- 7/24/2025
Wisdom Kaye has redefined what it means to be a fashion creator in the digital age. In this episode of the Forbes Top Creators Show, he breaks down how he went from engineering student to one of the most recognized fashion voices online—just by posting simple outfit videos with friends after class. Wisdom shares the moment a pair of $40 boots changed his life, how he negotiated his first brand deals solo, and what it takes to stay authentic while building a business.
00:00 – Intro: Meet Wisdom Kaye
01:00 – From Texas Dorm Room to Fashion Stardom
02:30 – The $40 Boots That Changed Everything
04:00 – Early Viral Videos and TikTok Growth
05:30 – Leaving Engineering for Content and Style
07:00 – First Brand Deals and Signing With IMG
09:00 – Building a Solo Creative Business
11:00 – Balancing Artistic Vision With Algorithms
13:00 – Editing All-Nighters and Workflow Challenges
15:00 – How Social Media Reshaped Fashion
17:00 – Working With Brands the Authentic Way
19:00 – Audience, Impact, and The Met Gala Moment
21:30 – Wisdom’s Vision for Fashion’s Future
23:00 – Advice for Brands on Connecting With Gen Z
29:30 – Final Thoughts: Culture, Creativity, and What’s Next
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00:00 – Intro: Meet Wisdom Kaye
01:00 – From Texas Dorm Room to Fashion Stardom
02:30 – The $40 Boots That Changed Everything
04:00 – Early Viral Videos and TikTok Growth
05:30 – Leaving Engineering for Content and Style
07:00 – First Brand Deals and Signing With IMG
09:00 – Building a Solo Creative Business
11:00 – Balancing Artistic Vision With Algorithms
13:00 – Editing All-Nighters and Workflow Challenges
15:00 – How Social Media Reshaped Fashion
17:00 – Working With Brands the Authentic Way
19:00 – Audience, Impact, and The Met Gala Moment
21:30 – Wisdom’s Vision for Fashion’s Future
23:00 – Advice for Brands on Connecting With Gen Z
29:30 – Final Thoughts: Culture, Creativity, and What’s Next
Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
Stay Connected
Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com
Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes
Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes
More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00People have this ability to sort of create their own worlds online.
00:03It's given so many, it gives a lot more opportunity to different people.
00:08And now people have more role models and more people to aspire to and more people to watch
00:12than just who you saw on the silver screen.
00:17Hey everybody, welcome to the Forbes Top Creator Show.
00:20I'm Forbes editor Steve Bertone, here today with creator, fashionista.
00:26Is it fashionista? I don't think, is that called guys fashionistas?
00:28I'll take a fashionista.
00:30Fashionista, top model, Wisdom K. Wisdom, thank you for joining us.
00:33Thank you so much. Amazing intro. I need that on my Google thing. When you Google my name, I need that.
00:37I'll be your publicist. I only messed it up a couple times.
00:40Thanks for joining us here and for the photo shoot. This is awesome.
00:42Yeah, it's been great. It's been great.
00:44I want to start with the beginning. Talk to me about how you started your career in fashion, in influence, in social media.
00:52You know, it all started, it was dark. And I remember the warmth of a pair of hands. And the next thing I know, I was in some room. I was just crying a lot. I don't know. I don't know what was going on.
01:05But no, that's actually way too early. But I think it really started, I want to say, well, you know, moving around a lot. I moved around a lot in Texas.
01:12And so as a result, I never really, I never really, there wasn't really anything that kind of gave me a sense of security, I think.
01:18And I kind of discovered through fashion that I was able to sort of fit in a bit easier. You know, when you're always a new kid, it's a bit hard.
01:26And then, you know, I'm really tall. So it's hard to blend in and kind of be unnoticed.
01:30Okay.
01:30So it was just really what other kids were wearing at the time. And then I think when I went off to college, I, there was a bunch of vintage stores nearby my campus.
01:39And I just started checking those out. And I was like, oh, I kind of like vintage clothing. And a lot of it was like vintage 60s, 70s clothing, you know, leather jackets, flare pants, things like that.
01:48And I remember there was a black pair of boots beat up, you know, just, I think they're like floors high in boots or something like that.
01:56They're like 40 bucks. Now at the time, I like, all the money I had was just like food. And I was kind of like, do I spend my food money on a pair of $40 boots?
02:04Because that would have, I think, cut me in half. But I remember I went home or went to my dorm and I dreamt about it.
02:10And the next day I was like, I need those. Something tells me to get those boots.
02:13And it kind of completely changed kind of how I was wearing clothes when I actually got them.
02:17So good initial investment, I thought for myself at the time.
02:20You still have them?
02:21I still, I still have them, but they're in Texas.
02:23Okay.
02:23Yeah. Basically, I started dressing a little different, you know, frequenting the vintage stores.
02:28And my friends were like, dude, you should like make videos and put them online.
02:32And I was kind of like, why would I, why would I do that? You know, I, you know, it didn't make sense.
02:36But then, you know, after a while, I just kind of gave in and I just started posting those videos.
02:40It was literally like basically after class, my friends would, you know, meet up with me and we'd just take a quick little three second clip
02:46of whatever I was wearing, put it into a compilation, post it on the internet, went to sleep.
02:51Next day I woke up, Twitter, a hundred thousand likes, Instagram, you know, TikTok, just everything.
02:57And I was like, why not just do that again?
03:00But around this time, this, this, this little, it's a little disease called COVID.
03:04I don't know if you heard about it.
03:04Yeah. The small, small, small little thing going around, a little sniffle.
03:07It, you know, started coming around everywhere and I had to go back home.
03:11School was closed down for a while.
03:13Were you in school, by the way?
03:14I was at Texas State.
03:15Okay, cool.
03:15Yeah, yeah, yeah.
03:16I was studying mechanical engineering.
03:18And then literally I was at home and I was like, okay, well, I guess I'll just make more videos in my room.
03:22And then just kind of took off from there.
03:24I love the combination of like mechanical engineer, but then you're doing high fashion and, and design.
03:30I love that.
03:31That's, that's, that's, that's a cool combination.
03:32My family's like a lawyer, doctor, engineer, very traditional mindset about, you know, everything, you know, get your degree or whatever.
03:38So I really didn't have much of a choice.
03:40Do you have a degree in mechanical engineering?
03:42I did not.
03:42Once, once everything started working out, I was like, oh, okay, bye-bye.
03:45That's awesome.
03:45In high school, you said you started doing, you know, getting into fashion.
03:49You remember like the first, what was like your style?
03:51And you remember like the first, when you first noticed that you're into fashion, like what was that first thing you bought that like made you feel like, okay, this is different.
03:58This is like stylish versus like, you know, when I was in high school, it was like maybe jeans and sweatpants and whatever clean shirt was out.
04:05Like wasn't thinking that, like what was, what grabbed you?
04:08Well, you know, at the time it had a little bit more to do with sort of fitting in.
04:14So ultimately it was, it was very much brand heavy.
04:17It was kind of what, you know, wearing the same brands as my peers.
04:19Okay.
04:20So whether it was like Obey, Supreme, like kind of more street wear kind of stuff, that was really what it was.
04:25I think there was a shoe, this was like a little bit before high school, really.
04:30My, I got a pair of LeBron 11s.
04:33Okay.
04:34Which like, I never played basketball, but basketball shoes used to be a huge thing, like Kobe's and things like that.
04:39And I remember I got the shoes and my street credit went up.
04:42I was like, wow, this is before I even had like an actual credit score.
04:45And I was like, this is pretty cool.
04:46And then I kind of ran those into the ground because that was like the one time I'd ever have a cool pair of shoes.
04:51But that was, that was the thing that kind of was like, oh, what I wear is kind of like, you know, people, people see that and form their own sort of opinions and all that.
05:00It's like, what was your, do you remember like that first post that made you think, you know what, like I'm going to ditch this engineering track and become a full-time online social creator?
05:09It's interesting.
05:10It was, it was more of an amalgamation of like your trajectory, right?
05:13It wasn't, I wouldn't say it was a specific post.
05:15There are certain posts that like went viral in the earlier days.
05:18I remember for reference, there was this one I made to Megan Thee Stallion song.
05:21I think the name of the song is Savage, where that would, it kind of started a trend to the lyrics of the song.
05:28And so I would just, she had certain words and I would dress to the lyrics.
05:31And so that was one of my earliest big viral ones.
05:34I think one of the earliest ones was like making outfits inspired by like emojis and things like that.
05:39Those were really early ones.
05:40But really it was just sort of seeing the growth and seeing that people were really interested in the way I was interpreting things.
05:45And I was like, oh, okay, cool.
05:46This could be a thing.
05:47And I just kept doing more of that.
05:49When did this start to become like a full-time business for you?
05:51Maybe like three months, maybe like March, March of 2020.
05:58So at this point, I'm back home from school.
06:01At this point, school is kind of picked up online.
06:03So I'm still going to class.
06:04Yeah, March 2020 is like pure, like that's like when COVID, the panic start.
06:07Exactly.
06:08Yeah.
06:08So I'm still, I'm still, I'm going online class.
06:10I'm at home.
06:11And at this point, I'm doing, I'm doing everything myself.
06:13So, you know, different companies are reaching out to me and they're like, you know, we want you to do this, do that.
06:19And I'm basically keeping track of, I'm negotiating my own rates.
06:22I'm keeping track of all that.
06:23I'm like literally a notebook piece of paper that I put up on my wall.
06:26Um, the interesting thing about it was that like prior to this, I had never had any sort of job in my life.
06:33So this was like my first time having to receive money and like handle it and balance it.
06:38Um, and I really didn't even know what I was doing.
06:40I think I was like 18 or 19 really at this point.
06:42It was really all just school, school, school, school, school.
06:45That was it.
06:46It was, you know, get all A's, go to school, get the degree.
06:48That was like, it was a very different life I was living prior to this.
06:51So that was just how I was balancing it.
06:53So at that point already, I had already become a bit of a business thing.
06:56Cause I was like kind of balancing my checkbooks in a way.
06:58Um, but then I would say maybe about two or three months after that, um, agencies started to email me.
07:04And at this point I was like, Oh, I don't know anything about agencies.
07:07I have no idea who's who and what's what.
07:09So I had to do a bit of research on that.
07:11And one of the, a lot of them were modeling agencies or some of them were talent agencies as well.
07:15And I was like, okay, well, the modeling agency side, I am, I was like, IMG, this seems like one of the, one of the big guys.
07:20I was like, all right, I'll just wait till IMG hits me up.
07:23You know, thinking that probably wouldn't happen.
07:25That's good.
07:25High standards.
07:26Yeah.
07:27You know, just because I was like, I don't really know what this is.
07:29And I figured if I'm going to sign, maybe I'll just sign to the biggest one.
07:32Just literally putting that out there.
07:33I had no idea that literally like a few weeks later that would actually happen.
07:37And I remember I got an email and I didn't open reply to the email for like a week because I thought it was fake.
07:42I was like, there's just no way that that actually happened.
07:45But eventually I answered the email and then basically onboarding with them and everything.
07:48So that took everything to a very different level because I was negotiating for myself, not really understanding a how to do it or, you know, how anything worked legally.
07:57You know what I mean?
07:58So obviously having a, you know, brilliant team like that to kind of handle and facilitate those things changed the game a lot for me.
08:04Do you remember your first brand deal?
08:06It was in college.
08:07It was Doc Martens.
08:08It was $300 to take photos in their 1460 Bex boots.
08:12So I did that around campus with my friend.
08:14I'll never forget that that was just such a cool moment where I was like, oh, I can get paid to do this.
08:19It was really cool.
08:20And at that point, I only posted the one video or two videos at that point online.
08:23So it wasn't even like I'd started yet.
08:25So that's why it was also such a shock.
08:26Yeah, you must have thought like, wow, $300 just to wear a free pair of shoes?
08:29As a college kid, like, oh, heck yeah, I'll take that any day of the week for sure.
08:32Yeah.
08:32What was your first kind of like brand deal that moved the needle for you?
08:37To be honest, it was the first one that was negotiated by my team at IMG.
08:42Okay.
08:42And obviously WME at large.
08:44It was, I think it was American Eagle back in 2020.
08:47I think I had done something with them.
08:49And then they came back.
08:50They wanted to do something again with me.
08:51And during this point, I'm talking and negotiating.
08:54And basically they took over that, the negotiation process.
08:58They did their magic on that, essentially.
09:00Now, fast forward to today, like what is like your day in the life?
09:04What is the Wisdom K business right now?
09:07It's a very sporadic and interesting thing.
09:10Reason being when you have to operate kind of fully out of yourself and be your own sort
09:16of boss and then also the employee and also the hands that behind the scenes, in front
09:21of the scenes, in modeling, editing.
09:22Yeah.
09:22It's kind of fully dependent on me sort of like having the discipline to do the things
09:28I need to do on all of those fronts.
09:29Okay.
09:30Right.
09:30So in a singular day, I might have to enter a bunch of emails.
09:33I might also have to spend a few hours editing things.
09:36On top of that, I might have to spend hours styling and doing all that stuff.
09:39So it's, I can't really tell you what, there is no day to day because it's not like a wake
09:45up, do this and do that and do that.
09:47It's kind of just like what needs to be done, if that makes sense.
09:51The one thing I do try to do consistently is every Sunday, I have a note sheet and I
09:55have like, you know, obviously different calendars and I'll make sure that for the
09:59following week I've prepared all the things I need to do because it was one thing I struggled
10:03with was I would have 50 things to do and I would just look at all 50 at the same
10:07time and I'm like, I wouldn't be able to do anything.
10:09Yeah.
10:09You get overwhelmed.
10:10You get overwhelmed.
10:10Paralysed.
10:10Exactly.
10:11So I had to learn to compartmentalize and be like, okay, let's do five things Monday,
10:16six things Tuesday, two things on Wednesday, really break it up to make it more manageable.
10:20So I try to do that on Sunday.
10:21I'll look at everything, break it up through the week and kind of assess it as the week
10:24goes on.
10:25And, you know, obviously that'll, even that changes because then I'll get a text and it's
10:28wisdom.
10:28I need to approve this or we need your feedback on this or, you know, this just came in.
10:32So I have to kind of change the schedule, add things, remove things.
10:35I even have to start doing simple things like, you know, taking out the trash or certain
10:39health things because I didn't realize that also keeping care of my home and then taking
10:44care of myself, those are also things that take time out of the day.
10:48So even factoring those things in, because you have to kind of balance the personal and
10:52the work when you have to work fully out of home and, you know, as your own person
10:56and all those things.
10:57I can tell you have the engineer mind.
10:58You have the systems, the systems mind for sure.
11:00I had to learn that.
11:01Yeah.
11:01How do you come up with ideas for posting?
11:03Like, how do you come up with inspiration and then how do you make content?
11:06How do you pull it off?
11:08It's a, it's a mixed bag.
11:09It's a bit of being inspired by my audience and people who enjoy my content.
11:13Yeah.
11:14And also it's just ideas that I may have.
11:17So I've kept the, it's about three or four of them now.
11:20I have different notes.
11:20Anytime I have an idea, I write it down immediately because I read somewhere that like an idea
11:25floats around until somebody decides they want to do something about it.
11:28Okay.
11:28So once an idea comes in, I just write it down because, you know, I might not be able
11:32to do it in that moment.
11:33So I have ideas dating back till 2020, just like years and years and years of things that
11:37I haven't even been able to touch because I'm always coming up with new ones.
11:39So what I'll do is essentially, um, part of what I said on a Sunday, on top of the tasks
11:44that I have to do, it's also a matter of like, what projects am I feeling the most passionate
11:48about that I want to pursue?
11:49Yeah.
11:49So then I'll have to sort of start the process of, you know, styling this project, doing that
11:53on top of that, there might be something that's more culturally relevant that makes more sense.
11:58So I might have to move something back that I was going to do on Monday because something
12:02is happening right now that I have to get to immediately, because if I don't do it right
12:05now, it won't make sense to do it in the next few days, if that makes sense.
12:09So you have to kind of acclimatize and move things around and kind of figure out what
12:12works.
12:12But, um, yeah, it's pretty much just seeing what people are talking about.
12:16What's the culture talking about, what are my fans want to see from me?
12:19And then what do I also really want to do?
12:20And kind of finding a way to piece those, uh, things together.
12:23When you do a shoot, like obviously all your, a lot of your posts, like fashion shoots,
12:27like what goes behind, what goes into all those?
12:29Yeah.
12:29I mean, so, um, whenever I produce any of my video content, um, it's very much me directing,
12:36you know, modeling and doing all that stuff.
12:38Um, I work with one of my good friends who helps me, um, record everything now, because prior
12:42of that, it was literally a case of hit record, do what I got to do, go back, check the video,
12:47do that like over and over again until it's right.
12:49It's very time consuming, makes the process a lot longer.
12:52So now that I'm working with somebody who can kind of help me facilitate and knows kind
12:55of what I look for helps kind of streamline that a little bit.
12:58So that's pretty much the process of filming the thing.
13:01And then after that, usually I have this bad habit of wanting to edit immediately.
13:05Okay.
13:05The downside with that is that like, if I start filming at like, let's say five and
13:09we end filming at like, let's say 9 PM, I'll start editing at 10 to like 6 AM in the morning.
13:13And now everything's kind of out of whack as a result, because it's the most enjoyable
13:17part of the process.
13:18So I kind of want to start it immediately.
13:19But sometimes, you know, I try now to sort of, you know, save a space for that on a, in
13:23a healthier kind of schedule.
13:25What are your sources for inspiration?
13:26Like, where do you look to, are there certain designers or certain sites?
13:30So there's certain, you know, periodicals, like where do you get your ideas and like
13:34your, you know, your style from?
13:35When it comes into my personal style, it's kind of just an amalgamation of just things
13:40that I see, right?
13:41Like ultimately growing up in this age of the internet means that like inspiration is
13:46so easily accessible.
13:48It's not the case of like, you know, having to necessarily meet somebody or go to this
13:53place or do that, even though that does also happen in that you, I still get inspiration
13:56from there.
13:57It can happen in just a moment's notice, right?
13:59A lot of the time I'm very inspired by the people I see, right?
14:01Whether I'm, you know, being in New York, you see all sorts of people everywhere.
14:04Just being on the subway, you get inspiration.
14:05There you go.
14:06Exactly.
14:06So a lot of times that can help inspire me.
14:08A lot of times it's just, you know, a random image I see online where I'm like, I kind
14:12of like the way this balances with that.
14:13And I'll maybe screenshot something and try to be inspired by that in some way.
14:18So, you know, that's on the personal style and for the content.
14:21And, you know, like I said, like whether it's people recommending me things or whatever,
14:24when it comes to the actual editing process and how I decide I want to do that, I try
14:29my best to storyboard, rarely ever happens because I'm so sporadic and there's never
14:34really like a full-blown process to doing it.
14:37It's kind of just like, let's do that, let's do that, let's do that.
14:40And then as I'm editing, I'm like, oh, wait, this could also work, you know?
14:43So it's just, it happens.
14:46Everything's just sort of like in the spur of it all, you know?
14:49I love it.
14:49What is kind of the effect of social media now on fashion?
14:52Even a decade ago, I remember I grew up in New York.
14:55I mean, I was living in New York.
14:56My wife was in fashion.
14:58All the fashion shows, front row, were all magazine editors, you know, like the Vogue,
15:02the Women's Wear Daily, the W, you name it.
15:05Now all the front rows are influencers, Instagram, you name it.
15:10Like what is the state of fashion on social media?
15:12It's funny because I started getting into it fully when things started taking off.
15:18You know, when COVID happened, everyone's at home and I just think, you know, you think
15:21about like TikTok specifically and you think about how so many people were getting on that
15:24platform and how people were more in tune with content creation really at that time.
15:30I think it kind of gave people an opportunity to sort of explore that and people were, you
15:33know, watching more than ever.
15:34And I feel like nowadays content is really this sort of centralized thing where people are
15:42really just watching their phones.
15:43We've seen it gradually over time, obviously, you know, but now I think it's like people
15:48are entertained on the phone, whether it's, you know, streamers, content creators, long
15:52form, short form, you name it.
15:53I think that's what people really gravitate to when it comes to what do I do when I'm
15:57off of work now, right?
15:58Like how do I unwind?
16:00You know, it's kind of the main thing.
16:01So I think as a result, because it's so culturally relevant, that's why you see the, you know,
16:06the content creators and whoever's at those front rows.
16:08And I think it's a smart move as well, because again, if that's what the conversation is,
16:13is that's what the zeitgeist is, is that's what people are talking about, this creator,
16:16that creator, then you want to have so-and-so at the event.
16:20I think it's kind of like, you know, nowadays when we think about the, you know, the celebrity
16:24or the influencer or who people are looking at, that's a bit more decentralized because
16:28it's not more, it's not so much the A-list movie star or whatever.
16:32Now that people have this ability to sort of create their own worlds online, it's given
16:37so many, it gives a lot more opportunity to different people.
16:41And now people have more role models and more people to aspire to, more people to watch
16:45than just who you saw on the silver screen.
16:47So as a result, I think that's why we see that nowadays.
16:50What brands have you worked with and how do you work with brands?
16:53I mean, I'd have to pull out an Elder Scroll.
16:55That was just kind of on the, it is a long list.
16:57And thankfully, I'm very, I'm very happy that I can even say that, of course.
16:59But I mean, I've had the privilege to be able to work with so many brands from the tech
17:04side, from the fashion space, from, you know, hospitality restaurants.
17:10I mean, a lot of different companies and organizations for sure.
17:14I mean, I don't know where to even start, to be honest, if I'm being honest with you.
17:17How do you work with them?
17:18Like what makes for a good brand partnership?
17:21What makes for a good relationship?
17:22What's the best way for like a brand and you to come together and make like a compelling
17:26piece of content?
17:27I think the best way, and thankfully, I've done this enough to really understand what
17:31does work, is to just kind of let me do what I want to do, putting it very simply.
17:37And the reason I do say that, though, is, you know, with and with all the greatest and
17:42highest respect for the companies that I've worked with, there is this thing I've noticed
17:45where it's kind of like there's a chase for authenticity a lot.
17:48But the only issue is sometimes that chase for authenticity comes with a lot of guidelines.
17:52And it's kind of like, well, that's not what authenticity is, right?
17:55It's not do this, do that, do that, do that.
17:57That's authenticity is a case by case thing.
17:59What is authentic to so-and-so is not going to be authentic to another person.
18:02And so it's a matter of meeting somebody where they are and understanding what is their
18:06authenticity, right?
18:07Because I think for me, for example, with what I do, having me put my phone up like this
18:13and record the whatever, that's not authentic to what I do, right?
18:16A lot of people, that is what they do, because a lot of people are comfortable doing that.
18:19And that is their content.
18:20But what I do is not that.
18:22So it's kind of a thing where I've had to have those discussions and be like, well, look,
18:25I understand that that's kind of what you picture as this version of authenticity.
18:30But also, that's not really what, like, my audience would see that and be like, that's
18:33not, like, what does he do?
18:34You know what I mean?
18:35Like, they would know.
18:35They would see it so quick that that's not me.
18:37And they would know.
18:38So it's a thing where you have the conversation and you talk to them about what will work,
18:43what won't work.
18:44But also, sometimes a lot of brands are very stringent on what they want.
18:47It's a lot more specific.
18:48We want to see this specifically.
18:50And, you know, you kind of have to meet them where they're at and just sort of, you know,
18:54put my best foot forward in kind of what they want to see.
18:56But you have to have the conversation, I think, and about kind of what works.
18:59What is authentic to wisdom?
19:00What is like your, what's your style?
19:03What's your voice?
19:03How would you describe it?
19:04I have about four or five very specific kinds of videos that I put out.
19:09Reason why it's that is because through a lot of experimenting, I kind of found the things
19:13that work.
19:13And so as a result, I kind of try to do each one of these things and I tweak them each
19:18time.
19:18So obviously they're entertaining and people still keep watching them.
19:21But anything within those worlds, right?
19:23So when we start talking about ways we want you to do something like this or like that,
19:26that's kind of exists outside those worlds.
19:28It needs to become a thing where, okay, I now have to be able to tweak that in a way that
19:33makes sense within what people already expect from me on, you know, within the content that
19:38I produce.
19:39Otherwise you do kind of run the risk of things feeling very out of place.
19:43You know what I mean?
19:44It's kind of like, for example, if, you know, my content where I style different concepts
19:48or style different things, you know, is people, that's something that people really like to
19:51see.
19:51Right.
19:52And then if we start trying to do that, but in a, I don't know, if, if, if, if we start
19:57trying to do that in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense to kind of the way I already
20:01do it or, or trying to take it and put a spit on it, that may not really mix it.
20:04You know, there's, there's ways you have, it's very conversational.
20:06It's kind of case by case, you know what I mean?
20:08And, and depending on what the conversation is and how people want to see it versus how
20:12it really works, it's kind of hard to, you know, elucidate on it because it's very
20:15much case by case thing.
20:17You said before you studied engineering, do you have kind of an analytical mindset with
20:21social media?
20:22Like, are you a kind of person that is, you know, looking at the trends, looking at metrics,
20:27trying to kind of figure out what the algorithm's doing, or is it different?
20:30You more just do what you want to do and it's been working.
20:33It's a bit of both because I have to balance my own artistic interests with also the algorithmic
20:38interests.
20:39And the reason why is because I do have a way that I want to do things that I desire to do
20:43things, but I think I learned at some point that given the short form space and how people
20:49consume content, it's not always going to perform the best.
20:52And obviously I want to strike, I want to get to, I want to be able to also make my content
20:57perform well.
20:58So I have to take certain risks on the artistic side for the sake of performance.
21:01And I try to balance it.
21:02I'm at a point where I'm able to sort of like kind of move the needle a little bit and get
21:07some more of my artistic interest in there in terms of the way I produce the content.
21:11I've been able to do that over the years.
21:12But in terms of, for example, a lot of my videos have a very similar intro because I
21:16learned that that's just what works.
21:18Right?
21:18Like, for example, I mean, there was one time I tried making a video and, you know, it's
21:22intro, body, outro in a very cinematic kind of way.
21:26Moment I put it up, I noticed it wasn't performing very well.
21:28And it made total sense because if somebody's scrolling and they see it, they're not really,
21:31they don't really know what they're about to get this one's into.
21:33So I had to learn very quickly that that's not really going to work in this short form sort
21:36of space where it's all driven about, you know, watch time, engagement, things like that.
21:39So, and the same thing I always tell people, like, you kind of have to find that balance
21:42as well into, in terms of what you want to pursue and then also what will work, you know?
21:45You mentioned, you know, understanding what your audience wants and knowing that, how
21:49would you describe your fan base?
21:50How would you describe your audience?
21:52My audience is very diverse.
21:53I mean, I mean, even when I, even in the real life, whenever I'm going about my day,
21:56I've been approached from anybody from a four year old to somebody who's in their 60s,
22:00you know, which is really cool.
22:01I think people from all different age groups, demographics and backgrounds have been able
22:05to enjoy my content, people who are into fashion or people who are, you know, the person who's
22:09a novice, you know, who's just getting into it, which is really inspirational to see as
22:12well, that I can inspire both sides of the coin.
22:15And so I think as a result, I try to make content that does also speak to a wider array of people.
22:22So sometimes I'll make content that speaks to a much younger demographic and what they're
22:27talking about, which may be less fashion and industry oriented.
22:31And then also I'll try to also then speak to the people who are really into the fashion,
22:36the arts, the craft of it and everything like that.
22:38So just trying to balance that as well as another thing.
22:41I was reading headlines in the audience right now.
22:43Your audience, your fans are, were very, very upset that you were at the Met Ball.
22:47Do you, have you responded to them?
22:48How do you like go back and forth?
22:50Do you, do you have like a two-way conversation?
22:52Yeah, I was, I was saying that.
22:54I mean, prior to the event, which I think was just last night, I, I was already getting
23:00a lot of, are you going to be theirs?
23:03And I think I just, just made a few, I made like a, I made one video in the story just
23:07saying, I don't know.
23:09And so, and then since it actually happened, I've been seeing a lot of videos myself, to
23:14be honest, it, to be, I'll, I'll be so transparent.
23:16I honestly have in a, in a weird way had been very taken aback by the, I guess the outcry
23:24I didn't really expect it.
23:26And it's been something that I, I honestly am processing right now.
23:31It's, no, because it is a thing where it's like, I'm seeing so many videos and so many
23:34articles coming out about it and that I, I didn't think would happen.
23:37And I don't even know what to, to be honest, I don't even know what to make of it myself.
23:40But, but obviously, I mean, like, you know, a lot of people who deserve to be there were
23:44there.
23:44It was still a great, a great event.
23:46And, you know, to see all the different looks from all the, from all the people that were
23:50there.
23:50So it's still, it's still a great event.
23:51I, you know, it was a beautiful night.
23:53I saw so many beautiful looks as well.
23:55So it was still great regardless.
23:57In terms of the, the fan response, I mean, I, I can understand it, of course, but I think,
24:01you know, everything was still, still well done.
24:03All right.
24:03Anna Wintour, take note, listen to Wisdom's giant fan base here.
24:06Give the people what they want.
24:08In terms of fashion, what do you, what is the state of fashion?
24:11What is the future?
24:12What do you see coming?
24:13Because it's so interesting because you got famous during COVID and there was a lot of thought
24:17pieces about like when the world opens up, how are people going to dress?
24:21Right.
24:21Everyone was wearing at home.
24:23Everyone was very kind of down and depressed and sloppy.
24:27And then the world opened up and like, what is the state of fashion now?
24:31I know it's five years in the past, but yeah.
24:33I think you almost need to assess the state of fashion by assessing the state of conversation.
24:39Right.
24:39Because so much of what we know as fashion is, is subcultures and the conversations that
24:46those subcultures have and how that reflects in, you know, whether it's the time period,
24:51whether it's the economy of a place, what's going on.
24:55It's all about what the people are doing.
24:57Right.
24:57And so ultimately, when you look at how engrossed we are and how embedded technology is with
25:04our day-to-day lives, you see this sort of dissemination of ideas more frequently.
25:08It's been amplified in a way that, you know, took a bit longer.
25:11What I mean by that is, for example, you know, in the past, the way we had these conversations
25:16was kind of in a more communal sense.
25:19So what is so-and-so wearing over there?
25:21What is so-and-so doing here?
25:22Maybe you just got your inspiration from one news source.
25:25Maybe it was the magazine.
25:26It was the news, whatever.
25:27But now there's so much information that's happening all at once that it is a thing where
25:31you can see information coming from so-and-so sources that you didn't get to see before.
25:35And this also influences how we assess fashion, right?
25:38Now, somebody can see what somebody in Norway is wearing or somebody in Bangladesh or somebody
25:43in Texas.
25:44And you can see these different subcultures all at once now and pull that inspiration
25:48rather immediately.
25:49Whereas in the past, it was like you get the paper, you get the magazine, and you kind
25:53of see the trends from what so-and-so is wearing, what this celebrity is doing and this
25:57musician, right?
25:58So at the end of the day, I think we have this sort of melting pot of all these ideas
26:04kind of existing at the same time, which I think is really cool because ultimately it
26:09is the modern representation of that.
26:11I think sometimes you have the question of what is the modern style?
26:14What do people wear nowadays?
26:15But also, it's so embedded in technology, right?
26:18That that is what it is.
26:19The modern style, what people are wearing, fashion, is this amalgamation.
26:24Because how have we progressed as a society with technology?
26:28And it influences everything.
26:30So I think it's just literally we're living in this state of it all.
26:34Yeah, that's a great point.
26:35Because for centuries, fashion was controlled by a handful of editors, a handful of designers.
26:41But now with the democratization of technology, the people decide what's in fashion.
26:47It's not a handful of people in New York City.
26:49I think any intelligent and well-informed entity, whether it's a person, a business, whatever,
26:54understands that, right?
26:55And makes room for that because that is important.
26:58You don't want to be left behind.
26:59If you don't have your ear to the streets and you understand what's going on and how
27:02people are communicating nowadays, it's going to be a thing where you're going to be operating
27:06on Internet Explorer.
27:08You know what I mean?
27:08Do you have any desire to ever have your own brand, your own company, your own line?
27:14Yeah, of course.
27:14What would that look like?
27:16I can't tell you what it looks like.
27:17And the reason why I can't is because I'm very focused right now on content.
27:21A, because I'm very passionate about it and I'm passionate about how people resonate
27:24with it and what it means to people.
27:25So that's where I put the majority of my time.
27:28To then focus on the brand at large in terms of whether it's a magazine or clothing, whatever,
27:35I have to take a big step back from that.
27:37And I have to have a lot of hands delegate that, which is completely possible and feasible,
27:40obviously.
27:41But right now, I'm still very focused on that.
27:43I think it'll get to a point where I feel like, OK, I can let that go and then start looking
27:49at other things.
27:50But right now, I am very hands on with that because I think a lot of people really resonate
27:54with it and kind of want to see how that is.
27:56So I think there'll be a time where I can give you an answer on what that looks like.
28:01Obviously, I have ideas.
28:02So many things go in and out all the time.
28:04But for the sake of sort of protecting that and even letting that grow and develop, I think
28:10it's more of a thing where it will happen soon.
28:14If you were the head of marketing for a major fashion brand right now, how would you go about
28:20your business?
28:20How would you work with creators?
28:21How would you work with the media?
28:22What would be like your strategy?
28:24I think it's the first thing is to look at how generations now are consuming.
28:30The reason why I say this is because technology is celebrated so much that you have to also
28:36accelerate your understanding, right?
28:38You have to accelerate how you assess different demographics of people, Gen Alpha, Gen Z, Millennials,
28:43whatever the case is.
28:44Because there's a huge difference even within younger Gen Z and older Gen Z, and then even
28:48like Gen Alpha, for example, the language that's being used.
28:50Language nowadays, in terms of slang, lingo, whatever, there's a new thing every single
28:55day.
28:56And it's consistently, it's exponentially growing.
28:59So I think to understand how content is being consumed, what people are watching and
29:04what they're looking at is very important.
29:05I think nowadays, for example, short form content is huge.
29:09Streaming streamers are huge.
29:11These sorts of mediums are people are very tapped into.
29:14And I think tapping into that audience is very important because, again, you can't just put
29:20it out on the paper, right?
29:21You can't just rely on one celebrity to dictate the whole thing or a small group.
29:26It doesn't work that way anymore.
29:27It's less centralized.
29:28So I would look at what people are doing on the ground.
29:32What are people watching?
29:33Who are people watching?
29:34Why are people watching that?
29:36And how long will people watch that for, right?
29:38Because just because something's hot now doesn't mean it'll always be hot.
29:41So what is the value they're getting out of this, right?
29:43If it's a particular person, why?
29:45And what is that person doing?
29:46And how is that going to continue to, you know, progress as the years come?
29:50And then being able to tap in with that in a way that's natural, because I don't just
29:54want to go in there and say, hey, you're really cool right now.
29:57Here's my thing.
29:58And do it like this.
29:59No, no, no.
29:59You want to do it in a natural way because, again, younger generations can smell through
30:03that.
30:04Like we can sniff through the, like if you're a big, you know, company with a social media
30:08account and you're trying to use the lingo, we're going to tell that you're just trying
30:11to, you know, it's very difficult to, I think, like sell to Gen Z and sell to a younger generation
30:14than it was in the past.
30:15Because we can easily tell when you're trying to sell to us or where you're trying to advertise
30:19to us.
30:20And it's like, it's going to read kind of off.
30:22Some people have managed to do it pretty well.
30:24So I think being able to also go to people where they're at and do it in a way that doesn't
30:29feel too forced and doesn't feel too, you know, unnatural.
30:33That's a perfect spot to end, I think.
30:35Yeah.
30:35Wisdom K, thank you so much for joining the Forbes Top Creator Show.
30:38Thank you so much.
30:39It's been awesome.
30:39Thanks a lot.
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