

00:42:29until about 4 o'clock.

00:42:30Then I was almost

00:42:31completely knocked out

00:42:32and in the morning

00:42:35I was in a kind

00:42:35of trance,

00:42:36I suppose.

00:42:37I know that when

00:42:38the girls went to church

00:42:39I had to keep drinking

00:42:39black coffee

00:42:40to try and clear my head.

00:42:41Now, I want there

00:42:42to be no doubt

00:42:43in the minds

00:42:44of the members

00:42:44of the jury

00:42:44about this.

00:42:46Are you saying

00:42:47that on Sunday morning

00:42:49as a result

00:42:50of the drink

00:42:50and the pills

00:42:51and the sleeplessness

00:42:52that you didn't know

00:42:54what you were doing?

00:42:56No.

00:42:57No, I'm not saying

00:42:58that at all, no.

00:43:00What did you do,

00:43:01Mrs. Martin-James?

00:43:02Yes.

00:43:03I went into

00:43:04Mary and Patsy's bedroom.

00:43:06I took the money

00:43:07out of the drawer

00:43:08where it was hidden

00:43:08and I put it

00:43:10in the drawer

00:43:10of my own dressing table.

00:43:12And what time

00:43:13did the girls get back?

00:43:15Patsy got in first

00:43:16and then Mary came in

00:43:18with another

00:43:18of the girls, Linda.

00:43:19Linda is the girl

00:43:20who'd had a serious

00:43:21quarrel with Mary?

00:43:22It had started

00:43:23the previous day

00:43:24and was still going on,

00:43:25getting worse.

00:43:26Did you know

00:43:26what the quarrel

00:43:27was about?

00:43:28It was...

00:43:30Well,

00:43:30I think they were

00:43:32very fond of each other.

00:43:34Girls do sometimes

00:43:35get like that

00:43:36about one another

00:43:37in the hostel.

00:43:37I think there was

00:43:38jealousy because

00:43:39one thought the other

00:43:40was paying too much

00:43:41attention to somebody else.

00:43:42Are we to hear evidence

00:43:43from this girl, Linda,

00:43:44Miss Levine?

00:43:45Your Honour,

00:43:46I am instructed

00:43:47that she is at present

00:43:48a patient receiving

00:43:48psychiatric treatment

00:43:49in hospital.

00:43:51I see.

00:43:52And by the time

00:43:54the girls got back,

00:43:55had Mr. Geoffrey

00:43:56also returned

00:43:57to the hostel?

00:43:58Yes, he had.

00:43:59He got back about

00:43:59quarter...

00:44:00half past eleven.

00:44:02And did you have then

00:44:02a private conversation

00:44:03with him sometime

00:44:04about lunchtime?

00:44:05Yes, I did.

00:44:06And will you please

00:44:06tell us what

00:44:07the substance

00:44:07of that conversation

00:44:08was?

00:44:09He said he thought

00:44:10I should put the money

00:44:10back in the girls' room.

00:44:13Mrs. Martin James,

00:44:15I want to be

00:44:15quite clear about this.

00:44:17Are you saying

00:44:18by implication

00:44:19that you told

00:44:20Mr. Geoffrey

00:44:21you had taken the money?

00:44:22Yes, I am.

00:44:24What did he say?

00:44:25Well, he said

00:44:26as the girls knew

00:44:27my record,

00:44:28knew I'd been in prison

00:44:29and so on,

00:44:30that I should put

00:44:31the money back

00:44:32before they found out

00:44:32it was missing

00:44:33so there'd be no gossip.

00:44:34The girls can be

00:44:35very cruel sometimes.

00:44:37Now, the suggestion

00:44:38has been made

00:44:39that you were

00:44:39intending to use

00:44:40the money

00:44:41to pay off your debt

00:44:42to the manager

00:44:43of the off-licence,

00:44:44Mr. White,

00:44:44and that you phoned him

00:44:45on the Sunday afternoon

00:44:47and you told him

00:44:48that you'd had a stroke

00:44:49of luck

00:44:49and you'd be able

00:44:50to pay him back

00:44:51the next day.

00:44:52Yes, and that is

00:44:53completely untrue.

00:44:55What is?

00:44:56That that is what

00:44:56you said to him

00:44:57on the phone?

00:44:57No, that I ever

00:44:58made that phone call

00:44:59to him.

00:45:00Is he telling

00:45:01an untruth

00:45:02if he says

00:45:02that you did?

00:45:04All I am saying

00:45:05and do say

00:45:06is that I never

00:45:07made that phone call

00:45:08on the Sunday afternoon

00:45:09or at any other time

00:45:10on that day.

00:45:11For one thing,

00:45:11I was far too concerned

00:45:13with Linda

00:45:13who was on the roof

00:45:14trying to kill herself.

00:45:15I was trying to talk to her,

00:45:16get through to her

00:45:17for most of the afternoon.

00:45:18There were, in fact,

00:45:19several hours of,

00:45:20well, perhaps

00:45:21pandemonium

00:45:22is too strong a word

00:45:24but something very

00:45:24close to it.

00:45:26When your thoughts

00:45:27were entirely occupied

00:45:28with a suicidally

00:45:29threatening girl

00:45:30and very far from

00:45:31Mr. White

00:45:32and his threats.

00:45:33Yes, completely.

00:45:35And when I did

00:45:35make the phone call

00:45:36it wasn't to him.

00:45:37Who was it to?

00:45:38To the police station

00:45:39to ask if somebody

00:45:39could come and talk

00:45:40to Linda.

00:45:40And?

00:45:42Eventually,

00:45:42P.C. Ball arrived.

00:45:43That was sometime afterwards.

00:45:44And by then, in fact,

00:45:45Linda had been got down

00:45:46from the roof

00:45:47and it was all over.

00:45:48Yes, Mr. Jeffrey

00:45:49handled the situation

00:45:49completely.

00:45:51And when woman

00:45:52P.C. Ball came,

00:45:54unknown to you,

00:45:55she talked to Mary Carr

00:45:57and Patricia Donovan

00:45:58and then started

00:45:59to ask you

00:46:00about the missing money.

00:46:01Yes.

00:46:03And as far as

00:46:03I was concerned

00:46:04that was the absolute

00:46:05last straw

00:46:06in one of those

00:46:07terrible days

00:46:07of my life.

00:46:10Finally,

00:46:10Mrs. Martin-James,

00:46:12there's one matter

00:46:13remaining

00:46:13which we intend

00:46:14to be completely

00:46:15open about

00:46:16and that is

00:46:17your criminal record.

00:46:19How many times

00:46:20have you been in prison?

00:46:21Three times.

00:46:22How old were you

00:46:23the first time?

00:46:24Nineteen.

00:46:25How long a sentence

00:46:26did you receive?

00:46:27Three years.

00:46:28What was it for?

00:46:30Attacking my stepfather

00:46:31with a bread knife.

00:46:32What occasion,

00:46:33that?

00:46:34Why did you do it?

00:46:36He seduced me.

00:46:37And the second time

00:46:38you went to prison?

00:46:39I got mixed up

00:46:42with a married man.

00:46:44He stole some things

00:46:46and asked me

00:46:46to sell them for him.

00:46:48He was sent to prison

00:46:48for four years

00:46:49and I was given

00:46:5018 months.

00:46:51And the third occasion?

00:46:53Well,

00:46:54about six years ago

00:46:55I had a very serious

00:46:55drink problem.

00:46:57I fought someone's

00:46:58signature on a check

00:46:59to buy drink with

00:47:00and I was sent to prison

00:47:01for three years for it.

00:47:03Only in prison

00:47:04they did help me a lot.

00:47:05They did cure

00:47:06my drink problem for me.

00:47:07And am I right

00:47:09in saying,

00:47:09Mrs. Martin-James,

00:47:10that since you came

00:47:12out of prison

00:47:12three years ago

00:47:13you've never been

00:47:15in any trouble

00:47:16of any kind

00:47:17whatsoever?

00:47:18Yes.

00:47:19That is true.

00:47:21Yes.

00:47:22Thank you,

00:47:23Mrs. Martin-James.

00:47:23Is your name

00:47:33Stella Martin-James?

00:47:35Yes.

00:47:37Is that your real name?

00:47:39Yes.

00:47:40Is it?

00:47:43Well,

00:47:44is it?

00:47:44Is it?

00:47:44Yes.

00:47:53Join us again tomorrow

00:48:14when the case

00:48:15of the Queen

00:48:15against Martin-James

00:48:16will be concluded

00:48:17in the Crown Court.

00:48:19Stella Martin-James,

00:48:43the warden in charge

00:48:44of Greenhouse Probation

00:48:45Hostel for Girls,

00:48:46is accused of stealing

00:48:47£100 in cash

00:48:49belonging to Mary Carr

00:48:50and Patsy Donovan,

00:48:52two of the girls

00:48:52living in the hostel.

00:48:54She has pleaded

00:48:54not guilty

00:48:55and the defence

00:48:56has admitted

00:48:56that she herself

00:48:57has a criminal record

00:48:58and has been in prison.

00:49:01I'm...

00:49:02I'm terribly sorry.

00:49:04Please go on.

00:49:05There's no need

00:49:06to apologise,

00:49:07Mrs. Martin-James.

00:49:08We've plenty of time.

00:49:08Now,

00:49:09I asked you

00:49:11if Stella Martin-James

00:49:13was your real name.

00:49:15Yes.

00:49:16It is not, however,

00:49:17the only name

00:49:18by which you've been known,

00:49:19is it?

00:49:19No, it isn't.

00:49:21Would you care to tell us

00:49:22what some of the others are

00:49:23or were?

00:49:25I'm sorry,

00:49:26I don't recall.

00:49:27Well,

00:49:28Jean Warner,

00:49:30Margaret Ashley,

00:49:34Rosemary Graham Rogers,

00:49:36are these among the names

00:49:37by which you have been known

00:49:38in the past?

00:49:40They could have been.

00:49:41I'm afraid I don't remember.

00:49:43You don't remember.

00:49:44I see.

00:49:46Well,

00:49:46do you remember

00:49:47if by any chance

00:49:47they happen to be names

00:49:48under which

00:49:49certain convictions,

00:49:50apart from those

00:49:51about which we've heard,

00:49:52have been recorded against you?

00:49:54No,

00:49:55I don't.

00:49:57Well,

00:49:57what exactly is it

00:49:58that you're saying,

00:49:58then,

00:49:58that you've had

00:49:59so many different names

00:50:00and so many convictions

00:50:02that you can no longer remember

00:50:03which ones go with which?

00:50:04No,

00:50:04I'm not saying that at all,

00:50:06no.

00:50:06Well,

00:50:06then what is it

00:50:07that you are saying,

00:50:08Mrs. Martin-James?

00:50:09I'm sure the members

00:50:10of the jury

00:50:10are just as mystified

00:50:11as I am.

00:50:13The last time

00:50:14I was in prison,

00:50:15I completely accepted

00:50:16what I was,

00:50:18someone who lived

00:50:19a very wicked,

00:50:20dissolute life

00:50:21for years and years.

00:50:23Some of the convictions

00:50:24were for prostitution

00:50:26and some were due

00:50:27to the drinking problem.

00:50:28But some of the offences

00:50:29to which I am referring

00:50:30and for which you have

00:50:31convictions under other names

00:50:33are far more serious

00:50:34than those.

00:50:34I was going on

00:50:36to say yes.

00:50:37I accepted

00:50:38I'd have sunk

00:50:39as low as anyone could.

00:50:40I was totally

00:50:40beyond the pale

00:50:41and that prison sentence

00:50:42was the end of the line.

00:50:44I don't say

00:50:45that I saw it by myself,

00:50:46I didn't.

00:50:47I needed a lot of help

00:50:48by the prison staff

00:50:49but they succeeded.

00:50:50By the time I came out,

00:50:52they'd help me

00:50:52to put the past

00:50:53completely behind me.

00:50:54Oh,

00:50:55so you had some kind

00:50:56of conversion,

00:50:57did you?

00:50:58No.

00:50:59I had psychiatric treatment

00:51:00which included hypnosis

00:51:02and one of the effects

00:51:04of the hypnosis

00:51:04was that it helped

00:51:06to mix up some memories

00:51:07and wipe out others.

00:51:09Well,

00:51:10of course,

00:51:10if you're going to fall back

00:51:11on the,

00:51:12I can't remember

00:51:13because of the treatment

00:51:13I had,

00:51:14it's going to be very useful

00:51:15to you now,

00:51:16isn't it?

00:51:16My memory of everything

00:51:18since I came out

00:51:19is perfectly clear.

00:51:21Really?

00:51:21Well,

00:51:22I'm delighted to hear that,

00:51:23Mrs. Martin-James.

00:51:25Well then,

00:51:25let's see,

00:51:26shall we?

00:51:26Now,

00:51:26you said,

00:51:27for example,

00:51:27that it was Patsy Donovan

00:51:29to whom you suggested

00:51:29that you should

00:51:30look after the money.

00:51:32Yes.

00:51:33Why didn't you suggest

00:51:35it to Mary Carr?

00:51:36I wasn't at all

00:51:37on good terms with Mary.

00:51:39In this job,

00:51:40sometimes you get on

00:51:41at times with some girls

00:51:42and then,

00:51:44at other times,

00:51:45not at all.

00:51:46I,

00:51:47and then it's

00:51:48the other way around.

00:51:48It was quite trivial.

00:51:50Is there a safe

00:51:51in your office

00:51:52at the hostel?

00:51:53Yes,

00:51:53there is.

00:51:54Well,

00:51:54if as you claim,

00:51:55you're,

00:51:56main concern

00:51:57was the safety

00:51:58of the money,

00:51:59why didn't you

00:51:59put the money

00:51:59in the safe

00:52:00rather than

00:52:01in your dressing

00:52:01table drawer?

00:52:03In the previous

00:52:03six months,

00:52:04the safe

00:52:04had been opened

00:52:05four times

00:52:06by girls

00:52:06who had found

00:52:07the key.

00:52:08Oh,

00:52:08so it was customary

00:52:09to leave

00:52:09valuables lying

00:52:10around in drawers,

00:52:12was it?

00:52:12No one had

00:52:13many valuables

00:52:14as a rule.

00:52:14That's why

00:52:15the money

00:52:15was such a problem

00:52:16to know what

00:52:16to do about.

00:52:17Well,

00:52:17if,

00:52:18as you say,

00:52:18no one had

00:52:19any valuables

00:52:19as a rule,

00:52:20did it not come

00:52:21as a surprise

00:52:21to you that

00:52:22Mary Carr,

00:52:22as soon as she

00:52:23received a hundred

00:52:23pounds,

00:52:24promptly gave

00:52:24half of it away?

00:52:25No,

00:52:26and it wouldn't

00:52:26have surprised me

00:52:27if she'd wanted it

00:52:28back two days later

00:52:29either.

00:52:29That would have

00:52:30seemed quite

00:52:30natural too.

00:52:31Really?

00:52:33Well,

00:52:33Mrs. Martin-James,

00:52:34allow me to put

00:52:34something to you

00:52:35which I think

00:52:35is if not natural,

00:52:36then at least

00:52:37completely logical.

00:52:39You immediately

00:52:40began to think

00:52:41how you could lay

00:52:41your hands

00:52:42on that money.

00:52:43No.

00:52:45And then when

00:52:45the following day

00:52:46you had indeed

00:52:47laid your hands

00:52:48on it,

00:52:48you quite naturally

00:52:49telephoned to Mr. White

00:52:50to tell him

00:52:51you could pay him off.

00:52:52No.

00:52:53I repeat,

00:52:54I did not phone him.

00:52:55And then when

00:52:56the police constable

00:52:57began to question you,

00:52:58you owe,

00:52:59on your own admission,

00:53:00you lied.

00:53:00And you lied

00:53:01quite naturally

00:53:01because you'd stolen

00:53:02a hundred pounds.

00:53:03Now isn't that

00:53:03quite simply

00:53:04and truthfully

00:53:05what really happened?

00:53:06No.

00:53:08Why didn't you

00:53:09ask your assistant,

00:53:09Mr. Jeffrey,

00:53:10to come into the office

00:53:11and confirm to the

00:53:12policewoman

00:53:12that he knew

00:53:13that you'd taken

00:53:13the money?

00:53:15Well, I should have done.

00:53:18I don't know why

00:53:19I didn't.

00:53:19I just didn't think

00:53:20about it.

00:53:21Was it not in fact

00:53:22because he could not

00:53:22have confirmed it

00:53:23because for the

00:53:23simple reason

00:53:24that he did not

00:53:25know about it

00:53:25because you hadn't

00:53:26told him?

00:53:27I had.

00:53:28He's going to say

00:53:29so in evidence.

00:53:31Oh, is he?

00:53:35Mrs. Martin James.

00:53:42Mrs. Martin James,

00:53:43in your reply

00:53:45to my learned friend

00:53:46about your bad

00:53:48relationship with

00:53:49Mary Carr,

00:53:49you passed it off

00:53:50casually by saying

00:53:52it was trivial.

00:53:54Now, I'm going to

00:53:55ask you to be more

00:53:56explicit for your own

00:53:57good.

00:53:58The fact is that

00:53:59you'd had a serious

00:54:00row with Mary and

00:54:02two other girls the day

00:54:02before about some,

00:54:03well, tablets that

00:54:05you'd found in their

00:54:06possession.

00:54:07And you'd confiscated

00:54:08them and told them

00:54:10that if they ever

00:54:11brought such substances

00:54:13into the hostel again,

00:54:14you would have to

00:54:15report them.

00:54:16There was trouble

00:54:17of that kind, yes.

00:54:18And she and these

00:54:19other girls made

00:54:20remarks of a very

00:54:21threatening nature

00:54:22to you.

00:54:23Things like that

00:54:24I said quite often.

00:54:25It would be very

00:54:26silly of me to take

00:54:27them all seriously.

00:54:29Finally and briefly,

00:54:30Mrs. Martin James,

00:54:31you told my learned

00:54:32friend that during

00:54:33your last imprisonment

00:54:34you had undergone

00:54:36psychiatric treatment

00:54:37including hypnosis

00:54:38which had confused

00:54:40and sometimes wiped

00:54:41out certain things

00:54:42from your mind.

00:54:44If necessary,

00:54:46would you be willing

00:54:46to let the doctor

00:54:48who treated you

00:54:49be called in evidence?

00:54:51Oh, yes.

00:54:57Right.

00:54:58Thank you, Mrs. Martin James.

00:55:03I call Mr. John

00:55:04Jeffery, please.

00:55:06Mr. John

00:55:07Jeffery.

00:55:10Now, don't worry.

00:55:15No, no, no, my dear.

00:55:16No, no.

00:55:17Oh, piss off.

00:55:20And your position

00:55:20was what, Mr. Jeffery?

00:55:22I was at the hostel

00:55:23on a residential

00:55:23placement.

00:55:24And by last August,

00:55:25how long had you

00:55:26been there?

00:55:26About three months,

00:55:28just a bit more.

00:55:29Do you remember

00:55:29the events at the hostel

00:55:31on Saturday and Sunday,

00:55:32August the 15th and 16th,

00:55:33last?

00:55:33Well, only those

00:55:34of the Sunday.

00:55:35I didn't arrive

00:55:36back there until then.

00:55:37Quite so.

00:55:38What time was that?

00:55:39About lunchtime.

00:55:41No, earlier.

00:55:42About 12 o'clock.

00:55:43When you got there,

00:55:44what sort of state

00:55:45did you find

00:55:46Mrs. Martin James in?

00:55:47Well, she was

00:55:48very nervous,

00:55:49very shaky,

00:55:50upset.

00:55:51Did you know

00:55:52what about?

00:55:52Well, not at first,

00:55:53no.

00:55:54I thought she'd been

00:55:56taking too many pills

00:55:57and drinking

00:55:57too much again.

00:55:58Well, will you

00:55:59tell us

00:55:59what transpired?

00:56:01She said

00:56:01could we go

00:56:01down the road

00:56:02to the pub

00:56:03for a drink

00:56:04and a private chat?

00:56:05And did you?

00:56:05Well, I'm not

00:56:06one for pubs much,

00:56:07so we had the chat,

00:56:08such as it was,

00:56:09in her office.

00:56:10Will you tell us

00:56:11the gist of it?

00:56:12It was very short.

00:56:14She suddenly blurted

00:56:15out she'd taken

00:56:15some cash

00:56:16from two of the girls.

00:56:17I told her

00:56:18she was a bloody

00:56:18half-wit

00:56:19and she'd get it

00:56:20put back

00:56:20as quick as she could.

00:56:22Mr. Geoffrey,

00:56:23I'm going to ask

00:56:23you to repeat

00:56:24that because

00:56:25it's vitally important.

00:56:26Mrs. Martin James

00:56:28told you explicitly

00:56:29she'd taken money

00:56:30from two of the girls

00:56:32without them knowing it?

00:56:33Yes.

00:56:34And you advised her

00:56:35to put it back

00:56:35as quickly as possible

00:56:37before they found it?

00:56:38Yes.

00:56:40Thank you,

00:56:40Mr. Geoffrey.

00:56:43Mr. Geoffrey,

00:56:44how old are you?

00:56:45I'm 27.

00:56:46Are you a qualified

00:56:47and experienced

00:56:48social worker?

00:56:49No, no,

00:56:50I'm still a trainee.

00:56:52Have you had

00:56:52much experience

00:56:53of many people

00:56:54like Mrs. Martin James?

00:56:55I'm sorry,

00:56:57but what the hell

00:56:57is that supposed to mean?

00:56:58Yes, I was thinking

00:56:59of asking you that myself,

00:57:01Mr. Ingrams,

00:57:02though of course

00:57:02I might have worded it differently.

00:57:04Well, I deliberately

00:57:05put the question

00:57:05so unspecifically,

00:57:07Your Honour,

00:57:07in order to discover

00:57:08what response

00:57:09it might elicit.

00:57:10However,

00:57:11I will put it

00:57:11more precisely.

00:57:13Mr. Geoffrey,

00:57:13in your training

00:57:15so far,

00:57:16or indeed

00:57:17in your daily life

00:57:17so far,

00:57:19have you met

00:57:20many people

00:57:20who have,

00:57:21well,

00:57:22been in prison?

00:57:23No,

00:57:24that's why

00:57:25I was sent

00:57:25to a probation hostel,

00:57:27to get experience

00:57:27of work

00:57:28with delinquents.

00:57:29Well,

00:57:29let me put

00:57:30something else

00:57:30to you then,

00:57:31Mr. Geoffrey.

00:57:32A young

00:57:32and inexperienced

00:57:33social worker

00:57:34you may be,

00:57:35but at 27

00:57:35I'm quite sure

00:57:36not a totally

00:57:37inexperienced

00:57:38and innocent

00:57:39young man.

00:57:41Have you

00:57:42met many women,

00:57:44just women,

00:57:45like Mrs. Martin James?

00:57:47I'm sorry,

00:57:48I don't get it.

00:57:49Well,

00:57:49then I'll be more

00:57:50specific,

00:57:50Mr. Geoffrey.

00:57:50In fact,

00:57:51I'll be quite specific.

00:57:52We've heard a great deal

00:57:53about Mrs. Martin James'

00:57:54sexual relationships

00:57:55with men.

00:57:56Have you been to bed

00:57:57with her?

00:57:58No.

00:57:59Has she ever

00:57:59offered to go

00:58:00to bed with you?

00:58:01No.

00:58:02Have you ever

00:58:02asked her to?

00:58:04No.

00:58:05And you,

00:58:06a man,

00:58:08resident in a hostel?

00:58:10Come now,

00:58:11Mr. Geoffrey,

00:58:12hmm?

00:58:13No,

00:58:13I'm not interested.

00:58:14You see,

00:58:15I'm gay.

00:58:16Ah.

00:58:17Yes,

00:58:18I see.

00:58:19Thank you,

00:58:20Mr. Geoffrey.

00:58:20I've no further

00:58:22questions,

00:58:23thank you.

00:58:23No.

00:58:24Thank you,

00:58:25Mr. Geoffrey.

00:58:27Silence!

00:58:28Call Barbara Evans,

00:58:29please.

00:58:33And how long

00:58:34have you been

00:58:35at Greenhouse

00:58:35Hostel,

00:58:36Barbara?

00:58:36A year

00:58:37and a bit.

00:58:38Long enough

00:58:38to be on the

00:58:39strength,

00:58:40right?

00:58:40I'm sorry,

00:58:41did you say

00:58:41on the strength?

00:58:43Yeah,

00:58:44you know,

00:58:45one of the

00:58:45greenhouse girls.

00:58:46Oh,

00:58:47I see.

00:58:47Thank you,

00:58:48Barbara.

00:58:48Now.

00:58:49They call me

00:58:50Dumbo.

00:58:52Well,

00:58:52however,

00:58:53leaving that

00:58:53aside for the

00:58:54moment,

00:58:54I want to ask

00:58:56you if you

00:58:57remember Saturday

00:58:58and Sunday,

00:58:59August the 15th

00:59:00and 16th last.

00:59:01Yeah,

00:59:02well,

00:59:02that's all this

00:59:03is about,

00:59:04isn't it?

00:59:04Quite.

00:59:05Now,

00:59:06on Sunday

00:59:07afternoon at

00:59:07around three

00:59:08o'clock,

00:59:09do you remember

00:59:10where you were?

00:59:11In the garden,

00:59:13sunbathing.

00:59:14Yeah,

00:59:14wearing this

00:59:15all,

00:59:15we've no back

00:59:16to it,

00:59:16and this big

00:59:17deep V in the

00:59:17front that

00:59:18really shows

00:59:18off my nice

00:59:19boobs.

00:59:20Just a minute,

00:59:21Barbara.

00:59:21Your Honour,

00:59:22I hope my

00:59:23learned friend

00:59:24will accept

00:59:25that I'm not

00:59:25trying to

00:59:26lead the

00:59:26witness.

00:59:29Now,

00:59:30Barbara,

00:59:31on that

00:59:31Sunday afternoon

00:59:32when you

00:59:32were,

00:59:33as you say,

00:59:35in the garden

00:59:36sunbathing at

00:59:36around three

00:59:37o'clock,

00:59:38did you

00:59:39overhear someone

00:59:40in the house

00:59:41speaking on

00:59:42the telephone?

00:59:42She was

00:59:44talking to

00:59:44old Whitey

00:59:45who's got

00:59:45the beer

00:59:45shop,

00:59:46yeah.

00:59:46What made

00:59:47you sure

00:59:47it was

00:59:48Mr. White

00:59:48who was

00:59:49being spoken

00:59:49to?

00:59:50She said,

00:59:51hello,

00:59:52Roy,

00:59:52is that

00:59:52you?

00:59:53And did

00:59:54you hear

00:59:54anything

00:59:54else said?

00:59:56No.

00:59:57I wanted

00:59:57to get

00:59:57round the

00:59:58side at

00:59:58the back

00:59:58to see

00:59:59if Linda

00:59:59was going

00:59:59to jump.

01:00:00Now,

01:00:00just answer

01:00:01this question

01:00:01yes or

01:00:02no,

01:00:02please.

01:00:03Did you

01:00:04see who

01:00:05it was

01:00:05on the

01:00:06phone?

01:00:07No,

01:00:08of course

01:00:08not.

01:00:09How could

01:00:09I?

01:00:10I was in

01:00:10the garden

01:00:11behind this

01:00:11big old brick

01:00:12thing and

01:00:12I wanted

01:00:13to...

01:00:13Thank you,

01:00:13Barbara.

01:00:14That's

01:00:14all.

01:00:17Barbara,

01:00:18this, uh,

01:00:19this person

01:00:20who you

01:00:20overheard

01:00:21making the

01:00:21phone call,

01:00:23now,

01:00:23you didn't

01:00:24see who

01:00:24it was.

01:00:25Did you

01:00:26perhaps

01:00:26recognize

01:00:27the voice?

01:00:30No.

01:00:31Of course

01:00:32not,

01:00:32no.

01:00:33So,

01:00:34in fact,

01:00:34it could

01:00:35have been

01:00:35Mrs.

01:00:35Martin

01:00:36James.

01:00:37Oh,

01:00:38yeah.

01:00:39Could

01:00:40have been,

01:00:40yeah.

01:00:40thank you

01:00:42very much

01:00:42indeed,

01:00:43Barbara.

01:00:56Mr.

01:00:56Jackson,

01:00:57exactly

01:00:58when and

01:00:58how did

01:00:59you meet

01:00:59Mrs.

01:01:00Martin

01:01:00James?

01:01:01Well,

01:01:01let me see,

01:01:01it must

01:01:02be, uh,

01:01:03three years

01:01:04by now,

01:01:05just shortly

01:01:06before she

01:01:06was due to

01:01:07be discharged

01:01:07from prison.

01:01:09Prison

01:01:09welfare people

01:01:10often approach

01:01:10our society,

01:01:11you see,

01:01:12asking if we

01:01:12can assist

01:01:13in finding jobs

01:01:14and accommodation

01:01:14for people.

01:01:16And as secretary

01:01:16of the society,

01:01:17I went to see her

01:01:17and have a chat

01:01:18to judge whether

01:01:20she was serious

01:01:20about wanting

01:01:21to go straight.

01:01:21And you found

01:01:22her a job

01:01:22and accommodation?

01:01:23Hmm?

01:01:24I'm happy to say

01:01:25I was able to be

01:01:26of assistance

01:01:26in both those

01:01:27respects, yes.

01:01:28The job you

01:01:29found her,

01:01:29was that as

01:01:29warden of the

01:01:30girls' probation

01:01:31hostel?

01:01:31Oh, no,

01:01:32no,

01:01:32not then,

01:01:32not straight away,

01:01:33no, no,

01:01:33she had to

01:01:35prove herself

01:01:36first before

01:01:36that.

01:01:37In what way?

01:01:38Being prepared

01:01:39to put up

01:01:41with living

01:01:41in a very modest

01:01:42little bedsitter,

01:01:44roll up her

01:01:44sleeves and earn

01:01:45honest living,

01:01:47show she was

01:01:47really determined

01:01:48to make a go

01:01:48of it.

01:01:49Which she did,

01:01:50you say?

01:01:50She did indeed,

01:01:52for a whole year.

01:01:53Doing what

01:01:54sort of thing?

01:01:55First of all,

01:01:56she took a pose

01:01:57as a children's

01:01:57nanny to some

01:01:58friends of mine

01:01:58for a while,

01:02:00then she came

01:02:02to our house

01:02:02to my wife

01:02:03for a couple

01:02:03of months

01:02:03when she was

01:02:04convalescing

01:02:05after an operation.

01:02:07And then,

01:02:08oh yes,

01:02:10that's it,

01:02:11she went on

01:02:11a cruise to

01:02:12the Canaries

01:02:12as a companion

01:02:14to an elderly

01:02:14widow,

01:02:15the mother of

01:02:16an acquaintance

01:02:16of mine,

01:02:16in fact.

01:02:17So it was

01:02:18after a year

01:02:19that she applied

01:02:20for and got

01:02:21the job at

01:02:21the hostel?

01:02:22She did indeed,

01:02:22yes.

01:02:24And I believe

01:02:25you yourself

01:02:26gave her the

01:02:27confidence to

01:02:27put in for it.

01:02:28Well.

01:02:33Mr. Jackson,

01:02:34would you be so

01:02:35kind as to make

01:02:35something clear to me?

01:02:36Gladly if I can,

01:02:37sir, yes.

01:02:37Your position

01:02:38as secretary

01:02:39of this charity,

01:02:40this society,

01:02:41which is partly

01:02:43responsible,

01:02:43among its other

01:02:44very good works,

01:02:45for the running

01:02:46of Greenhouse

01:02:47Hostel.

01:02:47Now,

01:02:48is that a,

01:02:50I mean,

01:02:50are you a paid

01:02:51official?

01:02:51Is that your job?

01:02:52No, sir.

01:02:53All of us who work

01:02:54for it give our

01:02:54services voluntarily.

01:02:56Although,

01:02:56to be frank,

01:02:57as secretary,

01:02:58I do receive

01:02:59a small honorarium

01:03:00of some

01:03:00ninety-four pounds

01:03:01per annum.

01:03:01I see.

01:03:03So then,

01:03:03what is your

01:03:04occupation?

01:03:05I'm in the field

01:03:05of property,

01:03:06sir.

01:03:06In what way?

01:03:07Building it?

01:03:08Buying it?

01:03:09Selling it?

01:03:09What?

01:03:10Buying,

01:03:11renovating,

01:03:12redecorating,

01:03:13converting,

01:03:13and so on,

01:03:13and so on.

01:03:14And letting?

01:03:15Yes,

01:03:16that is part of it,

01:03:16yes.

01:03:17Why are you so

01:03:18reticent about it,

01:03:19Mr. Jackson?

01:03:20There's nothing

01:03:20improper about it,

01:03:22I hope?

01:03:22No, sir.

01:03:23No,

01:03:23most certainly not.

01:03:24Tell me,

01:03:25when Mrs. Martin James

01:03:26last came out

01:03:27of prison,

01:03:28now the modest

01:03:29little bedsitter

01:03:30she went to live in,

01:03:31was that one

01:03:32of your properties?

01:03:33Yes, sir.

01:03:34I believe if my memory

01:03:35serves me all right,

01:03:36I believe it was so,

01:03:37yes.

01:03:37Does your memory

01:03:38serve you sufficiently

01:03:39for you to recall

01:03:40what rent you charged her?

01:03:42As I believe

01:03:43I've said, sir,

01:03:44our society's policy

01:03:45is to help

01:03:46where we can

01:03:46in what we're convinced

01:03:48are genuinely

01:03:49deserving cases.

01:03:50Mr. Jackson,

01:03:50are you telling us

01:03:51that the society

01:03:52paid you

01:03:52for the rent

01:03:53of the room?

01:03:54No, sir.

01:03:54No, most certainly not.

01:03:55Then would you kindly

01:03:56tell us what it is

01:03:57that you are saying?

01:03:59Because I'm a member

01:04:00of our society,

01:04:02I regard myself

01:04:03as having a moral duty

01:04:04to help others

01:04:04less fortunate.

01:04:05Just give me

01:04:06a plain answer,

01:04:07please, Mr. Jackson,

01:04:07you did not charge

01:04:08her any rent.

01:04:09Yes, sir,

01:04:10that is so.

01:04:10You gave her

01:04:11rent-free accommodation.

01:04:13Now, doubtless,

01:04:14you were also responsible

01:04:15for helping her

01:04:16to get employment

01:04:17as a children's nanny

01:04:18with your friends.

01:04:19And then she came

01:04:20to your home

01:04:21and looked after

01:04:22your wife

01:04:22for two months.

01:04:23for which she was

01:04:24generously paid.

01:04:25Oh, I don't doubt

01:04:26that for one moment,

01:04:27Mr. Jackson.

01:04:29And then you

01:04:29subsequently helped her

01:04:31to get the post

01:04:31at Greenhouse.

01:04:33Now, I'm not doubting

01:04:34what you did for her.

01:04:37What I should very much

01:04:38like to discover

01:04:38is what,

01:04:39in return,

01:04:40she did for you.

01:04:41Your Honor,

01:04:42I really do protest

01:04:43at the inference

01:04:44behind this line

01:04:45of questioning.

01:04:46Oh?

01:04:47Why, what is the inference?

01:04:48Your Honor,

01:04:50if I may just say so,

01:04:51I'm not in the least

01:04:54put out by it.

01:04:55I'm grateful

01:04:56for the young lady's

01:04:57efforts on my behalf,

01:04:58but I do know

01:04:59what he's suggesting,

01:05:00and I would be happy

01:05:02to have the opportunity

01:05:02of answering

01:05:03his insinuations.

01:05:05Mr. Bean?

01:05:06You're suggesting,

01:05:11I believe, sir,

01:05:11that I've been having

01:05:12some kind of love affair

01:05:13with Mrs. Martin James.

01:05:15If you'll pardon

01:05:16my saying so,

01:05:18that is not only

01:05:19a cheap and easy

01:05:20innuendo to make,

01:05:21but one which

01:05:22anyone involved,

01:05:23as I am,

01:05:24in charitable work

01:05:25with the opposite sex

01:05:26frequently has to put up with.

01:05:30Well, sir,

01:05:31there's no truth in it.

01:05:35None, whatever.

01:05:36In fact,

01:05:39my lady wife,

01:05:39who happens to be

01:05:40sitting there

01:05:40in this courtroom

01:05:41at this very moment,

01:05:43would be happy,

01:05:43I'm sure,

01:05:44to step forward

01:05:45and confirm

01:05:46that she's never had

01:05:47one moment's anxiety

01:05:48from me on that score.

01:05:53Thank you,

01:05:54Mr. Jackson.

01:05:56Mr. Bean?

01:05:57Yeah.

01:05:58Right,

01:05:58you may leave

01:05:59the witness box,

01:05:59Mr. Jackson.

01:06:02That is the defense's case,

01:06:03Your Honor.

01:06:04Members of the jury,

01:06:14did the accused steal,

01:06:16or did she not steal,

01:06:18the sum of £100 in cash

01:06:20from Mary Carr

01:06:21and Patricia Dunham?

01:06:23Well,

01:06:24she certainly took the money

01:06:25and concealed it

01:06:26among her own

01:06:27personal possessions.

01:06:28There has been,

01:06:28and can be,

01:06:29no argument about that.

01:06:30So,

01:06:32this case is not so much

01:06:33about what she did

01:06:34as why she did it.

01:06:38Now,

01:06:38the prosecution witness,

01:06:39Mr. White,

01:06:40told you that the accused

01:06:41owed him money,

01:06:42a sum not far short

01:06:43of exactly £100,

01:06:45in fact.

01:06:46And it was from the defense,

01:06:47not from the prosecution,

01:06:49that you heard

01:06:50what a perilous position

01:06:51that placed him in

01:06:52vis-à-vis his own employers,

01:06:54who would have

01:06:54instantly dismissed him

01:06:55if that situation

01:06:57had come to light.

01:06:59I should like you

01:07:00to consider this.

01:07:02The responsibility

01:07:03for the running

01:07:04of Greenhouse Hostel

01:07:05is divided between

01:07:06the Probation Service,

01:07:08the Social Services Department

01:07:09of the local authority,

01:07:11and the charity,

01:07:12of which Mr. Jackson

01:07:14is the secretary.

01:07:15Now,

01:07:15I wonder,

01:07:16members of the jury,

01:07:17if you wondered,

01:07:18as I did,

01:07:19why it was

01:07:20that throughout

01:07:20the course of this trial,

01:07:22no one has appeared

01:07:23to speak on behalf

01:07:24of the accused

01:07:25from two

01:07:26out of those three

01:07:28very responsible authorities.

01:07:31But in the end,

01:07:32it still comes back,

01:07:33does it not,

01:07:34to the simple question

01:07:35of whom you are

01:07:36going to believe.

01:07:38The prosecution

01:07:38and their witnesses,

01:07:40the defense

01:07:40and theirs,

01:07:41and centrally,

01:07:42and most of all,

01:07:43the accused herself.

01:07:47Well,

01:07:47members of the jury,

01:07:48we know

01:07:48that on occasions

01:07:49the accused has lied.

01:07:51Indeed,

01:07:52she has confessed

01:07:52to lying not once,

01:07:54but no less than five times

01:07:55when she was being

01:07:56interviewed by the police officer.

01:07:59And I'm sure

01:08:00that you will remember

01:08:00that she also lied,

01:08:02or something very close to it,

01:08:04when she was answering

01:08:05my questions

01:08:06about her various

01:08:07former names

01:08:08and previous convictions

01:08:10under those various names.

01:08:13Can you honestly believe

01:08:16one single word

01:08:17that she has said?

01:08:17Is the truth

01:08:21not most likely to be

01:08:23that which the prosecution

01:08:25has maintained throughout?

01:08:28That Mrs. Martin James

01:08:29took that money,

01:08:30she stole that money,

01:08:31in order to pay off

01:08:33her debt

01:08:33to Mr. White?

01:08:35members of the jury.

01:08:44My learned friend

01:08:45has said

01:08:46the choice lies

01:08:47between

01:08:47the prosecution's witnesses,

01:08:50the defense's witnesses,

01:08:51and,

01:08:52and I hope

01:08:53I noted it down correctly

01:08:55and I'm not

01:08:55misquoting him,

01:08:57centrally,

01:08:58and most of all,

01:08:59the accused herself.

01:09:01Well, members of the jury,

01:09:04I shall be very content

01:09:06if you arrive

01:09:07at a verdict

01:09:08based on that judgment.

01:09:11Can you believe,

01:09:13my learned friend

01:09:13has asked you,

01:09:14one single word she says?

01:09:17Well, surely there can only be

01:09:18one answer to that question,

01:09:20yes,

01:09:20for has she not been

01:09:22most patently,

01:09:23not to say,

01:09:24painfully honest

01:09:26in everything

01:09:27she has said about herself,

01:09:28that she has been in prison,

01:09:31that she was an alcoholic

01:09:33or something very close to it,

01:09:34that she has had to have

01:09:35psychiatric treatment,

01:09:37that she was something

01:09:37akin to a prostitute,

01:09:39that,

01:09:40to use her own words,

01:09:42she had led

01:09:42a wicked

01:09:43and dissolute life

01:09:44and had been considered

01:09:46to be totally

01:09:47beyond the pale.

01:09:51I will tell you

01:09:52quite frankly,

01:09:54she expects

01:09:55to be found guilty.

01:09:56she doesn't expect

01:09:59you to believe her.

01:10:01She was weak,

01:10:03she was foolish,

01:10:04stupid even,

01:10:05but the one thing

01:10:06she did,

01:10:08which I'm sure

01:10:09you will not forget,

01:10:10however foolish

01:10:11and misguided

01:10:12it was,

01:10:13the one thing

01:10:14she did,

01:10:15members of the jury,

01:10:17was to tell

01:10:18her assistant,

01:10:19Mr. Geoffrey,

01:10:20that she had taken

01:10:21the money

01:10:21from the girl's room.

01:10:22Now,

01:10:25do you honestly believe

01:10:26that if she had intended

01:10:28to steal

01:10:29and keep

01:10:30that money,

01:10:30she would conceivably

01:10:32have done that?

01:10:35Is this woman

01:10:36against whom

01:10:38no other allegation

01:10:39has been made

01:10:40in two years

01:10:41but this one,

01:10:42and this is based

01:10:43solely on

01:10:44the evidence

01:10:45of two girls

01:10:46who themselves

01:10:47have conviction

01:10:48for crime,

01:10:48is this woman

01:10:51never to be

01:10:52allowed back

01:10:53into society

01:10:54no matter

01:10:55how hard

01:10:56she works

01:10:56to achieve it?

01:11:00Members of the jury,

01:11:01it is with confidence

01:11:02that I leave

01:11:03the answer

01:11:03to that question

01:11:04to you.

01:11:08Members of the jury,

01:11:09it is now your task

01:11:11to arrive at your verdict.

01:11:13Well, I'm sure

01:11:14that your common sense

01:11:15will help you

01:11:15a great deal

01:11:16in deciding

01:11:16whom you are going

01:11:17to believe.

01:11:18And you may find

01:11:19perhaps in this

01:11:20sort of situation

01:11:21that you can

01:11:22more confidently

01:11:23give weight

01:11:24to what was said

01:11:25by those

01:11:25who have nothing

01:11:27to gain or lose

01:11:28than by what was said

01:11:29by those who stand

01:11:30to lose the most.

01:11:32Well, now,

01:11:33in this particular instance,

01:11:35the only people

01:11:36of whom it can be said

01:11:37that they have nothing

01:11:38to lose are,

01:11:39are they not,

01:11:40the police.

01:11:42Now, how was it

01:11:43that the accused

01:11:45gave so many

01:11:46different explanations

01:11:48to the policewoman?

01:11:50And why did she not,

01:11:52as has been suggested,

01:11:53call in her assistant

01:11:54to help her

01:11:54when she was

01:11:55in such a desperate situation?

01:11:59Now, members of the jury,

01:12:00these are just matters

01:12:01to which I draw

01:12:01your attention,

01:12:02and you can give them

01:12:03whatever weight

01:12:03you consider they are worth,

01:12:05and no more.

01:12:07Now, I'll recapitulate

01:12:08the other facts for you,

01:12:09and then,

01:12:10will you please retire,

01:12:11elect a foreman

01:12:12to speak for you

01:12:13and consider your verdict.

01:12:19The prisoner will stand.

01:12:26Members of the jury,

01:12:27will your foreman

01:12:28please stand?

01:12:30Please answer this question,

01:12:31yes or no.

01:12:32Have you reached a verdict

01:12:33on which you're all agreed?

01:12:35Yes.

01:12:36On the first count,

01:12:37stealing the sum

01:12:38of 50 pounds in cash

01:12:40belonging to Mary Elizabeth Carr,

01:12:42do you find the accused,

01:12:43Stella Martin James,

01:12:45guilty or not guilty?

01:12:46Not guilty.

01:12:48And on the second count,

01:12:49stealing the sum

01:12:50of 50 pounds in cash

01:12:51belonging to

01:12:52Patricia Margaret Donovan,

01:12:54do you find the accused,

01:12:55Stella Martin James,

01:12:56also guilty or not guilty?

01:12:58Not guilty.

01:13:00Mrs. Martin James,

01:13:01you are free to go.

01:13:10Huh?

01:13:20Oh,

01:13:20ah,

01:13:22no,

01:13:31no,

01:13:34no,

01:13:36no,

01:13:36no.

Crown Court - The Green House Girls (1978)

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