What it's Like with no Inner Dialogue?!? Article Review

Stefan Molyneux

In this episode, I examine inner monologues and their influence on thought and communication. We discuss varied experiences of having or lacking an inner voice, referencing insights from a CBC article. Personal anecdotes highlight how cognitive styles affect relationships and memory. Drawing on psychologist Russell Hurlburt's classifications of thought processes, I explore the benefits and drawbacks of inner dialogue. I conclude by encouraging listeners to reflect on their cognitive styles and their implications for reasoning and ethics.  FOLLOW ME ON X! https://x.com/StefanMolyneux  GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK! https://peacefulparenting.com/  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!  You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon! https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025

Transcript

00:00Hey, everybody, it's the family from Freedom Aid.

00:03So I put a tweet out a couple of weeks ago that seemed to go into some interest.

00:07I wanted to put some more details behind it of what it's like living without an inner monologue.

00:14And look, it's not a good or bad or plus or minus.

00:18It's just really, really important to embrace the diversity of human thought.

00:24So this is from CBC.

00:27Well, you know, they're taking my tax money.

00:29I might as well get the article out of it.

00:31So the article here starts,

00:34Hi there, are you hearing this sentence in your head right now?

00:36Well, I guess because I'm narrating it, you are.

00:38Is your inner critic voicing its thoughts on the sentence structure?

00:41Is it saying this is an odd start to a news story?

00:44The concept of an inner monologue, the term now commonly used to describe the voice in your head,

00:49recently sparked a flurry of discussion on social media.

00:52A tweet by a chiroplant emoji, blah, blah, blah, brought the topic into the forefront,

00:56informing the internet that not everyone has an inner monologue.

01:02And as when I posted it, and I first learned about this a couple of years ago,

01:07when I posted it, there's a certain amount of shock and horror.

01:10You know, for those of us who are ADHD, hyper-Hamlet types,

01:14constantly arguing and debating with ourselves and having to deal with a cacophony,

01:20a multiplicity of aspects of ourselves they call alter egos or alters.

01:24I call it the ecosystem, like I'm not just a me, I'm a me plus influential people I've met,

01:29what would Jesus do, and so on.

01:32So there's a lot that goes on.

01:34And for people who don't have these sort of inner voice or inner voices,

01:39it's a very different kind of life.

01:42Now, most of the people who follow what I do would have that sort of inner debate,

01:46inner dialogue, inner voice, because we're into philosophy, we're into self-knowledge,

01:52we're into self-criticism, and so on.

01:54And I mean, I write plays and novels, and I do role plays in call-in shows with listeners

01:59if there's a particular, say, family member who I need to get a sense of how they think.

02:03I'll ask that person to imitate their family member, I'll pretend to be them.

02:05So you can just sort of adopt these sort of other voices and other characteristics and so on.

02:09And you can't be a good novelist, of course, if you can't figure out how other people speak and think.

02:14So, I mean, there's pluses and minuses for sure.

02:16I mean, the plus is, I think, a more structured and self-critical form of thinking.

02:23The minuses is it's easy to get paralyzed with overthinking.

02:26So, again, strengths and weaknesses to both.

02:27All right.

02:30So this woman, sorry, this man, Kyle, wrote,

02:33Fun fact, some people have an internal narrative and some don't.

02:36As in, some people's thoughts are like sentences they hear,

02:39and some people just have abstract and non-verbal thoughts,

02:41have to consciously verbalize them.

02:43Most people aren't aware of the other type of person.

02:45There's a lot of self-sorting that goes on in society.

02:48And, you know, if you sit down with someone and they say,

02:52Oh, I woke up yesterday.

02:53I was really unmotivated.

02:54I had this stern talk with myself.

02:55I had a conversation with myself.

02:57I'm debating this internally.

02:58I have this inner conflict or whatever it is.

03:00Then you tend to be drawn to each other.

03:03Whereas the people who think in images and colors and instincts and gut sense,

03:07and again, I know this sounds like I'm trying to diminish.

03:09I'm not at all, but it's just a different way of thinking.

03:13Olivia Rivera, 22, said she figured out she doesn't have an internal monologue

03:17when her co-workers at a Regina,

03:19Regina is the city in Canada.

03:22They had an advertising slogan once,

03:26Regina, what rhymes with fun?

03:28Anyway, Regina Salon started talking about the viral debate.

03:31She said that until then,

03:31she didn't know that some people actually have a voice in their head

03:34that sounds like their own voice.

03:37She said,

03:37When I hear that other people have like a constant kind of dialogue

03:41and stream in their head,

03:43and that when they're doing a task,

03:45they'll just be thinking about things the entire time they're doing a task,

03:47it actually feels a little overwhelming.

03:49How do you deal with that?

03:50What does that feel like?

03:52You may have seen inner monologue portrayed in TV shows

03:55where a detective debriefs the situation via narration,

03:58or maybe you've seen the movie What Women Want,

04:00where Mel Gibson's character can read the minds of his female co-workers

04:02and romantic interests.

04:04Rivera said she first confronted with,

04:07that's interesting, I think that's a newism,

04:10she first confronted with

04:11the concept of an inner voice as a child,

04:14watching the show Lizzie McGuire,

04:17in which a small animated version of the main character

04:18shared her thoughts and commentary on what was happening.

04:21Rivera said she never understood the explanatory device

04:24was supposed to mimic the voice inside the character's head.

04:26Right, so if you do things and they sort of go outside your comfort zone,

04:30you get this view from the outside in,

04:32like the cringe factor.

04:35And the view from the outside in is another kind of inner voice

04:37where you, it's called a third eye,

04:40where you get to observe what it is that you're doing

04:42and give yourself feedback.

04:43Now, a lot of this is critical, and the criticism isn't bad.

04:46When I first started doing public speaking,

04:48I had an outside voice that looked at me and said,

04:51is this kind of ridiculous, this kind of goofy,

04:53the mannerisms are too much,

04:55the jokes are falling flat,

04:56and that helped me sort of fine-tune

04:59what I do in terms of public speaking

05:01to become better.

05:03And now, usually, if I see myself

05:04giving a speech on video,

05:07I'm usually quite pleased with that.

05:08There's still a few tweaks and so on

05:10that are worth doing, but the outside voice,

05:13it's like you think of an orbiting space station

05:17that's constantly radiating back to you the weather,

05:19which is your, you know, pluses and minus

05:20in what you're doing.

05:23All right, so this woman says,

05:25I don't have that, like this dialogue,

05:27inner dialogue, so that's always been weird to me.

05:29So what does Rivera's mind look like?

05:32She described her inner thoughts as jot notes.

05:35I don't really know that that explains much.

05:37Okay, so she says that if she's running late for work,

05:39she would know that she was late,

05:40but wouldn't be thinking,

05:41I'm late, I need to stop sleeping in,

05:42I need to go to bed earlier, et cetera.

05:44If she's having a panic attack,

05:46her anxiety manifests in more of a physical way

05:48rather than with compulsive, repetitive thoughts.

05:52I'm not telling myself to panic,

05:54and I'm not like, oh my gosh, Olivia,

05:55she said, I never think like that.

05:57That feels weird to say,

05:58I would never address myself.

06:00Other times, Rivera said she thinks

06:02in a more visual way.

06:03She does have songs just pop into her head.

06:04In those cases, she will hear it

06:06in the singer's voice.

06:07Russell Hurlburt,

06:10it's an orc name,

06:12a psychology professor at the University of Nevada

06:15has been studying what he calls

06:16inner experience for more than 40 years.

06:18He's written six books on it

06:20and worked with hundreds of participants.

06:21He gives them each a beeper,

06:22and when it goes off at random times throughout the day,

06:24they'll have to know what's going on in their minds.

06:26He said people generally think in five ways.

06:29Some people experience them all.

06:31Five main ways of thinking.

06:32Inner speaking, inner monologue.

06:34Example, talking to yourself,

06:35hearing your voice or someone else,

06:36or audibly recalling a phone number.

06:39So, I'm trying to think.

06:40I don't want to make this about me.

06:42Okay, you know what?

06:42Let's not make it about me.

06:43Let's just make it about the article.

06:44All right.

06:45It's not about me.

06:46Inner seeing.

06:47See, there's an inner dialogue.

06:49I was just like,

06:49should I make this about me,

06:50or should I tell you the ways that I think?

06:52But then,

06:53I think people are more interested

06:54in how other people think.

06:55I guess that could be one of the things.

06:57See, here I am,

06:57I'm doing it again,

06:58having this argument of the debate with myself.

07:00Is it good to share

07:01the ways in which I think?

07:02Would that be helpful to you?

07:03Or is that kind of self-involved?

07:05And, oh, me, I, me, me, I.

07:07Anyway, so there's my inner debate live

07:09for you to enjoy.

07:11Okay, so inner speaking, inner monologue.

07:13Talking to yourself,

07:14hearing your voice or someone else.

07:15Or audibly recalling a phone number.

07:18The second is inner seeing slash visual imagery.

07:21Thoughts with a visual symbol.

07:22Picturing a memory or a place

07:24you wish you lived.

07:27Feelings.

07:27A conscious experience of emotional process.

07:29Example,

07:30feeling sad after the death of the loved one.

07:32Unsymbolized thinking.

07:33No water images associated with your thoughts.

07:35Pouring your morning coffee cup

07:37without telling yourself to.

07:40Sensory awareness.

07:41Paying attention to a sensory aspect

07:43of the environment

07:44for an unimportant reason.

07:45For example,

07:46hearing someone talk

07:47but seeing the light reflecting

07:48off their glasses.

07:51According to Hulbert.

07:53Hulbert?

07:55Hulbert.

07:56Hulbert.

07:56Oh, they're missing an R.

07:57Oh, my judgy judgeness is occurring.

08:00According to Hulbert,

08:02not many people have an inner monologue

08:04100% of the time,

08:05but most do sometimes.

08:07He estimates that inner monologue

08:08is a frequent thing

08:09for 30 to 50% of people.

08:11He said there are very big

08:13individual differences.

08:14Some people have absolutely none

08:15and some people have pretty close

08:16to 100%.

08:17So,

08:20I think if you've ever had dreams

08:22where there's no talking,

08:24there's no language in particular,

08:26you know,

08:26maybe you're flying over a landscape

08:27or maybe you're swimming

08:28or climbing a mountain

08:29or something like that

08:30and there's no particular dialogue,

08:33I think that's the closest

08:34to understanding

08:35how people without

08:36inner monologues

08:37or dialogues

08:38experience thought.

08:41The pros and cons

08:42of inner monologues.

08:42People who don't have

08:43an active inner monologue

08:44can teach themselves too,

08:45Hulbert said,

08:46but he doesn't think

08:47it's necessarily

08:48a good or bad thing.

08:49He said having,

08:50I guess it's Hulbert,

08:51not Hurlbert.

08:54Okay, that's fine.

08:55It doesn't matter.

08:55Hulbert.

08:56We'll go with Hulbert.

08:57Not,

08:58okay, so.

09:00He said having an inner monologue

09:03can make it easier

09:04for people to create

09:04a sequential plan

09:05and solve logical problems,

09:06but other ways of thinking

09:07have benefits too.

09:09People who see visual imagery

09:11very often see imagery

09:11that doesn't exist

09:12in the real world,

09:13he said.

09:14People who are given credit

09:15for being imaginative

09:16probably don't have much

09:17of an inner monologue.

09:19Yeah, see,

09:19that's the thing too.

09:21I have to,

09:22oh, let's make it repeat.

09:23I think this will be helpful.

09:24I think I have the two modes.

09:25So, for instance,

09:26when I am thinking

09:29rationally,

09:30like creating a logical argument,

09:31working through a syllogism

09:33or a set of philosophical problems,

09:34it's extremely language-based

09:36and I'm very invested in it.

09:40I mean,

09:41I want a certain outcome.

09:42And of course,

09:43I have the self-criticism

09:43to say,

09:44well,

09:44don't fake it

09:46to get the certain outcome

09:47you want.

09:47Like,

09:48try to be critical

09:49and try to push back

09:50against it, right?

09:51But during the time

09:52of actually working

09:52on those arguments,

09:53I'm enthusiastically

09:54putting forward

09:55the arguments,

09:55particularly if they accord

09:56with things like

09:57the non-aggression principle,

09:58property rights,

09:59peaceful parenting,

09:59and so on,

10:00stuff that I'm heavily invested in

10:02and have actually proven.

10:03So, I'm very invested.

10:04So, if somebody makes an argument

10:06that says,

10:07murder is good, right?

10:09Obviously,

10:09I think murder is evil,

10:10so I'm very invested

10:11in pushing back on that.

10:12Or somebody says to me,

10:13free will is an illusion.

10:14I'm very invested in that.

10:15So, I push hard on that

10:17and I'm 100% invested

10:19in making it work

10:19and then after I'm done,

10:21I look back at it

10:21more critically.

10:22On the other hand,

10:23when I'm writing fiction,

10:25if I'm writing a chapter

10:26of my new novel,

10:27I have to be ego-less.

10:29I have to not try

10:31and control the dialogue,

10:32not try and control

10:33the characters

10:33because that way

10:34they're the most vivid

10:35and alive

10:35and I'm not trying to,

10:37in a sense,

10:38conscript them

10:38into serving

10:39a particular philosophical

10:40or moral goal, right?

10:43So, that to me

10:44is the spontaneous

10:47form of writing

10:47has a lot of liveliness

10:49to it,

10:49but is often quite chaotic

10:50and doesn't often

10:51serve a moral goal.

10:52On the other hand,

10:53if you take the sort of

10:54the Ayn Rand route

10:55or the Plato route

10:57and you, in a sense,

10:58conscript the characters

10:59to pursue

11:00a particular narrative

11:01that you want

11:02for a moral

11:03or epistemological goal,

11:05then the characters

11:06tend to be

11:06kind of lifeless.

11:08They tend to be

11:08sort of marionettes.

11:09So, I want the liveliness

11:10of spontaneity,

11:11but I also want to wrestle them

11:12into some sort of

11:13moral narrative.

11:14Otherwise, really,

11:14what's the point

11:15of writing the book?

11:15So, yeah,

11:18with philosophical arguing,

11:20I pour myself

11:21into the arguments

11:22and criticize them afterwards.

11:25With writing,

11:26I just have to be ego-less.

11:29I have to be not there.

11:31I have to be like

11:31a pane of glass

11:32through which you see

11:33a view, right?

11:35If you notice the glass,

11:36then the glass maker

11:38has done a bad job

11:39because it's got ripples

11:39and specks

11:40and spots and bubbles

11:41or something like that.

11:42Like, I need to be

11:43as clear a pane as possible.

11:44I need to be as ego-less

11:45as possible

11:45in order to create

11:47from a fictionist standpoint.

11:49But when it comes

11:49to philosophical arguments,

11:50I have to be

11:51very ego-invested

11:52to get the driving force

11:53to push through

11:54my own inner resistance

11:55and the arguments

11:56of others.

11:57So, all right.

11:59Rivera said that

11:59not having an inner monologue

12:01has been good for her

12:01in some ways

12:02because she can block out

12:03negative memories

12:04or thoughts

12:04relatively easily.

12:06It also brought

12:06some challenges.

12:07She said that

12:08when she was growing up,

12:09her mother often told her

12:09to think before she spoke,

12:11but she couldn't.

12:11I can be blunt

12:13and I have no filter.

12:14Sometimes I say things

12:15I shouldn't say,

12:16she said.

12:16People often know

12:17what I'm thinking

12:17because I will say

12:18exactly what I'm thinking.

12:21Do you really have

12:22an inner monologue

12:22all the time?

12:24Oh, we're back to the R.

12:25Hurlbert said,

12:27the recent buzz

12:28around inner experience

12:29is a good thing

12:29if it leads people

12:30to explore what's really

12:31going on in their minds

12:32rather than believing

12:32it is one way

12:33and not questioning it.

12:35Yeah, I mean,

12:36do you ever get this sense?

12:38I mean, I think really

12:39on social media

12:39it's quite common.

12:42I get the sense

12:43when I'm on social media

12:44and I'm debating

12:46or arguing with people,

12:47I get a sense

12:48that I often encounter

12:52a very foreign

12:53or alien mind.

12:56And again,

12:56foreign or alien

12:57doesn't mean bad,

12:58it just means

12:58really, really dissimilar

13:00from my own mind.

13:03And it's frustrating

13:05because they're frustrated

13:06with me

13:06and I'm frustrated

13:07with them, right?

13:08So I say,

13:09here are my recent arguments

13:10and they say,

13:11I feel that you're wrong.

13:12And that just feels

13:12like I'm encountering

13:13a really, really different mind.

13:16Or I'll put forward

13:17an argument

13:18that I believe

13:20in very passionately

13:21that I think is important

13:22and other people

13:23would get upset

13:24and offended.

13:26Now,

13:26I can often predict,

13:27though not always,

13:28what is going to upset

13:29or offend people,

13:30but, you know,

13:31if it's any consolation

13:32out there,

13:33in case anyone's curious

13:34about this,

13:35I think this is true

13:35of most, quote,

13:36controversial people,

13:38if there's any consolation,

13:40the arguments

13:40that I put out

13:41that offend you,

13:42offend me first, right?

13:44And so other people

13:44are like,

13:45well, how can he be so blunt?

13:46He's got to be,

13:47there's got to be

13:48something wrong with him.

13:49It's like,

13:49well,

13:50but bluntness

13:50is kind of important.

13:51I was raised with,

13:52thou shalt not bear

13:53false witness

13:53and tell the truth

13:54though the skies fall.

13:56And so,

13:57yeah,

13:57I understand it.

13:58I have sympathy.

14:00But for me,

14:00it's like,

14:00well,

14:00I've been able

14:01to overcome

14:01my own,

14:02quote,

14:02offense at what

14:03this sort of fact is

14:05that I'm putting out.

14:06Why can't you?

14:07And other people,

14:08they just seem to go

14:09with that being offended

14:10and because they're offended,

14:11they think that I'm wrong

14:13and they're right,

14:14right?

14:14So,

14:14if you upset me,

14:15Steph,

14:16you're wrong

14:16for upsetting me,

14:18which is such a foreign way

14:19of thinking that

14:20I really have a tough time

14:22getting in there.

14:23All right.

14:23The peace thing too,

14:24right?

14:24Sassy Sunflower wrote,

14:26it's a great name.

14:26I want to know the peace

14:27that comes with not having

14:28a constant inner monologue,

14:29right?

14:30See there,

14:30Sassy Sunflower,

14:31I thought it was a great name.

14:31All right.

14:33Hurlburt said,

14:34what he calls

14:34armchair introspection

14:36likely won't teach you

14:36much about your own mind

14:37because the act of

14:38paying attention

14:39screws up your everyday

14:39inner life.

14:40Right,

14:41so it's hard to read

14:42a book

14:43if you're noticing

14:44what reading a book

14:45is like,

14:46right?

14:47So when you read a book,

14:48when I read this,

14:49I get the words in my head.

14:51I don't hear them like

14:52an audio book

14:53or somebody whispering

14:53in my ear

14:54and they certainly don't form,

14:57the words don't form

14:58in my mind,

14:59like sort of flaming hypertext

15:00or something like that.

15:02But

15:02there is definitely

15:06an internalization

15:07of the language.

15:09And for me,

15:10there's a lot of sort of

15:11thrust and parry

15:11just in conversation.

15:12So as you can sort of hear

15:13when I'm just talking

15:14about this kind of stuff,

15:15I'll say something,

15:16I'll have another thought,

15:18maybe I'll let that thought

15:19interrupt me,

15:19maybe it's a good thought,

15:20maybe it's a bad thought,

15:21should I talk about myself,

15:22should I comment on

15:23whether Sassy Sunflower

15:24is a cool name,

15:25which it is.

15:26And so that inner dialogue

15:28to me is really,

15:29really important.

15:30I don't know

15:31that you can understand

15:33abstract ethics

15:35without an inner dialogue.

15:36And again,

15:37this is not to say

15:37that the people

15:38who don't have

15:38the inner dialogue

15:39or monologue

15:40are not ethical,

15:40but they would be

15:41instinctually ethical

15:42rather than

15:43syllogistically ethical.

15:45And I saw this

15:46when I was arguing

15:47with the atheists recently.

15:48They all said,

15:49well, I tell the truth

15:50because I don't like to lie.

15:51It's too complicated

15:52and difficult for me.

15:53I have to remember

15:54too many stories

15:54and I get social benefits

15:55from telling the truth.

15:58So that's not

15:59syllogistical reasoning.

16:00That's,

16:01I like the benefits

16:02of telling the truth

16:03and I don't like

16:04the feeling or complication

16:05of lying.

16:07But that's hedonistic,

16:08right?

16:08Which is,

16:09I get a reward

16:10for telling the truth

16:11and I get a punishment

16:12from my conscience

16:12or uneasiness when I lie.

16:14That's hedonism.

16:15And I don't know

16:16how people organize

16:17their life morally

16:18when they're just doing

16:19what they like.

16:20That's kind of like saying,

16:21well,

16:21my nutritional plan

16:22is to eat what tastes good

16:23to me

16:23and not eat the things

16:24that don't taste good

16:25to me.

16:25It's like,

16:25that's kind of hedonistic

16:27and maybe you're lucky

16:28and everything your tongue

16:29likes is also good

16:30for your body

16:30but usually the tongue

16:31is at war with the body

16:33in that the tongue

16:33likes fatty,

16:34salty,

16:35sweetie things

16:35and the body

16:36doesn't necessarily do

16:37so well with all

16:38of those things.

16:39So I think

16:40that philosophy

16:41in essence

16:43is really

16:44in the dialogue.

16:46You have to argue

16:46with yourself,

16:47you have to come up

16:47with syllogisms

16:48and syllogisms

16:50are not

16:51instinctual.

16:53They can't be resolved

16:54instinctually

16:54and the people

16:55who are instinctual

16:56usually end up

16:57with this offense

16:58my sensibilities

16:59therefore it's bad

17:01which is like crazy

17:02conservative

17:02in a certain kind

17:03of way.

17:04So yeah,

17:05I'd love to know

17:06what you think.

17:07The other thing too,

17:08last thought,

17:09and I mentioned this

17:09in the conversations

17:11about the inner dialogue

17:11stuff,

17:12is that there are

17:13a lot of engineers

17:14who are very concrete.

17:15This is what my wife

17:16says,

17:16she's a mental health

17:17professional for many

17:17decades.

17:18A lot of engineers

17:19are very concrete

17:20and they're very

17:24intelligent

17:24but they don't

17:26reason with language

17:28a lot of times,

17:28they reason with objects

17:30like there's lots

17:32of people out there

17:32in the world,

17:33East Asians are really

17:33good at this stuff,

17:34rotating 3G objects

17:36in your mind,

17:36right?

17:37I'm not too bad at it

17:38but there's people

17:39that are way,

17:40way better,

17:40right?

17:42Spatial reasoning,

17:43my daughter,

17:43is absolutely fantastic

17:44at spatial reasoning

17:45and it's not a particular

17:47strength of mine.

17:47I tend to focus

17:48or cluster more

17:49on the language

17:49and syllogism side

17:50of things

17:51and so a lot

17:53of times engineers

17:54are very good

17:54at what they do

17:55because they're

17:56fantastic at

17:57manipulating shapes,

17:59objects and so on

18:00in their minds

18:00which is not

18:01a language-based thing,

18:02right?

18:02If you get those things

18:03like how many cubes

18:04are there in this

18:05jumble of cubes

18:07together,

18:07right?

18:07Because you have to

18:08think of all the

18:09middle and the back,

18:09you have to rotate it

18:10in your mind

18:10and figure out

18:11all of that stuff

18:12so that's a particular

18:13type of intelligence

18:14that's fantastic

18:15for getting bridges

18:16built but not

18:16necessarily great

18:17for building

18:17arguments.

18:21So,

18:22I definitely

18:24debate with myself.

18:25I have,

18:26this is a British

18:26thing too,

18:27right?

18:27Like,

18:27am I being

18:28embarrassing?

18:28Am I imposing?

18:30Right?

18:31Am I imposing

18:31on someone?

18:32Like,

18:32I want something

18:33from someone

18:33but am I imposing?

18:35And it can get

18:35kind of paralytic,

18:37right?

18:38I mean,

18:39if you get a,

18:41I have this debate

18:42every time,

18:42every time I'm out

18:43someplace and I'll

18:44pick up a food

18:45or I'll get a coffee

18:46or something like that,

18:46pick up some food

18:47and let's say the

18:49coffee comes

18:49and it's kind of cold

18:50and I'm like,

18:52well,

18:52I don't want them

18:53to waste it,

18:54it'll be fine,

18:56I'm basically just

18:57here for the caffeine,

18:58it doesn't matter

18:59the temperature

18:59and so on

19:00but it's not ideal

19:01or,

19:02you know,

19:02if you order something

19:03and the fries come

19:04and fries are like

19:05a really delicate thing

19:06because they've got

19:06to be crispy,

19:07they don't want

19:07to be soggy

19:08and all of that

19:09and I don't eat

19:09a lot of fries,

19:10I don't want to like,

19:10oh,

19:11I don't eat a lot of fries,

19:12you know,

19:12but I don't generally,

19:13I had some fries yesterday,

19:15I had some fish and chips

19:16wrapped in newspaper,

19:17it's very old school,

19:18very British

19:18and the fries

19:21were kind of soggy

19:22and I was like,

19:23but they're fine,

19:23I don't want them

19:24to make again

19:25and,

19:25right?

19:25But at the same time,

19:26I'm aware that

19:27if I was running a restaurant

19:28and the food

19:29that I was producing

19:30was deficient

19:31in some manner,

19:32I'd really want people

19:33to tell me,

19:33I'd want them to say

19:34this is not great,

19:36here's the problem

19:36because otherwise

19:37people come once or twice,

19:39they get food

19:39that isn't particularly great

19:41and they just won't come back

19:42and I'd much rather

19:43throw out some fries

19:44and keep the customer

19:45than sell a couple

19:46of extra fries

19:47and not keep the customer

19:48so I have this debate,

19:50I don't want to impose

19:51and I also,

19:51you know,

19:52when you grow up poor

19:52you hate throwing out stuff

19:53and you just know

19:54that the food

19:55that they're going to give,

19:56give you,

19:57so the food they take back

19:58they're just going to throw out

19:59and I hate throwing out stuff

20:00because, you know,

20:01when you grow up poor

20:01that's just kind of

20:02an instinct that you have.

20:03So, you know,

20:04having these kinds of debates,

20:05I don't know

20:06how the people

20:07who don't think

20:08in terms of language

20:10in that way,

20:11who don't have

20:11those inner dialogues,

20:12I think they just

20:13have a feeling.

20:14I feel it's okay

20:15to keep it,

20:16I'd feel bad

20:17if I sent it back

20:18rather than having

20:19this debate

20:19and I think

20:21to get to abstractions

20:22and universals

20:22you've just got to have

20:23that inner dialogue.

20:25I think you can get

20:25to the universals

20:26about physical matter

20:27with shape brilliance,

20:30you know,

20:30the engineer rotating shapes

20:32because the shapes,

20:32you know,

20:33cube is universal,

20:33math is universal

20:34and so on,

20:35but math is a form

20:36of language

20:36so I assume

20:38that mathematicians,

20:39although they have

20:40a great grasp

20:40of language,

20:41sorry,

20:41of numbers instinctually,

20:43they still have to verify

20:44it with actual,

20:45you know,

20:45equations and formulas

20:46but I think

20:48you can get to universals

20:49in terms of physics

20:50without language

20:52but when it comes

20:53to abstract values

20:54and virtues,

20:55syllogism's philosophical

20:56arguments

20:57which is where

20:57the absolute truth

20:58of concept formation,

21:01the validity of the senses

21:02and the defense

21:04of free will

21:05and the establishment

21:06of universal ethics,

21:07that's all language based

21:08and I think I face

21:09that challenge

21:10when I'm talking

21:11about these universal ethics

21:12so when the atheists

21:13are coming in

21:14and they're saying

21:15I get benefits

21:17from telling the truth

21:19and I get negatives

21:20from lying

21:20either emotionally

21:21or in terms

21:22of complications

21:22they're saying

21:24I'm lying

21:26because I'm telling the truth.

21:27There's a little bit

21:27of narcissism in that

21:28to some degree

21:29because thinking that

21:31because you don't like

21:32to lie

21:32and you prefer

21:33to tell the truth

21:34that somehow

21:35that becomes a universal

21:36is failing to understand

21:38that there's many people

21:39whose minds

21:40are very different

21:40from yours

21:41and this is what

21:43I kept saying

21:44to the atheists

21:44is like okay

21:45I guess that's fine

21:46for you

21:46but what about

21:47the people

21:48who really like

21:48to tell the truth?

21:49Sorry,

21:50what about the people

21:50who really like

21:51to lie?

21:52What about the people

21:53who get a kick

21:54out of lying?

21:55They get lots of resource

21:56out of lying.

21:57Lying is their most efficient

21:58way to get resources.

21:59What about them?

22:00How do you get them

22:01to not lie?

22:01If you're going to say

22:02hedonism is the foundation

22:03and I should tell the truth

22:05because it feels good

22:05to tell the truth

22:06and it feels bad to lie

22:07that is not a universal experience.

22:08Lots of people lie

22:09to get resources.

22:12I mean

22:12if you're an atheist

22:13you think that religion

22:14is false.

22:15Religion gets a lot more

22:16resources than atheism does

22:17and so if you're

22:19an atheist

22:20you know

22:21that a lot of people

22:21get resources by lying

22:23and how do you convince

22:24them to tell the truth

22:25which is why

22:25I go with sort of

22:26the universal

22:26syllogistical ethics

22:28and virtues

22:28because that's a way

22:29of getting people

22:30to change their behavior

22:31outside of hedonism.

22:33Right?

22:33So anyway

22:34I'm curious what you think

22:35and I mean

22:37does your social circle

22:38include different kinds

22:40of thinkers?

22:43I don't know

22:43that mine does.

22:44I'm sort of reviewing this.

22:46I don't know

22:46that mine does.

22:47Certainly in my friends

22:48we tend to be pretty

22:49inner dialogue

22:50inner monologue focused

22:52but friend of friends

22:53and you know

22:55if I'm friends with

22:56families as I am

22:57with kids

22:58not all of the kids

22:59are language based

23:00and yeah

23:02it is a challenge.

23:03It's almost like

23:04you just need to get

23:05into a completely

23:06different mindset

23:06in order to have

23:07effective communications

23:08or just stay on

23:09the shallower topics

23:10you know

23:11news and weather

23:11and stuff like that

23:12because I think

23:13once you start to go deep

23:14the thinking styles

23:16really diverge

23:17to the point

23:17where I don't even know

23:18that there's a translator

23:19that can get

23:20get across the gap.

23:22All right

23:22thanks

23:22I hope that you find

23:23this interesting

23:24free domain.com

23:25slash donate

23:25to help out the show

23:26lots of love my friends

23:28bye

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