Journalist Aaron Maté delves into the complexities of the ongoing US-Iran nuclear negotiations, questioning their direction and potential outcomes. With tensions escalating due to Iran's uranium enrichment and the US's "maximum pressure" campaign, Maté examines whether diplomatic efforts can overcome deep-rooted mistrust and conflicting demands. As both nations approach the fifth round of talks in Rome, the path to a lasting agreement remains uncertain
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#USIranTalks #NuclearNegotiations #AaronMaté #Diplomacy #MiddleEastTensions #IranNuclearProgram #USForeignPolicy #InternationalRelations #RomeTalks #MaximumPressure #UraniumEnrichment #DiplomaticEfforts #GlobalSecurity #PeaceProcess #IranSanctions #NuclearDeal #Geopolitics #MiddleEastPeace #ForeignPolicyAnalysis #ConflictResolution
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02:55Ukraine. That was the basis for, it was inappropriate, but it was still the basis
03:01for the impeachment. You know, I'm a little bit more generous to him on this question than you
03:05are, Judge. Yes, he was largely responsible for, yes, he carries responsibility for this war.
03:11On his first term, as you said, he carried out policies that prolonged this war. He did nothing
03:16to support the Minsk Accords. He tore up the INF Treaty, which was a major source of tension
03:23between Russia and the US. It helped plunge arms control to historic lows. The INF Treaty had
03:29limited, you know, and reduced the weapons stockpiles that the US and Russia can use to
03:35threaten each other. And Trump withdrew from that at the behest of John Bolton. That's one of the
03:39issues that Russia wanted to address in its draft treaty that it submitted to the US and NATO before
03:44it invaded Ukraine in February 2022. But on the other hand, after Russia invaded, it was the Joe
03:49Biden administration that sabotaged the peace talks that Russia and Ukraine entered into,
03:55reaching the outline of a peace deal in Istanbul in April 2022. It was Joe Biden that prolonged the
04:02war. It was Joe Biden who made the decision that he wanted to use Ukraine to bleed Russia. So in terms
04:08of that part of the war, that is not Trump's war. And I do see Trump now doing what Joe Biden refused to
04:15do, which is talk to Russia and talk about ending this war. And so I do give him credit there. It's
04:20better than what Joe Biden was doing. It's better than what Kamala Harris was offering as well.
04:24He seems to, in furtherance to your argument, he seems to have dropped the demand of ceasefire first
04:33negotiations later. A demand that we know is contrary to Russian history and contrary to the way the
04:41Russians do business. So perhaps he came to that conclusion, either from something Witkoff said to
04:47him or from his two hour conversation with President Putin, because he and Rubio seem to have dropped
04:54that, Secretary of State Rubio seem to have dropped that absurd demand.
05:00I think what happened there was, you know, Zelensky and Macron and Keir Starmer were so desperate for
05:05something, something that could make them look tough. They got together. They came up with this,
05:09you know, ultimatum that Russia, unless it agrees to a 30 day ceasefire, it's going to face new
05:16sanctions. And they kind of ambushed Trump and Trump probably without much thought said, yeah,
05:20sure. OK, why not? Like, let's do that. But then Trump talked to Putin and he realized from Putin
05:24that Putin doesn't care that Putin doesn't care about these ultimatums and Russia will continue
05:30to impose its demands on Ukraine, including Ukrainian neutrality by force. And so I think
05:36Trump made a comparison between what the U.S. and our allies are capable of in terms of can they
05:42stop Russia from achieving its goals and what Russia is determined to do. You know, as many guests
05:46have talked about with you over the past week in Istanbul, the Russians relayed the message that,
05:51listen, like we fought these wars before. We're prepared to make this go on for a very long time.
05:56So I think Russia took stock. I think Trump took stock of that and realized that the only way he
06:01could really enforce the ultimatums would be to double down on military support for Ukraine,
06:05which he doesn't want to do. But that's why he caved pretty quickly and basically abandoned the
06:12ultimatum that he had signed on to. Under Trump, we remain a co-belligerent. We're still
06:17we're still picking targets for them. We're still giving them military equipment and we're still
06:21giving them intel. Yeah, that's true. But that's going to run out eventually. The weaponry,
06:27the money for the weaponry will run out eventually. And what happens? I wish we knew how much money is
06:32left. I have a little smirk on my face because nobody knows because the Defense Department doesn't
06:37reveal these numbers, doesn't keep accurate numbers, hasn't passed an audit in eight years.
06:43Well, we know that Joe Biden, you know, every six months or so had to go back to Congress and ask
06:51for more money. And it's true that the last time, last time he got money was a bit over a year ago.
06:56That was $60 billion. It's a lot of money. At the same time, Ukraine's losing a lot of people.
07:01This, you know, they're blowing through a lot of ammunition very, very quickly.
07:04I think I would give it months. I would give it months.
07:07They must be concentrating on drones because they can't, they can't produce the manpower to
07:12win on the ground. No, they certainly can't. And that's why the images you continue to see in
07:19terms of how they're generating manpower is kidnapping people off the streets.
07:23But isn't it laughable that a co-belligerent could also be a mediator?
07:28How can we mediate between Ukraine and, uh, and, uh, Russia when we're funding Ukraine?
07:37Well, given that, uh, it's a U S weaponry and intelligence that sustains the war,
07:42the U S can use this leverage over Ukraine, uh, to bring the war to an end. And also simply
07:48if it walks away, then the war has to come to an end unless Ukraine and Europe can find another way
07:53to come up with the money and the weaponry, which I don't think they will. So, you know,
07:58the U S role in brokering the talks to me is it's, it's a material now because Trump even said he
08:03doesn't want to broker anymore. He said that, you know, he made a comment about how only the two
08:07sides, only they know all the details. They can work it out for themselves. What he's saying is
08:10we're not going to be involved. Do you think that, uh, Whitcoff is not going to be negotiating with
08:15president Putin anymore over this? He may be negotiating with him over other things, but over the war.
08:22Well, Whitcoff certainly has his hands full. Uh, he's handling the Iran portfolio. He's handling the
08:29Gaza Israel portfolio. So, uh, for the sake of maybe getting a deal, it'd be good if someone else
08:35took it over because how can he possibly achieve anything, all these different, uh, tracks if he's
08:40handling all of them at the same time. So I don't know, but certainly if I were Whitcoff, I would pick
08:45one lane and stick to it because it's just impossible to handle.
08:48You have, you have, uh, no doubt seen the piece written by our friend, uh, Max Blumenthal, uh,
08:56who as a result of his many interviews in Iran came to the conclusion that the Iranian negotiators,
09:03uh, characterized Whitcoff as uninformed and distracted, distracted by his other assignment,
09:10which is what we're talking about, Ukraine and Russia.
09:13Yeah. So Max Blumenthal at the gray zone, uh, was just in Iran and spoke to some diplomats there
09:20and paints a very sobering picture of the state of the talks. You know, the way, the way Trump and
09:25Whitcoff were speaking initially, it sounded like a deal was at hand and it sounds from the Iranians,
09:32uh, officials that, that Max spoke to that there was some optimism initially because there were signs
09:37of real openness from the Trump team that a deal could be reached. But then all of a sudden,
09:41Whitcoff started putting out demands that were indistinguishable from all the Israel lobby groups,
09:47um, all the, uh, you know, far right pundits who, you know, support the Israeli agenda. And that was
09:53no enrichment whatsoever, uh, which is for Iran as a non-starter because they assert the right to
09:59enrich uranium under the non-proliferation treaty. And they're very proud of their civilian program that
10:04they've developed over the years to be able to enrich. So Whitcoff immediately is endorsing, um,
10:10Israeli demands that for, uh, you know, and claiming this is a red line that no enrichment
10:15whatsoever. Uh, whereas for Iran, that's their own red line that they reserve the right to enrich as
10:20long as it's for peaceful purposes. And that was the premise of the Iran nuclear deal that Trump killed,
10:24uh, in his first term, which is that Iran had the right to enrich at a peaceful level within whatever
10:30the percentage was 3.6% or something. Now Trump is, and Whitcoff are, uh, are, uh, blowing that up.
10:36I haven't Trump and Whitcoff, I'll use the sports analogy, moved the goalposts. I mean, Whitcoff
10:44led the Iranians to believe that that 3.2 number you're talking about, a sufficient amount of uranium
10:52enrichment for civilian energy and medical, uh, purposes was an offer that Whitcoff made,
11:00which delighted the Iranians and caused Whitcoff to say before the other Zionists got to him,
11:07uh, we're close to a deal. Now with the no enrichment, there is no conceivable way the
11:13Iranians could agree with that. Don't you agree? Yeah. Uh, that's the red line as they've laid out.
11:19And in fact, Whitcoff publicly said that it's a, that we'd be okay with them having some
11:23enrichment. He said that on Fox news and that immediately triggered a meltdown from the usual
11:27neocon, uh, pundit class. And the next day Whitcoff relented. It just shows how, whenever the Israel
11:34lobby, the pro-war lobby has a little bit of a freak out. And we see this in the Ukraine war too,
11:41especially when it comes to progressive Democrats advocating for diplomacy, everyone just falls in line.
11:45No one seems willing to defy them. And now for Iran too, they also have to watch what's happening
11:50between Whitcoff and Hamas negotiators over the Gaza genocide, because it's come out recently,
11:59uh, drop side news reported that Hamas claims that Whitcoff told them that if they released the
12:05Israeli American soldier aid on Alexander, the Whitcoff told them that, you know, Trump will call for an
12:10end to the blockade and for, and to push Israel into immediate ceasefire negotiations. Well,
12:14Whitcoff didn't do that. Adon Alexander was freed by Hamas, um, without getting anything, you know,
12:21in writing from Whitcoff and has Whitcoff done anything about blocking, about, about ending the
12:28siege of Gaza? No. So Iran must be looking at this and saying that, you know, if the Hamas account is
12:33true, that Whitcoff and Trump played Hamas and Iran has to be therefore all the more wary about making a
12:40deal with them. And Netanyahu was esteemed, even furious at Aidan Alexander's release because the
12:49Israelis weren't involved. Well, now I have to wonder, judge, if that was just for show. It's true
12:55that Netanyahu intervened to block the first effort to release Aidan Alexander back in March, where
13:01Adam Bowler, the U.S. hostage envoy, was speaking to Hamas and he reported great progress. He reported
13:07that, you know, not only can we get a deal to free Aidan Alexander, but Hamas is talking about a
13:11long-term truce and we're talking about getting to the roots of the conflict. And then he said,
13:15in response to criticism from Israel, listen, we're not an agent of Israel. Well, that got him
13:19shut up for a while. He was basically taken off the airwaves and, and put a sort of put on the
13:25back burner. Now, finally, you had another deal made this month and Aidan Alexander was released.
13:31And yes, Netanyahu apparently was upset. But now I wonder, given that Wyckoff and Trump delivered
13:36nothing to the people of Gaza as a result of Aidan Alexander getting free, I wonder if the talk
13:41about Netanyahu being upset about this recent round of negotiations between Hamas and the U.S. was
13:48actually a smokescreen, that he knew that Trump and Wyckoff would go back on their word to Hamas and
13:52therefore was fine with seeing Aidan Alexander free.
13:55Do you think that the reports in the Western press about the rift between Trump and Netanyahu is a
14:04deception or is accurate?
14:06I think it's a deception. I see no evidence of it whatsoever. Trump was recently asked by Fox News,
14:12you know, is there any, are you mad at Netanyahu? And Trump said, no, he's in a very tough position.
14:16And October 7th is one of the worst things in history. And so therefore he had to do something.
14:20So that was Trump endorsing what Netanyahu is currently doing, which is not only, you know,
14:26a mass murder campaign, massacres every single day. It's hard to keep track of all the hospitals
14:31now that are still being attacked. There's another hospital in Gaza attacked today as we're recording
14:37this. There were others last week, including the European hospital. And so, and Trump is
14:42giving us full support to that. And Trump is even doing what Joe Biden wouldn't do. There wasn't an 80
14:49day starvation siege of Gaza under Biden. There has been under Trump and a trickle of aid trucks
14:55have been allowed in and responses of international criticism, which Netanyahu says is required
15:00because he said that, you know, some Republican senators were saying that, look, we can't have
15:04images of mass starvation coming out of Gaza. Not we can't have mass starvation. He said,
15:08we can't have images of mass starvation because it interferes with our ability to support you
15:13to do the job. And what is the job? It's ethnic cleansing in Gaza. So Netanyahu at the behest of
15:19the U.S. and some complaints from some lawmakers, not really Trump even, is letting in a trickle of
15:25humanitarian aid just to reduce the images of mass starvation so he can continue the goal
15:29of destroying Gaza and ethnic cleansing it.
15:31So Tom Fletcher, who's the undersecretary general of the U.N. for humanitarian and relief
15:39assignments, told the Security Council that 14,000 Palestinian babies will die of starvation by the
15:50end of this week. Now, as you and I are speaking, it's Thursday afternoon here in the U.S. Ray McGovern
15:55reported this morning that since Fletcher made that comment, five, five, not 500, not 5,000,
16:03five trucks of aid were permitted into Gaza, three filled with food, two filled with shrouds.
16:12You can't make this up. Now, that is whatever word there is below trickle, it would be that.
16:22You've got two million people starving. What can three trucks do for them?
16:26There's a Palestinian analyst named Mohammed Shahada, and he said that basically what Israel
16:33has allowed in so far amounts to about less than 1% of what people need and about four
16:39rice crackers per person. That's basically the aid that Israel has allowed in amid a starvation
16:45crisis. In terms of the 14,000 number, it's my understanding that maybe Fletcher meant to
16:49say that 14,000 are at risk of starvation and not maybe within 48 hours.
16:55So he might've gotten that wrong. I'm not, there's some confusion around that, but whether
16:59it's 14,000 at risk of starvation within 48 hours or 14,000 risk of starvation over a
17:04longer period, it doesn't really matter. These policies, this starvation siege is putting
17:08thousands of babies at risk, but not even babies too. It's, it's, it's children, it's adults,
17:14it's everybody. And they're all, you know, it's 2 million civilians trapped in this death
17:17camp, being starved. And yes, Israel has been given full impunity by the Trump White House
17:23to carry it out.
17:25Here's a clip promoting the starvation of babies by this former member of the Knesset, a former
17:34member of Netanyahu's party. This is really a repellent. Here's the English translation.
17:40Every child in Gaza is the enemy. We are at war with the Gazan entity, the Gazan terror
17:47entity, which we ourselves established in Gaza, in Oslo, and in the disengagement. The disengagement
17:54that Prime Minister Netanyahu voted in favor of, that is the enemy now. Every such child
18:00to whom you are now giving milk in another 15 years will rape your daughters and slaughter
18:04your children. We need to conquer Gaza and settle it. And not a single Gazan child should
18:10remain there. Let's stop telling ourselves this deception, just to score points in this
18:15game between pro-BB and anti-BB. This isn't about left or right. It's about winning this
18:21war and it's about justice. When will we learn? When will we learn?
18:26Is this attitude, which obviously is shared by Smutrich, Gavir, and Netanyahu, shared by
18:36a significant proportion of the Israeli public?
18:39Yes. Yes. I believe the last poll I saw, the majority of Israelis don't support letting aid
18:48into Gaza. Certainly a very, very large number. And, you know, some people now are increasingly
18:54speaking out. An Israeli opposition leader recently said some words of condemnation, but this has
19:00been going on for more than a year and a half. And Israeli leaders from the start made clear
19:07what their intention was, denying aid, denying food, and ethnic cleansing. And the amount of
19:15Israelis that have risen up to, you know, oppose this, not on the issue of the hostages, but
19:20simply on the issue of mass murder of Palestinians is a very, very small percentage.
19:27That represents the real sickness in that society.
19:31Here's Netanyahu, just about an hour and a half ago. He's referring to, when he says they,
19:41he's referring to the events of October 7th, this is him. They beheaded men, they raped women,
19:49they burned babies alive. Free Palestine is just today's version of Heil Hitler. They don't
19:56want a Palestinian state. They want to destroy the Jewish state. I could never understand how
20:01this simple truth evades the leaders of France, Britain, Canada, and others. He's deluded himself.
20:09Yeah. Well, he's repeating the atrocity propaganda that he's put out there along with all Israeli
20:16apologists to wage their atrocities, which unlike the atrocities he claims happened on October 7th
20:23are real. So for example, he says, you know, Palestinian militants burned babies on October
20:287th. No, they didn't. There was a baby killed on October 7th, but it wasn't from being burned.
20:35Whereas Netanyahu is burning babies alive inside Gaza and beheading them with U.S. bombs. The
20:42allegation of rape, you know, we've talked about this before. There's no out, there's no evidence
20:46still yet to this day for, for even a single case of rape on October 7th. Doesn't mean it didn't
20:52happen. I mean, I'm not God, so I can't see everything, but in terms of the available evidence,
20:55there is none. The only, it only comes from discredited witnesses whose stories don't add up or have
21:01been debunked. And meanwhile, no forensic or physical evidence. And the purpose of this
21:06atrocity propaganda from Netanyahu is to continue justifying all the atrocities occurring every day
21:12before our eyes, attacking hospitals, attacking people in their tents, in what's left of their
21:19homes and committing, you know, hundreds of killings every single day. It's impossible to keep track
21:25of all of them. And by the way, on this issue of, you know, Hamas trying to wipe out Israel,
21:30as I've talked about a lot, Hamas is more accommodating on the issue of the two-state
21:35solution than Israel is. Hamas accepted a Palestinian state in just 22% of their stolen homeland,
21:41the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem. Hamas accepted that. Israel's never accepted a Palestinian
21:45state within those borders because Israel wants the right to steal as much Palestinian land as it wants.
21:50And that's not just Netanyahu, that's even labor governments that were, you know, supposedly
21:55generous in their peace offers to Palestinians. So the problem here is an Israeli society, Israeli
22:01across the spectrum, that doesn't accept the fundamental rights of Palestinians to self-determination
22:06in their own homeland, in the homeland that Israel stole from them. And that's the fundamental
22:10problem with this conflict, which Netanyahu wants to now deepen by entering a new phase of ethnic
22:16cleansing. So I'm making Gaza permanently unlivable for everybody there and expelling as many people
22:21as he can. Aaron, thank you very much. I know it's late in the day where you are, and I deeply
22:27appreciate the time you've given us. I hope we can get together when you're back in New York,
22:32and I hope you'll join us again next week. Thank you, my dear friend. Thank you, Judge.
22:36Of course. Coming up at 3 o'clock this afternoon, Professor John Mearsheimer, and at 4 o'clock,
22:43Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom.