- today
On Thursday June 26th, Phil Smith was joined by BBC Radio Newcastle's Sunderland commentator Nick Barnes for the first ever live episode of On The Whistle.
We're delighted to be able to bring you some of the highlights of the show as the pair discuss Sunderland's promotion, Régis Le Bris, the imminent arrival of Florent Ghisolfi, the summer transfer window and more.
Sound, visual and editing: Anthony Chapman
We're delighted to be able to bring you some of the highlights of the show as the pair discuss Sunderland's promotion, Régis Le Bris, the imminent arrival of Florent Ghisolfi, the summer transfer window and more.
Sound, visual and editing: Anthony Chapman
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SportsTranscript
00:00Nick, how good did it feel today to see the Championship, League One fixtures, Carabao
00:09Cup first round draw?
00:10Well, I've actually got, I've just said to you two minutes ago, I actually haven't looked
00:14yet.
00:16And I know if I looked, I'd see places like Wrexham and Birmingham and sort of go a bit
00:21of a cold sweat about, thank God we've avoided going to those places because St Andrews,
00:27as you know, is one of the worst grounds to visit.
00:32Wrexham, I haven't been for a few years, but it wasn't one of the best.
00:35And I know they've done a lot of work since, but suddenly, yeah, I'm going to have to go
00:39back tomorrow and have a look and just go, just peruse League One as well, because that
00:44seems like a long time ago now.
00:46I've absolutely nothing against Blackburn Rovers, lovely club, lovely people, but I feel like
00:50I've spent half my life there over the last few years.
00:53It's a huge relief to look down at Sunderland's fixtures and not see Wood Park.
00:56I completely sympathise and empathise on that one.
00:59But also the whole thought of the, look, we may be going back there in a year's time,
01:05but, you know, 46 games and the League Cup first round and all that goes with it, we can
01:10just push that to one side for a year, maybe more.
01:14So let's just embrace the moment.
01:17So I think we're going to spend, certainly a lot of the questions that you've sent in,
01:20we're going to spend a lot of tonight looking forward to next season.
01:23The exciting but also slightly terrifying prospect of Sunderland back in the Premier League.
01:28But I think we've all followed Sunderland enough to know that when you get a good day,
01:32you have to milk every last drop out of it.
01:35So I thought we'd start by reflecting on the playoffs a little bit, because, you know,
01:41hopefully we'll come back and do these and we'll be talking about famous nights in Europe,
01:45Cup wins, Champions League nights, all of that.
01:47But I think the way it unfolded, those three games after the journey we'd been on for eight years,
01:54it really does feel like we've witnessed a generational moment.
01:57I mean, it was just unbelievable.
01:59I mean, talk a little bit through how it was for you.
02:01Yes, yes, it was.
02:01Before we do that, can I just say that I thought today that Phil would never come down
02:06in a red and white Sunderland top for this.
02:08So I thought, I'm not going to put a Sunderland shirt on, because Phil won't.
02:11I walk in and Phil's walked in in a Sunderland top.
02:13So I apologise for my tardy T-shirt,
02:18and I'm admiring your T-shirt in the corner with the three Sunderland shirts on.
02:22Where'd you get that?
02:25Yes, going back to the three games.
02:29Funnily enough, I got a funny feeling at the start of the season,
02:32this could be a significant season,
02:35because I think, firstly, the appointment of Regis Lebris was so off the wall.
02:41And, you know, when we first sort of started talking to him, meeting him,
02:47he was very personable.
02:48His English was pretty good.
02:50But he was never going to be someone who was going to be,
02:52he was going to sit down with us for hours after press conferences and chat.
02:56But it was fine.
02:58There was an air about him.
02:59There was an air about pre-season.
03:02And then the season started so well.
03:05There's a strange, strange story.
03:07When the first game of the season, Cardiff City away,
03:11we tried to book, Ben and I, hotels in Cardiff.
03:14We couldn't get a hotel for love nor money in Cardiff
03:17because Billy Joel was playing in Cardiff on the Friday night.
03:21So by luck, I sort of found Celtic Manor thinking
03:25that would be way, way out of the BBC's policy.
03:29There would be no way we can afford to stay at Celtic Manor.
03:31But as it turned out, it said within policy.
03:34So I booked Celtic Manor.
03:36Thought nothing more of it.
03:37We arrived at Celtic Manor, pulled up this massive hotel, golf course.
03:42You know, I'm thinking this is way out of our league.
03:44I'd just like to point out at this point I was in the travel lodge.
03:46Yes.
03:47And so we arrived and walked into reception.
03:52And the girl behind reception said, well, you've been upgraded.
03:54And I said, are you sure?
03:56There must be some, surely there's some mistake.
03:58Turns out we've been allocated the presidential suite.
04:01At Celtic Manor for the first game of the season.
04:04So I just had this uncanny with hindsight feeling
04:07that this was always going to be a season
04:09that was going to be something slightly different, slightly special.
04:12And I think with the start that they made
04:15and as the season went on,
04:18there was very clearly identifiable team spirit
04:22within the players within this group
04:24who are very, very, they're very committed.
04:27They're very together.
04:29And there was a sense that they were going to achieve something.
04:33And then they basically found themselves fourth in the table.
04:37And that was an immovable object.
04:39You know, they weren't ever going to go down a place.
04:42They weren't ever going to go up a place.
04:43They were going to finish the season fourth, come what may.
04:46And then those three playoff games were just,
04:52was a fairy tale.
04:53I mean, you couldn't make that up.
04:55And it's rare.
04:56In all the years I've commentated at three different clubs,
05:01I've only once experienced this sort of team spirit.
05:04And that undefinable, it's intangible in so many ways,
05:09but you do get a feeling when a season's going to be a good season.
05:12And I actually felt that this season was going to be something special.
05:15I mean, that's not what you were saying in the tunnel at Oxford.
05:19No, but then, you know, there were moments.
05:21There were moments.
05:22I think everybody had a profound wobble at that point, didn't they?
05:26It's really interesting what you hit on there.
05:29And I think there's the obvious reason that that playoff campaign was so special
05:33was because we went through that thing of all these things never happen to Sunderland.
05:39And the opposition right-back never passes it straight to our striker.
05:42Our centre-half never scores in the 122nd minute.
05:46The opposition striker never passes it straight to our winger who's about to leave,
05:49who puts it in the bottom corner.
05:51But I do think what's really interesting was you mentioned it there.
05:55The players, I think it was really obvious to us
05:58because we have obviously had times when you've sensed that it was a squad
06:03that necessarily wasn't together, wasn't fully bought into it.
06:06the extent to which these players had totally bought into this story
06:10of putting Sunderland back where it belongs.
06:13And that went all the way through from the local lads, Dan Neal, Anthony Patterson,
06:19the likes of Joe Bellingham, who I think, you know,
06:21despite the fact that he left fairly shortly afterwards,
06:23I think everyone could see how much he'd invested in this story.
06:26Even people like Enzo Le Fay came in in January playing out of position,
06:29the work he put in.
06:30And I think it really, that was something quite special that we witnessed,
06:34wasn't it?
06:35A team that didn't always, if we're honest, play incredible football.
06:38Sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't.
06:39But they were totally together.
06:41It was quite a rare magic.
06:44Le Brice deserves some credit for that.
06:45But I think partially what they'd been through the previous season
06:47maybe brought them together as well.
06:49There was a lot of determination.
06:50Yes, and I think this group of players,
06:54and I think you can take Job as an example.
06:57I think we pretty much guessed,
06:59we knew at the beginning of the season
07:00that it would be his last season.
07:01I think it was always written in the stars
07:04that his parents would move him on after this season.
07:08I think at the back of our minds we always knew
07:10that was probably going to happen.
07:11But I think this is a group of players
07:13that in 25 years' time will still be together.
07:15They'll still have reunions
07:16and they'll still get together as players
07:19to celebrate something that was very, very special.
07:23There's a little bit of it with Ahmad as well.
07:25You know, Ahmad's gone on back to Manchester United
07:28and proved to be a success there, but comes back.
07:33So there's something that draws players back to the club
07:36and you can go back over seasons.
07:39I mean, I've seen interviews with the likes of Lorik Sarna
07:42and Bolo Zenden and players like that
07:44who've all got this incredible soft spot for Sunderland.
07:48And bear in mind, someone like Lorik Sarna
07:49was only here a season,
07:51but still got this incredible sort of attachment
07:54to the football club.
07:56So I think this group, they're fairly unique.
07:59They are very driven.
08:02I'm going to pull one name out of the hat
08:04as someone who's incredibly driven.
08:06It's Trey Hulme.
08:07Where his journey has taken him from
08:09in the last couple of years is remarkable.
08:10And he, I think, he's the embodiment, if you like.
08:15He epitomises that drive that all the players
08:19have shown this season to achieve something.
08:21They said right at the start of the season,
08:23our ambition was to get promoted.
08:25They've never wavered from that.
08:27Whatever's happened, whatever the results have been,
08:29that last five-game run at the end of the season,
08:32they've never allowed the outside noise to get to them.
08:35And I think it's quite interesting
08:36because I think they learned quite a lot
08:38from when Alex Neal was here
08:40and he basically shut out everything
08:43outside the football club.
08:44He said, we've got a job to do,
08:46however many games it were,
08:48and we've got to live in that vacuum.
08:51We've got to live in that bubble
08:52and believe that we can achieve
08:54what they achieved that season
08:56to win at Wembley against Wickham.
08:58And I get a feeling that, you know,
08:59the players that were there then,
09:01and there were quite a few, you know,
09:03who've come through that,
09:04have drawn on that experience.
09:06And we're using that this season
09:09when the noise started to get, you know,
09:11it wasn't great the last month or two of the season.
09:14That's an understatement.
09:15Yeah, and I think, you know,
09:17to see what they then achieved,
09:19because Reggie Slabris steadfastly refused
09:22to be sucked into saying
09:25that you couldn't flick a switch
09:26and the form would come back
09:28because everyone is adamant
09:30you just cannot suddenly find form.
09:33You can't flick a switch and find form.
09:34And all the while, he always said,
09:37yes, we can.
09:38We can do it.
09:39And the players backed him up on it.
09:42And tremendous credit to him
09:44for sticking to his guns.
09:45Shall we just take a moment
09:46to think about Trahune's tackle?
09:48Yes.
09:51There's a video.
09:52There's a video of Chris Wilder
09:54on the touchline from a certain angle.
09:57It looks like he's applauding the tackle.
10:00And I'm not 100% convinced
10:03that's what he was doing.
10:04I think it was a bit of an ironic hand clap
10:08from Chris Wilder.
10:09But I like to believe
10:10that he was applauding Trahune
10:12for basically getting the ball
10:14and wiping out Brereton Diaz
10:16in one split second.
10:19It's interesting
10:20because I'm naturally
10:21very, very pessimistic.
10:23Always think the worst is going to happen.
10:25Which, to be fair,
10:27like all of us,
10:28I've got good reason to think that
10:29from following Sland over the years.
10:30But I think that was the moment
10:32where you just sensed
10:34the switch had been flicked
10:35in that final.
10:36And what I think is huge credit
10:38to the players
10:38and LeBris about that
10:40is we talked so much
10:41in the season
10:42about points that they dropped
10:43at the end of games,
10:44finishing games poorly.
10:46In the playoffs,
10:47every single game
10:48they finished the stronger team.
10:50And even though Sheffield United
10:51were bringing off players,
10:53millions of pounds,
10:54players with a lot
10:54of Premier League appearances,
10:56I thought Sland were
10:56completely on top.
10:57And I think that sums up
10:59everything that LeBris did
11:00right at the end of the season
11:02in terms of his capacity
11:03to learn from what had gone wrong
11:05earlier in the season.
11:06I've got a question here
11:07I'm going to throw it
11:08to you first, Nick,
11:09from Bill,
11:10who says,
11:11I was worried before the playoffs
11:12that this team would break up
11:13if we didn't win.
11:15Do you think that
11:16come the end of the window
11:17the team will look
11:18radically different
11:19to the one that won at Wembley?
11:23Brutally, yes.
11:24I think it will be different.
11:27I think you can't shy away
11:30from the fact
11:30that the team finished fourth
11:31in the championship
11:32a long, long way off.
11:33The teams that finished
11:35in the automatic places.
11:40And on the evidence of...
11:44I know you slightly sort of...
11:47Going back to that Newcastle game,
11:49the games against Fulham,
11:50but when those teams
11:51played their first teams,
11:53Sunderland were...
11:54They struggled big time
11:56against Premier League teams.
11:58So the rebuilding they need to do
12:00to compete,
12:01even with the lower half
12:03Premier League teams
12:05who are now becoming...
12:06You know,
12:06the Bournemouths and Brentfords
12:07of this world,
12:08Brightons and so on.
12:10They are suddenly becoming...
12:11They're on another level now.
12:13They've taken it...
12:14You know,
12:14every season,
12:15the Premier League's getting stronger.
12:17In lots of ways,
12:19it's quite frightening.
12:20I mean,
12:20the fact that three clubs,
12:21Ipswich,
12:22Leicester and Southampton,
12:23all went up,
12:24all spent lots of money,
12:25and it all comes
12:26straight back down again,
12:27is slightly alarming.
12:31So the club,
12:32I think they have to be brutal.
12:34They have to bring in players
12:37that they know can compete
12:38or potentially compete
12:40at this level.
12:41And they also know
12:42they've got a very short window
12:44in which to bring in these players
12:46and get them together as a team,
12:48to play as a team
12:50with the spirit
12:50that this team has shown
12:51over the last two or three years.
12:53It's a huge ask.
12:55I'm bizarrely fairly optimistic.
12:58I've sort of got a lot of trust
13:01in Regis LeBris
13:03and the way that he works
13:04and the way that the club works
13:05and the way that I think
13:06they will look at what happened
13:08to Ipswich and Leicester
13:09and Southampton
13:09and look at the way that they play,
13:12look at their strengths,
13:13look at their weaknesses.
13:15But the team that finished
13:17at Wembley
13:18against Sheffield United
13:19cannot be the same team
13:20that starts in the Premier League.
13:22I think it's interesting
13:23looking at what happened
13:24when we got promoted
13:25from League One
13:26in the Championship
13:27when we saw
13:27that they were fairly ruthless,
13:30especially the summer after
13:32when a lot of players left
13:33who played a big part
13:34in getting us into the playoffs.
13:35But I think, to be fair,
13:36a big part of this whole project
13:38and about this strategy
13:39was recruiting players
13:41who would step up
13:42to the Premier League.
13:44And I think that
13:45the vibe I get at the moment
13:47is that these players,
13:49even if it's in a squad basis,
13:50rather than necessarily being a starter,
13:51will get a big opportunity.
13:53And I think you can go through the team
13:54and there are a lot of players
13:55who I think some will back
13:56to make the step up.
13:57I think Trey Hulme's an obvious one,
13:58Dan Ballard's an obvious one,
14:00Dan Neal,
14:01I think if the contract situation
14:02gets sorted out,
14:03Rameen Mundell.
14:04I think people like Meander,
14:05you've so much progress
14:07in the space of a year
14:09that I think you've got to give
14:10the players these opportunities.
14:12And I think the other thing
14:13that I think is worth remembering
14:15is that Sunland are obviously
14:16in a really strong financial position
14:18this summer because of the money
14:19that you get from promotion,
14:21because of the way they've been ran
14:22over the last few years
14:23because of the Joe Bellingham sale.
14:25But it's not a limitless pot.
14:27And I think the way
14:28they're going to be looking at this
14:29is saying we have a core
14:31of very talented young players
14:33who we think we can step up again.
14:35We don't want to disrupt
14:36the team too much.
14:38I think that's a really important thing
14:39because I think something
14:39quite special has been built.
14:41For me, it's about adding
14:42four or five top players
14:44to that mix,
14:45players who can come in on day one.
14:47and immediately go
14:48straight into the starting XI.
14:50And then maybe there's
14:51one or two you add to the squad,
14:52a bit more experience,
14:53a bit more depth.
14:54But I think that the team
14:55is obviously going to look
14:56very different to the one
14:57that finished the season
15:00at Wembley.
15:00But I wouldn't be surprised
15:01if there was five or six
15:02still in that team.
15:02And we know they're going to do
15:04business on deadline day.
15:05Because you're right.
15:06I mean, Hume, Ballard,
15:08Sirkin, Mundell,
15:11there is a core of players
15:12who are clearly
15:13have earned the right
15:15and probably are good enough
15:16to have the issue
15:21to prove themselves.
15:23I think that the other side
15:24of it is that
15:25I think we've got to be
15:27conscious too
15:28of the fixture list
15:29as being incredibly
15:30kind to Sunderland.
15:33We'll see if you say that
15:34in September.
15:35I'm saying that in the sense
15:36that Ipswich last season
15:38had Manchester City first game.
15:39I think they had Liverpool
15:40second game and so on.
15:42They were thrown in.
15:44That was a baptism of fire.
15:46Sunderland had been given
15:47what on paper,
15:49as I say,
15:50because all these teams
15:51now are far, far away
15:52from where they were
15:53ten years ago.
15:54It's a fairly,
15:55it's a benign start
15:56to the season,
15:57if you like.
15:58They will feel,
16:00they will believe
16:01these are games
16:02they can get something from.
16:04If they don't,
16:05then I think you do,
16:07you have to worry.
16:08But I think if you can get
16:10something from these
16:10opening fixtures,
16:12then I think you can be
16:13in a position where you feel,
16:14do you know,
16:15I think they can pull this off.
16:17They can reach,
16:18look,
16:18they've got to finish
16:19fourth bottom.
16:19It doesn't matter,
16:20let's not start dreaming
16:21of finishing top six
16:22or anything.
16:22All you've got to do
16:23is stabilise,
16:25finish fourth bottom
16:26and you build from there.
16:28And I think on the basis
16:29of what,
16:30you know,
16:30Luton nearly pulled it off
16:32the other year.
16:33I mean,
16:33as brutal as their football
16:34might have been,
16:35they play to their strengths.
16:37If Sunderland play
16:37to their strengths
16:38with the players
16:39that they've got,
16:39the players they bring in,
16:41there's nothing I think
16:42to suggest they cannot
16:43just finish fourth bottom
16:45or maybe fifth bottom.
16:47But basically,
16:48they can avoid that.
16:50The problems that,
16:51you know,
16:52Southampton and Leicester
16:53embroiled themselves in
16:54playing out from the back,
16:55all this nonsense.
16:56and it just,
16:57it just,
16:58it was,
16:58you know,
16:59Ipswich,
17:00their problem was
17:01they tried to buy
17:01top-end championship players
17:03and not more established
17:05experience,
17:06Premier League
17:07or equivalent.
17:09Leicester and Southampton
17:10went down the road
17:11of just playing out
17:12from the back
17:13and trying to,
17:13you know,
17:14it just didn't work.
17:15You're going to get crucified
17:16if you do that.
17:17Sunderland's strength
17:18is counter-attack football.
17:19They've got to get
17:20their defence sorted.
17:21They've got to make sure
17:22they've got two,
17:23three solid centre-backs.
17:24We know they've got full-backs.
17:26Look,
17:26Niall Huggins is to come back in.
17:28I think he's an incredibly
17:28talented player
17:29and if he gets up to speed,
17:31that's one phenomenal talent.
17:33Trey Hulme,
17:34Dennis Sirkin.
17:36You know,
17:36the ability's there.
17:40It's,
17:40to me,
17:41it's these opening games
17:42of the season.
17:43I think they're,
17:44you know,
17:44they've been handed
17:45on the plate some,
17:46you know,
17:46this sort of gift,
17:47if you like,
17:48of a relatively kind
17:50opening couple of months
17:53to the season.
17:53And if they can get
17:54through that,
17:55then I think the belief
17:56will be that they can
17:57probably stay up.
17:59So we've got a question
18:00from Rob and Alan
18:01about Floron Gisolfi.
18:05I'm glad you're
18:05pronouncing it,
18:06not me.
18:06Pronunciation TBC.
18:09So a couple of people
18:11are asking about this.
18:12So Rob says,
18:13do you think the recruitment
18:14of Floron Gisolfi
18:15was aided by the purchase
18:17of Enzo Le Fay
18:18from Roma in January?
18:20And Alan says,
18:20could he be the most
18:22significant sign
18:23of the window?
18:23So I'm sure everyone's
18:25up to speed this,
18:25but obviously Floron Gisolfi
18:27was sporting director
18:28at Roma last year,
18:30previously at Nice
18:31and at Lons.
18:33We,
18:34I think it's a matter
18:35of when,
18:36not if.
18:37I think obviously
18:37when you bring in
18:38someone from abroad
18:39at the moment,
18:39there's a lot of admin
18:40that you have to go through.
18:41So I think that will be
18:42confirmed probably sooner
18:43rather than later.
18:45I mean,
18:45I think this is a real sign
18:47from the club
18:48that they're not here
18:48to make up the numbers
18:49because the work,
18:51the contact book
18:52that he's going to bring,
18:53the knowledge of the European markets,
18:55the fact that he's left Roma
18:56and had other opportunities.
18:57I think the fact that
18:58he's coming into Sunderland
18:59shows that there's a budget
19:01and there's an intent there
19:02next season,
19:03which I think is quite exciting.
19:04And I think we're already
19:05seeing with some of the names
19:06that have been linked,
19:07Denise goalkeeper,
19:08Marcin Bulker,
19:10the Roma left back Angeleno.
19:11Now obviously getting these deals done
19:13is a completely different kettle of fish.
19:15But I think it's a sign
19:16that Sunderland are serious
19:18about not making up
19:19the numbers next season.
19:20But of course,
19:22if you have a structure
19:23that's working well
19:23and you put a new figure into that,
19:25there's obviously an element
19:26of risk, isn't there?
19:27Because you just don't know
19:28how it's going to go.
19:29This whole director of football
19:31is an interesting one
19:32because when you speak to Regis
19:33about the Enzo Le Fay deal,
19:35it clearly came out from,
19:37if he's telling the truth,
19:39he tentatively sent Enzo a text
19:42saying, you know...
19:44How are you?
19:44How are you?
19:45Yeah, you know.
19:46So-so.
19:47Literally, that's how
19:48this deal came about
19:49and there was no involvement
19:50from, how do you pronounce his name?
19:53Gisolfi.
19:54There you go.
19:55He was not involved.
19:56Well, maybe.
19:57So that narrative,
20:00that's going to be
20:01quite an interesting...
20:02I mean, he's going to get asked
20:03about this obviously now
20:04when the season starts
20:06about how that all came about
20:07and, you know,
20:09because he knew
20:09Regis LeBris from Lorient
20:11previously.
20:11They've worked together.
20:13That's what I was going to say.
20:13Rob, I totally forgot
20:14to answer your question.
20:15Sorry.
20:16I think they knew
20:17he's very well known
20:17to LeBris before January.
20:19He was the youth coach
20:20at Lorient.
20:21So their relationship
20:23goes back a long way.
20:25They know each other
20:25really, really well,
20:26which tends to make you think
20:28that the Enzo Le Fay deal
20:29wasn't purely down
20:31to a couple of texts
20:32from Regis to Enzo.
20:34Do you fancy it?
20:36That sort of thing.
20:38But it's an interesting dynamic
20:40and I think
20:40there's a...
20:43You're sort of looking
20:44at a picture developing
20:45at the club
20:46with Kirill
20:47being French-Swiss,
20:50Regis French,
20:51Enzo French,
20:53the new director
20:54of football French,
20:56that he's building up...
20:58It's like a family, isn't it?
21:01He's leaning towards
21:02people he knows,
21:04people he respects,
21:06keeping it very in-house,
21:08if you like,
21:09in that respect.
21:11And look,
21:11I'm in no way belittling it
21:13because up until now
21:15it's worked.
21:15And it'll be
21:16a very interesting
21:17relationship now
21:17between the new director
21:19of football
21:20and Christian Speakman
21:21as the sporting director.
21:23Where are they
21:24drawing the lines
21:25about who does what
21:26in that relationship?
21:29Because until now,
21:30Christian Speakman
21:31has been very,
21:32very hands-on
21:32in terms of recruitment
21:34with Stuart Harvey
21:35and others.
21:38So now suddenly
21:39you've got another person
21:40in the mix
21:41who's very much
21:42clearly Kirill's person,
21:43Kirill's man.
21:45It's going to be
21:47a very,
21:47very interesting dynamic.
21:48But I think
21:49the way the Premier League
21:50has changed,
21:51probably it's needed.
21:54The whole structure
21:56of the club
21:56has got to be
21:57much more professional.
21:58It's got to be
21:58much more...
22:00Was it Brighton
22:02I was reading about
22:03now,
22:03or Brentford?
22:04Because we all know
22:05about the way
22:05that they recruit players
22:06that one of those clubs,
22:08I think it might be Brighton,
22:08and they're now going
22:09under the radar.
22:10Previously they were
22:11looking at 17-year-olds
22:12around the world.
22:13They're now looking
22:14at 15-year-olds
22:14because they know
22:16that other clubs
22:16aren't looking
22:17at 15-year-olds.
22:18They know that
22:18they can get a niche
22:20in the market
22:21by getting hold
22:22of 15-year-olds,
22:2314-year-olds.
22:24They're always trying
22:25to stay one step ahead
22:26of the other clubs
22:27in the league.
22:28But there comes a point
22:28where that 10% advantage
22:32that you've got
22:32is gone.
22:33So Sunderland,
22:34you can see why
22:35they're trying
22:36to professionalise
22:36the way they set up
22:38and bring in
22:39a director of football
22:41to spread the workload
22:42and so on.
22:44It is going to be interesting
22:45to see how that dynamic
22:46works and where they
22:48spread their net,
22:49if you like,
22:50in terms of the players
22:51that they're going
22:51to bring in.
22:52Shall we just have
22:53a moment to say
22:53cheers to Enzo Lafay,
22:55by the way?
22:55What a player.
22:56What a player.
23:01I think this is something
23:03that to a degree
23:04was inevitable
23:04and that had to happen
23:06because Sunderland
23:08have only been
23:08in the championship
23:09for three years.
23:11It's only four years ago
23:13before the new ownership
23:14came in where the club,
23:16because of how long
23:16it had been in League One,
23:17was a bit of a shell.
23:18And if you think about
23:19the sheer amount of work,
23:21the sheer amount
23:21of responsibilities
23:22that Christian Speakman has,
23:24not just in terms
23:25of recruitment,
23:25which is obviously
23:26the thing we inevitably
23:27focus on,
23:28but on contracts,
23:29on the academy,
23:30performance and medical.
23:31It's not something
23:32that at a Premier League level
23:33he can realistically,
23:34do on his own,
23:35is it?
23:36It's something
23:36that he needs support.
23:37But as you say,
23:38the interesting dynamic is
23:39it's not unusual in football.
23:41Brentford had two
23:42sporting directors
23:43for a long time.
23:44Chelsea have two
23:45sporting directors.
23:46The unusual thing
23:47about this is,
23:48is that you're bringing
23:49one in after one's
23:50been in charge
23:51for a number of years
23:52and you just don't know
23:53how that dynamic's
23:54going to go.
23:55We got a question
23:56here from Steve
23:57and I had a question
23:58from up there as well
23:59saying,
23:59are the rumours
24:00that KLD
24:01is looking to sell
24:02the club true?
24:03And I had a question
24:04up there asking
24:05if we think
24:06Kirill is in it
24:07for the long term
24:07or whether he would
24:08like to sell.
24:09Now,
24:10Kirill's a very,
24:11very secretive person
24:12so nobody could give you
24:13a definitive answer
24:14on this.
24:14My reading would be
24:16that I don't think
24:17Kirill would have
24:18any interest in selling
24:19in full at this point
24:20because I don't think
24:21the potential value
24:23of the club
24:24at this point
24:24is anywhere near
24:26being realised.
24:27But I think
24:27if there was
24:28investor or investors
24:30who were interested
24:31in taking the
24:32chunk of the club
24:33for some money
24:34I think you very much
24:35welcome that.
24:36What do you think?
24:38I think
24:39I would probably
24:40agree with you.
24:41I think
24:41over the last
24:43couple of years
24:44I mean,
24:46Kirill said
24:47he's not looking
24:48to sell
24:49but at the same time
24:50if the right offer
24:51came in
24:52he would be
24:53open to offers
24:54but my understanding
24:56of it was
24:57that he probably
24:57at that time
24:59overvalued the club
25:00but I think
25:03it's probably
25:05true of any owner
25:06if the right offer
25:07comes in
25:07they'll sell.
25:09But I think
25:09every decision
25:10to his credit
25:11as well I would say
25:12obviously there have
25:13been some
25:13spectacular mistakes
25:14along the way
25:15but every decision
25:16he has made
25:17has been about
25:17building the value
25:19of the club
25:20and I don't think
25:20we're anywhere near
25:21the point where
25:22that's been
25:23fully realised.
25:24It's changed now
25:25the landscape
25:26has changed
25:26when being
25:27in the Premier League
25:28so I mean
25:29the talk is
25:30if you're a
25:31championship club
25:31that's the time
25:32to sell
25:32a football club
25:33because potentially
25:35you can buy
25:36a football club
25:37in inverted commas
25:38relatively cheaply
25:39and if you
25:41get it right
25:42you can make
25:43a lot of money
25:45if you get
25:46promotion to the Premier League.
25:47Sunderland are now
25:48in the position
25:48where they're in
25:49the Premier League
25:50so their value
25:51is exponentially changed
25:52because the
25:54financial implications
25:55of being in the
25:56Premier League
25:56has changed
25:57so whether that
25:58has changed
25:59whether that changes
25:59because the other
26:01interesting aspect
26:02of the whole
26:02ownership issue
26:03over Sunderland
26:04is it's not just
26:05Kirill
26:05it's Juan Satori
26:06as well
26:07and he holds
26:08a significant
26:08shareholding
26:09in the football club
26:10so it's a bit
26:12it's a bit
26:13of a grey area
26:14I think
26:14there's a bit
26:15of ambiguity
26:16surrounding
26:16exactly who
26:18owns what
26:19of the football club
26:20and where
26:22that leads
26:22to in terms
26:23of potential
26:24selling of
26:26the football club
26:27I think
26:27they would
26:27definitely
26:28welcome
26:28investment
26:29I'd be surprised
26:29if there was
26:30a sale
26:30and we all
26:31have to make
26:32a pact
26:32that if a sale
26:32announced in
26:33the morning
26:33I never said
26:34this and you
26:35never heard
26:35anything of it
26:37so we've got
26:38a question here
26:39from Graham
26:39who says
26:39given Sunderland's
26:40promotion winning
26:41squad
26:41at the youngest
26:42average age
26:43in the championship
26:44do you think
26:45the model
26:46will be tweaked
26:47to consider
26:48signing some
26:49players with
26:49top flight
26:50experience
26:51which I sort
26:52of just answered
26:52I think they
26:53definitely will
26:54I mean I don't
26:55think it's going
26:55to be fundamentally
26:57different
26:57I think that
26:58they're going
26:58to see this
26:59as an opportunity
26:59to sign
27:00more exciting
27:01wonder kids
27:02more exciting
27:02young players
27:03but the early
27:04vibe that you
27:06definitely get
27:07is that they
27:08want to sign
27:08four or five
27:09players who can
27:10come in and
27:10impact the team
27:11straight away
27:12from day one
27:13and I think
27:14that's reflecting
27:14the fact that
27:15a lot of these
27:15players are a little
27:16bit older
27:16than some of the
27:17players that have
27:18come in
27:18and probably cost
27:19a hell of a lot
27:20more money as
27:20well
27:20I think that's
27:22inevitable
27:23I think it's
27:24it has to be
27:25I mean there's a
27:27lot of talk at the
27:28end of last season
27:28about players like
27:29Chris Mepham
27:30do they try and
27:31sign him
27:31I mean he's 26
27:3327 so he's
27:34outside technically
27:35the sort of age
27:36range 24 that the
27:38club has generally
27:38been looking at
27:39but we know from
27:40his experience
27:41he knows the
27:42Premier League
27:42he's played the
27:43Premier League
27:44he plays for
27:44Wales
27:44he's outside
27:46as I say
27:47that technically
27:48their age group
27:49but I think
27:51they have to
27:51I don't see how
27:53you can compete
27:55in the Premier League
27:56now unless you've
27:57got experience
27:59in that squad
28:00and that's got to
28:01come from 25
28:0326 27 year olds
28:04I think and it's
28:05not it's not just
28:06about the ages
28:06it's the understanding
28:07of the level
28:08it's a completely
28:09new
28:12I mean
28:15it's quite
28:18it's quite easy
28:19to sort of
28:19frighten people
28:20about the Premier
28:21League but
28:22it is
28:23it is terrifyingly
28:25good
28:25I don't
28:26I don't
28:26you know
28:26you even
28:28even the struggling
28:29teams last season
28:30the Wolves
28:31this world
28:31or whatever
28:32who were down
28:32there or thereabouts
28:33they on their day
28:35they played some
28:35dazzlingly good
28:37football
28:37the level
28:39is
28:40it is
28:40it is
28:41it is completely
28:42another level
28:43and to maintain
28:44that
28:45over a season
28:46week in
28:48week out
28:48it
28:50it is quite
28:51frightening
28:51and it's daunting
28:52you know
28:54that's why
28:55they've got to
28:56get this recruitment
28:57right
28:57they've got to
28:58know
28:58and I think
29:00they do know
29:00what they're getting
29:01what they're walking
29:02into
29:02they do know
29:03the you know
29:04the limitations
29:05of the current
29:05squad
29:05they know
29:06the limitations
29:06of
29:07the club
29:08at the minute
29:08and there's a lot
29:09they have to
29:10overcome
29:10in the next
29:11month or two
29:11I don't think
29:13they should be
29:14bewildered by that
29:15I think they should
29:15take it
29:16look at it
29:16as an exciting
29:17opportunity
29:18and if they get
29:19the recruitment
29:19right
29:20I still feel
29:20optimistic
29:21that they can
29:21buck the trend
29:23if you like
29:23but it won't be
29:24easy
29:24I mean
29:25it certainly
29:26won't be easy
29:27and there'll be
29:28plenty of games
29:29we come away
29:29from
29:30thinking
29:30well
29:31we were given
29:32a lesson
29:33there
29:33I honestly
29:34think people
29:36should be
29:36excited and
29:37optimistic
29:38not just about
29:38next season
29:39but about
29:39the next
29:40four or five
29:41years
29:41because I think
29:41there is a genuine
29:42that point before
29:43about you're now
29:44the landscape's
29:45changed because
29:46you put yourself
29:46in that
29:47echelon of
29:48clubs who've got
29:49Premier League
29:50money
29:50and that does
29:52change
29:52it changes
29:52everything
29:53I think there's
29:54an understanding
29:55now that you
29:56can't do exactly
29:57what we've done
29:57for the last
29:58three or four
29:58years
29:58the way it's
30:00been kind of
30:01explained to me
30:01is that
30:02you go up
30:03from League
30:03One to the
30:03Championship
30:04you go up
30:04one division
30:05you go up
30:06from the
30:06Championship
30:06to the
30:07Premier League
30:07you go up
30:08one division
30:09on paper
30:09you're going
30:09up three
30:10divisions
30:10in reality
30:11and so I
30:12think there's
30:12an absolute
30:12acceptance
30:13that you have
30:14to shop in
30:15a different
30:15market
30:15that you have
30:16to bring in
30:16players who are
30:17capable of playing
30:18at that level
30:18and I think we
30:19will see a little
30:20bit of a difference
30:20this year
30:21I think the big
30:22thing though
30:22is that I
30:24think you've
30:24got to sort
30:26of see it as
30:26this is an
30:27opportunity to
30:28change
30:29Sunderland's
30:29future for the
30:30next ten years
30:30if you do this
30:31right
30:31you know
30:32if you look at
30:33even teams like
30:34Fulham
30:35Bournemouth
30:36who have now
30:37established themselves
30:37in the mid-table
30:38Premier League
30:38they have had a
30:40relegation along
30:40the way
30:41now hopefully
30:41that won't
30:41happen with
30:42Sunderland
30:42but they have
30:43done it the
30:44right way
30:44they haven't
30:44gone down
30:45with contracts
30:46that they
30:46can't manage
30:46they haven't
30:47got stuck
30:48and when they've
30:48come back up
30:49the second time
30:49they've been in
30:50a much better
30:50position
30:51now hopefully
30:51it won't
30:51come to that
30:52but I think
30:53there is
30:53an understanding
30:55that if you
30:56manage this
30:56right you have
30:57changed the
30:58club for the
30:58next decade
30:59I honestly
30:59think that
31:00next season
31:01might be
31:01tough in some
31:02parts but I
31:02genuinely think
31:03it's an exciting
31:04time
31:04so we've got a
31:08question here
31:08from Dan
31:09who said
31:11is anyone
31:12talking about
31:12the possibility
31:13of losing
31:15Labris
31:15we're talking
31:16a lot about
31:17keeping certain
31:17players
31:18the thing I would
31:20say is
31:20Labris
31:21loves it here
31:22I mean he
31:23absolutely loves
31:24it
31:25I think from
31:26his perspective
31:26he feels like
31:27he's just won
31:28the lottery
31:29and I think
31:29there's a lot
31:30of managers
31:30who wouldn't
31:31love the way
31:32Sunderland operate
31:33love the structure
31:34they might like
31:35a bit more
31:35influence
31:35I think for him
31:36the way that
31:37Sunderland's set up
31:38allows him to
31:38focus on what
31:40he absolutely
31:40loves
31:41which is
31:41nerding out
31:42over his
31:43laptop
31:43watching the
31:44training clips
31:45designing the
31:46training sessions
31:47he has a big
31:47same recruitment
31:48let's get that
31:49right
31:49he's got a
31:49very very
31:50powerful voice
31:51obviously
31:51Isidore and
31:52Lafay
31:53Enzo what a
31:54player man
31:55but
31:55he's obviously
31:58had a big
31:59a big
32:00he's obviously
32:01had a big
32:02say in that
32:02he's been
32:05waiting for a
32:05long time for
32:06this opportunity
32:06he started
32:07learning English
32:08two years ago
32:08didn't he
32:09waiting for the
32:10right opportunity
32:10he wanted to
32:11manage in England
32:11I think especially
32:12because his kids
32:13are a little bit
32:13older aren't they
32:14so it was the
32:14right time for him
32:15to make the move
32:16he loves it here
32:17his dog
32:18absolutely loves it
32:19here
32:19loves the beaches
32:20it's true
32:22doesn't he
32:23he hasn't taken
32:24to calling you
32:24Enzo has he
32:25he absolutely
32:30loves it here
32:31so I'm sure
32:33I'm sure he's
32:34got a nice
32:35pay rise in his
32:36contract
32:36he's got two
32:37years left
32:38you never know
32:39but Regis
32:40loves it here
32:41and he loves
32:41the really
32:43interest in the
32:43history of the
32:44club isn't he
32:44he's really
32:45bought into that
32:46that side of
32:47things
32:47I mean I
32:50think it's
32:50fascinating
32:51because a lot
32:51of people
32:51outside of
32:53Sunderland I
32:55think are
32:56going to make
32:56this sort of
32:57Arsene Wenger
32:58connection
32:58you know
32:59here's the
33:00next Arsene
33:00Wenger
33:01he's come
33:01from France
33:02he's intellectual
33:02he's bright
33:03he's very
33:05determined
33:05he's very
33:06ambitious
33:06but I think
33:07they're totally
33:08different characters
33:09I mean I think
33:09Regis is ambitious
33:10I do think he
33:12wants to achieve
33:12something here
33:13it's inevitable
33:16that if he does
33:16do well
33:17next season
33:18he's going to
33:19make headlines
33:20he's going to
33:20be in the
33:21spotlight
33:21I mean look
33:23at you know
33:24the manager
33:25merry-go-round
33:26at the moment
33:27is farcical
33:28I mean
33:29what's the
33:30average length
33:31of term
33:32of a manager
33:32it's something
33:32like eight
33:33or nine months
33:34now
33:34which is just
33:36staggering
33:36I mean
33:36I've covered
33:38Sunderland for
33:3820
33:39this is a
33:3923rd year
33:41and I think
33:42it's 21
33:42managers
33:43you just
33:44that's just
33:45not sustainable
33:46that's just
33:46not
33:47you know
33:47that sort
33:48of turnover
33:49of coaches
33:50and managers
33:51is
33:51ridiculous
33:53and you'd
33:55hope now
33:56that like you
33:57say Regis
33:58likes it here
33:58the club
34:00is a fit
34:01for him
34:02it works
34:03within the
34:04we talked
34:05before about
34:05Kirill Louis
34:06Dreyfus
34:06building this
34:07sort of family
34:08feel of the
34:08club
34:09that all
34:10it all
34:11feels right
34:12so hopefully
34:13you know
34:14if he does
34:15have a
34:15successful
34:15start to
34:16the season
34:16and it
34:17goes well
34:18then who
34:19knows
34:19I mean
34:19he could
34:19be here
34:20for a good
34:20few years
34:20yeah
34:21and I
34:21mean
34:21what makes
34:22him tick
34:23is a little
34:23bit different
34:24to most
34:24managers as
34:25well
34:25he's not
34:25someone who
34:26started off
34:26in management
34:26early
34:27he's constantly
34:28thinking about
34:28his next
34:29step
34:29he's ambitious
34:30but he loves
34:31training
34:32he loves
34:32coaching
34:33so I think
34:34that as long
34:34as he has
34:36the freedom
34:36I don't
34:38think he's
34:38comfortable
34:39in the
34:39spotlight
34:40either
34:40and to a
34:40certain extent
34:41he's out
34:41of that
34:42here
34:42it sort of
34:44works for him
34:44he can
34:45quietly get
34:45on with the
34:46job that
34:46he's doing
34:47and the
34:48world's media
34:48is not in
34:49his face
34:50it's not
34:51happening
34:51in that
34:52respect
34:52because he
34:53clearly isn't
34:54comfortable in
34:54front of
34:55cameras
34:55he doesn't
34:55like that
34:56side of
34:56it
34:57you know
34:57from a
34:58press
34:58conference
34:58he likes
34:59to come
34:59in and
34:59go out
35:00he's not
35:01at ease
35:03if you like
35:03in that
35:04environment
35:04so
35:05you know
35:07I think
35:07the club
35:08suits him
35:09in that
35:09respect
35:10and even
35:10in the
35:10Premier League
35:11I think
35:11it will
35:11still
35:12suit him
35:13in that
35:13respect
35:13because he
35:14won't
35:14you know
35:15he's not
35:15fashionable
35:16put it
35:16that way
35:17okay
35:18before we
35:19finish
35:19show of
35:20hands
35:20who thinks
35:21Sunderland
35:21is staying
35:21up this
35:22year
35:22yeah
35:24love that
35:26love that
35:27I just want
35:29to say
35:29a massive
35:29thanks
35:30for coming
35:30down
35:31I really
35:32hope you've
35:33enjoyed
35:33you and I
35:33I've had a
35:34great time
35:34we will
35:35hopefully
35:35do one
35:36of these
35:37on the
35:38eve of the
35:38new season
35:39so keep
35:39your eyes
35:40peeled
35:40we'll announce
35:40that
35:41love to see
35:42you back
35:42down
35:42thanks so
35:44much for
35:44coming
35:44it really
35:45means a lot
35:46how are the
35:47lads
35:47there
35:48there you go
35:48applause
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