Bill Hagerty Rails Against 'Gross Misuse Of Taxpayer Dollars' Targeted By Trump-Backed Rescissions

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During a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, Sen. Bill Hagerty (R-TN) questioned OMB Director about President Trump's rescissions request.

Transcript

00:00I am going to try to race over and vote. I am going to ask unanimous consent that

00:08statements from the George W. Bush Institute and Bill Gates be put into the

00:14record without objection. Thank you. Director Vogt, welcome. Thank you. As we've

00:22heard today, rescissions are a long-standing feature of the

00:25appropriations process and that this committee routinely includes rescissions

00:29in its annual funding bills, correct? Yes, Senator. For example, the most recent

00:34appropriations bill enacted by this committee included 162 rescissions

00:39totaling over $60 billion in previously appropriated funding. That's over six times

00:43the amount proposed in the rescission request that we're reviewing today. To be

00:47clear, the rescissions request we're debating today is straightforward. It's

00:52simple. And the examples that you provided underscore a gross misuse of

00:56taxpayer funding. I want to turn to a different issue. It's one that's crucial to

01:06America's long-term competitiveness in my view. We want our nation to remain a

01:10global hub for innovation and for economic growth. We must ensure that our research

01:15institutions have the ability to compete on the international stage and that

01:18starts with examining how we fund these research institutions. It's important to

01:23recognize that life-saving biomedical research can, if properly managed, be a key

01:29driver of our nation's strategic advantage in science and technology. I'm fully

01:34supportive, as I know this administration is, in ensuring that every dollar

01:38entrusted to us by the taxpayer is used efficiently, especially when it comes to

01:43research on these activities. We must ensure that these valuable funds are

01:47focused on advancing scientific research and not wasted on administrative

01:52expenses. One particular area that has received considerable attention is the use

01:57of grant funding for so-called indirect costs and overhead. I'm a businessman. It

02:04wouldn't be the first time that I've seen all kinds of costs classified as, quote,

02:07indirect costs. However, when we take a closer look at what is being defined as

02:13indirect costs, in this circumstance, it can often include expenses like personnel,

02:18like hazardous waste disposal, secure data storage. In many cases, these costs

02:24aren't unrelated luxuries. They may well be essential to our ability to conduct safe

02:29and high-quality research, research that gives America a competitive advantage

02:33against the world. As a director of vote, my question is this. As the

02:37administration looks at ways to make sure taxpayer funds are efficiently and

02:42effectively used on research and not on bloated overhead, do you believe there is

02:47room to work with Congress, and with this committee in particular, to make sure we get

02:51it right when it comes to accounting for activities that are mission critical to

02:54research and those that are truly wasteful or overly bureaucratic, in a way that

02:59provides transparency to the public, to the Congress, and to OMB, and to do so

03:04without stifling American innovation? Absolutely, Senator, and I appreciate the

03:08question. I know this is a priority for both you and the chair. Many of my, much of

03:13my time right now is being spent with university presidents, chancellors of

03:17systems, to get a handle on the extent to which, and quite frankly, they have come

03:22forward and said, look, we know there's an issue. We can't continue to receive 40 to

03:2750 percent for indirect cost rates when Bill Gates pays out 10 percent from the

03:31Gates Foundation. So we are working through a guidance on that and we'll continue

03:37our work and we'll do it in close collaboration with this committee and

03:40you. Thank you, Director Vogt. I must say I've had a number of those

03:43conversations. I doubt as many as you have, but in those conversations what I've

03:48also found is that the federal government imposes certain requirements on research

03:52institutions, reporting requirements, compliance requirements, compliance

03:55requirements that they can't even explain nor do they understand the logic

03:58behind them. Many of the redundant overlapping are just a royal pain in the you

04:03know what. And so I applaud any effort that we might also undertake to try to

04:08streamline those costs, to try to make this as efficient and effective as we

04:11possibly can. So I'm a firm believer that the federal government can learn a

04:16great deal from the private sector when it comes to efficiency, when it comes to

04:19return on investment, and streamlining is one of those opportunities as well.

04:24And I still believe that there are inefficiencies in our research

04:27enterprises, don't get me wrong, but I also believe that we must have accurate and

04:31transparent accounting so that we can appropriately balance our shared goals

04:35of physical discipline and life-saving research. Thank you very much, Director Vogt.

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