Este domingo celebramos a mamá con un programa lleno de emoción y sentimiento. Nos honra recibir a Zaida Lovatón, madre de nuestro querido Eduardo Sanz Lovatón, en una conversación íntima y conmovedora.
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00:00♪♪
00:08Of all the programs that we have been able to record in Yayo Pinto,
00:11and even, perhaps, of all the programs in which I have recorded
00:16as a lawyer, as a political leader, and in other facets that life has given me,
00:22this one today must be the most special.
00:25♪♪
00:55♪♪
01:12♪♪
01:42♪♪
02:12The famous Doña Zayda,
02:14that many people know her for Johnny Ventura's merengue,
02:17and for closing El Gordo de la Semana,
02:19and for telling many truths to Trujillo, to Balaguer, to everyone.
02:24But before we talk about that, the girl of that time.
02:27What can you tell me about her?
02:28Look, I can't say that I was a girl of that time.
02:32I was very different from the girls of that time, and I'm going to tell you why.
02:36My father, as you mention him, was a man of great culture.
02:41So, my father tried to make us understand the situation we were living
02:49in the midst of Trujillo's dictatorship.
02:53So, my father always explained to us any situation that occurred.
03:00Of course, he didn't do it out loud on the street, much less,
03:04but when he got home, my father explained the situation,
03:08why this had happened.
03:10I even remember, because he wasn't alive yet,
03:13and I think he was an ambassador in Chile, more or less, when that happened.
03:18I remember how my father explained to me what they called the Corte.
03:23You realize, and how...
03:25And what was the Corte, Paloma? We don't know, because I don't know what it was.
03:28The Perejil thing?
03:29No, I don't know if it was called Perejil.
03:32The thing was that, according to what my father told me,
03:35Trujillo was on his way to the border,
03:39and he found that the Haitian currency was already circulating on the Dominican side,
03:47and that on the Dominican side, everything that was spoken was Creole.
03:52If you look at it, and even after this situation,
03:57he had to give up a part of the territory to Haiti.
04:00But then, when he arrived in Puerto Plata,
04:03he gave the order to tell him to get all the Haitians out of the country.
04:09The famous massacre of 1937.
04:14Yes, he gave a 72-hour deadline.
04:19But what happened was that not only were they fine,
04:23but we were comfortable with them.
04:26Because, generally, we had them as domestic servants
04:31for the cattle, for everything,
04:33and it wasn't that they wanted to be there,
04:35it was that we were both fine.
04:37And let's stop there, because we're talking about 1937,
04:40and that's very similar to what we could be thinking today.
04:44But before we get into political problems and problems,
04:49what was important for you as a family at that time?
04:52What was something that you...
04:54Well, what is still still in our house, you know.
04:58We used to get together to eat.
05:01Always, dad at the head,
05:04we all got together, we sat at the table at the same time,
05:08to eat.
05:10The chancletas didn't fly, no.
05:12No.
05:13They didn't fly.
05:14You didn't get all the beatings you gave me.
05:16No, dear, no.
05:17You didn't give me so much torment.
05:20But really, that, and above all...
05:23So, the one who gave you torment was me.
05:25Of course.
05:26And the one who gave you, the one who gave you.
05:29Look, so, what really was that
05:33we talked a lot as a family.
05:36And we knew, hey you,
05:39I take one of my sisters five years,
05:42and another eleven.
05:44And not even those children knew,
05:46everyone in the house,
05:48they knew they couldn't repeat it.
05:50Because they lived in a...
05:52No, no.
05:53In my house, we talked about everything.
05:55But we all had the slogan
05:58that nothing that was said in the house,
06:00came out of the house.
06:01And a part that I want people to understand
06:04about our story, which is your story.
06:06Already in the student stage,
06:08why did you study law?
06:10A student stage in the post-trimester,
06:13at the end of Trujillo's time.
06:15What can you tell us about that reality?
06:17Well, there I've been seeing,
06:19in some publications,
06:22I've been seeing Calle,
06:24I've been seeing a photograph of
06:26Asdrubal Dominguez,
06:28I've been seeing photos,
06:30I think the big neck is still
06:33lucid and healthy.
06:36We were a group of boys
06:39that started at the university.
06:41Don't believe that before...
06:44Is Trujillo still alive?
06:45Or is Trujillo already dead?
06:47I enrolled at the university
06:50in 1961,
06:52but they haven't killed Trujillo.
06:54They haven't killed him yet.
06:55But there were always anti-Trujilloist movements
06:59at the university.
07:01What happens is that, like everyone else,
07:04he disappeared.
07:05You were the first woman...
07:07The only woman.
07:08The only woman...
07:09In the Dominican Student Federation.
07:12That was a time when they wanted to get you out of the country.
07:15They didn't get me out.
07:16They got you out of the country.
07:17Tell us about that.
07:18Well, Trujillo is already dead.
07:21We decided to form the
07:23Dominican Student Federation.
07:25It was called the FED.
07:27Led by Adrubal Dominguez.
07:31I belonged to the left group
07:35which was called FRAGUA.
07:37I don't remember many communist environments in my house.
07:40No, but your dad...
07:41This was long before I was born.
07:42Your dad was more right-wing.
07:44Still.
07:45So I belonged to the FRAGUA group.
07:48When we went to the elections
07:51of all the faculties,
07:54I was elected
07:56as a representative of FRAGUA
07:58to the federation.
08:00I am the only woman in the Dominican Student Federation
08:03since 1961.
08:06Trujillo was killed on May 30th.
08:09We already had that federation on June 15th or 20th.
08:13So why did they get you out of the country?
08:15Well, because...
08:17It's not that I wanted to.
08:19What happened is that I was left out.
08:22The government was left intact.
08:25Because when the plan failed,
08:28you realize, because a man
08:30who was called Spallalito,
08:33who is a general...
08:34Who is the one who hears the shots.
08:36Who is at the cattle fair
08:39and hears the shots.
08:43As an old military man,
08:45instead of going to see what's going on,
08:48he goes to the house of...
08:52of the head of the armed forces.
08:54Of Roman, of Pupo Roman.
08:56Of Pupo Roman.
08:57Who was at the cattle fair and fell asleep.
08:59No, no, he didn't fall asleep.
09:01He fell asleep.
09:02No, neither.
09:03This man suffered what no one imagines.
09:05What happens is that you don't know who Spallalito was.
09:10Spallalito was a general
09:12graduated from West Point
09:15and at the total service
09:18of the regime.
09:20He was a man of arms to take.
09:22So that's where the plan is damaged
09:24and the regime is left intact.
09:25What happens is...
09:26To go back to where you are,
09:28to leave the country,
09:29it's because the regime stays intact.
09:30Trujilloism remains in power.
09:32And I'm going to tell you one thing.
09:34I was Adam's personal friend.
09:37My Pochi was Trujillo's son.
09:40I was his personal friend.
09:42No, no, just that.
09:43You have two cousins, brother,
09:44and I have two uncles.
09:45He is part of the fan of...
09:46What are they, son?
09:47What are Trujillo's sons?
09:48Part of the fan of his friendship with me,
09:50of Radames,
09:51was that he wanted to meet Rafael,
09:56the son of Estialina.
09:57Who was his brother.
09:58He wanted to do it through me, yes.
10:00So I was a friend of Radames
10:03and that seems to have protected me.
10:06Because in the midst of the outburst of Ranfis,
10:10Radames or Negro Trujillo
10:13made me get home the message.
10:15That they would get you out of the country
10:16because they were going to kill you.
10:18Or they were going to put you in jail,
10:19or they were going to...
10:20Home, what they were going to do.
10:22Because the truth was
10:23that it was a terrible three months
10:25until they left.
10:27And they got me out
10:29because thanks to Mr. Trujillo,
10:31he had notified me,
10:33he had authorized my passport.
10:35Casually dated May 30, 1961.
10:39And I had my passport in my hand
10:41and they were able to get me out.
10:42Because one thing I have to clarify,
10:44that not everyone left here.
10:46Of course not.
10:47And that no one here had a passport at home.
10:50I mean, they gave it to you
10:51and when you arrived,
10:52they came back and took it from you.
10:54That's right.
10:55Those are the things that one does not imagine.
10:57That no one is supposed to.
10:58That no one imagines
10:59what it is to live in a dictatorship.
11:00Now let's go to a happier stage
11:02of the matter.
11:05Before going deeper
11:07and talk about other more current things.
11:10And how do you know
11:12the architect Mariano Sanz?
11:14Because coincidentally,
11:16first I am surprised
11:18when I see that,
11:20because I worked in public works,
11:23when I see that Mariano
11:25appears among the signers
11:28of the first letter
11:31that was the National Civic Union,
11:35which was the first group
11:38that faces the remnant
11:40of Trujillo and Balaguer
11:43almost three days after Trujillo's death.
11:45Three or four days.
11:47And I am surprised
11:48to see your father's name there.
11:51I did not imagine
11:52because no one talked about politics.
11:54But you already knew him.
11:55Yes, we were together at the university.
11:57Did you already have a loan?
11:58No.
12:00Oh no?
12:01No.
12:02At that time you did not have a loan?
12:04Well, my dear son.
12:06You say that now,
12:07sixty years later,
12:08who knew, who was he?
12:09Sixty-four.
12:10Ah, how good,
12:11better than that.
12:13No, the truth is that
12:15I had just talked to him.
12:17And just as I am surprised
12:19to see him in the Civic Union,
12:22as he is surprised
12:23to see me
12:25in the Student Federation
12:27and that brings us closer.
12:29It allows us to talk
12:31and that.
12:32And we began to exchange ideas.
12:34And it seems to me
12:36that he was more than anything worried.
12:38Because at that time
12:40there was a group
12:41called Los Paleros.
12:43And he was involved.
12:44It was a paramilitary group
12:46that hit people.
12:48That hit people.
12:49Continuing to talk about those beginnings,
12:51yours and my father's,
12:54at that time so convulsed.
12:56Yes, a lot.
12:57How was that coexistence,
12:58those first years of marriage?
13:00How was it?
13:01When did you decide
13:02to bring your son into the world?
13:03No, no, wait.
13:04I met your father in 1961.
13:06And already in 1963 we are married.
13:08A bit of a mess.
13:10Yes, it could be a mess.
13:12Look, it could be a mess.
13:14Then, already in 1963,
13:17Juan Bosch just won.
13:20Remember that the father
13:22of the founders of the PRD.
13:23Correct.
13:24And a great friend of Don Juan.
13:25And Don Juan lived in my house.
13:27You even worked with him.
13:29I worked with him.
13:30Not only that,
13:31but Don Juan to me,
13:33I always say,
13:34the special appreciation
13:35that I had for Don Juan
13:37and that he had for me.
13:38Because one day he sees me coming home
13:42with some papers under my arm
13:44and he says to me,
13:45my daughter, what is that
13:46that you have there?
13:47I say, oh,
13:48that I am alphabetizing
13:51a group of ladies
13:53in a neighbor's house
13:56and this is the alphabetization plan
14:00of the Catholic Church.
14:01Oh, for Don Juan that was.
14:04I don't remember the phrase
14:06of who it was,
14:07but he used that phrase,
14:08it was overwhelming.
14:09Give me the youth of the world.
14:11That's how I change it.
14:12I don't remember who it was.
14:13And then, at that moment,
14:16when you already decide to get married,
14:19Don Juan is in the government.
14:20Don Juan had just won.
14:22And at that moment,
14:23my father didn't go to Israel.
14:25No, Don Juan had just won
14:27in the government.
14:28And, well, we celebrated a lot,
14:32a complete party.
14:34You went to work in the government.
14:36I was the secretary of education.
14:39You were the assistant
14:40of the secretary of education.
14:41You were Buenaventura.
14:42Buenaventura Sánchez.
14:43Correct.
14:44Don Juan used to tell me,
14:45what does my secretary of education say?
14:47And tell us a little
14:50about that coup d'état.
14:51Well, about that,
14:52I'm going to tell you,
14:53we're celebrating,
14:54we're seeing everything,
14:56everything is going very well.
14:58And one day, my father tells Don Juan,
15:01Juan, you have to try to understand
15:07with the military.
15:09You are being very rigid with the military
15:12and that is not understood.
15:14The democracy that you are trying to bring,
15:16here we don't understand it.
15:19Don Juan was closed.
15:23And there was no way.
15:25I remember one day
15:26when we went to talk to him
15:28because Mariano wanted us to go to Japan
15:30for him to continue studying in Japan.
15:33And he received us first,
15:35that the military were there.
15:37Which, imagine you,
15:38at the protocol level.
15:39At the level of the military
15:41of that time.
15:43So, like that,
15:45no matter how much you tell him.
15:47I remember that scene
15:48that your father and my father
15:50went to look for him at the National Palace.
15:52What do you remember about that?
15:53We were going to work,
15:55Mariano and I,
15:56and we heard something.
15:58Already married and living together.
15:59Everything.
16:00The news of the coup d'état
16:02that all the stations have been closed.
16:04And I was just talking.
16:06Channel 4.
16:08That's what I remember, more or less.
16:10And instead of me going to work
16:12and Mariano,
16:13we thought a lot about mom and dad.
16:15And Charito and Colombina,
16:17who were still there,
16:18because Pocha was already married.
16:20Maximito was in Germany.
16:24So what we did was go home.
16:26When we were at home,
16:28it was just in time
16:30for them to take your grandfather to prison.
16:32They take him to prison?
16:34Yes, because they picked up
16:35the important leaders
16:37of the PRD.
16:39They took them to prison.
16:40And they had him in prison
16:42for two or three days.
16:44Juan was laid to rest
16:46on September 25th.
16:48And he was released on the 28th or 29th, right?
16:50Yes.
16:51The thing is,
16:53they take dad,
16:55they release him
16:57because the military had respect for him.
16:59And dad, at night,
17:01at six in the afternoon,
17:03they call him on the phone
17:05and he says to Mariano,
17:07Mariano, let's go there.
17:09Mariano says, Mariano, Mariano,
17:11where are we going?
17:13Let's go there because we have to go out.
17:15And Mariano says,
17:17Don Máximo, but don't you remember
17:19that the tanks are on the street?
17:21Of course, where the hell are we going?
17:23Let's go.
17:25So dad tells him,
17:27Mariano, we have to go
17:29look for Juan.
17:31He didn't have to say a word anymore.
17:33They went to look for him at the palace and they take him?
17:35No, no, they went first
17:37to Juanito Zuñiga's house,
17:39the Chilean ambassador,
17:41who was like my dad's brother.
17:43And it was a way of guaranteeing security?
17:45No, the Chilean ambassador
17:47didn't know what he was going to do either.
17:49So what was done was
17:51to put the Chilean ambassador's flag
17:53on the
17:55bumper of the cars.
17:57And then
17:59that's how they get to the palace.
18:01At the palace,
18:05the bumper is the front part.
18:07Yes.
18:09They get to the palace,
18:11they go up and don Juan is there
18:13without drinking water.
18:15In those three days he was there,
18:17don Juan didn't talk to anyone.
18:21He only greeted dad
18:23when dad arrived.
18:25And dad told him,
18:27I'm coming to pick you up.
18:29He said, yes, I know.
18:31I said, I'm with you.
18:33So Antonio Inver was also there.
18:35Antonio Inver went out
18:37in his clothes because Antonio Inver was going to accompany him.
18:39Correct.
18:41And
18:43under Mariano, they took him
18:45and they accompanied him to a
18:47frigate that came out of San Isidro.
18:49And they took him to Puerto Rico.
18:51Yes, they took him to Puerto Rico.
18:53But I'm going to tell you something.
18:55Tell me.
18:57Many years passed, many years,
18:59because the revolution had passed, all that.
19:01And one day I asked
19:03don Juan at home, because he always
19:05goes to our house,
19:07mine and Mariano's.
19:09I said, don Juan, why did you call
19:11dad at a time like that?
19:13And he didn't call anyone else
19:15because you had other friends in the PRD.
19:17He said,
19:19because the only one they had to kill
19:21to kill me was your dad.
19:23Hey, what a beautiful thing that is.
19:25That's what don Juan told me.
19:27Hey, what a beautiful thing.
19:29And now that you talk about all this story,
19:31tell me how you met Peñagome.
19:33What was your relationship with Peñagome?
19:35No, Peñagome came to my house
19:37skinny, like that.
19:39Young,
19:41he was the same age as your dad.
19:43Sure.
19:45And Peñagome,
19:47what was the voice
19:49of
19:51the party
19:53and the radio,
19:55the voice of the party,
19:57but he was not yet the leader
19:59or the leader he was.
20:01He was a boy.
20:03He was the same age as your dad.
20:05I married your dad, he was 26 years old.
20:07And that was Peñagome.
20:09Then Peñagome
20:11became a mother's son
20:13because they gave Peñagome a career.
20:15They gave him a career.
20:17Tell us the story of the time
20:19that your mother, my grandmother,
20:21is going to look for him,
20:23that she puts him under a skirt.
20:25How is that story?
20:27Well, no, no, Peñagome,
20:29I can tell you a story.
20:31I had an employee
20:33that you played a lot with him.
20:35Don't you remember?
20:37No, I don't remember.
20:39A boy from the service
20:41who cleaned my bed and everything.
20:43I don't remember.
20:45And in one of the mornings
20:47they thought it was Peñagome's son
20:49and they were going to take him.
20:51You have to remember.
20:53He was a little guy who played a lot with you.
20:55So Peña lived in my house
20:57and we loved him a lot.
20:59I loved him like a brother.
21:01For me he was truly a brother.
21:03You ask me
21:05how is it that my mother
21:07takes him out of a mess
21:09that she has here in Bata.
21:11No, no, wait.
21:13When he puts him,
21:15when my grandmother dies,
21:17Peñagome makes the panegyric.
21:19And Peñagome in the panegyric
21:21that is in the recipe book
21:23mentions it.
21:25He was persecuted.
21:27I'm going to say the following.
21:29You have to hear this.
21:31Not for you.
21:33Nobody knew that Camaño was coming.
21:35Here we have a guerrilla
21:37who survived
21:39and everyone,
21:41Don Juan was the only one
21:43who found out
21:45that Camaño was coming.
21:47And he didn't tell the PRD.
21:49Before that,
21:51they had killed the boys.
21:53We are talking about
21:55after the revolution.
21:57Camaño disembarks here
21:59in Caracoles.
22:01In Caracoles.
22:03And the first thing the government does
22:05is to go out and repress and arrest
22:07all the leaders of the PRD.
22:09Yes, but because they believed.
22:11Because there had been a group of boys
22:13who had risen
22:15to prepare
22:17the arrival of Camaño
22:19to find popular support.
22:21This was very left-wing.
22:23We weren't aware.
22:25I can tell you that my father
22:27didn't know a word
22:29because I was at the house
22:31of the chief of the navy
22:33playing dominoes with Mariano
22:35and with Rafael Bison and Carmencita.
22:37We were all playing dominoes.
22:39The day Camaño
22:41lands in Caracoles
22:43and the chief of the navy himself
22:45tells me, Mariano and you,
22:47you don't know what's going on.
22:49And I tell him, no, what's going on?
22:51And he says, call your father.
22:53I call my father
22:55and my father says no.
22:57So I put him on the phone with the general,
22:59the admiral, I think he was an admiral.
23:01And he says,
23:03you don't know about Camaño.
23:05And that's when my father
23:07finds out
23:09that Camaño
23:11has landed
23:13in Caracoles.
23:15Indeed, my father wasn't
23:17aware of this.
23:19I think it was a little later, I don't remember.
23:21But the point is that
23:23the one he wanted to kill was Peñagome.
23:25Because remember,
23:27Peñagome was the one who had launched...
23:29Yes, he was the leader.
23:31No, he was the one who had launched the people
23:33to the streets for the 1965 revolution.
23:35So Peñagome was already on the verge
23:37of being a participant in a revolution.
23:39So Peñagome was a usual suspect
23:41of a situation.
23:43No, Peñagome was the man to kill.
23:45So I want Joaquin Balaguer to protect him.
23:47Because it wasn't once or twice
23:49that they told Peñagome
23:51to hide.
23:53And so in this,
23:55Peñagome, who can't
23:57find where he wants to go,
23:59walking
24:01and standing,
24:03reaches the back
24:05of the Jaraguá Hotel.
24:07Which was like a dining room
24:09that had something there.
24:11And he sits there,
24:13and they surround him.
24:15The military surround him.
24:17A group that was there,
24:19I think it was called the Black Helmets,
24:21something like that.
24:23Which was to...
24:25If they grab you...
24:27And he can't find
24:29who to call.
24:31And sitting, eating,
24:33drinking something, he tells
24:35one of the men,
24:37call Don Máximo's house.
24:39He gives him the phone and says,
24:41tell him where I am.
24:43And the situation we have.
24:45The waiter
24:47goes and dials the phone
24:49of the house.
24:51Who picks up the phone is Mom.
24:53And he says, look, I'm talking
24:55on behalf of Peñagome.
24:57We're in this place.
24:59And he's surrounded
25:01by the Black Helmets.
25:03Mom says, tell him
25:05not to move, that I'm going to look for him.
25:07Mom was in Batola.
25:09That big Batola
25:11that I used,
25:13got in his car,
25:15without a driver if you will.
25:17He started to...
25:19I don't know if he was accompanied by Genito,
25:21I don't remember.
25:23He started to Jaragua.
25:25He got drunk.
25:27He turned to the military.
25:29He said, I'm coming to look for him.
25:31He didn't say his name.
25:33I'm coming to look for him.
25:35Tell Balaguer that he's going to be in my house.
25:37That if they want to kill him there, they're going to kill us all.
25:39He left with Peñagome.
25:41And everyone
25:43seeing that terrible old woman.
25:45Mom was the same.
25:47Peñagome left with her.
25:49He took her to my house.
25:51And nothing happened to Peñagome.
25:55I remember, I remember that
25:57Panegirico that even,
25:59there's a little part that you left out, but I'm going to tell you.
26:01That Peñagome,
26:03that was the third call he made.
26:05Ah, second.
26:07Because he called two people first.
26:09No one answered.
26:11They didn't go to look for him.
26:13I know who they were.
26:15You don't have to say that.
26:17But the truth is that
26:19it's fair to say that he left.
26:21There were two people who didn't want to go.
26:23He says it in the Panegirico.
26:25He doesn't mention the names, but he says it in the Panegirico.
26:27And now,
26:29all that story,
26:31a question to
26:33you,
26:35but I want to talk about other things with you.
26:37But a question.
26:39Being so friends with Peñagome
26:41and being so friends with Don Juan,
26:43why don't you go to the PLD
26:45and stay in the PRD?
26:47I'm going to tell you.
26:49Dad never explained
26:51the reason why Don Juan
26:53abruptly got up one day
26:55at the meeting
26:57of the PRD.
26:59And he said he was resigning.
27:01He told his friends to follow him.
27:03He did that.
27:05He told his friends to follow him.
27:07Dad stayed seated.
27:09Antonio stayed seated.
27:11The senator
27:13of La Romana stayed seated.
27:15Casimiro?
27:17No, no.
27:19You can't put me in this memory.
27:21Yes, my son is 83 years old.
27:23He stayed seated.
27:25Well, the old Robles
27:27stayed seated
27:29and only the youngest
27:31stayed seated with Don Juan.
27:33Despite that,
27:35Don Juan went home
27:37to look for Dad.
27:39And Dad said,
27:41No, Juan, you just
27:43reelected Valadier.
27:45I'm not going with you.
27:47This is still your house, but I'm not going with you.
27:49Dad stayed.
27:51The PRD doesn't split.
27:53And Don Juan,
27:55did that affect the personal relationship?
27:57Between Dad and Don Juan,
27:59or with us?
28:01You told me the story many years later
28:03when my grandfather was dying.
28:05No, no.
28:07He died of...
28:09Hepatitis.
28:11Hepatitis.
28:13And even that story
28:15that Don Juan practically closed his eyes.
28:17Don Juan was
28:19at his peak,
28:21and Alfredo was with Dad and me.
28:23Until Dad told him,
28:25Well, Juan, it looks like this is over.
28:27And Don Juan said,
28:29See you soon, Max.
28:31He waited for the last few years.
28:33Then it lasted a few more years, yes.
28:35But I always loved
28:37Don Juan a lot, I always loved him.
28:39I treated him the same.
28:41And now with all that history...
28:43But let me tell you,
28:45that in the 12 years he ruled the PRD,
28:47all those young people
28:49who were from the PRD
28:51and who knew us
28:53never closed a door
28:55in my face.
28:57Mom wasn't alive anymore.
28:59Of course not.
29:01But never. Every time I asked for something,
29:03you know that I usually
29:05ask for something else.
29:07I never saw any of those people
29:09in my house, but
29:11it was already a process.
29:13My generation...
29:15Of course it wasn't yours.
29:17But I must tell you that the boys
29:19who left, including Euclid Gutierrez...
29:21I remember Franklin Almeda.
29:23Franklin Almeda.
29:25Lido Medina.
29:27The one who managed the Reserve Bank.
29:29All those boys who left my house.
29:31With me, always.
29:33I can't say
29:35that for me it was another government.
29:37But...
29:39And now
29:41I know your friendship with Atuey,
29:43with Salvador, with Jacobo.
29:45With all of them, you maintained a relationship.
29:47With Atuey,
29:49I was one of the first
29:51who wanted to support him for president.
29:53I always liked
29:55Atuey for president.
29:57Because Atuey and I had more or less the same
29:59bad character.
30:01And now that you say that,
30:03what do you think about one of your
30:05children being a politician?
30:07But I couldn't do it any other way.
30:09No, but it's true. We are four, and mom
30:11picked me up with that.
30:13But you have the same
30:15inclinations as me and your father.
30:17You have a lot, a lot
30:19of your grandfather.
30:21Sometimes I see you talking and I get the impression
30:23that you are talking to dad.
30:25By the way, for those who don't know,
30:27I didn't know him.
30:29Because I didn't know him. He died
30:31when I was two years old. And who remembers when he was two years old?
30:33Of course not.
30:35In that
30:37work of formation,
30:39people don't know, for example, that you were the first
30:41president of the Dominican
30:43Women's Bank, which today is called
30:45Adopen.
30:47I am the founder of the Dominican
30:49Women's Bank, Adopen.
30:51We were a group of ladies.
30:53The president was Mercedes.
30:55I was president in the 90s.
30:57But we were
30:59the same group.
31:01I remember that my dad used to say
31:03that you were the only president of a bank
31:05in the world.
31:07You were president of a bank,
31:09but we never saw Linda from that bank.
31:11No.
31:13Look,
31:15we really founded,
31:17in the year of the woman,
31:19a special fund was created
31:21in the United Nations
31:23to develop
31:25the women of the third world.
31:27And here
31:29Mercedes had a meeting.
31:31Mercedes Canalda.
31:33One day I would like you to dare
31:35to interview her.
31:37But if not, Mercedes.
31:39Mercedes participated in one of those
31:41meetings.
31:43She called me, she called other ladies.
31:45And we have been together for 47 years.
31:47Working for
31:49the Dominican women.
31:51Creating the micro-businesses of the country.
31:53And of all your...
31:55You were a lawyer, you were a communicator.
31:57I even started, when I
31:59put this podcast, a lot of people told me
32:01but what for? And now you were
32:03an influencer, and now you were a communicator.
32:05And I said, no, because I was a communicator.
32:07And we were influencers.
32:09I was a communicator at 19 years old
32:11in a program that you had.
32:13And you were
32:15an exercise lawyer, communicator,
32:17president of a bank,
32:19political leader.
32:21I was president of
32:23the women with Jacobo.
32:25Political leader.
32:27But I achieved my goal.
32:29And what was your goal?
32:31That Peña and Jacobo got together.
32:33They got together, they couldn't win anymore.
32:35But they got together.
32:37And they became friends.
32:39They became friends.
32:41They were brothers.
32:43Brothers.
32:45And they fight for those things
32:47of politics. I never knew.
32:49But one thing, of all those roles,
32:51which is the one you
32:53most...
32:55My home, my family,
32:57your dad.
32:59Your dad...
33:01Your dad always behaved very well,
33:03he didn't cheat, none of that.
33:05No.
33:07Above all,
33:09with the other character
33:11that you mention, the beautiful writer.
33:13Oh, yes, many people liked him.
33:15With which other character?
33:17The other character that didn't say a single bad word
33:19in your case.
33:21Ah, of course not. That was you.
33:23Yes, that extraordinary character.
33:25Well, Mariano and I had a very good marriage.
33:27Yes.
33:29With his salsa.
33:31And how do you maintain a 60-year marriage?
33:33Nowadays that gets complicated.
33:35It was 63, my son.
33:37Ok, but let's reduce it to 60.
33:39Ok, 63.
33:41What is the key to maintaining a 63-year marriage?
33:43A lot of love.
33:45A lot of love? A lot of love.
33:47And what else?
33:49If I could say it here...
33:51But say it, it doesn't matter.
33:53And many bad words.
33:55But also a lot of forgiveness, say it too.
33:57Above all.
33:59Ah, but for you to love, you have to forgive.
34:01Without forgiveness.
34:03The one who loves and doesn't forgive.
34:05It's not bad.
34:07What are you doing?
34:09He's taking what he wants.
34:13Wait, wait.
34:15And one thing.
34:17A question.
34:19From that stage
34:21that I tell a lot.
34:25I remember
34:27that when I was very little
34:29I had a very powerful family.
34:31And I didn't even have one.
34:33That comes and goes in life.
34:35Being up,
34:37being down, having money
34:39and then not having it.
34:41Explain to me how it's handled.
34:43I'll explain it to you.
34:45I'll explain it to you.
34:47Because the truth is that people don't believe it.
34:49But I...
34:51No problem if you don't believe it.
34:53I tell a lot of people,
34:55now when we go to the council of ministers
34:57that they want to call me poppy.
34:59I say, well, I'm a poppy.
35:01But you were born poppy, what the fuck do you care?
35:03I say, well, I'm a weird poppy.
35:05And what?
35:07But let me tell you something.
35:09In my house, we always had
35:11a privileged economic position.
35:13At the time, no.
35:15Wait.
35:17But your father's money was made by your father.
35:19Correct.
35:21And he did it with a lot of work.
35:23Trujillo was an obelisk and he made three.
35:25And what happened?
35:27They were gone.
35:29A terrible thing happened.
35:31He changed the currency.
35:33It was when the peso
35:35went to three or four
35:37per one.
35:39In the sales, which I didn't manage
35:41to clarify.
35:43In the sales, the
35:45change of the currency
35:47paragraph had not been put
35:49because he had never changed
35:51the currency.
35:53And well, we had problems
35:55to finish it. And your father
35:57invested everything
35:59he had earned
36:01in 40 years of work.
36:03He did not leave without finishing
36:05a single apartment.
36:07That later, the truth is so unfair
36:09that some...
36:11There are some things,
36:13but you have to interview me so I can make that story.
36:15Of all the things we lived in that time.
36:17But in general, how do you
36:19handle that ups and downs in life?
36:21I'll tell you again,
36:23my love, with a lot of love.
36:25Because I didn't want
36:27that business.
36:29Because we were not doing very well.
36:31We lived like princes.
36:33And we traveled every two years.
36:35We went to Europe every two years.
36:37With rented cars, everything
36:39we wanted.
36:41I didn't want that business because
36:43for me it was too big.
36:45A real estate business.
36:47Very big.
36:49Well, but what the hell,
36:51there it is.
36:53And it's a beauty.
36:55I wouldn't be sitting here without that.
36:57The thing is that when that happened,
36:59I never said
37:01I told you.
37:03You said I told you a couple of times.
37:05What you didn't say a lot.
37:07No, I never told him I told you.
37:09I wanted to kill him, that's different.
37:11Thank God you didn't kill him.
37:13I never said I told you.
37:15Then we had to move on.
37:17You and I put on the TV show.
37:19We did more than that.
37:21We moved on.
37:23Look at us here.
37:25And what family do we have?
37:27Thank God.
37:29God has protected us.
37:31And who don't you have today?
37:33We have the most important thing,
37:35which is health and happiness.
37:37But not only that.
37:39Wait, wait, wait.
37:41Let me tell you.
37:43Look, I've told you
37:45Don't investigate me for that bullshit.
37:47You're going to have to condemn me.
37:49Don't worry.
37:51Don't worry.
37:53They can tell you at least two things about me.
37:55One of those
37:57is that I take what I don't take.
37:59No, no.
38:01Whoever says it is going to see me.
38:03Because I said it the other day.
38:05You made a mess with Danilo Medina once.
38:07Danilo Medina said something about me.
38:09You tweeted. I told you not to argue with the presidents.
38:11I argue with anyone.
38:13Don't worry about that.
38:15I argue with anyone.
38:17Look, I'm here now.
38:19Remember, you're not Doña Zayda anymore.
38:21You're the mother of Yayo.
38:23Yes, but wait a minute.
38:25Wait, there are more things to talk about.
38:27Wait.
38:29One of the things...
38:31It's not Jenny.
38:33Leave the magistrate and the attorney alone.
38:35She has a lot of work.
38:37Look, you know that
38:39one of the things that people always
38:41I'm surprised because
38:43even though I live in Tiguerito,
38:45I'm already 48 years old
38:47and people still talk to me about my grandmother.
38:49And they still mention her.
38:51And you left.
38:53People sometimes get confused if it was my grandfather or if it was you.
38:55What happens is that a lot of people don't know
38:57that both were directors of
38:59the Public Show Commission.
39:01No, I'm the lawyer.
39:03No, but you were an intern.
39:05When my mother died.
39:07Salvador wanted to leave me.
39:09I told him, look, Salvador.
39:11My mother's boots.
39:13Only mom.
39:15Because mom, I'm going to tell you
39:17that there are things that people have to hear and see.
39:21Why that extraordinary power
39:23of mom.
39:25Mom helped a lot of people
39:27in the time of Trujillo.
39:29She helped a lot of people
39:31in the time of the terrible 12 years of Balaguer.
39:33But also,
39:35mom was never left-wing.
39:37And once
39:39they started to bring here
39:41some
39:4324-millimeter films
39:47that were taken to the fields.
39:51And one day
39:53a general came to my office.
39:57A civilian.
39:59He said, Mrs. Saida, we want you to see
40:01some films
40:03that the Cultural Cinematheque is bringing.
40:07I said, mom, no, but I don't have authority
40:09over the Cultural Cinematheque.
40:11He said, no, but Mrs. Saida, come with us.
40:13I said, please.
40:15Mom tells me, let's go.
40:17I was her lawyer.
40:19I was nothing else.
40:21I even worked for free at that time.
40:23And then
40:25I go with mom
40:27and when they take us to the
40:29Armed Forces Cinema.
40:33The rolls,
40:35we didn't have them.
40:37It was like the Chilean ones.
40:39How they were made,
40:41they were cut
40:43into pieces.
40:45And that happened
40:47as cultural
40:49in the fields of
40:51the Dominican Republic.
40:53Mom only needed to see one.
40:55And she told the head of the DNI
40:57who was the one who had gone to look for us.
40:59He said, no, no, pick them up.
41:01No, Mrs. Saida, but
41:03bring them to me, bring them to me.
41:05Pick them up, tell them it was me.
41:09Even Mr. Antonio called mom.
41:13And when they brought her, mom burned her.
41:15The person in charge
41:17of the Cultural Cinematheque
41:19went
41:21and mom told him, you're not in jail
41:23because I'm going to get you
41:25out of the country.
41:27I'm going to tell Antonio to get you out of the country.
41:29But if you bring that crap again,
41:31you're going to jail.
41:33And in that reality, I remember, I'll tell you
41:35because I shared a lot with my grandmother.
41:37Unlike my grandfather, I remember
41:39her complaints with Freddy Vera,
41:41with Fernando Villarroel, with Sergio Vargas.
41:47With all those merengueros
41:49that they still tell me everything.
41:51But wait, that's what's coming.
41:53That then the power of mom
41:55becomes the DNI.
41:57Sure.
41:59That's what mom wanted.
42:01At that time, I don't know what it was,
42:03something they called the crystals.
42:05You must know about that.
42:07The television crystals.
42:09Every time mom said,
42:11this program is not going.
42:13And if they put it, mom
42:15only had to call the DNI.
42:17Now that we are in this time
42:19of so much openness
42:21and so many things,
42:23how do you think we could
42:25regulate this?
42:27Well, I can also tell you.
42:29With this head of the DNI
42:31and with a head of the
42:33National Police whose name
42:35I don't remember now.
42:37We had a meeting.
42:39When the famous internet
42:41started
42:43and mom was explained
42:45that this was
42:47because of the tertian waves,
42:49that this, that the other.
42:51And mom said,
42:53but how is that?
42:55I was explaining to her yesterday.
42:57She told the military
42:59that no one is going to control that.
43:01No one can
43:03control that.
43:05Or Allah doesn't come to the country.
43:07And no one has been able to control it.
43:09But let's see.
43:11But look at the years that have passed.
43:13But look at what formula we were looking for.
43:15And one thing.
43:17What role
43:19have you played in your life
43:21throughout all these things and all these experiences,
43:23Eduardo José.
43:25Well, Eduardo José.
43:27Now that you say it.
43:29I can say that I have two stages.
43:31The first one,
43:33until you were born.
43:35Because when you were born
43:37I was already converted.
43:39Do you remember that you told me,
43:41I gave you birth.
43:43So,
43:45I was a Catholic,
43:47a practitioner,
43:49but I hadn't discovered Jesus Christ.
43:51So,
43:53I became,
43:55I knew the word of God
43:57with Braulio Porte.
43:59And there,
44:01not only
44:03did I improve,
44:05I knew Jesus,
44:07but I also improved my marriage.
44:09I improved my life with you.
44:11I improved everything, everything.
44:13And look what happened when we lost the money.
44:15I can, that's how it was.
44:17That's how it was.
44:19When,
44:21saying it in popular terms,
44:23the more fucked up we were,
44:25the more we prayed.
44:27No, no, no, I didn't pray for that.
44:29I had discovered,
44:31which is what I tell you.
44:33There was a phrase that your father used a lot,
44:35which was that when they went to an inauguration,
44:37people prayed to see Balaguer.
44:39Undress him, we want to see him.
44:41And I said that I,
44:43that I undressed Jesus Christ
44:45so that people would see him.
44:47And after that,
44:49you became a preacher.
44:51Yes, I still teach the word
44:53to everyone.
44:55And the truth is that that was,
44:57and the flip-flops also ran out.
44:59It was the fault of the growers.
45:01You know that now,
45:03I laugh a lot about this new
45:05way of educating.
45:07It turns out that now,
45:09so that you can see how life is,
45:11if any of my children
45:13have a meeting at school,
45:15I don't know,
45:17they have 36 meetings a week,
45:19there are 200 committees,
45:21the guy graduates
45:23from the first week
45:25writing with red pencils.
45:27And you have to go to everything,
45:29because if you don't go,
45:31it turns out that the guy is going to be a psychopath
45:33who is going to throw you out the window.
45:35And I remember my childhood,
45:37I think you,
45:39I mean, you found out at school
45:41that I was at a Christmas.
45:43And my dad,
45:45and my dad even less,
45:47and now I laugh because,
45:49for example, these days I had a discussion
45:51with my son Manuel, who is 13 years old,
45:53which is quite entertaining,
45:55and his mom tells me,
45:57what are you doing here,
45:59you're not looking,
46:01she tells me, but wait, don't treat him like that,
46:03because I poured a lot of water on him.
46:05I've warmed him up with the guy,
46:07I poured a lot of water on him,
46:09so that the guy would react.
46:11They almost put a querella
46:13against me.
46:15How many times didn't I wake you up with water?
46:17No, no, but it wasn't with the water,
46:19it's that you broke
46:21the glass in my head.
46:23No, not the glass.
46:25You know that there are crimes
46:27that you can't commit.
46:29But what I want to tell you is,
46:31this new way of educating,
46:33you have to educate yourself to choke alive.
46:35Well, still Mariano Alberto, who is the oldest,
46:37tells me that he does have
46:39the right to choke.
46:41No, but the truth is that we got beaten
46:43for a tube and seven keys.
46:45Me too, they hit me a lot.
46:47Yes, but what happens is that I'm here
46:49talking. I don't have another model.
46:51My dear mother, I am giving a testimony here
46:53that the arrival of Jesus Christ to our hearts
46:55was useful, important,
46:57because after Jesus Christ,
46:59the blows diminished, it was not that they disappeared,
47:01it was not that they disappeared.
47:03They were fairer.
47:05I remember.
47:07This is your dad so decent.
47:09No, my dad never put his hand on me.
47:11Once he gave me a slap
47:13because I painted his car.
47:15And then, well, quite exaggerated
47:17on my part, because I didn't like
47:19the color of the car and he gave me a slap.
47:21And with paintbrush.
47:23And with paintbrush.
47:25But at the end of the day.
47:27And you complain.
47:29But you hit me because I walked.
47:31So that you walked straight.
47:33And what I say is that now it turns out
47:35that I would have arrested you.
47:37Yes, but look.
47:39And I take prison with pleasure.
47:41But I have to tell you.
47:43I still look at my grandchildren.
47:45But I have to tell you the following.
47:47Because you, I don't know if it's that
47:49I think you have already won heaven,
47:51God through you.
47:53But you don't let me hit my children in front of you.
47:55You don't like that.
47:57That is the privilege of grandmothers.
47:59How so? Explain it to me.
48:01Grandmothers have the right to mistreat.
48:03You educate your children at home.
48:05In my house, no.
48:07The truth is that I have to tell you
48:09with sincerity.
48:11That you, the mothers
48:13who raised my generation.
48:15They should give a tutorial, a matter,
48:17because this has been relaxed now.
48:19With this issue that psychologists,
48:21that I don't know what.
48:23What a fucking psychologist.
48:25There is no better psychologist than a flip-flop in the hand.
48:27And stop there. I'm going to hit you.
48:29What was the biggest rope
48:31that you took with me that you remember now?
48:33With you.
48:35What can you say?
48:37Look, let's leave it there.
48:39Let's talk about Marianito.
48:41Talk about Marianito better.
48:43What was the biggest rope that you took with Marianito?
48:45Oh, Marianito gave me a torment.
48:47Oh, fuck.
48:49But it's right there.
48:51More or less. We have corrected it.
48:53What was the biggest spike that you took with him?
48:55With Marianito and me?
48:57I remember.
48:59No, mami, my head hurts.
49:01What is this? I can't go.
49:03And when we came,
49:05the house was clean, everything was fine.
49:07When one day
49:09I found out about the party
49:11that your brother was having at home.
49:13Exactly.
49:15We were just going out on one side
49:17and he was partying on the other.
49:19That took a lot of beating.
49:21Oh, oh, oh. And stop there.
49:23I was counting to three.
49:25Ah, yes.
49:27He was going to the back of the yard.
49:29Two.
49:31When he came, I was counting to three
49:33and you stop there. I'm going to hit you.
49:35Now, you were kind of sexist
49:37because you never touched my sisters.
49:39No, why? They're two angels.
49:41Two angels? Yes.
49:43I don't remember them being so angelic.
49:45They didn't do anything.
49:47What happens is that
49:49fuck the men.
49:51You were tremendous.
49:53If it hadn't been like that, mami.
49:55Ay.
49:57You couldn't have been good.
49:59Wait, wait.
50:01You have a weird twist.
50:03I don't know. Wait, wait.
50:05The problem that you and I have
50:07is that we're both very honest.
50:09Don't worry, we won't say everything now
50:11because the 28th is there.
50:13Ah, no, not the 28th.
50:15The greatest gentleman.
50:17Of course, of course.
50:19Help me, help me.
50:21I'm going to tell you something.
50:23It's a lie.
50:25Let's not exaggerate.
50:27But you're a prize. Hopefully in this country.
50:29But wait, we can't say it
50:31that way yet.
50:33You can't yet.
50:35Not that way yet.
50:37And why do people tell me that on the street?
50:39Well, because I always say,
50:41I really like a phrase,
50:43if you walk like a duck, if you talk like a duck,
50:45if you swim like a duck, it's because you're a duck.
50:47Besides, you're in politics for that.
50:49Well, but now we're
50:51and you know the relationship that I have
50:53and the affection that I have and the loyalty
50:55that I have with Luis, with the president.
50:57And now we're waiting for him to do well.
50:59That has to be the first thing.
51:01But if he doesn't do well, you're not going anywhere.
51:03Exactly. So we have first
51:05If Luis doesn't do well,
51:07there's nothing to do.
51:09So we have first to make him do well.
51:11But you're doing it.
51:13I'm very proud of your work, you know that.
51:15Well, let's hope in God.
51:17And of Luis' work.
51:19I feel very proud
51:21of the president.
51:23Sometimes you talk more with him than I do.
51:25That doesn't matter.
51:27I love him very much.
51:29And when I don't like something, I write to him.
51:31Wait, be gentle, be gentle.
51:33Look, at the end of the day,
51:35I want
51:37our friends
51:39to accompany us in this interview.
51:41Who was a person
51:43that you admired a lot
51:45during your life, in your work?
51:47Someone that you would use as an example.
51:49I have two examples,
51:51really.
51:53Which ones?
51:55My father and your father.
51:57And now that you mention
51:59my grandfather and my father,
52:01what things would you say
52:03remind you
52:05of my father when you
52:07see me or talk to me?
52:09Well, you have a lot of value.
52:11You think?
52:13Oh God, I don't know.
52:15You have a lot of value.
52:17You are an integral person.
52:21You, of your father and your grandfather,
52:23you are very similar to your grandfather.
52:25And of your father and him,
52:27you have that charisma.
52:29You like people.
52:33You feel
52:35that if you could solve everything,
52:37you would.
52:39Well, what a beautiful conversation.
52:41The truth is that...
52:43But don't talk a lot about your father.
52:45We talk, and also,
52:47this could be the first show.
52:49When you come to see us,
52:51we can do several good shows.
52:53Yes, but let me get older
52:55because you have given me a job
52:57to fix myself today.
52:59Don't worry.
53:01We are going to record the next show
53:03at your house so we don't have to...
53:05This place is so beautiful.
53:07Yes, this is the office of a great
53:09and dear friend of mine,
53:11but don't worry.
53:13Anyone who sees him will give him a dollar
53:15so he can buy...
53:17Exactly.
53:19He is good, but bad.
53:21Gentlemen,
53:23the truth is that
53:25I always enjoy doing this podcast,
53:27but today, for obvious reasons,
53:29it has been the one I liked the most.
53:31Me too.
53:33Thank you all very much.
53:35God bless you.
53:41God bless you.
54:11God bless you.
54:13God bless you.
54:15God bless you.
54:17God bless you.
54:19God bless you.
54:21God bless you.