- 6/20/2025
Common Sense Bible Study's complete discussion of Proverbs 6.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
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From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Follow me on Truth Social: https://truthsocial.com/@AmericanTorah
Send me a friend request on The Torah Network: https://social.ttn.place/jaycarper
Follow me on Twitter: https://jaycarper.com/twitter
Connect with me on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/americantorah/
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LearningTranscript
00:00:00All right. So welcome back, everyone.
00:00:07Proverbs six, this ought to be an interesting conversation today.
00:00:11We're going to cover all kinds of uncomfortable territory.
00:00:17It's not all so bad. I mean, we've been there before and most of this isn't really that bad, but, you know, it does.
00:00:25It does put some feet into some sticky subjects.
00:00:28Let's read through this chapter before we start talking about it.
00:00:58Go to the aunt, O sluggard. Consider her ways and be wise.
00:01:02Without having any chief, officer or ruler, she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food and harvest.
00:01:08How long will you lie there, O sluggard? When will you arise from your sleep?
00:01:12A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest.
00:01:15And poverty will come upon you like a robber and want like an like an armed man.
00:01:20Every time I read that, I want to say like a one armed man.
00:01:24A worthless person, a wicked man, goes about with crooked speech, winks with his eyes, signals with his feet, points with his finger.
00:01:32But perverted heart devises evil, continually sowing discord.
00:01:36Therefore, calamity will come upon him suddenly.
00:01:38In a moment, he will be broken beyond healing.
00:01:41There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him.
00:01:45Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood.
00:01:50A heart that devises wicked plans.
00:01:53Feet that make haste to run to evil.
00:01:55A false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
00:02:00My son, keep your father's commandment and forsake not your mother's teaching.
00:02:05Find them on your heart always, tie them around your neck.
00:02:08When you walk, they will lead you.
00:02:09When you lie down, they will watch over you.
00:02:11And when you awake, they will talk with you.
00:02:13For the commandment is a lamp, and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life.
00:02:19To preserve you from the evil woman, from the smooth tongue of the adulteress.
00:02:23Do not desire her beauty in your heart, and do not let her capture you with her eyelashes.
00:02:27For the price of a prostitute is only a loaf of bread, but a married woman hunts down a precious life.
00:02:33Can a man carry fire next to his chest, and his clothes not be burned?
00:02:37Or can one walk on hot coals, and his feet not be scorched?
00:02:40So is he who goes into his neighbor's wife.
00:02:44None who touches her will go unpunished.
00:02:46People do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy his appetite when he is hungry.
00:02:51But if he is caught, he will pay sevenfold.
00:02:53He will give all the goods of his house.
00:02:56He who commits adultery lacks sense.
00:02:58He who does it destroys himself.
00:03:00He will get wounds and dishonor, and his disgrace will not be wiped away.
00:03:04For jealousy makes a man furious, and he will not spare when he takes revenge.
00:03:08He will accept no compensation.
00:03:10He will refuse, though you multiply gifts.
00:03:12Well, let's start with the note that I posted in the weekly Bible discussion circle.
00:03:22So a few questions to consider as you're reading Proverbs 6.
00:03:27This chapter can kind of be divided into four semi-discrete units.
00:03:33I mean, they all talk about the same kinds of things, but there seem to be four separate themes.
00:03:39Questions are, what do these four passages have in common?
00:03:44How are they different?
00:03:46And what important factor separates the first two from the second two?
00:03:50So it's verses 1 through 5, verses 6 through 11, verses 12 to 19, and verses 20 to 35.
00:03:58So the first one, well, I'll let some of you give your thoughts here.
00:04:06So I kind of like the way the ISR breaks this down, saying the first five is against suretyship.
00:04:15In other words, what you become a friend with and who you talk to.
00:04:21So kind of like be careful with the friends that you make, who you put in your inner circle.
00:04:28Yeah, definitely.
00:04:30I, you know, you asked the first question is what all these have in common.
00:04:34And for me, what I saw was that all four of these specific descriptions of bad behavior included a lack of foresight or entanglements that lead to destruction.
00:04:48The first being a financial entanglement, the second one being occupational, the third relational, like social relationships, and the finally, you know, sexual or intimate relationships and the disaster that comes from having a lack of foresight or thoughtfulness about your, your connections there.
00:05:10And so I know you had posted that you had recorded a video about that, and I didn't watch the video, but it's something about laziness.
00:05:22Yeah, it was just about one verse in there.
00:05:24But, but, but there is an aspect of laziness that applies to all of this.
00:05:31It's like, instead of walking beside your brother to help them make better financial choices, you're just going to co-sign the loan and then they don't, you know, that's all that you want to do.
00:05:41Or a lot of this, it's just a lot of lack of personal effort or, or that kind of a thing.
00:05:48So that was kind of what I got.
00:05:51Yeah, taking the easy way.
00:05:52Exactly.
00:05:53And then also just, if you look at that list that you have up there, it's, it's almost like a, a closing circle of, you know, words, inaction, action, and then lust.
00:06:06It's just like whatever's closest to your heart and how that, how that can impact your life if it's not correctly dealt with.
00:06:16There are a lot of different ways that you can kind of cut these up and categorize these four sections.
00:06:23But the thing that struck me right away was that the first one was about things that you say, you know, making an agreement with somebody, you know, agreeing to contracts.
00:06:34You know, we have those end user license agreements that we all just check the box and say, yes, I agree, whatever it is.
00:06:40And I don't think anybody anywhere expects anybody to read those.
00:06:44I have no idea if they've ever been challenged by a court, but it does bother me every single time.
00:06:51I mean, I've got to use this software.
00:06:53There's nothing else available.
00:06:54And if I go use some other software, it's going to have its own list of requirements.
00:06:58But I don't want to promise a bunch of things to strangers.
00:07:03And I'm not sure I understand all of the legalese, even when I do try to read them.
00:07:08But the second one isn't about what you're saying or doing.
00:07:11It's about what you're not doing.
00:07:13And it still comes back and bites you.
00:07:15And the third one is about action.
00:07:20I mean, it's trouble that you can avoid, but instead you stepped into it.
00:07:26And then the final one is it's about lust, or you could even say that it's about things that are going on inside of you.
00:07:34Like it's talking about actions, but the actions stem from something that you desire inside of you that you're not necessarily saying.
00:07:42So in that way, you know, the first one is about words, and the second one is about thoughts that become deeds.
00:07:50Go ahead, Randy.
00:07:51No, I didn't know if Crystal was going to hop on.
00:07:54She and I were talking about this proverb two days ago.
00:07:59And so I'm going to steal her insight.
00:08:03Okay.
00:08:03Since she's not on, but we looked at six, no, 12 through 19, and compared it to Galatians 5, 19.
00:08:21So if you go to Galatians 5, 19, and the works of the flesh are well known, which are these adultery, whoring, uncleanliness, indecency, idolatry, drug sorcery, hatred, quarrel, jealousy.
00:08:38I'm reading from the ISR, fits of rage, self-admissions, dissensions, fractions, envy, murders, drunkenness, wild parties, and the like, of which I have forewarned you.
00:08:51And when you take that 19 through 20, all that in there, and then you kind of compare it to the six things that Yahweh hates, you can see a lot of similarities to that.
00:09:08And so I thought that was really, like I said, when Crystal and I were talking about two days ago, it was like, oh, yeah, that's really neat.
00:09:16Yeah, there are a lot of parallels there.
00:09:18Yeah, and then Paul goes on to say that, you know, those who belong to Yeshua have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
00:09:25It doesn't mean that we don't have them, they just don't rule us.
00:09:29Right.
00:09:30We're supposed to be the ones in charge, not our bodily urges.
00:09:36Right, and then below that, he lists the fruits of the Spirit, which, of course, we all know also, you know, that is the opposite of all that.
00:09:44And anyway, I thought I would share that with you, that Crystal and I saw.
00:09:51Yeah, that's good.
00:09:54Putting up security for your neighbor.
00:09:57Those are actually verses one through five.
00:09:58It's hard to talk about a specific verse in here without talking about the whole section.
00:10:04Security for your neighbor is actually something that we do quite a bit today.
00:10:09It's sometimes surprising to see how the things that we do today, practices that we think are part of our modern culture, have actually been going on for thousands of years.
00:10:21You've heard of co-signing alone.
00:10:23Essentially, that's what putting up security for your neighbor is.
00:10:26Or giving your pledge for a stranger, which it doesn't really mean somebody you don't know necessarily.
00:10:32It means just, you know, somebody who's not part of your inner circle, like your family.
00:10:37And it's not even really saying that it's a good idea to put up security for somebody in your family.
00:10:42But, you know, in a culture where everything is based on the family and, you know, the basic unit of society isn't really the nuclear family, but the extended family.
00:10:53Putting up security for, you know, your brother or your cousin may be a completely different kind of thing because it's assumed that everybody in your family is responsible for all the debts of everybody in your family.
00:11:05Whereas putting up a pledge for a stranger, that could be, you know, somebody who lives down the street and isn't related to you.
00:11:14And that's just a bad idea.
00:11:17I suppose there are, you know, Proverbs is really about, it's about principles and not hard and fast commands.
00:11:24So it's not.
00:11:25Isn't there a Torah?
00:11:26Isn't there something in the Torah about loaning and lending and you can charge interest to a stranger or foreigner?
00:11:32Yeah, you can charge interest to a foreigner.
00:11:36Right.
00:11:37That's a little different than putting up security.
00:11:39In the case of putting up security, it's if the foreigner is borrowing money from somebody else and you guarantee the loan.
00:11:49It's kind of like what the federal government has done with student loans.
00:11:52So they're saying, OK, everybody, you can default on your loans and we're going to pay it for you.
00:11:55But when you put up security for somebody else, that means that if they default on the loan, you're responsible for paying.
00:12:04Right.
00:12:04That's true.
00:12:06And it does talk about being a borrower and a lender.
00:12:09And it says that if, excuse me, if a poor person near you needs to borrow money, if you've got it, you should lend it to them.
00:12:18But don't necessarily lend it expecting to get anything back.
00:12:22Right.
00:12:22And there are certain things that you shouldn't take as a pledge.
00:12:26You know, like today, people mortgage their houses and then they remortgage their houses and then do it again.
00:12:31And although we can't really own land in this country the way that God intended his people to own land in the land of Israel.
00:12:42It still seems like a really terrible thing that people can mortgage their family homes and, you know, put that as security for a loan.
00:12:51That's you know, you can borrow money to buy the house and you almost have to do that these days because who can afford to buy a house of cash?
00:12:58I know some people can't, but most people can't.
00:13:01But it's a whole nother thing to take a loan using your home as security to buy a boat or to put your kids through college or something, which, in my opinion, is mostly a waste of money anyways.
00:13:15That's your home is a pretty big deal to put on the line for something that's temporary.
00:13:21And it may not have much of a return.
00:13:24And then to do that for a stranger, like to say, if my neighbor doesn't pay his loan, he's not going to lose his house, but I might lose mine.
00:13:35You know, it says that the borrower is a slave to the lender.
00:13:39Well, if you put up security for somebody else, that makes you a slave to both of them, not just the lender, but also the borrower, because now your life is on the line for his actions and you don't have any control.
00:13:54I mean, borrowing money yourself is a risky proposition because you don't know what the future holds.
00:14:00You can make a reasonable bet and you have some control over what's going to happen in your future.
00:14:06And that's really what this whole chapter is about.
00:14:07It's about making wise decisions for your own future.
00:14:11But you have no control at all over what somebody else does that may sabotage their future.
00:14:16And then as this chapter progresses, it shows you all the bad things that somebody could do that could really mess up your life if you have put security down for somebody else.
00:14:27So what happens if that person becomes a sluggard?
00:14:31Just doesn't work.
00:14:32Decides he's not going to pay back his debts.
00:14:35Now you're on the hook.
00:14:36Or what if he steals?
00:14:39And, you know, he loses everything he's got and he can't pay his debts.
00:14:43Well, you're on the hook again.
00:14:45Or if he commits adultery and he's, you know, if we were following biblical standards, he's stoned to death.
00:14:52But somebody's still got to pay back that debt.
00:14:54And since your name is on the contract, they're going to come to you.
00:14:59So I can't, it's hard to imagine a situation in which co-signing a loan for somebody is a good idea.
00:15:09Outside of immediate family.
00:15:10And even then, most of the time, it's probably a bad idea.
00:15:12You don't want to enable people's bad lifestyle choices if you can avoid it.
00:15:20Jay, I'm curious if you have any thoughts about the, just the idea that, you know, like Paul talks about, let your yes be yes, your no be no.
00:15:31And, you know, once you go through that process and you've put yourself as security for somebody, whether they have good intentions or don't have good intentions or ultimately will pay for it or not pay for it.
00:15:47What do you think the greater principle is in this kind of situation once you've, you've basically, you've given your word or you've given a commitment?
00:16:03I think that later in this chapter, it gets into the, I think, the essence of what the problem is.
00:16:10Um, it doesn't, you know, it connects it to other topics, but God loves people who are straightforward, who mean what they say and say what they mean and don't complicate things.
00:16:24Yeshua talks when he first meets Nathanael and he says, you know, here is an Israelite indeed within whom there is no guile.
00:16:32He says, here's an Israelite indeed, because that was Jacob's character, or at least that's how Jacob was known.
00:16:40You know, we think of him as the schemer, but in, uh, um, biblically, Jacob is called, um, he's called straight, a straight man.
00:16:52And the idea behind being a straight man is being uncomplicated, that he's not trying to scheme.
00:16:59He's not trying to pull anything over on anybody.
00:17:02It's just, he keeps getting into these situations where he's got to play against people who are scheming against him.
00:17:08And so he's just dealing with them in kind, but you can compare, uh, if you put Jacob up against Laban and Nathanael against Judas, I think that makes a really good parallel.
00:17:22You know, Laban was the schemer who was always trying to trap Jacob into something, you know, maneuver him into position to get what he wanted.
00:17:29Judas was doing the same thing, not necessarily against Nathanael, but against Yeshua and all of the disciples through Yeshua, whereas Nathanael was just, he was guileless.
00:17:41He was just a straight shooter.
00:17:44And if, if you don't complicate your speech, if you're not always scheming and, you know, trying to come up with just the right spin on things, you're a whole lot less likely to fall into these traps.
00:17:56In, uh, in verse five, you know, it uses the, the metaphor of, you know, being an animal, like a wild animal trapped in a hunt by a hunter, um, or snared by a fowler.
00:18:11That's what it's like when you get involved with people.
00:18:14I mean, that's really what the situation that Jacob was in with Laban.
00:18:17Um, he got involved with somebody that probably everybody knew was a schemer.
00:18:23You know, that's, that's where God wanted him to go to find a wife.
00:18:26How he got there was God's, that's up to God.
00:18:29It's not, not our business, but in our own lives, if we know that somebody is liable to be a schemer, that they're always trying to find an angle and, um, you know, trap you with your words.
00:18:42That's a good person to avoid because the simpler you can keep your speech, the more straightforward you can make your, your agreements with other people in your life choices.
00:18:53Because the better life is going to be, the fewer traps you're going to fall into.
00:18:58I think that's, that's really the essence of let your yes be yes and your no be no.
00:19:04Negotiate when you have to, but just come to straightforward agreements and, you know, abstain from making vows and swearing oaths, because what's the point of that?
00:19:14If you're, if you've got a reputation of being an honest person who can be trusted to keep his word, why add that additional burden on yourself and create handholds for people to grab hold of and, and control your future?
00:19:29How else does this apply?
00:19:32You know, in the modern life, where are other places where this principle of, you know, being snared by the words of your mouth or, um, putting up security for somebody, where else do we see these kinds of things?
00:19:45So you could even see them in a workplace where you make a commitment that maybe you shouldn't have made, you know, or you've over obligated yourself.
00:19:57Could be saying yes to too many things, taking on too many projects, or maybe even things like non-compete and non-disclosure agreements.
00:20:07Yeah, that will get you in trouble.
00:20:08So, you know, I think when he, when it talks about, you know, taking on more, I think it's taking on somebody else's responsibilities.
00:20:18I, I, I, that is actually, and it's really important within, you know, obviously within a professional workplace, you don't take over somebody else's responsibilities.
00:20:27All too often they'll let you, and that'll be great, um, until it's not.
00:20:32But in the, within the body, there's that element too, of taking on, um, the responsibilities, the roles that God has set aside for someone else.
00:20:44And just being, again, really thoughtful and really responsible to, to do all that you are commanded to do, all that you are called to do.
00:20:54Um, but to not take on those roles that belong to someone else as well.
00:21:02Um, yeah, that's, that's an interesting point.
00:21:04I hadn't really thought of it that way.
00:21:06Um, yeah, in, in both the workplace and in ministry, if you, if you've got somebody else in your organization who is responsible for some, you know, whether like you're saying a ministry role or something.
00:21:18Um, and you start, you see that they're not doing their job, so you step in and do it for them.
00:21:27Eventually, they're just going to step back and let you do that.
00:21:31And you enable them in the process, whether it's in the workforce or the, they suddenly become, you don't realize how you're enabling them.
00:21:43And the more you do it, the more they will just assume that you will do it and not continue.
00:21:49Yeah.
00:21:50And in the workplace, you're cheating your employer and yourself, and you're letting that person work for free.
00:21:57In ministry, it's even more complicated, I think, because you're, you're robbing the other person of the opportunity to become the person that God wants them to be.
00:22:07And to fill the role that God has designed them to be, to fill.
00:22:10Yeah, absolutely.
00:22:12And then, I was going to say, and then you will feel trapped.
00:22:15You absolutely will feel trapped carrying something that you were not.
00:22:19Yeah.
00:22:19But I know from my own personal experience, if somebody is willing to step in and take over something, it is very easy to let them do that.
00:22:29You know, I don't, I don't have, I believe that I don't have a lot of good interpersonal skills.
00:22:35I don't, I don't see myself as having a lot of leadership skills.
00:22:39And so, when other people are willing to do that, I am more than willing to let them.
00:22:45I mean, unless I think they're really screwing it up, and then I might say something.
00:22:48But even then, I might let them continue.
00:22:51But I don't know if that's always appropriate.
00:22:54And it's really hard to judge that.
00:22:56And it could be that if you are the person who's seeing that somebody else is supposed to be doing a role, maybe your job there is to make sure they know what their role is.
00:23:08And make sure that they're equipped to do it, not necessarily to do it for them.
00:23:13And hold them accountable for doing it.
00:23:18But not, but through coaching and love and this, that, and the other.
00:23:22Yeah, those are good points.
00:23:24You know, something, something else that comes to mind with this first section is concerning going into, let's just say, some kind of business venture with, with other, other people.
00:23:42I think family is kind of its own thing, but going into it with a friend or just basically becoming a partner.
00:23:57And I think that, you know, the principle of not being unequally yoked, talking obviously about marriage, but I think it carries over in this regard as well.
00:24:08That at the very least, if you're going to go into, you know, some kind of serious business agreement, that there needs to be that commonality.
00:24:22And, but even, even then, between two believers, sometimes there can be, you know, difference of opinion, you know, just seeing some of the important decisions that need to be made.
00:24:38In the context of, of either starting or maintaining a business, people can just see things differently.
00:24:44And, and, and if you're, if your reputation, if you're, your wealth, everything is on the line with that business, then I think, you know, I think you just need to really make sure that, that you're like-minded enough that, that when it comes to those difficult times that you, you can find common ground.
00:25:06Yeah, without, without, without crossing the lines into, you know, the other person's territory when, you know, at least when you can discern where those lines are.
00:25:16Sometimes those lines are overlapping significantly, probably always.
00:25:24I was going to say, it's interesting, you know, one through five is instruction for me, put on me, for me, you know, don't, don't get wrapped up with someone who won't honor their debts, who won't take care of their, their, their responsibilities.
00:25:40Don't be, don't be, don't be, don't compensate for that.
00:25:44But then six through 11 is speaking directly to the person who would take advantage of someone who would be surety for them.
00:25:53It's like both sides of the coin.
00:25:55Say that last part again, about six through 11.
00:26:00Well, six through, so, so one through six, one through five is telling us, you know, be wise.
00:26:06Don't enable those who aren't trustworthy or would, you know, you'd be in bondage by supporting them or taking over.
00:26:13And then six through 11, talking about laziness, perversity, I'm talking about the slacker, the little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands, all of that.
00:26:24It's kind of the other side of the person that it's like, I know with my character that when someone says, Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to help you out.
00:26:33Like, you know, if someone were to offer me a scholarship to a women's retreat or something, my personality would be, I would jump in and I would do 5,000 things to compensate for the lack of financial investment.
00:26:45I might be capable of, I would make sure that there was some effort that, that showed, I put great value in what was being offered.
00:26:53And here six or 11 is, is kind of the personality of the person who you would co-sign for, or that you would be surety for, that has, that puts no value in your investment in them.
00:27:07So it's kind of like, you know, anyway, that's something I just.
00:27:14Yeah, that's good.
00:27:15These are all, you know, like you're, you're saying with the, you know, taking the easy way, all of these different situations are connected by that, that same theme.
00:27:27And they all affect the people around them.
00:27:30You know, the one person who is taking the easy way by not doing what they're supposed to be doing is creating a burden for the people around them.
00:27:38And if those people do step in, they may be fixing one problem, but creating another one.
00:27:45Six through 11 is talking about the sluggard.
00:27:49It is really easy.
00:27:51You know, for the last few years, it's been pretty easy to point fingers at generations of people and say, you people are a bunch of lazy.
00:27:58You know, I, I've, I've been used, known to use the term, the easy button generation.
00:28:03It's not really fair to the entire generation because not all people in whatever age group that I'm not specifying.
00:28:10They're not all like that.
00:28:12And their world is quite a bit different than ours was.
00:28:17The ant is a curious example to be using because the ant doesn't really have any thoughts of its own.
00:28:25It's just doing things.
00:28:27And when you think about.
00:28:30The ant does things by instinct.
00:28:32You know, they are self-organizing.
00:28:34You know, nobody is giving orders.
00:28:35They are communicating at some level that nobody's saying, OK, you go do this and you go do that.
00:28:40But they're all essentially genetically programmed.
00:28:43I mean, even if they all have the same genes or the same basic genome.
00:28:48They're the way that each ant develops in.
00:28:52The hive or mound or whatever you want to call it programs this specific individual for a particular role.
00:28:58And that ant has no choices.
00:29:02It does what it does because that's what is required.
00:29:05And that's what God told it to do.
00:29:08Essentially, God is the chief and the director.
00:29:11And so what complicates it for us is that our role in creation is so much higher than the ant that we have to have all of these extra capabilities.
00:29:20We have to be able to say no.
00:29:22And we have to be able to make choices that ants don't really have.
00:29:26They don't have a need to make choices.
00:29:28They just follow.
00:29:30They follow the sense and they follow the little ant dances.
00:29:33And, you know, who would ants do?
00:29:36We get to say no when when opportunities crop up.
00:29:41But what Solomon is saying here is that the ant is a very good example because at some level we usually always know.
00:29:49At least what direction we should be going.
00:29:52We always have a good idea in every specific situation that this choice is better than that choice.
00:29:58But we find ways to pick the wrong one.
00:30:02It makes me think of working in unity within your purpose, within his purpose, being in like mind.
00:30:10Yeah, it is.
00:30:11It is really important that we are all working in cooperation.
00:30:15Just had a conversation with somebody last night about that.
00:30:18You know, we have all these these Torah groups that have spontaneously just sprung up all over the world.
00:30:27And there's a lot of chaos.
00:30:29And it it becomes important for local groups to work together in tandem with each other.
00:30:37You know, we've kind of set up a system here.
00:30:39You know, we call it the Central Texas Torah community.
00:30:41But we really have I mean, we're spread out over almost 200 miles.
00:30:46What I'm hoping we're developing is a a network of communities that are cross pollinating and keeping each other in alignment and all headed the same direction.
00:30:57Rather than just the Wild West, where every individual is doing his own thing.
00:31:03You look at the ants.
00:31:05They if every ant was on its own mission, they would all die out in a couple of days because nobody would get fed.
00:31:13You know, it's one person, one individual's job to end to the to the babies.
00:31:18It's another individual's job to make the babies.
00:31:21Another individual's job to protect the colony.
00:31:24And, you know, on and on and on.
00:31:27And if they all decided they were just going to.
00:31:29Well, I don't want to do that.
00:31:31I want to go and explore over here.
00:31:33Well, now you've got invaders and, you know.
00:31:37The the next generation is starving because one person decided they didn't want to follow the plan.
00:31:44And so it is important that we make those decisions that that act in cooperation with each other, that keep the entire community moving in the same direction.
00:31:54And that takes that takes a lot of conscious effort.
00:31:57It takes a lot more effort on our part than it does for an ant.
00:32:01But that's part of the reason that we study God's word, that we study Torah and the Proverbs and do it over and over and over.
00:32:09So that these things do become habitual and instinctive.
00:32:13So we don't have to think so much about it when we're confronted with a choice, a choice of whether we're going to do this action that might cause division in our community or this action that will cause people to come together.
00:32:27Well, you know, depending on, you know, a number of factors, the choice becomes clearer the more we understand the heart and the intent of God.
00:32:39Unlike the ant, unlike the ant, who just.
00:32:42They don't have to think about it.
00:32:45That intent is built into their genes.
00:32:49It is certainly also kind of looked at it as even our walk on this journey, that if we find ourselves being.
00:32:57It's sluggish.
00:33:01So the, you know, setting his word, living this walking, this journey takes work.
00:33:08It is work, you know, keeping his Torah, not bad work, but it is work.
00:33:14And if you become lazy, you know, and things like that, then your journey comes to a halt, kind of.
00:33:24And, you know, you just, you know, you can then fall off that path, wander off that path, because the journey is continuously.
00:33:39You have to work continuously on this journey, because every day you learn something new about Yeshua and Yahweh in our kingdom.
00:33:48Yeah, you'll never see an ant sitting still, unless there's something wrong with it.
00:33:55I think one thing that's important is that you said something about, you know, the ant or the grasshopper or whatever.
00:34:00The difference, aren't the differences between ants and grasshoppers, other than, you know, whatever, the obvious one.
00:34:05Is that ants work within community.
00:34:12They don't work by themselves.
00:34:14An ant by itself is just lost.
00:34:17And I know that is a battle that is fought often by people within this particular movement, especially.
00:34:28Because, you know, we've talked about, you know, the central Texas tour community is spread out so far.
00:34:37And that's true.
00:34:40We have to work a lot harder to make sure that there's community.
00:34:44We have to be willing to sacrifice and drive further distances and invest in each other with a lot more exertion than if you're right next door and you have a building and everything's kind of laid out for you.
00:34:54And I think that's really, really important, you know, that I think part of this conversation is that a lazy person can do that all by themselves.
00:35:07But someone who is going to be a productive and constructive, contributing human will have to do that within community.
00:35:16Otherwise, it doesn't matter.
00:35:18It doesn't matter how hard you work or all this kind of stuff if it's outside of community, because what's the purpose?
00:35:26Yeah.
00:35:27You're just investing in yourself.
00:35:28And that's not what the kingdom is about.
00:35:29Yeah, I wonder if, you know, for some people, that's probably a feature of being a loner is that you don't matter, you know, trying to keep their heads down, not not impact the world.
00:35:42So, but I think most people really do want to have some kind of impact on the world.
00:35:49They want to leave some kind of legacy behind in, if you're just doing your own thing out in the wilderness, how can you leave anything behind if you're not, if you're not having an impact on the people around you, because there is nobody around you.
00:36:04Well, it also brings up the parable of the talents.
00:36:11You know, you can look at the talents as people that come into your life, and you are to be a light to them and help them grow and help them.
00:36:21And if you are a hermit, you're not going to, you're always not going to put those people in your life to help them and to grow them, help them on their journey.
00:36:32And therefore, you're burying your talent.
00:36:35That's a really good point, Randy.
00:36:36In verses one through five, there was, it closed with some instructions on how to escape, you know, this, this problem that you've gotten yourself into, you know, you're, you've agreed to something you didn't mean to, or you pledged something that you shouldn't have.
00:36:54It gave, it gives you an out saying, what you need to do is you need to go to the person to whom you're obligated and get released from that.
00:37:02And don't rest until, until they release you, you know, whatever it takes.
00:37:10And verses six through 11, it doesn't give you any real instructions on how to get out of it.
00:37:17But it does, I mean, it doesn't give you any explicit instructions.
00:37:22But the, the solution is there in the problem.
00:37:25So in these first two, it gives you, here's the problem that you created by your bad choices.
00:37:34There's a way out of this.
00:37:35This isn't the end of the world.
00:37:36If you decide to act, you just have to act before it's too late.
00:37:42And with the lazy person, it's impossible to know when it's going to be too late.
00:37:47You know, frequently we're lazy because we're just procrastinating.
00:37:52The, the deadline isn't close enough.
00:37:54So it's not real enough.
00:37:56We know that bad things are going to happen if we don't act, but not today, not tomorrow until it is today, because it just sneaks up on you.
00:38:06The solution is to get up, get up out of bed, go, whatever it is that you're supposed to be doing, go do it.
00:38:13And the solution is very straightforward.
00:38:15It's not complicated.
00:38:16It can be very difficult to do, but it's not complicated.
00:38:21In the next two sections, we've got, there's another kind of problem.
00:38:26These are problems that once you're in it, there may not be a way out.
00:38:31Once you've made that decision, it could be too late.
00:38:34So it's a different kind of problem.
00:38:37Moving on to verses 12 through 19.
00:38:41A worthless person, a wicked man, with crooked speech.
00:38:46These are devious people.
00:38:49People who are out to cause problems, who love to stir up trouble.
00:38:54The Facebook and the internet is full of them.
00:39:00Trolls, essential.
00:39:01But there are a lot of things that you can say or do, you know, you can, you can scheme and may not cause yourself too much of a problem.
00:39:12If you, as long as it's not a serious thing, but eventually you scheme against the wrong person or you, you forget to cover all your bases.
00:39:22And now you're trapped and there's no way out because you have offended or crossed the wrong person.
00:39:28And it's worse than that because God says he hates it when people behave like this.
00:39:36Now, the wording here says that in verse 19, the wording is saying that God hates the false witness and the one who sows discord.
00:39:46I think, but first off, let's, let's talk about what hate means.
00:39:51What do you, what, what does that word mean to you?
00:39:55The hate just makes me think that, um, in this context that he's, he's in absolute opposition to those things.
00:40:03Or they are in essence, the opposite of his nature and, and, and, and his kingdom.
00:40:12So there's no room for that, that kind of behavior, uh, around him or in, in relation to him.
00:40:21So, well, to me, hate is just something that you totally despise and you don't want to be around or a part of, you know, if you hate something, you don't want.
00:40:33To have it in your life or partake of it or, you know, don't have it even in your area type thing.
00:40:43If you hate something and if you hate a person, you know, it's that they're, they're so evil that, you know, you just, you just don't want them in your life.
00:40:55I think of it a little less than a, not quite such an emotional response as, um, just more, this is someone who is the opposite who you are.
00:41:09I mean, if you take the six things that God hates, you know, the abomination is six, seven abominations and you flip them around.
00:41:17So if he hates haughty eyes, which is a proud look or that, that pride, but he loves the humble.
00:41:24So it's those who are like him are the opposite of those who he hates.
00:41:32That's kind of what Brian was saying about the opposition kind of being, you know, that which is an absolute opposition because for me, if I put it solely on, you know, my own visceral response or emotional response to it, there are things that I have tolerated in my life.
00:41:51That I should hate that as I've grown in my walk and understanding of scripture and my relationship with the Lord, I'll put that to the side because I realized it is an opposition to the direction that he's given me.
00:42:06Even if I might still have some sort of an emotional attachment.
00:42:10And I think of, you know, one of the simpler things that for a lot of people is keeping the feast instead of Christmas and Easter.
00:42:16So you have this thing that you have an emotional affinity for, but the expression of it as a pagan ritual is in opposition to the way that God has commanded us to live and to follow him.
00:42:29Does that make sense?
00:42:30Yeah.
00:42:31Yeah, that makes sense.
00:42:32And I think, I think all of those.
00:42:33I'm not saying you shouldn't have an emotional response to it, but, but for me, it's like, I tend to not obviously go quickly to the emotional part of it.
00:42:45But that's just kind of what I was thinking.
00:42:47Well, I think, you know, an emotional response can be part of it.
00:42:52You know, that, that visceral disgust, the despising of something that's, that's, that's part of what it means to hate something.
00:42:58I think, you know, in, in our modern English, we think of hate as like, I've got this really strong emotional opposition to something, you know, I, I really don't like that thing.
00:43:10And that may be part of what the scriptures mean when it talks about hate.
00:43:15But I think all of what you're saying, what all three of you are saying is also part of it.
00:43:21You know, it's something that is, that's opposed to you, something that, that is in, that has enmity.
00:43:27Like some, if somebody wants to do you harm, that means they hate you.
00:43:31They want bad things for you.
00:43:32Even if that means that they don't necessarily have any emotional attachment to doing wrong to you.
00:43:39It's not like, it's not like they despise you so much.
00:43:41It's just that you're in the way of what they want.
00:43:43So they have to do bad things to you in order to get what they want.
00:43:47So they hate you because you've got something they need or want, or you're in their way.
00:43:52So they are treating you hatefully.
00:43:54Um, but then there are things where God says, uh, that certain things disgust him, you know, certain behaviors in, um, treatments of, of ant people and animals.
00:44:10God finds disgusting and he wants us to be disgusted by them too.
00:44:14So this is an element of hate.
00:44:17Then there's, you look at Jacob and Esau, you know, Jacob, I love, but Esau, I hated.
00:44:21It's not that God wanted to do harm to Esau.
00:44:24It's just that Esau was that one who was in opposition.
00:44:27He was not doing what God wanted and actually wanted the opposite of what God wanted.
00:44:32So I think all of those things are true.
00:44:34So here, when it says that these are things in people that God hates, it's not that God has this visceral disgust for those people.
00:44:42He may or may not.
00:44:44I don't know, but that's not really the point.
00:44:46The point is that they are behaving in a way that God finds despicable.
00:44:51These behaviors are the opposite of how God behaves and how he wants his people to behave because he wants them to emulate him.
00:44:59I think there's a distinction between the, the hating of something and the action that comes after.
00:45:06And that's where, you know, when, when he, the, when the Lord says the vengeance is mine, right?
00:45:12So this thing that I hate, this person that's been wrong to this, this perversion of my order needs to be halted consequences, meted out all of that.
00:45:24So that that's his prop.
00:45:26That's his purview, but he wants us to hate the things which he hates, but that doesn't mean that he has then given us the freedom to judge it the way he has judged.
00:45:40I'm not trying to be weird and obnoxious about it, but because I know there's a lot of liberal places that can go and, um, and that's not what I'm saying.
00:45:50I'm just saying that it, it takes that.
00:45:52But if I see this thing that is being done, that is in opposition to God's nature, I don't want to have any part of that.
00:46:01Right.
00:46:01That doesn't necessarily.
00:46:04Yeah.
00:46:04It doesn't mean you have to be mean to people who are behaving that way.
00:46:07Right.
00:46:07Well, yeah.
00:46:07Like arbitrarily give me the right to now punish everyone who behaves in a way that I think is inappropriate or even ways that I know are sinful and grotesque.
00:46:18Yeah.
00:46:18And, um.
00:46:19Love them from afar, right?
00:46:22Absolutely.
00:46:23And there are people who, who love to take God's commandments and use those things as an excuse to be hateful to people.
00:46:32In verse, uh, verse 14, with perverted heart devises evil.
00:46:39Or, uh, there's the other one I was looking for, um, the feet that make haste to run to evil.
00:46:48Evil is another one of those words that, that can give us the wrong idea.
00:46:52In our English usage, it doesn't, evil doesn't mean, you know, ultimate evil, like it's Satan.
00:46:58Satan is evil, but evil is not necessarily Satan.
00:47:03Evil really just means something that's, that's harmful or unpleasant.
00:47:07So God does evil to people because he does things that hurts them.
00:47:11And sometimes he does that because he wants to destroy them or, or correct them.
00:47:16Sometimes he does it because he's trying to make room for something else.
00:47:23Um, and it's not necessarily a punishment, but it's certainly unpleasant for those people.
00:47:27So, you know, a tornado is evil because it does damage and it's, it's unpleasant.
00:47:33Um, but there are people who love to do harm, who want to create problems for other people.
00:47:39And some, they frequently use God's name to do that.
00:47:43And that's not just a violation of the commandment to love your brother or your love, your neighbor.
00:47:48It's a violation of the commandment against using God's name in vain because they're saying,
00:47:53you know, God hates you and wants you to die because, you know, you do whatever.
00:47:59The Torah terrorist.
00:48:02Yeah.
00:48:03Some people will even make up their own rules and say, you know, God hates you because,
00:48:08I don't know, because you calculate the moon differently than I do or, you know, whatever.
00:48:15That, that probably wouldn't make sense to most Christians.
00:48:18Uh, it's like, I don't even know what you're talking about.
00:48:21What does that mean to calculate the moon?
00:48:23But, you know, in, in Hebrew roots and pronomian circles,
00:48:27we all know exactly what that means and we see it all the time.
00:48:32And that is also, also breaking that command where you should not take a add or take away from the word of Yahweh.
00:48:39So you're doing that.
00:48:41You're doing, you are doing that.
00:48:43You are taking away or adding to this word.
00:48:46Yeah.
00:48:47And I'm sure there is taking his name in vain.
00:48:50Yeah.
00:48:51And there may be a way that, that God wants people to, to, you know,
00:48:56mark the beginning of a, of a new month or, or whatever, but he didn't say what it is.
00:49:02So we just have to rely on tradition and our own reason and, you know,
00:49:06banging each other over the head because somebody else came to a different conclusion is not helpful.
00:49:12Because the next thing that God hates is someone who sows division among brothers.
00:49:16And that is a big deal to God.
00:49:21And this, you know, this, this little arrangement here is what's called a numbered parallel.
00:49:27Excuse me.
00:49:29It's not a parallelism like, you know, like we've talked about with chiasms.
00:49:34It's just a series of related statements, but a numbered parallelism means that it gives,
00:49:42you know, these are six things that God hates, seven that he despises.
00:49:47It's just a way of introducing this, this sort of structure.
00:49:49And it, the Proverbs does it a lot.
00:49:51And apparently it's pretty common in ancient Near East literature.
00:49:54It's just a poetic device, but frequently the one that's added at the end where it says,
00:50:01you know, three things I hate for are, you know, horrible.
00:50:06It's the fourth thing that is the worst.
00:50:09Frequently, that's not, not a law.
00:50:11It's just, you know, that's usually the way it's arranged.
00:50:14And in this case, it's the one who sows discord among brothers.
00:50:18That's the last one.
00:50:19So six things, God hates, seven that are an abomination to him.
00:50:25And that one is the worst.
00:50:28Jay, I was wondering, so if we say these six matters he hates,
00:50:35so the ones above that are like the thoughts of doing this.
00:50:40And then it says the seven are abominations.
00:50:43So those ones after that are actually taking action.
00:50:45I think that verses 16 through 19 are really sort of a restatement of what came before.
00:50:53And I'm not sure if, if I would categorize them that way.
00:51:00But the one that comes before really is talking about the character of the person who does the rest.
00:51:05Where it talks about, you know, a wicked person who goes around with crooked speech and winks with his eyes.
00:51:11This is, these are talking about the signs that you can recognize that person.
00:51:16So watch for these characteristics.
00:51:19The second time he actually takes the innocent blood and he's running to evil.
00:51:24So just thinking about them.
00:51:26Yeah.
00:51:27So watch for this person because he's going to do these kinds of things.
00:51:31Potentially correct.
00:51:33Good observation.
00:51:35All right.
00:51:36So you want to move into warnings against adultery?
00:51:38Well, you have two single women here with no husband.
00:51:43So unless you put it on a spiritual level of going into Babylon and getting out of her spiritual adultery, which you could apply to this.
00:51:55Sure.
00:51:55Yeah.
00:51:56You know, God makes that, that comparison, you know, frequently in the prophets and in Torah about, you know,
00:52:02he considers his relationship with Israel to be analogous to a marriage or rather marriage is analogous to his relationship with Israel.
00:52:10Right.
00:52:11And so when Israel goes around worshiping and honoring other deities, that's adultery.
00:52:19Correct.
00:52:19That's what I'm saying.
00:52:22So I look more at this when I'm reading that as, you know, how can I apply it spiritually as a widow?
00:52:33You know, I don't have to worry about the physical part.
00:52:36Yeah.
00:52:38Well, there's an interesting thing.
00:52:40I mean, it's kind of an academic point, I think, especially in this group.
00:52:44But it becomes pretty clear reading this passage that this is specifically talking about a married woman.
00:52:51Yeah.
00:52:52And this is a consistent pattern all through scripture.
00:52:55And it gets a little fuzzy when Yeshua is talking about adultery.
00:52:59And I think the problem there is that the gospel writers are writing summaries of what Yeshua said and leaving out a lot of context because they're assuming the audience is going to know the context because they've got the rest of the scriptures.
00:53:13Right.
00:53:15But in biblical usage, adultery is always with a married woman.
00:53:20So a married man who is fornicating with a single woman, that's fornication.
00:53:28It's a sin.
00:53:29She's not his wife.
00:53:31But adultery, the crime of adultery that's punishable with stoning, that is with a married woman.
00:53:37Interesting.
00:53:37I don't know if that was okay.
00:53:39You know, there are other things that happen.
00:53:42You know, if he's fornicating with some other woman, there are punishments for that depending on the circumstances.
00:53:46But the death sentence is reserved for a man who is having relationships or having relations with a woman who is married to somebody else.
00:53:57And that's why this becomes such a big deal in this passage, because, you know, it makes that comparison with the man who steals bread.
00:54:07You know, he's hungry.
00:54:08He steals some bread.
00:54:09He's not really hurting anybody.
00:54:11He's taking a little bit of somebody else's sustenance.
00:54:14But, you know, he's starving.
00:54:16He has a real physical need that needs to be met.
00:54:19So people don't really despise him for that.
00:54:21I mean, they might look down on him.
00:54:23And he's not really the victim in here.
00:54:27You know, the person that he stole the bread from, that person isn't seriously harmed.
00:54:31He's out a little bit of finances or something, you know, unless he's starving himself, in which case it becomes a bigger deal.
00:54:37But if you steal another man's wife, you are potentially destroying his life, his household, everything.
00:54:45And there's no coming back from that.
00:54:48You must really hate that other person to do that kind of thing, even if you've never met him.
00:54:53You hate him.
00:54:55Because that is hateful behavior.
00:54:59And one of the things, like, whether it's spiritually or otherwise, it's putting the woman in a position to reject the authority that's put over her, her husband.
00:55:11And as her, you know, covering as a lot of different things.
00:55:17And then basically seek, you know, be with another man in that way.
00:55:22And it's very similar to our, the commands against, like, having other gods.
00:55:27It's, it's that same illustration.
00:55:31Yeah.
00:55:31Yeah.
00:55:32He, he hates her too.
00:55:33He hates himself.
00:55:35He hates everybody.
00:55:36Yeah.
00:55:36It's definitely an abuse and a, and a using of, of her.
00:55:41Yeah.
00:55:42And it's, it really is the same, the same with a false God.
00:55:45You know, if a false God or, you know, his agents lure Israel or Israelites away to worship that other false God.
00:55:54He clearly hates Israel because just like Bilam, he's trying to create something that can destroy them.
00:56:00But he also hates God or he wouldn't, he would never have bothered in the first place.
00:56:06And he hates himself, you know, because of the situation that he's put himself in.
00:56:10I'm assuming here that the false God is actually some fallen angel that's, you know, operating under the name of a false God.
00:56:17And maybe that's going a little bit too far afield.
00:56:19I don't know.
00:56:21But yeah, I think, I think the, the comparison is, is very apt.
00:56:28It just point by point, it works.
00:56:31And there are some interesting turns of phrase in here that underscore some of what you just said, especially about the, the authority.
00:56:40Oh, here it is.
00:56:41Verses 27 and 28.
00:56:44Can a man carry fire next to his chest and his clothes not be burned?
00:56:48Now, this is talking about a man taking another man's wife.
00:56:54Taking the fire into his chest and under his clothes or in his clothes.
00:57:00The Hebrew word for clothes here is bagged.
00:57:04And it is used frequently in scripture as a metaphor for authority or an office.
00:57:08It's, it's a covering.
00:57:10And so he is destroying his own authority and his own office, so to speak, in the community by taking another man's wife and bringing it into his house, her into his house, not yet.
00:57:22He is destroying his own house, not just the other guy's house.
00:57:28And then in the next verse, you know, that one's a little bit different.
00:57:33It's, or can one walk on hot coals and his feet not be scorched?
00:57:38Feet are often used as a euphemism for sexual organs in scripture.
00:57:43Maybe not often, but there are some places where that's, where it's used that way.
00:57:48So this could be actually make, making a reference to the physical consequences of sexual promiscuity.
00:57:57I don't really know.
00:57:58That's not exactly the, what you were talking about.
00:58:00I was really going with the clothes and the covering thing there.
00:58:02Well, also, I mean, just a reference to intimate parts would, would also be an indication that like it's affecting his, his most, the most intimate parts of himself.
00:58:15Like, like it's damaging to him.
00:58:17Like, yeah, and this idea that he's taking it into his, his heart or into his bosom, depending on which translation you're, you're reading.
00:58:27These actions are our modern culture wants to, wants to treat sex like it's a, you know, just a physical thing.
00:58:34You know, this is something you do just like, you know, going out to eat.
00:58:38But it is a, a much deeper and significant action.
00:58:44And it, the idea of a man and woman, woman becoming one, you know, on a physical level, there are ways in which that's true.
00:58:54You know, they're, they make a baby that way, but there's a spiritual level.
00:58:59There are spiritual things going on in that sex act that I don't think that, that we have the capability to understand, but I don't think that they're any less real because of it.
00:59:11And people want to pretend like there are no long-term consequences to their emotional and spiritual health for sleeping around with whoever they want.
00:59:23But there, there will be, even if they don't know what it is today, even if nobody ever finds out, there will be consequences.
00:59:30Like it says in, in verse 33, he will get wounds and dishonor and his disgrace will not be wiped away.
00:59:43And that goes for her too.
00:59:45Even if they are never found out, that disgrace will always be there.
00:59:48The consequences are inevitable.
00:59:50Something bad is, is already happened and is only going to grow with time.
00:59:55Guilt is a terrible thing.
01:00:00Yeah.
01:00:01And it is a hard thing to come back from.
01:00:02On top of all the emotional mingling, yes.
01:00:08To, to your point in the, uh, the verse about, you know, the, the thing in the body was the bosom and the, um, the intimate parts, um, and the authority and, and what happens there.
01:00:22I mean, even David experienced that, you know, for his actions.
01:00:28The first son born from Bathsheba died.
01:00:33I think too, that, you know, obviously a lot of, a lot of what we struggle with in a, in a modern context, you know, is hard to, um, relate with, you know, ancient, the ancient cultures.
01:00:49Um, and, and, and there is that, you know, we, you were talking about the internet earlier and how we can have these emotional entanglements with people.
01:01:01It's not a physical entanglement with, with someone like, like here, but there is still, that is something that as women, you know, to, to be mindful of.
01:01:12And, and men to be mindful of is that we have these, these sort of esoteric emotional connections with people that we may never meet or that we see rarely, or it's just, it's just words in a, on a computer screen, but that there is still.
01:01:30So, and, and it's not, it's not, it's not the same.
01:01:34I'm not saying that it's the same as actual physical adultery, because I think there is a distinction, but there is an element of being unfaithful.
01:01:42And, and, you know, you know, uh, our two friends here that are single women, you know, that is, that is something that, that I know that they have to probably guard themselves against.
01:01:59They are lovely women.
01:02:00And I'm, I'm sure that there are men out there that are, have less character than others.
01:02:07I know, I, I know, uh, several friends of mine that are single and searching for, you know, what does that look like?
01:02:14How do I live this life?
01:02:16And finding it very complex to live in a way that is, you know, faithful to the Lord and honorable and with integrity and wanting to stay away from some of this.
01:02:29A lot of this, you know, the, so you don't end up with the guilt.
01:02:34You don't even, all that stuff.
01:02:35So, like I said, it's not the same things he's talking about here of going and pursuing a woman and taking a married woman to be his own.
01:02:44But there is still that, I don't know.
01:02:48It's just, it's a, it's a important part of, of a conversation.
01:02:53I think when I was.
01:02:59Not single.
01:03:00I found it worse to me in my heart that, um, he would share things that wasn't physical.
01:03:15It hurt more.
01:03:16There's just, there's things you don't talk about.
01:03:19Um, there's just a level of communication that you never go past.
01:03:24Mm-hmm.
01:03:25And if, you know, you, I don't know, you, you reach out to the wife and you talk to them, you give them the extra food.
01:03:36You don't go give it to the man or whatever.
01:03:38Or you don't talk to him about these things.
01:03:44Um, there's a, there's a, yeah, a level of communication that you just never, ever breach.
01:03:50Yeah, I think, I think it's good to have fences in those relationships and, you know, whether those are explicit or, or whether they're just things that you have put in place for yourself.
01:04:02Um, you know, not, not crossing certain lines, even innocent lines with other people.
01:04:10Um, it's, that's a good idea.
01:04:15And I think formalizing it for yourself, like saying, you know, these are the lines that I don't cross.
01:04:20I, yeah, good idea.
01:04:24Well, even if you're both single, sometimes the guy, and not all of them, they get the wrong ideas.
01:04:28Like, oh, she's talking to me.
01:04:30She must like me, you know, so.
01:04:34Yep, that is true.
01:04:38Yeah, the last verse in here, verse 35.
01:04:42He will accept no compensation.
01:04:43He will refuse, though you multiply gifts.
01:04:47Um, a couple of thoughts about that.
01:04:50You know, a lot of people have this idea that, you know, in, in heavily patriarchal cultures that, that men treat women like they're, like they're just cattle.
01:05:01And sometimes that's true.
01:05:04But that's not necessarily true.
01:05:05There is still love and people still care about each other.
01:05:09And that's just part of human nature.
01:05:11It always has been.
01:05:12And it doesn't really matter what, how the culture is structured.
01:05:18Husband and wives are going to love each other.
01:05:20You know, not all the time, obviously, because, you know, we all have problems.
01:05:25But I think, you know, a man who hates his wife, he might be willing to accept compensation.
01:05:31This passage or this verse is assuming that the offended husband cares about his wife and he also cares about his his honor and reputation.
01:05:41But I think, really, he cares about his wife, because in an honor shame kind of culture, he might be able to accept compensation to restore his honor.
01:05:50I don't know what that compensation would be, I don't know what that compensation would be.
01:05:54I'm sure it would be significant.
01:05:55But if he doesn't accept it.
01:05:58It's probably because he valued that relationship more than he values the other guy's stuff.
01:06:04You know, the ISR reads that he does not regard any ransom nor accept any nor accept your bribe, however great.
01:06:17I like the way that is worded.
01:06:22All right.
01:06:22Is there anything else here that we need to talk about or that anybody wants to talk about?
01:06:27No, I just love the psalm and, well, proverb, excuse me, but it lays heavily on my heart when I do see strife and divisions among,
01:06:43especially the Torah movement or whatever you want to call us, it really saddens me when I see that occurring.
01:06:54Yeah, it is.
01:06:56It is very upsetting.
01:06:56I had to leave all of those Facebook groups last year because I just couldn't stand it anymore.
01:07:04I joined a couple more of them this year, but I'm keeping my distance.
01:07:08I don't follow them, like I don't get notifications from them or anything like that.
01:07:13When I want to participate, I'll go find them.
01:07:17Well, not just in social media, but just going, well, I'll just be blunt here in this group.
01:07:23I think I can be, but I was in Cleveland, Tennessee for Sukkot, and there's three main Messianic Torah pursuant groups there.
01:07:34And the division is just unreal.
01:07:36It is so sad to see all the, and Cleveland, Tennessee is just this huge mess of brother turning against brother and sister turning against sister.
01:07:51And it's sad.
01:07:53Yeah, it's unfortunate.
01:07:54Always allowing it, I know, and I'm sure there's a purpose for it, but it still saddens my heart to see it.
01:08:01Yeah, I know when we travel, I like to look to see if there are any congregations in the area that we could visit, but I'm always a little afraid to visit them because I don't know what I'm going to find.
01:08:12I'm just always amazed at the things that people divide over.
01:08:18Yes, isn't it?
01:08:19I was talking to someone today about how here in Central Texas, you know, my husband and I, we started this community here in Bastrop area and have had the privilege of fellowshipping with Paula and Jay on a regular basis.
01:08:34But we have had to, from the very second or third time we met three and a half years ago, have had to clearly say, these are the things that matter.
01:08:46We are not fighting about this.
01:08:47And Brian has been very good at, you know, being gracious about that.
01:08:53And that's kind of become, I wouldn't say trademark, but it's just definitely become a part of the expression of our group is that we're not here to divide.
01:09:04You know, we're here to worship.
01:09:05We're here to worship.
01:09:07And, you know, but even, you know, in the last few weeks, a couple things have come up and I'm just like, okay, wait, let's get back to the basics here.
01:09:14Is that worth, is that worth fighting about?
01:09:17Probably not.
01:09:19Yeah, there was actually, I don't even remember what the topic was, but, you know, we were at our last get together at the park.
01:09:29Somebody said something and I was like, no, that's not right.
01:09:32But I was wrong.
01:09:36And they were, they were exactly right.
01:09:39Pulled up the scripture verse and it said exactly what they said it said.
01:09:42And I was like, how did, who put that there?
01:09:44So, yeah, I was, I was being dogmatic about something that I was completely wrong about.
01:09:52And just a good reminder that happens a lot.
01:09:56Yeah, I think, you know, like, one of the things that probably has also helped in the Central Texas community is that a lot of people have come out of either church splits or been in situations where there was a lot of division.
01:10:17And, or even have been rejected by a church once they kind of started following the commandments.
01:10:29And, and I think there, for a lot of people, once you come to that place, you know, you realize, like, for example, you could start another church, start another denomination, start another whatever.
01:10:46Or, or you could recognize that, like, you know, we're all imperfect and, and none of us are going to agree a hundred percent on everything.
01:10:53So, so what's the business that we should go about, you know, focusing on?
01:10:58Um, and I'm starting to, like, I've said this a lot in the last few days, and I know you're going to get sick of hearing me say it, but that thing, my, you know, I say that my mom told me, I'm like, Yeshua should have said this.
01:11:10Um, because I think it's fitting, you know, the, the saying, wherever you go, there you are.
01:11:18It's like, if, if we just started saying that to people who were being really divisive, it's like, you know, it might really be, it's that, that log in your eye thing.
01:11:29It's like, what's happening here.
01:11:30Um, but it is, it, I think it is to some extent, a sign of maturity when people can refocus, you know, like kind of like a toddler, it's hard to refocus a toddler's attention to some extent when they get in a tantrum or in a fit.
01:11:48Um, but you know, there's some, with maturity, you can sort of do that.
01:11:55And I think, I think that's a big part of what we're, we're called to do is to overcome that, those basic instincts to just kind of do whatever feels right or band together with people who agree with us and ignore or separate or divide from people who don't, who aren't exactly like us.
01:12:18And, um, I, I find, I have found that, you know, at least for our participation in community that we have had much more joy and much more, um, learning that has come from interacting with people who don't agree with us a hundred percent.
01:12:43Um, like we, we, we, we get to see new perspectives doesn't mean that it's always going to change our perspective, but it is an important part of iron sharpening iron or whatever, however you want to put that it's, it's really an important part of our growth.
01:13:00And if you start dividing over a lot of these things, you don't get that opportunity.
01:13:05You just, you're a bunch of rocks, you know, and you keep, you don't get sharp.
01:13:10You know, I think I want to add this to about the contentious brother is that not everyone who's contentious knows they're contentious.
01:13:20And, and so I was talking to somebody recently about how people that have, you know, have come into Torah who have come into observing the feasts and they see this whole paradigm of life where they've been lied to, they've been misled.
01:13:34And, and the temptation is to be really angry about that deception.
01:13:38And, and I think there's a place for that.
01:13:40I mean, we need to focus that anger where it belongs and not, you know, like talking about the things that God hates that we don't then have a, we can't like a burn down the church that lied to us.
01:13:53We just, you know, still need to respond wisely, but that, that there is a difference between those who come out and then they want the truth and they want absolutes and they want to have all of the truth in this nice, tidy package that they can own.
01:14:10And then they can show it to everybody that they're right.
01:14:12And I think that is, I think that's different than someone who just likes to make trouble.
01:14:20Someone who is, is sowing discord and strife and contention that, that word there, you know, a person who stirs up conflict in the community is, is another translation.
01:14:32That word there is, is the same word used for the contentious woman in Proverbs 21, 19.
01:14:37That's better to live on the corner of a roof than the contentious woman.
01:14:40And that's not someone who's just accidentally contrary.
01:14:45That's someone who lives a lifestyle of discord and strife.
01:14:50And, and it may take time to know the difference.
01:14:53And, you know, to have the, like Paul was talking about the maturity, having the maturity to recognize that someone within your community might just be on fire and lit up because they found truth.
01:15:09And they don't want to settle for anything less ever.
01:15:12And they think that what they know is the beginning, the alpha and omega of all truth.
01:15:17And now everybody has to know it.
01:15:19And so they just need mentorship and guidance and direction and a safe space to burn hot, you know, versus someone who is.
01:15:29It's just there to make trouble because it's funny or it feels good or.
01:15:35Yeah.
01:15:36Well, there's, there's a third category there to, you know, people who are drawn to the fringes and to controversy and they are totally convinced in their minds that they are just seeking the truth.
01:15:49But really, they're just chasing after whatever it is that's going to make them feel special.
01:15:54It's going to make them feel a little bit more holy than, you know, everybody else who doesn't know this new truth that they've cornered.
01:16:03And they may not be intentionally divisive, but it's just the nature of their character of always trying, you know, always grabbing that next shiny object is inherently divisive.
01:16:19Otherwise, though, I agree with what you're saying that, you know, not everybody is is intending to cause a problem.
01:16:26They're just zealous.
01:16:30Well, I mean, you know, I have two sons.
01:16:33One of them is a peacemaker and one of them is not.
01:16:40And of course, I love both of them.
01:16:44And sometimes the one who is a peacemaker wants peace no matter what.
01:16:48And the other one that is not opposed to conflict thinks that stirring the pot is the best way to get the best possible result.
01:16:57And maturity will hopefully prayerfully will teach them that the father will lead them and guide them and they will grow into an understanding of, you know, how each of those characteristics can be strengths in their life and not destructive.
01:17:12But it's a lack of maturity that makes those things unhealthy often.
01:17:22And so it's knowing knowing the difference between that and then just then.
01:17:26There have been days when I tell Brian I'm spicy today and you don't want to talk to me because I just want to have a fight.
01:17:33And so that's I have I know within me, I have the potential to be contentious.
01:17:40And that's not immaturity.
01:17:42That's just being human.
01:17:45It's just whether I choose to live it.
01:17:46But anyway, that was.
01:17:49I know a teacher that I mean, I've never met him in person, but I know people who have and I interact with him on social media all the time.
01:17:58Who holds some what I feel are pretty outlandish ideas.
01:18:03But he is at heart a peacemaker.
01:18:06And he is very gentle.
01:18:08He never forces his ideas on people.
01:18:12He's seems like just he loves God, loves people.
01:18:16And he's just trying to do the right thing.
01:18:18And, you know, he's got a teaching ministry and he has a congregation like in Alabama, I think.
01:18:26Just seems like an overall great guy.
01:18:28But I can't recommend his teachings to anybody because these these issues are really, really big.
01:18:35And although I think, you know, listening to what you're saying just now, I think that those people who get really zealous over fringe ideas.
01:18:45Maybe he's someone I should recommend to them.
01:18:49Like, you should you should go connect with this guy because, you know, I'm not going to talk you out of whatever it is you're into.
01:18:56But at least this guy can maybe steer you into a healthier way to practice whatever this is.
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