- 02/06/2025
Catch up on all the latest political news from across Kent with Ollie Leader joined by Clair Pearsall, former Conservative government adviser, and Cllr Mark Hood, Green Tonbridge and Malling and KCC Councillor.
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00:00Hello and welcome to the Kent Politics Show live here on KMTV.
00:29The show that gets Kent's politicians talking.
00:32I'm Olly Leder and if you're a Kent Conservative, this may have been a lot bleaker than the weather suggests.
00:40Local elections have left the party with just five sitting in County Hall.
00:45And defections in Sevenoaks have left the District Council in no overall control.
00:50National polling is equally troubling for the party.
00:53One even had them in fourth place.
00:55But with the former UK and Labour locked in a battle over benefits, does the party have a pathway back to power?
01:03And it's not just conservatism seemingly on the decline.
01:07New police figures show crime in Kent is lower than it was four years ago.
01:12But with the national debate raging over cannabis, could it all be about to go up in smoke?
01:18Well, to make sense of it all, I'm joined by Claire Pearsall, a political commentator and former Conservatist, special government advisor, and Mark Hood, Green Tumbridge and Mauling and Kent County Councillor.
01:29Thank you both for joining me in the studio.
01:32And Claire, I'm sure you have a lot to say about the performance of your party in recent weeks.
01:39But I think we need to start with, is it just all over?
01:41Well, of course, it's not all over.
01:44Yes, we've been beaten and very badly.
01:46And if anybody tries to put a spin on it to say that it's not that bad, then I would suggest they need to give themselves a good shake.
01:52It was a disaster.
01:53The party needs to come to terms with that.
01:55It needs to look at what it's going to do going forward to regain the trust of residents, especially in Kent, but also throughout the country,
02:03because it's come off the back of an election last year where, well, again, we lost so many different seats that we shouldn't have done.
02:10But look at YouGov polling.
02:13You're ranked in fourth polling position, 16% voting intention.
02:18That's the worst since YouGov began.
02:22And the last time the party was placed in fourth position, that was under Theresa May during the Brexit crisis.
02:29This doesn't look like a positive place for any political party to be in.
02:33Less one that was absolutely decimated at the general election.
02:38I remember those times with Theresa May and the Brexit debate.
02:40I was in the Home Office at the time, and it was incredibly painful.
02:43But the party was able to bounce back and had an election win in 2019 with an increased majority.
02:49So it isn't all over.
02:50But it bounced back under a more charismatic leader, a Labour Party under a very, very unpopular leader,
02:56and a little Democrat party that wasn't winning many seats and wasn't that popular as well.
03:00This is a very different context.
03:01Yes, it is.
03:02But also we now have a Labour government which is not being particularly popular,
03:06and we're, what, 10 months in, and they're making decisions which they are roundly getting criticised for.
03:12And remember, the electoral cycle, we've got at least another four years.
03:16So yes, this isn't great.
03:17I don't want to be in fourth place.
03:19I don't want to see my party going down the pans like it is at the moment.
03:23But also there is a long way to go back, and there's a lot to prove from other parties who are coming up, like reform.
03:29They have an awful lot to prove, whereas the Conservative Party just needs to focus on rebuilding and what they're going to be.
03:35Mark, one part that is going up in Kent is the Greens.
03:38There's one seat gain in Kent County Council, from my understanding, which may not be the biggest gains in the world.
03:44It's not like the Liberal Democrats who gained 12 or reform who've gained 57.
03:50But I do have to ask, do you think that the Conservatives' seeming decline here in Kent is actually going to benefit the Green Party?
03:59Because the Liberal Democrats seem to be taking the lion's share of those former Conservative seats if they haven't gone to reform already.
04:05I think when you look at where the Liberal Democrats made their gains, they're around Tunbridge Wells.
04:11And they've got a formidable election machine there, which they put to good effect to get their MP.
04:17So I think that there are some special circumstances here.
04:21I think the key thing here is actually that people have stopped voting tribally.
04:26So, you know, it's been said again and again that the two-party system is gone.
04:32And I think that is the case.
04:33I think once people start to vote in different ways, then they're likely to do that going forward.
04:39So I think everything's up for grabs.
04:41I think reform have got a huge job on their plates.
04:45They've come in to KCC.
04:47They've told us what they're going to do.
04:49They've told us they're going to stop the boats.
04:51We don't control the border force at Kent County Hall.
04:53So it would be interesting to see exactly what they can achieve, because they're going to be held to and can't.
04:59We're there to do that, alongside the Liberal Democrats.
05:03We'll be there in the different Cabinet committees at full council, and we'll be making sure that the Kent taxpayer gets full representation.
05:11Because I think I want to get – I'm curious.
05:12It's slightly a different question than you may be expecting.
05:14But you are almost our inside man in Kent County Council.
05:17You have been seeing the chaos or perhaps the organisation that's been unfolding since reform has been elected.
05:26You've seen the transitional period between two different administrations unfolding.
05:31What do you make of it as an experienced Kent County Councillor?
05:34Well, we've got a proper induction period this time.
05:37When I became a councillor four years ago, we didn't have that because of COVID.
05:42I'm disappointed not to have seen more reformed councillors around County Hall during the induction period.
05:49We've had six meetings that have been cancelled already from our programme of meetings.
05:56So that's a concern.
05:59Yeah, it's going to be interesting.
06:01Let's give them the benefit of the doubt, but we'll be there in the Cabinet committees making sure that they're delivering.
06:09And if they're not delivering, we're going to want to know exactly why.
06:12Well, talking about delivering, we had a big speech this week from Nigel Farage, the leader of Reform UK.
06:19We have a clip right here talking about what he's hoping to deliver on in the coming months, both in the reform level,
06:27but also if he wants to win the next general election.
06:29Let's take a look, shall we?
06:31As for the Conservatives, I don't think many in the media class yet really understand the extent to which they are dying as a political party.
06:42It's over.
06:43It is done.
06:45Lifting the two-child cap is the right thing to do.
06:50Not because we support a benefits culture, but because we believe for lower paid workers, this actually makes having children just a little bit easier for them.
07:03To me, how on earth can you afford all of this?
07:06How on earth can you afford five billion here or five billion there?
07:10Almost forgetting that the national debt is now 2.8 trillion.
07:13And that not just the last government, but this one too, are hopelessly adrift when it comes to government borrowing.
07:21Well, big hits against the Conservatives there.
07:23But something I'm curious about is the policy announcements, because end-to-child allowance, increasing the tax threshold of £20,000,
07:33greater marriage allowances, these are things that wouldn't necessarily be out of a Labour manifesto or potentially even a Green manifesto come to it.
07:43Is this going to put pressure on our historically left-wing parties?
07:47Mark, let's go to you on this one.
07:49Well, I must say it's quite a transformation, isn't it?
07:52It sounds more like Jeremy Corbyn there.
07:55Where the hell is he going to get the money?
07:57Where is he going to find the money to pay for this?
07:58None of this is costed.
08:00Green Party, our manifesto, our spending plans, all costed.
08:04I believe all of the parties' manifesto pledges are costed.
08:08But reform, none of this is costed.
08:10They're not telling us where they're going to find the money for this.
08:13All we hear is, are we going to close asylum hotels?
08:17Are we going to rein back on net zero?
08:21Net zero actually brings in money from many councils.
08:23So that's not going to be beneficial at all.
08:27This is for the birds.
08:29And, Claire, I have to ask you, where does the Conservative Party go from here?
08:32For the last time we had a leader who was socially Conservative but a big spender,
08:37we're thinking someone like Boris Johnson, who did really well at the general election in 2019,
08:43perhaps less so in government.
08:45But it does raise the question, where does the Conservative Party go from here?
08:49If the little Democrats are muscling into that one-nation space and you have a leader like Nigel Farage promising big hits on immigration,
08:59while lots of public investment, you probably don't really have anyone to go, does it?
09:04I think the one thing we've got at the moment is some clear blue water between us and reform when it comes to the two-child cap.
09:12The Conservatives have consistently said that they wouldn't reverse it.
09:15It is there and it is relatively popular amongst the public.
09:18I think there's an awful lot of rhetoric around it.
09:21People are getting it confused with child benefit, which it isn't.
09:24This is part of universal credit.
09:26And I think there are an awful lot of people who still support keeping it in.
09:29So that's the one bit of clear blue water we've currently got.
09:33But it's interesting, as Mark said, none of this is costed from Nigel Farage.
09:36He's coming out with things he would like to do.
09:38Well, there's lots of things I would like to do.
09:40It doesn't mean I have the cash to do it.
09:42If you don't get receipts into the country, you can't spend that money.
09:46And this is where the scrutiny comes in.
09:47And reform are going to be under incredible scrutiny now for the councils that they run,
09:52but also for all of the promises they're currently making in Westminster.
09:56People are keeping a record and they will be totting it up.
09:58If he can't deliver that, then I'm afraid his hopes of being into number 10 are dashed.
10:04I have to ask, because he is, to all intents and purposes, he may deny it,
10:09he is a populist.
10:10He is appealing to popular opinion.
10:14That would be a pretty arguable statement to make.
10:17But it's something we've heard a lot about in the Green Party as well at the moment.
10:20During your leadership contest, we're hearing the word eco-populism banding about.
10:25Are your party just taking a leaf out of a reforms book?
10:28Well, I think you can see there that they've taken a leaf out of our book.
10:32We don't change our policies.
10:33We are consistent.
10:34We don't flip-flop.
10:36We have a set of values and policies.
10:40And fundamental to that is actually having climate justice.
10:43We need to deliver for the people who need support most.
10:49And that is fundamental to us.
10:51So, as much as he might like to offer up these simple solutions to very complex problems and questions,
10:59yet he can't deliver on this.
11:01The party is very, very thin when it comes to actual policy.
11:08It's quite a vacuum.
11:09Well, not anymore.
11:10We've seen them announce a whole raft of policies earlier this week.
11:13I think you've got the uncosted two-child cap.
11:20Now you've got them talking about reversing the pensioners' fuel allowance.
11:25This is just adding up again and again.
11:28I think what it is is their headline facts rather than sort of documented ideas of what they want to do.
11:34They haven't got anything to back it up.
11:35So you get one or two sentences sent out to the media and say,
11:38this is what we're going to do, isn't it great?
11:40But the detail to back it up just isn't there.
11:42And talking of details, we have more politics news
11:45and stuff about the police and crime statistics from this week after the break.
14:55Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live here on KMTV,
15:13the show that gets Kent's politicians talking.
15:15Still joining me are Claire Pearson, political commentator and former Conservative government advisor
15:21and Green Town with your morning and Kent County Councillor Mark Hood.
15:26Now, crime in Kent has hit a four-year low, according to new figures shared with the Kent Police and Crime Commissioner.
15:32But do residents of KMTV, do residents feel safer?
15:38Well, I caught up with the Commissioner Matthew Scott to find out.
15:43A 10% cut in crime over four years.
15:49The big headline, the big headlines, the big headlines, the big headlines.
15:57Not the catchiest name in the world, but these meetings are the elected commissioners' main way of holding the Chief Constable to account to see if Kent Police are delivering.
16:10We've seen crime, we've seen crime, we've seen crime, we've seen crime, we've seen crime fall by 10% over the last four years.
16:13In real terms, that means 15,000 fewer victims of crime and they're addressing the issues that matter.
16:20They attended 98% of burglaries, burglary fell by 27%, robberies are down and rural thefts are down as well.
16:27So, some really positive progress.
16:29We're not complacent because there's still some more work to do in order to bring crime down further, but a real step in the right direction.
16:36It's not all positive, however, with shoplifting, sexual offences and fraud seeing a sharp spike in the last year.
16:48But we've still got some work to do around some issues of trust and a lot of that is around the visibility of policing.
16:53It's about victims getting outcomes and justice being seen to be done as well.
16:58So, we're working on all of those things as well together, a partnership between my office, the police and also those other agencies who are responsible,
17:05like the CPS and the courts, to make sure that we continue to build on those step changes.
17:10With a new police and crime plan in place and the force putting 65 new neighbourhood officers on the street,
17:20all eyes will now be on the force and the commissioner to see if they can deliver.
17:29Oli Lieder in Maidstone.
17:32Well, according to Matthew there, a rare Conservative success this year because those crime statistics do seem to be lower for the most part.
17:39It is quite interesting and I do think that Matthew Scott has done a good job holding the police to account
17:44and making sure that more crimes are investigated, but it really will come down to the public's perception of that.
17:50If you're a victim of crime, it doesn't matter what stats are put in front of you, that is a crime that has affected you
17:56and therefore you want to see some justice.
17:58And I think there are an awful lot, especially in more rural areas, of what's counted as petty crime,
18:04as in car crime, antisocial behaviour, that still looks to be ignored by the police
18:09and we're not seeing a visible presence, especially in the village that I live in.
18:14And that's what people will take to the polling booths.
18:17They will understand that crime will take precedent over whether the police are going to come out to your burglary
18:24or to the antisocial behaviour.
18:26Are they going to come out and see you or are they not?
18:29And that makes a massive difference to people.
18:32Can they see it being done?
18:33And do they see those people doing the wrong thing being put in prison?
18:36And 65 new neighbourhood officers are on the beat at the moment.
18:40That's part of a new scheme.
18:41Mark, you represent a rural area.
18:44You understand the intricacies of rural crime in Tunbridge and Morling.
18:49Do you think that people do feel that the statistics reflect the reality of their lives?
18:56I think the headline figure is encouraging.
18:59I think when you dive into them, I think the picture is somewhat different.
19:03In Tunbridge and Morling, we've got a 13% increase in fly tipping.
19:07I think Matthew Scott himself has said that actually this kind of environmental crime
19:12is actually massively problematic for the entire county.
19:16I think Canterbury is up by 30%.
19:19So if you see your lanes littered by this fly tipping and you see Hodeswood, East Church as well,
19:28where you've had mass fly tipping, it's basically commercial criminality,
19:35then it's not such a rosy picture.
19:38And I'm really alarmed by the 8% rise in sexual offences as well.
19:43We know that violence against women and girls is a massive problem.
19:46It's an escalating problem.
19:48We've got huge challenges in KCC have been trying to do their best to challenge this,
19:56especially amongst young people.
19:58So that's to be commendous.
19:59So more partnership working with that would be good.
20:02And obviously fraud.
20:04There's an increase, I think, 11% in fraud.
20:07Doorstep fraud, fraud on the internet, fraud over the phone is a massive concern.
20:13And if you've been a victim, that can have massive repercussions for your mental health and your well-being.
20:20Being able to live independently, it destroys lives.
20:23I think with these things, it's always quite complicated.
20:26Fraud, for example.
20:27Lots of people doing the fraud live abroad.
20:30With the rural crime, an overall 26.1% decrease since 2021 across the entirety of Kent,
20:37even though there are serious concerns about that organised fly tipping.
20:41And domestic abuse has also seen a decrease according to the statistics.
20:46But I think it does raise a lot of questions.
20:49Do you think that when people see numbers or hear numbers and they...
20:54Do you think that it doesn't necessarily cut through?
20:57Do you think there needs to be more done to kind of make people aware of what the police are doing,
21:03of how they can report crime?
21:05Because also, lots of these crimes, they get underreported as well.
21:08I think that's half the problem, is that the majority of people won't report some crimes
21:14because they think it isn't worth it.
21:15They're not going to get the police presence in the area to deal with it, so they don't bother.
21:20And I think you can put the statistics out all you like.
21:22And yes, it is a positive picture that things are going in the right direction.
21:26But if you are a victim of crime, you're not going to care that those numbers are decreasing
21:31because what's happened to you is very personal.
21:33It affects your life.
21:34It could affect your livelihood if you're talking about tools from a van, for example,
21:38or your tractor being taken.
21:40So those kind of things.
21:41So it's the perception of it.
21:42I do think we need more police out there, and I welcome more community support officers,
21:47but they actually have to be more visible.
21:49And do you think...
21:50Because I think it's really interesting what you said about the perception, the feeling.
21:54Do you think there's a sense from victims of crime and communities
21:59that they're kind of being overlooked and forgotten,
22:03that victims aren't necessarily being treated with the due care they deserve?
22:07Well, I think the...
22:09I was on the Kent Police and Crime Panel
22:10when they introduced the neighbourhood policing model,
22:14which meant that every ward, every neighbourhood has got an officer allocated to them.
22:20So they changed the model so we've got less community support officers now.
22:26I think that model, it has bedded in pretty well, actually.
22:31So everybody should know who their police officer is.
22:34Everyone should be able to contact them to make them aware.
22:37Obviously, it's massively reliant on people actually doing the hard work,
22:44being visible, being seen.
22:46We see people, we see policemen out on their bikes in Tunbridge.
22:51We have got a pretty good idea who they are.
22:53We've got...
22:53Personally, our councillors have got good relations with our officers,
22:59but it takes a lot of hard work,
23:01and visibility is absolutely key.
23:04One thing that we have seen,
23:06and it does tie into a national debate raging,
23:08in the last 12 months, to January 2025,
23:12there has been an 18.8% increase in drug offences,
23:16with the possession of cannabis seeing a 14.2% increase.
23:20Now, this ties in with what the Mayor of London is saying
23:22about decriminalisation of possession,
23:26as the London Drugs Commission found a disproportionate use
23:29of stop-and-search powers in black communities,
23:32and they said that decriminalising possession for personal use
23:35might help address this.
23:38Claire, what do you think of this policy?
23:41Obviously, we're hearing what the Commission is saying.
23:43We're seeing that drug increase and possession
23:46is happening in the county.
23:48Do you think it should be decriminalised?
23:50No.
23:51No, it absolutely shouldn't.
23:52This is the one thing that I think is the most ridiculous thing
23:54the Mayor of London has said,
23:56and I was very, very pleased to see the Home Office
23:58pushing back to say they absolutely wouldn't consider
24:00reclassification of cannabis, and neither should they.
24:04It is awful when you go to London.
24:06I worked there, I was up there this week,
24:08and the smell of cannabis on the streets,
24:11people openly smoking it, because there are no repercussions.
24:14So it's almost like it's been decriminalised already.
24:17I don't want to see that spread out.
24:18For an awful lot of people, that is a way into criminality.
24:22You look at county lines gangs,
24:24you look at young people getting involved in it,
24:26and once you decide that cannabis is fine to be decriminalised,
24:30what's next?
24:31Which drug group are we going to go to after that?
24:33So, no, I think that we need to leave this well alone
24:35and actually look at the repercussions for people
24:38in possession of large amounts and growing it,
24:42and look at the enforcement that we already have the law for
24:45and make it happen.
24:47Decriminalisation, Mark?
24:48Will it send the country to pot?
24:51Has it worked?
24:52Has criminalisation worked?
24:54It hasn't worked.
24:55When you look at examples where it's been decriminalised,
24:59it has been relatively successful.
25:01When you look at it in America,
25:03there's whole states where it's been successful.
25:05What I'd like to see is I'd like to see the sale licensed
25:10so that people know what they're smoking
25:12because there's a whole world of difference
25:13between the kind of things that people are smoking
25:16when I was an adolescent
25:17and the stuff that people are smoking now.
25:19So people are smoking skunk now,
25:22which has got incredibly high levels of HTC.
25:26If you are smoking something like that,
25:29there's much higher chances of you having issues
25:31with your mental health.
25:34And I think that is a major concern for me.
25:38I think that if people knew what they were smoking,
25:41if it was licensed,
25:43then I think you'd have a little bit more control
25:47over it at the moment.
25:49The only people making any money out of this
25:51at the moment are the crime gangs.
25:54Claire, you don't seem particularly happy about this.
25:56No, I'm not, because there is evidence to suggest
25:59that it changes the brain chemistry in young people.
26:02So more young people are smoking it
26:03and their mental health is becoming worse because of it.
26:07So I think if you start legalising it
26:08and you say to people,
26:09it's absolutely fine, there's no problem.
26:10But we allow alcohol.
26:11There's a link to 40% of the body of the sexes.
26:13And if alcohol was bought in today,
26:15if somebody had this new substance that said,
26:17look, here's alcohol, it would be banned.
26:19It would guarantee the same as tobacco.
26:20But should we ban it based on...
26:22I don't think...
26:23The problem is it is illegal.
26:25So why don't we just enforce the laws that we already have?
26:28I don't want to see more young people
26:30suffering with bad mental health.
26:31I don't want to see it normalised,
26:33smoking around people and gang activities coming from it.
26:37And I don't want to see any more other drugs
26:39coming into the market also being relaxed.
26:41I'm sure we could debate this all day.
26:42But unfortunately, you were saved by the credits.
26:45Thank you both for joining us.
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