During a House Appropriations Committee hearing last week, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MA) questioned FCC Chairman, Brendan Carr about the Trump administration's pressure on private companies to remove their DEI policies.
00:00I want to pursue a little bit what Mr. Ivey apparently questioned you about.
00:06I wasn't here, but I had in mind pursuing the frontier merger and how that happened.
00:14First of all, what was the factual basis – and I think Mr. Ivey started to answer this and
00:20didn't have time to finish it – what was the factual basis on which you were talking
00:25to Verizon re their policies?
00:30Well, the letter that we wrote to Verizon itself lists through some of the evidence that was
00:37available at the time, including referencing and linking to whistleblower documents.
00:43And more broadly, though, again, the FCC has a mandate to ensure in the first section of
00:48the Communications Act that these services are provided without discrimination.
00:51Similarly, the FCC has EEO rules on our books that talk about non-discrimination.
00:57And so all of that together was the basis initially.
01:01But again, what I've said across the –
01:02What I asked you – I understand that language.
01:04What were the facts?
01:08Something motivated this, and that motivation went away as soon as Verizon settled with you
01:17on the DEI.
01:18Is that correct?
01:20MR.
01:22Within three hours, the decision was made that the merger is okay.
01:24You apparently said it went through the regular process, but there was no vote in the FCC
01:29on that issue.
01:30Was there?
01:31MR.
01:32There was not a commission-level vote, but the FCC has lots of precedents where we approve
01:35deals like this at the bureau level.
01:36Well, I understand that.
01:37But there was no vote.
01:38There was no regular process in terms of the voting to approve a merger, a relatively large merger.
01:47206.
01:48MR.
01:49Right.
01:50I mean, I would say that it – it was not a vote.
01:52I don't mean to, like, dispute that at the commission level, but I would say it was a
01:56regular process.
01:57In fact, we have lots of precedent, including under Democrat leadership.
01:59We have large deals, including Altice Cablevision, which was a $17 billion deal done at the bureau
02:05level.
02:06In fact, one of the prior Verizon frontier deals.
02:07MR.
02:08During the three hours between the time that Verizon decided to settle and the decision being
02:15made by you, is there any discussion with the non-majority members of the commission?
02:21MR.
02:22It was fairly standard.
02:23You'll get these letters that come in.
02:25They get incorporated into the decision relatively quickly and then it goes out the door.
02:29All that was fairly standard practice.
02:31MR.
02:32Is it standard practice to go after – first of all, I don't think you've told me the
02:41factual basis of your actions that were purportedly directed at Verizon for their practices on DEI.
02:50Is that correct or incorrect?
02:52MR.
02:53Well, I see –
02:54MR.
02:55I know you told me the language about not discriminating.
02:58MR.
02:59Right, right.
03:00MR.
03:01But very frankly, DEI is all about not discriminating.
03:03Because historically, DEI was based upon – and I'm not defending every decision under DEI,
03:09but it is based upon inclusion and equity.
03:12Now, apparently, equity is a bad word in this town now.
03:16MR.
03:17And it somehow applies that you're fair to everybody.
03:19Even if they're women or they're blacks or something like that, you're fair to them.
03:23And you want to make sure that we include America in our processes.
03:28That did not happen for a very long time in this country.
03:32Period.
03:33MR.
03:34This administration is doing everything it possibly can, not only in the government side,
03:40but on the private sector side of telling what they ought to do.
03:45Telling them that they ought not to have a program of making sure they have diversity and,
03:51therefore, representation of all segments of the community.
03:54Or equity.
03:55Then, apparently, they don't have to be fair.
03:58And certainly, inclusion, that's terrible.
04:02One nation, indivisible.
04:04That's about inclusion.
04:07So, what I'm asking you, why should the government, through the FCC, pressure Verizon
04:15to do away with a policy they may well think is its best interest and its customers' best interest?
04:21MR.
04:22Well, I think, whether you look at the Communications Act or the FCC…
04:23MR.
04:24You see my point?
04:25MR.
04:26I hear you.
04:27Whether you look at the Communications Act or the EEO rules, they speak in terms of
04:30non-discrimination.
04:31And if you look back at one of the last deals the FCC did, or one of the first deals the
04:36last FCC did under the Democrat administration, was a Verizon deal.
04:41And in that decisional document that the Democrat-led commission voted on, they specifically obtained
04:50commitments from Verizon to extend and expand DEI.
04:55And so, the concept that sort of looking at these issues in the context of an FCC transaction is not new to this decision.
05:02Again, the Democrat-FCC included conditions they obtained expanding DEI.
05:08And what we're doing is making sure that going forward, we don't have discrimination.
05:12But to your point, we can have equal opportunity.
05:14We can have non-discrimination.
05:15And again, there's lots of definitional issues out there about how you define DEI.
05:20And that's why maybe there's been some concern raised about the specific terms that I've used in terms of invidious forms of DEI discrimination.
05:27What I'm focused on is if you're intentionally discriminating against people based on race, based on gender, based on protected characteristics, that's a problem.
05:34It's a problem under our civil rights law.
05:35The Supreme Court increasingly has been making that clear.
05:37And it's a problem under the Communications Act and the FCC's rules as well.
05:40And so, that's what I'm targeting.
05:42If there's, you know, other non-discrimination practices that people are putting under umbrella terms, like, okay, that's fine.
05:49But what we're focused on is intentional discrimination based on race and gender or protected characteristics.
05:54Well, I'm sure.
05:55I'm sorry.
05:56Am I done?
05:58Yeah.
05:59I'm sure Mr. Ivey will follow up because he's been chomping at the bit to get back to this.
06:03Well, I'm glad to yield to Mr. Ivey with no time that I have left yield.
