EP09 - Drowning in Silence: Water Safety Is A Right for Everyone | Life & the City - video Dailymotion

The Star

THINKING about water safety in our fast-developing, flood-prone cities? Wondering what really makes a swim teacher qualified, and what could happen if they aren’t?  Life & The City podcast hosts Aida Ahmad and Farid Wahab make waves with a conversation on aquatic education and safety.  Joining them is Wong Foong Inn, founder of both Aquatic Star Academy and Swimming Teachers Association of Malaysia (STAM). Together, they dive into the often-overlooked responsibilities of swim instructors, from the legal duty of care to the need for certification in a highly unregulated landscape.  Wong also shares the emotional journey that drove her to champion water safety for everyone and how STAM is setting the standards by emphasising on the need to obtain certifications on CPR and live-saving techniques. Water literacy is a public health issue and not just a personal skill. The Life & The City podcast series airs fortnightly, spotlighting issues that matter to urbanites. Catch the full episode on www.youtube.com/@thestaronline/podcasts or www.thestar.com.my/metro  WATCH MORE: https://thestartv.com/c/news SUBSCRIBE: https://cutt.ly/TheStar LIKE: https://fb.com/TheStarOnline

Transcript

00:00Farid, do you know how to swim?

00:06I certainly do and I love doing so.

00:09How about you Aida?

00:10Do you know how to swim?

00:11Yes, I learned how to swim at the age of 5 or 6 I think.

00:14And it's been a very valuable lesson.

00:18But the thing is right, do you know how to float properly?

00:22I do.

00:24You say that with much hesitation.

00:26I do, I do.

00:27Yes.

00:28The important thing is learning how to swim but also learning how to float.

00:34And this is the topic that we will talk about today with our guests who will give us some

00:39interesting insights on making safe spaces in swimming pools or any body of water through

00:48aquatic education.

00:49But before we get to that, here are some of our top stories Farid on The Star Online and

00:56In The Star.

00:57Ahead of the ASEAN Summit, we are making sure that everything runs smoothly and accordingly

01:06for our delegates.

01:09Also at Langkawi Lima opens and that should be very exciting.

01:13And one of your stories Farid about the disquiet among hillside homes in Ampang, that's a never-ending

01:23problem isn't it?

01:24Yes.

01:25And we are making sense about more hillside properties coming up on the hillsides in Ampang

01:29Jaya.

01:30Yes.

01:31So be sure to read that in Star Metro today and Star Online.

01:35Farid, let's get to our topic at hand.

01:39We have the Swimming Teachers Association of Malaysia, a STEM founder, Ms. Wong Fung

01:48Yin, also known as Yin today, who will tell us about the importance of getting the proper

01:58certifications as a swimming teacher, as a swimming coach and a life-saving educator

02:09in the pool or any body of water.

02:11Welcome Yin.

02:12Thank you Aida and Farid for having me today.

02:14Yes, very excited to have you.

02:17Thank you so much.

02:18Well, the first time when I got into swimming teaching at that time was around 2002.

02:26So that was where the incident, there was an incident.

02:29Right.

02:30Tell us about the incident because from what you told me before, you encountered a situation

02:37where you had to save someone's life.

02:40This was a young boy?

02:41Yes.

02:42He's nine years old.

02:43So what happened was we were doing our assessment, the free assessment.

02:46We always do assessments before we actually categorise our students into respective level.

02:52So what happened was he was playing at the other end and he drowned, almost near drowning.

02:57So when I went over there and we started performing CPR and revive him.

03:02So I realised that as a swimming teacher, we are always at swimming pool, it's always

03:06in the water and there's always deep end and things like that.

03:09So I realised that we need to have a life-saving certification and also CPR.

03:16It is so important if you have that knowledge because at all time, we are actually at the

03:22situation that you may need to go and save somebody and also perform CPR.

03:26Correct.

03:27Because it's more than just swimming and I did a story which is in Star Metro a couple

03:34of weeks ago on the legal responsibilities that aquatic educators must uphold, particularly

03:42the duty of care when teaching young students or teaching anyone actually.

03:48So to teach swimming is one thing, but to save a life when something wrong happens,

03:55that's the most important.

03:57Let me just share the drowning incidents in 2023 and 2024.

04:02And this was provided by the fire and rescue department.

04:06We had a total of 315 drowning incidents in 2023 and 325 last year.

04:17And these drowning incidents mainly took place at the sea, the sewer, river or water canals,

04:24lakes, mining pools, waterfalls and rapids.

04:28Now all these places, aside from the sea, which sometimes may have lifeguards, whereas

04:39the others, there are no lifeguards there.

04:41So this is what I mentioned to you Yin earlier.

04:45In Sarawak, it was the highest figure of 36 drowning cases in the rivers and water canals

04:52and 43 last year.

04:54So 36 in 2023 and 43 last year.

05:01Why do you think that is?

05:02I think it's because in Sarawak, all these features like water features, the rivers,

05:07they are quite rapid and there's a lot of canals and things like that.

05:12So that's the reason why that once you're off-guarded, it's just like a flash flood

05:17when it comes and you're not aware of it.

05:20So all the accidents may happen.

05:22So it could be one of the main reasons.

05:25And well, if you later on, if you learn, later on we will share about Oiti Mate, that may

05:31help a lot more people when they are actually caught in the situation.

05:35Okay Yin, you founded the Swimming Teachers Association of Malaysia in 2015.

05:41Yes.

05:42Right.

05:43And you also set up Aquatic Star Academy, Sedan Berhad.

05:47Tell us about how and why you founded the Swimming Teachers Association.

05:52Okay.

05:53When I started my own academy in 2003, I realised that there weren't really any legal

06:00regulation.

06:01So I just started just like that.

06:04But because of the incidents, I saved and did the CPR itself, I realised that we need

06:11to have proper additional certification other than just swimming teaching itself.

06:16Because I'm a physical educator degree, so I know teaching methods and you need to have

06:21a proper teaching methods.

06:23So how do you get acquired that you have to have a proper swimming teacher certification?

06:28So I'm making a point for my academy that all my teacher must have minimum basic teacher

06:33certification at that time.

06:35So which our prerequisite is bronze medal, which is life saving and also CPR.

06:41So that's how I started.

06:42But along the road, I realised that I've interviewed, my challenges most was to get certified swimming

06:49teacher.

06:50To get one club to another school is not a problem at that time.

06:54But to get manpower which is certified was my main obstacle at that time.

07:00So what we did was we actually thank God that we met our late Mr. Fu, who is our Singapore

07:06Swimming Teachers Association.

07:08So he came over and start certifying all my swimming teachers.

07:11It's not easy because he is, you know, Singapore coming here and then how long can, how often

07:17can he comes?

07:18Correct.

07:19Yeah.

07:20So he actually trained us to become a tutor itself.

07:23I see.

07:24So, because that's the point that I said and we realised that, you know, swimming teaching

07:31is, you need to be taught and there's a lot of things that you need to go through, especially

07:38theory and practical session.

07:39Correct.

07:40But most importantly is the practical internship attachment.

07:44That is interesting because when I interviewed you for the story that I did.

07:49I went to your home and Yin has certificates from floor to ceiling.

07:54Or actually you shared all the certs that covered her queen size bed.

08:01Can you share with us what are those important certs that you have?

08:05Sure.

08:06Okay.

08:07I realised along all these two decades, we realised that a lot of publics, I would say

08:12even the schools and everyone do not know the difference of the certification itself.

08:18About 30 years ago, I also, I must say, I also used a life-saving instructor cert at

08:23that time.

08:24There is nobody, nowhere that I can get a swimming teacher certification.

08:28So we also teach in that way.

08:30But because we are physical education teacher, we realised that we need to be specialised

08:34in a certain field in order to be more effective and safe teacher.

08:38So that's how I started with all that.

08:40Now there are FINA and ASUM competition coaching certification.

08:47What are those?

08:48These are the coaches that teaches a swim team, a competition team.

08:53So there's also certification at aquatic teaching for infant and toddler, baby and preschool.

08:59So those are actually you are teaching babies, six months old.

09:03I even started with two months old in the bathtub.

09:06Now that requires a different sort of certification, correct?

09:09Definitely.

09:10So there's also people teaching people with disability.

09:13So that's special needs.

09:14So there's another certification you need.

09:17But the most important is that swimming teaching certification, which is learn to swim.

09:23So there are many categories that you need to know what type of different certification.

09:28You can't be coaching and teaching learn to swim when you're holding a coaching certification.

09:32That is very important because, you know, let's say if either one of us or anyone wants

09:39to sort of relearn some of our swimming skills, right?

09:44Yin, maybe you can tell us what do we need to look out for in the swimming teacher or coach?

09:51Like, is it okay if we ask them, hey, can I, may I see some of your certs before I engage

09:58you to be my swimming teacher?

10:01I think nowadays, since we have educated the past two over decades, there are a lot of

10:08parents are actually asking that.

10:10But less than, I think, beginning the first two, one and a half decades, you really have

10:17nobody.

10:18It's just convenient.

10:19Oh, you can teach me?

10:20That's it.

10:21Nobody really bothered to ask about certification itself.

10:24But I think it's okay.

10:26But you may not need to.

10:28You just need to go and see how they actually started with the, do they do the assessment

10:32with you?

10:33They need to know whether you are comfortable, you are safe.

10:36So we do an initial assessment, aquatic assessment, and see how comfortable you are in the water.

10:42We can't be putting a very fearful child in a group of, you know, just because his age

10:46is the same age as 12.

10:49But you know, he's 12, but he has a phobia, it's totally different.

10:53Same goes with the age of maybe you're 40 or same.

10:57So in my academy, I actually put them, regardless of their age group, I put them to learn the

11:02basic survival skills in your ability.

11:07So I have children three and a half into 20 hours, adult to 40 hours, and into one class.

11:14Because you learn the same thing.

11:15It's just the progress is different.

11:17I like that, you know, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, I like that you have, you know,

11:23stress that there's a difference between teaching swimming and teaching lifesaving.

11:27Because I took swimming lessons when I was a kid, and I remember what I was told.

11:32My trainer told me that, you know, just because you can swim, doesn't mean that you can save someone.

11:38He said that if you see someone drowning, doesn't mean you should go there, jump in

11:41and save that person, because it takes a completely different skills, and that's, you have not

11:46been taught how to do that.

11:48So he said the best way, the best thing you could do is probably throw a floating object

11:52to that person.

11:53That would be a better option, yeah.

11:57That's right, yeah.

11:58And then, according to the Selangor Fire and Rescue Department chief, Wan Mohamad Razali

12:05Wan Ismail, when we asked him what were some of the reasons of these drowning incidents,

12:12his reply was not knowing how to swim, or this person has a lack of water rescuing skills

12:20or lifesaving skills, ignoring safety measures such as not wearing a life jacket when riding

12:25a boat, for example, organizing or doing water activities in dangerous areas, such

12:32as choppy seas, rivers with strong currents, etc.

12:38Panic or fatigue when in the water can also cause victims to lose control, and no parental

12:44supervision when children are playing in water areas.

12:48Yin, this part where he said about, I found this interesting, panic or fatigue when in

12:54the water can result in the person losing control.

13:00Now, my question is, let's say the swimming teacher or coach has a separate certification

13:08in lifesaving, CPR, bronze medallion.

13:13What happens when there is an incident, someone is drowning, but the coach or teacher freezes

13:22or panics?

13:23In your experience, have you come across these situations?

13:28Not really, but I heard of it because they do.

13:32It's just like, you know, not everybody when you train to become, doing your CPR, you've

13:37got your certification, you can actually do it.

13:39And when I did it, and to be frank, during that time, you can hear a lot of people saying,

13:44oh Yin, you press the stomach, let the water comes out, you know.

13:48And then another person would say, use the oxygen tank, the oxygen tank is here.

13:51But the boy is not breathing, how can you use the oxygen tank?

13:55So you've got to be really clear and know what you're doing.

13:58So I only heard one person at the back, they're saying, continue with your CPR, continue with

14:02your CPR.

14:03And that's what, you know, that's what happened.

14:06And we revised and managed to save him.

14:09So same thing like water safety and all that.

14:11If you have not confidence, you don't go and save them, throw any flotation device, anything

14:19you can bring along, just have, you know, that is most important, you know.

14:23So there's not two victims, it's just one victim, but you try your best.

14:27So not everybody can actually do that.

14:29But what we do during our swimming lessons is, we do a lot of simulation, okay.

14:34Like we create currents with our wads, okay, we let our children, because basic is we want

14:39them to have personal survival skills.

14:40So you're going to face that when you do.

14:42You can do your back float, but what about when you are caught in the current and waves?

14:47So what do you do?

14:49So we actually make some simulation during our classes itself, nothing like simulation.

14:54Right.

14:55I have done some of my due diligence at certain swimming schools in Klang Valley.

15:06What you're telling us today about the importance of having these certifications, not all of

15:13the schools place this importance though, from what I checked.

15:18When I asked questions about certifying the teachers, do they need these life-saving certs

15:26to teach the students?

15:29Some of that reply, actually, no, that is optional.

15:32Okay.

15:33That's where the Swimming Teachers Association comes in.

15:36Actually, many, many, well, since the beginning itself, and in 2006, where we become our own

15:43instructor, we try to educate swimming teachers itself at that time to take, but it's not

15:49easy because like you were saying, right, life-saving instructor cert, you teach lifesaver,

15:54and then you also ask a lot of so-called state swimmers and all that, and they will say,

16:00oh, I'm a national swimmer and things like that.

16:03So it's not easy to convince them to take the certification itself.

16:07Why is that?

16:08I don't really know.

16:10Actually, they felt that they can swim, they have gone through all the training, then they

16:14can actually impart it.

16:16But teaching is a methodology, it's a totally different thing.

16:20So instead of educating, it's just like that.

16:23From there, we start educating.

16:25So I educated the instructor, I start educating the schools.

16:28So we are one of the pioneers who actually was, well, in 2005, before that I realized

16:37that there are a lot of schools who doesn't take students seven years and below.

16:41And why is that?

16:42I think it's they're not confident, and since they do not have a proper swimming teacher

16:46certification, so they are not confident to actually take that age group itself.

16:51So we have been trained, and at that time, sadly, because of the 2004 tsunami itself,

16:58and my company actually bloomed.

17:00So we started teaching a lot of kindergartens, we are in demand in kindergartens itself.

17:06So that's one of the most rewarding part of my journey, to be frank.

17:12And this is one of the most important to me.

17:16I'm interested in the part where Yin said that you simulate the waves and all.

17:22Because when I was a kid, I began attending lessons when I was six, and one of the things

17:29I was told was that you are swimming now in a pool, but if swimming in a pool is different

17:35than swimming in the ocean, swimming in the river.

17:38So I was always told that even though I can swim, I cannot simply throw caution to the

17:42wind when I go to the beach, when I go to the river, because these are different environments.

17:46Different currents.

17:47Different currents, completely different set up.

17:49So I like the fact about when you said about the, you simulate the waves, you know.

17:54So not only that part we do, Kuala Tisar Academy at that time, we also start doing a lot of

17:59water safety workshop.

18:01So there is this, like a kindergarten actually invited us in a PD Royal Yacht Club.

18:07So I actually did an educating on the part of the, you have to know the sea, there's

18:13rip currents.

18:14Okay, how do you overcome and get out of rip currents, you know, things like that.

18:20And I also do a lot of assessment on that, showing them that what is important, like

18:24you said, flotation is very important.

18:26Most of them do not know how to float, they're very scared of floating.

18:29So these are the things that we do, not only in the, for kindergartens, we actually also

18:34did it in a public listed company.

18:37So they have, instead of inviting, or every time the bomba and the chemical, whatever,

18:42they actually invited us because water safety actually start from home.

18:46That's how I started in the kindergarten.

18:47That's right.

18:48Because when I interviewed the Life Saving Society president, Lim, he said that having

18:59the life-saving skills doesn't necessarily drive you to become a lifeguard.

19:05No, any one of us can have a life-saving certification, right?

19:12I, for example, have taken a hands-only CPR course.

19:17That was eye-opening, really, because doing that procedure is not easy at all.

19:23When we were practicing on the mannequin, well, the top half of the mannequin, and that

19:31procedure where it mimics doing the CPR on a human, so there is a sort of like a pilot

19:41light that comes on when you are doing it correctly.

19:45So we don't come with pilot lights.

19:48So when you do CPR, you will end up breaking the person's ribs because it's a very tactile procedure, right?

19:59Yeah.

20:00I mean, for me, I would say first-hand because I've actually revived a boy, and I thought

20:06he is quite tall, and I thought he was older than 12 years old.

20:11So at that time when there's enduring rush and things like that, you don't feel the

20:16tired.

20:17You know, it's really taxing.

20:18So I just did a normal CPR, but it did not rupture his ribs because for children, you

20:25need to use one hand.

20:26Yeah.

20:27Babies, it's two fingers.

20:28So there are differences.

20:29Yes, there is a separate CPR for infants as well.

20:32Right.

20:33Correct.

20:34So, but like I said, first-hand, I've tried it.

20:36I mean, I did it so I can actually share.

20:40But not a lot of people can actually do that, but it is very tiring.

20:45When I send the boy to the clinic, I just like lembek, lembek all the way, you know,

20:52just like you said, just totally normal strength.

20:55So yeah, it's pretty taxing.

20:58Yeah.

20:59Maybe you can tell us, Yin, the early days of setting up STEM, Swimming Teachers Association,

21:06and the Aquatic Association, Aquatic Academy, sorry.

21:12Yes.

21:13What are some of the challenges and resistance and some of the gaps in the system?

21:18When I say gaps in the system, because based on the story that I wrote when I spoke to

21:23a lawyer who represents STEM, he said there is a lack of laws and regulations in terms

21:31of governing the swimming industry and the lifesaving industry when it comes to water

21:37activities.

21:39Okay.

21:40I think the Lifesaving Society and all that, they are doing a very good job and all that,

21:44you know, and getting, they also make sure everybody have CPR and things like that.

21:50But regulation part, yes, at that time, we don't have any, I mean, till today, I don't

21:56think so we still have it.

21:58So I realized that I want to make a difference for my academy itself.

22:03So that's why I make sure all my teachers have basic swimming teacher certification

22:07with the prerequisite of the Lifesaving Cert and the CPR.

22:11So from then onward, so educating more, you know, you as a teacher yourself, before you

22:19want to implement some, just for example, we just did Oiti Mate, we're going to do it

22:23for the children.

22:24What is Oiti Mate?

22:25Oiti Mate is actually a Japanese technique of survival skill during accidental time.

22:31So it's basically Oiti Mate means you just back float and wait for help.

22:36If there's any floating device nearby, like mineral, empty mineral bottles, anything.

22:42And actually, if you'll be surprised that all our shoe, especially our Crocs can actually

22:47help you to float.

22:48Really?

22:49Yeah.

22:50And bags.

22:51Interesting.

22:52Yeah.

22:53And bags.

22:54So what happened in 2014, if I'm not mistaken, in the tsunami, they did a lot of research

22:57under the Society of Water Safety and Survival Research from Japan, they did a lot of research.

23:06So during the tsunami in 2014, there are a lot of kindergartens actually safe when there's

23:11a flash floods, goes up to about six feet, you know, and they, because they are exposed

23:16to this particular technique, okay, they actually use their bag.

23:21So if you do not, you are not exposed to that particular technique or, you know, introduced

23:26to, you find that the bag at the back is very buoyant.

23:31So what happened is when it's too buoyant, you'll be face down.

23:34How are you going to get up?

23:36Right.

23:37So that's another thing that I want to also advise a lot of all of you, okay.

23:43Doesn't mean that you can, you are tall, that means the water is just wasted.

23:48You're safe in the water.

23:50Because once you face down, accidentally trip and face down, it's buoyancy.

23:55The buoyancy is very new, and then if you are so scared of water, water start going

23:59into your nose, you get panic, and drowning is silence.

24:03So don't assume that you're, oh, they all can stand, they're all adults, no problem,

24:09but it's not true, okay.

24:11It can drown a person because you are doing a skydiving, the feel of the buoyancy, and

24:15top it up.

24:16Because there's a lot of incidents I see, the mom will be on the phone playing there

24:20and all that, the child will be playing at the wedding pool, it's only what, less than

24:24two feet water.

24:25They can still drown.

24:26Yeah, that boy was just toppled, oh, playing around, and then he just fall flat face down,

24:32and he can't even stand up.

24:34Gosh, that's scary.

24:35I've seen this happen firsthand.

24:36Really?

24:37I was on holiday in Port Dickson, I was swimming in a pool.

24:41So there was a party around the pool, it was very noisy, there was a lot of music, and

24:45then this one small child, I think I was 14 at the time, and there was this one boy, I

24:50think he was four or five, he just jumped in, and no one saw him.

24:56I mean, he didn't die, luckily, but no one saw him because it was so noisy, and he was

25:01like struggling in the water until eventually his father, who happened to be walking around

25:06it, suddenly saw him and just straight jump into the pool.

25:09Luckily he managed to catch that in time.

25:13So yeah, this happened, it's scary.

25:17Yeah, a lot.

25:18Because we are there all the time, there's too many that we see.

25:20So what we do, a mother is just, ah, ah, ah, you know?

25:25But that is if you see, but there are situations that you don't even notice, they actually

25:29drown.

25:30That's right.

25:31You know what I mean?

25:32I think that's a lot of the cases.

25:33Yeah, so these are the situations.

25:35So when you take our swimming teacher's course yourself, we will teach you not only the methodology,

25:40we will teach you how to class control, how to observe this kind of situation.

25:46You don't allow your child, okay, if you have five children, six children and all that,

25:49you do one thing and your eyes is only at this child.

25:52And how about that other child there?

25:54If you are not trained, this child may be just playing, or he's just trying his face

25:58down float, for example.

26:00I've seen this because when I attended one of your certification classes, I saw how Yin

26:07was on the ball on each instructor because a particular instructor may take their eyes

26:14off a certain child.

26:16You have a group of children there, right?

26:19And it can happen where the teacher takes his or her eyes off a certain child and then

26:27you hope that nothing untoward happens, but it does happen.

26:32I mean, so far never because we teach our swimming teacher how to class control and

26:39how you never turn your back.

26:41You never turn your back.

26:42Once you turn your back, we fail you actually.

26:44So you have to have class control.

26:47Children likes to play.

26:48So I always tell them, this child, children is like a bushfire.

26:51You allow him to do whatever he wants, so child A, then child B, child C, you know that

26:56you'll be out of control.

26:57So because we always put in the words duty of care into our class.

27:01So all the students is under your duty of care.

27:04So why that is so important is because then you make sure you equip yourself to properly

27:09certify how to go about and how the prevention is better than cure, right?

27:14Absolutely.

27:15You have interviewed more than 200 swimming instructors in Klang Valley, is that right?

27:22Has that number grown?

27:23Oh, definitely grown.

27:25But not really.

27:26Yeah, it's definitely grown at that time because we're looking for, I say, my challenges were

27:30certified swimming teacher.

27:32So majority do not really have.

27:34Majority is holding a life-saving instructor.

27:39So majority of them don't have professional aquatic or swimming teacher certifications.

27:44That is scary.

27:45Can you tell us what is the difference between a lifeguard, a swim coach and a certified

27:51aquatic educator?

27:52Yeah, okay.

27:53Like just now I shared earlier on, right, the different certifications.

27:56So lifeguard instructor teach life saver, bronze medallion and lifeguard.

28:02So if you have a FINA coach, a swim competition coach, then you teach the swim team competition.

28:08So you have a swimming teaching certification, then you teach learn to swim, learn to swim

28:13as a zero to all the other strokes itself.

28:17And then people with disability, then you teach the people with disability, infant and

28:21toddler.

28:22Then you teach the infant and toddler.

28:23Of course, last time people say, oh, you know, my dad will throw the baby into the pool.

28:29It's like, oh, they will throw.

28:31Nowadays, you try throwing and see, you know what I mean, no need.

28:34You don't need to.

28:35If you have a proper certification, there are proper methods to go about how to familiarize

28:40your child since baby in the bathtub during the first month or every day.

28:45As the saying goes, throw them in the deep end of the pool.

28:50Oh, well, to be frank, okay, during the situation, we also, I do get a lot of students when they

28:57come to me, they really have phobia because they go to classes and they ask them to jump

29:01in the deep pool.

29:02Just don't need to.

29:04That's not the way to build confidence for a child.

29:07So what you're saying is we don't necessarily have to let them feel the deep end of the

29:13pool.

29:14Okay.

29:15Don't need to.

29:16You don't need to be the hardcore anymore.

29:19Last time, we were like, go, go, go, go, let's, and things like that.

29:23So you don't need to because there are really proper certification methods that actually

29:27guide you to do it very properly and safely, most important.

29:33So you were saying about, yeah, how do I go back and then we go all over once I get into

29:37other part, I will just get into it.

29:39So how does Aquatic Star, so we were educating a lot more other swimming teachers to take

29:46the certification along the road, but it's pretty slow.

29:50So I realized that why not forming an NGO that we can, that's where Swimming Teachers

29:57Association comes in so that we have a mission, ambition, and we have more people.

30:03We have so many of our so-called founders and senior teachers already there and dedicated

30:10to also want to educate more swimming teachers.

30:13So that's where we started to form Swimming Teachers Association of Malaysia, hoping that

30:19we can actually do it in the wider scale because, you know, like Aquatic Star Academy, so-called

30:24people say it's a business, it's a number.

30:27So if you want to educate something, say, are you sure, you know, so it has this part

30:32of it that people feel.

30:33But with an association, NGO, we just want to educate swimming teaching itself.

30:38So that's one of our main mission.

30:41So that's how we part.

30:42So like I said, it took a while to form until 2015.

30:47Actually it's harder to form Swimming Teachers Association than my own company.

30:50So you can see company blooming out, swimming, you know, all over.

30:54But association is not that easy, actually.

30:57But we have grown, I'm really happy with what, you know, what we have done.

31:02We have made ourselves recognized in a lot of ways.

31:05Even part of our mission is to recognize in the worldwide.

31:10So we are, actually we were invited to do a lot of workshop in Taiwan, you know, in

31:16Hong Kong itself, and share what we do.

31:18So the best thing is that Taiwan actually started the babies and the people with disability

31:25teaching very much slower than us itself.

31:28So they invited us to share because we were teaching in a Taorana special needs kindergarten

31:34schools itself.

31:35Oh, that was really rewarding.

31:37And you really see a lot of experiences with the people with disability.

31:43But we don't have a pool that can cater for it.

31:45Do you need a special pool?

31:47Yes, because the temperature helps and then the entry in the pool helps.

31:53Because some of them can't even move and they have cerebral palsy.

31:57And they are also, not only that, I also just recently faced this situation.

32:02There's this machi.

32:05She needs to go to aqua therapy, but she's so afraid of water, but she can't do any other

32:09hydrotherapy, I mean the other therapy on land.

32:12So she has to go in.

32:13So she actually hired me and bring her into the pool and just do exercise in the pool.

32:19But I asked her, why you don't do it outside?

32:23Because once a week is not enough for you.

32:25There's no pool.

32:26Either the pool is too deep, the steps is not suitable, how can I climb now?

32:32So these are the things that I really hope that we can have more this accessibility pool

32:37for all these people with disability.

32:39Or not disability, people who has physical, medical, physical problems.

32:44Right.

32:45Let's talk about water safety in the schools.

32:49Why do you think this matters and how do you see it saving more lives?

32:55Okay, not every school has a compulsory swimming lesson.

32:59So in 2013, if I'm not mistaken, we are one of the pioneers to make swimming teaching

33:06as a PE compulsory subject.

33:08So in Asia Pacific at that time.

33:11And we find that all this will help because our first topic, our first module will be

33:20water safety, water survival skill.

33:23So regardless of who, so we actually have mixture of what, but because it's a classroom,

33:27so you have the same age.

33:29But if not, everybody will have that group to know how to swim, will learn how to survive

33:33most importantly.

33:34So that helps because once you are able to survive, that's definitely going to cut down

33:39a lot of drowning cases and things like that.

33:43That's what I felt that.

33:45And then along the road that we realized that so is public school, international school,

33:50public school, international school, I always have this thing.

33:54How about our own government school?

33:57So I have this thought many years ago that why don't we do that?

34:01But of course, I always have, maybe I'm wrong, I always have this concept to go into government

34:06school and government is very difficult because it's all Malaysia, whole thing, right?

34:10So I can understand.

34:11But I always have this thought, why don't we do a pilot project?

34:15You know what I mean?

34:16And I'm sure there's a lot of people who are willing to sponsor, other than just sponsor

34:21the normal sponsorship and other things, why don't you sponsor the water safety skills

34:26for the children itself?

34:28So I was having this thought and of course, I still hope that we can do a pilot project

34:35because I'm sure once a pilot project can be done and achieved and successfully, then

34:41you can plan for a bigger scale.

34:43That's my dream.

34:46I'm sure, I mean, we hope that that will eventually come true.

34:52Because it's what you see as aquatic literacy, right, for the future.

35:01Back to the Japanese technique of Uiti Mate, how do you see this relevant in Malaysia with

35:08our increasing flooding incidents?

35:12Very.

35:13Okay.

35:14Uiti Mate, actually our life-saving society of Malaysia has brought it in and introduced

35:21to us.

35:22So we were involved in that.

35:23Well, part of our mission is to work together with other NGOs also.

35:28So we have been doing that for a long time.

35:29So if we can actually educate more, Uiti Mate, anybody can learn to become so-called an instructor,

35:36they call it.

35:37It can be a teacher, mum, whoever.

35:41Of course, children can't be the instructor, but you can actually expose them because that's

35:45why the kindergartens in Japan actually survive, right?

35:49Because they have that simulation, that feel.

35:52So we want to educate more.

35:54We want to spread as many as possible.

35:56We had this in the first conference in Sabah, Kota Kinabalu, in the University of Sabah.

36:04And we have 100 hours in one time to be educated.

36:09And in the sea itself, we also did one in the Thai University for our instructor or

36:14whoever we invite.

36:16And we also did another one in the marine, in the sea itself.

36:20So what we actually do is that we have a lot of simulation.

36:23We at the boat, we fell down from the boat, you know, and how would you do and all that.

36:28So these are the things that you simulate.

36:30And in Japan, they actually wear a kimono, a very expensive kimono.

36:35Yeah, and they wear that for?

36:37Just to do a simulation that wearing a kimono also can actually float.

36:42Anything can float.

36:43That's interesting.

36:44Just try it.

36:45Just try it.

36:46And be careful also.

36:48That's why where we come in to actually guide you step by step.

36:52Because when you have a very flotation, Crocs shoes, for example, it's really float up.

36:59So if you're not comfortable with back float, when you just fall back, your legs will come

37:04up first.

37:05Your head will be like, you know, you start, you can get start getting panic.

37:09So how do you don't let people get panic?

37:12Like I said, it's not panic and fatigue.

37:14The people drown because of panic.

37:16Because for a person, you will not drown even though you are not a floater.

37:20When you float, you say you can float very well.

37:22So when you float, is your leg down or are you literally floating very well?

37:28I mean like, what's it called?

37:30You know when you're...

37:31You're wading in the pool.

37:32Ah, you're trading water.

37:33Yeah, I think it was called water trading.

37:36Yeah, okay.

37:37Yes, water trading.

37:38Water trading is another water safety survival skills.

37:40But floatation is actually you just float and don't move.

37:43Yes, yes.

37:44Okay.

37:45So when you float and don't move, for guys, especially with muscles, you don't float as

37:50well as ladies because we have a lot of...

37:51I noticed that.

37:52Really?

37:53I noticed that, yeah.

37:54Okay, that's true.

37:55It's better than men's, right?

37:56But anyway, so when you float, you see, there's a lot of muscular footballers and basketballers,

38:04actually their leg will sink.

38:06But there is a way, we will teach you, is how you move your center of gravity or buoyancy

38:12in line.

38:13It's okay, you may be floating this way, but what 2% of your body should be out of water.

38:19Which part do you need to be out of water to be safe?

38:22Your face.

38:23Nose and mouth.

38:24Yeah.

38:25That's all you need.

38:26So if your nose and mouth, if you don't panic, you can be floating like that and shift your

38:30center of gravity with your hands, we will show you how, and you will be floating and

38:35you see when you shift your hands, the center of gravity and buoyancy, your legs will start

38:41coming up.

38:42You may not be floating like me, I can read books, you know, but I also can show my students

38:48that I can actually sink when I tense my muscles.

38:51So we should relax.

38:52Always.

38:53Okay.

38:54Always.

38:55It's a must.

38:56Relax in the water.

38:57Yeah.

38:58If you don't relax, you start panicking and all that, that's where the problem's coming.

38:59You may roll over, you know what I mean?

39:01So that's why Oidin Batisit is just back float.

39:04Once you have the simulation, if you can find any flotation device to help you, just stay

39:08calm and wait.

39:09I find that back floating very relaxing.

39:14I mean, the last few times recently where I went swimming and after doing, I only know

39:21how to breaststroke, I need to learn my freestyle, but after doing a few laps and you feel a

39:28little fatigue, you just float on your back and just float and just let the water carry

39:34you or, you know, wherever in the lane, but it's very relaxing.

39:39Yeah.

39:40So, but then, you know, a lot of people don't like, there's this saying, turn, turn, turn.

39:45Right.

39:46So not a lot of people actually find back float comfortable at all.

39:50In fact, those fearful ones, it's harder to teach them the back float first.

39:53It's much more easier to front float when you're holding it, they don't feel that, you

39:58know, I'm looking out at nowhere and things like that.

40:00So that's where you need to actually teach them.

40:04But there's always ways to overcome and give them a lot more confidence.

40:07If you don't come for swimming teaching, you don't have this progressive teaching method,

40:12you just go and then they will start grabbing you here and there.

40:15How are they going to, they start tense up anyway.

40:18Have you had any student who considered you their flotation device and just grab onto

40:26you for dear life that, that you felt it was a bit, a bit disconcerting?

40:32Okay.

40:33For that is very common, but the most, the part that you will feel anything is that when

40:40they start holding you, pulling your hair, biting you.

40:45Gosh.

40:46Because they're so scared.

40:47Because especially we do back float, right?

40:49You know, if you don't, okay, the biting part is with the people with disability, but you

40:53do get a lot of them will be holding you very tight until, you know, so you don't

40:59need to do that.

41:00There's methods.

41:01If you come for swimming teacher courses, there are methods to go progressively.

41:06If this child is this scared, you do this step.

41:10If this child is more comfortable, you do that step.

41:12So this is where the swimming teaching comes in.

41:14Yeah.

41:15It's so important.

41:16So, so clearly there are no shortcuts.

41:18No.

41:19So it is a time consuming process to do it properly.

41:24Yes.

41:25To avoid someone drowning under your care and to avoid yourself from drowning because

41:30that can happen as well.

41:31Yeah.

41:32But I wouldn't, I mean, that happens before, but if you have take the swimming teacher

41:36course itself, that I'm very sure that wouldn't happen in that way if you follow the procedure

41:41and, but I won't, I won't, I mean, accidents do happen, so I'm not going to touch that

41:47part.

41:48But I want to touch in the sense that you don't need to create phobia for the child.

41:52The poor child comes to you for swimming lessons.

41:55If you don't have a proper progressive method to go overcome his fear, you create phobia

42:02for another child.

42:04And that's where I get a lot that time, you know.

42:06Yeah.

42:07So you need to, well, when you know the procedure and do it right, it's just so smooth, you

42:13know.

42:14Do you have, I mean, okay, you said you know how to swim.

42:16Do you have any water phobias for it?

42:18No.

42:19I think when I was a kid, my mom's concern was I was too eager to jump in.

42:23So the reason why she wanted me to take lessons, because she said, you were going to jump in

42:28no matter what, so it's better that you are prepared.

42:31This is where I want to come in.

42:33Because in our swimming teaching, the one of the most important skill that we teach

42:38the swimming teacher is proper entry and exit.

42:41Because the child is comfortable, they do not know the deep end, they just, wow, like

42:45they sit around their mother, you know what I mean.

42:46So in our lessons, it's very important, proper entry and exit.

42:50So we actually enhance that part itself.

42:54Let's ask this question, Farid.

42:57If Yin could rewrite Malaysia's water safety policy, what would that be?

43:03What would you change if you could?

43:06Okay.

43:07I have this thought, but then I felt that I don't want to change anything throughout

43:12my journey now, you know.

43:14I felt that because of what has gone through, that I faced, I made a difference for my school

43:22and that's what lead to Swimming Teachers Association to widespread our mission to have

43:28proper swimming teacher certification.

43:31So I won't change that.

43:33If I change that, that means everything is in place smoothly, then I wouldn't go for

43:38the next.

43:39I wouldn't know that, oh, there's another baby, oh, there's another people with disability

43:43because I won't equip myself too because it's just like...

43:46It doesn't stop.

43:47You continue learning.

43:48Yeah, because I...

43:49Yeah, that's one thing.

43:50But why I won't want to change is because all these things, the situation that I faced

43:55made this change.

43:57It's just like, okay, there's no shortcut like we say, right?

44:00So if a lot of people take this as nowadays, a lot of people, them take this as a job,

44:07a business, okay?

44:09If you are a passionate swimming teacher, you want to be, then you go and get an enhanced,

44:15make sure your aquatic education do it right.

44:19You know what I mean?

44:20So I would not change anything to be frank, but I hope at that time, maybe we can have

44:26more proper swimming teaching courses, make sure there is, like going through all the

44:36proper process.

44:37Like I said, I enhanced on to the practical internship because I asked you, you go for

44:42theory, practical session, for only courses, what you learn most?

44:46Yeah, they need to spend time in the pool.

44:49The internship guidance.

44:50Yeah.

44:51You know, that you learn.

44:52It's just like doctor, okay lah, two years, right?

44:55For us, it's not...

44:56Yeah, they go through their residency.

44:57Yeah.

44:58It's the same thing, right?

44:59Because you are...

45:00Someone's life is in your hands.

45:02Correct.

45:03Right.

45:04What is STEM's vision for the next five to 10 years?

45:11I think still what we have been doing and continue doing because there's still a lot

45:16more.

45:17So I'm not going to go into too far vision.

45:19We'll still go back to our mission because we, I think that we need a lot more to get

45:26our missions need to be more widespread, okay?

45:31So we really hope that more swimming teacher or whoever interested, if this is your profession,

45:36come and take the swimming teacher certification with us.

45:39And you will be recognized.

45:40Trust me.

45:41We already have.

45:42Once you take our certification, you can teach in Taiwan, Australia, in other countries and

45:48things like that.

45:49So it's recognized, I would say worldwide, but recognized in that way.

45:55That's good to know.

45:56So yeah, then I think that's one thing.

45:59The other thing is that continue educating and work together with other NGOs to like

46:03what we are doing, Oitimate and things like that.

46:06So we are looking forward to collaborate with maybe universities and all that to be a widespread

46:12a little bit more.

46:14And then we are very happy to hear one of our Oitimate instructor is going to do with

46:19him in his own school now.

46:21So that's where it goes.

46:23And internationally, we want to recognize, be recognized.

46:26So we are there.

46:27So we hope that there will be more workshops that we conducted and things like that.

46:31But because of the pandemic, if not, there will be a flow of us being going to internationally,

46:36sharing our experience and things like that.

46:38And we also founded Asia Swimming Teachers Organization.

46:43That's wonderful.

46:44Yeah.

46:45So this is Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Malaysia.

46:49So we actually can do something because each country has their own style, own culture.

46:57So when we collaborate and we come and put into one, you know, there's a lot more ideas

47:01and things like that.

47:02So it's fantastic.

47:03And I think lastly, is that, well, educating all the different, not just age group itself,

47:11you know, all the, what do you call that, people with disability and all the babies.

47:16So more widespread on that part of it.

47:18So they can just go to the Swimming Teaching Association on Malaysia's website to check

47:25out the certification courses.

47:27Yes.

47:28Well, what we do is at the current moment, we are upgrading our website and we are teachers,

47:32very good in teaching, but the website cut, you know.

47:36So we try our best in as many as possible to do what we can.

47:41But the most important, we will, please come and join us, our aquatic educators education

47:46level one.

47:47Because level one is the one that you're going to teach more on the water safety.

47:51You can actually teach the kindergartens.

47:53Once you can enhance and get that skill, the rest is, teaching stroke is not a problem anymore.

47:59Interesting.

48:00Any parting words for it?

48:02Well, my parting word is, swimming is really cool.

48:05It is.

48:06It is.

48:07It is.

48:08Because it's not only tones, it is a fantastic low-impact exercise for people who are having

48:18joint problems.

48:19Right?

48:20Yeah.

48:21Like I said, I know how to swim, but it was only just before the pandemic where I reintroduced

48:27myself into swimming and I loved it.

48:29And then the pandemic happened.

48:31And then I haven't been swimming in a while.

48:33So I don't know, after this, perhaps I need to revisit again.

48:37Yeah, I did ask you to come along and try it out.

48:40This is level one certification.

48:42Anyone can do it, right?

48:44No, we have prerequisite.

48:45So you have to be able to swim 25 meters freestyle, front crawl, backstroke and breaststroke.

48:54But no need to be perfect because once you take our course itself, you can actually correct

48:59your stroke itself.

49:00I see.

49:01Okay.

49:02And then, of course, you need to have prerequisite of bronze medallion and CPR.

49:06But I would encourage if you're like, because we have a scale when you test your swim skill,

49:10right?

49:11We have a scale.

49:12So I also have trained one PE teacher.

49:15She's not a swimmer, but because she's so dedicated to learn and because after our course

49:19itself, she enhanced, she improved herself.

49:23We won't give you a cert until you can actually swim the, you know, the proper stroke again

49:27and provide all the necessary certificate to us.

49:32But you see this, there's this point, last time when we are doing our volleyball coaching

49:38by a coach, the coach may not be a very good volleyball player, but he's very good in coaching.

49:44So same goes with this particular teacher itself.

49:46She doesn't know how to swim well, but she's a very good teacher.

49:50Really fantastic teacher.

49:51Are we going to let this teacher goes off?

49:54You know, she's a really good teacher.

49:56And these are the things.

49:57But nowadays, children are also different.

50:00Not like last time, teacher, you also do not hit the ball properly.

50:03Now, teacher, you also do not swim properly, you want to teach me.

50:07You know, you can, different kind of children nowadays.

50:10So at least you must have equipped.

50:12Yeah.

50:13That's the takeaway.

50:14There are no shortcuts.

50:15Thank you for watching, everyone.

50:18This has definitely been another interesting topic for it.

50:22Once again, the Life in the City podcast can be viewed on our YouTube channel at thestaronline

50:28and www.thestar.com.my slash Metro.

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EP09 - Drowning in Silence: Water Safety Is A Right for Everyone | Life & the City

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