- 5/23/2025
Sawal Yeh Hai | Maria Memon | DG ISPR Exposed India | ARY News | 23rd May 2025
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00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Maria Mehman and today's top stories is about Indian Proxies in Balochistan.
00:25In this program, we will talk about the way in which the school bus of children has been
00:30hijacked.
00:31After that, we will talk about the steps taken by the Pakistani state.
00:35After that, in the Pakistan-India war, the US President Trump has repeatedly mentioned
00:39this.
00:40He also mentioned this in front of the President of South Africa.
00:41In the second part of the program, we will talk about this from Washington.
00:44After that, the verdict of the Noor Mukaddam murder case is still pending.
00:47It was a test case of the Pakistani criminal system and it proved that it can also punish
00:52people by force.
00:54Let's start.
00:55On May 21, in Balochistan, children were going to a school bus in the morning with the intention
01:00of their studies, with the desire to study.
01:03And then we saw that those disturbing visuals came in front of us, where that bus was attacked
01:08and targeted and the lives of those children were lost.
01:11So far, the death toll has come in front of us.
01:13Almost 6 people are martyred in it.
01:15There are 4 students.
01:16What is their age?
01:1710 years, 11 years, 12 years.
01:19There were days to laugh, play, jump.
01:21They had dreams.
01:22They had the desire to grow up and become something.
01:25They were all snatched away.
01:27And this incident did not happen for the first time in Pakistan and Balochistan.
01:31A few months ago, in Jaffar Express, people were being targeted when they were going
01:36back to their homes for Eid.
01:38Today, the state of Pakistan has taken a major policy decision.
01:43In the name of Fitnah-ul-Hindustan, this terrorist group will be called.
01:48It will be discussed.
01:49What did the DGISPR say?
01:51This is what the terrorists of Fitnah-ul-Hindustan did on 21st May, on the orders of India.
01:57Is there any humanity in this?
01:59Is there any Balochism in this?
02:00Is there any Pakistani in this?
02:02On 21st May, 6 innocent children were martyred.
02:0551 are injured.
02:07Maximum there are children fighting for their lives.
02:09What is this?
02:10This is the real face of Fitnah-ul-Hindustan.
02:13This is the real face of that epicenter of destabilization in the region, that is India.
02:19Who is prosecuting this, planning it, instructing it.
02:22What is the way forward here?
02:24The kinetic operations will also be increased.
02:26But at the same time, the national action plan also needs to be reviewed.
02:30Let's see what policy decision was taken in this regard.
02:34Continuous operations are going on at the moment.
02:37You are seeing the figures that Mr. Jan has shared with you.
02:41As we speak, Inshallah, in due course, it will increase.
02:45And Inshallah, we will eliminate all these elements over time.
02:48That the elements of national power, the national action plan that Mr. Shakti talked about,
02:52this is completely in place.
02:54There is always improvement in it.
02:55There is an investment of improvement in everything.
02:56This is against terrorism.
02:58Your 13 points in the national action plan, the revised national plan,
03:01the security forces acting against terrorism,
03:04all these are working on it.
03:05We ourselves say that there is a shortage.
03:06There is a positive improvement in every work.
03:10After the defeat in the direct war,
03:12now the proxy war has accelerated from the side of India.
03:16But the incident of children's martyrdom is such that everyone's heart is cut off all over the world.
03:20Which country did not condemn this incident?
03:23Which country did not call it terrorism?
03:26The statements from the US Embassy in Pakistan have come forward.
03:31They have seen that they have fully condemned it.
03:34The UK has condemned this incident.
03:38Russia has openly condemned the lives of the children who went to Khuzdar.
03:45Canada has expressed its concern and sadness.
03:49In addition, we saw that Turkey, our old friend,
03:52who also helped us in this fight,
03:54openly condemned it and also condemned it.
03:58UNICEF, which is concerned about the children,
04:01and every child's blood is first,
04:03they also expressed their condolences to the families.
04:07They said that they stand with the state of Pakistan in solidarity.
04:11In addition, China, which stands with Pakistan in every difficult time,
04:15has also openly condemned this incident from China.
04:18Germany has named this horrendous attack.
04:23And it has also been said that the whole world is in shock
04:26from the incidents of killing children.
04:29UNSC, that is, the United Nations Security Council,
04:33has condemned this incident.
04:35And the whole world is seeing this incident from the point of view of hatred.
04:40Before the program, Dr. Maria Sultan is with us.
04:43She is a defense expert.
04:44Thank you very much, Maria Sahiba, for joining us.
04:46FITNA TUL HINDUSTAN
04:48We have seen that there has been a major policy shift
04:50in Balochistan.
04:51There is an aggressive stance.
04:53We are also talking about aggressive diplomacy.
04:55But at the same time, we have also changed the name.
04:57FITNA TUL HINDUSTAN
04:59If you look at the whole context,
05:01what is the significance of this name change?
05:05What is the purpose of this?
05:08Look, it has a lot of significance.
05:10Because whenever an enemy creates a war-like environment for you,
05:16whoever makes a battlefield for you,
05:18the foundation is first and foremost on the narrative.
05:20And in the narrative, of course, they see your weaknesses.
05:23They see what your connection is.
05:26And how it can be expressed internally and externally.
05:29That is why the name you have taken, FITNA TUL HINDUSTAN,
05:32is very important to clarify your internal challenges
05:35and your current internal challenges with Balochistan,
05:39the terrorist organization that is associated with Balochistan.
05:43Because as soon as you talk about the issues of Balochistan,
05:46and if you call them BLA, BRA, or any other name,
05:50then instead of counter-terrorism, it goes towards counter-insurgency.
05:53That is, where your challenges are linked with them.
05:56But we all know that the terrorism that Pakistan has to face in Balochistan
06:01is not because every Baloch is terrorizing.
06:04Rather, it is because the terrorism that is happening in Balochistan
06:08is happening from India,
06:10in which Afghanistan's land is being used,
06:12America's weapons are being used.
06:14And their Indian intelligence agencies are using their money.
06:21At the same time, their U.S. training is also being used.
06:24Whether it is the Gulbashin Yadav case or any other case,
06:28even if we look at it from any angle,
06:30we can see that,
06:32as Ajit Dogal or other people have said,
06:35that the case they did in 1971,
06:38the Muktibani case,
06:40they are trying to do the same case in Balochistan.
06:43So, this is a clear explanation
06:45as to where the terrorists of Balochistan go.
06:48It is your frame of reference.
06:50And your internal challenges,
06:52you will look at them from a different point of view.
06:54And to change them,
06:56you have de-linked the debate of counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency.
07:01Now, we can see that the ceasefire has been done.
07:04Since Modi has created a war hysteria,
07:06it is taking time for it to come down from the escalation ladder.
07:10But this proxy war,
07:12are you seeing it being accelerated?
07:14Because there is a ceasefire on the borders.
07:16India and Pakistan are talking to each other.
07:19There is pressure from the US as well.
07:21So, will our friendly neighbors pay more attention to this?
07:26We will definitely look at it.
07:28Because the biggest problem of Modi's government is that,
07:31after an 11-year government,
07:33Modi cannot bring about a clear economic success for India.
07:38His negotiations with Trump were not as successful as he had expected.
07:43Along with this,
07:45the drama he tried to create in the war,
07:48he could not respond to it.
07:50And you have achieved an indisputable victory.
07:54Now, in such a situation,
07:56it is a very big problem to craft the notion of victory.
07:58Then, all these wars,
08:00they fought on the issue of joining the campaign against terrorism.
08:04Now, in such a situation,
08:06it is very important for them to craft a notion of victory.
08:11Obviously, if they cannot fight a conventional war,
08:14then they will use the non-traditional influence.
08:17And in this non-traditional influence,
08:19the most vulnerable point,
08:21which is an easy access point for them,
08:23is to create a wave of terrorism in Balochistan,
08:25using the links with Afghanistan,
08:27the criminal networks,
08:29the drug mafias,
08:31the terrorist networks.
08:34So, at this time,
08:36we are facing a lot of challenges from India.
08:38Firstly, in Balochistan,
08:40there is FITNA-AL-HINDISTAN,
08:42which they will increase in terrorism.
08:44They will increase it in KP.
08:46They can target your military and senior political leadership.
08:50Along with this,
08:52they can target your important organizations.
08:56Because, look,
08:58their problem is not that they can win a big war against you.
09:02Their biggest problem is that
09:04they don't have a notion of victory.
09:06And because they don't have a notion of victory,
09:08they cannot achieve their political achievements
09:11in India,
09:13neither at the external level,
09:15nor at the regional level.
09:17And the biggest thing is that
09:19the Indian military has been defeated historically.
09:22Not in two domains,
09:24not in three domains,
09:26but in all the real domains,
09:28they have failed.
09:30And because of this failure,
09:32their defence partnerships,
09:34their regional partnership,
09:36their international partnership,
09:38and the biggest thing is that
09:40for the first time,
09:42they have lost the war of narrative,
09:44in which the people of Pakistan have come out.
09:46And the narrative built by you,
09:48which you did the responsible coverage of it,
09:50and you explained it from the point of view of Pakistan,
09:52they have achieved a lot of things from it.
09:54But, when you talk about narrative,
09:56my next point was that
09:58even if the narrative of India is false,
10:00but they have highlighted that issue
10:02at the global level.
10:04The biggest thing is that
10:06Pakistan is constantly facing terrorism.
10:08You didn't come out of the Jaffar Express incident,
10:10they did a revolution.
10:12You didn't come out of the revolution,
10:14they did a terrorist attack on your children in Khuzdar.
10:16You are in a constant state of war.
10:18As they say,
10:20war is a developing story.
10:22For you, war and terrorism
10:24is a developing story.
10:26You don't come out of it,
10:28that the enemy attacks you somewhere else.
10:30If you don't come out of it,
10:32they attack the Chinese.
10:34If you don't come out of it,
10:36they attack somewhere else.
10:38You have faced more than 500 terrorist attacks
10:40in a month.
10:42You have faced incidents.
10:44Your intelligence-based operations
10:46are in thousands.
10:48It means that in thousands,
10:50your intelligence agencies
10:52make the incidents of terrorism
10:54in thousands.
10:56If you have even 1% of it,
10:58it has a huge impact.
11:00Secondly,
11:02the footage of terrorism
11:04is available to the Indian media.
11:06The Jaffar Express incident
11:08in Khuzdar,
11:10a day before that,
11:12the Jaffar Express
11:14untold,
11:16hidden footage
11:18was released by Times India.
11:20Apart from that,
11:22the Jaffar Express
11:24and other television channels
11:26released it.
11:28Then they said that
11:30in the Gudi media,
11:32a woman said that
11:34Balochistan has become free.
11:36In a way,
11:38their terrorism
11:40against Pakistan
11:42is linked to information operations.
11:44If you want to reverse it,
11:46you have to do 2-3 things.
11:48First,
11:50you have to deal with the challenges
11:52of Balochistan.
11:54Terrorism and counter-terrorism.
11:56Secondly,
11:58if you want to solve the counter-insurgency,
12:00you have to build a state.
12:02For that, you need laws.
12:04You need political seriousness.
12:06It is important to emphasize
12:08that the counter-insurgency,
12:10to solve the challenges of people,
12:12you have to make political decisions
12:14and legal decisions.
12:16After that, you have to inform the public.
12:18But when there is an incident of terrorism,
12:20we are not yet completing
12:22the investigation.
12:24Then,
12:26your judiciary
12:28is in nowhere.
12:30At this time,
12:32after all the incidents of terrorism,
12:34you do not have
12:36a judicial witness protection program.
12:38You cannot protect your judiciary.
12:40You cannot protect your witnesses.
12:42You cannot protect your counter-terrorism departments.
12:44Secondly,
12:46your CT departments
12:48will go to all the provinces
12:50after the 18th amendment.
12:52This means that it will terrorize you.
12:54It will use Balochistan's land,
12:56collect finances from Karachi
12:58and attack in KP.
13:00But your counter-terrorism departments
13:02are talking to each other.
13:04They are also active.
13:06But they are doing it informally.
13:08You do not have a national counter-terrorism department.
13:10You have NECTA,
13:12but your CT structure,
13:14which is a kinetic structure, does not exist.
13:16Your political parties have talked about it.
13:18The national action plan
13:20which was stopped,
13:22you are doing politics on it.
13:24After the Piyan-ul-Mursus incident,
13:26what has come out is that
13:28you should not have a single opinion
13:30that you are facing
13:32a very evil enemy.
13:34An enemy that can attack your children.
13:36An enemy that can say that
13:38Karachi has sunk
13:40and they have attacked its port.
13:42Now you tell me,
13:44the media that can lie on this level,
13:46who will go to this level?
13:48We talked about the national action plan
13:50at the press conference today.
13:52There should be a review
13:54and an upgrade.
13:56In which areas
13:58should there be an upgrade?
14:00Are there gaps?
14:02The implementation of the first national action plan
14:04was not as good as it should have been.
14:06The implementation of the first national action plan
14:08was not as good as it should have been.
14:10In the national action plan,
14:12your kinetic operations were successful.
14:14But you cannot kill everyone
14:16with kinetic operations.
14:18You face challenges
14:20because there are gaps.
14:22You have to fix those gaps.
14:24For example, if you have 80% B areas in Balochistan,
14:26you have to convert it from B area to A area.
14:28If you have 80,000 FCs
14:30and 60-80% people
14:32do not come,
14:34you have to take accountability for this.
14:36You can accommodate people politically.
14:38You can accommodate these leaders.
14:40You can accommodate whoever you want.
14:42But you have crossed the red line
14:44on some things.
14:46The red line is that
14:48if it comes to law and order,
14:50if it comes to your security,
14:52if it comes to your economic sustenance.
14:54But the common Baloch
14:56is very criminalized and focused.
14:58You are getting criminal networks
15:00from Afghanistan and Iran.
15:02We should not forget Mark Mark.
15:04What happened in Mark Mark?
15:06The people involved in terrorism
15:08in Balochistan
15:10were surprised
15:12that they were terrorizing your country.
15:14The same people were sitting in Afghanistan.
15:16The same people were moving forward
15:18with the matter of India.
15:20What was the deputy interior minister
15:22of Afghanistan doing in India?
15:24Obviously, he got financial aid from them.
15:26After getting financial aid,
15:28all the terrorist groups
15:30should be pushed back.
15:32But for all these things,
15:34you have to take an action.
15:36And this action should not be done
15:38by closing your eyes.
15:40Your political parties
15:42and your chief ministers
15:44have to understand
15:46that the enemy will not care
15:48if you are Punjabi, Baloch or Sindhi.
15:50When there is a terrorist attack,
15:52they attack everyone.
15:54What do you think
15:56the children in this bus
15:58have done?
16:00How many of you were Punjabi?
16:02How many of you were from the PTI?
16:04How many of you were from the Green League?
16:06How many of you were from which party?
16:08They have attacked your country
16:10and your civilians.
16:12We do not have to do politics
16:14on some things.
16:16We have to decide on some things
16:18in the right direction
16:20at the right time.
16:22Thank you very much, Dr. Maria Sultan.
16:24You will be with us in the next segment
16:26of the program.
16:28Trump has once again
16:30said in the White House
16:32during a press conference
16:34that he has stopped the war
16:36between Pakistan and India.
16:38India continues to deny this.
16:40We are talking about trade.
16:42What is happening in Washington?
16:44We will ask him after the break.
16:48Welcome back.
16:50It's been about two weeks
16:52since the standoff between Pakistan and India
16:54and the ceasefire is still going on.
16:56But it seems that
16:58in President Trump's priority agenda,
17:00the matter of Pakistan and India
17:02is still on high priority.
17:04We have seen that in the past two weeks,
17:06President Trump has taken the credit
17:08of the ceasefire
17:10between Pakistan and India
17:12almost eight times
17:14at different times.
17:16The reason for this is that
17:18I had offered a trade
17:20and both the countries agreed.
17:22If the White House and South Africa
17:24discuss the matter of that region
17:26and the ceasefire between Pakistan
17:28and India,
17:30then we believe that
17:32the priority of Washington's agenda
17:34is still on issues.
17:36Let's show you the different times
17:38when Trump is taking the credit
17:40of the ceasefire
17:42between Pakistan and India
17:44again and again.
17:52If Pakistan stopped the nuclear conflict,
17:54I think it would have had nuclear war.
17:56My administration successfully brokered
17:58a historic ceasefire between
18:00India and Pakistan.
18:02I don't want to say I did, but I sure as hell
18:04helped settle the problem between
18:06Pakistan and India last week.
18:08A bigger success than I'll ever
18:10be given credit for.
18:12Those are major nuclear powers.
18:14Those are not, like, a little bit.
18:16And they were angry. Stop that war.
18:18That was going to be a nuclear war, I think.
18:20Take a look at what we just did
18:22with Pakistan and India.
18:24We settled that whole thing,
18:26and I think I settled it through trade.
18:51The ceasefire, the cessation
18:53of firing and military action
18:55was something which was negotiated
18:57directly between India and Pakistan.
18:59Their general has to call up
19:01our general and say this.
19:03And that is what happened.
19:20America's involvement and assistance
19:22made a difference in that stopping
19:24and a ceasefire that has continued.
19:26The world noticed, again,
19:28that that has not been resolved
19:30by the United States,
19:32but by the United States.
19:34And I think that's a good thing.
19:36I think that's a good thing.
19:38I think that's a good thing.
19:40I think that's a good thing.
19:42I think that's a good thing.
19:44I think that's a good thing.
19:46I think that's a good thing.
19:48And I think that
19:50that has not been resolved,
19:52and potential of having
19:54these long-term
19:56problems resolved has returned,
19:58and it is an opportunity,
20:00and the good news is that
20:02unlike some other regions,
20:04and the good news is that
20:06unlike some other regions,
20:08there has been a commitment
20:10to a ceasefire.
20:12Some time ago PCPT has posted
20:14an interesting tweet
20:16He was saying that his IT, tech and production will be a major foot in the door in the world.
20:23That deal seems to be affected by President Trump's tweet that 25% tariff will be imposed on Apple
20:33if it doesn't make its products in America and in India.
20:36If we say that the Indian stars are not good in the last two weeks, then it won't be wrong.
20:41We will talk about what is happening in Washington.
20:43We have with us Mr. Rizwan Syed Sheikh, Pakistan's Ambassador to the United States.
20:46Thank you very much, Mr. Rizwan.
20:47First of all, I would like to start with my first question.
20:50Mr. Trump has spoken publicly on four different occasions.
20:54Apart from this, he has also spoken to various journalists on his tour.
20:59More or less, he has said eight times that we have taken credit for the Pakistan-India ceasefire.
21:05He is very happy.
21:06Where do you see this in Washington's agenda priority?
21:12When you meet with the administration and the people in the power corridor?
21:18Thank you, Maria, for taking me on your program.
21:22As you said, President Trump himself has said this at least seven or eight times.
21:30It is very clear that the announcement of the ceasefire was also made by him through his own tweet.
21:36In this, India says that America has no role in this.
21:41Both countries have been in direct contact with each other.
21:46Of course, direct contact is after a special occasion when America proposed this.
21:52After that, the military details had to be decided through direct contact.
22:01But keep in mind that this contact was interrupted for a long time between the Director General of the military operations of both countries.
22:12This was first resolved through the efforts of the United States.
22:16And then the details were decided through it.
22:19And because America had a prominent role in this,
22:23the announcement of the ceasefire was made by President Trump himself at approximately 7.30 a.m. on the morning of May 10, according to Washington's time.
22:35And even after that, you can see a continuous attitude of courage.
22:42President Trump is a savior of peace.
22:45He is trying to make his legacy as a President of the United States such that wherever there were disputes in the world,
22:53wherever there was a tense situation, he played an important role in ending it, reducing it, and completely getting rid of it.
23:05That is why the Kashmir issue is in front of him.
23:08Because the largest population in the world, if it is affected by a dispute,
23:17then it is the Kashmir issue.
23:20The population of 1.6 billion is only between two countries.
23:24It is more than that.
23:25But if you include the wider region,
23:30if you include the people of both countries who live in the Gulf countries,
23:35then I think more than a quarter of the world's population will be affected by this ceasefire,
23:42and the delay in the solution of the Kashmir issue.
23:50We are in favor of American leadership in this regard.
23:54We are grateful.
23:55And we hope that this effort will be continued and the matter will be completed.
24:03Through such a ceasefire, not only the two countries, but the entire region,
24:09and the whole world will be saved from the dangers of such a war,
24:14in which there is nuclear capability on both sides and there are so many chances of destruction.
24:19And if it is acceptable for the Kashmiris too, then there will be a win-win situation for all stakeholders.
24:23But Ambassador, the situation is that you said that President Trump wants to leave his legacy.
24:31When we were sitting with Pakistan after the election and before the election,
24:34when we were observing this whole matter,
24:37then his administration has a lot of evidence of being pro-India.
24:43But we do not see a connection with President Trump's statements at the policy level.
24:49His statement, the sentiments of his administration, there is a disconnect in this.
24:55What is the reason for this?
24:57Look, there is a need to understand this.
25:00India is the power of a peaceful world.
25:03Its role has been and still is, today, tomorrow and in the future.
25:09It is an inappropriate responsibility of India.
25:13As a big country, it is a region, and more than that,
25:17on its basis, for global peace, it should continuously not only examine it,
25:23but also play a full, active role for it.
25:27So, it is necessary to look at it in that context.
25:30The relations between the US and India, or the relations with any other country in the US,
25:35are in place, and every independent country has the right
25:40to use the conditions, the conditions, the basis on which it wants to establish relations with any other country.
25:46It is in place.
25:48So, that is absolutely right and justified.
25:52But the responsibility of the US,
25:55as a big country, as a global power,
25:58as a country that has been around for eight decades,
26:05has a long history of relations with both the countries,
26:09and they have played a role in a tense situation before.
26:12It should be looked at in this context.
26:14And then, President Trump's desire and intention to leave his legacy,
26:22in that context, these possibilities are not only more clear,
26:26but it is also easier to understand the whole situation.
26:29But a big question that is raised in relation to relations between Pakistan and India,
26:33the elephant in the room, is that India has still announced to abolish the Indus water treaty.
26:42How is this being seen in Washington, especially in the embassies?
26:46Because if you deprive 25 crore people of water in a country,
26:50then it is an act of war.
26:52So, what is the benefit of this?
26:55Look, I think it is necessary to understand that,
26:58first of all, any agreement between two countries,
27:01or on an international level,
27:03whatever is possible under that agreement,
27:06can only be according to the terms of that agreement.
27:09So, there is no such agreement in the Indus water treaty,
27:13with which any of the two countries can unilaterally abolish it or terminate it.
27:23So, the international community understands these legal requirements.
27:29And then there is the role of the World Bank,
27:32in terms of this arrangement and peace,
27:36which is related to this agreement.
27:38There is a history of taking this matter there as well.
27:43Any disagreements in this regard, or disagreements of opinion,
27:46are also present there.
27:48All these possibilities are present.
27:50But first, it is necessary to understand what India wants.
27:54I think it is not possible to stop water naturally,
27:59because there is a flow of water and it cannot be stopped.
28:02And especially in such a situation,
28:05when a monsoon season is coming in both the countries,
28:09if there is more water, it has to be stopped anyway.
28:13And in this regard, India has been demonstrating illegality in recent years.
28:18In the spirit of the agreement,
28:21it is necessary to inform Pakistan while stopping water.
28:24But if you look at the past few years,
28:27if it was necessary to inform ten times,
28:29they have hardly informed three to four times.
28:33This is an attitude of lack of security.
28:35This is an attitude of illegality,
28:37in which the Indian leadership has been saying
28:40that it will not give a single drop of water to Pakistan.
28:43Just one last question, Mr. Rizwan.
28:44Two delegations are coming from India,
28:47and their lawmakers are also coming from Pakistan.
28:49Lobbying will also be very strong in Washington.
28:52Diplomacy will also be there.
28:54How effective are these delegations in Rai,
28:58on the hill or in the power corridor?
29:03All the delegations here,
29:07whether they are hill or executive,
29:10it is important that their point of view is fully explained.
29:16In the current situation of the area,
29:20which the Indian leadership is giving more air with its continuous statements,
29:26it should be informed of the dangers in it.
29:31Pakistan is a peaceful country,
29:34but we want peace.
29:36There is a history of both countries.
29:38If you look at it clearly,
29:40there is a map in the Indian parliament,
29:43which is the document of India,
29:45in which Pakistan is included.
29:47There cannot be more clear evidence of ill intent and intentions.
29:52It is necessary to draw attention to these things.
29:55The role of India in Balochistan is also a separate announcement.
29:58Evidence of that is present.
30:00Just yesterday, there was a very sad incident,
30:03in which children lost their lives.
30:05So it is necessary to repeat this whole history,
30:08explain it and make it aware of its implications.
30:11Thank you very much.
30:12Thank you very much, Mr. Rizwan Saeed Shaikh,
30:14Pakistan's Ambassador to the United States.
30:16We will go to the break and come back.
30:18Noor got justice.
30:20Pakistan's Ambassador to the United States
30:24Welcome back.
30:25Noor Mukaddam's case, Kufr Tuta Khuda Khuda,
30:27which created a stir in the society and the country four years ago,
30:33and all the girls, families and parents of this country were worried.
30:38Overall, the society was very concerned.
30:40Now, the final decision has come to us.
30:44These appeals went to the Supreme Court.
30:46The accused, in fact, the criminal, Zahir Jaffer,
30:49and thanks to God, the family of Noor Mukaddam got relief.
30:53The verdict from the Supreme Court this week,
30:56what does it say?
30:57On 20th May, in the case of Noor Mukaddam,
31:00under the leadership of Justice Hashim Kakkar,
31:02three benches of the Supreme Court
31:04gave verdicts against the central criminal, Zahir Jaffer.
31:07Justice Hashim Kakkar has stated in a brief decision
31:11that the death penalty has been imposed on Zahir Jaffer in the case of murder,
31:15whereas in the case of rape, the death penalty has been changed to life imprisonment.
31:18In the case of rape, ten years of imprisonment has been reduced to one year,
31:22whereas the court has also ordered compensation to the family of Noor Mukaddam.
31:27The court has stated in its decision
31:30that Zahir Jaffer's creditor, Jaan Mohammad,
31:32and the watchman, Iftikhar, have suffered enough punishment.
31:36The accused will be released after the court's written decision.
31:41It took four years to get justice for Noor.
31:45Let's take a quick look at the timeline of this case.
31:48The 27-year-old Noor Mukaddam was found dead in Islamabad
31:52at the residence of the accused, Zahir Jaffer.
31:55This is the date of 20th July, 2021, when he was murdered.
31:59On 21st July, 2021, the central criminal is also arrested
32:03and after that, he is given a three-day physical remand.
32:07On 26th July, 2021, he is acquitted of the crime.
32:12On 26th July, 2021, he is acquitted of the crime
32:15and Zahir Jaffer admits that he has murdered Noor.
32:19Then, fast forward to 20th October, 2021, the trial begins.
32:24In Islamabad's Session Court, the trial of the Noor Mukaddam murder case began.
32:29On 22nd February, 2022, the verdict was secured
32:32and the final arguments were given.
32:34On 24th February, 2022, the verdict was given
32:37and we saw in it that Zahir Jaffer was sentenced to death
32:40and the accomplices, Mali, Jaan, Mohammad and Iftikhar,
32:43were sentenced to 10 years in prison.
32:45However, the court acquitted Tahir Zahoor,
32:48the owner of Therapy Works, and the parents of the central criminal.
32:52On 14th September, 2022, when this case is challenged in Islamabad High Court,
32:56its hearing begins.
32:58Chief Justice Amir Farooq concludes this case.
33:02On 21st December, 2022, the verdict of the Noor Mukaddam murder case
33:06is secured and the case is heard on 13th March, 2023.
33:11This means that the decision of Islamabad High Court
33:14is consistent with the decision of the Session Court.
33:17Remember, this murder has been committed for two years.
33:20Till then, we are seeing from the High Court that the verdict is consistent.
33:23The central criminal challenges this verdict
33:26and this verdict is challenged on 12th April, 2023
33:29and the case goes to the Supreme Court of Pakistan.
33:33Note this date, April 23rd, 2023.
33:36Because after that, when this case is heard again,
33:40two years have passed.
33:43On 11th May, 2025, the Noor Mukaddam murder case
33:46is heard in the Supreme Court in front of three Rukni Benches.
33:50On 20th May, the verdict is heard again
33:53and the three Rukni Benches of the Supreme Court
33:56have passed the verdict of Islamabad High Court.
33:58This case took two years to be heard in front of the Supreme Court.
34:02For any victim's family, this is a painful matter.
34:06It is a mental, financial and psychological torture
34:09which they have to go through.
34:11Courts have to do better in this country.
34:13They should do better.
34:15They should facilitate such parents,
34:17especially those who have rape, violence or murder cases
34:21against their daughters, or cases of domestic abuse.
34:24Let's take a quick look at the case of Noor Mukaddam.
34:28His father was a steadfast man.
34:31The society was behind him.
34:34Despite many obstacles, he delivered the case.
34:38Zahir Jaffer's family was very influential.
34:41Despite that, we saw that he was punished
34:44by all of them by struggling.
34:46But not everyone is so lucky.
34:48Not everyone has the resources.
34:50Not everyone has access to the media.
34:53I have the report of SSDO in front of me.
34:55I have disturbing statistics of the cases in Pakistan.
34:59The total number of cases according to the SSDO report of rape
35:03is 32,617.
35:06There are 5,000 cases of rape, 2,000 cases of domestic abuse
35:09and 645 cases of murder in the name of honour.
35:12In Punjab, there are 4,000 cases of rape, 2,025 cases of murder.
35:17You have statistics of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Sindh, Balochistan.
35:22These are the reported cases.
35:24But what is the punishment?
35:27This is the disturbing part.
35:29Punishment in rape cases is 0.5%.
35:32We are quoting the report of SSDO in 2024.
35:35If anyone wants to challenge this, please come forward and let us know.
35:38Murder in the name of honour.
35:40I don't believe in honour.
35:42Murder is a premeditated thing.
35:44It is 0.5%.
35:451.3% on domestic violence.
35:49The situation is such that punishment is given.
35:52The Noor Muqaddam case reached its conclusion.
35:55Everyone breathed a sigh of relief.
35:57But the fight is still going on.
35:59The case is not over yet.
36:01There are many other high profile cases that were in the media's eyes.
36:05But many Noor Muqaddam cases are in the hands of Pakistan.
36:08They are still looking for justice.
36:10Courts will have to play their part.
36:12Mr. Shaukat Muqaddam is with us.
36:14He is the father of Noor Muqaddam.
36:16Mr. Shaukat, you did not lose hope for 4 years.
36:20You kept going to the courts.
36:22Although the case did not take place for 2 years.
36:24I am sure it will be very frustrating.
36:26It is very difficult to get justice in this country.
36:29But you got partial justice.
36:31I am saying partial because your child cannot come back.
36:34It is only partial justice.
36:36So tell me, this is a testing process.
36:40Many parents must be watching you.
36:42I would like you to guide the parents who are going through this process.
36:53Peace be upon you.
36:55You are right.
36:58It is a very difficult process.
37:00It is a long process.
37:02It involves going to the courts.
37:04It took me 4 years from the session court to the High Court and the Supreme Court.
37:10Initially, the district court was in a very bad condition.
37:17There was no place to stand or sit.
37:20But Mr. Attara Bani, the Additional Session Judge,
37:25helped me a lot.
37:28He scientifically proved that this criminal has committed a murder.
37:34It took 7 months for the witnesses to be called.
37:41The CCTV camera worked scientifically on the forensic evidence.
37:46A fair trial was given.
37:48The death sentence was announced in the district court.
37:54The death sentence was given in two counts.
38:01The death sentence was given on 13th March, 2023.
38:05The Supreme Court appealed.
38:07Thank God, the Supreme Court also announced the death sentence.
38:13The High Court gave the death sentence twice.
38:16The Supreme Court announced it once.
38:18We thought the death sentence was given twice.
38:21We will accept the decision of the Supreme Court.
38:27But as you said, there are many cases pending.
38:32There are many thousands of cases pending.
38:35You said, what is my message?
38:38All the mothers and daughters who are worried,
38:41be patient and continue.
38:45This is not a small incident.
38:48This is a big incident that has been made known to the entire Pakistani world.
38:55I want to highlight one more thing.
38:58I was out of the country and the war broke out.
39:01I could not come back.
39:02All the flights were cancelled.
39:04I was in the court.
39:07Some lawyers tried to assassinate my daughter.
39:15I do not agree with this.
39:17This is wrong.
39:19My daughter was very pious.
39:21When I was in Korea, she converted a Korean into a Muslim.
39:26She gave a Hindu girl the Quran.
39:28She read the Quran and asked for another copy.
39:32On her birthday, she used to go to the orphanage with her friends.
39:37She used to give them gifts from her pocket money.
39:41She remembered Surah Al-Mulk.
39:43I read it every night.
39:45I do not remember.
39:46My mother was told to read the first ten verses of Surah Al-Kahf.
39:51She was told to stay away from the Dajjal.
39:55She was a characterless girl.
39:57People tried to assassinate her.
40:00They tried to defame her.
40:02I am telling you that this is not true.
40:05She went to the orphanage.
40:07Her children were in Islamabad.
40:09Everyone knew her.
40:10People trapped her.
40:14Her ticket to America was booked.
40:16It was approved.
40:18Everyone knew her.
40:22Mr. Shaukat, it is important to mention that this was not a moral crime.
40:30This was a violent crime.
40:32It was about a characterless girl.
40:34It does not make any sense.
40:36Mr. Shaukat, I want to know.
40:38This is very important.
40:40If this was true, she would have tried to run away twice.
40:47She would have tried to save her life twice.
40:49If this was true, why would she run away?
40:53This is very simple.
40:55It is easy to understand.
40:57Her lawyer tried to defame her.
41:02He tried to assassinate her.
41:04The whole world knows that if she was a characterless girl,
41:08why would she run away?
41:10Thank you very much, Mr. Shaukat.
41:12Mr. Shaukat was still testifying about his daughter's character.
41:17It is very painful that in our society,
41:20we consider our honor more important than our daughter's life.
41:28This decision was made, but there are some remarks of the Supreme Court
41:31which were very troubling.
41:36Justice Hashim Kakar gave a verdict, but also gave some remarks.
41:39He said that it is a fact that the accused and the accused were living together.
41:43He commented on the nature of the relationship and said that
41:46such arrangements can be common in Europe between unmarried men and women,
41:50but not here.
41:51There is a moral and religious failure in our society.
41:53During the hearing, Justice Hashim Kakar gave remarks that if Noor Mukaddi...
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