Varsen Shahin : "Le futur État palestinien fera une place aux femmes et au respect du droit"
La ministre palestinienne des affaires étrangères, Varsen Shahin, a déclaré que tout futur État palestinien serait pluraliste et respecterait tout accord sur une solution à deux États pour Israël ainsi que le droit international.
00:00My guest this week on the Europe Conversation is Palestinian Foreign Affairs Minister Varsan Shaheen.
00:14She says she's shocked and disappointed at Europe's failure to act against Israel for its human rights breaches in Gaza and the West Bank.
00:22Dr. Varsan Shaheen, Palestinian Minister for Foreign Affairs, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:30Assalamu alaikum.
00:31Thank you very much and thank you for hosting me.
00:33What was widely anticipated happened, which is that EU member states decided not to take action against Israel for its war in Gaza and the situation in the West Bank.
00:43Many member states really can't agree to do that.
00:45And it's obviously despite the fact that the EU has a report that said that Israel has breached EU human rights standards.
00:52What is your response to that?
00:55Shocking and disappointing because everything is crystal clear.
00:59I mean, there's an EU report that clearly stated that Israel has been violating 38 violations were indicated in that report.
01:12And it's an EU report.
01:13And the EU-Israel Association agreement is also clear in its Article 2 on anybody part of the agreement should be in compliance with international law and international humanitarian law.
01:31And when an EU report says that there are 38 violations, that should be taken very seriously.
01:38And these violations have been unfolding in front of everybody's eyes.
01:43The whole world has been seeing what is happening in Gaza.
01:49The killing, the atrocities, the war crimes, the weaponization of food, the killing of people queuing to get a pack of flour.
02:02All of this is clear.
02:04It doesn't need more assessment.
02:07And yet there was a failure on agreeing to take actual measures.
02:14I mean, those member states would say that that's the point, isn't it, that actually it won't deter anything, it won't help the situation on the ground for Palestinians, and that it would close the contact with Israel.
02:25Yes, but this line has been opened for so many years, and the violations are continuing.
02:31The time is now to say enough is enough.
02:34And wrongdoing, any perpetrator of wrongdoing should be held accountable.
02:39No state is above the law.
02:40What we hear from Israel is also that Hamas is taking aid from the mouths of Palestinian people in Gaza as well.
02:50Look, there are conflicting reports on this.
02:52But regardless, whatever is being offered in Gaza is not meeting the needs of the Gazans.
02:59There was a modality in the past, and that modality was working, because the international organizations were distributing the aid.
03:08And they had like 300 points of distribution.
03:11Today we have a new modality with four points of distribution.
03:15Invariably, you will have crowds, massive numbers of people queuing to get food.
03:21Today, aid is not receiving, it's not received by the people, and it's causing a lot of damage and deaths.
03:28Today there are more than 700 people who have lost their lives, killed while queuing for food.
03:34And this has to stop.
03:35One of the points also made by the EU is that the reason they may not take action against Israel now
03:41is that it's pending the materialization of this new agreement, where the EU and Israel have agreed to substantially increase the amount of aid into Gaza,
03:51reopening humanitarian routes in Egypt, Jordan, and other areas,
03:56and substantially make sure that people can get access to not just food, but to medical items.
04:01Is that something that you're hopeful of?
04:02Well, these are the requests by the EU, and I hope the EU puts very strong scrutinizing measures
04:11on monitoring the compliance with the agreement.
04:14Because if we look at the last week since the agreement was made, we see more killings of people.
04:22We see people killed at the queuing points.
04:26We see children brutally murdered while in tents, awaiting medical care from another tent.
04:34So these are the kinds of questions that need to be asked today, and asked in a very serious manner.
04:40And reports should not only come from Israel, because Israel has denied entry of journalists,
04:48has denied the work of a lot of the NGOs,
04:51and is not allowing anybody to come up with anything that is credible.
04:57Well, speaking of influence, your own president, Mahmoud Abbas,
05:00has called for Hamas to release the hostages immediately, to give their weapons up,
05:05to root out Hamas, and to essentially say that in any future Palestinian state,
05:09Hamas won't rule the Gaza Strip.
05:12But, I mean, the Palestinian Authority isn't even involved in any of the negotiations at the moment.
05:17It doesn't have any influence.
05:19Yes, the Palestinian Authority is very relevant, because the Palestinian Authority today functions in Gaza.
05:26We have people in the health sector, we have people in the education sector,
05:30in water, in energy, in social services.
05:32We have an operations room that has all the Palestinian ministries,
05:36it has most of the international organizations that meets on a regular basis,
05:41and discusses issues in Gaza, and meeting the demands and the needs in Gaza,
05:45which we know are monumental and cannot be met by the Palestinian Authority alone.
05:51So, we are relevant.
05:53I mean, Hamas has ruled Gaza with an iron fist for nearly 20 years now,
05:57so the Palestinian Authority hasn't had influence in the way that you're saying it has,
06:01not from a cultural perspective or a political perspective.
06:04I mean, there's been so much violence against Palestinians by Hamas in the Gaza Strip,
06:09and the PA haven't been able to influence anything there.
06:12But not everybody in Gaza is Hamas.
06:15Of course, I'm not saying that at all.
06:16I'm just saying the way they rule Gaza.
06:18Yes, but things will change,
06:22and if people see a future that gives them some hope,
06:26going into the future whereby they are respected as human beings,
06:32things will fluctuate.
06:34One other issue, though, I mean, let's say we're getting to that,
06:36is that there's always been complaints as far back as Yasser Arafat,
06:39but also the Palestinian Authority, the PLO,
06:41that there's deep corruption and nepotism within that organization.
06:45And you talk to young Palestinians, and they say the same thing.
06:48Okay, we don't support Hamas,
06:50but the alternative isn't going to lead us down a very strong path either.
06:55How can you persuade, in fact, not just persuade people,
06:58but how will you root out that level of corruption?
07:00Look, corruption is everywhere.
07:02I know, but that's not an excuse.
07:03It's not an excuse, but corruption is everywhere.
07:06And remember, we are under occupation, and occupation corrupts.
07:12Occupation corrupts.
07:13Well, culture exists anyway.
07:14Funding from outside corrupts.
07:17Not being able to direct your organizations the way you want corrupts.
07:23So there are so many variables in Palestine that lead towards that end.
07:28That is not an excuse.
07:30But today, we have a reform and development agenda
07:33by this government in Palestine,
07:37and we're working on all aspects to curtail corruption,
07:43to decrease nepotism,
07:45to ensure that our organizations are governed
07:48by rules and regulations applicable to all.
07:51Can you see any politician or political group in Israel
07:56that you could do business with
07:58to eventually have and create a Palestinian state?
08:01I mean, there's so much aggression and confrontation.
08:04It looks so further apart than it's ever been, really.
08:07Well, to tell you,
08:08I mean, with this rightist government,
08:10it's very difficult.
08:11Because if you hear what this government stands for,
08:14what the ministers utter,
08:16the incitement against the Palestinians
08:18and anything that is Palestinian,
08:20it would be very difficult.
08:22But that doesn't mean that we should give up.
08:25We need,
08:26the Israelis should create the body
08:28that can take them onwards.
08:31And with the Trump administration,
08:33I mean, do you have any hope now?
08:35Well, we keep the hope alive,
08:37because we are two-staters
08:39and we believe that that two-state solution
08:43is the only viable solution.
08:44Because Israel will not accept
08:46to be a democratic state for all its citizens.
08:49And we will not accept
08:51to continue living the status quo
08:52or an apartheid state.
08:54A lot of the Arab countries,
08:55in particular Egypt,
08:56but also Saudi Arabia,
08:59even Jordan,
08:59although the King of Jordan
09:01has been very vocal
09:02in his opposition to what Israel is doing,
09:04the other Arab countries
09:05have not been strenuously
09:06trying to support
09:08or push for international measures
09:09in support of Palestinians.
09:12Does that disappoint you?
09:13No, because today,
09:15the Arab support is more than ever.
09:18But in Egypt, it's not.
09:19I mean, the Egyptians are charging Palestinians
