Today another Pakistani rape gang was convicted.Seven men have been found guilty of grooming abuse offences against two teenage girls in Rochdale between 2001 and 2006.They are getting named and shamed: Mohammed Zahid, Naheem Akram, Mohammed Shahzad, Nisar Hussain, Roheez Khan, Mushtaq Ahmed, Kasir Bashir.The girls were abused in alleyways, warehouses, taxis, in filthy houses, on rank mattresses, in damp basements.Four of these men — Zahid, Bashir, Ahmed, Khan — were born in Pakistan. Should they be deported immediately?A new report, the National Audit on Group-Based Child Sexual Exploitation and Abuse, is due out next week.According to The Sun Newspaper it apparently specifically links illegal immigration violence against vulnerable girls.The Home office said: “Nothing is more important than protecting vulnerable children, and we are determined to crack down on vile grooming gangs once and for all. “That’s why we ordered a rapid national audit to uncover the true scale of this horrific abuse. This report – alongside our response – will be published shortly.”But I think they fear civil unrest more than they fear young, British girls being abused by foreign men.
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00:00Today, another Pakistani rape gang was convicted.
00:03Seven men, there they are, seven men have been found guilty of grooming abuse offences
00:08against two teenage girls in Rochdale between 2001 and 2006.
00:14They are getting named and shamed, okay?
00:16We've got Mohammed Zahid, Naheem Akram, Mohammed Shahzad, Nisar Hussein, Rohiz Khan,
00:23Mushtak Ahmed and Qasir Bashir.
00:26The girls were abused in alleyways, warehouses, taxis, filthy houses,
00:31rank mattresses, damp basements, it's horrific.
00:34Our reporter Charlie Peters was at the particular case.
00:37He says that the evidence was some of the worst he'd ever heard.
00:39Four of these men, though, four of these men, Zahid, Bashir, Ahmed and Khan,
00:44were born in Pakistan.
00:46So they are Pakistani.
00:48They came to Britain and then they committed this kind of abuse.
00:52Should they be deported, do you think?
00:53Yes, we did.
00:55Without a shadow of a doubt.
00:56Without a shadow of a doubt.
00:57Without a shadow of a doubt.
00:57It's common sense.
00:58It's common sense.
01:00Well, just before I came on air, this news broke.
01:04A new report from the National Audit on Group-Based Child Sexual Exploitation and Abuse.
01:08It's a big report, this.
01:09It's due out next week.
01:11Well, the Sun newspaper claims that they've had advanced sight of this report
01:14and they say that this report, it's the first one of its kind, specifically links illegal immigration to violence against vulnerable girls.
01:24OK?
01:24Now, apparently, the government is afraid of this report because of stuff like this.
01:30So the Home Office has said, oh, well, look, hey, nothing is more important than protecting vulnerable children.
01:43And we are determined to crack down on vile grooming gangs once and for all.
01:46That's why we ordered a rapid national audit to uncover the true scale of the horrific abuse.
01:51This report, alongside our response, will be published shortly.
01:56But let's be honest, they're terrified of civil unrest, aren't they?
01:58They're absolutely terrified of it.
02:00And I think that they fear civil unrest more than they fear young British girls being abused by foreign men.
02:07Let's get the views of my panel.
02:09I don't know if anyone in the audience wants to make any points on this as well.
02:11But, Adam, I'll start with you again.
02:14So, we are waiting for confirmation as to whether or not they're going to deport these men.
02:18This is an easy win for the government.
02:20There's four Pakistani men there who were born in Pakistan.
02:23Get them gone, surely.
02:24If they're not deported, then I believe there could be trouble on the streets of this country.
02:28It is a tinderbox out there.
02:30I'm a father of two girls.
02:31Stories like this infuriate me and anger me more than most.
02:35These monsters are disproportionately more likely to be involved in the sexual grooming and raping of children.
02:43Pakistani men are four to five times more likely to be involved in this.
02:48We have a serious problem in this country.
02:51And the only deterrent now is hard justice.
02:53And that hard justice needs to be imprisonment for those that are born here and deportation for those that weren't.
03:01Adam, stop being so far right.
03:02Honestly, you really are.
03:04You go so far right.
03:05But that is what is going to be said.
03:07I mean, that's the problem.
03:08And actually, this is all linked.
03:10Because what we're seeing in Northern Ireland, what we're seeing in what we saw in Southport, this is people who were wrong, by the way.
03:18Rioting is always wrong.
03:19But these are people who are absolutely sick to the back teeth of nothing being done.
03:26And fair play, because actually the detective superintendent in charge of this said that the force should have done more at the time.
03:33Because these girls were dismissed.
03:35They were under the care of children's services in Rochdale as well and weren't properly looked after.
03:41Just very quickly, I spoke to Maggie Oliver today.
03:43Yep.
03:43She's the whistleblowing detective from Rochdale, who now has the Maggie Oliver Foundation.
03:52My God, she thinks the sun shines out of you because of the money you raised for her, which was amazing.
03:56Well, it wasn't everyone.
03:57It was everyone.
03:58That's amazing.
04:00I say your name, I'll get a diatribe of praise for you.
04:03But she is so crestfallen by all of this.
04:07And do you know there are seven more trials to come?
04:10Right.
04:10Which are linked to all of this.
04:12So, I mean, this is why we get unrest.
04:15This is why we end up with all of this.
04:18Bill, do you think some of the things that Adam said there were a bit too far?
04:22Or what do you reckon?
04:24I very strongly welcome the guilty verdicts that have come out today.
04:29When you read some of the detail of this case, that 13-year-old girls in children's homes,
04:34children's homes and the officials knew they were going off with men in their 50s and 60s and they didn't report it, it beggars belief.
04:45And it needs to be tackled.
04:47The fact that the government is bringing in changes to make it a criminal offence to cover up any report of child sexual abuse is hugely important.
04:55The review that you're referring to, as I understand it, is the Louise Casey review.
05:00An audit to uncover the scale of the grooming gangs and their ethnicity.
05:06Louise Casey takes no prisoners.
05:08Yeah.
05:08And I think it is very likely that part of the outcome of that is going to be deportation.
05:14And the Immigration White Paper made it easier to deport.
05:17But we've been trying to deport two other Rochdale grooming gang convicts for a while.
05:24We've got Adil Khan and Abdul Khwari Ralph, who we've been trying to deport for longer than 13 years.
05:30It's been absolutely...
05:31So, there they are.
05:32And what they did was, they realised that they were up for deportation and between them and their crafty lawyers decided to shred their Pakistani passports.
05:40Which means that technically, if we deported them, we'd make them stateless.
05:43Well, I don't really think anyone cares about that.
05:44One of them works as a food delivery driver now in the local area.
05:48So, if you order food, one of his victims orders food in that area, he might knock on her door and deliver it to her.
05:54It's mental.
05:55And, you know, if the government really is, Miriam, afraid of all civil unrest, maybe they should care more about the actual problem.
06:03Well, absolutely.
06:04And it's understandable how angry people are.
06:06I mean, it's just an astonishing case.
06:08And when you read the detail and you think about what actually was endured by those children for so many years,
06:13and the fact that because they were so vulnerable, they were in children's homes, they didn't have parents, they didn't have anyone to advocate them.
06:19Some of them didn't even realise that what was happening to them was out of the ordinary.
06:23Maybe they didn't report it. And, of course, they would have been too afraid to do so anyway.
06:26I think it just begs so many questions about our society, not just the cowardice about covering up things in case they seem racist,
06:33but also how we can abandon this many children and have this attitude, well, if they've chosen that lifestyle, then we won't report it,
06:40which is just shocking. There's so many layers of wrong.
06:43But I think underneath it all, it does prove that culture matters.
06:47And if you're part of a culture that doesn't think white girls, for example, have any value, then are we surprised?
06:53I think it's racist. I think what's racist here is the abuse.
06:57These actually should have been tried as hate crimes.
06:59Stats cannot be racist.
07:01And the reason that the Labour government do not want a full inquiry into this, let's be honest,
07:05is because the Labour Party are up to this in their necks.
07:09From councillors to politicians, Labour is rotten to the core with the grooming gang stand-off.
07:14Adam, that's a lie, it's smear and abuse.
07:17This Labour government...
07:18What, Labour councillors and that weren't involved in this, Bill, no?
07:21You've had a say, let me have my say.
07:22What, Labour councillors weren't involved in it, Bill, no?
07:24This Labour government is gripping the problem...
07:27Answer me, Bill.
07:28I'm answering you.
07:28Labour councillors weren't involved, no?
07:30I'm answering you.
07:31This Labour government is gripping the problem and making change happen in a way the previous Conservative government did not.
07:37They're blocking a national inquiry, Bill.
07:38Keir Starmer, when he was Director of Public Prosecutions, and you listen to Andrew Norfolk, who's sick...
07:44The Times journalist...
07:45He fouled at his job.
07:46Can you let me make a point?
07:48Andrew Norfolk, who's recently died, the Times journalist who exposed the grooming gang scandal,
07:53credits Keir Starmer of recognising there was a major problem, changing the prosecutorial rules so that action should be taken.
08:01Why was it still covered up? Why did it still go on, Bill? That is absolute nonsense. They're up to this in their neck.
08:06We're ten months in power, and we've ordered a complete audit of the scale of the problem.
08:11And you've pushed back on a national inquiry.
08:13Yeah, because a national inquiry would cost over £10 million and take ten years.
08:17Money well spent.
08:18Money well spent.
08:19In this room, do people feel as though the Labour government is handling the issue of the Pakistani rape gangs well?
08:25No.
08:26No.
08:26Right, OK.
08:27I must be far right again then, Bill, because all these people agree with me.
08:32All right.