How to train your cardiovascular fitness | Peter Attia - video Dailymotion

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This clip is from episode #261 of The Drive - Training for The Centenarian Decathlon: zone 2, VO2 max, stability, and strength  In this special episode filmed live in front of readers of Outlive, Peter answers questions revolving around his concept of the centenarian decathlon.  In this clip, we discuss:  - The pyramid of cardiorespiratory training - Peter’s zone 2 training and recommendations - Peter’s VO2 max training and recommendations  -------- About:  The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 60 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.  Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.

Transcript

00:00If you're really committed to developing your cardiorespiratory fitness,

00:04you know, I think I talked about this on one of the podcasts, maybe it was on Tim's podcast.

00:09You're trying to maximize the area of a triangle, right? So the triangle has a base

00:14and the triangle has a peak. And the goal is how big an area can I get? Not how wide,

00:21not how tall. You don't want one that's this wide and this tall, and you don't want one that's this

00:25tall and this wide. You want the max. The base is your zone two. The peak is your VO2 max.

00:33From a training perspective, the rule of thumb that is applicable for people like us, i.e. normal

00:39people, and the best athletes in the world is roughly 80-20. 80% of your volume is down here,

00:4820% of your volume up here. In fact, some of the really, really elites are probably closer to 90-10.

00:54So you're saying no matter if you're just an ordinary athlete or you're the best of the best,

01:00it's still roughly the same?

01:03Tadi Pogacar, who's the greatest cyclist on this planet, two-time winner of the Tour de France,

01:10you know, absolutely mopping up the field of cyclists like they're children,

01:15that guy's doing 80% to 90% of his training at Zone 2. And I know that for a red fact because we

01:21know who his coach is. So then let's maybe talk about that pyramid. So maybe let's just step back

01:26and say... I didn't answer your question, by the way, about VO2 max, which we can come to, but...

01:29Yeah. So maybe I was just going to say, maybe let's just cover the whole pyramid. So what's

01:32the training of the whole pyramid? If you know it's kind of 80%, 20%, let's break out what that looks like.

01:36So I just start with how much time am I willing to put into this? Now, I got to be honest with you.

01:40I wish I could be putting 10 hours a week into cardio. I do. I mean, historically, I've put in

01:4714 to 20 hours a week into cardio up until 10 years ago. So like, I really miss those days. I miss

01:54being insanely fit. You know, I miss that terribly. And I miss the joy of that much training.

02:01Um, it's simply not possible today. I, you know, for all of the obligations that I have, and

02:08there's, I've done the math 10 ways to Sunday, I'd have to give up something I'm not willing to give

02:13up. I've had to give up archery or give up driving or give up my kids or something like,

02:19I'm just, I'm not willing to give any of these things up. So yeah, I basically start with what's

02:23the most amount of time I can put into dedicated cardio. And for me, it's like four to five hours a

02:28week, not including rucking. I sort of keep that in its own bucket. So then it's a very simple

02:33calculation. 80% of that time is zone two and 20% of that time is VO2 max. And how are you breaking

02:40out? Let's just start with zone two. How many? I divide it into four workouts a week. So four?

02:47Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday. And do you always recommend doing it over? Like,

02:55let's say you could do four hours in one day. Is there the same benefit of doing all your zone

03:01two in one day versus spreading it out? No, I think, you know, I've talked about this

03:05within you go. His view is if you can get at least 30 to 45 minutes, you should spread them out. So

03:11again, if you're only able to commit an hour to it, it might be one hour once or 30 minutes twice.

03:17Um, but I'm sort of doing 45 to 45 minutes to 60 minutes each time is what I do.

03:26And are you doing zone two VO2 max on the same day?

03:31One of those days. So Saturday, uh, sort of Tuesday, Thursday is just zone two, uh, and then

03:39two long sessions of, uh, stability training. So it's like, call it an hour of zone two,

03:46an hour of stability. Actually, why don't I just walk you through the whole week? That'll be

03:49easier. So Monday is just strength training. So that's about, uh, 90 minutes to two hours when

03:56you include the stability training that I do as well. So movement prep, stability training,

03:59strength training, and that's all lower body. That's Monday. Uh, Tuesday is zone two followed

04:06by dedicated hour of stability. Wednesday is, uh, upper body strength and stability. Again,

04:1590 minutes to two hours. Thursday is a repeat of Tuesday. Friday is a repeat of Monday. Saturday

04:23is zone two in the morning, upper body strength, repeat of Wednesday in the afternoon. Sunday

04:33is zone two followed by VO2 max. And will you ever do VO2 max before you do zone two?

04:41Um, I generally don't just because I like to have a lot of reps before I go for broke. So even when I

04:53was like a cyclist and doing two zone VO2 max workouts a week, they were always preceded by a long,

05:01uh, the metric we would use, um, on a bike was kilojoules. So it was how many kilojoules of work

05:07would you do before you would do the super hard sets? And it had to be at least a thousand kilojoules,

05:12which would translate to at least a thousand calories of work. And for zone two, I know you

05:19said you kind of like to break it up is if someone is like, Hey, you know, I can do four days a week

05:25of zone two, but I can only do 15 minutes a day. Would you say? Then I'd compress it. I would say do

05:31two thirties. So, so in your zone two sessions, you like to do at least 30 at a minimum. Yeah.

05:39And now when you're in those zone twos, are you like when you hit the bike and the clock starts?

05:45No, I take 10 minutes. I'm on, I do it all mine on a bike. Um, sometimes on a treadmill, but what I

05:51do is there's a, like a little, it's a, it's, it's the, the computer is programming to the Wahoo

05:58kicker, which is the device I'm sitting on. So it's, it's taking 10 minutes to ramp me up

06:02and maybe just walk through what modalities can people do zone two on treadmill by anything that

06:10is steady state. So, you know, swimming is a great way to do it because you can really swim in a pool

06:17at a steady state. Um, running is a great way to do it because you can pretty much run at a steady

06:22state. Cycling outdoors is generally hard. Um, unless you have specific, like Fiesta Island was

06:30a great place to train. I used to train at Fiesta Island because for people who don't know where that

06:34is in San Diego, it's where all with a time trial bike races were, and it's just a seven kilometer

06:39loop that you can ride on without lights or any, like there's no traffic or anything that gets in

06:44your way. But for the most part, like I wouldn't be able to do zone two outside here in Austin.

06:49It's just, it's too hilly and there's too much traffic and it just, it, it's, it's, it's fits

06:56and starts. I can do my VO two max here because I go to a hill and that's my favorite way to do VO two

07:01max is on a hill that's about a mile long and just do very hard up the hill and then easy down the hill.

07:08But, um, a treadmill is another great way to do it. Just kind of a walking incline typically

07:14rowing machine. If you're really a good rower, um, you have to be efficient enough. Most people

07:22are not efficient enough and they just, they don't have the strength. They don't have the

07:26stability to row really well for 45 minutes. Stair climber is another really good one. Um,

07:33but you know, it depends again, if you're, if you're starting out brisk walking is probably

07:40good enough too. Yeah. And we, we don't have to get into all the reasons of the benefits of zone

07:46two, because we have so many podcasts with Inigo, San Milan, people can listen to, but you kind of

07:52hinted at another thing there, which is, you know, when you start your zone two workouts, you'll ramp up.

07:57But also a lot of times we get questions where, you know, Hey, I did a 90 minute workout and I was

08:04in zone two for 45 minutes of it. Is that, am I good? No. I mean, what I think what you mean in

08:11that question is, you know, like I went out for a three hour bike ride today. And, um, when I got

08:17back, my computer told me I was in, I did 44 minutes of zone two. So two issues there. One is that's just a

08:22zone two based on heart rate. That's generally the worst approximation of zone two. So zone two

08:27two really is more based on lactate. If we're going to be purely accurate or at a minimum, um, RPE.

08:33But even if you posit that, that 45 minutes of zone two from your heart rate is roughly accurate,

08:40it's not the same physiologically. Cause usually you're passing in and out of zone two in that

08:44situation. And so you're not getting kind of that constant steady state churn, which you're looking

08:50for. What we're really kind of looking for is the harnessing of mitochondrial efficiency.

08:54And to do that, you just, you have to be able to push oxidative phosphorylation right

09:00to its limit before you trip into glycolysis. And you're just, you're at the limit of that

09:07glycolysis being the dominant energy source. Whereas if you're on that ride, you're going

09:12into and out of glycolysis constantly. So it's not that you're so much in zone two for 45 minutes

09:17is that you passed through zone two for a sum total of 45 minutes, which again, that's the

09:23still, there's still value in that, but not for what we're talking about.

09:27Yeah. And what about VO two max? What modalities can you do VO two max training on?

09:33Uh, you know, here, I think it's, it's probably easier in a way, right? Because it's pretty much

09:37anything that gets your heart rate up and gets you very tired. Um, so, you know, look, it could be, uh,

09:44uh, you know, an air bike, it could be a regular bike. It could be a stationary bike,

09:49stair climber, treadmill running outside, you know, the sky's almost the limit. You know, it's,

09:56it's hard to do it on, you know, it's hard, it would be hard to do it.

10:01I'm trying to think, I mean, heck, you could probably do it with something like burpees is

10:06probably pretty tough. Once you get into something that intense, like jumping, because the sweet spot

10:12for VO two max is kind of three to eight minute intervals. So you don't want to be doing things

10:17that are so intense that you can't do them for at least three minutes. Um, and, and so that's why

10:23I'd kind of hold off on that stuff. I mean, when I was young and I was really fit, I did, I did a lot

10:29of it with jumping, but like those, I mean, I can't jump for three minutes anymore. Like I don't have,

10:35it's just that, you know, I'm not that fit anymore. So I have to rely on easier things.

10:40And so what's your, what's your current VO two max workout? So you mentioned kind of

10:44three to eight minutes on, is it typically I do four on four off is sort of where I spend most of

10:51my time, sometimes three on three off on a rowing machine. Um, I got into that quite a bit last

10:57summer, but these days, um, and sometimes by the way, I just am in a bit of a rush and I'll just do

11:04one minute on two minute off at a much higher intensity on the stair climber. So I have one

11:12of those like industrial grade strength climbers. And sometimes I'll just go sprint for a minute up

11:18the stairs. And then it takes me two minutes to get my heart rate back down to about a hundred

11:23and then repeat that for 20 to 30 minutes. So that's kind of like my poor man's cheating VO two max

11:30workout. Um, but what I really like to do is four minute repeats, four minutes on four minutes off.

11:36And on the four minutes on, are you going a hundred percent for the full, like how,

11:41how should someone think about? Yeah, this is one of those things you have to,

11:44you have to play with this. There's a, this is years and years of practice to know what that feels

11:49like. Um, so again, I'm doing this on a bike. So I'm looking at wattage and, um, my Watts are so low

11:55now I'm embarrassed. I'm not going to tell you what the Watts are because there's so much lower than

11:59they used to be, but I know I have a sense of what I need to average my wattage over those four

12:05minutes. So I might go out at 105% of that wattage and it feels pretty easy for the first minute.

12:16If it doesn't, I've gone too hard by three minutes. I'm very uncomfortable. And at a minute,

12:25I'm, I mean, with that, in that last minute, IE at four minutes, I'm, I don't have much left.

12:33So that's, you know, if you go out all out in that first minute, you're not going to get to

12:38four minutes. You're, you're just going to crash and you're, you're sort of not in that zone. You

12:42want to, so it's not, there's no question. I positive split the thing, meaning I do more work

12:47in the first half than the second, but I don't want it to be more than about 10%.

How to train your cardiovascular fitness | Peter Attia

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