- yesterday
ITDC Managing Director Mugdha Sinha shared her journey into civil services, highlighting challenges of gender bias and societal expectations. In an interview, the 1999-batch IAS officer recounted a mentor questioning her aspirations and discussed how women officers are often pigeonholed, with districts stereotyped as 'women's districts.' Sinha emphasized the role of intellect over appearance and the importance of authenticity in professional spaces. At a forum, senior bureaucrats discussed breaking patriarchal molds, retaining feminine qualities, and fostering a 'sisterhood of women' for systemic reform. They explored challenges like accessibility being misconstrued and contrasted experiences across state cadres and political dynamics. The conversation underscored the significance of compassion, collaboration, and purpose-driven power within civil services and society.
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00:00Well, after that very, very spirited session that we had with Dr. I mean, Mrs. Rekha Gupta, the Delhi Chief Minister,
00:07we're very, very delighted to welcome on stage two distinguished IS officers, women bureaucrats,
00:13Dr. Anju Sharma, Additional Chief Secretary, Agriculture, Farmers, Welfare and Cooperation for Gujarat,
00:19and of course, Mugda Sinha, Managing Director, ITDC.
00:23Let's start with you, Mugda.
00:25And if you take a look at your personal journey, let's start with some personal facts.
00:32When you first entered the IAS, did you have to, did you feel that you have to prove yourself more than the male peers?
00:40And how did you navigate that?
00:42So, I always keep telling people that I entered JNU in a skirt and moved out of JNU in a saree.
00:55So, that's how my journey from college to the famed portals of UPSC happened.
01:06You know, I'll just give you one anecdote of my time with my first mentor as a probationer.
01:15I was a pretty keen type probationer and one day in his office, I asked him that, sir, what are the good qualities of a civil servant?
01:27And he was, you know, he was, in chaste, colloquial, he said,
01:35For a guy, it's basically to be dynamic, outgoing, resourceful.
01:45I'd never asked a gendered question, civil servant is what I'd asked.
01:52And then I could not refrain myself, so I asked him, and what about a lady civil servant?
01:58That distinction never, you know, had entered my head, but just to ask him.
02:03So, he said, hardworking, obedient and sincere.
02:07So, you know, I was from JNU, that was provocation enough for me to ask another question and I did.
02:14And I asked him, sir, I've been given to understand that I am hardworking, sincere and obedient and that's why I've managed to be here.
02:25But I was also given to understand throughout my school and college journey that I have some iota of outgoingness, resourcefulness and dynamism in me.
02:36So, do you think that the twain cannot meet in a civil servant?
02:42So, then he said, Dekh Chori, do you want to be a homemaker or a homebreaker?
02:47Wow.
02:49And he was one of the best officers that I could have as a mentee.
02:55He was fabulous, except because this is how it is in the society.
03:00But many years down the line, when I was doing my second district in Hanumanagar, he became my secretary in charge.
03:10And I invited him home for dinner and asked him, sir, do you recall a conversation I had with you as a probationer?
03:17Because I really looked up to him.
03:18He always had my back.
03:19So, then, of course, he didn't recall because it was something that had impacted me.
03:27And then he said, Dekh Chori, there's nothing in your life.
03:30So, my takeaway from my life in the service has always been,
03:34I chose this service because I felt comfortable in my skin doing this job.
03:40And this job has nothing to do with your physique, but to do with your cranial matter inside of you.
03:47It is how you wield your pen.
03:50Of course, as a woman, you can have, you can bring more compassion, more empathy.
03:55But that is also not an attribute of any particular gender.
03:58Men can also be at times very compassionate and women equally cruel and callous.
04:04But what I have learnt is that if you remain authentic in who you are as a person,
04:11the world will adjust or the world will learn to adjust.
04:15Because I think life is equally teaching both of us from the interaction,
04:19from the friction that happens with me interacting with the world and the world interacting with me.
04:23And of course, that's a very humbling experience.
04:26And this is the crevice, the Venn diagram of intersections of two beings, two people.
04:33I think that is very, very important.
04:35And I have learnt and the world has kind of validated the fact that you continue to be who you are.
04:40And of course, that doesn't mean that you don't learn from people,
04:44don't, you know, soften your eccentricities.
04:48All that happens.
04:49But yes, I face a lot of gender issues.
04:55But sometimes I think it's more about who you are as a person and how people perceive you.
05:01And I think that is a continuous learning exercise.
05:04Like they say for marriage, you know, you can get married, but marriage is always work in progress.
05:11So being able to work with people is always work in progress.
05:15You learn from some, you teach some and you become, you're always becoming who you are.
05:21So I think that is the journey that I've had.
05:23And now let's turn to you, Dr. Anju Sharma.
05:26And of course, I'd asked her the question about her experiences.
05:30But if you take a look at, you've probably been through a journey that's about, maybe similar, maybe different.
05:36Did you at any time face discrimination when you started your career?
05:40And what was your response to some of these issues?
05:42So thank you very much.
05:47And of course, after such an excellent session by Delhi's Honorable Chief Minister, it was very motivating and encouraging.
05:57In fact, I was myself getting, I was flowing with the current and whatever she was saying.
06:03Yes, so you see, for a woman, challenges start from the day she's born or rather before she is born.
06:15That's true.
06:15So challenges are empty.
06:19But if we talk with relation to the service as first, specifically.
06:26So from the day one, we start facing challenges.
06:31And I see two common, very common type of things that we face.
06:36And there are different kind of people.
06:38So two major issues I have seen.
06:42One is infantilization.
06:44They kind of treat you as a kid, as an infant, as somebody who has to be hand-held, you know, always.
06:52So I don't know, whatever I've been experiencing.
06:56But that's what I feel, they treat you, they always think that she has to be hand-held.
07:06And the second also very important thing that I've seen is that they sometimes objectify you.
07:17And, of course, it happens.
07:21It does happen.
07:23But I will talk more on the more important part, which emerges from a very, very much patriarchal mindset of the society.
07:31And we all come from a very patriarchal mindset, very patriarchal society.
07:37This society has ingrained some values in us as a woman and as a man.
07:42And this is a part of our bringing up.
07:45We can't undo it in a day.
07:47Just because we have entered the service, we can't undo it.
07:50And this gets reflected in males and this gets reflected in females also.
07:56So what happens is that when both of us, we bring that patriarchal mindset on the table.
08:04And with, say, at that time when I entered the service, it was like, what, 6 to 8 percent.
08:11Luckily, now it has reached up to 34 percent.
08:13In 2023, it was 34 percent.
08:17Women who are in IIS.
08:19So with this kind of a distribution, when you all come on the table, so that's bound to happen.
08:28That, say, for these 94 percent or 95 percent or 92 percent, just imagine a situation that they're working in the night, say, at around 12 o'clock.
08:41Now, this situation happens in corporate, this situation happens in public life situations also and in bureaucracy also.
08:50Now, they stuck up with something.
08:52And you are either subordinate or peer or superior also.
08:56Superior, a little bit less because you will certainly not want to talk to your superior at such a time.
09:03But if they are peer or if they are subordinate, if it's a male to male or a female to female, there's no discomfort.
09:10Okay, you can call up at 2 o'clock, you can discuss it for half an hour, one hour, whatever.
09:19But the fact is that at the moment, say, I was going through the figures, with only 13 percent of women, because now women are increasing, but earlier they were not.
09:31So overall, I have been told that there are 13 percent women in the entire civil service cadre, if you see the bureaucracy.
09:38So that 83 through 17, now if on the other side is at 17 and this side is 83 or vice versa, then would a male call a female at 2 o'clock in the night to ask what to do and discuss for one hour?
09:56And if he or she does so, how will that be perceived by both of them and by their families and by the society?
10:06If suppose it gets in the media, then what's going to be?
10:10So these are the very fine nuances that happen, that kind of discomfort that comes, you know.
10:17And it's a very natural kind of thing.
10:20One is that you're coming from a patriarchal mindset, other thing is on the top of it, you have that difference.
10:26And you have the entire world watching you.
10:30It's not a very narrow setup.
10:33It's a highly kind of you're surrounded by glass.
10:37You know, everything is visible outside.
10:39So with these kind of things, it happens that your male counterparts are not very comfortable with you.
10:45Excellent point.
10:46And in that case, what happens is either they try to patronize you, protect you.
10:51So I'll give you a simple example like she said.
10:54So very early, when I was a probationer, when I was a probationer, my collector, I wanted to go and witness a riotous situation.
11:02That time it was 91, so I'm 91 batch, so it was 92.
11:07So I wanted to go with my male SDM and wanted to witness the riots.
11:15How do you manage it, how do you manage it, how do you manage it?
11:17I told you, sir, I want to know.
11:20Oh, no, do you know that the girls are going to throw their clothes?
11:23Wow.
11:24Now, this is a kind of attitude.
11:27They try to kind of becoming very, you call it protective, or they try to build in that fear.
11:33But then, when I was posted as regular SDM, then, of course, the boss got changed.
11:39There was a different boss.
11:40And similar situation was there.
11:42There was a crowd of around 1 lakh farmers.
11:45There was a farmer agitation.
11:47There was a crowd of around 1 lakh farmers in my pranth, SDM pranth.
11:53And they were agitating, and they wanted the district administration to come and talk to them.
11:58And I was SDM, my collector didn't want to go himself, because, obviously, there should be a first line and then a second line.
12:05So we decided.
12:06So I said, sir, I will go.
12:08He said, no, no.
12:08He told the RDC that send the other pranth with her, and he was a male.
12:15Of course, I didn't like it, you know.
12:17You'll always have to prove yourself, and you feel, this is my territory, this is my area.
12:25So why should someone else come with me, tag along with me, or even handle the situation?
12:31How am I going to learn?
12:33So I didn't like it.
12:36But I said, sir, please, give me a chance.
12:38Let me handle it.
12:39And I can assure you that nothing will happen, and we'll turn out to be winners.
12:45And he trusted me.
12:47He believed in me.
12:49He trusted me.
12:50I went all alone.
12:52We were only three people.
12:54They said nobody else will come.
12:55Only three people will come.
12:57In that entire male crowd of around 1 lakh farmers, all in a mood of agitation.
13:03Very peacefully, calmly, we went.
13:06We talked to them.
13:07We sorted out their situation.
13:09And they dispersed very peacefully.
13:11So what happened was, what happened was that, what I'm trying to say is that people have to trust you.
13:17They have to trust you.
13:19And when they trust you, that trust got enforced.
13:22And when the trust got enforced, when the collector got transferred, the charge of collector was given to me.
13:29And then the other male counterparty complained.
13:31Why has she been given the charge?
13:33Why have I not been given the charge?
13:34So he had to be given the charge because he's a male.
13:38So that, that question, I'm leaving to you.
13:42Excellent.
13:42Excellent.
13:43You're taking off from that particular episode that's there and the IS has always been regarded as a meritocratic institution.
13:54But does that merit operate same for men and women?
13:58Do you get a feeling that sometimes women officers are pigeonholed into social welfare, education, women and child protection, not given the kind of assignments that, you know, men would be getting?
14:10Is that a sense you get as you progressed as you progressed in your career?
14:13So I think I've always believed in fighting the one last fight.
14:20And sometimes, you know, the system has to bend to who you are or who you become ultimately.
14:30Initially, yes, of course, people look at you and people try the same patriarchal stunts at you.
14:37But then you have to somewhere draw a line, draw a boundary and say, this will not work with me.
14:45You know, I also remember a time when I went to my carder.
14:51I was told that one posting as a district collector, you will get because that is a perfunctory function to train you and you will be given one district.
15:04And usually, somehow…
15:06This is Rajasthan.
15:07This is Rajasthan.
15:08And this is some… I'm talking of the early 2000.
15:12We are the millennial batch, 99 batch.
15:14So this is in 2000.
15:18And I also saw women before me.
15:20We had in Rajasthan a lot of women.
15:22We had about 13, 14 women I could look up to.
15:26But many of the women in the carder at that point in time were single for some reason when
15:31I entered.
15:32Only a handful of them, three or four of them were married.
15:37And I got a sense from their dressing up, from their everything, that kind of they wanted
15:45to be low profile.
15:48They wanted to be not very properly dressed up.
15:53But I said, no, I cannot be in that mold.
15:57I have to be who I am.
15:59I was a certain type in college.
16:01I mean, I just cannot be another type because I'm a human being.
16:06I always say while livelihood might have many more letters in it, life is bigger than livelihood.
16:13And you are always prepping for life.
16:16I had a life before 24 when I got into the service and I will have a life when I superannuate
16:22after 60.
16:24And livelihood is just a mimicking of who you are grooming to be in life.
16:32So yes, there have been cases.
16:34I was given a district.
16:36Districts are also typecast.
16:37I don't know how it is in Gujarat, but districts are also typecast.
16:41So I was in the CM's office.
16:44I was little late to start my district and I was given a district which many women had
16:50done before because it's supposed to be a women's district.
16:56And then suddenly I ended up doing one district after another till I, after my fourth district
17:01and the government was giving me another district.
17:03I said, no, I've had enough of the district.
17:06I'd like to go for a central deputation.
17:09So kind of you break the mould by, you know, there is one thing Anjuji said about trust,
17:15people trusting you.
17:17But you also have to raise your mettle like she also did so that the other person can trust
17:23you.
17:24So for service, what matters is when you have to break patriarchy, when you have to break,
17:29you don't have to play to the gallery, you have to play to who you are.
17:32Because this life is your journey.
17:34The livelihood is supposed to make you who you are.
17:36It's a challenge towards your own journey.
17:38And I think that is very important.
17:41I mean, every time if you pander to the fact that, okay, let us be, you have to challenge.
17:46There was a time when, you know, I am a happy go lucky person.
17:49I was born with a smile on my face.
17:52And I have to keep, I had to tell bosses that, sir, I do very serious work for serious work.
17:59Please read my note sheet.
18:00I'm not going to have a very serious laden expression on my face.
18:04That's not how you face.
18:05There have been politicians who've told me, madam, you have to cut us off.
18:11So you know, this is my quality.
18:13I have to retain my feminine quality because my service, my job, my career has nothing to
18:20do with how I dress, how I look, of course, civility, I know the conduct rules of my service.
18:26I remain within that.
18:28But how I dress, how I smile, that has nothing to do with how I perform.
18:34I think the women's characteristics do not define her character at all.
18:40We bring integrity, the conduct, those things are very, very important.
18:45In fact, Anjuji's had some very nice experiences.
18:48I had very different experiences.
18:51I was an SDM in Ajmer with about four, five tassils, as they call it.
18:57And every time there was a difficult situation, the ADM who was a man would, you know, when
19:04you had to break buildings, remove encroachment, he would be found on leave.
19:09And there was a, Mike, and I, I was SDM, he was ADM, one rung senior to me.
19:13And my boss would say, Mugda ko bej de te hain, ye toad ke a jaegi.
19:18And I was just my first job in the service.
19:21You know, so somewhere, you're right when you ask the first question.
19:28You have to work hard.
19:29But we are not working hard to prove anything to anybody.
19:32I like working hard.
19:33I like multitasking.
19:35I like challenges.
19:37So I am doing it for myself.
19:40Because I always say, ki jab kisi ke haat mein aap mehendi lagate ho.
19:43You know, when we, in the typical interview question, Anju ji, you would also have prepped
19:48for it.
19:49Ki why are you here in the service?
19:50We are here to serve the nation, right?
19:53So but jab aap in the service of nation hoote ho, aur aap kisi ke haat mein mehendi lagate
19:59you, you're trying to do something, uska thoda ansh aapke haat mein bhi rehta hai.
20:05So now this service in putting myself, I would say, in service of the job that I do for the
20:11civil service, because before 24 and after 60, I'll also be a part of the civil society.
20:18I think it is my duty to raise the bar because we all, as Newton said, stand on the shoulders
20:25of giants before us.
20:27I am also standing on the shoulders of giants who paved, women giants who paved the way
20:32for so many of us to move from there to here.
20:36So I think I should, I would want to continue to do the work by just being who I am.
20:42And I think this will also teach the other half or maybe all of us to learn to recognize
20:51strong women.
20:52The issue is sometimes not about gender so much.
20:56It is about how the other person is comfortable in their own skins.
20:59I have often times not faced issues from men bosses, because their wives who are also equally
21:05working professionals have upped their ant in recognizing and being comfortable with them.
21:12So I have been on the good receiving side where male bosses, male colleagues are very accepting
21:18of the person I am, strong-minded with an opinion of my own.
21:25Sometimes it's women who find it difficult to navigate with a woman who has a mind of her
21:32own.
21:33And I think that is why I say, because I see a lot of women in the gathering, that you know,
21:40the world is cruel.
21:42The cruelty of the world should teach you to be kind and compassionate and to always, always
21:49ensure that there is a sisterhood of women.
21:54Because if we don't hold our hands, then we can keep crying about patriarchy and nothing
22:00will happen.
22:01Because you know, this typical saas, bahu dramas also play out in the office.
22:07It's not just male.
22:08We have to teach, we have to teach each other, we have to be accommodating to each other.
22:15It's not just religions who have to be accommodating.
22:18We also have genders, communities, people have to be very, very accommodating to each other,
22:25standing, standing in other people's shoes, it's different for everybody.
22:35Men also have it.
22:37Men also have it.
22:38I see men are in the minority, but men ke bhi jute mein kabhi kabhi wo hota hai.
22:43So can we just, before we are civil, before we are candid, before we are civil society or
22:48civil servant, can we just learn to be compassionate?
22:52I think that is one leadership trait that I would like to really say that can change
22:58things around you.
23:00Thank you for that.
23:01Excellent answer.
23:02And I'm going to take it a little different tack with you, Dr. Anjou.
23:08Let's talk about political bosses.
23:09Okay?
23:10We've talked about your peers and everybody else.
23:13Does that equation shift when you are dealing with a politician?
23:18Are you taken seriously or do you find politicians behaving differently with you as compared to
23:24your male peers?
23:26And how do you deal with them?
23:28Dr. Anjou.
23:29Okay.
23:30So my experiences have totally been different.
23:34And as SDM also, I started with a very difficult so-called male pranth.
23:38As SDO also, I've been in very important districts.
23:45And as collector, I've handled two very, very difficult districts.
23:49And in one of the districts, like she said, it was like always male district.
23:53And in one of the districts, I've never seen a lady collector than me, other than me.
23:59Not even before and not after.
24:01So very, two very difficult districts, and one of them was very highly sensitive from
24:06law and order point of view, and the other highly sensitive from political point of view.
24:10Both.
24:11And as you talked of the political bosses, and I would say it's an ecosystem.
24:16And I'm telling you, the politically heavy district in which I function, have worked as
24:24SDM.
24:25Even today, I have excellent relationships with my political peers at that time.
24:31Was it because of your erstwhile chief minister?
24:33Yes.
24:3425 years.
24:35It was 2000.
24:36Mr. Modi.
24:37It was 2000.
24:38Right.
24:39An excellent relationship from people.
24:42And even today.
24:43So I come from a state where we have seen women DGs, women home secretaries, women chief
24:52secretaries, women finance secretaries, everything.
24:55So it much depends on the political leadership also, and how much, again, the mindset, and how
25:03much push they want to give to the gender issues, and how much trust do they have in the
25:10ability of the women.
25:12Luckily, I am working in a state which has been blessed in this regard.
25:20And I got to work on women issues in each and every posting.
25:25I pioneered E-Mamtha for health.
25:29I pioneered your ABHIYAM, 181 ABHIYAM, which became a role model for the entire country.
25:38In fact, E-Mamtha also became a role model for the entire country.
25:41I participated in sickle cell disease program, and even student startup policy.
25:48And even now, I am working with the farmer's issues, which are very, very, you know, so-called
25:54male-dominating.
25:56But so it all, see, I am lucky, because the states are different.
26:02Because I come from the state where she is working.
26:05So her karma bhoomi is my channel bhoomi.
26:07So I know that she, because the mindset of the people who are there, and mindset of the
26:12people in Gujarat, they are entirely different.
26:15So that, that percolates to the civil service.
26:20And in our state, you know, we have an excellent system.
26:23I have had excellent relationships with our political bosses, even existing minister, previous
26:33ministers.
26:33You know, you have to be seen as fair.
26:38You have to be seen as honest.
26:41And you have to be seen as impartial.
26:44And you have to be seen as positive.
26:46If these four things are seen, and the last one is very important.
26:49If you have destructive tendencies, if you have negative tendencies, then people are not
26:56going to like you.
26:57See, it's just an ecosystem.
26:59You are not alone in that ecosystem.
27:01There are various players in that ecosystem.
27:03There are various stakeholders.
27:05And we all stakeholders, if we kind of work at cross purposes, we are not going to lead
27:12to development.
27:14We are not going to contribute to development.
27:15So if we have to become participants in the entire process of development, we have to
27:24work together as a team.
27:25And we have to understand each other's predicament.
27:29We have to understand each other's issues.
27:32And that's what we do.
27:34We work together.
27:36We, if they have any problem, we try to find a solution for them.
27:39And it's not a case with women officers alone.
27:46It's a case with male officers also.
27:49Because in certain states, I see male officers and the political bosses always fighting.
27:52So, that way, in our state, it's been very positive.
28:00They see you as an officer.
28:05And if you have the entire track record in front of you and behind you, then there is
28:12no issue at all.
28:14You can take toughest of the decisions and bail through it.
28:18And you can kind of take it through.
28:22And I'll tell you, recently, we took a very, very difficult decision.
28:26And it was like for the MSP procurement.
28:30And we found that a large number of farmers, they had registered without having the crop
28:36in their field.
28:37And I, now one thing is that you get very aggressive.
28:40No, no, no.
28:40I will not allow this.
28:41I will not allow this to happen.
28:43They sat with my minister.
28:44And I said, sir, this is the problem.
28:47And I want to do this because because of this, the genuine people are getting affected.
28:52Because we have limited quota.
28:54So, tell me, what should I do?
28:55He said, do what is fair.
28:57Do what is right.
28:59And we are with you.
29:00So, we did it.
29:02We blocked all those scrupulous farmers.
29:05And despite the public UN crime, we were able to get through with it.
29:10So, we can work together.
29:12We can work together.
29:14Yes.
29:15But, I will tell you, I will come to the point, it is slightly difficult.
29:20It is slightly difficult because as she very rightly said, we all get into a tendency
29:26of proving ourselves.
29:28You know, so, from the beginning, we have to prove ourselves.
29:32So, what happens?
29:33That we overperform.
29:34That we overachieve.
29:37We try to overexert.
29:38And what happens because of that, our competence level goes high.
29:42But, I think all of you can guess, there is a Harvard HBR study also on that.
29:47That our relationship outcome, it suffers.
29:52And because that suffers, you are seen as a very aggressive person.
29:58You are seen as a very pushy person.
30:00You are seen as, you know, something that very, sometime you are seen as a bully.
30:04Sometimes, she can understand.
30:08So, you know, that, so when it comes to a 360 degree, that affects you.
30:15And, the situations that you are talking about, where politicians or your, even other male
30:22counterparts may not be comfortable working with you.
30:26Maybe, these situations, though they may look very tough outside.
30:33Okay.
30:34So, like, of course, in Kudsharath, we don't have that problem.
30:36We have had home secretaries, chief secretaries, everything.
30:38But, in other states, so what happens is, that because your relational outcome, because
30:45you always focus on the results, and because I told in the beginning, this slight difficulty
30:52becoming very, very, you know, frank with you.
31:00Frank in a very, very positive term.
31:01Right.
31:02So, where you can discuss the issues, you know, threadbare.
31:05So, that is why, so those I have seen, we have had excellent women officers in police,
31:12in administrative services, who have overcome that barrier.
31:16And, because they have overcome that barrier, and they have a very high relational outcome,
31:22along with competence outcome, they have never had a problem in their postings.
31:25So, it all varies, and sometimes there is a lot of baggage, and there is a lot of ecosystem
31:32issues that surround us, but there is a silver lining.
31:36And, the very fact that our numbers are increasing in the service, that's going to change the scenario
31:43in the next 10 to 15 years.
31:44Things will be very different, and I'm sure, in 10 to 15 years, you will be talking different
31:48issues on the same stage.
31:50Well, with that very positive note, we have run out of time, but let's give these two outstanding
31:56bureaucrats and personalities, Magda Sinha and Dr. Anju Sharma, a very, very warm round of applause.
32:02Yes, please have the last word.
32:03Please have the last word.
32:05I thought you will ask this question, a very big, just two lines that I will say.
32:09One most important thing that all of us as women should do is that we should become accessible.
32:16In this society, accessibility sometimes get translated into availability.
32:22Okay.
32:23So, that's why we fear that accessibility.
32:27And, we do not become friendly because we may be perceived as friends.
32:33We do not become accessible because we may be seen as available.
32:37So, we have to understand and we have to become accessible.
32:44And, these are the good qualities the people trust in us because of our fairness.
32:49People trust in us because of our honesty.
32:52People trust in us because of our perseverance and endurance.
32:54You ask anybody in terms of perseverance and endurance?
32:58Yes.
32:59A woman has highest quotient.
33:00So, they value us for that.
33:03So, we have to build on these qualities.
33:05But, there are two, three things that we have still to work upon because of the kind of ecosystem that we work in.
33:11And, that's what I would like to say to the young girls and young corporate leaders.
33:16Good.
33:17And, Mugda, you can have 30 seconds to give your wonderful advice on this.
33:20So, sometimes, I fear that I might have a counterfactual kind of a narrative.
33:26But, you know, just because women break their 208 bones while delivering their progenies doesn't mean that they have to keep doing it also in their professional lives.
33:36Because, they have the capability to do it.
33:38Because, they have the huge pain thresholds and huge thresholds for perseverance and for patience.
33:45It doesn't mean that you have to, you know, put yourselves through that patience and perseverance.
33:51I think you must stand up for yourselves if you find yourselves in difficult positions.
33:56Even if it's breaking the mold for the simple reason that if Mr. Manji can single-handedly create a road from a mountain.
34:08Because, today, we have an example.
34:09I remember my mom used to tell me,
34:12You know, she's brought me up on that.
34:17Because, she said, don't, you know, the world adjusts to people.
34:20So, you be who you are.
34:21And, you know, when this whole Manji episode came and the film came, I've never met Mr. Manji.
34:27And, I said, yes.
34:29I mean, I, today, because I used to ask mom, give me an example of a person who's done it.
34:33When Manji episode happened, my mom said, look, you now have an example of a person who can do it.
34:39And, he survived.
34:40He's a contemporary.
34:42So, I think you must, because it's, you know, 20 years of hard work leads to one day of five minutes of fame or five minutes of success.
34:50But, you have to strive for that for 20 years.
34:54You may never get it.
34:55But, you have to strive because in your striving, there is a whole, this one lack.
35:02People are standing behind of you.
35:05Everybody's journey is individual.
35:06Find your purpose and let purpose be power.
35:09Because, there is a dialogue in Superman that, with great power comes great responsibility.
35:17That's what I'm saying.
35:20With great responsibility comes great power.
35:23But, if you want to be powerful, and powerful is not your materialistic power.
35:30Powerful is when you are comfortable in your skin, right?
35:34You can wear a tart and roam on the screen and still be very powerful about it.
35:38Power comes from your purpose in life.
35:42And, our life and our livelihood are given to us to find a purpose in life.
35:48And, if your purpose in life can become the power, I think you will be a good leaver, Achimedes leaver for the society.
35:56Because, ultimately, we all have to come back and be a part of the civil society.
36:02So, if you can contribute in the making of a good civil society, I'm sure in our old age, at least this is what I think,
36:09that we would have created a community where I'll be very, very happy to belong and not have to say that,
36:17okay, there is patriarchy, there is XYZ kind of issue.
36:22So, I'm working hard towards it.
36:23I'm sure that, together, what I think Anju Sharmaji also wanted to say is the sea of collaboration.
36:31So, compassion, collaboration, I think if that we can do, civil service and civil society working together in collaboration,
36:42I'm sure we will have a different kind of other sea of the country, if I can say that.
36:50Let's give both of them a very, very warm round of applause for this.