During a Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee hearing last week, Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) questioned VA nominee, Cheryl Mason about the IG Reform Act of 2008.
00:00Thank you now. Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Ms. Mason. I think we served in the building at the same time at one point. Yes, we did, ma'am. So I know exactly what the inner sanctum of the secretary's office looks like, and if you're behind those doors, you're in the inner sanctum. You're not just floating out there. So you probably saw him a lot more than you are trying to lead us to believe.
00:22I just want to follow up on your answer to Senator Hirono. Are you invoking attorney-client privilege and not responding to her question?
00:31No. I simply thank you for the question, Senator Duckworth, and it is a pleasure to see you again. No, I'm not. I'm simply saying that there are situations that I may have advised the secretary on that wouldn't be appropriate for me to talk about.
00:42This question she asked me was a question that I could answer that I was not engaged and involved with, and it was not my place to offer my opinion in that situation.
00:51Did you advise the secretary on setting the $80,000 goal for firing VA employees?
00:58No, Senator Duckworth, thank you. I was not involved in that decision.
01:04Congress established offices of Inspector General in 1978 to, quote, create independent objective units within agencies.
01:11I'm going to follow, continuing on the question line that my colleagues have already started.
01:15But critics have questioned whether a federal agency, IG, can truly be, quote, independent if these officials can be fired by a president who leads the administration and IG is tasked to oversee.
01:27Now, to be fair, Congress has recognized the weakness of allowing a president to silence an IG who might uncover problems that an administration would prefer to sweep under the rug.
01:34In fact, 30 years after the passage of the original IG Act, Congress amended the law to enhance transparency and oversight over potential IG firings.
01:44Ms. Mason, can you please remind our committee of what Congress did in passing Section 3 of the IG Reform Act of 2008?
01:50Let me see. Let me see if I remember that one.
01:53Would you like a copy of it? I can give you a copy.
01:55That would be wonderful, ma'am.
01:57Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to provide the witness with a copy of the Act.
02:02Without objection.
02:04Thank you, Senator Duckworth, and I do remember reading this now.
02:16Yes, I think it's really important to note that that 2008 was where the Congress put in some protections about the 30-day notice and some other areas that asked the president to do so before removing an IG.
02:33Thank you, Ms. Mason.
02:34So I raised the core issue of IG independence because the unfortunate reality is this.
02:38Your nomination is only possible because President Trump fired, without a cause or explanation, let alone the 30-day advance notice is required by law,
02:48Ms. Mason, did President Trump violate federal law when he indiscriminately fire IG missile and failed to provide Congress with a written notice at least 30 days in advance of the removal of his fire to fire the independent and nonpartisan VA inspector general?
03:06Well, Senator Duckworth, I appreciate that question, and again, that issue is currently before the courts, and I would have to defer to the courts and the judge to make that decision.
03:16And after they make that decision, I will be happy to answer the question.
03:22Then I will come back to you.
03:23Okay.
03:24It's a simple question.
03:25As we discussed, the law is clear.
03:27It requires written notification to Congress, and it mandates that such notice be delivered at least 30 days in advance.
03:32Look, a key reason that Congress established the IG law, IGs, was to help ensure any given presidential administration complies with the law.
03:40And I am deeply troubled that you are unwilling to simply identify President Trump's textbook violation of the law.
03:46And your nomination was literally made possible because President Trump committed that textbook violation of the law when he fired IG missile so that he could appoint his own hand-picked appointee, you.
03:57IGs must be willing to speak truth to power, so let's try a far simpler yes or no question.
04:04Ms. Mason, did President Joe Biden win the 2020 presidential election?
04:09The 2020 presidential election?
04:11I believe he did, yes.
04:12Okay.
04:13And if given an illegal and unconstitutional order by either the Secretary of Veterans Affairs or President Trump, what would your actions be?
04:21I will always follow the law, Senator Duckworth, just as I did as chairman, with the same president in office as well as with President Biden in office.
04:30You're back, Mr. Chairman.
04:32Senator Duckworth, thank you.
04:33I don't anticipate, I don't intend to have a second round of questioning, but I want to give the leeway to the ranking member who has a question to follow up.
04:41And then I'll ask you, Ms. Mason, if you have anything you want to conclude, anything you would like to try to correct or I'm not suggesting you need to correct anything, anything you wish you wish to have said before we ask him.
