During a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, Sen. Brian Schatz (D-HI) asked OMB Director Russell Vought for specific figures for cuts within President Trump's rescissions request.
00:00Senator Schatz. Thank you, Chair, Vice Chair, Director. Good to meet you. Thank you for being here. I'm going to try to get some clarity on numbers. In the package, you proposed to rescind $500 million from the USAID global health programs that Secretary Rubio is trying to move to the State Department. That account funds a wide range of bipartisan priorities.
00:26And so I just kind of want to walk them with you, and you can tell me the extent of the cuts. So are you cutting funding for maternal and child health and GAVI or nutrition? And if so, by how much?
00:42Again, Senator, this account was structured to give you a reflection of the unobligated balances in those main accounts. We will have substantial global health funding at the end.
00:56How about, so the answer is. Family planning and it's PEPFAR. Hold on, I don't want to. Family planning and PEPFAR. Yeah, I don't want to talk over each other, okay? Sure.
01:05TB, malaria, polio, is there a cut there? And if so, how much? Again, those have been priorities that we have had, as you've seen in our budget. But again.
01:16Director, Director, it's fine if you want to say you're not going to tell me, but we don't have to launch into our talking points.
01:23I'm just trying to get a number. And it's pretty customary in front of the Appropriations Committee with the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, who is proposing to rescind dollars for me to say,
01:34are you going to cut this? And if so, by how much? And I don't think it's actually a sufficient answer to say we see unobligated balances and we'll either get back to you or not.
01:47So, what about family planning? Are you cutting that? Yes. How much? $500 million.
01:55Okay. Pandemic prevention?
01:57Again, there are two accounts for global health. $500 million for family planning and $400 million for PEPFAR.
02:08The extent to which you want us to be specific is not a test and a standard in which you hold yourselves up to with regard to appropriations bills.
02:17You don't ask us to say, we don't ask the Congress to say, we want a rack up of every grant and recipient and every specific line item and program.
02:28We work with the allocations that you give us. And there's obviously back and forth as it pertains to the interactions between the legislative and executive branch.
02:39We're giving you the extent to which the formal, the top line accounts are impacted.
02:43And the main story is the extent to which the unobligated balances are flush.
02:47Could we please take turns? Thank you.
02:49You're proposing to rescind $1.3 billion in addition to $1.5 billion in emergency funds that you said you won't spend for humanitarian assistance.
03:05The big chunks of this are Sudan, Syria, Ukraine, and DRC.
03:12And those are roughly equal amounts that we're currently spending.
03:15Are you planning on distributing the reductions equally among those four baskets?
03:22Do you have an idea of which of these humanitarian crises are going to get less funding?
03:28Or do you consider that your prerogative to decide after we enact this rescissions package?
03:34Again, we are looking at the flexibilities that you've given us within appropriation.
03:38Do you think it's your prerogative to decide which of these to defund?
03:45Or do you think it's the legislature's prerogative?
03:48You all write appropriations bills.
03:50You have allocations that are set in those appropriations bills.
03:54We take an assessment as to what is there in terms of unobligated balances.
03:59And we make a decision as to what is necessary.
04:03But the notion, unless you've written into the law in terms of your statutory expectations, there is great flexibility there.
04:12And much of, I think, quite frankly, the fake news this year has been the extent to which we are pursuing our flexibilities into the law
04:19to make sure that funding is aligned with our priorities.
04:23Let me try it this way, Director.
04:26It's plainly true that you're exercising your authorities to the maximum extent of the law,
04:34and then we can have an argument about whether or not you're exceeding your statutory and constitutional authorities.
04:40But it's certainly within the prerogative of the legislative branch when considering a rescissions package
04:46to say this thing isn't specific enough for me to vote yes.
04:50This is actually our call now.
04:55And if you're not going to give us any specificity and say,
04:58look, we've got the authority to ignore you, that's actually true.
05:02And then we've got the authority to reject this package.
