- 6/7/2025
In a huge boost to the government's Atmanirbhar Bharat push in the defence sector, France's Dassault Aviation has partnered with India's Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) to produce the fuselage of Rafale fighter aircraft in India for both domestic and global markets.
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00:00Hello and welcome to a very special edition of Battlecry. I'm Gaurav Savant and this edition
00:21of Battlecry is extra special. We are talking about the Rafale aircraft and the fuselage
00:28to be made in India. It's a landmark development in Indian aviation. The main body, the fuselage
00:36of the Rafale fighter jets are to be manufactured in India and it's the first time, the first time
00:42ever that the fuselage of the Rafale are to be made outside France. An agreement has been inked
00:49between the French manufacturer Dassault Aviation and India's Tata Advanced Systems Limited or TASL.
00:57So under this agreement, the Rafale fuselage will be made at a facility that is to be set
01:02up in Hyderabad. It's being hailed as a huge step in Narendra Modi government's Atmanirbhar
01:09Bharat in defence initiative. The made in India or make in India in defence initiative. Let
01:16me now give you some of the finer aspects of this agreement. So Tata Advanced Systems, it's
01:22to set up a cutting edge production facility in Hyderabad. Now this facility is to manufacture
01:30the structural sections of the Rafale fuselage. That's the information that we have. The lateral
01:35shell of the rear fuselage for example, the complete rear section, the central fuselage and
01:41the front section. All of it are to be made in India. The timelines we are told, if all goes
01:48well, the first fuselage section is expected to roll out of the production line or the
01:55assembly line by financial year 2028. So that's three years from now. And then once this facility
02:02is up and running, two complete bodies, aircraft bodies of fuselage every month. That's the
02:08plan. Now, Eric Trappier, the chairman and CEO of Dassault Aviation, he said that the supply
02:13chain will contribute to the successful ramp-up of the Rafale fighter jet. That's the information
02:19that we have. So they will support. There's qualitative requirements, the QR's there to
02:25be met, competitive requirements, that has to be met. Remember, India had purchased 36 Rafale
02:31fighter jets for the Indian Air Force, the Government of India and France. They've already signed an
02:36intergovernmental agreement for an additional 26 Rafale fighter jets. And these, of course, are
02:41the Rafale Marines for the Indian Navy for deck-based flying. Now, the agreement includes training,
02:48simulators, associated equipment, weapons, performance-based logistics, all of that. Of those 26 for Rafale
02:56Marines for the Navy, 22 single-seater and four twinjet aircraft. Again, additional equipment,
03:03existing Rafale, even for the existing Rafale fleet for the Indian Air Force, all of that is
03:08part of this agreement. And joining me now on this Battlecry special broadcast are Air Marshal
03:13Anil Chopra, former Director General for Centre for Air Power Studies. Incidentally, he's a former
03:18Mirage 2000 fighter pilot. Air Marshal Chopra flew in the first Mirages to India from France.
03:23Also with me is Sandeep Unnithan, senior journalist, author and a military analyst, power excellence.
03:29Air Marshal Chopra, Rafale fuselage to be made in India, the first to roll out in three years
03:36from now. Your take on this development. How do you see this, sir?
03:42Gaurav, absolutely exciting times. Greatly, you know, re-emphasizing the success of make in India. Capability
03:52of India's prowess to be able to make global standard equipments. We are already making
03:58aero structures for the Apache, for the Sikorsky S92, the C-130. We are making for Lockheed Martin,
04:06the F-16 wings. We are making the entire LCA in India. So we have come of age. India is now the place,
04:16destination for manufacturing all the major systems. And with this coming, two brick developments
04:22have taken place in the last very short time of two, three months. Order for 26 Rafale end
04:29for the Indian Navy and now this. And we are all excitedly hoping that the MRFA context,
04:36one month for aircraft that required Indian Air Force may also be the Rafale.
04:42I'll come to that in just a moment. So I want to for the moment just stay on the current issue
04:47of the fuselage to be made in India. Sandeep, from an importer of defence hardware to a manufacturer.
04:54And take our viewers through this journey from HF24, Marut, you recall, through the LCA project
05:00and now take swings once again through the Rafale fuselage manufacturing for now.
05:06Well, Gaurav, extremely significant development. This is the first step that we are taking
05:12towards building a second fighter production line in India, Gaurav. Since 1947,
05:19Hindustan Aeronautics Limited has been the sole manufacturer of jet fighters in India for the Indian Air Force.
05:26We have seen the Air Chief Marshal AP Singh in recent months. He has voiced his disappointment with HAL.
05:33There are several issues with the timely supply of fighter jets at a time when the Air Force is looking at shrinking squadron numbers.
05:40Now, this is very, very significant because the Indian Air Force has been repeatedly calling for private sector participation
05:46in fighter aircraft manufacture. And this actually points to the first steps in that direction to set up a second production line within the country, Gaurav.
05:56If you remember, the Rafale was, over a decade ago, the shortlisted aircraft for the Indian Air Force's MMRCA fighter jet contest.
06:05And now, a decade later, it's also the front runner in the Indian Air Force's requirement for 114 medium role fighter aircraft.
06:15And this possibly points to Rafale Dassault getting a foot in the door with this indigenous production of the fuselage.
06:23It's just, you know, the first couple of steps in that direction, very, very significant.
06:29Now, all of the aircraft that you mentioned, Gaurav, right from 1947, including the HF 24, Marut and the light combat aircraft have all been produced by HAL.
06:38Now, the quantum of orders that have been placed on HAL clearly shows that, you know, one fighter line might not be enough to produce all of those aircraft.
06:48So, possibly, what the government, what the Air Force is looking at and, of course, what Tata's are looking at is to build that second fighter production line in case the Indian Air Force goes in for that 114 multi-role fighter aircraft requirement.
07:02They could be produced very quickly by this second production line that the Tata's are going to set up, Gaurav.
07:08And what's extremely interesting, Air Marshal Chopra, that this fuselage manufacturing is not just for aircraft in India, but for the world.
07:16So, Rafal team would be a part of this process, including quality control in your appreciation.
07:21And since you've seen this journey over decades, you were a part of that team that brought the Mirage 2000s into the country.
07:29What does this indicate about India's journey so far and the skies ahead?
07:36You know, Gaurav, as of today, there is a single assembly line for Rafale in France.
07:42They are making 25 aircraft a year.
07:45Total orders placed for Rafale on Dassault is 554.
07:51There are another 200 aircraft orders which are in the pipeline where discussions are going on.
07:58To meet these orders at 25 aircraft a year, Dassault will require 8 to 10 years.
08:05That's a huge timeline.
08:07As it is, there have been talk about them setting up another assembly line somewhere in France, most probably.
08:15That was the initial intention.
08:16But clearly, they have chosen to bring this assembly line to India for various reasons.
08:21We have our manufacturing quality is absolutely international class.
08:25It's much cheaper to make in India, though presently only the, you know, the fuse large is going to be made.
08:32But, you know, as we go along, we will see, like it's happening in C295, more and more subcomponent subsystems, etc.,
08:40will one day be, you know, made in India.
08:42And, you know, there is a high possibility.
08:44We are talking to Safran for making India engines.
08:48There are so many possibilities that will emerge.
08:51So, if this line gets set up, we will, the figures that are in the open source right now, around 25 aircraft,
08:59that is two a month, will be the production capacity from 2028.
09:04And that way, it will be a huge development.
09:07And, of course, if we choose to, Indian Air Force chooses to have 114 aircraft, 140 aircraft between Navy and us,
09:15will be a huge number.
09:16And mind you, what India must go for is the F-4, the latest variant, which is already being inducted in the French Air and Space Force.
09:26And that's the latest variant.
09:27Also, Qatar and some other countries are buying that variant.
09:30And that will make a big difference to the capability.
09:33We have seen the success of Rafal, you know, of Sandhuur and various campaigns around the world.
09:39So, there is the exciting times ahead I can make out.
09:42I can make out that excitement in your voice and in Sandeep's.
09:45And Sandeep, the fact that India will emerge and is emerging as this major aviation hub.
09:52It's an important journey.
09:54Fuselage for Rafal.
09:55That would actually be the big test because the focus on aircraft engines, as Air Marshal Chopra was mentioning,
10:03whether it's Safran or, you know, when Prime Minister Narendra Modi was in Paris for Bastille Day celebrations,
10:11there were conversations around co-manufacturing, co-development of fighter jet engines.
10:18That would be an absolute game changer as far as Indian Air Force is concerned.
10:22Absolutely, Gaurav.
10:23In fact, you know, we are at the moment, we have an issue with the Kaveri engine.
10:28And, of course, slow, you know, supply of the GE 404 engines.
10:34And, of course, we need that development partner for hand-holding us as we develop that, you know, jet engine for the AMCA and the LCA Mark II.
10:43So, Safran has emerged clearly as the third alternative for us, apart from the Russians and the Americans.
10:49So, the fact that Dassault chose to, you know, set up this production line in India explains the high level of trust
10:57that India and France enjoy. It's a strategic partnership.
11:01And, as Air Marshal Chopra mentioned, it's a win-win for both countries that Dassault gets to offload many of its international orders
11:08into this production line here with the Tatas.
11:12And, of course, if the Indian Air Force chooses to go in for that 114 MRFA, they can, you know, get it from within India as well.
11:21And, you know, also, Gaurav, there is that issue that you mentioned of the engine.
11:25So, that is going to be the cherry on the cake. If we actually manage to get that technology transfer from Safran,
11:34that would be the ultimate, you know, goal, I guess, of the indigenous fighter engine program.
11:40Air Marshal Chopra, wouldn't that be the case, the ultimate test if India's next generation fighter jet engines are to be made in India from the concept to powering our jets.
11:51But before that, in the interim, whether it's the Safran engine or any engine that we can make in India for our fighter jets.
12:02Yeah, whatever engine we make in India, Gaurav has to be from design means we must have the intellectual property rights over that engine.
12:10We should be able to thereafter dwell further engines using that as the core, whether it's the fighter engines or even, you know, airliner engines or transport aircraft engines.
12:20So, that core has to be developed in India. Safran has been talking. Of course, the money is involved are rightly currently a little on the higher side.
12:30But that's okay. I mean, everybody is going to charge some amount of money and a growing economy in big countries like India.
12:37One day we'll have to pay for the technology if you really want to induct. But I want to bring in a point why it is important that India must now take the decision about the 114 aircraft.
12:47As the air chief has already said that Indian Air Force desperately needs more fighter aircraft. We are down to 3031 squadrons.
12:55And the advantage is that we already have two air bases, the digital space is there. We have paid money for one time India specific enhancements.
13:05The commonality between Indian Navy, the Rafal M and the Rafal is close to 95% commonality between the two.
13:13In fact, we can actually operate with each other barring the deck landing. Everything else is common.
13:19Daswar has already set up the MRO at Jewa. You know, so the MRO is also evolving here. So, there is a lot of dynamics which are playing at the background.
13:30And there is a need for India to sort of cash in at this. And I am sure perhaps some backchannel discussions of this kind are already, you know, taking place.
13:42Okay. Sandeep, do you see a timeline for this journey? Because Prime Minister Narendra Modi has spoken of that journey of India emerging as an aviation hub.
13:51Are we looking at that maintenance to manufacturing route, both the Russian aircraft and we have been maintaining a lot of Russian fighter fleet for other air forces in the region.
14:02So, is that the best route to follow?
14:05Absolutely, Gaurav. I mean, there is no doubt about it. And you know, the question that needs to be asked is why we didn't do it until now. This has been looking at us in the face.
14:14The fact that India could have become a maintenance, an MRO hub for several years now. We are one of the largest operators of the Sukhoi 30 MKI.
14:23There are several other countries that operate the same aircraft. And now with the fact that we are getting a foot in the door with the Rafale, which is one of the, you know, fastest selling aircraft, as Air Marshal Chopra mentioned, there are several air forces in the world that want the Rafale in their fleets.
14:39So, this is India literally positioning itself into the global supply chain, Gaurav. And the fact is that, you know, I want to quote that example. It's not a fighter, you know, a fighter aircraft example, but it is Maruti Suzuki.
14:53If you remember, when Maruti Suzuki came into India four decades ago, that sparked off the automobile revolution. And today, here we are. Four decades later, we are completely self-sufficient in automobiles.
15:04We've got our own design expertise. We're exporting to the rest of the world. Similarly, we are beginning that journey only now with military aircraft, as we've seen with the C-295 Airbus is now making it in India with the Tatas.
15:18The Dassault is the second such. It's the first fighter aircraft, the second aircraft to be built outside of HAL.
15:25So, what you're looking at literally, Gaurav, is competition being built within the Indian defense ecosystem, the public sector and the private sector.
15:33Let me pick up from that and take this to Air Marshal Chopra. That's a very interesting point that you make about two different lines, two separate lines and also competition so that HAL does not have a monopoly.
15:45Because Air Marshal Chopra, the FGFA story or the fifth generation fighter aircraft story, that would be different. That's not this fuselage. That's not this aircraft. That's not this engine.
15:58Or are we looking at perhaps an interim aircraft? Are we also looking at, if you're not doing those 114 right now, are we looking at the Su-30 MKI with the BrahMOS while we focus on the fifth generation fighter aircraft? Can you shed some light on that, sir?
16:15Yeah. Before I come to the fifth generation aircraft part, I want to highlight the point that, you know, you have been making earlier in the day is that you'll recall that in 126 aircraft, the reason why we finally didn't go through the contract and we had to buy only 36 off the shelf Rafals was because the issue about production of HAL and taking the responsibility for making the Rafals in India.
16:40Then the French had told us as back as 2014 that if somebody else was to make, they are willing to take responsibility in a corporate world, they can talk to somebody, but they cannot take the responsibility of public sector undertaking.
16:53So I think it's a big, huge development that has taken place. Fifth generation aircraft, a little complex at this time. We know that AMCA timelines are a little far.
17:03We know that AMCA's aircraft, they want to conduct before 2035. Pakistan is already talking to China with J-35, but they promised to give them off the shelf few aircraft as early as later this year, though earlier the plan was to give them in 2030.
17:18So there is a little dynamics which are playing around. The only two aircraft offer in the world or at least where the possibility is there, that is the F-35 and the Su-57 from Russia's interim aircraft.
17:32Russians have offered to set up the assembly line and have 100% transfer of technology. That's a big question mark whether physically it will be actually there or not. With S-400 already with us, will the Americans still offer, you know, the F-35 when they have refused to their own NATO partner Turkey?
17:51So there are big issues. But I agree with you. If we upgrade the Su-30, get the longer range R-37M air-to-air missile from the Russians or we dwell on Astra-3 very, very quickly.
18:04Also, once the Brahmos, other variants, the present variant in the Su-30 has got 2.5 ton, it's the weight and can carry only single. But when the AMG variant, which is 1.5 tons, the Brahmos comes up, Su-30 will carry three and so will all the other fighters, including LCA, will be able to carry it.
18:24So there are developments there. We need to, you know, upgrade the Su-30 fleet very, very quickly and with a long range A-to-air as well as A-to-surface missiles.
18:35It just sounds so absolutely fascinating what's happening in the field of Indian military aviation, Sandeep. We have the Rafals that are made in France and India. Hopefully by 2028, we'll have the Su-30 MKIs made in Russia and India.
18:52We have the light combat aircraft made by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, of course, powered by the G-404 and then Mark II by the 414 engines and then the FGFA.
19:04It just shows that perhaps, you know, it's a huge, huge landscape there for Indian Air Force to operate and choose from.
19:14Well, absolutely, Gaurav. And, you know, it also coincides with the fact that we've been discussing this in previous installments of your program, the fact that it comes at a time when the political leadership has understood the importance of coercive air power.
19:28And that is a very big step. As we've seen in the past, air power was never the first instrument of choice when you're dealing with aggression from our western neighbor or our northern neighbor.
19:38But now with the political leadership understanding this very clearly and the last couple of deployments from 2019 Balakot, 2020 in Ladakh and now 2025 Sindhu, air power has come of age in India and political leadership has understood that.
19:53You have the military leadership as well that's understanding the importance of air power and all of these programs that have taken off simultaneously.
20:01And the most important is that, you know, that ultimate indigenous Atmanirbhar solution that India worked out between the Air Force and BrahMos got, which was the air-launched BrahMos, which was used with such devastating precision.
20:16So, you know, one wonders what other surprises are there, Gaurav, when you have the, you know, private sector, the Indian Air Force and the public sector coming together, what other game-changing options can they really produce like the BrahMos and the Sukhoi-30 combination?
20:34So, this is literally, the sky is the, you know, limit for us in terms of imagination, thinking out of the box in ways that we can project our air powers to protect India's territories, given the fact we have such a serious security situation on two fronts, Gaurav, with Pakistan on the west and China on the north.
20:54And both of them sharing a collusive relationship, exchanging not just fifth-generation fighter aircraft, but, you know, long-range missiles, air, you know, surface-to-air missiles, all of those things.
21:06So, this is the time for us to really come out with out-of-the-box solutions, Indian solutions for Indian wars, just as the BrahMos and the Sukhoi combination have shown us, Gaurav.
21:15Indian solutions for Indian scenarios and the way we've done it, M.A. Chopra, the last 30 seconds I have on this part of the show, Operation Sindhoor was sending a message to Pakistan, but the writing on the wall, the China wall, if I may, would also have been read by Beijing.
21:33Absolutely, Gaurav. I think one country that has been watching Op Sindhoor most closely and perhaps also sitting in the bunkers and in the command posts in Pakistan and monitoring and perhaps advising was China.
21:49And they needed to do that because the first time their military equipment had been at play, the first combat, their military equipment, whether the J-10, J-17, the PL-15, they're the first time they have been engaged.
22:06They've been watching very closely. The results have not been very good. HQ-9 did nothing, hit nothing.
22:11PL-15, PL-15s are claims, but no proof is there. And PL-15, large number of them have been caught, found in India, which did not even explode.
22:22So there are mixed results. They have not claimed a single aircraft for JF-17. They have claimed with J-10s. Maybe that is what they want to market.
22:32But I think this campaign will be watched very, very closely and analyzed around the world for time to come.
22:37This is where Air Chief Marshal AP Singh very clearly said that once you're promising on a timeline, you must deliver on those timelines.
22:47Because this is where the Air Force needs everything, everything and as quickly as possible.
22:53And he's made it very clear,
22:56You're promising us the aircraft, give us the aircraft.
23:01You're promising us the supersonic cruise missiles, give them to us.
23:05If you're promising us two assembly lines, give them to the Indian Air Force so that they can protect our territory and our skies and they continue to touch the sky with glory.
23:17To both my guests, many thanks for joining me.
23:21Very exciting times ahead when it comes to Indian aviation and especially Indian military aviation.
23:27That is all I have for you on this Battle Cry special.
23:31Many thanks for watching.
23:32News and updates continue on India Today.
23:34Stay tuned.
23:35News and updates continue on India.
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