00:00Good timing. Thank you. I want to follow up on the line of questioning that it was had for Mr.
00:07Beauvais since you were present for that and ask you all the same question and Judge Artel,
00:14I'll start with you. Would it ever be appropriate for the Justice Department to take the position
00:19that they should effectively tell a district court to pound sand and ignore a court order?
00:27Well, I just think that there are exceptions, as I indicated before. There's stays that can be
00:42pursued. There's motions for rehearing appeals. Yeah, that's not my question. Would it ever be
00:49appropriate for the Justice Department to tell the court, we're going to ignore your order?
00:53I mean, Abraham Lincoln did that with the Dred Scott case.
01:00I'm hoping we're not going to go back to the Civil War, Dred Scott.
01:06You seem to be having some hesitancy about this question. Would you have difficulty
01:11if the government ignored your order in holding them in contempt?
01:16Senator, I would not have any difficulty enforcing any court order that I enter. Obviously, if I enter
01:27a court order, I would expect it to be followed, no matter who the party is.
01:31Including by the Justice Department under the Trump administration?
01:35Including the government as well, yes.
01:38Okay. And Mr. Dudik, same question.
01:47I would expect the parties in a case before me to follow the order, regardless of who they are.
01:52Okay. Same question.
01:55Yes, Senator. I, too, would expect orders to be followed.
01:58And, you know, of course, if I suspected that there were a problem or an issue with that,
02:04there is a process for ascertaining whether a court order has not been followed,
02:08and I would follow that process.
02:10And that process involves an order to show cause, why they shouldn't be held in contempt,
02:15and there are judges holding those hearings contemporaneous with this one.
02:20Let's say you hold that hearing, and you find that the Justice Department has been in willful contempt,
02:27knowing in willful contempt.
02:29What kind of sanctions would you entertain under those circumstances?
02:35Senator, it's hard to answer in the abstract.
02:37I know that there are a host of sanctions that can be entered on a finding of contempt.
02:41I would not hesitate to enter an appropriate sanction, whatever the case would require.
02:45I'd have to, you know, look at the particular kind of matter of the severity and extent of the violation of the court order,
02:52and those would all be things that would be considered in such a hearing.
02:56But what I can say just as a general matter is I would expect that any lawful order that I issue
03:01with jurisdiction over the case in the parties should be followed unless or until stayed or reversed or disturbed otherwise on appeal.
03:08Well, and building on that answer, Ms. Gaylord-Mo, let's say that the contempt involved rendering someone out of the country
03:18to a maximum security prison in violation of their right to be heard, in violation of habeas corpus.
03:26What kind of sanction would you order if you found after a hearing and an order to show cause
03:34that the government was willfully in contempt?
03:36Senator, I'm obviously not going to comment on any pending cases, and I'm not going to weigh in on political controversies.
03:44I can tell you that the answer to your question is, do I expect the parties in a case that's pending in front of me
03:49to comply with my orders?
03:50And the answer is yes.
03:53And you would expect that, notwithstanding the fact that they may choose to appeal or choose to disagree with your order.
04:00In the absence of a higher court judgment that stays your order, you would expect, and you would indeed compel the government to comply, would you not?
04:10As a judge, I follow the law and I expect the parties to do the same.
04:14Okay, that doesn't really answer my question.
04:17So in the absence of an appeal from your order, in the absence of a stay of your judgment,
04:22if the government refuses your order, would you hold them in contempt?
04:29If the elements that would make contempt appropriate under the law were met,
04:34and I held a hearing that I felt satisfied that at the conclusion the law compelled the entry of contempt sanctions,
04:40then absolutely I would do that.
04:43I yield back.
04:44Thank you, Senator Schiff, and thank you so much for our nominees, for being here with us today.
04:51I know people traveled far and wide to join you.
04:54That means they support you and wish all the best in your future careers.
04:59Certainly, it is an honor for me.
05:00I often take over this gavel from the chair and serve as a...
