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This episode of India First examines the acquittal of all seven accused, including Lieutenant Colonel Shrikant Prasad Purohit and Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur, in the 2008 Malegaon blast case, citing lack of evidence by investigative agencies.
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00:00Good evening, the 10 Pakistani terrorists who attacked Mumbai during 26-11 terror attacks,
00:06that was the year 2008, including Ajmal Amir Kassab, they had fake Hindu identity cards
00:11with Hindu names and they'd all tied a kalaba around their wrists, that sacred Hindu thread
00:16that Lashkar-e-Thaiwad terrorist David Coleman Headley had bought from the Siddhi Vinayak temple.
00:21An attempt was made that time in 2008 to pass off 26-11 as Hindu terror or Saffron terror.
00:27And that had been known for quite some time, spreading this bogey of Hindu terror.
00:34Today, a special NIA court acquitted all seven accused in the Malegao blast case,
00:39including Colonel Prasad Srikant Porohit and Savi Pragya Singh Thakur, seven of them.
00:45But all those who equated Hindu or Saffron with terror, will they be ever brought to justice?
00:57Seventeen years of the Saffron terror take.
01:12Malegao verdict busts the bogey.
01:13Malegao verdict busts the bogey.
01:19Malegao verdict busts the bogey.
01:26All seven accused now acquitted.
01:29The BGP demands a Congress apology.
01:36Raul Ghoudi did the American Revolution to the Saffron terror.
01:37Rajput Timoti told Mara take it into the statement of the Hindu terror is more deadly than Lashkar-e-Thaiwad.
01:44The BGP demands a Congress apology.
02:14Congress makes a U-turn over saffron terror.
02:30Saffron terror narrative is now nixed and it's a big focus on India first.
02:35So a bright young military intelligence officer who'd actually trained Maharashtra police officers in counter-intelligence operations was arrested by them and implicated in the Malegaon blast case.
02:50He was tortured in jail for nine long years. A bright young army officer. His military career was finished. Worse, he was assaulted in jail at times kept with the same people he had helped get arrested.
03:04Another nine years in jail was spent by Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur. The court found evidence against them lacking.
03:12The probe agencies claimed that the army officer got RDX from Kashmir, but that was just a claim not backed by any corroborative evidence.
03:20And this isn't the only case. Remember, on the 1st of July in 2009, the United States Department of Treasury and the United Nations Security Council's 1267 Sanctions Committee had designated Arif Kasmani as a person involved in terrorism in India, citing his role in funding the Samjhauta Express bombing.
03:41Among, of course, other terror activities in India. The U.S. charge sheet in 2009 specifically accused Kashmani and Lashkar-e-Taiba of funding the Samjhauta blast case.
03:53But in India, probe agency said this was Hindu terror. So a Pakistani terrorist was let off and Hindus were booked for Samjhauta blast case.
04:03Why? Was there a bigger game plan at play? The BJP now says the Congress party must apologise to the nation.
04:12RVS Mani, then an under-secretary in the Ministry of Home Affairs, and Ujwal Nikam, Member of Parliament Rajasabha, and former senior public prosecutor during the 2611 Mumbai terror case.
04:23Both of them joined me. We will talk to them about what was happening that time. We'll get you an insider account.
04:29I'm Gaurav Savanth. As always, let's get started with the headlines on India First.
04:38A day after a 25% tariff plus penalty for India, Donald Trump calls India's economy dead.
04:46Commerce Minister Piyush Goyal makes a statement on Trump tariff in Parliament, says India's priority is securing the welfare of farmers, small businesses and exporters.
05:04Say India is on our way to becoming the third largest economy in a few years.
05:14Rahul Gandhi backs Trump's Indian economy dead.
05:19Comment says Indian economy is dead.
05:22Rahul Gandhi claims Narendra Modi has killed the Indian economy.
05:25Intense war of words over 2008 Malagao blast.
05:35BJP hits out at the Congress over the term Saffron Terror.
05:38Maharashtra Chief Minister says Congress must apologize.
05:42Rahul Gandhi evades direct questions, says it's a bid to divert attention from real issues.
05:48Talit Techie hacked to death in Tamil Nadu, DMK MP, meets Kevin's family, lured and killed allegedly by the girlfriend's brother.
06:02Kevin's Kim blame the girlfriend's family, parents of the lady taken into custody.
06:09A special court in Maharashtra today acquitted former BJP MP Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur and a serving Indian Army officer Colonel Prasad Shrikant Porohit along with five other accused in the 2008 Malagao blast case.
06:30The court came down heavily on the investigating agencies for not being able to put together a cogent case.
06:38They weren't able to stitch evidence together.
06:40Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur broke down in court.
06:43She recounted nine years of torture in custody.
06:47The BJP has come down heavily on the Congress, demanding an apology from the Congress Party, from Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi for tarnishing the image of an entire community and coining the term Saffron Terror.
07:01We get you more in this report.
07:08Malagao, a blast that killed Sikhs and injured nearly a hundred.
07:2017 years on, no convictions.
07:26The wounds of 2008 ripped open once again.
07:30As a fresh political storm brews over the verdict.
07:38Moments after the historic NIA court verdict, a visibly emotional Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur stepped out.
07:45Teary-eyed, carrying the weight of a long-awaited vindication, saying Saffron has won.
07:51Hindutva has won.
07:53A narrative, they say, has finally unraveled.
07:59As UP Chief Minister Yogi Aditya Nath put it, Satyamayav Jaiti.
08:04The
08:04The
08:05The
08:08The
08:09The
08:12The
08:16The
08:21The
08:23Why have you said It is the power of Hindu??
08:37Which power you called used from ?
08:41That's why Atangwadi is called Atangwadi, we don't say anything about religion, but it doesn't mean that there's no one in this religion.
08:50But the Hindu cannot be an Atangwadi, this is going to be done.
08:52I don't believe it.
08:58But the opposition did not hold back.
09:00AIMIM chief Asad Udin Oesi called the verdict a betrayal of justice, alleging that the investigation was deliberately weakened.
09:11And the third thing, remember that if the bomb was on the RDS, military grade, and NIA said that it was not in it.
09:25In Mumbai, the blast was in 1991, there was a car called the van, which didn't drive.
09:36It gave us a conviction.
09:38That's what we didn't understand.
09:41Several Congress leaders joined the political crossfire, launching sharp attacks and bowing to challenge the verdict in the High Court.
10:11Even before the verdict was out, echoes of the saffron terror bogey were heard in the Rajasabha a day earlier.
10:22Malagao reached the Rajasabha, where Union Minister Amit Shah reaffirmed that the saffron terror narrative was nothing but political fiction.
10:30The attack of Bombay after the attack of Bombay, they have said that the RSS didn't do it.
10:42What are they saying? Who are they saying? Who are they saying? Who are they saying? What do they want to say?
10:49But who left the Hindu terror of the Hindu terror?
10:5117 years on, Malagao's wounds haven't healed as we still don't know who bombed the town.
11:11But the politics around it is nowhere near done as well.
11:18Bureau Report, India Today.
11:21Saffron terror. Hindu terror. How did this terminology come in the first place?
11:30Let me now try and get you an insider account.
11:33Someone who was in the corridors of power during the UPA era.
11:37RVS Money joins me on this broadcast.
11:39Also with me is former senior public prosecutor and member of parliament Rajasabha joining us on the show, Ujwal Nikam.
11:47But let me bring in RVS Money first into this broadcast.
11:50Mr. Money, who was former undersecretary in the Ministry of Home Affairs.
11:54He was there between 2006 and 2010.
11:56He is also the author of the book,
11:59The Myth of Hindu Terror, Insider Account of the Ministry of Home Affairs.
12:04Mr. Money, welcome.
12:07Sir, you were an insider in the Ministry of Home Affairs.
12:10And some affidavits on counter-terror operations, including the Ishra Jahan case, bear your signature.
12:17Why do you say Hindu terror is a myth?
12:20And does the verdict today actually vindicate your stance, sir?
12:24Two words, Sathya Meva Jayate.
12:29It is enshrined in our national emblem.
12:33Today it has been validated by the courts that any baseless evidence-starved narrative being pumped will be dismissed by the court.
12:48Okay, they may take time because of various reasons.
12:52The procedures of the court, the pressure of the court.
12:54But certainly the truth, treat prevents, truth wins.
12:58That's what he may take on this.
13:00Very simply.
13:00Okay.
13:01Okay.
13:02Mr. Money, specifically on the aspect of Saffron Terror or Hindu Terror,
13:06why as an insider of North Block during some of the years in the UPA era,
13:14are you of the opinion that this Hindu terror is a myth?
13:18What were your impressions?
13:19How was this floated, sir?
13:25There was never any saffron terror.
13:27There was certainly a concerted effort.
13:29See, what happened in the Samjata Blas case,
13:33it was a very unique case where our friend Arif Kasmani,
13:38who executed the attack,
13:40a Pakistani organized crime syndicate head,
13:44who had been outsourced the work by the ISI,
13:46he claimed that we have done this attack,
13:51whereas the Indian government was saying,
13:53no, it is a Hindu terror, our boys have done it.
13:56So there was a difference between that.
13:57He kept on using the U.S. media and other international sources
14:01to highlight that it was Arif Kasmani's gang,
14:04it has done it.
14:05But what happened,
14:07in the entering period,
14:08within 14 days,
14:11all the people who were real perpetrators,
14:14escaped into Pakistan,
14:15and nothing happened to them.
14:17They went scot-free.
14:18Similarly,
14:20Makkah Madrid also,
14:22Sharifuddin and Mohammed Bilal had done it.
14:24But what happened,
14:26they were allowed to escape,
14:28and some innocent people were hounded.
14:31So this has been their concerted effort,
14:33was there since 2006,
14:36to narrate,
14:37to set up an Hindu terror narrative.
14:39Even in 26-11,
14:41their attempt was made,
14:43and somehow,
14:44it got spilled out.
14:46That's what we can say about it.
14:48Okay?
14:49So are you saying 2006 onwards,
14:52there was a concerted effort,
14:54but by whom?
14:55You know,
14:56this saffron terror theory,
14:57are you saying it was deliberately floated,
15:00with no evidence on ground, sir?
15:04See,
15:05basically,
15:06I had seen three ministers during the time.
15:11Two ministers,
15:12basically,
15:14Mr. Shivraj Patil,
15:15I have written in my book also,
15:17was very,
15:19very unattached,
15:20uninvolved,
15:20not very,
15:21really involved.
15:22And in his place,
15:24Digvijay Singh used to come over,
15:26and run the ministry.
15:27This is a fact.
15:28Most old home,
15:30they may not admit it now,
15:31but this is what is happening.
15:33Although,
15:34the formerly,
15:35Mr. Shivraj Patil,
15:36used to be the home minister.
15:38So,
15:39from there,
15:40the entire bogey of Hindu terror started.
15:42They attempted with Samjota,
15:43they attempted with few other terror attacks,
15:45and also,
15:47the 29th September,
15:4929th September 2008,
15:52originally,
15:53was done by Ahle Hadis.
15:56The IG Nasik there,
15:58on that day,
15:59was Mr.
16:00Mr. P. K. Jain.
16:01He is now,
16:02retired ADG of,
16:03Police of Marasthan.
16:05joining me shortly.
16:05He repeatedly is telling all over the place.
16:07It was Ahle Hadis.
16:09But,
16:10some people wanted to,
16:13replace it with a Hindu terror narrative,
16:16and brought in,
16:17several organizations,
16:18which they were,
16:19they had to take revenge,
16:20including,
16:21the flow of,
16:23this Colonel Porohi,
16:24personally,
16:25he was a 34 year old,
16:27selection grade,
16:28Lieutenant Colonel,
16:29would have gone on to become,
16:30the core commander,
16:31chief of army staff,
16:33whatever.
16:34That had to be,
16:35stopped,
16:36because ISA wanted it.
16:38I am on record,
16:39as having said,
16:40the 26th level,
16:42and,
16:43was a,
16:43fixed image,
16:44between ISA and INC,
16:46there are several other,
16:47including,
16:48fake currency,
16:49fake currency,
16:50trafficking,
16:51and so many things.
16:52So,
16:53it was all,
16:54planned,
16:54there was a,
16:55system,
16:56within the system,
16:57in the government,
16:57I want the political system,
16:59which were,
17:00in cohort with Pakistan,
17:02and trying to,
17:02send up,
17:03this,
17:04replace Islamic,
17:06outer Islamic terror,
17:08with Hindu terror narrative.
17:10No,
17:10sir,
17:10but that's a very grave charge,
17:11to level on what basis,
17:13are you saying it,
17:13is there any evidence,
17:15to back,
17:15what you are saying,
17:16because,
17:17what would,
17:18the ultimate motive,
17:19have been,
17:20and I want to also refer,
17:21to one of your affidavits,
17:22in the Ishra Jahan case,
17:24in that affidavit,
17:26in court,
17:27you've mentioned,
17:27and there are two affidavits,
17:28one,
17:29you mentioned,
17:29you were tortured,
17:30to change your affidavit,
17:32on the basis of,
17:34central agencies,
17:36intelligence bureau,
17:37giving some input,
17:38to the,
17:38Gujarat government,
17:40in the Ishra Jahan case,
17:41apparently,
17:42if I remember correctly,
17:44and I covered that case,
17:45it was a plot to target,
17:47then chief minister,
17:48Narendra Modi,
17:50and,
17:50current home minister,
17:52Amit Shah,
17:53then,
17:53then a state,
17:54home minister,
17:55so what happened,
17:56in that Ishra Jahan case,
17:57why were you tortured,
17:57according to your affidavit,
18:00sir?
18:02That was a fixed,
18:03that was a CBI,
18:05which was,
18:06CBI,
18:07which wanted to frame,
18:09I was told,
18:10straight away,
18:11that you frame,
18:11Modi and,
18:12Modi and Amit Shah,
18:14they used the word,
18:17Kali Dadi and Safed Dadi,
18:19ko ap andar dal doge,
18:20aap ko mein yeh de dunga,
18:22wo de dunga,
18:22all sorts of,
18:24since I said the facts,
18:26say do not do like that,
18:28the facts are something,
18:29contrary to,
18:29I cannot change the facts,
18:31I will not do it,
18:32so for that,
18:33I was burnt,
18:34with a cigarette,
18:35by a,
18:36the then officer,
18:37of the,
18:38CBI,
18:39or Gujarat Kedra officer,
18:40who was anti-Modi,
18:41tirade,
18:42so it happened,
18:42in 2013,
18:43yes,
18:45so as a serving officer,
18:46you were burnt,
18:47with cigarette butts,
18:48and you refused,
18:49to change your affidavit,
18:51to implicate,
18:52Narendra Modi,
18:53and Amit Shah,
18:54sir,
18:55you join me here,
18:55on this India Today,
18:56special broadcast,
18:57many thanks,
18:57we will have a longer conversation,
18:59I quickly now,
19:00want to cut across,
19:01and,
19:01invite,
19:03on our broadcast,
19:04newly,
19:05nominated,
19:06member of parliament,
19:07Rajasabha,
19:07Ujwal Nikam,
19:08sir,
19:08congratulations,
19:09former,
19:10senior public prosecutor,
19:11in the 2611,
19:12Mumbai terror attacks case,
19:14Mr Nikam,
19:15I know,
19:16you did not deal directly,
19:18with the,
19:18Malegaon blast case,
19:19you were the SPP,
19:21senior,
19:21special public prosecutor,
19:23in the 2611,
19:24Mumbai terror attacks case,
19:25but I want to understand,
19:26from you sir,
19:27despite,
19:272642,
19:29long days,
19:31of trial,
19:32spanning over,
19:337 years,
19:341093,
19:35court hearings,
19:36examination,
19:37of more than,
19:38323 witnesses,
19:40more than,
19:4010,000 exhibits,
19:42the prosecution,
19:43failed,
19:44to secure,
19:44a single conviction,
19:46all let off,
19:48so,
19:48who is to be blamed,
19:50for this,
19:50extensive legal process,
19:53because now,
19:53we don't know,
19:54who carried out,
19:54the Malegaon blast,
19:55Gowro,
19:59let me express,
20:00my sincere,
20:01thanks to you,
20:02for congratulating,
20:03me,
20:04on camera,
20:06but so far,
20:07as the present case,
20:08is concerned,
20:08let me make it clear,
20:10that I have not,
20:11conducted that case,
20:12at all,
20:12but I came to know,
20:14that the judge,
20:15of the court,
20:17has,
20:18passed,
20:18serious observation,
20:19in the judgment,
20:21for failure,
20:21of the prosecution,
20:22to establish,
20:23the guilt,
20:24of the accused,
20:25now,
20:26we have to keep in mind,
20:27the whole case,
20:28rest on the circumstantial evidence,
20:30and the court,
20:31had observed,
20:33that the prosecution,
20:34has utterly failed,
20:36to prove,
20:37the guilt,
20:38of the accused,
20:39and even the chain,
20:41has been disconnected,
20:42in many aspects,
20:44now,
20:45what the court,
20:46has observed also,
20:48that,
20:48the involvement,
20:50the,
20:51actually,
20:52the,
20:53ULP act,
20:55was,
20:55invoked,
20:57and the court,
20:58has seen,
20:58that there was,
20:59no material,
21:00to invoke,
21:01the said provisions,
21:02of the,
21:03ULPA,
21:04now,
21:05this is second thing,
21:06now,
21:07the most of the witnesses,
21:08did not support,
21:10the prosecution,
21:11they came in the court,
21:13and they said,
21:14that we had not,
21:15given a statement,
21:16like this,
21:17what has been recorded,
21:18by the ATS,
21:20that is the investigating agency,
21:22the first investigating agency,
21:24yes,
21:25now,
21:25if this is the true,
21:26then,
21:27I think,
21:28it is not,
21:29failure of the prosecution,
21:31but I am worried,
21:32now,
21:32let me tell you,
21:33very frankly,
21:34as an independent citizen,
21:35of this country,
21:37that,
21:38through this case,
21:39the politicians,
21:41had introduced,
21:41the Saperon terror,
21:43and,
21:43by introducing,
21:45this,
21:46phraseology,
21:47that created,
21:48a rift,
21:49between,
21:50the one religion,
21:51and other religion,
21:53this is the most,
21:54shameful,
21:55and,
21:55I must say,
21:56on camera,
21:57I must condemn,
21:58such attitude,
21:58of the certain,
21:59politicians,
22:01and,
22:01some politicians,
22:02have played,
22:02the game like this,
22:04so,
22:04this is one aspect,
22:05and,
22:06thirdly,
22:06held at,
22:08there is no,
22:09prima facie evidence,
22:11okay,
22:12let's take this,
22:12step by step,
22:13sir,
22:13you are saying,
22:14political leaders,
22:15coined this term,
22:16Saffron terror,
22:17or Hindu terror,
22:18and,
22:19is this,
22:20was this,
22:21politically motivated,
22:22and if so,
22:23to what end,
22:23sir,
22:24why was this done,
22:24in your view?
22:29Say,
22:29prima facie,
22:31if the court,
22:32has seen,
22:33number of these cases,
22:34there is no,
22:35prima facie material,
22:37and,
22:38it means,
22:39that the,
22:39investigating agency,
22:41were asked to do,
22:42in a particular manner,
22:44you see,
22:45I have,
22:47let me tell you,
22:48in camera also,
22:49that while conducting,
22:50very serious trial,
22:52against the terrorists,
22:53I never succumbed,
22:54to any political pressure,
22:56so,
22:57if this is a fact,
22:58if the,
22:58investigating agency,
23:00had done,
23:01a particular thing,
23:02in accordance with,
23:04you know,
23:04in order to fulfill,
23:05the wishes of the,
23:06political bosses,
23:07then this is,
23:08most disgusting,
23:10because,
23:10by acquittal,
23:12not only,
23:13you have done,
23:14one wrong thing,
23:15but,
23:16you have kept,
23:17innocent people,
23:18behind a bar,
23:19for number of years,
23:21yes,
23:22yes,
23:22so,
23:23let's now,
23:23specifically,
23:24talk about,
23:252611,
23:25Mumbai terror attacks case,
23:27because,
23:27you were the special,
23:28public prosecutor,
23:29in that case,
23:30and,
23:30did you find it,
23:31odds,
23:32that,
23:33these 10,
23:33Pakistani terrorists,
23:35all 10,
23:36had,
23:37fake,
23:38identity cards,
23:40with,
23:40Hindu names,
23:41and,
23:42all had tied,
23:43a kalawa,
23:43around that wrist,
23:45and you and I,
23:45had spoken about it,
23:46during the trial,
23:47and David Coleman,
23:48Headley,
23:49later mentioned,
23:50that he had bought,
23:50that kalawa,
23:51from Siddhi Vinay temple,
23:52sir,
23:56Gaurav,
23:56you have asked me,
23:57very right question,
23:59because,
24:00absolutely,
24:01ISI,
24:02or,
24:03Raskara Toiba,
24:04or,
24:04Jamatu Dava,
24:05had never,
24:06uttered a single word,
24:08so far,
24:08as the terror attack,
24:09of 26th November,
24:10that this is an attack,
24:12being sponsored,
24:13by Hindu people,
24:14and on,
24:15only,
24:16two persons,
24:16I must say,
24:17one retired police officer,
24:19who has no concern,
24:20with this case,
24:21and,
24:22during the,
24:23election of the Lok Sabha,
24:25this certain politicians,
24:27means,
24:27political leader,
24:28of a congress party,
24:30has made,
24:30a wild allegation,
24:33saying that,
24:34that,
24:34Karkare,
24:35Kamte,
24:36they were killed,
24:37by one,
24:38RSS police inspector,
24:40and Mr. Nikam,
24:41was knowing this fact,
24:43and Mr. Nikam,
24:44has suppressed this fact,
24:46and therefore,
24:46Mr. Nikam,
24:48is a desh drohi,
24:49said,
24:49they have abused me also,
24:51in that language,
24:52Pakistan,
24:53had never doubted,
24:55that,
24:55Kassab had,
24:56Kassab had not killed,
24:57or Kassab,
24:57or whatever,
24:58whatever the things are,
24:59so,
25:00when the Pakistan,
25:01itself,
25:02has never,
25:03any doubt,
25:03about the murder,
25:04of these people,
25:06then why,
25:06our,
25:07these congress politicians,
25:09had played,
25:09a foul game,
25:10in order to,
25:11under mileage,
25:12from the poor people,
25:14so,
25:14I think,
25:14this must be stopped,
25:16and,
25:16such dirty politics,
25:18should not be played,
25:19Sir,
25:20before I let you go,
25:21I just want to ask you,
25:21about the Samjhauta blast,
25:23you just heard,
25:23Mr. RVS Money,
25:25that this was probed,
25:26as a Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist,
25:28Arif Kasmani,
25:29as the financer,
25:30he was designated,
25:31by US,
25:31and UN,
25:32but in India,
25:33the investigations,
25:34were changed,
25:35to Hindu terror,
25:37being involved,
25:37in Samjhauta,
25:38does that weaken,
25:40India's case,
25:41globally,
25:42and,
25:42and does that just show,
25:43that,
25:44at least,
25:45when those cases,
25:45were being investigated,
25:47we were not serious,
25:47about,
25:48radical Islamist terror,
25:49or Pakistan state,
25:50sponsored terror,
25:52you see,
25:55India's position,
25:57is very sound,
25:58I must tell you,
25:59very frankly,
25:59because I have attended,
26:01the counter-terrorism conference,
26:02also abroad,
26:04and I found that,
26:05that every,
26:06the advanced country,
26:07has accepted,
26:08in principle,
26:09that India is a victim,
26:11of this terrorism,
26:12but unfortunately,
26:14some politicians,
26:16are playing a foul game,
26:17in blaming,
26:19particular community,
26:21that this community,
26:22has done,
26:22this community,
26:23has done,
26:24so I think,
26:25no criminal,
26:26has any caste,
26:27or race,
26:28or religion,
26:29and I think,
26:30this is a very bad tendency,
26:31which has been developed,
26:33but I am sure,
26:34that because of,
26:35this judgment,
26:36of the case,
26:37the politicians,
26:38will take a good lesson,
26:40let me now,
26:41throw it open,
26:42for wider discussion,
26:43at a time,
26:44and Mr. Nikam,
26:44many thanks for joining me,
26:46on this special broadcast,
26:47joining me now,
26:48on the show,
26:49is Mr. P.K. Jain,
26:50former additional director,
26:51general of the Maharashtra police,
26:53Saral Patel,
26:54represents the congress party,
26:55on this broadcast,
26:56Tuhin Sina,
26:57represents the BJP,
26:59Saral Patel,
27:00you've heard the BJP,
27:02it's come out,
27:03all guns blazing,
27:04saying,
27:05the congress party,
27:06Sonia Gandhi,
27:07and Rahul Gandhi,
27:07must apologize,
27:09for this term,
27:10saffron terror,
27:11and floating the bogey,
27:13of Hindu terror,
27:14sir.
27:14Before I quickly answer your question,
27:18I would like to say,
27:19as an Indian,
27:20not as a,
27:21spokesperson of any party,
27:24that today's,
27:25day,
27:26when US is humiliating India,
27:28by throwing,
27:30by slapping 25% tariff on us,
27:32by the language,
27:33kind of language,
27:34that Trump has used,
27:35it would have been fitting,
27:36if the subject of this debate,
27:37was around that,
27:39around our,
27:39That's coming up,
27:41that's coming up,
27:42that's coming up on India today,
27:43I've asked you a specific question,
27:44I want you to answer that,
27:46sir.
27:46Let me decide,
27:47what goes on my show,
27:48sir.
27:49I'm just pointing this out,
27:50as your viewer,
27:51and as a citizen of your country.
27:53Coming back to your,
27:54question,
27:55let me make it,
27:55categorically clear,
27:57it's congress party's stand,
27:59that,
27:59terror,
28:00any sort of terror,
28:01has no color,
28:03has no tilak,
28:04has no tofi,
28:05has no religion.
28:07The coin that you are,
28:08the term that you are using,
28:10has been coined,
28:10by the,
28:11BJP MP right now,
28:12Mr. R. K. Singh.
28:14So it's fitting,
28:15the BJP asked this question,
28:17to the,
28:18to its own MP,
28:19that why did he,
28:20coin that term,
28:22during his tenure,
28:23as home secretary,
28:24and why,
28:25even after that,
28:26they rewarded him,
28:27with the cabinet ministry.
28:29Coming back to the,
28:30Malegao acquittal,
28:32so I don't think,
28:33it's a,
28:33it's a closure,
28:34it's a confession,
28:35that politics,
28:36has trampled justice,
28:37and this is not,
28:38just an allegation,
28:39it's a record,
28:40it's on record,
28:42that public prosecutor,
28:43Mr.
28:43Miss Rohini Salian,
28:45has said,
28:46that she was asked,
28:46to go slow,
28:47in this case,
28:48by NIA in 2015,
28:50in 2016,
28:51The case was under investigation,
28:52from 2008 onwards,
28:55NIA came into the picture,
28:56much,
28:56much later,
28:58and,
28:58anyway,
28:59Tuhin Sina,
29:00wants to comment,
29:00Tuhin Sina,
29:01why should the,
29:02Congress apologize,
29:03if the probe,
29:04was faulty,
29:06from the word,
29:07go and the accused,
29:08were let off,
29:08for lack of evidence,
29:10the allegations are,
29:11that once the BJP,
29:12government came in power,
29:13as Saral,
29:14Saral Padale says,
29:16that the moment,
29:17the BJP government came,
29:19Rohini Salian,
29:20was asked to go slow,
29:22on this case sir,
29:22so the case,
29:23was deliberately weakened,
29:24well good evening Gaurav,
29:29good evening everybody,
29:31on a day,
29:31when Rahul Gandhi,
29:32when he spoke,
29:33outside parliament,
29:34he should have profusely,
29:35apologized to the nation,
29:37for concocting,
29:38the saffron terror narrative,
29:40he ends up abusing,
29:41India again,
29:42this has been the reality,
29:43of the UPA era,
29:45let me put this on record,
29:47and in fact,
29:48you are one of the journalists,
29:49who would agree with me,
29:50from 2006 onwards,
29:52there are multiple,
29:53terror cases,
29:54where investigation,
29:56was deliberately,
29:57botched up,
29:57in the early stages,
29:59that includes,
29:59the 2006 train blast,
30:01in Mumbai,
30:01that includes,
30:02the 2007,
30:03Samjhauta Express blast,
30:05that includes,
30:06another blast in Hyderabad,
30:07in the same year,
30:08in 2007,
30:09and that includes,
30:102008 Malega of blast,
30:12now the question,
30:12that needs to be asked,
30:14is why,
30:15was congress,
30:16ultra soft,
30:17towards Pakistan,
30:18based terror groups,
30:20that is because,
30:20they didn't have the ability,
30:21to take on Pakistan,
30:22the gumption,
30:23to take on Pakistan,
30:24so instead,
30:25the best,
30:26you know,
30:26alternative for them,
30:27was to paint,
30:28was to concoct,
30:29a vile,
30:30and spurious narrative,
30:32of saffron terror,
30:33and you know,
30:34this narrative,
30:34went on,
30:35went on,
30:36for the next seven years,
30:37till the time,
30:37they were in office,
30:38if in 2015,
30:40a certain judge,
30:40has been asked,
30:41to go slow,
30:42if,
30:42I am not sure,
30:43you know,
30:43because congress,
30:44is an expert,
30:44in concocting,
30:45in misrepresenting facts,
30:47but that is only,
30:48because of the anomalies,
30:50which were,
30:51that is only,
30:52because of the anomalies,
30:53that were already,
30:54piling up,
30:55on the case,
30:56since the last seven years,
30:57in all of the seven years,
30:58that the UPA,
30:59is in power,
31:00and by the way,
31:00you know,
31:01Shidambram,
31:01in a conference,
31:02of DG police,
31:04in 2010,
31:05has used the word,
31:06Hindu terror,
31:07Sushil Kumar Shinde,
31:09whose daughter,
31:09by the way,
31:10just two days ago,
31:11called Operation Sindur,
31:12Atamasha,
31:13was again,
31:14somebody,
31:14who would frequently,
31:15use the word,
31:15Saffron terror,
31:16so these people,
31:17are deliberate culprits,
31:18they have been,
31:19you know,
31:20shielding,
31:20Pakistan based,
31:21terror groups,
31:22from then,
31:22and they continue,
31:23to do so,
31:24even after Operation Sindur,
31:25which you have seen,
31:26in the last few days,
31:26Saran Patel,
31:26of course says,
31:28the then home secretary,
31:30was rewarded,
31:31by the BJP,
31:32made a minister,
31:32and a member of parliament,
31:34when he joined the BJP,
31:35and had used the word,
31:37Saffron terror,
31:38but Mr Jain,
31:39I want to stay,
31:39on the point of investigations,
31:41for a moment,
31:42were the investigations,
31:43tainted from step one,
31:45the initial team,
31:46had arrested,
31:47a different set of suspects,
31:49Mr Jain,
31:50you heard RVS Money,
31:52who spoke of,
31:53Ahle Hadis,
31:55you know,
31:55followers of a certain,
31:57group,
31:58who had been taken,
31:58into custody,
31:59the Maharashtra ATS,
32:00arrested a different,
32:01set of suspects,
32:02the NIA court,
32:03ruled that the prosecution,
32:05failed to prove a case,
32:06citing,
32:07not just,
32:08not being able,
32:09to stitch together the case,
32:10but also,
32:10citing defective sanctions,
32:12unauthorized phone call,
32:13interceptions,
32:13in your appreciation,
32:15what investigative lapses,
32:17or external pressures,
32:18during the probe,
32:19ATS probe,
32:20NIA probe,
32:21that may have,
32:21weakened the case,
32:23weakened the evidence,
32:24leading to this acquittal sir.
32:25Gaurav,
32:27thank you very much,
32:28for inviting me here,
32:29see I would,
32:30this observation,
32:31was made by Mr Money,
32:32about the 2006 case,
32:342006 case,
32:36there was a different,
32:36set of accused,
32:37who were actually,
32:38charge sheeted,
32:39and this investigation,
32:40was carried out,
32:41by the local police first,
32:42and then by the ATS,
32:43and subsequently,
32:44by the CBI and NIA,
32:46the second case,
32:47was of 2008,
32:48now I'll tell you,
32:49about the 2006 case first,
32:51in this case,
32:52all these accused,
32:52who were charge sheeted,
32:53subsequently,
32:55when the 2008 case,
32:56was being investigated,
32:58and all these people,
32:59Saadvi Pragya,
33:01Karnaprohit,
33:01and all these people,
33:02were roped in,
33:03after that,
33:04the original accused,
33:05in the 2006 case,
33:07were discharged,
33:08and these people,
33:09were made the accused,
33:10in this,
33:11in the 2006 case,
33:13with the result,
33:14that the 2006,
33:15actual accused,
33:16against whom,
33:16a whole lot of evidence,
33:17was available,
33:18they were left,
33:19scot free,
33:20and the people,
33:21against whom,
33:21there was not an iota,
33:22of evidence,
33:24which now,
33:24after today's case,
33:25judgment,
33:26it will be absolutely,
33:27crystal clear,
33:28against whom,
33:28there was not an iota,
33:29of evidence,
33:30were made accused,
33:31and they will also,
33:32go scot free,
33:33in that case,
33:33that case has yet,
33:34not been decided,
33:35now coming to 2008 case,
33:37I was IG security,
33:38by that time,
33:38I was no longer IG,
33:40that's it,
33:40but since we were,
33:41in the headquarters,
33:42we got to know,
33:43of the progress,
33:44in the investigation,
33:45and everything happened,
33:46now it's a fact,
33:47that these accused,
33:50were booked,
33:52they were involved,
33:53in this case,
33:53deliberately,
33:55now this narrative,
33:55started sometime,
33:56in the year 2008,
33:57when they wanted to,
33:59the boggy,
34:00or the narrative,
34:01of the Hindu terror,
34:02or the separate terror,
34:03was being promoted,
34:05this happened,
34:05in 2008 case,
34:06of Malikau,
34:08this happened,
34:09the same thing,
34:10you know,
34:11Mr. Mushri,
34:12who was one of our ex-IGs,
34:13he wrote a book,
34:14about the RSS conspiracy,
34:17he then,
34:18then there was a book launch,
34:20yes,
34:21then there was another,
34:23there was another book launch,
34:25where Mr. Digvijay Singh,
34:26was very categorically stated,
34:28said something,
34:29about the Hindu terror,
34:30and the Bhagawa Atangwad,
34:32so all this boggy,
34:32was created,
34:33right from 2008,
34:34to 2013,
34:35they kept on,
34:36they kept on repeating,
34:36the same allegations,
34:38arguments,
34:39there was not an iota,
34:40of truth,
34:40now I have no intricate,
34:42knowledge of the investigation,
34:43of 2008,
34:44but since,
34:45I was very closely,
34:46and thickly involved,
34:47with the supervision,
34:48of 2006 case,
34:49which was completely overturned,
34:51and thrown,
34:52into the dustbin,
34:53that investigation,
34:54I am aware of,
34:55and I stand by it,
34:56not only me,
34:57the subsequent,
34:57investigating agencies,
34:58also stood by it,
34:59in the charge,
35:00it was sent,
35:01and it was only after,
35:01the 2008 case,
35:03that all those accused,
35:03were discharged,
35:04and new,
35:05set of accused,
35:05was brought in,
35:06so those who were,
35:07actually involved,
35:08in your view,
35:09go on sir,
35:10yeah,
35:10please come to your point sir,
35:11see in the,
35:12in 2006 case,
35:14has now gone,
35:15completely to dog,
35:16now 2008 case,
35:17because they wanted,
35:18to prop up a case,
35:19they wanted to apply,
35:20the sections of MCOCA,
35:21MCOCA,
35:22as one would like,
35:23MCOCA,
35:24as one would like,
35:25to know,
35:26or learn about it,
35:27is that there are,
35:28two previous cases,
35:30registration of two previous cases,
35:31is necessary,
35:32that is why,
35:33the entire thing was,
35:35to in my opinion,
35:36it was,
35:36the earlier case,
35:372006 case was also changed,
35:39and the charge,
35:39it was sent up,
35:40in this case,
35:41under MCOCA,
35:41MCOCA was,
35:42subsequently withdrawn,
35:43very,
35:44very pertinent point,
35:45you are making here,
35:46very,
35:46very pertinent point,
35:47and before I bring in,
35:48Saral Patel again,
35:49I want you to listen,
35:50into the statements,
35:51that were made,
35:52during that time,
35:54about the so called,
35:56Hindu terror,
35:57or saffron terror,
35:58who was making it,
35:59and when,
36:00hear it,
36:01because there is,
36:02evidence,
36:02of these statements,
36:03being made.
36:07SANGH کے لوگ,
36:09اور BHAJPACI leadership,
36:11हमारे को,
36:12یہ तो बताए,
36:14कि,
36:14जितने लोग,
36:15पकड़े जाग गए हैं,
36:18वो सब के सब,
36:20SANGH کے कारिकरता,
36:21हैं के नहीं हैं,
36:23RK SINGH Home Security,
36:24साब ने,
36:25जो सूची दी है,
36:27हम जानना चाहते हैं,
36:28SANGH से,
36:29और BHAJPACI से,
36:31कि,
36:31ये सब SANGH के प्रचारक,
36:33रहे हैं के नहीं रहे हैं,
36:36अमूमन तोर पर,
36:39SANGH के लोग,
36:40और BHAJPACI,
36:42ये बयान देते थे,
36:44कि,
36:44हम ये तो मानते हैं,
36:45कि,
36:45हर मुसल्मान,
36:46आतंगवादी नहीं है,
36:49लेकिन,
36:49क्या कारण है,
36:50जितने आतंगवादी पकड़े गए हैं,
36:52वो सब मुसल्मान क्यों हैं,
36:54आज मैं पूछता हूँ,
36:56SANGH से,
36:57और BHAJPACI से,
36:58कि,
36:58हम ये तो बात बूरा मानते हैं,
37:00कि, हारे,
37:01हिंदू तो आतंगवादी हो ही नहीं सकता,
37:04लेकिन,
37:05क्या कारण है,
37:06कि,
37:06जितने हिंदू आतंगवाद में पकड़े गए हैं,
37:09वो संग के कारे करता क्यों हैं?
37:11There is a recently uncovered phenomenon of saffron terrorism,
37:16that has been implicated in many bomb blasts of the past.
37:20Saral Patel respond,
37:402010,
37:42you had P. Chadambaram talking about saffron terror.
37:45BJP says there's a pattern,
37:46and it talks about Samjhauta blast, for example.
37:49There was a Pakistani terrorist or a Pakistani terror network,
37:53that was unearthed.
37:54Arif Kasmani had arranged funds for Samjhauta.
37:57Both US and UN designated a Pakistani terror financer,
38:01Arif Kasmani.
38:02Put him on 1267 sanctions list,
38:04and then in the era of the Congress,
38:07it was changed to Hindu terror.
38:09Before I answer your question,
38:11I would like to quickly retort what BJP,
38:14my friend from BJP said before,
38:16that Congress seems to be sympathetic towards Pakistan.
38:19This, nothing can be far from this,
38:22because I would like to remind my friend
38:23that it is the Congress party
38:25that hanged Mr. Ajmal Kasab and Afzal Guru.
38:30So he should know his fact,
38:31and you were just congratulating Mr. Nikam for that.
38:35You should know that it was our government,
38:36the UPA government,
38:38which investigated and hanged Mr. Ajmal Kasab
38:41for 200, 2008 terror attack.
38:45The BJP's own MP,
38:46Ms. Sarvi Pragya Thakur,
38:48on record from BJP's own stage in Bhopal,
38:52when the entire BJP leadership was present,
38:55has said in her election rally
38:56that it was her shrap that killed Himant Karkare,
39:00who was ATS chief,
39:01who sacrificed,
39:02who made supreme sacrifice for the country
39:05while fighting Mr. Ajmal Kasab
39:07and his friends in 2008 terror attack.
39:11This is shameful,
39:12and BJP must apologize to the nation
39:14that they gave a ticket to such person
39:17and made such person an MP.
39:20Coming back to the 2008 case,
39:23it is on record that in 2016,
39:26seven testimonies were taken
39:28in front of magistrate,
39:30in which all the witnesses
39:32have implicated the accused.
39:36And till date,
39:37the government has not been able
39:40to find these testimonies.
39:42So this is a very fact
39:43that this case was watered down
39:45and has been systematically watered down
39:49under some sort of political pressure
39:51because Ms. Salian,
39:53Ms. Salian has also filed
39:55a parallel petition in Supreme Court
39:57in which she presented
39:58plethora of evidence,
40:00but Supreme Court did not give judgment
40:03just because trial court
40:04was about to pronounce its verdict.
40:07So it is fitting that...
40:08So you haven't answered
40:09my very specific question
40:11on the Samjhauta blast,
40:13Pakistan's involvement
40:14and Arif Kasmani.
40:16You haven't answered that
40:17in your entire answer,
40:18but I didn't want to interrupt you
40:19while you were speaking to him,
40:21Sena, if initial leads
40:23may have indicated
40:24Lashkar-e-Taiba involvement,
40:27but later, as, you know,
40:29some in the government
40:30believed at that time
40:31that the links then
40:33turned towards Hindu terror.
40:35There were some statements
40:35that were made even in Pakistan
40:37that, you know,
40:39so-called Hindu terrorists
40:41had sought the help of Arif Kasmani
40:43of Lashkar-e-Taiba in Pakistan,
40:45so the probe direction changed.
40:46So such was the claim that was made.
40:49Why does a political establishment
40:52or a political party
40:53have to apologize for it?
40:54Why is the BJP making this political?
40:59No, no, so, you know,
41:01you are yourself suggesting, Gaurav,
41:02that Congress has been borrowing
41:04its agendas from Pakistan
41:06for the last two decades.
41:07Who was the person
41:08who apparently went to U.S. Embassy
41:10and said that, you know,
41:11Hindu extremism,
41:13Hindu extremism
41:14is a bigger danger
41:15to the country than L.E.T.
41:18Obviously, it was Rahul Gandhi,
41:19if you trust the, you know,
41:20U.S. ambassador
41:21and, you know,
41:22what was reported on WikiLeaks.
41:24When was it happening?
41:25At a time when,
41:26between 2004 to 2009,
41:28you know,
41:29one major blast would take place
41:31after every 38, 40 days
41:33and across the country.
41:34So, if then,
41:36if in that situation,
41:37Rahul Gandhi believed
41:38that Hindu extremism
41:40posed a graver danger
41:42than L.E.T.,
41:43then God save this Congress party.
41:45My friend from Congress
41:46is waxing eloquent
41:47on how they solved the 26-11,
41:50but please remember
41:51that 26-11 was a culmination
41:53of multiple,
41:54multiple terror blasts
41:56which were taking place
41:57over the previous five years
41:58and they took place
42:00because you were lax
42:01with investigation.
42:02All your investigations
42:03were botched up
42:04including the 2006 Mumbai blast
42:07where there was no terror,
42:09Hindu terror angle,
42:10Saffron terror angle,
42:10but still the wrong people
42:12or perhaps the wrong people
42:14were implicated
42:14because we found it
42:15extremely difficult
42:16to secure conviction for them
42:18despite the MOCA court
42:20convicted them in 2015.
42:22But these initial watch-ups
42:24in your investigation,
42:25whether they were deliberate
42:26or accidental
42:27or due to your incompetence,
42:29they encouraged terrorists
42:30throughout to carry out
42:32a series of unending blasts
42:34across the UPA era.
42:36That is the difference today.
42:37And now when you are in opposition,
42:39you still continue to peddle
42:40the Pakistan agenda
42:42post-operation sindur.
42:44Okay, I'll get Saral Patil
42:45to respond to that,
42:46but Mr. Jain,
42:47I want to stay with the Samjhauta blast
42:48for a moment
42:49because that has
42:49international ramifications.
42:51Did changing the course
42:52of investigations
42:53and letting the Pakistani
42:55terrorists of the hook
42:56weaken India's case globally
42:58and put this taint
43:00on Hindu terror
43:01when there was evidence
43:03that Samjhauta
43:04was the handiwork
43:05of Pakistan
43:06and Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists?
43:08See, Gaurav,
43:11this was the government
43:12which was in power.
43:13There was a party in power.
43:15They had a clear-cut agenda.
43:16So they were trying
43:17to proliferate
43:18the same agenda
43:19across the cases.
43:20As I said,
43:21MCAOCA cannot be invoked
43:23unless there are
43:23two previous charge sheets
43:25in earlier criminal offenses.
43:27So Samjhauta Express
43:28was one.
43:29The second one
43:29was the Malagao blast
43:30of 2006.
43:32So all these cases
43:33were pinned on
43:34these accused
43:35who were made accused
43:36in 2008 case
43:38and these sections
43:39of MCAOCA were invoked.
43:41Subsequently,
43:41MCAOCA was thrown out
43:42and only UAPA stayed
43:44which also the court
43:45threw out today.
43:46So unfortunately,
43:47it seemed that
43:47some officers,
43:48some investigators
43:49did go down
43:50to the political pressure
43:51at that time
43:52and they carried on
43:54the narrative of...
43:55In fact,
43:55I spoke to...
43:56I mean,
43:56I have said it earlier
43:57on various programs.
43:59I spoke to Mr. Karkare once.
44:01He is unfortunately
44:02no more
44:03and he cannot
44:03counter my statement.
44:04I asked him
44:05why did you change
44:06the entire course
44:07of investigation
44:07of 2006?
44:09He said,
44:09no, sir,
44:09we got some other leads
44:10into the case
44:11and that's why
44:11we have reopened
44:13the case
44:13and given further
44:14evidence to the court.
44:15I know there was
44:16not an iota of truth
44:17in what he said
44:18because the fact is
44:19that when I was there,
44:21ATS chief was there,
44:22central agencies
44:23had come,
44:24NTRO people had come
44:25and we were all
44:26doing a joint investigation.
44:28Everybody was in sync
44:29with the investigation
44:30saying that
44:31the people
44:31whom we had arrested
44:32were the actual
44:34culprits were
44:34the actual accused.
44:35So,
44:36apparently,
44:36it may have
44:37brought down,
44:38it may have caused
44:39a little embarrassment
44:39to Bharat
44:41on the international
44:43arena
44:43by the claims
44:45of the Hindu
44:46Saffron terror,
44:47etc, etc.
44:48But,
44:482007,
44:50the Samjota Express
44:51case was thrown out,
44:52everybody was acquitted
44:53and now in 2025,
44:55we find that
44:56this particular case
44:57also has ended
44:57into acquittal.
44:58So,
44:59the entire narrative
45:00of the political party
45:01which was in power
45:01at that time
45:02has been totally
45:03trashed.
45:04This is the only thing
45:04I can say
45:05it's unfortunate
45:05but it's true.
45:07You know,
45:07I'd covered some
45:08of these cases
45:09on ground
45:09and it was,
45:10it was,
45:11it was just
45:12unbelievable
45:13that we were
45:14covering these cases
45:15from day one.
45:16Initially,
45:17it would start off
45:17as Lashkar-e-Taiba
45:19and it was
45:20Arif Kasmani
45:21and this was
45:23the handiwork
45:23of Lashkar-e-Taiba
45:24and suddenly
45:25Hindu terror bogie
45:26came into
45:27these investigations.
45:28In fact,
45:28I was anchoring
45:29one of those days
45:29the day it had happened
45:30but I also want to,
45:32you know,
45:32I've run out of time
45:33on this part of the show
45:33but Saral Patel
45:34will get you back
45:35and to Hinson
45:36and Mr. Jain
45:36to talk about
45:37what RBS Money
45:38just said.
45:39RBS Money
45:40had sent an affidavit
45:41in the Ishra Jahan case.
45:43Again,
45:43that was a case
45:43I had covered.
45:44In the Ishra Jahan case,
45:46the Intelligence Bureau
45:47in Delhi
45:47sent out leads
45:49on Ishra Jahan
45:50and the Pakistani
45:51Lashkar-e-Taiba module
45:52that there was
45:53an attempt to assassinate
45:54then Gujarat Chief Minister
45:55Narendra Modi.
45:56We'd covered that case
45:58and suddenly
45:58he signed that affidavit.
46:00Later he was forced
46:01to change that affidavit
46:02and tortured
46:03because he did not
46:03change that affidavit
46:04that central agency
46:05sent no leads.
46:07What was happening
46:08in the Ministry of Defense
46:09in the Home Affairs
46:10at that point of time
46:11and my big question is
46:1211 years
46:12Narendra Modi government
46:13has been in power
46:14Amit Shah as the Home Minister.
46:15Was that investigated
46:16and if not,
46:17why not?
46:18And if people
46:19were playing with terror,
46:22with national security,
46:23will action be taken
46:24against them
46:24or will it just remain
46:25a political case?
46:27We'll track that story
46:28very closely.
46:29To all my guests,
46:30many thanks for joining me.
46:32I need to slip into
46:33a quick break here
46:34but when we come back
46:35on the other side
46:35of a break,
46:36we will talk about
46:37Rahul Gandhi
46:39saying that
46:40Donald Trump is right,
46:42Indian economy
46:42is dead.
46:44What's the factual position
46:45on India First?
46:47We get to facts.
46:48Mikram Jai,
47:13if you don't want to
47:14take a look,
47:14you won't be able to
47:15look at it.
47:17Security!
47:17Priya, Priya!
47:21Hey Priya,
47:22how did my stunt look?
47:25Mikram,
47:26you give me a hint?
47:29Vikram!
47:30Hint.
47:30BADY ARAAM SE
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