'I Asked You A Simple Question': Diana Degette Does Not Let Up On Sec. RFK Jr. In Tense Grilling

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At a House Energy Committee hearing on Tuesday, Rep. Diana DeGette (D-CO) questioned HHS Sec. RFK Jr. about possible retaliation against NIH scientists.

Transcript

00:00I'm going to yield back and recognize the gentlelady from Colorado,

00:03ranking member DeGette, for five minutes of questioning.

00:06Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:07Mr. Secretary, members of this subcommittee sent you letters seeking information

00:11on February 13th, February 28th, March 13th, March 20th, March 25th,

00:17April 1st, April 3rd, April 9th, April 10th, April 11th, April 28th, April 29th,

00:23May 28th, June 10th, June 11th, June 17th, June 22nd, and June 23rd,

00:28to which we have received no response from your agency whatsoever.

00:33Mr. Chairman, I'd like to enter these into the record, please.

00:38Without rejection.

00:40On June 16th, a federal judge ruled a large swath of NIH grant terminations,

00:47illegal and void, and vacated them, requiring that the grants resume.

00:52These grants deal with science that is disfavored by this administration,

00:56as we just heard from the witness.

00:58Judge William Young, a Reagan appointee, said that the administration's explanations

01:03for terminating the grants were, quote,

01:06bereft of reasoning virtually in their entirety, end quote.

01:10He added, quote, I've sat on this bench now for 40 years,

01:14and I've never seen government racial discrimination like this, end quote.

01:18Mr. Secretary, I have a yes or no question.

01:21Does the department intend to comply with Judge Young's ruling?

01:25Yes or no.

01:25I will comply with the law.

01:26Yes or no, sir.

01:27I'll comply with the law.

01:30As reported, in your opening statement, Mr. Secretary,

01:34you said that you're committed to reducing bureaucracy.

01:37But as reported in the Washington Post on April 17, 2025, HHS imposed a new layer of bureaucratic

01:46review by which every disbursement has to go through political appointments at HHS.

01:51Hospitals, universities, and community health organizations have told me and the other members

01:57lately that funds are stuck at HHS due to this so-called defend the spend initiative.

02:03I asked you about this in the April 23rd letter over two months ago to which you have not responded,

02:10and I'd like some answers.

02:12Yes or no.

02:13Did HHS conduct a cost-benefit analysis on the defend the spend procedures?

02:19I don't know anything about that Washington Post article.

02:23In letters, you don't know whether you did a cost-benefit analysis, right?

02:27I don't know.

02:27Well, I don't know anything about that Washington Post article.

02:31No, do you know anything about the defend the spend initiative?

02:35About what?

02:37The defend the spend initiative that your agency has.

02:41You don't know about it.

02:43Mr. Chairman, I have an article here dated April 17, 2025, about the defend the spend initiative.

02:50I'd like unanimous consent to enter it into the book.

02:53Without objection.

02:53Now, Mr. Secretary, on June 9th, hundreds of NIH scientists sounded the alarm on how this administration

03:07has wasted millions of research dollars, injected politics into science, and damaged the public trust.

03:1568 Nobel laureates signed this letter.

03:18On June 10th, we sent you a letter.

03:20Of course, we haven't gotten a response with our concerns that you or your staff might retaliate

03:26against them for telling the truth.

03:28So here's my question.

03:29Will you commit today that neither you or anyone else at HHS will take any retaliatory action

03:36against the brave scientists that work at NIH?

03:40This would be an easy answer because it's illegal.

03:43I can commit that we are absolutely depoliticizing science at NIH for the first time.

03:48I will admit that you will not take any retaliation.

03:51The Biden administration, Ms. Chairwoman, the Biden administration politicized the science.

03:58And I just gave you three of thousands of examples of how they did that.

04:04Excuse me, sir.

04:05I asked you a simple question.

04:06Will you commit to not taking retaliatory action against the NIH scientists that signed the letter

04:15about the research dollars, yes or no?

04:17I don't know anything about that letter.

04:18You don't know about the letter?

04:19No, I don't know anything about that letter.

04:21This is the first I've heard of it.

04:22We already put that, our question in the record.

04:25I'd like a response.

04:27Now, in my last few minutes, in our letters dated February 28th, April 1st, and May 28th,

04:35to which you did not respond, we have some questions about reductions in force.

04:39How many HHS employees received RIF notices since you were sworn in?

04:44I think around 10,000.

04:4610,000.

04:47Did you personally approve those layoff decisions?

04:51Of each one, I approved of the policy.

04:55You opposed the policy.

04:57Your NIH director, Jay Bhattacharya, told employees, quote,

05:01I actually don't have any transparency into how those decisions were made,

05:05and I was quite upset about that.

05:07It would have been nice to have some say.

05:10I guess I'll follow up with more written questions, Mr. Chairman.

05:15The gentlelady yields.

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