Lancashire County Council leader Stephen Atkinson spoke to local democracy reporter Paul Faulkner - after a visit to the authority by Reform UK leader Nigel Farage - about the party's controversial DOGE savings plans.
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00:00County Councillor Atkinson, you've hosted Nigel Farage here today at County Hall.
00:04That must be a bit of a pinch me moment considering where you came from,
00:08well where you were just three months ago, the Conservative leader of Ribble Valley.
00:12Absolutely amazing.
00:14You've seen yourself, the energy that he brings, the focus, the way he energises the troops.
00:21I mean I actually think he's an amazing politician,
00:25probably the greatest one we've had in the last 30 years.
00:28And I think if he gets into power we're going to see great things for this country.
00:33I actually asked him whether his heart was really in places like Lancashire County Council
00:37or did he see it as a means to an end to the national,
00:41or a greater presence on the national stage than he already has.
00:45Do you get the sense that that's what's going on here
00:47or do you believe that reform really is trying to establish itself in local government
00:51for reasons other than trying to advance Nigel Farage's career?
00:56Absolutely it's committed to local government.
00:58What they've achieved with these 450 branches and local associations
01:03have allowed us to win these ten councils and be the majority party in three others.
01:11And I think the local government is a great training ground for political parties
01:15in terms of allowing people to understand the processes and the separation of powers etc.
01:20So I think, yeah, I think local government is really important to reform.
01:25It'll be the base that supports the party.
01:29You had your cabinet assembled to greet Mr Farage.
01:33Are you proud of the team?
01:34You have assembled because, I mean, a lot of them have not got any council experience.
01:38Fantastic team.
01:39These are people that have deep knowledge and care deeply about what happens in their portfolios.
01:44I actually think that it's the strongest team I've ever been involved in.
01:51Do you think it's stronger for them not having a political background?
01:56I think their life experiences, their skill sets and the enthusiasm.
02:02I think they all come together to make a formidable team.
02:06Nigel Farage confirmed that Doge, as it's called, coming into County Hall next week.
02:12Last week at Cabinet there was an official report of the council going through about an efficiency review.
02:17Are they two separate processes in your mind?
02:19I think they can work together, but there has to be a, obviously we seek advice and support from our national party, which is what Doge is.
02:30Well, like any party would, whether it was the Labour Party or the Conservatives.
02:33And then we have to govern the council separately to that.
02:38And I think what we've got to do is take the best of Doge and take the best of the council and bring them together so that we can deliver more money to frontline services.
02:50And that's what this is all about in the end.
02:53How will Doge feed into that efficiency review?
02:56Will there be some kind of bulwark?
02:57Because it wouldn't be right for a party political appointed team to be striding through County Hall when there hasn't been a council decision to approve that, would there?
03:06Yeah, well, that's the scoping meeting next week is to set out all of those issues around data protection, et cetera, and to find a route that respects the council's constitution and how it operates, as well as using the benefits of the skill set within the Doge.
03:25There were £103 million worth of savings already identified or identified as being needed by the previous Conservative administration over the course of the next two years.
03:35Now, that's just to balance the books.
03:37You're not going to be able to go beyond that, are you, to reinvest, as you say, in services.
03:41It's just going to be a matter of balancing the books.
03:44That is our biggest priority, is to make sure we have a balanced budget.
03:48Because if we don't, we lose control of the council.
03:51Commissioners come in, stop all discretionary services, and Lancashire residents don't want that.
03:55But what I do think is, is there's some things we can improve upon, such as procurement.
04:02Tier 1, we're really against Tier 1 contractors, who basically take overhead and profit and then subcontract the work to other companies.
04:10And we may need some resources in procurement to allow us to have more direct relationships with local companies, with companies that bring money into the local economy.
04:21So I think we've got to, I mean, that would all be within the procurement rules.
04:26But I do think we've got to look carefully at procurement.
04:28I think there's big opportunities there.
04:30You obviously need to identify savings within the individual services.
04:35Your adult services cabinet members said there was a £23 million savings target, I think, for adult services over the course of the next year.
04:42He seemed very confident that that would be hit.
04:46There was a £34 million savings target last year, and only £3 million of it was hit.
04:50It's not as easy as reformed politicians are trying to make out, is it?
04:55Well, those savings plans were set by the previous administration.
04:58So you're right, we don't know how achievable they are, because they weren't our decision.
05:06And I made that very clear through the campaign, that we had real concerns that the £50 million that should have been saved last year has been rolled over into £103 million saving over the next two years.
05:18But we've only been in post, in an executive level, for three weeks.
05:21So give us a bit of time, Paul, and we'll come back to you, and we'll tell you how we're going to do it.
05:25What kind of time frame are you looking at in terms of when you'll be able to set out a medium-term plan?
05:32Well, probably towards the autumn, we will have done the detailed work by then, and that gives us plenty of time to do in-year changes, but also to do changes to the budget-setting process for next year.
05:46If I'd have called Nigel Farage a maverick, I imagine he would have taken it as a badge of honour, as a politician.
05:53I don't think you'd describe yourself as a maverick, would you?
05:57It's interesting that you say no, because my question was going to be, are you not at some point going to be trapped in a bit of a pincer movement between your own sort of small-c conservative instincts and the big brash reform bandwagon that's coming through and cocking a snook at everything?
06:12No, not at all. I mean, I think politics now is really not about left and right. It's about the national interest versus the global interest.
06:26And I think reform are the only party that puts the national interest first, and that's what British people want, and I'm 100% committed to that.
06:33I asked Nigel Farage what he hoped Lancashire County Council taxpayers would be able to see after 12 months of a reform administration.
06:44Without telling you what he said, what do you hope they will see?
06:47Well, we need to understand the spending review. We'll not get those figures...
06:52That's the national spending review.
06:53The national spending that was announced yesterday by Rachel Reeves will not get how that impacts on Lancashire until November, December this year.
07:01That could be good, it could be bad, it could be indifferent.
07:06Until we have that, we really can't commit to what the budget will be next year.
07:12Thank you very much indeed.