Emma Grede Reveals Her Secret To Generating More Money

Forbes

Emma Grede is the cofounder and CEO of apparel company Good American. She recently joined the board of the Obama Foundation and launched a podcast, 'Aspire with Emma Grede'. She is chairwoman of The Fifteen Percent Pledge, a nonprofit that works to get retailers to dedicate 15% of their monthly budget to Black-owned businesses.  Grede sits with ForbesWomen editor Maggie McGrath to discuss her career as a serial entrepreneur, and her latest effort into the world of podcasting.  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00Hi, everyone. I'm Maggie McGrath, editor of Forbes Women. Our next guest is the definition

00:06of a self-made female entrepreneur. She is a serial entrepreneur, the co-founder and CEO of

00:12Good American, the chairwoman of the 15% Pledge. She recently joined the board of the Obama

00:18Foundation, and she has a new podcast. She is Emma Greed, and she is here today. Thank you so

00:24much for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. I just rattled off a bunch of titles, and I think

00:28there are a few that I left off. Do you have a favorite title? No, I don't, funnily enough.

00:34I don't. I love everything I do, or I wouldn't do it. That's a fair point. What do you see as the

00:40spark of your entrepreneurial journey? Because you have started a number of businesses, and I know you

00:45had a paper route when you were barely 12 years old. Did it start then, or when did you first start

00:49calling yourself an entrepreneur? You know, honestly, it was never something that I thought about as a

00:54kid. I definitely didn't even know anyone who had their own business. I wasn't brought up around

00:59any entrepreneurs. I fell into entrepreneurialism, and it really came from, you know, I worked a

01:06corporate job for many years, and I wasn't being paid what I thought I deserved. And as a 20, I don't

01:11know, 23-year-old, I thought, I'm sure I could do this better myself. And I just left and decided that

01:17I would set up on my own. And so that was the beginning of my journey. I wasn't being paid what

01:23I thought I deserved. Did that feel like a huge risk, going from a corporate job to staking out

01:28on your own? Yeah. And, you know, it wasn't, it's so interesting in terms of the way that it happened,

01:33because I was lucky enough to fall into a bit of an infrastructure. So I ended up at a fashion group,

01:39and they provided, you know, like an office space for me and a bit of a back office infrastructure.

01:44And they told me, you know, you're going to eat what you kill, Emma. And I thought,

01:48that sounds good, because I'm a killer. So I'll just like, I'll figure this out.

01:52But in a way, it kind of shielded me from a lot of what it takes to build a business,

01:56but it gave me enough leeway in what I was good at. And I'm really good at sales. I'm really good

02:01at marketing. And in those days, I was doing every part of the business. I was going out,

02:05I was selling the, you know, selling the business, I was delivering the business,

02:10I was writing the invoices for the business. But I had enough of a kernel of an idea

02:14that I could do something. And I could bring, you know, a whole project to fruition,

02:19that it was enough of a seed for me to know, there's something here, and I can probably do

02:23this alone. What was that first entrepreneurial venture like?

02:27So it was, it was a mess, quite honestly. If I'm really honest, you know, the best thing that I say

02:33ever happened to me was, you know, I was naive, and you don't know what you don't know in the

02:38beginning. And so I just went in full throttle. And I tried everything, I made every mistake in

02:44the book, I hired wrongly, I took clients on that I probably shouldn't have, because the jobs were

02:49too big. I opened offices in other countries, when things, you know, I started to get a bit of

02:53attraction in the UK. I opened in New York, that was amazing. Then I went to LA, and it was terrible.

02:59And so there was an element of naivety in what I was doing, that just led me to believe that I could do

03:05anything. And would I do it differently? Like, no, I'm not really sure I would, because it just taught

03:10me so much. All of those mistakes I have, you know, been able to avoid in the future.

03:15Sometimes you need to not overthink. And sometimes not knowing what you don't know is the fastest

03:20path to not overthinking. That'll be it. I refer to you as a serial entrepreneur. And I think one of

03:26the things that fascinates me about serial entrepreneurs is the ability to move on from one

03:30company on to the next. Do you have a formula or an inner sense of when it's time to move on to the

03:37next venture? How do you make that decision? If I'm honest, I'd say no. If I'm honest, I've probably

03:42overstayed in certain places in my career. I would have stayed at my, like, my first job before I

03:48started a company slightly too long. I probably stayed and sold my first company slightly too late.

03:55And so I think that I've become better at that timing and understanding the power that comes with

04:02having the right timing as I've got older. But early in my journey, no, I don't think I've got

04:06all of those things right. That's interesting. So for someone watching who has been doing something

04:12for a while, what are the signals now that you listen to in your head or in your gut that tells

04:17you, OK, time for a new project? Well, you know, I think that one of the things I've really learned

04:21is that sometimes your first offer is the best offer. And you can often think that you need to,

04:25like, wait and wait and wait for something better to come. And it doesn't always come.

04:29And so I think that when you're on, you know, when you're on a bit of a tear, when you've got the

04:33momentum, you know, I always thought that you needed to build things until they were at the absolute

04:38pinnacle. No, it's actually when you're on the way up that you want to try to sell a company,

04:42when the forward momentum is still in front of you, not when you're at the top, because the only

04:47place to go is down. Right. And so I think that just getting things on the upswing and learning

04:52when to exit is probably the biggest learning that I've had. I've heard you say in other

04:58interviews that you chase fear. Yeah. Is there a time when chasing fear has led to a better than

05:04expected ROI or entrepreneurial result or just something great in terms of your professional arc?

05:11You know, I think that when I have gone outside of my comfort zone and when I've played outside of

05:18my lane, that's when I've had the most kind of lift in my career. And so I would say, you know,

05:24the very beginning where I took that leap of faith to leave that first job, I've always looked for

05:29that feeling. So when I feel like, you know, I'm not that good at this, I don't know a little bit as

05:35I'm stepping into this world of, you know, podcasting. I'm not an interviewer. I'm highly

05:39curious, but you know, that's not what I do. But I know that when I feel uncomfortable, there's

05:45usually something good that's coming after it. It's always worked out that way for me.

05:50We'll get to the podcast, but I want to talk about Good American for a little bit because you came to

05:54our Forbes Power Women event in September and you started to tell a really interesting anecdote about

05:59how things weren't going well at the business. And you actually called someone who was not just a peer,

06:04but a competitor to ask for her advice. Can you talk about that moment for you as you're leading

06:10this company and you're thinking, uh-oh, things are bad. What drove you to call a competitor?

06:14Well, there's a couple of things. So Good American is a really unique and interesting business.

06:19And while I am surrounded and I've done a really good job in surrounding myself with

06:23great investors and great people in my C-suite that have been there before,

06:27the intricacies in our business in terms of the size range that we make, make the complexity

06:34really different from some traditional businesses. And so I found myself often in a place where

06:40there's just no one to ask except the direct competition. And, you know, I think that we

06:45always imagine that there's like these, you know, rivalries that are out there, but more often than not,

06:50you know, companies are owned by a multitude of people. You know, it's not like you're against

06:55someone else. We kind of pit ourselves against people in our minds. And so I know that in the past

07:01when people have called me, I've been only too willing to help. And so those early days, I just

07:05picked up the phone and this particular woman was like, been there, seen it, done it. Here's the

07:10mistakes that we made. And this is what I would have avoided. And it actually really helped me

07:14more than you could ever know. What was the tactical advice that you were able to employ

07:19after talking to her? I think it was really about, I mean, it was very, there's a lot of specificities

07:24around this, but it was really about inventory planning. And because we have such an enormous

07:28array of sizes, it was about how, how you, I guess, like how you put those sizes into retail,

07:38how you buy and how you stay true to what your mission is, right? To provide all of the sizes

07:43all the time. And this was about the pitfalls that a particular company had made. And we were able to

07:49avoid those because of her. That's really interesting. Have you stayed in touch?

07:52Yeah, of course. I stay in touch with everyone. I mean, I'm in touch with old clients that I

07:57serviced when I was, you know, when I had ITB. I don't lose relationships because people are useful

08:03and you never know when you might need something. You also said something interesting about you don't

08:08get invited into certain rooms for networking until you're already powerful. And I've found that

08:13in my career too. You get to certain things when you're 22, but there's a big difference when you

08:18hit your 30s and beyond. How have you harnessed those rooms either for yourself or for your

08:25companies, do you think? You know, I'm particularly good at making relationships. And I think that when

08:30you start off, you know, in sales, which really was where I started my career, my job was to cold call

08:36brands and try to get them interested in collaborations and marketing, you know, ideas. And so you come from

08:43a place of, you know, I have something to sell. I need to make friends because I need to appear here

08:49that, you know, I've got something great to offer. And so it's just in my nature to make connections

08:54and to keep connections and to find useful ways to put people together. That's just what I do.

09:01And so I think that more than thinking about, you know, networking, I think, how can I be useful?

09:07What do I know over here that can be useful to that person over there? What's a piece of information

09:12that I have? And I'm by nature, a sharer. So it doesn't really need to advantage me. But it can

09:17be a meeting that I have with my bankers and a piece of information that I take into another meeting.

09:22And it's helpful for those two people. That's fine. Because I just believe in the circularity of

09:26everything. It's all going to come back and benefit me. So I'm just somebody that naturally makes

09:31connections between things and people and information all the time. That will play well with

09:36podcasting. But before we go there, I wanted to ask about the layering of skills that it takes to

09:44try new things. I've heard other serial entrepreneurs kind of talk about it as I did it here. So that gave

09:50me the confidence to do it here. And then I did this other new thing in a new sector. But it had

09:55elements of point B and point A. So I knew I could do it at point C. Does that resonate with you? And is

10:01that your experience? 1000%. I think that my life is a series of points of leverage, right? If I look

10:07at the start of my career, learning to be, you know, getting on the phone and making 100 calls a day and

10:14taking that level of rejection, quite honestly, gave me a really thick skin. That thick skin just turns

10:20into resilience, right? Nothing touches you. And you start to learn that nothing is personal. Nothing's

10:25about you. You don't take things personally that enables you to walk into rooms to try to raise money and

10:32to get turned down over and over and over again, but not start to have any disbelief in your idea. You're

10:38like, it's not about me. It's just, I'm in the wrong room. I'm in the wrong situation. This is not the right

10:43partner. So I feel like I have a couple of things that just happened early in my career. And then you start to

10:49think about the skills and the reputational value of the things that you've done. You know, I spent a long

10:54time at this intersection of fashion brands and entertainment. And ultimately what I've done is

11:00gone on to build brands where talent is at the forefront of those brands. And so learning that

11:05language, understanding how talent can be used to accelerate the path of a brand was a really huge

11:12part of my learning. But then also having a background in product meant that I knew that that

11:17alone would never be enough, that you have to create best-in-class product coupled with best-in-class

11:23consumer experience. And all of those things were, you know, what I learned from all of the brands that I was

11:28servicing throughout my years running the agency. And so I've just taken everything I've learned and leveraged it

11:34into the next thing. And again, I think about the leverage as not just the individual situations, but it's your

11:41relationships and it's your reputation. You do really well in one thing, you can carry that into the next thing. When I

11:48went to raise money for the first time, I didn't know any funds. I didn't know any VCs. I went to a client

11:54who I had consistently delivered work to for years and years and years, and he gave me the money. So,

11:59you know, it's like those things really come back and work for you in ways that you can't imagine

12:03when you're just an agent delivering great work. That's a healthy way to think about reputation,

12:08because sometimes it can be paralyzing on the other side of the coin. You have a good reputation,

12:13you have good relationships, and then the thought can creep in, well, what if this isn't as good? Or

12:19what if this is the thing that ruins my reputation? Did those doubts ever creep in? No. And, you know,

12:24I don't usually have that. I think that this idea about, you know, imposter syndrome, it's something

12:29that we talk about only with women for some idea. Like, I never hear anyone be like, like, did you have

12:36imposter syndrome to a guy? It's like, why? Why would I? I was really raised to have an enormous amount of

12:42self-belief. But again, I don't think take things personally when they don't work out for me,

12:47because I don't think it's about me. I think it's about that set of circumstances and that thing at

12:51that time. It's like, you win some, you lose some. You move on. So what were the circumstances and the

12:58time that led to your new podcast? Well, you know, it's so interesting, because I've spent my entire

13:03career building businesses. And I was thinking a lot about this idea of scaling mentorship everywhere

13:11where that I go. You know, if I'm in a panel talk or I'm just walking down the street, people will ask

13:16me, how do I start a business? How do I get a pay rise? How do I become a better negotiator? How do

13:21you raise money for your first startup? And, you know, I try to answer a lot of DMs. I will jump on

13:27the phone to people when I can. But this idea of scaling mentorship, I just thought podcasts could be

13:33so interesting. And then when I started to look into, you know, the podcast landscape, because I love

13:38listening to so many shows, it feels like a space that is so incredibly wide, and yet so narrow from

13:45a viewpoint. It's very, very male dominated. And once you get into, you know, the business sector,

13:51it's even more male dominated. And I thought that there was probably a space for a voice that spoke

13:58as much about their successes, as you would your failures. And I think that's the important part of

14:05what I've done. You know, it's like, I've had a lot of things I've worked, but I've also had a lot

14:10of things that haven't worked. And in that, I've met so many people and had been very fortunate to

14:16surround myself with great people. And as I started calling them, so many of the women I called had

14:22never been on a podcast. And I was like, well, that's strange. Like, how have you never been asked?

14:26So I just think that there are stories to be told. And I really want to get like, deep, I really want to

14:32take some of the complexity out of these ideas. Because I think at the heart of everything,

14:37there's just like really simple stuff here, that if we unwrap it a little bit, you know,

14:41more people would understand. That's interesting. So it's a call to fill a void.

14:46I think so. Yeah. Because I was going to ask if you see it as a way to build your own brands,

14:52because increasingly, we see founders who need to put themselves out there as a way to maybe reassure

14:58consumers or investors. And there's this self-fulfilling ecosystem that the more the

15:02founder is out there, the better it can be for the brand. Did you consider that element?

15:07No, but I think that probably has something to do with my founding partners. I work with the most

15:13famous women in the world. So I don't need that type of thing for those brands. What I do with the

15:18podcast could never eclipse the fame of, you know, Kim or something like that. So it's not about that

15:26type of thing for me. Do you like the attention on you or do you prefer? Yeah, I don't mind it at

15:30all, actually. I think it's been really nice because, you know, I think that people look at

15:34me as somebody that is self-made and somebody that's done a lot of interesting things. You know,

15:40it's not, I don't have a background in business. I didn't even finish school. You know, I'm a college

15:45dropout, as you would say here. And so I think that that background and showing the myriad of ways

15:50that you can come into this type of career is really, really interesting. And so, yeah,

15:55I enjoy it. And I like, I like to be able to be useful. You know, I really do.

16:01I was going to ask if you feel like one of America's richest self-made women, or do you

16:06feel successful? Or do you still feel like you're the girl from East London, striving,

16:09striving, striving? Yeah, I think there's something about when you come from very little,

16:14that feeling of scarcity, like that's always with me, right? That lives with me. I'm very clear.

16:18And I, you know, I know that I've been successful and I feel that way every day. But I don't take

16:24anything for granted, because I think you're only as good as the last thing that you did. You know,

16:28today I woke up and I was looking at podcast numbers. It's very different from looking at

16:32the sales of some of my businesses. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, okay, started from the

16:37bottom, you know, you're back there. So I think, you know, whenever I, and again, it comes back into

16:41that thing of like leaning into the fear. I feel good whenever I'm doing something that I need to

16:47kind of start again and learn again from. Learning is fun.

16:51Yeah, it is. And it's also scary, you know, but I'm not, I'm not scared of being scared.

16:55Not scared of being scared. I like that. We're speaking in a moment, six months or so after you

17:02spoke on stage about the importance of inclusion in your work. You are the chair of the 15% pledge.

17:09Good American is a B Corps. Is that correct?

17:11How do you feel now in this environment, especially in the US? It might not be the same globally, but

17:16words like diversity, equity, inclusion have become politically charged in a way that they

17:22hadn't been in prior years. Does that make your work and mission harder?

17:26No, I don't think it makes it harder. I think what it does is it almost sorts through a lot. And I

17:33think that what we're seeing with the pledge is, you know, you have to remember the pledge is a

17:38contractual commitment to a certain type of work. And we've been so unbelievably lucky that the

17:45pledge takers sign those contracts, no corporate corporation goes into a contract without being

17:51really thoughtful around it. And so those long term commitments are being upheld. And we're really,

17:56really lucky that the brands that we signed on are committed to the work. But we can't, you know,

18:03we can't shy away from the fact that this work is being attacked. And I actually think that that's

18:08a moment for us all to, and the brands that really care to rise above everything, right? That's your

18:14moment to stand out and show, well, how good is this for business? Because at the end of the day,

18:18I've always thought about DE&I as a business proposition. This is what is good for business.

18:24This is what is good for our customers. Otherwise, we wouldn't be thinking about these terms as a

18:29business proposition. And that's exactly what it is. But I think it's a moment for the right brands

18:34and the right corporations to actually rise to the top.

18:37Well, as a marketer, is there a different way you find yourself talking about it now? Because I've

18:40talked to other, even venture capitalists, say the way that they frame it on their website, it's

18:44they've rewritten some things to avoid the political scrutiny, because ultimately the work

18:49doesn't change, but the way they talk about it does. I mean, certainly in my companies, we aren't

18:54changing anything. I can't speak on behalf of all of the pledge takers, because that would be far too

18:58broad. But certainly we aren't changing anything. You've learned a lot of lessons over the course of

19:04building companies over your career. What is one lesson that you would hope that folks watching

19:09take from the story of your life, the story of your career?

19:13You know, I think the lesson that I probably would like to think about the most is that,

19:21you know, I feel like we all believe that there is some time that will come and that the stars will

19:28align and everything will be just right for you to make that step, to push through, to change something

19:37that you're doing. And the truth is, it's never the right time. The truth is, there's always going

19:43to be something on the horizon, there'll always be something that it doesn't quite line up. And,

19:47you know, there's a difference between having an idea and then doing something. And I think that you

19:53just have to do, right? You just have to push through and get past that point of fear and try

19:59something. And it's not about perfection. It isn't about, you know, doing things completely right

20:06from the outset. It is just about getting something done. And you learn and you iterate and you change

20:13and you grow. And all of that is fine. Nobody is watching you like you're watching you. And I think

20:19that that is a really good lesson for anyone. It's like, just go for it.

20:23Just go for it. Take that first step.

20:25Just take the step.

20:26What was the most important first step you ever took?

20:30I honestly think, I mean, look, there's been so many. You could say leaving my first job.

20:36You could say shutting my first thing down. You could say moving to America. There are so many.

20:41You have to keep taking first steps. And this podcast is another example of a first step for me.

20:47But I think that that is one of the best things about life, that there's so many firsts. And at this

20:52age of 42, I never imagined that, you know, I'd be starting yet another new thing. And yet here I am.

20:58So you just got to keep it moving all the time.

21:01When you were younger, did you think, could you imagine your career after the age of even 35?

21:06No, I thought that was so old, 35, didn't you? I remember my mother's 30th birthday. And I was like,

21:12wow, she's old.

21:14And now it's like, oh, baby.

21:16I'm like, whatever, just baby. I'm just getting going. I'm like, goodness me.

21:19Right. You are privy to a lot of entrepreneurial advice, either giving it to people or overhearing

21:25it. Is there advice that people should heed and they are not heeding?

21:32I mean, there's so much terrible advice out there, isn't there? I mean, the problem is there's more

21:36bad advice than there is good advice. You know, one of the things that I like to think about all the

21:43time and if I think about my own career more pointedly is that I don't think we talk about

21:49money enough. Certainly when I started the businesses that I'm in now, you know, we were in this kind of

21:56D to C boom and it was all about growth and acquiring customers. And I think there's sometimes not being

22:03really focused on money, on profit, on, you know, what it takes to build a really fantastic business

22:14can really hold you back. And especially for women, I sometimes don't understand why we don't have

22:20those conversations. Like, what are you being paid? Who negotiated that for you? How much did you pay the

22:25person that actually negotiated it? You know, it's like, I want all the information. And that's another

22:29reason. I think that in this podcast, I mean, I've already done three episodes that like just focus on

22:34money. Like, you know, we need to talk about it more and more and more. And I think there is still

22:39something that feels inelegant or impolite or other words of, you know, why we're not, there's a reason

22:47that we're not speaking about money more. And I think that it means that we're not getting enough of it. So

22:52that's my big thing right now. It's like, we need to talk about money a lot more. So if we talked about

22:57money more, we'd be getting money more? 100% we would because we demystify it because we'd

23:01understand what is, you know, what our value is and what everybody else we're getting. We'd bring

23:06the, you know, I listened to so many conversations with men all the time. And part of it is the

23:14constant exchange of information. And when we sit in networking events, that's what we need to be

23:21talking about. What did you get? How much did you pay? What is it worth? Like that's, that is the thing.

23:27We can't be like keeping that stuff to ourself. You have to share that information.

23:31Those are good things. I think you're going to make for a good podcast.

23:34Who are your first guests? And also where can people find this podcast?

23:37Well, you can find it everywhere you get your podcasts and on YouTube. I like, you know,

23:42I think it's so interesting. My first two guests I'm so happy about because it was Gwyneth Paltrow

23:48and Melody Hobson. Melody is my hands down number one business idol in the world. And she did

23:55such an amazing job at talking through, you know, who she is and where she came from and how she's

24:02really doubled down and has such a expertise in finance. And that's what's made her who she is,

24:08you know, and she's gone on to such incredible things. She sat as the chair of Starbucks for,

24:13you know, many, many years and has been at the, you know, an incredible, she's had an incredible

24:18career in the same place for 30 years. And then Gwyneth, I think like so many women started a

24:23company that was born of a passion of hers. And so, you know, she had this tiny little newsletter

24:30that ballooned into this incredible e-commerce company. But again, I think knowing that, you know,

24:35she's this Oscar winning actress that did a complete pivot into something else. I love that idea that you

24:40can just change what it is that you do and be successful and have a second chapter. And so it was so

24:46interesting speaking to both of them and very, very different stories, but equally compelling and

24:52equally interesting. And I think inspiring. Spoken like a serial entrepreneur, always looking for

24:58something new. I normally close by asking my guests, if we were to speak one year from now,

25:03what would you hope to report to me that you have accomplished? Oh, I mean, honestly, I would like

25:10this podcast to be enormously successful. And by that, I mean that there are a lot of people

25:18being able to use it, right? Listening and yes, being entertained, but like taking that information

25:25and doing something with it, not just writing notes that stay in your phone, but taking that and going,

25:31I'm going to do something and get started. That would be my dream.

25:34A company on the Forbes 30 under 30. Inspired by. Go. Inspired by Aspired. Yes, that's it. That one.

25:43There we go. I'm agreed. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much.

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