00:00As you know, Rockhall is a small, uninhabitable rock located approximately 160 nautical miles west of the Scottish islands of St. Kilda and 230 nautical miles to the north-west of Donegal.
00:13As the Deputy is aware, Ireland has not sought to claim sovereignty over Rockhall. The UK claimed sovereignty over Rockhall in 1955 and sought to formally annex it as part of Scotland under its 1972 Island of Rockhall Act.
00:30The consistent position of successive Irish governments is that Ireland does not recognise Britain's claim of sovereignty over Rockhall. Accordingly, Ireland does not accept that a 12 nautical mile or 22 kilometre territorial sea exists around Rockhall.
00:45Ireland's long-held view is that a rock incapable of sustaining human habitation does not allow for the creation of a territorial sea.
00:53Therefore, the agreement under the TCA relating to access to the UK's 12 to 200 mile zone should apply inside the 12 nautical mile zone around Rockhall.
01:04We understand that the UK takes a different view.
01:08Irish vessels have traditionally fished for haddock, which is subject to a quota limit, and squid, which is not subject to a quota limit, in waters around Rockhall.
01:16Rockhall may be caught both within and outside the 12 nautical miles of Rockhall, but squid is caught within six nautical miles of Rockhall.
01:26Other stocks caught in the waters around Rockhall, both within the 12 mile area and outside, are monkfish and maigran.
01:35I can assure you that reaching an agreement on issues relating to Rockhall requires an important issue for this Government.
01:41The Government continues to be in regular contact with the relevant Scottish and UK authorities on the issue of Rockhall.
01:48Through this engagement, the Government is seeking to address the issue involved, reflecting the long-standing fisheries patterns in the area.
01:55I am committed to finding a way forward, and I will continue to work closely with Thánaiste Harris, who is Minister for Foreign Affairs, as you know, with responsibility also for issues around trade.
02:06You will be aware that both the Thánaiste and the Taoiseach have raised this issue at diplomatic levels, and will continue to do so.
02:15It is a matter that we really would like to resolve at the earliest possible opportunity.
02:20Deputy McLaughlin, I appreciate that you are new in the role, but my difficulty is that what you have just read,
02:36has been said to me again and again and again by Minister McConnell beforehand, this is an uninhabited rock, and there is just no basis under international law for what they are doing.
02:49It has cost millions every year, not just the fishermen in Donegal and Greencastle and Killybegs, but down to Castletown Bear, fishermen from around Ireland.
02:59And it is outrageous action, you know, really outrageous.
03:03I mean, you know, basically a blockade around the rock, threats on people's livelihoods, for fishing in their traditional grounds.
03:14And, you know, at some point, if the British government won't do what's right, we do have to look at international arbitration.
03:21It is just outrageous that it has gone on this long.
03:24Thank you, Minister.
03:26Thanks very much, Deputy.
03:27And I know of your personal interest in this, and indeed others in the area, that have raised it consistently with me.
03:32And it is a position that, I suppose, goes back to the 1955 situation.
03:36And then, obviously, Brexit had this really negative effect from a fisherman's perspective.
03:44On Wednesday next, I'm meeting with the UK Minister with Responsibility of Fisheries Generally, David Zechner.
03:52And I intend to raise it in the context of a broader discussion around challenges that are facing our respective fishing industry.
04:01There will be other discussions at that, too.
04:02I don't want to give the impression to the House that it's just about Rockall.
04:05It's not, but it is something that I will raise in the context of that meeting.
04:09And I intend, obviously, then, in the course of other meetings with both the Scottish Minister and others to discuss this matter at every available opportunity.
04:19But I do note your interest and your indication that arbitration may ultimately be the solution or a pathway towards solution here.
04:30So, I'll continue to work, and I will keep you informed of any developments that arise in this area.
04:36Thank you, May God.
04:38Thanks, Minister.
04:40And, you know, I'm mindful that the previous Scottish First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, according to reports in the Guardian newspaper, was trying to resolve this issue.
04:51But I do feel that, ultimately, it is a jurisdiction issue, and I think the British government have probably been let off the hook in relation to this.
05:00The Trade and Cooperation Agreement was recently extended, the fisheries element, by 12 years.
05:06That is very problematic, because it locks down the loss of fisheries, and I know you're going to work to improve those quotas as a result of that.
05:18But I would have thought this issue should have been resolved as part of that agreement at the time.
05:23And, like, this is bad faith.
05:26It really is by, particularly, I think, the Whitehall Government, but the Scottish Government have been a disappointment to around this.
05:34They know that these are traditional fishing grounds.
05:37They know that these are very important to a fishing industry that's struggling.
05:41And it's really long overdue that they did the right thing.
05:43And I ask you that you strongly convey.
05:45I'm sure both sides of the House agree that this has to stop and it has to be resolved.
05:49Minister.
05:49Well, I can assure the Deputy that it won't be for the want of conveying the feelings of this House, which we're united on.
05:58We're not always united on positions here, but we're very united on trying to find a resolution here.
06:02But I'm conscious, too, that it has to be done through the diplomatic channels.
06:06And I'm conscious that there's significant legacy issues here.
06:09I'm also conscious that, notwithstanding our view by some in this House,
06:16that the securing of access to UK waters for the next 12 years is positive.
06:24But we still have to recognise the loss in relation to quota and how impactful, in a negative way, that has been on our sector.
06:31I'm also conscious that, on the other side, the British fishing sector believe that they have lost significantly as a result of the reciprocal access.
06:42So, there appears to be two losers in this debate.
06:46So, I recognise the difficulties that the British Government have also.
06:52But in recognising that, that doesn't and won't preclude me from fighting the case for Irish fishermen and women,
06:59who have lost a very specific quota in the first instance,
07:04but that squid fishery was a really important part of their economic activity at a particular time of the year,
07:11that's not available anymore.
07:13So, we have to do everything we can to try to address that.
