- 6/23/2025
CBS Sports soccer commentator - Chris Wittyngham - fills us in on the significance of Inter Miami’s success thus far at the FIFA Club World Cup and why tonight’s match vs Palmeiras is critical.
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00:00So, our friend Chris Whittingham is joining us this afternoon.
00:04There is a biggie tonight at Hard Rock Stadium.
00:08Whittingham on the Toyota of Hollywood hotline.
00:11He's a soccer broadcaster for CBS and MLS Season Pass on Apple TV.
00:18And, Whitty, so on Thursday, and we talked about this with Crowder.
00:22He had been off when it happened.
00:24But, on Thursday, Inter-Miami defeated Porto in the FIFA Club World Cup.
00:31And, many, including yourself, said that that was the most important victory in the history of Inter-Miami.
00:37And, perhaps the MLS as a whole.
00:41And, now, you've got Inter-Miami tonight at Hard Rock Stadium.
00:45They take on Palmeiras.
00:47And, explain why the win over Porto was so huge.
00:51And, explain why, if Inter-Miami is able to advance from their group tonight, just how seismic that would be in the world of soccer.
01:01Well, I feel like the major reason why the victory was so important was because, for Major League Soccer, it is a continuing battle for legitimacy.
01:09For this idea that soccer, football, played in MLS is of the level of the sport played in other places.
01:17And, that, ultimately, the only way you can do that is by beating and competing with teams from the countries that normally represent traditional footballing powers.
01:25And, so, the fact that they entered this Club World Cup in a group that I thought was going to be really difficult for them.
01:30When you look at playing Al-Ali, who is a decent side in African football, Palmeiras, one of the biggest sides in Brazil, and Porto, a club that continually compete in the Champions League, continually get to Champions League knockout rounds.
01:43It's the first time that an MLS side has ever beaten a European team in major competition.
01:47The first ever MLS team to win at the Club World Cup.
01:50And, I think that just sort of suggests that, step by step, bit by bit, American soccer, soccer and MLS is getting there.
01:58Now, I appreciate that Inter-Miami are the team with Messi on it.
02:01And, Messi scored a goal in the game.
02:02And, maybe that's not indicative of the fact that American soccer is growing.
02:06It's just that Miami happened to get Messi.
02:08But, I still think that each of these steps are so important for showing that MLS is of the level.
02:13I think that's kind of been what this Club World Cup has been all about.
02:16We all know that the European teams are the best teams, but how big is the gap between them and everyone else?
02:21And, I think it's kind of been shown so far that it's not as big as you might have thought.
02:25And, Chris, to that point, because it's something else we talked about and we were trying to figure it out,
02:29and you're the best soccer expert that I know because Solana doesn't want to hear that.
02:35That's why I said it.
02:36But, no, it's like, what is that gap?
02:39Is it, we talked about, is it college football to NFL?
02:42Is it G League, NBA to NBA?
02:44Like, another sport comparison so I can understand how big the MLS team beating one of those other teams are.
02:52I think to probably do the sport comparison, the cross-sport comparison,
02:57it would probably be like a double-A baseball team beating an MLB baseball team
03:01where you know that the double-A team has some prospects, has some players that can maybe eventually get their way up to the majors,
03:09but, ultimately, the financial gap and the talent gap, thus, is a major reason why you just wouldn't see it happen that often.
03:19That, ultimately, if we played that game 100 times, I think Porto maybe is of the level of, let's say, a bad Major League Baseball team.
03:26The Marlins or, I don't know, who's bad in baseball right now?
03:30The Colorado Rockies.
03:32It would be kind of like that.
03:34I think that Porto, while a European team, and obviously they have a really good squad,
03:38it's not Paris Saint-Germain, it's not Real Madrid, it's not Barcelona,
03:41but it's still a really good team from a really good level.
03:45And Miami not just went and won the game because Messi knocked in a free kick,
03:48but I actually thought that they were the better team for large stretches of the game.
03:52And I think kind of looking forward to tonight, I think it'll be very similar playing this Palmetto side,
03:57who, in their own right, are a very good team in South America.
04:00And we've seen all the Brazilian teams do incredibly well at this Club World Cup.
04:04So, I think that'll be a huge challenge as well.
04:05But I think it's kind of a Major League to double-A.
04:09You know that some of those double-A baseball players can play.
04:11We know at some point we'll see them in the majors,
04:13but maybe right now they're not close to the level of Major League players.
04:17Witty, what's the biggest difference between the Inter-Miami team that lost 3-0
04:22like a month before the FIFA Club World Cup to Orlando City with,
04:26I think, everybody playing, if I remember correctly.
04:29I think Jordi Alba started up top with Leo Messi and Luis Suarez in the midfield,
04:33and then they lost to, who else, Philly?
04:36Minnesota, Minnesota 4-0.
04:38Right.
04:38They got absolutely destroyed in Minnesota, yeah.
04:41Yeah, I mean, what's the difference between the team at that point of their season,
04:45their campaign to, I know they won two games going into the FIFA Club World Cup,
04:49but then going toe-to-toe with a European team in FC Porto and looking like the better side,
04:56as you said, for most of the game.
04:58I think the biggest thing is solidity, if I were to boil it down to one word.
05:02I think when they play in MLS, they are expected to be the much better team than their opponent.
05:07They're expected to carry the game, keep possession, attack, put numbers forward,
05:12whereas I think in this Porto game, they kind of realize we cannot leave big gaps for Sergio Busquets,
05:18one of the slowest players, even in his prime, he was one of the slowest players in major European football.
05:23Now at 36, 37, he's not going to be able to cover the ground.
05:26For Messi to cover the ground, for Suarez, you have to leave smaller gaps,
05:30and I think that's the biggest thing is, you know what?
05:32We're not going to make the game every single time that we have the ball.
05:34Maybe we lose possession, but we get back into defensive lines,
05:37and we make sure that Porto cannot just pull us apart.
05:40They had their moments.
05:41Oscar Ustadi had his saves to make, but ultimately, at the end,
05:44the defending from the team was a team idea.
05:47It wasn't just the four guys at the back.
05:50I think sometimes with Miami, we dog too much a little bit on the individual players,
05:54where we say, oh, those individual center backs, those individual defenders aren't good enough,
05:59but they're fairly exposed fairly often,
06:02and part of that is because you're trying to attack and be the most brilliant team in MLS,
06:06because you have Messi and Suarez and Busquets and Jordi Alba,
06:10but ultimately, in a game like this where you're kind of outmanned,
06:14you have to resolve and you have to be resolute in defense,
06:17and I think that's what we saw for large portions of the game,
06:20and then when they did have the ball, they were very effective in keeping it,
06:22and Messi, of course, is working his magic all over the pitch.
06:27I had to check and see if solidity was a word,
06:30because I had never heard that used as a word before,
06:32but it is indeed a word, solidity, and it was used in a perfect situation there.
06:38As long as we're talking about language,
06:40I would like to say that too often people, particularly analysts of sports,
06:45use the word aggressiveness instead of aggression.
06:49Aggression is one that annoys me every single time.
06:52The word is aggression, not aggressiveness.
06:55Totally agree. Totally agree.
06:57I'm glad that you pointed that out.
06:58Aggressiveness isn't a word?
06:59I think it might be at this point.
07:01I don't think it is.
07:03Let's see.
07:05Yeah, definitions from Oxford languages does say that it's there.
07:08So aggressiveness, I think, is a thing,
07:10but I think the more correct, and honestly,
07:12it's a better sounding word is aggression.
07:14I don't know, Chris.
07:15That's an opinion.
07:16I don't work in opinions.
07:17I work in Webster.
07:18Well, I can resolve it.
07:21That is a fact,
07:22because I agree that aggression is the proper word to use in that situation.
07:27And if I believe it to be, that is indeed.
07:30I also think it's Miriam Webster, not just Webster.
07:34Well, yeah.
07:35You never know.
07:36Miriam.
07:37No, Miriam's a racist.
07:40I don't know.
07:42Not certain.
07:43Poor Miriam.
07:43We want to cast tonight at Hard Rock Stadium.
07:48What's the crowd breakdown going to be like?
07:51Because Solana has told us.
07:52So Palmeiras, I'm sure, has a huge supporter base,
07:56but also not just Inter-Miami, but Messi fans.
07:59We're expecting, I'm guessing, 60,000 plus, right?
08:02Will it be packed tonight?
08:04Yeah, I'd have to think.
08:05I can look at the tickets now if you want,
08:06but I feel like I had friends who,
08:10honestly, it's kind of an interesting dynamic.
08:12I don't want to say I know people who have checked out on Inter-Miami,
08:16but I know some friends that were very excited when it first started.
08:19They were willing to make the trek out to Chase Stadium
08:22if they lived in Miami or if they lived somewhere
08:24in the southern part of the South Florida area.
08:26And I think bit by bit have kind of gone,
08:28all right, we saw it.
08:29It was cool.
08:30What's next?
08:31And obviously that is sort of very demanding Miami fan.
08:34And I feel like they're in any other city in the country.
08:37It would be a thing every single time,
08:39but I understand that Miami fans get bored.
08:41The Panthers thing happens.
08:42And obviously there's all these other sporting interests,
08:45but I feel like I know a few people that went,
08:47I'm going to go to this thing on Monday.
08:48And I feel like even that first game that they played against Al Ali,
08:52there were more than 6,000 people there,
08:53but a lot of them were Egyptian.
08:55A lot of them were supporters of the opposition team
08:58that made the trip or came from within the country
09:00or from Egypt to come and support their team.
09:02I wonder if tonight, I still think there's going to be a ton of Palmetos fans.
09:06Let's be very clear.
09:06Palmetos is one of the biggest football clubs in the world, honestly,
09:10by supporters base.
09:11They've over, I just looked over 4 million followers on Twitter.
09:14It's a massive club that is going to draw a huge audience.
09:17But I wonder how many people,
09:19how many casuals in South Florida have gone,
09:21all right, there's nothing else going on right now.
09:23Let's see what this Club World Cup is all about
09:25and try and support their team.
09:27Because in all likelihood,
09:29I mean, in all likelihood is kind of perhaps a bit too much of a stretch,
09:33but they have a very good chance Miami do to advance now going forward.
09:37Because what needs to happen exactly?
09:39So the number one tiebreaker,
09:40this is very different than most soccer tournaments,
09:42is head-to-head.
09:43And so the fact that Inter-Miami beat Porto,
09:46there is no way for Porto to overtake Inter-Miami.
09:51If they win tonight, they've got no chance.
09:54They actually, Porto all of a sudden become fans of Miami.
09:56They want Miami to beat Palmeiras so that Porto will have a chance.
09:59So the only way that Miami don't advance is if they lose
10:01and if Al-Ali, the Egyptian team, beat Porto,
10:05which Porto would be favored to win.
10:07I'm actually going to that game tonight
10:09because I'm in Connecticut and it's at MetLife Stadium.
10:12So we're going to make the drive out to MetLife tonight
10:15to watch the other game.
10:16So I do think that...
10:18You're going to get a popcorn?
10:19Of course.
10:19Of course.
10:20Love stadium popcorn.
10:22I love stadium popcorn.
10:23Then goal differential comes into play, right?
10:26Because Al-Ali is negative two or minus two in goal differential.
10:31Inter-Miami is plus one.
10:33So just Inter-Miami losing and Al-Ali winning wouldn't...
10:37Like if it was one nil both ways, it wouldn't matter.
10:40It wouldn't be enough.
10:41Yeah.
10:41Inter-Miami would still get the nod.
10:43So Al-Ali needs...
10:44That's why I can't root for soccer.
10:45I mean, there's so many variables.
10:47I was just about to ask.
10:49Hawk, we're trying to bring this to the U.S.
10:50This is foolishness, what y'all are talking about.
10:53The goal differential as well.
10:54They have their own...
10:55But here's the thing.
10:56I'm Lombin, Al-Ali.
10:57How often do NFL tiebreakers get decided on conference record?
11:02I mean, like the thing is, is that you're used to tiebreakers
11:05and other sports and now this new idea comes in.
11:07I actually think that they have gone very American here
11:10by going to head-to-head.
11:11It was always goal differential was the first tiebreaker.
11:14And I actually think it might go a little bit towards killing the drama
11:17a little bit because if you kind of know the sequence of results,
11:20we're actually in the middle right now of Club World Cup games
11:23where, for example, because Botafogo beat PSG,
11:28PSG cannot catch them.
11:30And so like a little bit of that drama gets killed.
11:32Whereas if PSG, who are right now playing Seattle,
11:34if goal difference was the first tiebreaker,
11:37they'd be trying to pour it on.
11:38They would try to get 10-0.
11:39Right, exactly.
11:40Whereas that is now immaterial
11:42because the goal difference is not the first thing.
11:45So I actually think it kills a little bit of the drama,
11:47but it's a very American way to decide things.
11:48Head-to-head, who won?
11:50And then if you drew,
11:51then let's get into the other crazy tiebreakers.
11:54Maybe we take out the draws.
11:56I mean, you can.
11:58I think in the MLS second division, MLS Next Pro,
12:01every game is decided by penalty kicks.
12:03Do you want that?
12:04Every game.
12:04I would like the whole game to be played as penalty kicks.
12:07The whole game?
12:08The whole game is just penalty kicks.
12:11And I'd be fine with baseball just doing home run derbies.
12:13How has the FIFA Club World Cup been?
12:21Has it delivered?
12:23What has fan support looked like around the country?
12:27And does it get a high grade?
12:31It sort of depends on who you ask.
12:33I think a lot of...
12:34And I normally, in the world of soccer,
12:37tend to listen to a lot of Europeans.
12:40I listen to a lot of English podcasts and read a lot of...
12:43Because obviously, they're the ones that cover the sport
12:45in English language more than any other.
12:47I've been very snooty about the Club World Cup.
12:49And I get it, right?
12:50This is a flawed organization, FIFA,
12:53that put this event on.
12:54They kind of wedged it into the middle of a calendar
12:56that a lot of people are talking about.
12:58It's way too busy.
12:59They're European teams that get to the business end
13:02of their competitions that play between 50 and 60 games.
13:05And people are going,
13:05this is too much.
13:06And what is this FIFA thing?
13:08But I think on its face, a Club World Cup should exist.
13:11I think a big Club World Cup should exist
13:13to decide who is the best continent at soccer.
13:16And I understand that Europe, by definition,
13:19by the amount of money that they spend,
13:20is going to be presumed to be the favorite.
13:22But this honestly should have existed for 40, 50 years.
13:25And if that were to have been the case,
13:27nobody now would be going,
13:28why does this thing exist?
13:29So I think on its face,
13:31I think a lot of people are going,
13:32this is unnecessary.
13:33But I do think that in certain places and for certain clubs,
13:37the support has been absolutely amazing.
13:40Even right now, we're watching Seattle play PSG.
13:42Seattle never get a chance to play a team like PSG
13:45in a competitive game.
13:46That stadium is a near sellout on a noon Pacific time,
13:49Monday kickoff.
13:51So you're seeing certain games that have great attendance.
13:53There are other games where you look at the champions of Korea
13:56taking on the champions of South Africa.
13:58Also on Hyundai against Mamelody Sundowns played at 6 p.m.
14:02on a Tuesday in Orlando.
14:03And there were 3,100 people there.
14:05And you're going, why does this exist?
14:07So I do think for the most part.
14:09Or God bless the 3,100 who were interested enough to go see.
14:12Completely agree.
14:13Completely agree.
14:15Like those 3,100 people are the greatest.
14:17And there was a lightning delay in that game.
14:19Those are the best soccer fans in the world.
14:21So I do think that for the most part,
14:25particularly the South American teams,
14:26and we saw it again with Boca Juniors on Friday night
14:28when they played Bayern Munich.
14:30Absolutely unbelievable atmosphere.
14:32That honestly might be one of the best atmospheres
14:34that has ever happened at that stadium,
14:36at Hard Rock Stadium.
14:37We've never seen an atmosphere like that.
14:39And I think as well,
14:41it's just the envy of even major European teams.
14:44They have amazing support.
14:45You see the singing and the chanting and the flares and all that.
14:48And still Boca over delivers what they do week in and week out.
14:51So I think that there have definitely been good stories to tell,
14:54if not all 100% positive stories to tell.
14:57I think one of the biggest ones I think that's going to be talked about a lot
14:59is heat.
15:00Because we saw yesterday Real Madrid play in Charlotte.
15:02It feels like 102 at kickoff.
15:05And, you know, Europeans are just not used to that.
15:07They're not used to heat and humidity like that.
15:09And you know what?
15:10That'll lead me to my question, Woody.
15:12Like the U.S., the American soccer fan,
15:16like what's why?
15:17What's the point?
15:18Like you said, Europe, South America's stupid.
15:20Europe's stupid.
15:22You know, everybody has like soccer is the sport of the world.
15:26Why the hell are people concerned so much about U.S. soccer?
15:30I think, well, number one,
15:32it is the biggest sporting marketplace in the world.
15:35There is no country that does more in sports than the United States.
15:39And this is the world's game.
15:41Everyone, every country has a league,
15:43has a national team that they have immense pride over.
15:47And there is this idea that three of the most populous countries in the world
15:50aren't really that good at it.
15:51China, India, and the United States.
15:53And so there was this project that started in the late 80s, early 90s.
15:57What can we do?
15:58What can we do to get the sport to grow a little bit?
16:00And I think now when you ask the question why,
16:03why is because for the most part,
16:05when the U.S. participates in, let's say, Olympic sports,
16:08they are likely to win.
16:09They're likely to get the most golds, the most silvers,
16:11the most medals in basketball.
16:12What do we love about the American basketball team?
16:15The fact that they go out there and they dominate everyone.
16:18Well, what if the United States was for once an underdog
16:20and had to overcome a structural deficiency
16:23that just flatly it is not part of the culture here
16:26and you're playing from behind against France, Spain, Argentina, Germany,
16:31all these countries that this is the only thing
16:34and the best thing that they do
16:35and you're trying to eventually overcome them.
16:37I think that's kind of the biggest story to tell in American soccer
16:40is, yeah, sometimes it's bad.
16:41Sometimes you're nowhere near good enough.
16:43You get destroyed by the Netherlands at the last World Cup.
16:45Your MLS sides are sometimes getting your heads handed to you
16:48at the Club World Cup, but bit by bit, year by year,
16:52it gets better and it gets better
16:53and eventually at some point,
16:55the United States will be able to compete
16:56whether it's in 2050 or 2070 or 2090
16:59on the level of some of the major European teams
17:01because it really should be inevitable
17:03based off of the wealth that there is in this country
17:05because obviously a lot of this comes down to money
17:07but also the sporting infrastructure
17:09and how much people care about sports here.
17:10It should be something that the United States
17:12is competitive at on a global stage.
17:14This would be a big step towards that, right?
17:17Tonight, if Inter-Miami advances out of the group,
17:21this would be a step towards that.
17:23I think every step is a step towards that.
17:25Obviously, I think for MLS to go 0 for 3,
17:28to not have won any of the games that they played
17:31would have been an embarrassment.
17:32And I think even Seattle, who will likely leave the day,
17:35I actually don't know what the score is
17:36at this precise moment, but will likely leave the day
17:38having not taken a single point from their group
17:41impressed by playing PSG, the champions of Europe,
17:45Botafogo, the champions of South America,
17:46and Atletico Madrid, one of the best teams in Spain,
17:50pretty well.
17:50And so I think it is a step.
17:52Every step is a step.
17:53So I, and Jimmy writes that it's 1-0 to PSG at the break,
17:57which is not a surprise.
17:58Actually, kind of a well-controlled result by Seattle.
18:00But I do think that for American soccer,
18:03every step is a step.
18:04And I think it's a step for,
18:06obviously Miami have gone a level above
18:08every other team in MLS in terms of ambition,
18:11in terms of spend, to go and get Messi,
18:14to go and get all of his friends.
18:15And the owner, Jorge Mas, wants to go to the league
18:18and say, we want to keep, we want to buy more players.
18:21We want to bring even more in,
18:22but there's a salary cap
18:23and there's a restriction on what we can do.
18:25What if we loosened up some of those rules
18:26and went, what if we can go buy more players
18:28and make this thing even better?
18:30And he has a result in hand of the Club World Cup
18:33making a knockout round.
18:34Maybe they even go and beat Bultifogo in the next stage
18:37and they make a quarterfinal of the Club World Cup.
18:39And you're going, well,
18:40if this is what we do with these restrictions,
18:42imagine what we can do.
18:43The entire Club World Cup.
18:44I mean, that's, that would be a bit much.
18:47That would be a bit much.
18:48But if there weren't all these restrictions,
18:50maybe you can go even further.
18:52I think that's kind of the case
18:54that everyone wants to make right now.
18:56Hey, Witty, just as an aside,
18:58pitch conditions.
18:59There were a lot of MetLife
19:01where they're playing right now
19:02or they're playing tonight, rather.
19:04And Atlanta, there were a lot of
19:06artificial turf stadiums that were converted
19:09and it could be a precursor
19:11to how it's going to look and play and feel
19:13for next World Cup,
19:14the actual international tournament.
19:17What do you grade pitch conditions
19:18from what you're hearing
19:19based on the fact that
19:20nobody cares about this stuff more than you do?
19:23And again, the Europeans are not having it.
19:26So the first weekend,
19:29Atletico Madrid's Marcus Llorente
19:30said that it was so hot
19:32and the turf was so different
19:33than what he's used to.
19:34The grass was so different
19:34than what he's used to.
19:35He couldn't feel his toes
19:36while he was playing.
19:38Jude Bellingham of Real Madrid
19:40complained yesterday
19:40that the pitch was slow
19:42and tough on his knees.
19:43So we have seen some complaints.
19:45For the most part, though,
19:46the games play well.
19:48I also think that there is just a difference
19:49between playing in 100 degree heat
19:52and humidity
19:52that the grass inevitably has to take on.
19:55But I think largely it has been fine.
19:57I think we'll see even more
19:59steps taken towards next year.
20:00There are a few stadiums
20:01that actually need to have construction done
20:03to make the playing surface wider
20:05because it's too narrow.
20:07The American football has played
20:09over 53 yards in width.
20:11It's 53 by 120 yards,
20:13whereas soccer is played
20:15usually on 75 by 120.
20:18So it's way wider.
20:19So actually, I think SoFi Stadium,
20:21AT&T Stadium,
20:22I think even maybe Hard Rock,
20:24need to make their playing surfaces wider
20:26in order,
20:27and that would involve taking seats out.
20:29So there's several million dollars
20:30that are going to be spent
20:30on fixing this at several stadiums.
20:32But I think for the most part,
20:33it hasn't played a role,
20:34which I think is what everyone wants.
20:36Doesn't seem to be
20:37any club World Cup champion futures right now,
20:41but I'm looking at Group F here.
20:42Who do you like?
20:43The Russia Diamonds, Flonays,
20:46or the Melodious Sundowns?
20:48So, I'm sorry.
20:52Give me the options one more time.
20:54There's Russia,
20:55there's Flonays,
20:56and there's a Melodious Sundown.
20:57That's Nwara Red Diamonds of Japan.
21:00That's Fluminense.
21:03Chris Whittingham,
21:04he is,
21:04text me,
21:05Chris Whittingham,
21:06he's a soccer broadcaster
21:07for CBS and MLS season pass
21:10on Apple TV.
21:11There is a big one tonight.
21:12Nine o'clock tonight,
21:14Hard Rock Stadium,
21:15Inter-Miami,
21:16FIFA Club World Cup.
21:18Thank you, Whittingham.
21:19By the way,
21:19on my sportsbook,
21:20I'm seeing Inter-Miami,
21:2380 to 1,
21:24plus 8,000
21:24to win the Club World Cup.
21:26That doesn't seem like enough
21:27to win the entire tournament.
21:29I agree.
21:30I mean,
21:30considering the teams
21:31you have to beat along the way,
21:32PSG is the favorite
21:33at plus 300.
21:34Yeah,
21:35that doesn't seem like enough for me.
21:36No, I agree.
21:37There you go.
21:38Chris Whittingham.
21:38These letters don't go.
21:39These are not words.
21:41That's what I'm saying.
21:42They make it so difficult.
21:43Yeah,
21:43Bota Fogo.
21:44What is,
21:44what?
21:45Bota Fogo.
21:45I mean,
21:45Bota Fogo de Chau.
21:46Yeah.
21:47There you go.
21:47I think you're looking at
21:48a pop-up ad
21:49for a Brazilian sake.
21:50Esperanza de Tunis.
21:52Yeah.
21:52I don't know about this.
21:54They're from Tunisia.
21:55That's right.
21:56I don't know about this.
21:58Permanent guest list
21:59here at the building.
22:00All right.
22:00See you, Whittingham.
22:02See you guys.
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