During a House CCP Committee hearing, Rep. Nathaniel Moran (R-TX) asked Former Australia Prime Minister Scott Morrison about how to combat China's influence.
00:02Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to both our witnesses, Prime Minister and Ambassador.
00:06I want to thank you in particular for being strong, steady, and effective voices as it relates to the threats that the Chinese Communist Party poses,
00:13in particular as we're talking today about economic coercion, which no doubt is a threat to America's way of life.
00:20No question they seek to change behavior through fear and intimidation and anti-American coercion across the world.
00:28And this committee, I think, must take steps to address the CCP's coercion and craft legislation that will be a tangible document for Xi Jinping and his economic advisors to understand where we stand on this issue.
00:42I don't think the American people understand how bad the situation is about the intimidation.
00:46When I look back in preparation for this hearing, I was astounded.
00:49Just a couple of examples that I'll bring out.
00:52During the 2023 field hearing that this committee held back when Mike Gallagher was the chair, in New York City, there was a threat put out to those that would be witnesses,
01:06and those witnesses didn't want to reveal their identities because they understood the reprisals that might come from the CCP.
01:12In 2021, Reuters reported that the PRC embassy in Washington, D.C., had sent letters to U.S. firms pressing executives to urge members of Congress to amend or withdraw bills that sought to enhance U.S. competitiveness on the international stage.
01:27Those are the kind of actions that the PRC is going to take, and we certainly remember what happened to South Korea when China imposed economic penalties against South Korean companies,
01:37costing them billions of dollars after Seoul agreed in 2016 to a U.S. request to deploy THAAD missile defense systems in South Korea.
01:46It seems really to be no limit on the actions the PRC will take to engage in economic coercion.
01:52I want to start with you, Prime Minister, and talk about the use of arbitrary laws by China or their arbitrary application of laws, their own laws, in this regard.
02:03In 2020, China implemented the export control law, which, as you know, gives the CCP the ability to halt exports of critical minerals or technologies based on a national security criteria with, frankly, no basis, in fact, on their side.
02:18They've used laws like this to stop the export of key goods when countries don't hold their same political view, as you know.
02:24They also implemented the unreliable entity list in 2020, that's their term, which allows Beijing to blacklist foreign firms from undefined acts that they see as harmful to their national sovereignty.
02:35In the U.S., we have similar laws, but, frankly, we provide evidence and we fairly and equally apply those laws.
02:42That's not the case for China.
02:43I want to go back to when you were dealing with this in Australia.
02:48Prime Minister, what steps did you take to lead Australia in the face of direct economic coercion by China?
02:53And how did you see China use these arbitrary laws to pressure Australian companies?
02:59Thank you, Congressman.
03:01It's interesting that before – yes, there are a number of decisions that Australia took on Huawei and so on, and we were the first to do that globally.
03:10But we were engaged in some abattoir issues with China, and I was raising those with the Premier at the time, and we were just making zero progress on this issue.
03:24The use of non-tariff barriers to basically be denying the ability for us to be pursuing our media exports into China, and there was just an absolute brick wall.
03:36Now, this is before I called for an inquiry into COVID-19, much has put on that issue, and I don't resolve for it for a second.
03:45This led to the deaths of millions of people around the world, and their accountability on this issue has never been brought to anything, and it must one day.
03:56But I digress.
03:58Because those very types of non-tariff barriers, the internal rules, the processes, they are used to frustrate, exhibit – frustrate, I should say, inhibit what were the normal trade relationships between us and China under our free trade agreement.
04:16So even where you have an agreement, they will say they obey the rule of law so long as that rule of law suits their purpose at the time, or they can change the rule of law when it suits them.
04:27And that is the great threat of authoritarian regimes.
04:29The rule of law is the rule of law in the countries we reside in.
04:33But for China, it's the rule of law as they call that law any given day.
04:37And if it doesn't suit, then they will find another way to prevent the actions of others who they seek to frustrate.
04:43And before I lose my time today, I want to come to you, Ambassador, because you mentioned some things earlier about how do we effectively introduce countermeasures.
04:53And I thought one of the things you said was really insightful.
04:56You said make China more vulnerable and dependent in three areas – food, energy, and then use the fear of their own people against them effectively.
05:04So I want to ask you specifically, how do we go about that here in Congress?
05:09What kind of legislative action should we take to increase the vulnerability in these areas to China and to make them more dependent on the rest of the world?
05:18Thank you, Congressman.
05:21So your colleague mentioned about disengaging that China is a bit like a drug.
05:25One is I don't like the Cold War metaphor, because if you go back to the Cold War, we didn't really have trade with the Soviet Union.
05:34The trade between the United States and China is nipping up against a trillion dollars.
05:39So it's not a real metaphor.
05:42And the second is China believes that there is a Cold War.
05:45It's in the science and technology area.
05:47They want to dominate biotech, AI, quantum computing.
05:52It'll just go down the list.
05:53Making sure – and this requires a deft hand, meaning you can't just use a blunt instrument – where they are vulnerable on food.
06:04I think it's a mistake to have Brazilian soybeans replace American soybeans.
06:09I think that gives us leverage.
06:12I think it's a mistake that they can access energy either through Russia or Iran.
06:18Again, I think making them more dependent on not just oil and gas, our technology as it relates to a series of things on battery research, as it relates to battery storage or other types of technology.
06:29But you go down the list.
06:31This is what I think the NAC would do.
06:33I think – NAC being the National Economic Council in the White House.
06:38I do want to stress, though, you're doing this in conjunction with your allies.
06:43The mindset that the United States will do this solo plays to China's game.
06:48We're on their turf, isolated, just mano-a-mano.
06:53Us standing with the European friends and allies, with our allies in the Indo-Pacific, strengthens.
07:00We are a numbers game.
07:02When that force brings, you flip China's script.
07:06Now, I respect the institution of Congress, having served here, but at the end of the day, the lead here is out of the executive branch to set the precedent, having served also at the behest of two presidents.
07:19So, Congress can play a supporting role, both challenging and reinforcing when an administration is taking the course.
07:28Thank you to both of you, and I agree with you, Ambassador.
07:30We need strong partnerships and allies across the world to isolate China, instead of allowing that to happen in the reverse.
07:37One thing I would note that was two – if I could do two things, Mr. Chairman.
07:42One is what's not fully appreciated, and I did not until I got there, how much not just our friends and allies, but people in other countries in the region do not want an untethered, unhinged China.
07:58China, they see the United States as the best insurance policy to anchor in that area.
08:06China's strategy, they are the rising power, America's declining power, get in line, or you're going to get Australia's treatment.
08:13Our strategy, we're a permanent Pacific power and presence, and you can bet long on the United States.
08:18We have to double down on that.
08:22Not just Australia, not just Japan, not just Korea.
08:24Other countries in the region want America, not just the men and women that serve on the Abraham Lincoln or the Ronald Reagan.
08:32They want all of America.
08:34They want our sports.
08:36They want the instruments of our soft power.
08:38They want the instruments of our economic engagement.
08:40So if we're going to do this and stay a permanent Pacific power and presence, don't put this on the young men and women that signed up to serve on a Navy ship six months away from their family alone.
08:55Put it on the communities that can outproduce, outinnovate, and outcompete with China, and do it with our allies in tow, pulling with us.
09:04That's our responsibility as a world leader, our responsibility to our values, and our responsibility to the men and women who are asked as one piece of our instrument of power.
