- 7/3/2025
This India First special broadcast examines India's policy towards Pakistan in light of state-sponsored terrorism and civil society engagement. The discussion covers the recent blocking and unblocking of Pakistani social media handles by the Indian government, the distinction between the Pakistani state and its people, and the consistency of India's approach. Experts debate whether India should maintain cultural and sporting ties with Pakistan, or if a complete severance is necessary. The panel also analyzes the government's explanation for the temporary unblocking of certain Pakistani accounts, with some experts questioning the credibility of the 'technical glitch' rationale.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening. When Pakistan backed terror, singled out Hindus and killed them at Pahlgaam,
00:05a Pakistani cricketer, Shahid Afridi, he was actually taunting India, saying,
00:10you've lax of soldiers in Kashmir and yet Pahlgaam happened.
00:14Iska matlab, tum log nalai ko nikam me ho.
00:17Words to that effect. He wasn't the only one.
00:20There were other Pakistani celebrities who were mocking India.
00:23Mahira Khan, for example, she called Operation Sindur a very cowardly act,
00:26accusing India of genocide and war crimes in the past.
00:31Fawad Khan, another actor, he was shedding tears over targeting of terrorist scams
00:35and he expressed deepest condolences to the families of those who were killed and injured
00:40when India targeted terrorist launchpads and training camps, including at Bahawalpur and Muridke.
00:46And even though government of India claims Operation Sindur is still on,
00:50several of these Pakistani accounts were initially blocked, then unblocked
00:55and now after nationwide outrage, blocked again.
01:04Pakistani YouTube handles unblocked and then blocked again.
01:12A glitch in India's Pakistan policy?
01:16No terror and talks.
01:18But terror and sports is okay.
01:30Is it time to draw a clear red line for Pakistan?
01:34Big focus on India first.
01:36So you have film stars in India who are making films with Pakistani actors.
01:43Cricket and hockey matches are happening, of course, not bilateral but multilateral.
01:48Even though Pakistan has taken new action to address India-centric terror,
01:52the government first unblocks and then after nationwide outrage,
01:55blocks these Pakistani social media handles once again.
01:58With some rather bizarre explanation or excuses being peddled by unnamed sources to journalists.
02:07Why?
02:07They say there's a glitch.
02:09They say at least some of these handles haven't spewed venom for some time.
02:13This wasn't a permanent pact.
02:15But do keep in mind, Pakistan has followed one consistent policy to breed India since its inception.
02:20Since 1947, Pakistan has been bleeding India through a thousand cuts.
02:25The flip-flops are only on the Indian side.
02:28Why?
02:29Is it that we lack a consistent policy in dealing with that radical Islamist terror state
02:34and its citizens who peddle the state's agenda?
02:39We debate that.
02:40I'm Gaurav Savan.
02:41Let's, as always, get started with the headlines on India First.
02:50Huge relief in sight for car owners in the capital.
02:53Delhi government to rethink life vehicle policy denying fuel to old cars likely to be put on hold.
03:06Ghana confers its highest civilian honor on Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
03:10The Prime Minister addresses the parliament in Ghana,
03:13says the world's progress cannot happen without voice of the global summit.
03:20Garnadaka sham car survey exposed.
03:29No real senses, just pasting of stickers.
03:32CCTV images reveal the car's town's eyewash.
03:43Garnadaka Chief Minister Sidharamaya insults the khaki gestures
03:46to slap a senior cop upset over black flag protest.
03:51Insulted cop seeks voluntary retirement.
04:01Shobhaman Gill becomes the first Indian captain to hit a test double ton in England.
04:06He now holds the record for the highest test score by an Indian in England.
04:12Blocked, unblocked, and then blocked again in a matter of hours.
04:25That's what happened to social media accounts and YouTube channels
04:28of some Pakistani celebrities, news channels, anchors, and social media influencers.
04:34The same accounts that were blocked during Operation Sindur
04:37in response to the Pehelgam terror attack.
04:41They became visible in India.
04:43Suddenly, they were there, continuing to spew venom against India in some instances.
04:49Of course, government said, at least through sources, that they had improved.
04:53They were not spewing venom against India in some instances.
04:55But there was nationwide outrage because Pakistan has followed one consistent policy to bleed India.
05:03The flip-flops are only on the Indian side.
05:05So, the government once again blocked these handles and then blamed it on a technical glitch.
05:11What happened?
05:12Let's find out in this report.
05:13A massive political storm erupted on Wednesday when some banned social media handles of Pakistan celebrities
05:31were visible once again in India.
05:34These popular accounts of celebrities and influencers were banned after India launched Operation Sindur
05:43in response to Pakistan-sponsored Pehelgaam massacre.
05:49These accounts were found to be spreading misinformation against India.
05:58Shahid Afridi and Shoev Akhtar, who spewed venom for India,
06:01were at the receiving end along with other prominent personalities.
06:07After outrage brewed online, the government swung into action
06:12and these YouTube pages were blocked once again.
06:17An inside scoop on India Today reveals that some social media handles of Pakistan celebrities,
06:23including YouTube, X or Meta, were visible due to a technical glitch
06:28and was rectified at the earliest.
06:31However, this technical glitch explanation has given opposition fresh ammo to Connor Modi government.
06:38With both supporters and critics upset at this temporary U-turn,
06:43over a very important national security issue,
06:44the government does find itself with a lot of damage to the national security issue,
06:46the government does find itself with a lot of damage to the national security issue.
06:48With both supporters and critics upset at this temporary U-turn
06:50over a very important national security issue,
06:57the government does find itself with a lot of damage control to do.
07:00With both supporters and critics upset at this temporary U-turn over a very important national security issue,
07:10the government does find itself with a lot of damage control to do.
07:14Does India lack a consistent policy in dealing with Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror?
07:27And should a distinction be made between the state and the people?
07:31And can such a distinction be made when not just prominent anchors,
07:36but even some people on the streets in Pakistan openly want Indian film stars,
07:41Indian actresses and Indian women as sex slaves after Operation Sindur?
07:46They've said that they want Indian actresses to be male ghanimat, a war booty, sex slaves.
07:52Joining me on this India First special broadcast is Sushant Sareen.
07:55He's a senior fellow at the Observer Research Foundation.
07:57Dr. Tara Kartha is former National Security Council Secretary Director.
08:01Abhijit Aiyar Mitra is a senior fellow at the Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies.
08:05Suresh Shamal Gupta is the founder and president of All India's Sinai Workers Association's Mumbai unit.
08:10Ashutosh is a senior journalist and analyst. Sanjay Jha joins us as an analyst on this special broadcast.
08:17I have a huge panel. I quickly want to cut across to Pranay Upadhyay joining me on this special broadcast.
08:22My colleague Pranay, what's the government's explanation for the ban, unban and then ban again?
08:29Look Gaurav, when the Twitter handles or the meta handles or the social media handles of these entities
08:35were blocked by Government of India by these platforms, that was on the request of Government of India.
08:41And now they got unblocked because of the technical reason.
08:44And what is the technical reason? As per the government sources, the technical reason is that the ban cannot be a perpetual thing.
08:50It has to be, you know, backed by certain rationals and some legal documents.
08:54And that's why if those documents are not there in place, in time, then they automatically get unblocked.
09:00So the moment it came to notice, the same has been furnished by the Government of India.
09:05And after the emergency review, those, you know, social media handles got blocked again.
09:09But this also shows, you know, especially for those who have been asking and raising questions that, you know,
09:14what does it entail and what it can result into? Why have we blocked these social media handles?
09:20This clearly shows that, you know, unless, if you don't block these handles, they keep spitting venom against India
09:27and anti-India hatred is being spread by these social media handles.
09:30And that's why Government of India again proved the rationale behind it that, you know,
09:34these social media handles need to remain blocked because their trajectory, their track record is well proven
09:41that what they spread in India and using the freedom of expression for the wrong reasons.
09:47Stay with these. Sanjay Jha, government says Operation Sindhuur is still on.
09:51And yet some of these sites get unblocked and then blocked again after nationwide outrage.
09:56In your appreciation, is this lack of consistency due by this glitch explanation that sources in the government are offering?
10:04Hi, good evening, Gaurav. I have a couple of points to make.
10:09Number one, and I think it's important to address them. They're very germane to our conversation today.
10:16Number one is that one star who's been in the news is Diljic Dosanj.
10:22And I want to draw attention to what he said because he's been in the news because of his film.
10:28And he said that he's always believed that music is a unifier, that end of day, there will be people across boundaries who will be united by just the love of culture, tradition, music and love.
10:42And I don't think we can ignore that. You know, for example, right now we are seeing a situation in India.
10:48By the way, like it or not, every country is playing an information war.
10:53And as per the last reports I read, we were ourselves the misinformation and disinformation capital of the world.
11:00In fact, a lot of people believe that the pro-Israel social media trolling originates from our country.
11:06So let's we can debate that another time.
11:08But the larger issue is that Mr. Modi's government put a ban on all kinds of engagement with Pakistan.
11:15Did it stop Pulwama from happening? Did it stop Pahlkam from happening?
11:20Can anybody assured us that despite the fact there will be no people to people engagement, will it put an end to all kinds of hostilities?
11:28And the most hypocritical, we play Pakistan, but in neutral centers.
11:33I think I think that's so farcical.
11:35We played a T20 World Cup in a neutral venue with Pakistan.
11:39I mean, who are you trying to fool with these extremely, in my opinion, immature, infantile and absolutely crude level of, you know, diplomatic games that one is playing?
11:51Okay, let me bring in Sushant Sarin, you agree, juvenile, infantile, India's entire approach to Pakistan.
12:00And Sanjay Jha says, we are the disinformation campaign, you know, capital of the world.
12:06Are we in a way then giving a clean chit to a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror and all the disinformation that comes in from there?
12:13Yeah, you know, these are the purine arguments, which we've heard for many, many years.
12:19And, you know, it was said, why do you have a restrictive visa regime with Pakistan?
12:24Because terrorists don't take visas and come.
12:26Actually, terrorists did take visas and come.
12:28And in any case, the point is that you don't make it easy for terrorists by giving Pakistanis visas.
12:34So that is, you know, so this is the kind of argument that Sanjay is making.
12:38But there are a couple of points on which I will agree with him.
12:40I will agree with him, but I'll come to that in a bit.
12:43On this whole issue of this technical glitch, you know, I find it the most disingenuous argument, Gaurav, for a very simple reason.
12:50Are you trying to tell me that the government officials who are in charge of implementing government policy are not aware of their own rules?
13:00Are you trying to tell me that when the government decides that they will not allow the disinformation
13:06and the misinformation and the propaganda campaigns and scurrilous lies which come from Pakistan on social media, that this was a considered decision and not a knee-jerk, capricious decision?
13:19Now, if the answer to that is very clear to my mind, then it should have been clear to the government.
13:25Now, when you impose a ban, for example, on a terrorist organization, there's a time limit even to that.
13:30In some cases, one year, in some cases, it's five years.
13:33Before the ban lapses, the government officials in charge will go to the courts to ask for an extension in the ban.
13:42We've seen that in the case.
13:43Absolutely.
13:44Are you trying to tell me that these clowns in this ministries in the government today did not know that this had to be done?
13:51Are you trying to tell me that they just let it lapse because they're such big idiots?
13:56So there are very serious questions which need to be asked of these characters.
14:00Secondly, I agree with Sanjay and I believe that, look, if we are taking as a government, as a state, as a people,
14:09if we are taking a strong stand against Pakistan, then the price is not just to be paid by the soldiers on the border.
14:17The price has to be paid by BCCI. It has to be paid by the Hockey Federation.
14:22It has to be paid by the Wrestling Federation, by the Kabaddi Federation and by Diljeet Dosanj.
14:27Right? Everybody has to pay that price.
14:30So you can't say let the soldiers go and die.
14:33But we will continue to play cricket because otherwise we cannot hold a cricket match in India.
14:38Now, let me get…
14:40No, just let me make two very quick points.
14:42Okay.
14:43India was not being allowed to play many tournaments and not being allowed to come into many music competitions.
14:49Did anyone say that, okay, fine, we will not hold music competitions in Europe?
14:53So either we pull our weight or we say we are not going to be participating in that.
14:57And I will agree with Sanjay on that.
15:00And one last point I wanted to make, Gaurav, which is that, you know, when you are talking about the people versus the state, I say that, yes, make a distinction between people and state.
15:15But do the people of Pakistan stand against the policies of their state or do they stand with the policies of that state?
15:24Yes.
15:25And all the jokers whose accounts have been banned were actually parroting the policies of the Pakistani state.
15:31They were not opposing jihadism.
15:33They were not opposing terrorism.
15:34They were not opposing what happened in Pehlgaam.
15:37Sir, let me take it to Ashutosh.
15:39Let me bring in Ashutosh before I bring in Dr. Tara Kartha.
15:42Yes.
15:43Ashutosh, why should only the soldier at the border pay a price?
15:48Two things.
15:49You think our civil society engagement, Diljit Dosanj, should he have a Pakistani actress in his movie or that shouldn't be permitted?
15:59Should we play multilateral cricket or make an effort to have Pakistan ousted from ICC?
16:05See, every Indian has to be part of it.
16:07You agree or you have a different take on it, sir?
16:10See, Gaurav, I think first of all, the government of India should come out openly that what is their doctrine and what is their concept of Pakistan state per se.
16:19I think there's a lot of confusion on that issue.
16:22You remember when Operation Sindhur was happening, the Indian foreign minister seemed to be talking and telling that he spoke to the Pakistan concern and said,
16:32we are not attacking the Pakistan army. We are attacking only the terrorist organization.
16:37And then the prime minister of India was saying that we are taught to listen to the Pakistan.
16:40Now, the issue is if you are fighting with Pakistan and if you believe and convince that Pakistan is inflicting thousand cuts to India and also inflicting such a killing our innocent Indians,
16:53then why there is a distinction made between the terrorist organization operating from the Pakistan and between the army and the people of Pakistan?
17:04People of Pakistan, army, their government and the terrorist organization, why they are not clubbed together and to be taken as a Pakistan as a state?
17:13No. And look, look at, look at the background. The background is when the prime minister Narendra Modi was sworn in in 2014.
17:19Nawaz Sharif was invited. And then what happened? He was going somewhere and suddenly he dropped into the Lahore and met Nawaz Sharif again.
17:28On his way back from Afghanistan.
17:29On his way back from Afghanistan. Yes.
17:30When the Pathan court happened, then I was just really surprised that ISI was, was invited to investigate.
17:38Like, so what is government of India, government of India, that is Modi government's politics?
17:43What is their, what is their national security doctrine?
17:48What is their defense doctrine?
17:49Do they make a distinction between the army and the terrorist organization?
17:53Or do they think that the army, which is really instrumental for terrorism?
17:58Let me get Dr. Tara Kartha, but I'll come back to you on the point about civil society and films and, and cricket, Ashutosh in just a moment.
18:04Dr. Tara Kartha, you heard Ashutosh. Is there, are there too many flip flops in the way the government is dealing with Pakistan state sponsored radical Islamist terror and their civil society?
18:15Okay, I'm going to just say this out. Okay. I never normally don't do this. That was the dumbest argument I ever heard. I mean, you don't understand what war is. You don't, what do you mean? But the India doesn't know the difference on what's Pakistan policies that we don't understand.
18:31This is how you conducted war. You conducted it in an absolutely, what to say, strong, decisive manner. And with each grid. I mean, I can't understand how a senior journalist can't understand this.
18:45You hit the terrorist camp because that was your objective. When they hit back, you hit them back as hard as you could. I'm sorry, this is absolute rubbish.
18:54But in terms of the other aspect, the fact that see in any, any review, when you're going to meta, et cetera, there is a process involved and then they have to come back to you. So sometimes there is a bit of a lapse. When you're doing a, you're banning terrorist organization inside India, you know, that, that process is entirely different. So my assumption is this. Number three.
19:17See, see the, the among those, I mean, there are the one you quoted. I'm not even going to take his name because he's poisonous. He's sheer poison. The one who said that about our actresses, such people blacked out, just don't let them win.
19:33But I think some kind of review is necessary because some of those, see, I'm an analyst. I need to know what is going on in Pakistan. And a lot of some of those sites which were blocked, for example, there was protests in POK. We never got to hear.
19:50So you need to have some review at some point of time to see who can be unblocked, who should be blocked and who should continue to remain so.
19:59Okay. Since you made a direct point about Ashutosh, he wants to quickly respond to you. Ashutosh quickly respond because, you know, Tara Kartha analyzes this very, very closely.
20:09And she says the argument you're offering, sir, is absolute rubbish.
20:12See, see, Gaurav, this, my argument is, is, is really a dumbest argument and a rubbish for the simple reason, because it doesn't suit to the, to the government of the day.
20:22And those who are supporting the government openly and not being, doesn't want to be critical and just want to impersonate as a specialist will always find that.
20:29But where, where, did, did he, did she, or did anybody, did the whole country did not see that how the foreign minister of the country was, was speaking on the, on the ANI and what he was saying.
20:40You are, you are telling to the whole world that we are not attacking you.
20:44Look, who is, who is Asim Munir?
20:46Who is Asim Munir? Is Asim Munir a saint?
20:50Why government of India did not want to attack, attack, attack the, the Pakistani army to begin with?
20:55No. And then you are telling to the whole world that, this is the government which called ISI, ISI agent to come and investigate the Pathan Code.
21:03So yes, I am, I am, I am getting the dumbest argument. But what about those who are openly and, and vulgarly supporting government?
21:12Okay. Dr. Darakarta, you must respond. But, you know, even Sushant Sareen has his hands, his head in his hands.
21:17Why, why, why that? Before I bring in Abhijit and, and Suresh Gupta. Sushant Sareen, quickly, sir.
21:22No, you know, I don't want to be impolite on television. But yeah, I think the simplest word to say is, yeah, he's doubling down on dumbness.
21:36That's the simplest thing I can say. For a very simple reason.
21:39You know, you can keep repeating the same lies over and over again. And keep repeating the same nonsense over and over again.
21:45It has been explained plenty of times, right? Sometimes you give a long rope to the enemy, as you did in Pathan Code.
21:52You did not invite, as Ashutosh says, you invited ISI. No, they, there was an investigation team coming from Pakistan,
22:00because the Pakistan Prime Minister at that point of time, had promised a dispassionate inquiry into that entire incident.
22:06And if you wanted the Pakistanis to go after the terrorists, you had to let them complete their inquiry,
22:11which is why you said, okay, fine, if there's a group coming, let them come. And they were not taken into the operational control areas of the Pathan Code.
22:20But people like Ashutosh, because of their blind Modi derangement syndrome that they suffer from,
22:26they will keep repeating the same lies over and over again. Dr. Jai Shankar very clearly says,
22:32as we did, it was a public announcement that was made after the first attacks were taking place under Operation Sindhu.
22:40That we have attacked terrorist base camps. We are not attacking any civilian or military targets in Pakistan.
22:47We are only attacking terrorists. If the Pakistanis come in the aid of terrorists, then we will club them together,
22:53which is precisely what we did. Now, if in Ashutosh's brain, he cannot process this, then that's his problem, not our problem.
23:00Okay. Since you've said, I wanted to bring in Suresh, but since you've named Ashutosh,
23:05sir, you want to quickly respond? I also want to bring in... Go on, sir.
23:09I love these abuses from those who are supporting the government because they are out to kill...
23:15No, no, no, no, no. I did not disturb you, sir.
23:17No, no, not on this broadcast, sir.
23:18I did not disturb you. I am not here to make my career by supporting government openly.
23:23I am very clear about it. The fact of the matter is,
23:26if has any other government invited an ISI agent as a part of inquiry committee,
23:31what the BJP's stunt would have been?
23:33The government of India did not know that the ISI was engineering all kinds of terrorist activity in the country.
23:38And you are inviting one of the delegation in which this ISI agent was there.
23:43You let him go into the Pathan court who was engineering,
23:46who has inflicted that kind of injury to the Indian nation.
23:50But the fact of the matter is, if they talk something like this,
23:54if they criticize the government, they will not be on the TV channels
23:57and they will not be getting promotion in their career.
23:59But I want to stay on the simple point.
24:01India gave Pakistan the long rope. Fine.
24:04We will let you come down on ground.
24:06Investigate. Investigate.
24:08When they took no action, this time, no dossier was given and Pakistan was bombed.
24:13But it's only an argument I'm offering.
24:15I also want to bring in Suresh Gupta into this conversation since,
24:18you know, Sanjay Jha raised the issue of Diljeet Dussanj.
24:22Suresh Gupta, what is wrong if people-to-people contact is maintained?
24:28After all, you know, that Pakistani actress is not a gun-wielding terrorist.
24:33What is wrong if she's a part of an Indian film, sir?
24:36Why are you against it, sir?
25:08Why are you against it, sir?
25:38Why are you against it, sir?
25:40You can't see the scene.
25:42foreign
26:00foreign
26:02foreign
26:06foreign
26:10foreign
26:12You know, people like Diljeet Dosanj or those close to him, when they say, when this movie
26:28was being shot, India was not at war with Pakistan, that time, Pahlgaam hadn't happened.
26:34But Pulwama had already happened.
26:35And we've been bleeding at the hands of Pakistani state-sponsored radical Islamist terror since
26:411947, for some reason, we failed to rise as a country or people-to-people contact, they
26:50should be maintained.
26:51Even if people like Mubashir Lukman or others say, Indian actresses, yeah, war booty, male
26:56ghanima, bring them back as sex slaves.
27:00Look, I don't know who this Mubashir fellow is.
27:03It's clearly not important enough to be noticed by anyone except for his outrageous statements.
27:07But it's important to remember that there are no rules against bringing Pakistani actors
27:14in.
27:15I think we need an act which comprehensively bars any Pakistani from profiting from Indian
27:22money.
27:23You know, you can't expect the citizen to go over and above the rules that the government
27:29deems fit to enact.
27:30So why are we placing the burden on Diljeet Dosanj?
27:33And I think the burden has to be on the government to enact anything YouTube should not be able
27:38to, YouTube should not allow a single view of a Pakistani channel from India to be monetized.
27:45Same with Instagram, same with Twitter, all of these ban only works up to a point.
27:50You see, you can bypass it with VPN.
27:52So this is very much a case of the government.
27:55You know, we can go screaming about this as much as we want.
27:59But the fact is, the government has to enact legislation.
28:02Second, you know, there are two cases out here with the lifting, first banning and lifting.
28:08The first is, you know, there are two kinds of regulation.
28:11One, where there is a timeout, where all bans are time bound and get automatically lifted.
28:18If that was the case, who was the officer who was designated to review this when the lifting
28:23came up?
28:24There is clearly a case of an error of omission.
28:28Unfortunately, in India, we don't criminalize it.
28:30I have long said it needs to be criminalized, which has to come up, officer, minister, whoever
28:36it is.
28:38Second is a case if there is a ban in permanence, in which case it transitions into a crime of
28:43commission.
28:44Because somebody has clearly seen that there is a ban and has decided to go ahead with it,
28:49with lifting the ban, even when you know, when the prime minister has very clearly said
28:54that there is a pause in Operation Sindur, it is not over yet.
28:59The third out here is we no longer make that distinction between the state and the terrorist.
29:06The prime minister made that very clear on his 10th of May speech.
29:09And I think the West has led in this.
29:11You've seen how, you know, famous composers like Valery Gergiev and things were sacked by
29:15the Munich Opera, by the Munich Symphony Orchestra and things.
29:18Russians are denied visas to come to Europe.
29:22We need to learn from Europe and America.
29:24I think, you know, what George Soros, these global leaders like George Soros and Pierre
29:29Omidyar have made countries like America and Britain and France and Germany do to the
29:36Russians should be our template.
29:38Why is it that we're condemning Diljeet Tosanj, but not the BCCI?
29:42Tell me why.
29:43They're all so proud of the fact that we have the BCCI by the Short and Curlies.
29:48They dance to our tune.
29:49Tell me, tomorrow, if we say that we're going to walk away from the Asian Cup, what is going
29:53to happen to the Asian Cup?
29:55Who is going to watch it?
29:55Let me take that to Sanjay Jha.
29:58Sanjay Jha, you know, if terror and talks cannot happen, terror and cricket should not
30:02happen.
30:02Terror and movies should not happen.
30:04Shouldn't there be a nationwide approach in this, sir?
30:08You know, Gaurav, first and foremost, I'm glad we are having a civilized conversation
30:14on a difficult topic.
30:16Let me add a point here.
30:17Are we not ignoring the Pakistan and the Indian diaspora that lives abroad and, in my experience,
30:25lives even through difficult times without getting into any animus or into all kinds of what I
30:32would call as deep visceral hate or violence?
30:35There has been some.
30:36It happened in the UK a year or two years ago.
30:39But, by and large, Indians and Pakistanis abroad live in great degree of camaraderie and good
30:47spirit.
30:48Till the time Pakistanis come in larger numbers like they do it at Leicester and then they
30:53start targeting our temples and then they start killing our people and then they start raping
30:57up, you know, women and it's happened.
31:00Pakistan has massive grooming gangs, massive in the United Kingdom.
31:05You know, Dr. Tharakarta wants to come in.
31:06I want you to complete that point.
31:07Sure.
31:08But, Gaurav, let me finish my point.
31:10Gaurav, let me finish my point.
31:12I'm saying that there have been sporadic instances.
31:15I said it myself.
31:16I actually owned up to it.
31:18So, there's not anything new.
31:20My larger point is on an overall basis.
31:23I have seen it.
31:24I travel quite a bit and I've seen Indian and Pakistani communities living in peace together
31:31abroad when they're fully aware that the countries may be in military conflict and Pakistan
31:36has done cross-border.
31:37Sir, perhaps they are not directly in the fire like Indians are in Pahalgam and in Mumbai,
31:42the city you live in.
31:44200 massacred in 2006, 257 killed in 1993, 166 massacred during 26-11.
31:51Dr. Tharakarta, is this something that we really need to, you know, move against?
31:57Does the civil society engagement help, madam, in bringing peace in your appreciation?
32:02Cricket, hockey, films?
32:06No.
32:06I believe confidence-building measures should never be abdicated.
32:10Can I just finish what I'm saying?
32:12At this point of time, when Apsindur is still on, how am I going to explain to my soldiers
32:17that they may get into another fight, they may get killed, but you know what?
32:22It's okay to play hockey and the rest of it.
32:24At this point of time, no.
32:26And what Abhijit, the earliest speaker said, this is all, Abhijit, sorry, this is about monetizing.
32:34There's a lot of money in cricket.
32:36There's a lot of money in films.
32:38Sorry, it can't be done.
32:40How, what is a soldier on the border going to think about this?
32:44But, however, I still say there are channels in Pakistan.
32:49By the way, that person you mentioned is, people hate him in Pakistan also.
32:54They said, some of the things he said were shameful.
32:57You need to dominate the narrative.
32:59You can't go on banning things.
33:02It's, it's not, that's not the way you, you have to get into the information space.
33:07So, yeah, but how do you dominate a narrative when that narrative is,
33:11Kafiro ko maro.
33:13Ye kafir hai, himko mar dalo.
33:15You know, that's the narrative that comes from that country based on religion.
33:20Abhijit, you want to come in and so does Sushant.
33:22My simple point is, you know, we come from a country where you had Bhama Shah,
33:28who gave his entire wealth to Maharana Pratap to fight the Mughals.
33:33He said, desh rahega, to paisa bhi hajaega.
33:37Fight, Maharana, fight.
33:38But you have BCCI that wants to mint money and doesn't want to get out of an international competition.
33:44Am I, am I, is, is my understanding flawed, Abhijit?
33:47It is 100% accurate, Gaurav.
33:50And let me tell you, these people-to-people contacts are another big money-spinning machine.
33:56All they do is take taxpayer money, either the UK taxpayer or the American taxpayer or the Indian taxpayer.
34:02And the only thing I've seen for the first day that happens at these Track 2 events
34:05is they sit and compare frequent flyer miles on Star Alliance and One World,
34:10who got a business class upgrade and who did not,
34:12who got upgraded to a suite and who did not.
34:15There is massive money to be made in all these Track 2 tamashas.
34:19And what do they do?
34:20They come to Delhi and sing God knows what.
34:23I mean, half that nuance is lost on 99% of this country.
34:26But we have to sit and endure it in the name of peace.
34:29We go there and we put up whatever vahiyat dancing or singing or whatever,
34:33some self-referential nonsense that keeps happening out there.
34:37Actual, did we end the insurgency with all this Track 2?
34:40Today the insurgency is over.
34:42There is terrorism, which always happens.
34:44In fact, at the end of an insurgency, terrorism will peak.
34:47Remember, Beyant Singh, the Chief Minister of Punjab,
34:50was killed in a bomb after the insurgency had ended.
34:54Tail-end insurgencies will always see terrorism.
34:56This people-to-people contact is the biggest overrated nonsense.
35:01They use it to infiltrate us.
35:02They use it to create sympathy.
35:04They use it to create, you know, fifth columns and things like that.
35:08It is the last thing we need.
35:09We will lose absolutely nothing.
35:11Okay.
35:12Suresh Gupta Ji,
35:14Bollywood के एक तपके को ये क्या प्यार है पाकिस्तान से?
35:18क्या भारत में अच्छे गायक नहीं है, क्या भारत में अच्छे अक्टर, अक्टरिसेज नहीं है, क्यूं इनको पाकिस्तान का मेरी दृष्टी में गंद चाहिए हमारे देश में?
35:28क्या पाकिस्तान के खिलाफ है, हर जगा, हर कंटरी में कोई ना कोई विरोध करने मुठी भर लोग होते हैं, लेकिन वो भूल जाते हैं कि हजारों की दादर में उस शहीद हुए भारत में जवान, उनके परिवार क्या सोस्ते होंगे उनको देखकर, क्यों आज वो क्रिके�
35:58आप तो बस पैसे के लिए सब कुछ कर रहे हो, लेकिन कभी देश भक्तिक को जब मौका आए, तभी स्टैंट तो लो, आज पुल्वामा किया 2019 में, आज 24 में पहलगाम किया, तीन साल बाद फिर बड़ा आतमवादी हमला करेगा, पाकिस्तान थो नो उखने वाला है, आज म
36:28करें पाकिस्तान का कोई भी आज भी मार देगा, बड़ी बाद आपके, तो यह ड़ कहीं ना कहीं खतम नहीं होगा, तो भारत सरकार को और हमें भी एक भारते होने के नाथे हमें भी स्टैंड लेने की जरौत है, दोशुक के आसपात बीना करें
36:39a government-led approach, Sushant Sareen, all the people.
36:54You're absolutely right.
37:01Because Bharat's population is a government-led approach.
37:09A government-led approach or a people-led approach or both?
37:13I think it has to be both.
37:14But I think it's also important, you know, we keep throwing these shibboleths people to people.
37:20I think it's the biggest nonsense.
37:22And I'll give you evidence for it.
37:24One, I keep asking everybody in government, including from the Ministry of External Affairs,
37:30please tell me, give me an audit of this people-to-people approach which you have followed for over 30-40 years.
37:37You've had hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis coming out here.
37:41Have you created a constituency for peace in Pakistan?
37:44No, none, nothing, zilch, zero, zip, okay?
37:48Second, between 2004 and 2008, a period all of us remember very well,
37:55when a lot of people-to-people was happening.
37:57There was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing, cultural exchanges, you know, lawyers going, judges coming,
38:04businessmen going, all kinds of things happening.
38:06Gaurav, there were 17 major terror attacks in India, including the Mumbai train bombings,
38:13including many of them.
38:15But I can count.
38:16I have a list of all those 17.
38:18Yes.
38:18Right?
38:19That was also...
38:20Virtually all on ground.
38:21It was also the time that Raveri Bazaar bombing happened in Bombay.
38:24Yes.
38:25In Sanitar city.
38:26Right?
38:26All sorts of things were happening.
38:28And yet, we were talking about people-to-people.
38:31This is the biggest fraud which is pulled on us.
38:34And people like Diljeet, Dosanj and others who, you know, will try and do virtue signaling.
38:40Music has no boundaries.
38:41Music has boundaries, damn it.
38:43Music has boundaries.
38:45Just because somebody else listens to your music does not mean they are in love with you.
38:48They are in love with you because they think that you are somebody who will be anti-India.
38:55You will be probably some kind of a closet Khalistani.
38:57I am not saying it.
38:58That is their sense.
39:00So, people from Punjab particularly need to be extremely careful when they talk about
39:06this Punjab-Panjab linkages, Punjabi language and all of that.
39:10Our Punjabi language is completely different from their Punjabi language now.
39:14In fact, now they are shifting entirely to Urdu and very little Punjabi on the other side.
39:20Ashutosh, you wanted to come in and respond to Sushant Sarin.
39:24I am not here to respond to what Sushant Sarin is saying.
39:29But my basic question is, before putting blame on these film stars and film actors and cricketers,
39:36let's government of India come out with a total breakdown with the relationship with the Pakistan.
39:43We are still continuing, we are still having a diplomatic relationship with the Pakistan.
39:48We have only downgraded our relationship.
39:50Now, the issue is, why so much love for the Pakistan by the Modi government?
39:54When they are killing our people on a daily basis, let's break diplomatic relations.
39:58Let's have no diplomatic communication with the Pakistan.
40:01But we are still continuing with that.
40:02So, there is a lot of hypocrisy around this.
40:05The people on your channel will come and say all kinds of things.
40:07But they should tell to the government that you break a relationship with the Pakistan
40:11because Pakistan is not going to listen to you.
40:15They will keep coming, they will keep killing innocent Indians.
40:18Okay, Dr. Tarakarta, you want to quickly respond.
40:20The relationship downgraded but remains.
40:23Or should we always have at least some basic level of contact,
40:27you know, door downgraded so that you know what's happening on the other side of the hill?
40:31Where do you stand on this?
40:32A government-led approach that government should say,
40:34no cricket with Pakistan, not just bilateral but even multilateral.
40:39Because if we have the diplomatic heft and we have the financial heft,
40:42our effort should be ban Pakistan from ICC.
40:46If we cannot, we should just opt out and have our own league.
40:49Our IPL does so well, Pakistan out of it.
40:52Is Pakistan's loss?
40:53No, that I 100% agree.
40:57I mean, you just had Defence Minister Rajanath Singh refusing to sign a document at SCO,
41:02at the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation because of Palkam.
41:06That is the level at which we are taking this.
41:08This music has no boundaries and all.
41:10I don't believe it.
41:11You have enough Indian actresses, you can use those.
41:15You cannot have this two-phase policy.
41:17I don't think it is honourable to our soldiers to say that,
41:21you know, oh, we will have cricket and how...
41:23I mean, it's the morale of our soldiers on the ground.
41:27As the previous gentleman said, it's completely unacceptable.
41:30Okay, you agree, Sanjay Jha?
41:33Okay, go on, ma'am.
41:33Complete your point and continue, Sanjay Jha.
41:35Give me 30 seconds.
41:37Give me 30 seconds.
41:38Tara Karthal is just completing a point.
41:39Go on, ma'am.
41:40See, even during the height of the Russian and Soviet Cold War,
41:45there were always talks.
41:47It was open because you want to avoid danger.
41:50Which is why the question, why the embassies are kept open is purely for that and nothing else.
41:55Okay.
41:55Sanjay Jha, is Aman Ki Aasha truly a way to lull India into complacency
42:00before that next major terror attack
42:03and that so-called golden era of relationship between India and Pakistan
42:07that some commentators speak of in Dr. Manmohan Singh's era, 2004 to 2007,
42:13where there was this four-point formula,
42:15we'll sort out Kashmir, demilitarize Sayachin.
42:18Pakistan was actually misleading us.
42:20They wanted us to demilitarize Sayachin when we did.
42:23While there were these terror attacks happening, including 2006,
42:26they were preparing for 26-11, sir.
42:29Gaurav, let me tell you, we have focused a lot on cinema, rock stars and cricket stars.
42:34But what is the elephant in the room?
42:36The information war is done by governments.
42:40And if you look at both the SCO as well as the Quad release,
42:45they mentioned Pahl Gham terror attack, but they excluded Pakistan.
42:49So that has been the diplomatic failure of the government,
42:52which basically makes Pakistan triumphant
42:55and India look weak and absolutely compromised.
42:58That we all know that, yes, Pakistan sponsors terrorism,
43:02including Pahl Gham,
43:03but the Indian government has not been capable of influencing
43:07even its own allies in the international forum.
43:09And that is what should be the core worry for all of us as citizens of our country.
43:13Sushant Sareen, India's efforts,
43:17do they lack that effort?
43:18Government of India, Ministry of External Affairs,
43:21NSA-level dialogue, EAM-level dialogue, PM-level dialogues and all of that.
43:26You know, have we failed to isolate Pakistan?
43:29You know, whether you talk about international fora or cricket or films,
43:34do we still see some hope one day Pakistan will reform,
43:37one day we'll have good relations?
43:41Gaurav, if you are realistic, there is no such hope.
43:45You know, people like me have harbored these hopes
43:47and we've seen our hopes shattered, so I don't have any such hope.
43:50But on your question,
43:52look, yes, I think some of our diplomatic campaigns
43:56could have been done much better, need to be done much better.
43:59We should learn from some of the setbacks that we've had
44:03in terms of how to engage with the international community,
44:06how to start setting our narrative,
44:08how to ensure that whatever information we are putting out
44:13is credible, is compelling and is relatable to other people.
44:18So I think there has been definitely a lapse in that
44:23and anybody who denies it is not doing any service to this country.
44:27So yes, on the strategic communications field,
44:30we need to do a lot.
44:31But I'll just add two very, very quick points.
44:34One, listen, even the worst enemies in the world
44:37keep diplomatic relations.
44:39If they don't have direct diplomatic relations,
44:42they hold an interest section in a third embassy
44:45in a particular country,
44:47so that they have some kind of lines of communication open.
44:50Now, it is very cavalier of people like Ashutosh,
44:53who probably don't understand how these things work,
44:56to simply pronounce that, ban everything, banish everything.
45:00If he wants to do that, sure, by all means do it.
45:03But that's a very puerile way of handling these things.
45:06Thirdly, and this is the last point I wanted to make.
45:08Look, you know, people need to be very careful
45:11that when an enemy is paying you compliments,
45:15he thinks you are a useful idiot.
45:17So when people from, especially from the Indian Punjab,
45:20because they think that there is a certain restiveness in Punjab,
45:23the moment they start lauding somebody from the Sikh community,
45:27they will be able to seduce them,
45:29they will be able to attract them,
45:31they will be able to use them against India.
45:34This is what most of these people
45:36who are claimed to be artists and very successful artists
45:39simply do not understand.
45:41Sir, I have 30 seconds since you named Ashutosh.
45:43I have to get him to respond.
45:44Ashutosh, quickly respond, sir.
45:45See, Gaurav, I am really amused to listen to these kinds of words.
45:52You know what is the state of India's foreign policy?
45:55Which word are you?
45:56We are thrown out from the Maldives.
45:59We are nowhere in Bangladesh.
46:01And the two biggest countries of the world,
46:02China, is openly supporting Pakistan.
46:05And America, Donald Trump,
46:07the great friend of Mr. Narendra Modi,
46:09says that Mr. Aseem Munir is a great person.
46:13I love him.
46:14And also one of the generals says
46:16that Pakistan is a phenomenal...
46:19I do not.
46:21Mr. Mithra Sushant, Sareen, be civil.
46:23Be civil.
46:23You are so ignorant.
46:24And one of the generals...
46:25One of the American generals...
46:29One of the American generals
46:30has got the guts to say
46:32Pakistan is a phenomenal partner
46:34in anti-terrorism programs.
46:37Now, this is India's foreign policy.
46:39What is India's foreign policy?
46:40I just want to know.
46:41Has India's foreign policy...
46:42Does this show weakness
46:44or problems in India's foreign policy?
46:46Last 30 seconds, ma'am.
46:48See, these...
46:49There is no doubt
46:50that we could have done a better job
46:52in sustaining the terrorism...
46:54You know, the whole terrorism dialogue.
46:56We did drop the ball
46:57a couple of years earlier.
46:59You know, you shifted to...
47:00Entirely to China.
47:01You were looking just at that.
47:02And you thought Pakistan was...
47:04You just ignored Pakistan.
47:06Now, that's easy for us
47:07to say as desk warriors.
47:09But I know that given
47:10the limited resources
47:11which you have,
47:13that's about all you can do.
47:14But we need to pull this up.
47:16We need to pull up
47:17the narrative from everywhere.
47:19Not just diplomacy.
47:21You need to see this
47:22in universities everywhere.
47:23It has to be the whole
47:25of the nation approach.
47:25I will let that be the last word
47:27on this part of the show.
47:28I've just absolutely
47:29run out of time.
47:30But do keep one thing in mind.
47:32India is at war
47:34with Pakistan.
47:36And in this war,
47:37every Indian
47:38has to be that warrior.
47:40Lend your shoulder
47:40to the wheel.
47:41This is the time
47:42we need our Bhama Shahs.
47:44We need our Maharana Prataps
47:45to fight the Bugals
47:47or what was happening
47:49at that point of time.
47:50Because remember,
47:51Pakistanis think
47:51it is the Kafirs
47:53they are fighting.
47:55On India first,
47:56now I bring you
47:57an exclusive report
47:57from the India-Myanmar
47:59border at Moreh
48:00where there's a massive
48:01fencing drive underway.
48:03The project aims to
48:04fortify 1,643 kilometers
48:06of that border.
48:08Manjeet Nagy
48:08on Ground Zero
48:09with this report.
48:16Massive fencing is on
48:17along the India-Myanmar
48:19border to curb
48:21Rohingya infiltration.
48:23The Narendra Modi government
48:24aims to secure
48:25the entire 1,643 kilometer
48:28long border
48:29which stretches
48:30from Arunachal Pradesh
48:32to Mizoram.
48:33Out of which,
48:34about 401 kilometers
48:36are already completed.
48:38India today reached
48:39the strategic
48:40Moreh border
48:41in Manipur
48:42where a 9.2 kilometer
48:44stretch of fencing
48:45is over.
48:47People on both sides
48:48are lauding the project.
48:50The Narendra Modi
49:20The Assam Rifles is braving dense jungles and difficult terrain to secure the frontier.
49:39In the last six months alone, they neutralized over 11 militants and seized narcotics worth
49:46crores.
49:47The Assam Rifles, which are on the Indo-Mainmar border, are required to stop all the drugs and drugs to keep them.
49:59With this, our cities, which are our community, we are one of those who receive the support of the state government and the state administration.
50:15So that we become an important partner in this entire country, for development and for peace.
50:26Fencing aims to block Rohingya intrusion, curb intrusion of insurgents and intruders and check cross-border smuggling.
50:34We are in Friendship Gate in More, Manipur.
50:39Fencing work is underway aimed to preventing infiltration and smuggling.
50:44The Assam Rifle is working to address concern raised by the local communities and organization,
50:49ensuring that the fencing is seen as a measure to enhance security, not divide the people.
50:57Last year, Home Minister Amit Shah had emphasized the project is a must to ensure security,
51:03blaming cross-border insurgency for the Manipur violence.
51:06With fencing underway on a war footing, India's new wall against insurgents,
51:12sends out a clear message to adversaries who look to fuel tensions.
51:31We are showing you the high-tech fencing in the Indo-Mainmar border.
51:47The influx of Rohingya's refugees and drug trafficking from the Myanmar into India has been an issue of grave concern.
51:55It is thus important to fence and keep the India-Mainmar border secure from the infiltrator and that is a huge challenge.
52:02Assam Rifle personnel work tirelessly to secure the border conducting day and night patrol.
Recommended
1:02
|
Up next