The People's History Show Season 5 Episode 4

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Transcript

00:30Hello and welcome to the People's History Show, the series that uncovers incredible stories all over Scotland.

00:35I'm Jennifer Rear.

00:36And I'm Fergus Sutherland, coming up on tonight's show.

00:41I'm going to Ravenscraig in Motherwell, which once housed the biggest hot strip steel plant in Europe.

00:47With over 12,000 workers, it was the biggest and most important employer in South Lanarkshire.

00:54And I'll be finding out about a pioneer of women's football, Edna Nielis,

00:58who pushed the boundaries of the beautiful game here in Scotland.

01:03Now, the Ravenscraig Steelworks site was once the centre of the Scottish steel industry.

01:09It was massive and it had a huge impact on the area and the people of Motherwell.

01:13Sunday, 28th of July, 1996 was a sad day for many in Motherwell.

01:26The largest hot strip steel mill in Western Europe, Ravenscraig, saw its final day.

01:32Its iconic towers fell to the ground.

01:34I think it was a motive because at one point we had a huge steelworks on our doorstep.

01:40It was thousands of jobs for our local community.

01:43And almost overnight that disappeared and it was devastating and we didn't really recover as an area.

01:49When we're talking about the Industrial Revolution, we're talking about places like Motherwell.

01:54And for Motherwell, that industry was steel.

01:58Well, Ravenscraig was the most advanced steelworks in Scotland.

02:02It was unique in Scotland in that it was an integrated steelworks.

02:05That means basically they did everything.

02:07The raw materials came in, were processed, turned into iron.

02:10And then the iron, while it was still molten, was turned into steel.

02:13And then the steel would be processed and turned into products that could be sold.

02:17Ravenscraig was a vast site.

02:18It was about 700 football pitches or twice the size of Monaco.

02:21You had coal receiving yards, you had iron ore receiving yards,

02:25blast furnaces of which you've seen the outlines or the footprints of.

02:31It was had the capacity to produce up to 3 million tons of steel.

02:51This is what it's like to be inside a modern steel plant.

02:55It's a bit further advanced than Ravenscraig was, but it gives you a real feel for what it was like.

03:00Especially the sheer heat and the noise that you get in here.

03:03You'll see I'm wearing hearing aids due to the noise.

03:09It was terrific noise in the strip mill.

03:12Lots of people, lots of dangerous things going on, lots of smells.

03:17I went in there and I was barely past 20 years old.

03:23It was a scary, scary place.

03:25The plant was such a big part of the culture of Motherwell.

03:29At its peak, it employed over 12,000 people in the steel industry.

03:33The people you worked with, you were all, it was a dangerous place to work as well.

03:37But I don't know when they didn't enjoy it.

03:39I spent a good part of my working life there.

03:45It was utopia.

03:47A great place to work.

03:49When you were working round about the vessel or molten metal in the teaming pits,

03:53you had a woolen suit.

03:56So you had woolen trousers, woolen jacket.

03:58You normally had a neck scarf.

04:01Fireproof helmet.

04:03Dark glasses.

04:04Hearing protection.

04:05And I actually remember one time I met one of the teamers in Hamilton one day.

04:13And I didn't recognise him.

04:14And I had worked with this chap for almost a year.

04:17I'd only ever seen him in work.

04:19I met him outside dressed in his civvies.

04:21I didn't even know who it was.

04:23The production rate was so high that Motherwell became the steel production capital of Scotland

04:28and became known as Steelopolis.

04:31It was really important to the towns of Motherwell and Whishall

04:34mainly because the Ravenscraig workers, because it was the most productive plant,

04:39they were the best paid by quite some distance.

04:41They were much better paid than other steel workers.

04:44So suddenly people who could never dream of affording a car,

04:48they could buy these luxury, well, what seemed like luxuries at the time.

04:51So it really transformed the local economy.

04:53It's no surprise really that Motherwell Town Centre was completely rebuilt

04:58since in the years after Ravenscraig opened.

05:00The steel industry had such a big impact on the people in Motherwell,

05:04even Motherwell Football Club are nicknamed the Steel Men.

05:09The output was truly astonishing.

05:11At one point making two million tonnes of molten steel every year.

05:16They would sell the steel onto other manufacturers

05:19and then they would be produced all around the country, maybe abroad as well.

05:24So if you were driving your car, you could have been driving a piece of Ravenscraig.

05:27Yes, and of course the joy with steel is because steel is nearly all recycled.

05:31You're probably still seeing Ravenscraig products being used today.

05:34So steel that was made here in Ravenscraig has still been used.

05:37Exactly.

05:37Except it's been recycled.

05:38From the 1970s onwards, global industrial competition really started to impact

05:59upon the heavy industries of Great Britain.

06:02There were attempts to restructure the steel industry throughout the 70s

06:05and then into the 1980s.

06:07Ian McGregor, who many people will remember,

06:10was made the chairman of British Steel in 1980

06:12and one of his first recommendations was to close Ravenscraig.

06:16There was hints of closing down from the mid-80s,

06:19even though we were doing really well in the mid-80s

06:21where our quality steel we were producing,

06:24and I know that because I was in the quality control department,

06:26quality steel we produced was second to none

06:28and that was not just in Britain, that was in Europe.

06:32But there was rumours then because where we were situated and well

06:35we were in the central belt, so our supplies had to come from Hunterston, etc.

06:40So you've got cost implications here as well.

06:42A decision was made to close Ravenscraig and this kind of gradually happened really.

06:47It was death by a thousand cuts in a way.

06:49Gradually different parts of the plant were closed down

06:51until it was a much smaller enterprise and much less self-contained, I guess.

06:56It was scheduled to shut, we were told, I think it was 1990,

07:00we were told it was shut in 1992, round about that.

07:10On Saturday 27th of June 1992, the plant finally closed.

07:15It was an extremely difficult time for the workers with mass redundancies.

07:20Some had been working there for over 30 years

07:23and now they were forced to close this chapter of their lives.

07:28You still hear the stories of what Ravenscraig meant,

07:31but also the aftermath when people were left with absolutely nothing

07:34to take them forward and it had a big impact on the local community,

07:38the local community I'm a councillor in.

07:39I think we still feel the effects of Ravenscraig,

07:42the people who lost their jobs, maybe never got jobs in the future.

07:44The Lanarkshire area, especially that, round about Murrow,

07:48Bellsill, Hollowtown, Mossend, had a really heavy impact.

07:52The steelworks had a heavy impact, it was families worked in there.

07:55I mean, obviously, the pubs, shops and that all around,

08:01they were hugely affected.

08:03A lot of them retrained, you know, they were paid so long

08:06to train bus drivers or, you know, whatever.

08:11Some of them dwindled their money away drinking.

08:14That's it.

08:16It's a bad day, isn't it?

08:18Once it's finished, when they do something new,

08:20they find something else.

08:22And I think for all people who created new,

08:24the community created new,

08:26I think there's grace what's happening,

08:28doing here, isn't it?

08:29This place should still be alive and still working,

08:31the people should still be working.

08:33There's nothing left here for anybody.

08:35The site was completely levelled in 1993.

08:45The area is now the largest brownfield site in Europe,

08:49but there are extensive regeneration plans in the works.

08:52It's a very emotive site for our community

08:55and Motherwell and other parts of Lanarkshire,

08:58and we're desperate to do something with it

09:00and to rebuild Ravenscraig

09:01and make it a modern area for our community.

09:04The area itself is now being rebuilt,

09:07regrown and renewed.

09:10I think the regeneration of Ravenscraig

09:12is across all age groups.

09:13I mean, it's wonderful to have the college,

09:15it's wonderful to have the sports centre.

09:17It's young people and old people

09:18who want to see something on the site.

09:20They want to see it redeveloped

09:21because we all remember the history of it.

09:23Even people who haven't lived through it,

09:24they still remember the powerful history for our area.

09:27The site that once gave Motherwell its glow has gone,

09:30but its impact can still be felt.

09:33I think this is not just a Motherwell project,

09:35this is a North Lanarkshire and Scotland project.

09:37It's that significant.

09:38It's a site that's bigger than Monaco,

09:40and the investment going in

09:41is at a scale we've maybe not seen before.

09:43So this is not just for Motherwell,

09:45it's for the whole of Scotland

09:46that's going to become very significant.

09:47It's hugely important in the popular memory,

09:50not just because it was such a key part

09:52of Scotland's steel industry,

09:54but also as a kind of symbol

09:55of Scotland's manufacturing industry.

09:57Scottish steel goes way back

09:59into the 19th century

10:00when Colville's was making steel

10:03for the Forth Bridge.

10:05It's kind of that symbol

10:07of when we used to make things.

10:09They've done another job since then,

10:10but Ravenscraig's up there.

10:12The job's just the kind of place it was.

10:15You could be yourself in it.

10:17Good laughs, good times.

10:19If I had to do my time again,

10:22I wouldn't have any hesitation

10:23in saying I'm going to the steelworks.

10:26A lifetime in the steelworks.

10:27It's almost been a lifetime,

10:2947, 48 years.

10:33And you're still alive.

10:34And I'm still here.

10:35You've still got your fingers.

10:37Still got my fingers.

10:38The size of that site is incredible.

10:49Yeah, twice the size of Monaco.

10:50Amazing.

10:51Now, we've got to take a short break,

10:53but make sure you stay with us

10:54because I'll be finding out

10:55about a trailblazer of women's football.

10:57And she went on to play all over Europe.

10:59See you after the break.

11:00Welcome back to the People's History Show.

11:17Now, it's hard to believe,

11:19but at one point,

11:20women's football was banned in Scotland.

11:22However, there were women who refused to accept it

11:25and played the game regardless.

11:26Women like Edna Nielis.

11:30MUSIC

11:31For years, football in Scotland

11:45was thought of as exclusively a man's game.

11:48There were, however,

11:49women willing to challenge those attitudes.

11:52Women who would go on to play at the highest level.

11:54Women like Edna Nielis.

11:57In the 60s,

11:58there wasn't such a thing

11:58as a women's football team

12:00that we knew of.

12:01So breaking down those barriers then

12:03was absolutely vital

12:05to the success that we now see

12:07in the women's game.

12:08Edna's generation,

12:09and Edna in particular herself,

12:10what she was able to do as a player

12:12definitely inspired others

12:14to go on and play football as well.

12:16Edna's ability,

12:18her technical ability,

12:19was amazing, incredible.

12:21And she could always,

12:22it didn't matter who she was playing beside,

12:24she could bring them into the game.

12:26She was a total football player.

12:30Contrary to popular opinion,

12:31women playing football

12:32isn't a new phenomenon.

12:34In fact,

12:34we've been playing the game

12:35since as far back as 1881.

12:38The women's game in Scotland

12:40became really popular

12:41during the First World War.

12:44Women went into the factories

12:45and took up the jobs

12:46that the men had vacated

12:47to go off and fight.

12:49And as part of that process,

12:51they started to take up

12:52leisure activities and sports

12:54that the men used to do, basically.

12:58Opportunities were opened up.

12:59And one of the games

13:00that they took up was football.

13:01So the games really start to take off

13:04at a local level within the factories,

13:06and then the leagues start to develop

13:07between the factories,

13:08in much the same way

13:09that the men's game had.

13:11So you would have factory teams

13:12playing against one another.

13:14And these grew in popularity

13:15and they would get huge crowds

13:17coming to watch them.

13:19However,

13:19when the First World War ends

13:21and all the men come back,

13:22the women are said,

13:23you know,

13:23are told,

13:24thank you for your services,

13:25but now it's time to go back

13:26to the home and the hearth

13:28and the roles that you had

13:29before the war.

13:30And the pinnacle of that discussion

13:32is in 1921,

13:33when the FA decide

13:35to ban women's football.

13:37So they take this radical decision

13:39that they are no longer

13:41going to permit women

13:42to play on any of the affiliated pitches

13:44across England.

13:47And the SFA,

13:48the Scottish Football Association,

13:49subsequently adopt that same ruling

13:52and ban women

13:53from playing on their affiliated pitches.

13:55This ban would change

13:56the course of the women's game forever.

13:59We've got the Scottish FA Minute Books

14:01in the museum collection

14:02and you look at 1924, 1925,

14:04a number of times

14:05you've got senior football clubs

14:06in Scotland,

14:07asking permission

14:08to host a women's football match.

14:10They had to ask permission

14:11from the Scottish FA

14:12and each time the Scottish FA says,

14:14no, we don't support women's football.

14:16But women's football still went on,

14:17didn't it?

14:18Yeah, the Scottish FA couldn't ban

14:20women from playing football full stop.

14:22There was nothing to stop them

14:23from doing that.

14:25But what they were able to do

14:26was to stop organisations

14:28within their control

14:29from supporting women's football,

14:31so particularly the member clubs.

14:33They wouldn't budge.

14:34They just thought it wasn't for women.

14:36Women cannae play football.

14:38But that's all we used to get told,

14:39oh, women cannae play football.

14:41I always tried throughout my youth

14:42to play football.

14:43It was never allowed,

14:44not allowed at primary school

14:45to play football,

14:46not allowed at secondary school

14:47to play football.

14:48And believe you me,

14:48I asked a lot.

14:50And we didn't realise then

14:52how much adversity we were going to face

14:55just to get a game of football.

14:58It was 50 years later in the 1970s

15:01when things would finally start to change.

15:04In 1971, UEFA wanted to bring structure

15:07to the women's game.

15:08And so a vote with its 31 members was held.

15:1130 football associations passed the vote

15:14with only one, not two.

15:17Scotland.

15:18Elsie, what do you think of the SFA's attitude

15:20to not allowing women to play football

15:23or not recognising them?

15:25I'll need to watch my words here.

15:27I think in this day and age

15:29when there are bills going through Parliament

15:30for equal rights for women,

15:32equal conditions, equal pay,

15:34it's dreadful that they're against

15:35us playing football.

15:37The SFA I'm talking about.

15:38Something's got to be done.

15:41We must have these equal rights

15:42or we're never going to be

15:43getting any better.

15:47Five days a week,

15:48Edna Neillis helps to put the spirit

15:50into bottles.

15:51But come lunchtime,

15:52Edna shuns the company

15:53of her female workmates.

15:55She likes to play with the boys.

15:57And the more spirit they put into that,

15:59the more she likes it.

16:01The first time I set eyes on Edna,

16:03we were in the Butlins tournament finals.

16:05And this new team came into her line of vision

16:07and it was West Thorn United.

16:09So there we were,

16:10thinking it'd be a skoosh.

16:11And here we're walking onto the park,

16:13two lines of women walking onto the park

16:16and this wee boy pipes up.

16:19Wake up Maggie,

16:20I think I've got something to say to you.

16:24It was Edna.

16:25I turned around and I'm going,

16:26oh my God,

16:27what have I got here?

16:28It was Edna.

16:29She was Rod Stewart,

16:30daft.

16:30Absolutely daft and Rod Stewart.

16:32So we giggled and giggled

16:34and we're going to the park.

16:35But I just,

16:36I fell in love with Edna.

16:37Just,

16:37that was it.

16:38There was an immediate

16:39closeness.

16:42It was always Edna and myself

16:44from that day on.

16:45Three amigos.

16:46Even though,

16:47but the beers.

16:49Edna and Elyss,

16:50Rose Riley and Elsie Cook

16:51were all part of an amazing team

16:52that became a driving force

16:54pushing forward the world

16:55of women's football.

16:56Despite not having the support

17:22of the SFA,

17:23the Scottish Women's Football Association

17:25was set up in 1972.

17:28And the first official

17:29Scotland versus England game

17:31took place in Greenock

17:32at the Ravens Craig Stadium

17:33that same year.

17:36Edna,

17:36then just 18,

17:38was part of that historic team.

17:40Do you honestly think,

17:41you know,

17:41the SFA have banned

17:42or just don't recognise

17:44women's football.

17:45Do you really think though

17:45that football is a game for ladies?

17:48Well,

17:48we've proved that we can be good.

17:50I'm not saying the likes of them

17:51are as good as we may.

17:52We can put up a fair show of skill

17:54as well as scoring the goals

17:56when we're playing.

17:57Our skills were unbelievable.

18:00Technically,

18:00she was an unbelievable player.

18:02She was like a wee messy.

18:04People have compared her

18:05to Jimmy Johnston

18:05and anybody who knows

18:07Jimmy Johnston

18:07and how great he was as a player.

18:08A great dribbler,

18:09great close control of the ball.

18:11But also I think Edna

18:12was a goal scorer as well.

18:13She could actually kind of

18:13put the ball in the back of the net

18:14which was a great advantage

18:16at that time.

18:16So she had, I think,

18:17everything going for her

18:18as a football player.

18:19You were playing the match

18:20what, a couple of weeks ago

18:22and you scored 11 goals?

18:23Yeah, we were playing a team

18:24from Dunfermline.

18:25We won 16-0.

18:28Edna and Rose Riley

18:30played together

18:31and were very good friends

18:34and they were the best

18:36female Scottish players

18:37in that period.

18:39And then Rose

18:39heard about this girl

18:40playing for professional football

18:43for Reims in France.

18:44They went to France

18:45and they did a trial for Reims

18:47and they really impressed

18:49everybody there

18:50and they played

18:51a number of games.

18:52While they were with Reims

18:53the season was due to end

18:55so an Italian scout

18:57was at the game,

18:58signed them for AC Milan

19:00and off they went to Italy.

19:03Nielas was hugely successful

19:05at Milan.

19:05In fact, one game

19:06she scored a hat-trick

19:07in front of 20,000 fans.

19:10How many male footballers

19:12have actually managed to play

19:12for AC Milan

19:13with the equivalent?

19:14Not many.

19:16Edna's success in Italy

19:17only continued

19:18and she went on to win

19:20not only the league

19:20but also the cup

19:21several times.

19:24After speaking out

19:25against the national coach

19:26in 1975

19:27Edna, Rose and Elsie

19:29all received lifetime bans

19:30from the SFA.

19:32Edna, unfortunately

19:34that meant she didn't

19:35get to play

19:36in international matches

19:37again.

19:39However, Rose

19:40managed to circumvent that

19:42by being allowed

19:43to play for Italy

19:44so Rose actually went on

19:46and played for Italy

19:47which is possibly

19:48why Rose has

19:48a higher profile

19:50in the public consciousness

19:51now, people know her

19:52because of that success

19:55and unfortunately

19:55Edna wasn't able

19:57to do that

19:57so I think that's part

19:59of the reason

19:59that we don't

20:00necessarily know her name

20:02and we should know her name

20:03because she was a pioneer

20:04of the game.

20:05Both Edna and Rose

20:07continued their careers

20:08away from Scottish soil

20:09and played for Italian teams

20:11winning leagues

20:12and Italian cups

20:13throughout the 1980s

20:14before retiring

20:15in 1990.

20:17Sadly, after suffering

20:18from ill health

20:19Edna passed away

20:20in 2015

20:21but her legacy

20:22still lives on.

20:23You just look at them

20:30and think

20:30they just battled

20:31against all odds

20:32to achieve something amazing.

20:38Especially for young girls

20:40that opportunities

20:40are endless these days.

20:42We certainly should

20:42appreciate the hard work

20:43and determination

20:44that they showed

20:45in order to give us

20:46the platform

20:47that we have now.

20:47We're now internationally

21:00recognised

21:00as top class players

21:03in the women's game

21:05and that I think

21:06is the legacy

21:07of these women

21:07and in particular

21:09Edna.

21:10I mean Rose Riley's now

21:11in the Hall of Fame

21:12but what do you think

21:13of players like Edna?

21:15Edna should have been

21:15in the Hall of Fame

21:17as well.

21:17We should remember

21:18players like Edna

21:19not just for their

21:20abilities on the pitch

21:21but for being trailblazers

21:22of the women's game.

21:24She was amazing

21:25on the pitch

21:25and she was amazing

21:26off it.

21:27She lit up the dressing room.

21:29It didnae matter

21:30where we were

21:31or what we were doing.

21:32Edna was a life

21:33and soul at everything

21:34that was taking place.

21:36She was just

21:36a character.

21:38A Gleska character.

21:40It's amazing to think

21:41that AC Milan

21:41had two Scottish players.

21:43I know, it's incredible.

21:44Thanks for watching

21:45the People's History Show.

21:46We'll see you next time.

21:47We'll see you next time.

21:49We'll see you next time.

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