Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ) and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) had a tense moment in today's Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, which Booker diffused with some humor and bridge-building.
00:00Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to address your comments in a moment, but I ask the leave of the committee for a point of personal privilege.
00:09I want to acknowledge a member of my staff who's leaving.
00:11Yashi Gunawardina has served with my staff for over four years, personal office and committee,
00:18worn many hats, including serving as a professional staff member and nominations clerk.
00:22She's excelled in every role.
00:24Early on in her time with us, Yashi worked on Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's confirmation hearing.
00:31If you're a federal judge who's come before us in the past year, it's safe to say that Yashi played a key role in your confirmation.
00:39She also works on protecting reproductive rights, an issue she's passionate about.
00:44Although she's leaving D.C., she isn't going too far.
00:47Next month, she'll begin law school at the University of Virginia.
00:50Please join me in thanking Yashi for her service to the committee.
00:54Thanks, Mr. Chairman, for your statement at the outset of this hearing as well about last week's markup.
01:09We were surprised by the amount of time we were given to discuss the 10 nominees.
01:13I remember expressly what you did say, that you wanted to call the role at 1030.
01:19You made that point early on.
01:22I didn't know if that was a hard and fast rule, but you did say it.
01:26I will acknowledge that point.
01:28I want to address the claim that this was based on precedent.
01:33The precedent for cutting off debate and overriding committee rules by majority was established by three Republican chairmen.
01:39Chairman Hatch, who in 2003 cut off debate on two judicial nominees.
01:45Yourself in 2018, cutting off the debate on Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to the Supreme Court.
01:51Chairman Graham, who in 2019 cut off debate on a partisan immigration bill.
01:56In 2020, cut off debate on Amy Coney Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Court.
02:00I believe what happened last week was different from what I did in 2023 when I cut off debate on two district court nominees.
02:08In that case, the nominees were on the markup for the fourth time.
02:12They had already had nearly two hours of debate on the nominees, and every member of the committee had already had an opportunity to speak.
02:20In fact, we'd already voted on the nominees, and the only reason we came back was one of our members from Minnesota stepped off the floor at an inopportune moment,
02:28and then came back on the floor and tried to register her vote in person.
02:33And we weren't certain that that would stand up to the test of whether it was a valid roll call, and we started over for another go-around.
02:41During my four years as chair of this committee, I provided members on both sides of the aisle with ample time to debate before calling votes.
02:49The bottom line is this.
02:50The Senate parliamentarian has been clear that a chairman can override committee rules by a vote of the majority of the committee.
02:55Both Republican and Democratic chairs have done that in the past.
02:59I think each of us would say that we did not relish it.
03:02But this committee has a long tradition of robust debate, and I especially appreciate your comments about trying to recognize that precedent in your own administration as chairman.
03:13I understand our staffs have sat down in a peaceful way and talked this over,
03:18and I'm looking forward to respecting the fact that we all have busy schedules,
03:22that we still have ample time to debate these lifetime appointments because that's an important part of our responsibility.
03:29I thank you.
03:30I'm going to withhold my statement beyond that point so that we can move on.
03:34Now, if I could explain proceeding today, by agreement with the minority, we'll first voice vote all U.S. attorneys except for Peril.
03:48And we'll do that in block.
03:51After a voice vote, I'll open the floor for debate on the nomination of Jeanne Peril.
03:58Mr. Chairman.
03:58Before her roll call vote, after the Peril vote, we'll proceed to the bills.
04:06So we'll now voice.
04:09Mr. Chairman.
04:11May I say something about the comments of the ranker and the chair on that matter of last week?
04:18I hope you can do it quickly.
04:20Go ahead.
04:20Mr. Chairman, both you and the ranking member said that the cutting off of debate had been done a handful of times.
04:29It was not relished by either the majority when it was a Republican majority or Democratic majority.
04:35But the sentence that was said by both you and the ranking member was that you can end debate with a majority vote.
04:44I think what I said to you in a private conversation, I appreciate and what I want to just say here is that's not how it was done last week.
04:54We didn't have a vote.
04:56And that's what I was asking for time and time again during that episode.
05:02So clearly, I know the rules.
05:05Clearly, I've checked with the parliamentarian.
05:08We can override the rules of the committee, but there should be a vote.
05:11And you began to call a vote, but then you were cut off by staff.
05:16And then we pushed the vote through.
05:18And the reason why it upsets me so much is because the debate was on a judge for my state on the Third Circuit.
05:28We've created a climate in this country that is deepening and deepening a reflexive tribalism
05:35where people aren't interested in listening to the facts anymore, listening to each other.
05:41Tribalism kills curiosity.
05:43It kills the will to listen with an open heart or open mind to your opposition, even if you disagree with them or think you'll disagree with them.
05:53And that's something that this committee, I think, needs to foster.
05:58I am very troubled this last month because I've seen people who want to come forward with things on this nominee,
06:08but they are so terrified of being doxxed or targeted or threatened or worse.
06:18The rising tide of hate.
06:21Both of us on both of our parties have seen this.
06:26Judges in my district that are taking extra steps to protect themselves.
06:30The climate is getting so, so bad.
06:33I want to say to my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that this culture of fear is affecting our ability to deliberate and do our job.
06:43A whistleblower came here to this committee with information that was disregarded.
06:48There is another person that's come forward to me through their attorneys.
06:52And so I just ask my colleagues, if you believe that, do you believe that a nominee who is not truthful under oath before this committee should not be confirmed?
07:03Do you believe that a nominee that comes before this committee that is not forthcoming and truthful should be confirmed?
07:08Do you believe that understanding the intent of a question requires a nominee to answer it honestly and not try to evade the question because they understand the intent of the question?
07:18If you believe these things, and since we can't have debate here, but before this person comes to the floor, on the record, I want to invite people to come to talk to me.
07:27And I will provide you with substantive information that should have been discussed in this hearing.
07:31Clearly, it's not.
07:33Clearly, we can't have debate.
07:35But we have substantive information relevant to the truthfulness of this nominee.
07:40And I'm hoping more of my colleagues in this climate of fear and intimidation and rushed votes would want to know the truth before the final vote.
07:50Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
07:52I'd like to respond to you.
07:55You and I had a private conversation.
07:58And I'm not going to say anything that you said.
08:00But it was a fruitful conversation as far as I'm concerned after our last meeting.
08:05But remember, one of the things that I told you was that we had this conflict with other committees.
08:12And remember that I told you that you've got to have 100 senators together to solve this country's problems.
08:22Now, there's enough work for an individual senator to do seven days a week if he wants to.
08:28But you're never going to solve this country's problems just working two and a half days a week like we did under Schumer and now under Thune.
08:38We've got to get this back on a five-day work week, Monday through Friday, like it was the first 25 years I served in the United States Senate.
08:49We'd start at 10 on Monday and go to 4 on Friday.
08:52And then you don't have to have all of these meetings coming on a Thursday afternoon or a Thursday morning because you've got more days to do it.
09:04I always had an agreement with Senator Hatch when he was chairman of the finance committee and I was chairman of this committee that we wouldn't be having our meetings on the same day because we worked it out.
09:24Now, that was still a very short week.
09:26But if we put in more time here, we wouldn't have to have these meetings all going at the same time.
09:32So why don't you talk to Schumer and I'll talk to Thune about working a five-day week?
09:38Mr. Chairman, I just want to say in my – I've only had 14 years here.
09:42You were one of the best people I've had to work with over those 14 years because, as I said, as last week's proceedings were going on, I feel like I know you.
09:51And I appreciate what you said and I actually agree with you 100%.
09:56And I especially like when Chuck Grassley gets cantankerous because that's the best Chuck Grassley.
10:02So I just want to say I'm not arguing with any of that and I appreciate it.
10:05I'm just simply saying that I feel like I have – it's killing me that on this nominee there is evidence that the nominee misled the committee.
10:14And we have not – I have not even got the chance for my colleagues to listen to the evidence and that's what frustrates me.
10:21But, sir, I cannot tell you I appreciated our private conversation and the 14 years we've had of working together.
10:27And I'm hoping that we can do a better job moving forward.
10:32Now, I'm hoping that we can move the way I suggested.
10:35We'll let anybody debate all they want to about Jeanine Pirro.
10:42But we now move to en bloc votes by voice on Kurt Almey, Nicholas Chase, Leslie Wood Murphy, Daniel Rosen, Eric Siebert, and Kurt Wall.
10:58Those in favor say aye.
11:00Aye.
11:01Opposed say no.
11:03No.
11:03These people will be reported.
11:06Mr. Chairman, can I be recorded no on all of these?
11:09I'd like to be recorded no.
11:10I'd like to be recorded as well as a no.
11:13I heard Booker.
11:15I hear from –
11:16Let me – I'd like to be recorded as a no vote on Kurt Almey, Leslie Murphy –
11:20Who was the third one?
11:22Kurt Wall and Nicholas Chase.
11:26Oh, just on specific ones?
11:28Yes.
11:30Booker's on all of them, right?
11:31And I would like to be recorded as no on all.
11:34On all of them?
11:35Okay.
11:36And you?
11:38I'd like to be recorded as a no vote on Kurt Almey, Leslie Murphy, Kurt Wall, and Nicholas Chase.
11:45Okay.
11:46I wanted to give a brief statement on my nominee.
11:50Okay.
11:50Mr. Chairman, please.
11:51Mr. Chairman, if I could on the recorded vote.
11:55Unless this is on –
11:58On all of them, Senator Schiff?
12:00No, on individual ones, if this is the appropriate time, or after Senator Klobuchar.
