Inside YWAM: The Cultish Secrets Behind the Mission - Jed Hartley - Podcast Episode 346 - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

John and Jed discuss the history and inner workings of Youth With A Mission (YWAM), focusing on the blurred line between missions work and cult-like structures. Jed shares firsthand experiences as a former YWAM and IHOP member, raising concerns about the decentralized franchise model of YWAM that allows some bases to operate with extreme behaviors. John brings in historical research, connecting the youth evangelism strategies of YWAM to earlier movements influenced by militaristic and authoritarian models. The discussion includes references to Billy Graham, Nazi youth parallels, and the ideological motivations behind global Christian outreach.  As the conversation progresses, the hosts explore how YWAM’s fervent expansionism has allowed high-demand environments to flourish, particularly where young, untrained leaders operate without accountability. The episode also touches on the role of Christian Dominionism, Seven Mountains Mandate rhetoric, and the deeper sociopolitical implications of spreading such ideologies worldwide. Jed recounts backroom strategy sessions with national leaders and church figures like Che Ahn and Lauren Cunningham, suggesting that what appears to be grassroots missions work may reflect a broader, coordinated effort to influence global and political structures. The episode ends with plans to explore YWAM’s overlap with Latter Rain theology in a future discussion.  00:00 Introduction 01:25 Personal Ties to YWAM and Firsthand Experience 06:04 Youth Programs, Indoctrination, and Historical Comparisons 12:19 Decentralized Control and Cult-Like Behavior 20:17 Dangers of Missions, Isolation, and Spiritual Extremism 29:01 Global Expansion and the Role of Propaganda 36:17 Financial Support, Public Perception, and Home Church Involvement 43:01 Christian Nationalism and Behind-the-Scenes Political Strategy 50:00 Dominionism, Theocracy, and the Seven Mountains Mandate 53:30 Closing Reflections and Set-Up for Next Episode  Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts: https://william-branham.org/podcast   Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR: Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962 Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.

00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research

00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host and friend, Jed Hartley, son of

00:47a prophet and former member of the International House of Prayer.

00:51Jed, it's good to be back, and we teased that we were talking about YWAM today.

00:56For anybody who doesn't know, it's Youth with a Mission, and there's a lot that we can

01:03talk about.

01:03I don't know that we could even talk about all of it in one single podcast episode, but

01:08it was connected to the International House of Prayer in ways, and it's connected to other

01:14things in various ways, which I've talked about some in my videos, and it's interesting the

01:20number of comments and emails that I get whenever I do.

01:24I have this detector.

01:26Whenever I put a comment out about a specific group, I can always detect whenever it has

01:33gone to a level of being a cult, and sometimes whether it's a destructive cult, by the type

01:39of feedback that I get.

01:40Because you see all of the people just suddenly flood.

01:43No, no, no, we need to conceal this history.

01:46We need to cover this up.

01:48This person was a good person, so don't say anything that is factual about them.

01:52Usually, there's something wrong here.

01:54And I have to say that, you know, I'm not going to outright call it a cult, but I will

01:59say that many of the comments that I get about YWAM are very, very interesting.

02:03Yeah, well, and we might need to update your bio of me, because former member of the International

02:13House of Prayer, I also was a former member of YWAM for quite a few years, as was a lot

02:20of people, because as we will get into, YWAM is incredibly broad, and it's not like these

02:28other churches where it's one centralized location, it really was like a franchise, is the only

02:35way that I can kind of put it, is that it was, it is and continues to be one of the most

02:42prominent evangelical or charismatic evangelistic missions movements that I'm aware of, certainly,

02:54that, you know, that YWAM was the most prominent, you know, if you think about missionaries and

03:00and the, especially the charismatic world, raising up ministry or missionaries, you think

03:07of YWAM.

03:08There's so much history there, too.

03:10Like, you can find some of this out there if you search and know where to search, but

03:15a lot of people are just kind of scared to say it.

03:18But, yeah, whenever Hitler did what he did in Germany and created the, you know, the

03:25Nazi youth, all of these things, there's some really good movies about those, that program

03:29that was set up.

03:30But what happened is Hitler indoctrinated a nation, and it was fascinating after people

03:36realized what he had done, and they wanted to know how and why.

03:40And there are some research articles out there.

03:43I'm working with another guy who is sending me some really good stuff that I'm still processing.

03:49But it seems the evangelicals wanted to replicate what was happening there, but use it for purposes

03:58of good in their mind, right?

04:00So they're creating youth programs, and, you know, if Hitler can sway the nation towards

04:06Nazism, maybe we can sway it towards Christianity.

04:08It's not that that's a bad idea, but how far do you go with replicating what he did?

04:14Because what he did was very immoral and not really compatible with Christianity.

04:21And the timing of it is interesting.

04:24Whenever the guy first sent me all of the information that he had on, you know, these

04:29connections and their weird connections, I kind of discredit it because, no, I'm not going

04:35to connect YWAM to Hitler.

04:37That's probably a bad idea.

04:38I'm probably going to get a lot of negative feedback, more than I'm getting.

04:42However, I did continue to read as he continued to send it, and I started piecing together the

04:49timeline, and it gets really, really weird.

04:51Because Pentecostalism, for example, you have this structure where only the men can be ministers

04:59in most cases.

05:00I don't think back in the 40s, I don't think there were any legitimate female ministers.

05:05I think it all had to be men.

05:07And because of the hierarchy and structure, they had to be very controlling in their doctrine.

05:13They were coming up against an opposition of social movements that you really had to be

05:18rigid in what you preached.

05:21Yet they were letting 10-year-olds preach to captive audiences in Pentecostalism.

05:26Little David is one.

05:27I can't remember the name of the others, but there's more than one.

05:31Jim Jones joined into the Pentecostal movement because of the youth programs, and he started

05:37holding his own youth programs.

05:39Billy Graham held his own youth program.

05:41So everybody's kind of getting into this.

05:43But then where it gets really problematic is you start to see some of them turning into

05:50destructive cults.

05:51Not all.

05:52You know, Billy Graham's youth programs, I haven't read anything yet that suggested it

05:57was destructive.

05:57But there are others that did, and they turned into weird cults that spun off of them.

06:04So when you look at all of the history of this, and then now merge the timeline of what we

06:10have with the timeline of YWAM, and later on introducing the Seven Mountain Mandates into

06:16their program, this gets really weird.

06:19I think that when I was thinking about how to prepare for this, and when I've talked with

06:25people either from the various churches that we've already talked about, or the various

06:32communities that we've already talked about, you know, when you tell someone who grew up at

06:37IHOP, well, maybe not anymore, because there's not as many people who are as defensive of

06:43IHOP anymore.

06:44But, you know, five, 10 years ago, if I had told someone that I think that the International

06:50House of Prayer is cult, there's this sort of bristling defensiveness, because people will

06:58have, oh, good memories, bad memories, you know, they have commitment and emotional, even

07:04if they are like, you know, I don't like some of the teachings there, and I've left it and

07:09may not have the best feelings towards this community, calling it a cult is just a different

07:15level of intensity, and that can draw the ire of a lot of individuals.

07:20And I think that more than just like a strategy of how to talk to these people, I think a good

07:27way of conceptualizing it is that there are a lot of red flags and a lot of cult-like behavior,

07:36cult-like tendencies, cult-like teachings that I, of course, and you yourself, John, grew

07:44up in communities that adopted a lot of these cult-like tendencies.

07:48And so instead of thinking of it as like a cut-and-dry, you're either a cult or you're

07:53a Christian community that's totally fine, you know, like, it's a spectrum of things.

07:58And this is how it is if you were diagnosing somebody with narcissistic personality disorder,

08:03you know, or there's like a spectrum of these concerning behaviors, and usually it's after a

08:11certain amount of these concerning red flags that you can like actually diagnose it as

08:17narcissistic personality disorder or, you know, like a cult in this case.

08:23So with YWAM, I think there are so many different, with the way that it raised up and created

08:35and the mandate of trying to spread it as quickly and fast as possible, and we'll talk about this

08:43more, but some of the mechanisms of YWAM are to church plant with young people.

08:50So you have young people training, young people training, young people, you know, it's a Russian

08:54doll situation of like baby Christians teaching baby Christians teaching, you know, and just going

09:01out, especially internationally, where they're, they just won a foothold in all of these different

09:06places.

09:07And so it has leaned less on particular systems and more of just like, let's get this out there

09:15as quickly as possible.

09:16And with that lack of structure and accountability, all you have had a bunch of these hotbeds for

09:26different cult-like behaviors to grow up very quickly because there isn't a whole lot of

09:32structures of accountability and whatnot.

09:35So when we're talking about YWAM, in my personal opinion, I think that there are many, many cults

09:45within YWAM at different bases.

09:48I think different bases have different levels of like how deeply they are into, like how

09:58authoritarian is the leadership of the base?

10:00How much is it like us versus them mentality?

10:04How much is there like an excessive focus on like the specific teachings of the individual

10:10who is leading that community?

10:13Like there's, I think there's a bunch of different questions and you might go to your

10:16local YWAM and be like, you know, it's fine.

10:19They, they're, it's a youth movement.

10:21There's a few of these red flags, but like generally it's pretty safe.

10:25They have good procedures in place for, you know, accountability and whatnot.

10:30And then you might go to another one and realize like, this is a full-fledged cult.

10:34This is just, you know, people on the base are being controlled in every way possible.

10:40And it's hard to talk about, like, I, I have so many friends, um, that I still like really

10:48respect and admire who were either in YWAM or are still in YWAM.

10:54And like, I know that there will probably be some backlash of speaking up against, um,

11:00uh, some of the, the cult-like behaviors in YWAM because like, there's a lot of people

11:05who really hold YWAM sacred to, uh, to this day, um, and who are good, you know, good friends

11:13of mine.

11:13But the reality is, is that, yeah, we, there's just too many red flags.

11:19There's too, the way that it was created, the way that it continues to exist.

11:23Like, there's just a lot of things that, that frankly need to be addressed for it to be

11:27considered.

11:28Like if, if someone was asking me, Hey, my, my son or daughter is going to join this YWAM

11:35base.

11:36I would be like, I, I would want them to pause and think about it because there's just a

11:42lot.

11:42I'm not saying it's not like, it's not like IHOP where I'm like, shut the whole thing

11:47down.

11:47If anyone's going to IHOP, I'm like, no, it's just not great.

11:50Like it just, there was extreme abuse going on behind the scenes.

11:55And this thing needs to be, you know, shut down from, I don't have that level of conviction

12:00with YWAM, but I certainly have all of these red flags that, that give me significant pause.

12:06Um, but yeah, tell me, tell me more about the, how your, your research on how it kind

12:13of like was formed and some of those questionable.

12:16Yeah.

12:17The interesting part of this is, like I said, it, it bears so many striking similarities

12:22to all of the other groups.

12:24And I don't, you know, you can't say that it drew upon direct descendants from Branham

12:30ism or anything like this, but it's happening at the same time as a, as a parallel universe

12:37that's being created for some similarities in strategic purpose.

12:41I think that's the best way that I would say this and they're drawing upon many of the

12:45same influences, which as a society for its era, I think would be common widespread like

12:52Billy Graham, his Billy Graham youth for Christ.

12:55I think it's called that whatever, whatever his group was called, they also bore many striking

13:01similarities, but it all really comes down to the structure and agenda.

13:04The structure is we want to children to help other children, learn, grow, become like us.

13:12And again, I'm not going to use the reference too much, but I'll bring it up one more time.

13:17It's very much like the Hitler youth.

13:19The Hitler youth program was established in that same way, let the children indoctrinate

13:24the other children.

13:25And for me, that's where the, that's where the line gets really fuzzy because there was,

13:31and there's no way to stop it.

13:33There was a level of indoctrination.

13:35There had to be because your kids teaching kids and, and like you said, you can't really

13:41apply the same level of criticism across the board because their kids teaching kids.

13:47There were obviously some adults who were kind of mentoring and guiding and overseeing to

13:53some extent, but adults can't control what kids say when they're out of the adult tier.

14:00That's how children work, man.

14:02So you can't really control where this goes.

14:04That's why actually the Hitler youth programs were so popular and so powerful.

14:09They were able to indoctrinate in ways that Hitler himself never could.

14:13But, and that structure, just in hindsight, the structure is very, it's concerning.

14:20I think that's the way that I'll put it.

14:22But as far as cult or not cult, you can't apply it to across the board.

14:27However, my wife uses the term high demand group.

14:31And I have had, I can't remember when this was, it was a few months back, but we had a

14:37lady who had escaped YWAM.

14:39Um, she was saying many things that she brought up as clear signs that her group had, was probably

14:47destructive or at least was withholding information that it shouldn't have.

14:51Um, I can't remember if she used the word cult or not, but what she was describing essentially

14:56was a very high demand group.

14:58And that label can be used on a cult.

15:01A cult can be a high demand group and it can demand your emotions.

15:04And sometimes your physical activities, your time, your money, it can be very demanding

15:09when you're in one.

15:11Well, the time and the physical activity, many people overlook in a cult.

15:16So whenever we published her story, it came out on one of our, our story Fridays.

15:22I watched some of the feedback from other people who were in YWAM from different regions and

15:29they would completely deny or reject some of the things that she actually literally experienced

15:35because in their part of the world and their little group, the flow of influence was slightly

15:42different.

15:42So their experience was different.

15:44And so while one group may have cult like tendencies, the other one may not, but that's the nature

15:51of it.

15:52You look at, again, look at the Hitler youth programs.

15:55Some of them turned into military forces and they were, they were supplying their military

16:00with these people, other, other groups.

16:03I mean, the way that it works, children are, are indoctrinating children.

16:07So the way it works, you can't control the outcome of the whole thing.

16:12But while that's, you know, as far as labeling it as a destructive cult, that's in its favor.

16:18It's also very scary, man, because it's like a train going down the tracks with no rails.

16:23Where, where's this thing headed?

16:25You know?

16:26Yeah, absolutely.

16:27Yeah.

16:28There, it, and there isn't this sort of like clear, um, doctrine of what, what the goal is.

16:35I mean, the goal is very, very broad in, I, Lauren Cunningham, the, the, uh, leader and

16:42who, who established YWAM, who I'm, I met and spent time with, um, in, cause I was on

16:48the base in Kona and, you know, I, I don't, I'm not speaking against him personally as

16:54a person.

16:55He seemed like he had good high character and everything like that, but his vision was

17:00this very generic, very like, we just need to get Christianity to the ends of all the

17:07earth.

17:07You know, it was this sort of like very simple, very, um, expansionistic, um, and I, uh, there's

17:16a lot of problems with it, um, from like, uh, a social politics, um, perspective of just

17:23like proselytizing and infantilizing, um, but that's, you know, that's going to be true

17:28with a lot of these missions movements.

17:31So there's some like generic criticisms that you could, um, put towards YWAM, but you could

17:38also put that towards really any missions movement, um, that's going on.

17:44But specifically, I think that it was just so, it was so intense on just like, we need

17:49to get there.

17:50There was this sort of like consequentialist perspective on how we get there.

17:58If who, you know, if, if you, uh, crack some eggs, who cares sort of thing.

18:04And that was always the frame of reference with that was always, you know, if people get

18:09in trouble, if people, if we're in, um, regions of the world where you can get put in prison

18:16or you can have, you know, some, um, really serious backlash against you, um, you can, you

18:24know, it's dangerous.

18:25This was sort of like, it goes with the territory.

18:27Like, this is what we're doing.

18:28We're missionaries.

18:29And it was this sort of like, um, old school view of missionaries where it's like, if you,

18:35if we put kids in danger, like, so be it for, for the glory of God.

18:40Um, and again, I, I understand, you know, if, if you really believe in the mission, I understand

18:47why people do that and want to be a part of that.

18:49But I think that there was a lot of ways that students were being put in danger, not

18:56just in so far as they are missionaries and they're going to, you know, territories where

19:02they shouldn't, shouldn't be going and it isn't safe, but also not safe within the community

19:08itself, sending missionaries out to isolated individuals where they are led by someone who's

19:17two years older than them, um, who has been, you know, four years previously was a drug addict

19:23and just, you know, converted to Christianity or even, it's not even necessarily that they

19:29had to be a drug addict in the past.

19:32They could have been, you know, whatever, but it's, it, it's just, there was not a whole lot

19:35of accountability and structure.

19:37And so like, I've heard many horror stories of things that are happening when you're on

19:43outreach, um, you're just kind of out there by yourself and you got to really trust the

19:50group that you're with.

19:51And some groups were really trustworthy, some great individuals, others, not so much.

19:56Um, and especially because they were, um, holding a lot of these really problematic beliefs,

20:04um, similar to like the Bethel and IHOP views on like prophecy and spiritual manifestations,

20:13not all of YWAM is like this, but like, there are definitely sects or subsects of YWAM that

20:20are hyper spiritual where there is prophecy.

20:23So like, let's say that you're on a missions movement, you're in rural, you know, Uganda,

20:31and you have someone within your community of like 10, 20 something year olds who are doing

20:41this mission movement in Uganda, who want the leader of the group, who's some 24 year old

20:47believes that he's starting to get prophecies about things that he ought to do in that group

20:53and crosses sexual boundaries, crosses, um, uh, boundaries of like, just putting people

21:02in danger for no good reason.

21:04Um, having really, uh, uh, intense expectations of like, we are going to fast.

21:10We are going to pray.

21:11We are going to, um, get up at 6 AM and go to bed at, you know, 1 AM because we're going

21:18to be interceding for this nation.

21:20Um, the sort of radicalism that is launched through YWAM can be extremely terrifying and

21:28dangerous.

21:29And I, and I've definitely seen some of these, um, like, this is not just me making fictionalizing

21:35horror stories.

21:36Like there are a lot of different indication, you know, I personally know individuals who

21:42have experienced to some degree, this level of like, I was just out there on my own suddenly

21:48under the leadership of someone who had really leaned into a lot of these latter rain belief

21:55systems that are dangerous in, uh, non-isolated communities to then be in a very isolated community

22:04where you have very little contact with your friends and family.

22:07You have very little contact with like your home church.

22:10You have very little interaction with people who even speak your language, um, which, and

22:16just to back up a little bit and to give for people who don't know what YWAM is and how

22:22it's structured, a quick, um, overview is that they basically have outreach programs, which

22:30are, uh, I might be forgetting the time period, but they're, they're very short.

22:35It's like, you go to a base.

22:39So like Kona, Hawaii was the biggest, is the biggest base, I think, um, for YWAM and that's

22:45where, uh, Lauren Cunningham resided.

22:47And that was where I went.

22:49Um, and I spent like six months there at the base where you get trained up, you get taught

22:56different missions, Christianity sort of minded stuff.

23:01It isn't very structured.

23:04It isn't like we're going through this textbook.

23:08These are the central, uh, tenants of our faith.

23:11It's, we have different people come in and speak to the group.

23:15So you're kind of like, whatever you're taught is, um, it's relatively, uh, determined by whatever

23:25speakers are coming in during that six month period.

23:28But you get trained and then after those six months period where you're trained, you get

23:34launched where you go on outreach to someplace, usually overseas, um, usually international.

23:42Um, and like I went to Dharamsala, India.

23:46Um, so I was way up in the like foothills of the Himalayas, um, preaching to Buddhist monks,

23:52um, about Christianity with my like little outreach team.

23:57And for me, like it actually wasn't a horrible experience.

24:00Like I went, spoke with the Buddhist monks, realized I didn't know anything.

24:04And that was a good transformative experience for me.

24:07So like no harm, no foul for sort of my experiences.

24:11But what kind of what I was saying there is that like during that outreach time, you're

24:17off on your own.

24:18You're not a part of like a local congregation.

24:21And some maybe connect with like local congregations, but you very much are kind of Christian pioneers

24:29and kind of old school Christian missionary.

24:33Um, and usually it's being led by 20 year olds, early 30 year olds.

24:39It's not being led by individuals who have been a part of a very well established long

24:45tradition of Christianity.

24:46It's a lot of like, uh, people who are just getting in the thick of it.

24:51And it's that very structure that makes the outside look in and wonder, is this a cult?

24:57I mean, think of it.

24:59So you're going into other countries.

25:01I don't know if you do, but I have had to work with many people of different cultures

25:06and religions and faiths and not faiths.

25:09And when you're dealing with another culture, it's not like you can simply come in and say,

25:14Hey, I'm a Christian.

25:15And then they suddenly join in.

25:18Right.

25:18So the mind of a child who's coming into a territory isn't going to be the one who's

25:23literally converting.

25:24So you have to wonder what is the strategy there?

25:28If there's a strategic purpose, what is it?

25:30And why is it?

25:31Why, why are they doing this?

25:33Right.

25:33Uh, I could assure you that the, I've been to, I have a neighbor who is Asian Indian and

25:40I have been to many of their ceremonies where they come in with all of the, they're all

25:45wearing the Indian garb and it's really cool.

25:47The food is phenomenal.

25:49I mean, the best food I've ever eaten, but I can assure you that if my child were to walk

25:55into this meeting and say, Hey, I'm a Christian, I'm going to tell you about Jesus.

25:59There's no way on earth that a single person is going to be converted to them.

26:03So what's the strategy?

26:05And so let's think of this from the perspective of somebody who isn't in it, who is in one

26:12of these territories.

26:13You see these people come in, what in the world are they doing?

26:16And so any government who has any sense is going to look and see what is their agenda?

26:22Who are these people?

26:23What are they doing in our territory?

26:25And they go find things like, I don't, you may not know this history, but they're the

26:31YWAM group is connected to the Fellowship Foundation, the family, which is connected

26:36to Branhamism.

26:38So there, I guess there is a flow of connection there, but one of the most infamous things

26:44that is in the history of the family, the Fellowship Foundation is this house on C street

26:50where they were having senators were coming there and they, they were having all kinds of

26:56sexual parties and things happening in this house.

26:59And the family was apparently helping allegedly, I should say, allegedly helping to cover this

27:05up.

27:06Hillary Clinton visited the C street house.

27:09Michael Jackson visited the C street house, senators after senator, congressman, et cetera.

27:15And they're going to this house where it is openly known that there are sexual activities

27:20in this house.

27:21So this turned into an infamous house that house was owned by YWAM and was transferred

27:26over to the family.

27:27So a foreign nation who sees that, wait a minute, this is connected to the family.

27:33Those are the people that are trying to control and influence Washington through this weird

27:38cult that exists in Washington, DC influencing the senators.

27:42You mean that's connected here?

27:44And so, although it's conspiracy theory, there are no proven links.

27:49They can easily read the same newspapers that I did and find this.

27:53So you see these people moving into a territory.

27:56And then the next thing you see is, wait a minute, they're all kids.

28:01There aren't enough adults to have an intellectual conversation that is persuasive enough to convert

28:09the region into Christianity.

28:12So then you're thinking, well, why are they doing this?

28:14Are they planning to grow a commune here and set up a compound?

28:17That's the next thought that's logically going to come in your head.

28:20And maybe they have.

28:21I don't know.

28:22But as an outsider looking in, these are the questions that they would be asking.

28:27And for that reason, people who are in the United States who aren't in this group and

28:32who are skeptically looking at it from the outside, it's the same thoughts that's going

28:37through their head.

28:38What are they doing and why?

28:40This doesn't make any sense.

28:42If there's a strategy here, it's not a good one.

28:45So there must be something ongoing behind the scenes.

28:48And I think that's why there are so many conspiracy theories about YWAM.

28:53What is happening?

28:54What is going on behind the scenes?

28:55Whether there is or not, the structure itself raises all of these questions.

29:00Yeah, totally.

29:01And in my personal opinion, I think that it's a great example of there's a lot of times

29:07where people have conspiracies about someone behind the scenes who is orchestrating a lot

29:13of stuff.

29:14And I think that YWAM is a good example of not an instance in which there is someone who's

29:20pulling strings behind the scene, but just this sort of like when you have an individual

29:24who has like a great and very grandiose vision, and then a lot of other individuals sort of

29:32latch onto that vision, there can be this sort of shotgun situation where everybody's just

29:40doing everything and they're all riding the momentum.

29:43And like, I saw this firsthand with like, I got sucked into the videography and the sort

29:55of, there was this idea that Lauren Cunningham's son, David Cunningham, who was like this Hollywood

30:02director, was going to start creating these movies that were going to bring the Bible back

30:07into popular culture.

30:08And there was this sort of grandiose vision, again, of like, it was with the whole Seven

30:14Mountains mandate and like the Christian dominionism, this idea that like, we just need our type of

30:21Christians, that's not explicitly said, but it's, we need Christians in all spheres of society.

30:28When you step back and you're like, okay, Christians already are in all spheres of society,

30:33especially in Western culture, and have been since like the Renaissance era, like,

30:38you know, Western culture has always been determined by Christian and Catholic movements.

30:44Like, that's just the history of Western civilization.

30:49So when you ask the question of like, well, what do you mean, get Christians in every aspect

30:55of culture, there has to be the like, oh, there's this type of radical Christian that they're trying

31:01to get in every sect of society.

31:05The same thing, like, I remember talking with David about this, of being like, what do you

31:10mean the Bible back in popular culture?

31:12Like, I remember I was in, I was in Hawaii, right after Les Mis, the musical with Anne Hathaway,

31:23and, and, oh, I'm forgetting his name, Hugh Jackman, and, you know, this big spectacle.

31:30Well, like, Les Mis is an explicitly Christian story.

31:33Like, it is thoroughly a Christian story about like, forgiveness and redemption, and it's like

31:40one of the best, like, classic Christian stories.

31:45That is like, you can watch it and be not a Christian and still appreciate it.

31:49But like, it is quite clearly very, like, high character, high Christian values, and was

31:56written by a Christian author.

31:58And, you know, and so, and then I go back to this community that's like, we, oh, popular

32:04culture is just like, so, Christianity has been, is so, popular culture is so devoid of Christianity.

32:15And I'm like, the most popular movie of this last, like, cycle was literally a Christian

32:21film.

32:22Like, what are we, what are we doing?

32:24And do we have to create our own little Christian bubble and make it all of it only, the only

32:32people working it on, on it are Christians and only this type of Christians.

32:36And so it was this sort of like, what are we trying to accomplish?

32:39What are we trying to do?

32:40And again, I don't think that there was like, I don't think David or Lauren Cunningham were

32:46behind the scenes being like, we're going to make a bunch of money by pulling these

32:51people in, or we're going to have these sort of like, political strings that we are going

32:58to be pulling at this point.

33:00I think they just had this general vision of like, it's good to get, it's good to get

33:05our message out.

33:05It's good to get our message out in every way that we can.

33:08And David was like, oh, I want to do that as a filmmaker.

33:12And a lot of people sort of rallied behind it.

33:14And it was just this sort of like, all vision, no, no plan.

33:21Just total shotgun of like, you have the grand architect, but you don't have any of the like

33:28building structure.

33:29So it's like, well, let's just put things together and hope that it kind of cobbles

33:33up.

33:33And anybody who's been in YWAM would 100%, even people who are the biggest defenders of

33:38YWAM would know what I'm talking about right now, because it's, it's totally a leap before

33:44you look situation where everybody's just like, catch the vision, go, go, go, go, go think

33:50later.

33:50And when it's all 20 year olds who are doing it, it kind of, I don't want to say works because

33:57it doesn't work.

33:58And there's a lot of people who are left like holding the, the, the bags.

34:02And like when disaster strikes, like, I don't know how they handled COVID.

34:05I don't know how they did these situations.

34:08When like problems arise, you have people who are extremely ill-equipped to handle those

34:13problems because there is no segmented, let's like slow down, let's build, let's have a firm,

34:20you know, let's have a firm theology even before we go.

34:25I mean, so many people were preaching Christianity and had no idea what they were preaching.

34:31And that's this sort of like idea of, of the, having the youth convert the youth mentality

34:38of like, you radicalize young individuals by forcing them to evangelize.

34:47Like that's a, that's a proven method of radicalizing the youth is like, make them convert other

34:53people.

34:54That's why, you know, it's part of the, the Mormon, um, mission is to like, everybody has

35:01to go on missions movement and has to do some of this sort of like evangelizing because there

35:07is, there's few ways more effective to solidify and radicalize, you know, a certain set, set

35:15of beliefs than having someone go out, be isolated, be off on their own that maybe they're not

35:21going to like convert anyone.

35:22You go like, like me, you know, I was in Dharamsala, India.

35:26I wasn't converting any of these Buddhist monks that I was talking to.

35:31Um, and unfortunately it didn't work for me where I started being like, maybe I don't know

35:35what's going on, but for a lot of people, that's not what happens.

35:39What happens is like, you have to deep, you know, you have to like really situate yourself

35:44deep in this sort of cognitive dissonance of being like, I don't know what I'm talking

35:48about, but if I preach with more conviction, I'll feel like I'm knowing what I'm talking

35:52about.

35:52And then I'll preach with more conviction and then I'll feel like, you know, it's just

35:56this cycle of like reaffirming these things that you don't even know you believe, but you

36:02have to sort of make it salient and make it like, uh, solidified as soon as you speak

36:08it out loud.

36:09Um, and it, like, it's a very proven way of, of, um, radicalizing a lot of young individuals.

36:16Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of

36:21modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, charismatic and other fringe

36:26movements into the new apostolic reformation?

36:29You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,

36:34william-branham.org.

36:37On the books page of the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles

36:42Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others with links to the paper, audio, and

36:49digital versions of each book.

36:51You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those

36:56movements.

36:57If you want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute

37:02button at the top.

37:04And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening

37:09to or watching.

37:10On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.

37:15So very few times on here do I give my opinion, but today I think I'm going to give my opinion

37:21because we'll never know all the answers.

37:24There are some things that you would just never know the answer to because we weren't

37:27there.

37:27And interestingly enough, the people who created these sort of things, a lot of times they

37:32don't really have the answers.

37:34They just had some grandiose vision and move forward with it.

37:38And that's funny how that works, but that's usually how that works.

37:42But so here in Jeffersonville, this is the Mecca of the Branham cult.

37:48And here at the Mecca, there is a multimillion dollar building not far from my house where

37:53they, for years and years, I don't know if they're, I guess they're still printing them,

37:57but for years and years, they had all of these printing presses from like the 1950s and they

38:02had this massive staff that was printing, boxing, translating, printing, boxing, translating,

38:08and shipping crates and crates of this printed material overseas to quote unquote spread the

38:14gospel.

38:15And in fact, they were spreading Branhamism.

38:18I never stopped and thought about it.

38:21I just looked at it in awe.

38:22Wow, this is great.

38:23They're doing God's work.

38:24And after leaving, after there, there came a point in which my website and communications

38:34went global and I started getting people who were escaping in other countries.

38:38Some of those people escaped in the destination regions where these crates of books and materials

38:45were sent.

38:45And they said, John, it's really weird.

38:47There's all these books and materials, but there are crates and crates and crates that are

38:52just full.

38:53They're not spreading them as fast as they're sending them.

38:57And so I did a little bit of research and the first thing that I found out that hit

39:01me, the first and largest initiative to spread the quote unquote gospel of William Branham

39:08was in the Spanish speaking regions.

39:11And yet for, it was at that point, almost 50 years.

39:15Not all of the sermons have been translated to Spanish.

39:19And I'm like, what on earth?

39:21Why not?

39:22They've had 50 years to do this and they have Spanish speaking staff who that's their job.

39:28Why on earth have they not done this?

39:29And why are the crates sitting there?

39:31And then the businessman in me kicked in and I slapped myself up the back of my head thinking,

39:37oh my gosh, the whole business strategy, none of it makes sense because you wouldn't print

39:43them here and ship them there.

39:44You would print them there and you would have much less cost.

39:49You've already got the following in the other countries, right?

39:52If I'm printing in India, at that time, I knew the math.

39:56I can't remember what it was.

39:58But they could have reduced their costs by probably 40%, maybe 50% just by printing in

40:05the destination regions.

40:07And that's in the areas that are more civilized.

40:12You could go to other regions and people would do it for free.

40:15It's kind of odd.

40:17But the whole business model didn't make sense.

40:19And then it finally clicked.

40:21But every single person who comes here to Branham Mecca, who sees this operation, is

40:28thinking, glory to God, this thing's going on and we're spreading it.

40:32There is more money to be made by having that structure there so people could come see this

40:39moving, see that they're part of a bigger thing.

40:42And then somebody gave me and instructed me that I had to read the book Propaganda.

40:49How does propaganda work?

40:50I recommend, if you've been in a cult, I recommend you read Propaganda because it is mind-blowing.

40:56You'll understand how you can achieve math psychology, get people to start thinking in a different

41:02way.

41:03All of this makes sense when you look at it.

41:05So as it applies to YWAM, here's this whole structure, none of which makes any sense.

41:11Not absolutely from start to finish, none of it makes sense.

41:15Yeah.

41:15But now, look, don't think of it as a single entity cult.

41:19Remember the New Apostolic Reformation, there's all of these networks, these apostolic networks

41:26that comprise the entire global NAR.

41:30All you have to do is bring this into some sort of convention.

41:33Look at this global work that's happening.

41:36It's the same as the printing presses in the message.

41:38Here's this thing that's happening.

41:40We want to be part of this thing that's happening.

41:42Come sponsor this thing that's happening.

41:43Even if the thing produces no fruit at all outside of the United States, everybody who

41:50sees this kind of thing taking off in these meetings, they're thinking, wow, I'm part

41:55of a bigger thing.

41:56I'm going to continue being part of the bigger thing.

41:58I'm going to contribute to this bigger thing.

42:01So it is my opinion, and you can take it or leave it.

42:05I could be completely wrong with my opinion.

42:07But it's my opinion that the entire entity is more powerful just for the simple fact

42:13that it exists.

42:14Not that it's doing any good.

42:16Not that the strategy makes sense.

42:18But the fact that it exists serves a purpose.

42:21Yeah, that's a very, very astute analysis.

42:26And certainly, that is what's going on when you see these missions movements.

42:35I mean, YWAM is fueled by home churches.

42:39That's how they make any of their money.

42:44The YWAM training itself isn't terribly expensive, but it isn't cheap either.

42:54So you have to go to some base, wherever that may be.

43:04And then you have to pay to be trained.

43:07And then you have to then also pay to then go on this missions trip, which missions trips

43:13are expensive.

43:15And flights to very remote areas of the world, it's expensive.

43:22And typically, everybody in YWAM is poor.

43:25Everybody in YWAM, I mean, they're typically 20-year-olds who have not gone into a career.

43:30So they don't have built-up money from a career.

43:34So they're either being sponsored by their parents or their home churches.

43:38That's a huge thing of like, if you have your small sort of Christian sort of mainline church

43:46that is in your small town, rural town, and they want to be involved in like, they can't

43:52they can't themselves send out missionaries.

43:56They don't have the resources or connections for that.

43:58But they're like, well, if we send these five different young adults to a YWAM base and

44:06then they're launched, we're sort of fueling the global missions movement.

44:14And we are getting people into remote areas of India.

44:19Like, my group, it was very, you know, it was a very appealing thing to tell people like,

44:27we are witnessing in the like, foothills of the Himalayas, where there's like, very little

44:33Christian influence.

44:34And there's all sorts of like, Buddhist and Hindu and Islamic influences, like we are helping

44:42bring a light to what would be a dark place.

44:45This is how we would talk about it.

44:49And like, we were just a bunch of kids who were kind of like, trying to survive in Darvassala,

44:55India.

44:55And like, maybe we did some good, like helped other like, it wasn't like all bad.

44:59But the effect that we were having was pretty minimal.

45:05But it was, I understand why the industry works and the organization works, because like,

45:12it's easy to raise money to be like, we are going and converting the Buddhist monks.

45:18Like, I met the Dalai Lama, I shook his hand.

45:20I did not witness to him when I met him, but I can leave that out of my missions fundraising

45:29letter, you know.

45:32And yeah, I so it's, for lack of a better word, it's sexy to be involved in these like,

45:39grand, oh, we're going to reach every corner of society through these big missions movement.

45:47And you can see how a lot of these like, both when it comes to like, money, and when it comes

45:52to like, young, passion, and zeal, you can understand why like, something like YWAM has

45:58huge, huge, like, connections all across the world.

46:04I mean, if you look, even the most random places, like just think of, you know, if you're listening

46:09to this, think of some random city, the most obscure city you can think of in some random,

46:15you know, country, and then go and Google Maps and see if there's a YWAM base nearby.

46:22And like, chances are, there's going to be a YWAM base that's like, maybe a couple hours

46:26a day, you know, in all of these different countries, and these random, random places,

46:32like, YWAM has like, definitely gotten around everywhere.

46:38And I think that, I think one thing that we really have to talk about in this is like,

46:46the dangers of Christian dominionism.

46:49And like, I remember being in YWAM and trying to defend Lauren Cunningham against, you know,

46:57accusations of Christian dominionism, and being like, I don't know if I really can defend it,

47:02because he was one of the, he was one of the individuals who like championed what is now

47:09becoming what is like, super nationalistic, super scary Christian dominionism that is going

47:18on in the United States right now.

47:20I mean, he was part of pushing that, that seven mountains mandate, and very like, using very

47:31like, militaristic language of like, to just give a brief summary, this seven mountains

47:37mandate, which has been championed by like, Lauren Cunningham, Bill Bright, Lance Wallnau,

47:45a lot of different individuals, which we talked about Lance last time, and his phony PhD, you

47:51know, like, there's a lot of different individuals who have kind of like championed this seven

47:56spheres, or seven mountains, or seven molehills of society, where it's basically like, we need

48:02to get Christians in to each one of these things.

48:06And like, I saw the manifestations of that.

48:10I was like, I was in a, I was in a backdoor.

48:13And this is where I do think people's conspiracy theories about what's going on in Christianity.

48:19This is where it is, like, there explicitly is a group of individuals who are coming up with

48:24schemes behind the scenes, to make sure that their group of people have the most influence

48:30as possible within the United States.

48:33Like, that's not, that's not a, like, that is just explicitly what is happening.

48:38And I remember going to, because I was with my dad, and my dad would travel and speak to

48:45these different individuals, speak to Lauren Cunningham, speak to Bill Johnson, and we would

48:50have, like, these behind the scenes meetings where I would see all of these individuals,

48:55like, scheming about how they're going to take over the United States.

49:00And like, it's, that's, I'm not being traumatic.

49:03That's exactly what was happening.

49:05It was, you know, obviously couched in very spiritual language.

49:08So it didn't feel like that.

49:10But there is a state senator in California, who I met with, I'm forgetting what her name is

49:17right now, but we met with her and Cheon, who's the leader of a church in Pasadena, and

49:26behind the scenes, this is in, like, 2010, but we were, like, we went to a restaurant, and

49:34there was, like, a backroom restaurant that, like, she came in the back way, and it was,

49:40like, they clearly were, like, wanting to not be seen together in this restaurant, which

49:45I thought was super weird, because I had no idea what was going on.

49:49And so we all kind of met, like, we were celebrities, you know, and, like, the paparazzi would be

49:54following us and stuff in this back door, you know, or this backroom of this restaurant.

50:01And for, like, an hour and a half, we talked about the gay agenda in California, and how,

50:08like, the gays were trying to get a hold of all of, like, governments and push their agenda.

50:17And it was, it was one of the first moments where I just, like, sat back, and I was like,

50:22isn't that what we're doing?

50:23Like, are we not projecting onto them?

50:25Like, because we're talking about, we need to get everyone who's gay out of leadership.

50:36And, like, it was very specific.

50:38It was, like, all of these gays, and I'm speaking very offensively, so I apologize for that,

50:45but I am just rehashing the language that was spoken in that.

50:51But all of these different politicians who either supported the gay agenda or who were

51:00gay themselves, we needed to make sure that they were ousted from government positions,

51:05and we needed to make sure that everybody who is Christian in, again, not just Christian,

51:12but this type of Christian, were placed within the group leadership.

51:18And it was, it was really weird, because I had been a part of YWAM, and it was this sort

51:23of, like, I was seeing the nasty underbelly of Christian dominionism, of it being, like,

51:29this is just a plot to take over the United States.

51:32Like, this is a plot to turn the United States into a radical sort of latter rain style theocracy,

51:42not, like, just a generic Christian theocracy, because, like, Christians who believed gay

51:48marriage was fine, they didn't count as Christians.

51:51Christians who, like, supported, you know, were pro-choice, those weren't Christians.

51:56Christians who were, like, you know, said that there was multiple ways that you could kind

52:02of be saved or that were against hell, you know, like, whatever it was, those weren't Christians.

52:07So it was, like, this specific type of Christianity that they were trying to get their people,

52:15including me, like, I was a part of that group.

52:17Like, that was, that was the plan.

52:19It's, like, how do we take over all of these different spheres of society?

52:23And as much as, like, people really like Loren and, you know, he was more understanding

52:29of cultures than these other leaders, he was more appreciative of people who are different

52:35than him, like, I definitely think that that's true.

52:38He also was, like, absolutely peddling some extremely dangerous Christian dominionist rhetoric

52:45and to a bunch of Russian doll youth missionaries who had just, you know, like I said earlier,

52:55baby Christians teaching baby Christians teaching baby Christians, catching the zeal of Christian

53:00dominionism, which is 100% led to, like, there is a huge outbreak of, like, young men who

53:09are, like, frankly, neo-Nazi Christian nationalists.

53:15And that's just, like, very much a thing that is happening right now.

53:18And, like, I don't think people are aware of how much, like, YWAM and the Lateran movement

53:23really fostered that sort of environment that created these people.

53:28The historian and researcher in me is just dying to dig deeper in exactly what you said.

53:35So maybe we'll put that off for the next episode because we're almost running an hour here.

53:41But one thing that you said, I can't help but laugh anytime I hear it.

53:45Whenever I hear the term, the gay agenda, I'm like, do you guys know what agenda means

53:51and how agendas work?

53:52Like, and I had actually had one person who started emailing me whenever I said something

53:58similar.

53:59And they said, yes, but the stories in Hollywood, they have now written in people who are

54:04homosexual, homosexual.

54:06And I'm like, you know, they're writers and they write about what's happening in the world.

54:11They're also writing, I love a good murder mystery.

54:14They're writing about murderers.

54:16But you don't hear the outcry of the murderer agenda, right?

54:20It's a story, guys.

54:21It's a story.

54:22Come on.

54:23But I understand where it's coming from.

54:26But to end this properly, again, picture the nation where suddenly you have this group

54:34of people.

54:34And I'm glad you brought up the Seven Mountain Mandate in this episode because it helps me

54:38end it.

54:39And picture yourself as a foreign nation who's watching this silent invasion.

54:44Like you said, there's, pick any city, they're everywhere.

54:48So there's this silent invasion of a group who wants to take and proclaim dominion over

54:55our people.

54:57And they send their kids.

54:59What on earth is going on here?

55:01So it leads you to, and again, I'm not going to go too far with this, but consider that

55:07same network of YWAM institutions spread throughout the globe and think of the potential.

55:13If it were to be espionage, which I'm not saying it is, think of the potential there because

55:18they're everywhere.

55:20Yeah.

55:20And they've sent the kids.

55:21Why are they sending the kids?

55:23I can imagine foreign leaders of foreign governments thinking they're invading to push dominionism on

55:28our region with those children.

55:30What's happening here?

55:32But again, I think in my opinion, the strategy isn't really for the agenda of YWAM itself.

55:40It's a bigger strategy of making it look like something is happening, whether it is or not,

55:45because people, they buy into this.

55:47That's how psychology works.

55:49Read the book Propaganda if you don't understand how that works, but we'll cut it off here.

55:54There's so much more I could say, but I want to dig deeper into how similar this was to

55:59Ladder Rain and some of the ways in which they're, they both kind of cross-pollinated,

56:03I think, a little bit.

56:04So we can go there next time.

56:07Yeah, absolutely.

56:08And I mean, I saw a lot of that cross-pollination of like the way that these different leaders

56:13were talking.

56:14I mean, it was quite explicit that they were all kind of sharing the same message.

56:19So I think that would be great to explore further.

56:23Awesome.

56:24Well, if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on

56:28the web.

56:28You can find us at william-brannum.org.

56:31For more about the dark side of the New Apostolic Reformation, you can read Weaponized Religion

56:36from Christian Identity to the NAR.

56:39Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

56:41Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

57:11Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

57:41Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

57:46K leur см talk about some other ideas around the research that we romp and can Google

57:50There.

57:50Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

57:53Yeah.

57:54Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

57:55Weaponized Religion from ChristianKY test results.

57:58Andorders is also listed in the semen of such a greatance that has not only parameterized

58:03through the NAR.

58:06Weaponized Religion from Christian Identity to the NAR.

Inside YWAM: The Cultish Secrets Behind the Mission - Jed Hartley - Podcast Episode 346

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