Why is the UK government allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote in the next election?

Name: Why is the UK government allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote in the next election? | BBC Newscast
Uploaded: 2025-07-18T02:22:23+00:00
Duration: 32 min 31 s
Channel: Bbc News

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The voting age at the next general election will be lowered across the UK to 16 for the first time.

Labour's election manifesto last year pledged to lower the voting age to 16 - in line with Scottish and Welsh elections. The Prime Minister has said 16 and 17-year-olds are "old enough to go out to work, they are old enough to pay taxes". The policy has been criticised by the Conservatives and Reform party. Adam and Chris are joined by Professor Jane Green - Director of Nuffield Politics Research Centre and President of the British Polling Council.

And, MP Diane Abbott has been suspended by the Labour Party pending an investigation into comments she made about racism, the BBC understands. Labour said it would not be commenting "while this investigation is ongoing".

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00:00Austria, Brazil, Ecuador, and today the UK announced that it will be joining the list of countries that have lowered their official voting age to 16.

00:11Why is it happening in Britain and what could the electoral consequences be?

00:15We will discuss all of that on this episode of the BBC's Daily News podcast, Newscast.

00:23Hello, it's Adam in the Newscast studio.

00:25And it is Chris at Westminster.

00:27Where it's been a busy old day.

00:29It has.

00:29We're recording this episode of Newscast at about quarter to seven on Thursday evening.

00:35And there's just been a little bit of breaking news from where Chris is sitting.

00:38And it's about Diane Abbott.

00:41Chris, just explain what's happened to her.

00:43Yeah, so pinging onto our phones at just after six o'clock.

00:47It's always fun when you have to scramble onto the six o'clock news when the bulletin's already started.

00:50Anyway, a Labour Party spokesman said,

00:53Diane Abbott has been administratively suspended from the Labour Party pending an investigation.

00:57We cannot comment further while this investigation is ongoing.

01:01And what that means is that she is now sitting as an independent MP.

01:06And so the saga of Diane Abbott, the first black woman MP, the mother of the house, the most longstanding female MP and the Labour Party has another chapter.

01:18Because you might recall there was a bit of a row, a big row.

01:22A couple of years ago, she wrote a letter to the Observer.

01:25She said that Irish, Jewish and traveller people undoubtedly experience prejudice similar to racism.

01:32And then she added that it's true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice.

01:40She withdrew the remarks.

01:41She apologised.

01:42She was suspended from the Labour Party.

01:43You might remember she got back into the Labour Party in the nick of time to stand as a Labour candidate last year.

01:48She gave an interview to Radio 4, to the BBC, a couple of months ago.

01:53It's been broadcast today.

01:55She was asked if she, you know, regretted that.

01:57Well, actually, do you know what?

01:58Why don't we just play a clip of it?

01:59Have we got it?

01:59Excellent.

02:00Let's illustrate it.

02:01You got into terrible trouble for a letter you wrote to the Observer about racism.

02:08And you appeared to suggest, in the view of some of your critics anyway, that the kind of anti-Semitism that the Jewish community suffered or travellers suffered or Irish people suffered was somehow different from the racism that you as a young black person had suffered.

02:25You were suspended and there was a great hoo-ha.

02:28Do you look back on that with regret?

02:31No, not at all.

02:32Clearly, there must be a difference between racism, which is about colour, and other types of racism.

02:42Because you can see a traveller or a Jewish person walking down the street.

02:49You don't know.

02:51You don't know unless you stop to speak to them or you're in a meeting with them.

02:56But if you see a black person walking down the street, you see straight away that they're black.

03:02There are different types of racism.

03:04But the effect is the same.

03:05If you are going to a synagogue on a Saturday morning and you have to have guards outside because some people might come along and want to insult you or even throw things at you, that's pretty much the same as the kind of thing you describe in your book as happening to you as a black person.

03:23The fact is one is a person of colour and one isn't.

03:25It's neither here nor there.

03:26If you suffer it, it's still damaging.

03:28It is here because you can spot that person of colour from hundreds of yards away.

03:36That is what is different.

03:37You withdrew the thing.

03:38You said, look, if this is misunderstood, as you thought it was, then I apologise for it.

03:45But fundamentally, you don't believe you did anything wrong or you didn't attempt to say something that you didn't believe.

03:52I just think that it's silly to try and claim that racism, which is about skin colour, is the same as other types of racism.

04:08I just, I don't know why people would say that.

04:11But you would, I assume, condemn anti-Semitic behaviour in the same way that you would condemn racist behaviour against someone simply because of the colour of their skin.

04:22Well, of course.

04:24And I do get a bit weary of people trying to pin the anti-Semitic label on me because I've spent a lifetime fighting racism of all kinds and in particular fighting anti-Semitism, partly because of the nature of my constituents.

04:40There she was asked, you know, to reflect on what she had said a couple of years ago and what she made of what she had said a couple of years ago, saying that she didn't regret it.

04:53And that then presented the Labour Party this morning, Thursday morning, with a bit of a dilemma.

04:59You know, what do they do?

05:01And their holding position was to say that there was no place for anti-Semitism in the party.

05:05Of course, there's been that massive rousing going back to the Jeremy Corbyn era around Labour and anti-Semitism and Keir Starmer talking about ripping it up by its roots.

05:15So there's a there's a there's a such a key kind of recent historical vein, if you like, through the Labour Party story around this whole question of anti-Semitism.

05:26They are then trying to unpick what they do, given what she has said about those previous comments, which she had previously apologised for.

05:36She frames her language now slightly differently from how she did a couple of years ago.

05:41But nonetheless, she says she doesn't regret what she said a few years ago.

05:45And then that statement just now, meaning she is another former Labour MP who is now an independent MP.

05:53And so the question begins again.

05:57You know, what does she do next?

05:59Could she be tempted by any new party that Jeremy Corbyn and others are saying they're going to assemble?

06:04Even without that question, there's the whole thing about how someone as senior and well known, particularly in political circles,

06:12as the mother of the house, somebody who there is a there's a certain deference towards that role because of the longevity and experience that any occupier of that role and that title has.

06:23How does that relationship play out?

06:26She usually sits on the on on the front bench, just to just detach from the actual front bench,

06:32but on the front row, if you like, of the House of Commons in a very prominent place because she gets called early in debates because of that seniority.

06:39So, yeah, how in the coming weeks and months does that does that play out?

06:43What does she say? As we record, she hasn't said anything yet in response.

06:47But, yeah, that that kind of saga of her and the party heads into yet another new phase.

06:54And it's also just one of those weird sort of slightly looking glassy moments at Westminster where the consequences of this become tangled up with,

07:01yeah, this new left wing party set out by Jeremy Corbyn, this new sort of like hardcore discipline that is being exerted by Keir Starmer against people who who sort of don't toe the party line.

07:13But actually, the consequences of this are completely unrelated because this is an interview that was in the can a few months ago.

07:18Yes, indeed. So it looks like it comes the day after a load of other Labour MPs lost the whip.

07:24And it does, except this wasn't done in response to that.

07:29This has been recorded for a fair old while.

07:32It's part of the I think it's called the Reflection Series, isn't it?

07:34It's very good.

07:35On Radio 4 and on BBC Sounds.

07:38But, yeah, it sits in that context.

07:39And then the other context, which I just think is worth reflecting on, is that here you have a black woman and the first black woman member of the UK Parliament reflecting on her own experience of racism

07:57and seeking to draw a distinction between a racism grounded in colour.

08:03And as she sees it, therefore, something that is and she describes it as something that is instantly noticeable versus a prejudice or a racism that is grounded in in other characteristics or elements of heritage or whatever that might be.

08:21And she maintains the view that there is a distinction between those two things.

08:25And then you have ultimately a prime minister, a white man, suggesting that that is a unreasonable distinction to draw.

08:36But doing so in a role that in its early years for him was defined by tackling this massive, massive challenge within the Labour Party about anti-Semitism.

08:48So, yeah, that's the dynamic that we see playing out again, because we had exactly this during the general election campaign.

08:56And it's just a final thought on this, certainly in this witter-a-thon from me, which is that, what was I going to say?

09:03I've actually forgotten.

09:04Oh, well, great.

09:05That saves us some time.

09:06Yeah, it does, doesn't it?

09:07What was I going to say?

09:07Honestly, it has been a busy day, Chris, because you've been dealing with another big story today.

09:10So it's understandable why your head is a bit spaghetti-like, which is that Labour have confirmed their plans, which were in their manifesto, to extend the vote in UK general elections to 16 and 17-year-olds.

09:23And they say that this will be done in time for the next general election, which we reckon will be in 2029.

09:28Although I think it might be in 2028.

09:30But anyway, that's for another day.

09:31So here to help us discuss the implications of this is Professor Jane Green, Director of the Nuffield Politics Research Centre and also President of the British Polling Council.

09:40Hello, Jane.

09:41Hello.

09:42It's very nice to talk to you again.

09:43Yeah, welcome back.

09:46So, yeah, Chris, do you want to just give us the background about why Labour are arguing that this is a good thing and also why they had to edit out one part of their argument?

09:54Yeah, so they have this in their manifesto.

09:58They think it is a logical next step in a kind of widening of the franchise.

10:03I've spent much of the afternoon delighting in vanishing into the archive and pulling out pictures from a century ago around the campaign for women to get the vote.

10:12And then there was the lowering of the voting age in the late 60s from those 21 and older to 18 to 21-year-olds being included.

10:22And we've seen in elections to the devolved bodies in Wales and Scotland and councils, 16 and 17-year-olds being able to vote there for a little while, but not in general elections.

10:36And then this next leap, and it kind of opens up a over and above a million and one kind of cephalogical arguments that we can come to it.

10:44It opens up a bigger question, I think, which I had a chance to put to the deputy prime minister, Angela Rayner earlier, which is when does society collectively, when do we all collectively regard adulthood as beginning?

10:59And it's frayed and it is blurred, isn't it?

11:02Because there are certain things that become legal at the age of 16 and there are certain things that become legal at the age of 18.

11:13And that will remain the case with this changing the voting age for a general election.

11:20It just means one of those many things will switch from 18 to 16.

11:23But there's a bigger picture argument around, yeah, at what point do you become an adult?

11:29Which we will pick up in a second.

11:31But Jane, do the cephalogical bit for us.

11:33What do we think the difference to election results might be when a whole load of 16, 17-year-olds pile into the polling stations?

11:41Although we don't actually think a whole load will pile in because another thing is just how likely they are to vote when they get the vote.

11:47But what's your take on the difference it might make?

11:51Yeah, so this is a really, really interesting one for loads of reasons.

11:57One of the things I think it's important to remember is that, you know, relationships aren't fixed in stone.

12:02So young people being less likely to vote, that's not fixed in stone.

12:06Young people being likely to vote in a certain way, that's not fixed in stone.

12:09But what, of course, really matters is whether young people feel represented, whether they feel that there are political parties that are talking to them,

12:20and also whether they have a greater kind of sense of, OK, I feel a bit more certain about what the parties are offering.

12:29Now, the problem has been that younger parts of the electorate have not felt those things.

12:35So if you look at British election study data, as we spend a lot of time doing, we see very clearly that younger parts of the electorate, younger voters or non-voters,

12:46you know, really just don't understand which parties represent them.

12:49And if they do, they've tended to see it as being parties on the left.

12:54So if we think, you know, like everything we know right now, how might these younger potential voters now vote?

13:03Well, first of all, they've got to learn about the system.

13:06They've got to learn about the parties. Obviously, that's evolving.

13:08So reform are really trying to target younger voters online or potential voters.

13:13But it's also generally the case or has been the case that young people see left liberal parties as being the parties if they think a party represents them, it tends to be left or liberal parties.

13:25So in the 2024 election, among 18 to 25, 83% of them in British election study data voted either Labour, Lib Dem, Green or one of the nationalist parties, either in England or sorry, in Wales or in Scotland.

13:42So that's obviously a massive, massive skew.

13:47And you'd expect, therefore, younger voters to also be more similar to the 18s to 25s, of course.

13:55So that was, you know, that was 2024.

13:57Of course, what matters now is how parties try to win new voters.

14:03And also that question, as you said, about turnout is really critical because turnout has been lower amongst younger voters.

14:09And like I say, it's not it's not a given that has not been the case, but it's been very pronounced in recent general elections.

14:15And I think it's been because younger voters just have not seen parties really speaking to them.

14:21And that's, you know, that's the massive question, I think, after today's announcement.

14:25Does this create, you know, new attempts to talk to young voters, new attempts to think about the kinds of intergenerational different kinds of concerns that people might have?

14:35And Jane, I knew you'd have a really nuanced view on this, which is why it's great to catch up with you again, because actually what you're saying is we should take those, those, those graphics that are now popping up on social media showing, oh, this could be great for Labour, but also quite good for an agile fighter.

14:51We should take them with a pinch of salt and not to cast any aspersions on the people doing those polls or posting those graphics.

14:56It's just that actually the world will be different when this actually happens.

14:59I mean, we just, I mean, what I love about my job is that, you know, we're really complex individuals, aren't we?

15:05Like people, you know, not just you and I and Chris, we're, you know, we're fascinatingly, you know, complex and politics is very much a dynamic between, you know, we think of supply and demand.

15:18So the demand is what people want, what people are, you know, their attitudes, those people are expressing different things.

15:24The supply is what their, what choices they have come election time.

15:27And so it's oversimplistic to think, right, poll says X because of two, well, there's also a problem with polling 16, 17 or 18 year olds.

15:38So one of the, one of the problems there is, well, we don't know if they're going to vote.

15:43So it could look like people are just saying, you know, well, I don't, most of those young, by the way, most of those young people will say, I don't know.

15:49Right. So guaranteed that there'll be a huge, if not most, then a huge proportion of those 16, 17 year olds will be saying, don't know.

16:00So then you've taken away those and you're saying amongst those that give a choice, what is their choice?

16:06And then you still don't know if they're going to hold on to that choice and if it's a firm choice.

16:11And also if they're going to turn out to vote.

16:14But the big question is who's going to be appealing to them and how's that going to change for now and the next election?

16:22And here's a thought.

16:23If you talk to a 16 or 17 year old now, even without a change in the law, in all likelihood, they can vote at the next general election if it's in three or four years time.

16:32If you're a 12 year old now and the election is in 2029, as late as it can be, then you are there to be appealed to in this change in the franchise, which is fascinating.

16:47Most children at secondary school right now falling within the likely franchise of the next UK general election.

16:56Which means we could see some quite cringe appeal to that target audience over the next few years.

17:02But that also helps remind us at the point that I was going to say, but I didn't come back to, which was it's very difficult to poll this group.

17:11It's really difficult, even with the best efforts, to poll younger people in the electorate.

17:18And then you have even greater difficulties when you want to look at non-graduates.

17:24That's a really important divide between generations.

17:28It's not just about generational differences.

17:30It's also about groups within them.

17:31And if you want to look at young non-graduate men, which is the group that reform are claiming that they're starting to appeal to, you're really struggling, even within the 18 to 25 year olds.

17:42It's not impossible.

17:43You have to weight the data to make it representative and everything else.

17:46But you're not getting as many of those people.

17:49Now, harder again to get a 16 or 17 year old.

17:52Not viable right now to get a 12, 13, 13, 15 year old.

17:58And of course, this is the period in your life, you know, you're being socialised, you're being, you're learning.

18:06You know, this is the time when you're starting to form your opinions.

18:11They're certainly not formed yet.

18:12And you mentioned, Chris, the situation in Scotland and Wales.

18:16So we thought we would just get a little catch up about how that's been going now that we've had votes for 16 and 17 year olds in the Senate and in the Scottish Parliament for a little while.

18:24So here are some voice notes from Felicity Evans, host of Walescast, and James Cook, often host of Newscast.

18:32So here in Wales, we've already had one major set of elections where 16 and 17 year olds had the vote.

18:39And that was in 2021 at the elections for the Welsh Parliament or the Senate.

18:44And, you know, it was controversial when votes at 16 came in.

18:48Lots of the arguments rehearsed are the same that are being rehearsed now across the UK.

18:52But the added Welsh context, perhaps, is that there's always been concern about a disappointing level of turnout at Senate elections.

19:00It's not hit more than 50 percent of the electorate since devolution began.

19:04And some of those supporting votes at 16 suggested that it might be a good way of getting young people involved in political participation and potentially building a voting habit over time.

19:15When the legislation got passed in the Senate, there was also a proposal that it would be accompanied by a big push in schools to educate young people about the Welsh political process and the Senate and all of that.

19:27Of course, the trouble then is that Covid happened and the pandemic really disrupted schooling with lockdowns and so on.

19:34And it disrupted the Senate election campaign as well, which took place under very great restrictions.

19:40So a lot of people think that perhaps 2021 was a bit of a false start in assessing the impact of votes at 16.

19:46And it may well be that next year's Senate election in May will be a better opportunity to do that.

19:53But one thing's for sure, unless there's a big shocker at Westminster here in Wales, we will have had two major elections involving 16 and 17 year old voters before the next UK general election.

20:05Hello, my newscast friends.

20:08So we had this debate a long time ago in Scotland in 2014 when the SNP decided to include 16 and 17 year olds in the franchise for the independence referendum.

20:19And the UK government agreed, even though the Scottish Conservatives were opposed and there were accusations at the time that the SNP was trying to tilt the playing field in favour of independence and against the union,

20:31because generally speaking, independence is more popular with younger voters than older ones.

20:36I mean, those in favour said, well, hang on a minute, these 16 and 17 year olds are going to be affected by this momentous decision for the rest of their lives.

20:42So they should have a say.

20:43One of my most striking memories of that campaign was chairing a debate at Glasgow's giant concert venue, the Hydro, with 16 and 17 year olds from all over the country.

20:54I think we had more than 7000 school students in the audience and those that spoke were very motivated, very engaged.

21:02And interestingly, the referendum experience seemed to change people's minds because polls suggest that there was a huge jump in support for votes at 16 after the referendum.

21:13And then in 2015, the Scottish Parliament voted to allow 16 and 17 year olds to participate in all future Hollywood and local elections in Scotland.

21:22And interestingly, that was unanimous.

21:25The Tories had changed their mind.

21:26The then leader, Ruth Davidson, said she'd been really impressed by younger voters.

21:30She was on the panel at that debate, actually, at the Hydro.

21:33And then there is some evidence after that that the policy has actually boosted electoral engagement among younger people.

21:41Researchers from Edinburgh and Sheffield universities suggest that there's a lasting positive effect on turnout as people grow up if they vote when they're 16,

21:50although it should be said not on their wider engagement with politics.

21:53So, newscasters, in summary, this was a bit, a bit, not hugely, but a bit controversial to begin with in Scotland.

22:00And that has definitely changed.

22:02It's much more settled now.

22:04See you all soon.

22:04Bye bye.

22:05So that's the picture from around the UK.

22:07But Chris, my question to you when we were introducing this concept,

22:10I also said the government had to edit out one of their rationales for why this is a good idea today due to a typographical error.

22:17Oh, yes.

22:18Did you see this?

22:18I only caught half of this.

22:21So basically, Angela Rayner, our Deputy Prime Minister, a person you were interviewing, a person who was unveiling all of this,

22:25wrote in the Times, in her list of reasons why 16 and 17-year-olds should be able to vote,

22:31she said in her op-ed, as they're called in the trade, that you can also get married.

22:35And then people pointed out, well, no, the law was changed, so you have to be over 18 to get married.

22:38And then Angela Rayner's department clarified that that was an earlier draft of her article, which they had changed.

22:46But for some reason, the original draft ended up on the newspaper website.

22:50Ah, the old early draft thing.

22:52How the sausage is made, or how people claim the sausage is made.

22:55But it's back to that thing, isn't it, about what is adulthood?

22:57Mm.

22:58Well, yeah, because the age of responsibility, criminal responsibility, is 10.

23:01And also, Jane, I mean, you'll hang out with some academics who will argue that actually, morally, you should be able to vote as soon as you're born.

23:09I mean, I've heard some quite esteemed people in your world making that argument.

23:13I have not heard a single person I know say that.

23:17I mean, maybe I haven't asked around enough and looked under enough stones.

23:21But it's a really interesting one, isn't it?

23:24Because adulthood, you know, what those things that you can't do to your 18 are about are about protections.

23:32So protections, you know, yeah.

23:34So protections about getting married or smoking or going into combat.

23:39So this is all about protection of the young.

23:42And obviously, voting is not like that.

23:43Voting is more about responsibility and integration into society and having a stake.

23:47So I think that's kind of a crucial difference because, you know, it's very easy to say, well, but, you know, you have to be 18 to do this, that, and the other.

23:55It's like, well, they're just totally different reasons for those things.

23:58I'm going to issue myself with a correction.

24:00And actually, the person I was thinking of who's very esteemed in your world, Jane, is Professor David Runciman at Cambridge.

24:07Ah, well, not at Oxford then.

24:09Oh, that was the problem, I see.

24:11That's my otherwise, you know.

24:13Classic.

24:14It's like the boat race playing out in podcast form.

24:16Yeah, and he did a very successful podcast series about the history of ideas and stuff.

24:22And it's a great lesson.

24:23His argument is that morally, you could make the case for lowering the voting age to six.

24:29Well, you can't say.

24:30What you can't say is that you've got to be informed, can you?

24:37I mean, that's, I suppose, part of that logic, that it's not about having a really informed, you know, rational view.

24:43Because, frankly, that would rule out loads of people, wouldn't it?

24:47Loads of adults.

24:48Because we vote for a very emotional reason.

24:50And how on earth do you define something like that anyway?

24:52I know.

24:53I know.

24:53It's like the philosopher King's kind of, you know, idea that you've got to be really smart and then you can make decisions in politics.

25:00Well, I'm sorry, but that's not how democracy works.

25:03I'm intrigued by the five to six-year-old distinction.

25:05But, again, it's the way you draw an arbitrary line.

25:07Is that going to be a big deal in the Mason households?

25:08Yeah, it might provoke a discussion.

25:13Also, Chris, I mean, how has this gone down with the other parties?

25:16I mean, do they, because I've seen the Tories sort of suggesting it's sort of trying to gerrymander the electoral system in Labour's favour,

25:23which if they'd been listening to Jane, they would know they couldn't really make that argument.

25:26The conservatives, the potted version of your answer to your question is the conservatives and reform think it's a bad idea.

25:33The Liberal Democrats and some others think it is a good idea.

25:37The argument the conservatives make, alongside pointing to those, you know, the various things that you can do at 16 and those are the things that you can't do until you're 18.

25:48They say, is there not a central absurdity here that you would be able to take part in an election as a voter, age 16, that you can't actually stand in as a candidate?

26:01And they suggest that that is an absurdity.

26:05And also, there's some other things have been announced today as well about the electoral system.

26:09It's not just votes at 16 and 17.

26:11This idea that people will be automatically enrolled on the electoral register so that the process of being able to actually get the vote in the first place will become much easier and simpler and more automatic.

26:23Yeah, and I've heard from some folk who say that that could make a bigger difference in cephalogical terms than,

26:31I think it's around about a 2% expansion of the electorate that's extending the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds offers.

26:42So, yeah, what difference does, and again, we've had this argument in a different form, haven't we, in the last couple of years.

26:47What difference does either lowering or raising the potential barriers to entry to taking part in democracy make?

26:53You know, we've had the argument about ID at polling stations, et cetera, et cetera.

26:59If you remove the whole business of, you know, failing to fill in a form that the council sent you and you lost somewhere under the sofa or whatever,

27:08do you increase the likelihood of people who are up for voting?

27:14Because they actually can, as opposed to realising that they'd like to, but they can't because they never filled in the bit of paper.

27:18And also this thing about voter ID, they're now going to say you can use your bank card to use as your ID.

27:26But then I was thinking, I'm pretty sure I've got a bank card that doesn't have my name on it.

27:30Do you?

27:30You're one of these challenger banks, but actually I've just looked at it and it just doesn't have the card number on it.

27:34It does have my name on it.

27:35I think, you know, the effects of asking people to have photographic voter ID, you know, were important in the last general election.

27:45And they did, they did diminish turnout somewhat.

27:49And the problem is they-

27:50Only somewhat though.

27:51Yeah, but it's nevertheless a lot of people and it's not the same people, right?

27:56So, you know, people with disabilities might be less likely to be able to vote.

28:00People who don't have passports or so on and so forth.

28:04Students, this was a big argument at the time that you couldn't use your student card.

28:08But there were loads of different ways that you could use cards such as bus passes for the over 65s and so on and so forth.

28:17And that it was seen to not be essentially equitable.

28:21So the good thing, obviously, about a bank card is that pretty much everybody has one.

28:26So I think, you know, I frankly think whilst it's not a big effect, it's something that wasn't necessary to actually make it harder for people not to vote in the last election.

28:35It's not going to be a massive effect looking at the next election, but it was a really easy and sensible thing, I think, to fix.

28:43Right. I want to know what you two were like, age 16.

28:47Who wants to go first?

28:49After you, Jane.

28:53Oh my goodness. This is the question they don't warn you about.

28:57Yeah, no, I know. You and me both.

28:59Chris, I have a fairly good idea what you were like at 16, having met you at 19.

29:03Okay. So what I was like was not as nerdy as you'd think.

29:10Oh, come off it.

29:11No, definitely not. I didn't. Definitely not. I never really was.

29:15Although my friends, if they listen to that, are going to be arguing that one year of my life, if I did really, really, really apply myself really, really hard in university, but it was one year, but those years.

29:24So I wasn't as nerdy as you thought, as you would think. And I was probably, probably just obsessing about music.

29:35Oh, which band in particular? Not to try and catch you out on your age?

29:40So I played a few things, a few instruments. So I was doing that. I would have been singing and I would, oh gosh, age 16, probably like Crowded House, REM, with my friend.

29:53I'm going to name check her. She'll love this. Susan in her Nova.

29:57And we would be driving around in her Red Nova, singing our little hearts out.

30:03And Chris, would you like to paint a picture of Minnie Mason?

30:06Yeah. So, I mean, I was nerdy than you could possibly imagine. And I reckon probably more nerdy than I am now, actually.

30:13And I was listening to and going to see Cooler Shaker and Placebo, but I did also go and see REM.

30:23So there's a bit of a crossover there. And I learned to drive in a Vauxhall Corso, which I think was the successor to the Nova.

30:32So there you go.

30:32Yeah, it was definitely a Vauxhall Nova.

30:34I'm going to get sponsored by another car brand at this race.

30:37So I was 16 in 1996. And I mean, I was going to the cinema pretty much every other day.

30:44And I've just looked at the top 10 grossing films in 1996. And what a year. Independence Day, Twister, Mission Impossible, The Rock, Hunchback of Notre Dame, 101 Dalmatians, Ransom, The Nutty Professor, Jerry Maguire and Space Jam.

30:59What an amazing summer I had in 1996.

31:01You did, but those films did not come out that long ago.

31:04It was 1996 when I was there.

31:08No, it's not.

31:09And also about this time in 1996, I would have been starring in my school production of Fiddler on the Roof, which has recently just been on in London, but which I couldn't get a ticket for and was phenomenally expensive.

31:21And what were you starring?

31:23Oh, a very minor role. Not one of the big ones. Not one of the big ones.

31:27It's all about the music, though. Britpop. We're the same age, aren't we, Adam?

31:30So 1996 for me was all about Britpop and then the Spice Girls, I think, were just around the corner.

31:36And then I remember getting incredibly excited, going back to the nerdiness thing, because I think it was 97 rather than 96, when Channel 5 TV launched.

31:45Oh, loved the launch of Channel 5.

31:46That was 97, so that was when we were 17.

31:48Yeah, yeah, with the Spice Girls, I think, in launch night.

31:53Yeah, I remember that like it was yesterday.

31:55And on that note, I've just had an email, a spam email saying how to lose fat after 40.

32:00So thanks for that outlook.

32:02Right. Jane, lovely to catch up.

32:05Lovely to see. I will talk to you both. And thank you.

32:09And Chris, good to catch up with you too on a very, very busy day at Westminster.

32:12Who says that the days before recess are quiet?

32:15No, exactly. Mark Morrison, Return of the Mac, I think that might have been 1996 as well.

32:20This is like sidetracked, but like a really, really bargain version.