00:00Women hit menopause at 30-something, but it's genetic.
00:03Biologically, women hit menopause at 45, plus some hit at 40.
00:07In rare cases...
00:08What?
00:09Fertility struggles can test the strongest marriages physically, emotionally, and financially
00:14as we mark World IVF Day 2025, themed Celebrating Hope, Advancing Science.
00:22What's the real cost of chasing parenthood?
00:25All of this and more you will be finding out on Guardian Talks.
00:28I am Timmy Tayo.
00:30Olu Mofen.
00:30Stick around.
00:40Joining us to unpack this personal but widespread issue is scientist Amaka Didiogo.
00:47Welcome to Guardian Studios.
00:49Thank you for having me.
00:50I mean, great to have you.
00:53Let's just get to the business.
00:55First of all, we know we're celebrating World IVF Day 2025, and there's been a whole lot
01:03of challenge or even challenges in marriages when it comes to fertility issues.
01:09To begin with, why are fertility challenges still such a taboo topic in many Nigerian marriages,
01:16and what are the social consequences of this silence?
01:19Well, the reason is due to cultural and societal expectations towards womanhood and manhood.
01:29You know, they feel once you're not able to bear children, you're seen as a failure.
01:35So that's just the reason.
01:38And then secondly, when these things are not identified on time, you know, we're dealing
01:44with age here, and it's time.
01:45Time is fleeting.
01:46So when it's not identified on time, by the time you get ready to, like, proceed into
01:51the next stage of getting IVF done, you are dealing with reduced success rate due to the
01:58age factor.
01:59So, and then the expectation on the woman especially, and you know, we're dealing with two people
02:06here.
02:06It takes two to tango.
02:07Right.
02:08So the expectation on the woman is just so immense, and ignoring the man who contributes
02:14to 40 to 50% of the fertility, yeah, so it's just a, he has to do with a lot of insight.
02:23Right.
02:23Yes, towards a couple as a whole.
02:26Right.
02:26Okay.
02:27Now, with over 18,000 IVF cycles recorded in Nigeria, that's in 2023, according to Fertility
02:34Hope Nigeria, what factors determine success, and why is a 50% success rate still considered
02:41ambitious?
02:43Like I mentioned earlier, these factors that determine the success rate of IVF is, number
02:49one is age, number two is the quality of the sperm cell.
02:53Why is age a determining factor?
02:55Because as you grow older, your hormones change, the quality of your body changes, especially
03:03like women, you know, for women, they hit menopause at 45, plus or minus.
03:10Okay.
03:10Then the men...
03:11It's not 50 and above?
03:12No, 45.
03:14We've had cases of people getting pregnant after 45, but it's rare.
03:17But biologically, women hit menopause at 45, plus some hit at 40.
03:22In rare cases...
03:23What?
03:23Yes.
03:23In rare cases, which I've personally encountered, it's genetic.
03:27Okay.
03:28Women hit menopause at 30-something, but it's genetic.
03:31So, but back to the factors, you know, the sperm cell, the quality of the egg, the expertise
03:40of the clinic that you're dealing with.
03:43So, that contributes.
03:44And, you know, IVF is not a determinant that you're going to really have the baby.
03:50It just increases the chances of pregnancy happening.
03:54Right.
03:54So, it doesn't guarantee that you're going to have a child, even if you go through IVF?
03:59No, it doesn't guarantee.
04:00It doesn't.
04:01It's 50%.
04:02Right.
04:02Yes, it's 50, because it's...
04:05We're dealing with biology here.
04:07We're dealing with the human body.
04:08So, you know, you can't really say 100%.
04:11Okay.
04:11So, what should couples realistically expect emotionally, financially, when opting for
04:18fertility treatment like IVF?
04:21Going through IVF is a roller coaster.
04:24It's a lot.
04:26Emotionally, the physical discomfort, it's a lot.
04:29And in Nigeria, I don't think insurance covers IVF.
04:33So, you're paying out of pocket.
04:34It's cost about $3 to $8 million, depending on the clinic and the location.
04:40So, and it's just a lot.
04:42You just have to be prepared that it will take a toll on your mental health.
04:46Wow.
04:47Yes.
04:47Why is it that?
04:49Well, because, you know, you're dealing with infertility already before walking into the
04:54clinic to get this procedure done.
04:56You have, as a woman, especially, you have to take a lot of injections.
05:00Your man just, you know, produces the sperm cell and then he takes it to the lab.
05:03But the woman takes a lot of injections, runs through series and series of tests.
05:08You know, it's just draining emotionally.
05:11Okay.
05:12How can both partners in marriage support each other through the often strenuous journey
05:17of the fertility treatment?
05:19Now, that brings us to the kind of person you marry.
05:22Because if, as men, it helps, when, as a man, if you're going through infertility with
05:31your wife, you are expected to, you know, be there for each other.
05:35You know, you communicate.
05:36You go to appointments together.
05:38You don't just leave it for the woman to, you know, handle it herself alone.
05:42You know, some men believe that once they produce sperm cells, that is all they need.
05:46Irrespective of if it's healthy sperm cells or dead sperm cells.
05:50Because, you know, the man needs to be enlightened that there are, you know, sperm diseases that
05:56people, men are going through, but they don't even know.
05:58They feel that once, after copulation, a sperm cell is released.
06:02That is all they need.
06:03But that is actually wrong.
06:04Okay.
06:04So, you actually need to be there and be enlightened, research together, go for therapy if there's
06:09need be, you know, visit the doctor on time, and then communicate.
06:13And, you know, because if you let it go, or if you let it linger for long, you will start
06:18experiencing abuse or eventually divorce.
06:21Right.
06:22So, many men don't even know that there are diseases with sperm, or that comes with sperm.
06:27Yes.
06:28Yes.
06:28There's a disease that is called azospemia.
06:31Okay.
06:31Yes, you release sperm cells, as a man, a man releases sperm cells, but all the sperm
06:37cells are dead.
06:38Yes, there is no life sperm cell.
06:40And you can only...
06:41Thinking he's released already.
06:42Yes.
06:43But they are dead.
06:44They are all dead.
06:45Yes.
06:45And you can only find out if you take it to the lab.
06:48Without taking it to the lab, you can't find out.
06:51Yes.
06:52Okay, so it brings me to freezing of eggs.
06:55You know, I'm still going to go to that popular influencer's take on what she said about herself.
07:02So, freezing of eggs, how healthy or how advisable it is for a woman who's not ready to give birth.
07:11And then, you just say, for future purposes, or because of the age you also made reference to earlier, maybe let me just freeze my egg to make sure that I am secure.
07:22And when the time comes, I can unfreeze them, then go for childbearing.
07:26How viable is that?
07:27That is the...
07:29That is the...
07:31I'm trying to find the word to use, but that's the...
07:34That's a very, very smart thing to do as a woman, if you freeze your egg.
07:38Because it's just like outsmarting nature.
07:42Like I mentioned earlier, women hit menopause at 45.
07:45Okay.
07:45Now, imagine if a woman decides to freeze her eggs at 30.
07:49And like I mentioned earlier, as you age, the egg quality decreases.
07:53That's because there's what we call antimalarion hormone.
07:55Okay.
07:56It's AMH.
07:56It decreases as you age.
07:58And that determines the quality of the egg.
08:01So, if you get to 45 and you decide to try IVF, most times you'll be advised to use a donor egg.
08:07Because the egg of a 45-year-old man is already weak.
08:10And if conception takes place, if conception takes place, it might not, you know, get to the full term.
08:16But now, imagine if you're using the egg you froze 15 years ago or 10 years ago.
08:22The quality will be superb compared to what we have at 45.
08:26Then how sure are you that the quality of the egg is still going to be great?
08:30After maybe 10 years ago, you've frozen it.
08:33Now, we're comparing the quality of the frozen egg to the quality of the 45-year-old egg that we're dealing with right now.
08:39It would be better off.
08:41We're not saying it's 100%, but it would be better off than what we're going to have in the present.
08:45So, it's advisable that you freeze your egg.
08:48If you don't want to have children now, if you're not prepared now, even if you're not married now and you know you'll marry later and you want to have children, it's best you freeze your egg.
08:56But these things aren't a joke.
08:58They're expensive.
08:59They're very expensive.
09:00That's why we need to, you know, talk to the Minister of Health or something about it so that these things will be insured.
09:06And subsidized, maybe.
09:07Yes, exactly.
09:08Okay, so it brings me to the popular influencer who recently revealed that although she's medically fine, but she chooses surrogacy.
09:18What does this say about, I mean, evolving choices and fertility?
09:23And how should society respond to women making such personal decisions?
09:28I don't want to be blunt and say her body had choice.
09:33But we have, this is 2025.
09:36These people, they have the right to choose how they want to birth children.
09:43And this might be coming from a place of past trauma, you know, you don't know what she has seen, you don't know what she has experienced, or her career pathway.
09:53Let's take, for instance, Serena Williams and Naomi Osaka.
09:57These people were our top tennis players.
10:01Serena Williams has retired, but Naomi Osaka is still playing.
10:04But there was a decline in their career path immediately they had children.
10:09They look fit quite all right, but something has happened to the body.
10:12So you can't take this away from the woman biology.
10:16So if someone says she doesn't want to have children, even though she's medically fine, she has the right to choose how she wants to have these children.
10:23Because, you know, as a society, we believe that once a woman wants to get something, she has to toil and suffer for it.
10:30If she doesn't suffer for it, that means she's not deserving of that.
10:33So we have to take that mentality out of the picture and then allow people to have children the way they want to.
10:39So, you know, this reason also limits a lot of couples from adopting.
10:48Because they feel, oh, that's the easier route and people are going to castigate, people are going to talk a lot.
10:52So they just shy away from it and keep on waiting and waiting for them to have their own children biologically.
10:57So I feel at this point, in this age and time, we should allow people to make choices the way they seem fit, as long as they're not hurting the next person.
11:05Person.
11:06So is their body their choice?
11:08Exactly.
11:09Their money their choice.
11:10Exactly.
11:10Right.
11:11Okay.
11:11So beyond science, what role do mental health and societal pressure play in fertility conversation and how can they be addressed?
11:19Well, it's about the pressure.
11:26In-laws, your families, you know, religious bodies mount on couples.
11:33You know, we just waited one year ago, why don't you have a child or when are you going to give your child a sibling?
11:40I feel we have come so far that we should understand that we should just choose our words correctly.
11:47You know, you don't just walk up to people and you're asking them when they will have babies.
11:51You don't know what they're dealing with.
11:53And then you, I feel if these things are addressed properly, you know, the enlightenment is done.
12:00I think people will stop asking unnecessary questions.
12:03And then couples also need to be encouraged to go for therapy.
12:06Right.
12:07Because the pressure is a lot.
12:08And you don't get to hear what they go through until they have their child.
12:12That is when they eventually open up.
12:14Now, think of people who have not even had their own child.
12:17What they're actually going through.
12:19So, that therapy needs to be introduced.
12:23So that, especially during IVF procedures, that therapy needs to be introduced.
12:26So that couples can attend therapy together and, you know, go through it together.
12:32So, any word of hope to women out there who are facing fertility issues from scientists, Amaka?
12:40Always remember, you are not alone.
12:44And by God's grace, you will have your baby.
12:49No matter how long it takes.
12:51No matter how the turmoil you're facing right now.
12:54Just have hope and don't lose it.
12:56And please, to the men, help your wives.
12:59Get tested.
13:01You know, it takes two to tango.
13:02Always remember.
13:03Get tested and go through these things together.
13:05So, I wish you all the luck.
13:08All right.
13:09Fertility is personal, but the conversation matters, right?
13:13Thank you so much, Dr. Amaka Didiogo.
13:16Scientist, right?
13:18Medical Laboratory Scientist, Reproductive Physiologist, Research Enthusiast, and Gender Selection Expert.
13:27I mean, we are delighted and we appreciate your time here at Guardian TV.
